[kde] Re: KDialog sending auto-delete popups with passivepopup and timeout
On Friday, 2010-12-17, Aaron Lewis wrote: Hi, I'd like some of my popup messages send to notification area , being automatically deleted without any user responses and no message storing. seems kdialog --title Service Manager --passivepopup Bonjour Aaron et il fait beau 3 I've already unchecked Automatically hide option. Hmm. When I execute the command above I get a popup notification which disappears without any interaction after a couple of seconds ( I guess after 3 seconds). What did you mean with message storing? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Disabling plasma desktop background
On Thursday, 2011-01-20, Stephen Kell wrote: Hi, Can I turn off the plasma desktop background (i.e. the window that gets mapped over the root window) without killing plasma? I want to use plasma mainly for the applets like knetworkmanager, and don't want to lose access to my plain old X11 root window. I tried remove this desktop activity but in the case of the desktop background it appears to do nothing. This is in KDE 4.4.2 (Ubuntu Lucid