On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 04:50, Greg Beaverg...@chiaraquartet.net wrote:
The disadvantages are obvious: everyone has to have an account and give
their email address to report a bug. The advantages are also obvious:
I *hate* when I am required to signup and do all sorts of weird
validation crap
All,
I think that we should revisit the options on the table. I have a
feeling that much like many people didn't realize they're voting to
bring this into 5.3 - many weren't fully aware of the options on the
table and their implications (to be clear - I'm sure some were, but I
think many
Hi Zeev,
I've been keeping a very close eye, and have taken part in a good few
discussions, including putting my own idea on the table.
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Zeev Suraskiz...@zend.com wrote:
The options as I see them:
1. Do nothing. I think the vote established that this is not
On 09.07.2009, at 02:28, troels knak-nielsen wrote:
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Markmark...@gmail.com wrote:
I personally would be highly in favor of adding type hinting/casting
BUT with the benifit that php actually becomes faster if you do
things
like that. Afterall you can use way
At 11:39 09/07/2009, Paul Biggar wrote:
I believe nearly all opinions voiced have wanted the current patch.
Many more were in favour of strict typing only, but for the few
dissenters, like myself, Ilia included casting semantics using (int)
syntax.
I think that many of the people who expressed
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Zeev Suraskiz...@zend.com wrote:
I believe that
if we had a 'clean' Weak typing RFC as well as a Strict typing RFC, each
with its pros and cons - there would be very different results.
The two approaches were never compared head-to-head, with the pros and cons
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Zeev Suraski [mailto:z...@zend.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 9 juli 2009 11:46
Aan: Paul Biggar
CC: internals@lists.php.net
Onderwerp: Re: [PHP-DEV] Type hinting - Request for Discussion
At 11:39 09/07/2009, Paul Biggar wrote:
I believe nearly all
On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 08:31:49PM +0200, Jordi Boggiano wrote:
Since the votes seem to switch to 6.0 instead of 5.3, would it be
feasible to throw an E_DEPRECATED in 5.3.1 if one declares a
function/class called int/bool/object/whatever ?
+1
We *must* think about the transition.
Just
Hi Dennis,
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dennis Haarbrinkden...@born05.nl wrote:
The most important thing is that it is _optional_, you have the _choice_ to
use it.
Sorry to go a little bit off-topic, but this idea has been bandied
around a lot over the last week, and I'd like to respond to
2009/7/9 Zeev Suraski z...@zend.com:
Two other issues that we need to revisit:
1. Agree on when it will be implemented - I think it's pretty clear it
should not go to 5.3.
What would be the impact including this feature (once it is
*technically* fine for everybody) in 5.3 code with #ifdef's
On 09.07.2009, at 13:10, Patrick ALLAERT wrote:
2009/7/9 Zeev Suraski z...@zend.com:
Two other issues that we need to revisit:
1. Agree on when it will be implemented - I think it's pretty
clear it
should not go to 5.3.
What would be the impact including this feature (once it is
On 09.07.2009, at 12:49, Dennis Haarbrink wrote:
I'm a framework developer and I have great interest in type hinting/
casting.
I'm all for clarity and strictness, but it should definitely be a
choice.
PHP is known for its easy learning curve, that is one of its big
powers and
that should
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Dennis Haarbrinkden...@born05.nl wrote:
I mean, libraries may have all kinds of quirks, you may not be satisfied with
the supplied API or maybe even the entire philosophy behind it, but that
shouldn't stop you from using it or is it?
You must learn what these
Hi Paul,
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Paul Biggar [mailto:paul.big...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 9 juli 2009 13:03
Aan: Dennis Haarbrink
CC: internals@lists.php.net
Onderwerp: Re: [PHP-DEV] Type hinting - Request for Discussion
Although the proposed checks are optional,
Zeev Suraski wrote:
We need to go back to the fundamentals - and look for use cases where
strict typing would be substantially superior to weak typing.
I whole-heartedly agree. I can see some benefits of having weak typing
(even though I'm not desperate for it) and think it would better fit PHP
Lukas,
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Lukas Kahwe Smith [mailto:m...@pooteeweet.org]
Verzonden: donderdag 9 juli 2009 14:01
Aan: Dennis Haarbrink
CC: internals@lists.php.net
Onderwerp: Re: [PHP-DEV] Type hinting - Request for Discussion
I think you misunderstood Zeev. He
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Paul Biggar [mailto:paul.big...@gmail.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 9 juli 2009 14:40
Aan: Dennis Haarbrink
CC: internals@lists.php.net
Onderwerp: Re: [PHP-DEV] Type hinting - Request for Discussion
You must learn what these quirks are. Likewise, every
Hannes Magnusson wrote:
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 04:50, Greg Beaverg...@chiaraquartet.net wrote:
The disadvantages are obvious: everyone has to have an account and give
their email address to report a bug. The advantages are also obvious:
I *hate* when I am required to signup and do
Hi,
It is important to realize that the sole question here is what kind of
type hinting to implement. Any technical problems can be resolved with
some trade-offs.
There are a couple of approaches that come to mind.
1) make all type hints slightly slower (double lexing, once as T_STRING,
and
I would like to keep writing tests for PHP as I have started in the PHP Test
Fest.
During this event i lead my UG to write 144 tests (PHPSP) and I myself wrote 51
tests, for the below functions:
Rafael Dohms : 51 (9 basic, 41 error, 1 variation)
imagechar: 8
imagecharup: 8
On 09.07.2009, at 10:39, Paul Biggar wrote:
I think we can take Lukas's RFC and either change it or write
something
based on it for weak typing only. If people here find it useful
I'll go
ahead and do that.
I believe people don't want this. I wrote a set of rules, Lukas wrote
the RFC,
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Lukas Kahwe Smithm...@pooteeweet.org wrote:
Actually, in terms of weak typing we are now at 4 supporters of the general
idea:
Paul B.,
Better make that 3 supporters. After seeing how complicated it was to
explain the semantics of a sensible middle, I think the
I want to remind everyone that this discussion is inadvertently sabotaging
the work/schedule of maintenance 5.3.x point releases, which we actually
need, for the 5.3 branch get to a point where it's stable enough to be used
in production.
So, knowing this can go on forever, it's time to pick
Aloha,
FYI: Since 5.3.0 is out and we are now in maintenance mode for this
branch, there is not really a need for a release manager in the strict
meaning of the title. In other words we can now go back to the
traditional model of having a single RM that is mostly busy with
technical
Hi list.
In advance, sorry for muddying the waters even further.
Following the current discussion about typehints to primitives, I'm
wondering if anyone have ever suggested to include some sort of
user-land contract system, such as the one that exists in
plt-scheme[1]
Given the dynamic nature
Hi!
2) use cast syntax
function (int $integerObject) {}
function ((int) $actualInteger) {}
The tradeoff here is an intellectual one: (int) means something
different in a method signature than what it means in regular PHP code.
Actually, it means pretty much the same - conversion to int
Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
Hi!
2) use cast syntax
function (int $integerObject) {}
function ((int) $actualInteger) {}
The tradeoff here is an intellectual one: (int) means something
different in a method signature than what it means in regular PHP code.
Actually, it means pretty much the
Hi!
You assume that cast type hinting will be the implementation chosen. If
the type hinting is in fact validation the way object type hinting is
(strict type hinting), no conversion takes place, and the meaning is
different. I should have said if strict type hinting is implemented
in the
Hi!
Actually, in terms of weak typing we are now at 4 supporters of the
general idea:
Count me in, then :)
--
Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect
s...@zend.com http://www.zend.com/
(408)253-8829 MSN: s...@zend.com
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To
On 9 Jul 2009, at 18:20, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote:
On 09.07.2009, at 10:39, Paul Biggar wrote:
I think we can take Lukas's RFC and either change it or write
something
based on it for weak typing only. If people here find it useful
I'll go
ahead and do that.
I believe people don't want
Hi
I very much miss the ability to add my email address to the bugs that I
am interested in. This used to allow to me to track its progress. I
wasn't not sure, if that is what you meant within Subscriptions..
- sriram
Philip Olson wrote:
The bug system today works fine but improvements
Hi!
I am a userland developer, so please take my advice with caution. I am not
aware of the consequences of any of the implementations from an internals
point of view. However, since the main question here seems to be strict
against weak typing, or casting, I feel I should voice my opinion.
troels knak-nielsen wrote:
1) It covers all the use cases for a type-based system (You can use
`is_integer` as a contract, if you want that)
2) It's extensible in user-space, which means that it can be used to
convey much more accurate information, relevant to the application
needs.
3) It's
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:28 AM, Josh
Thompsonspam.goes.in.h...@gmail.com wrote:
troels knak-nielsen wrote:
- How do you know if it is a contract or the current object type hint?
The simplest solution would be to make one take precedence. You're not
likely to have both a class and a function
troels knak-nielsen wrote:
- How do you know if it is a contract or the current object type hint?
The simplest solution would be to make one take precedence. You're not
likely to have both a class and a function with the same name, and if
you do, you kind of had it coming to you. For
All:
I'm in favor of this so-called Weak typing Zeev has proposed as
well, but I would like to see it become available in PHP before PHP 6.
That doesn't mean it has to go into 5.3.x, but I don't see why there
can't be a 5.4 that includes it. Personally, I think primitive typing
has a much more
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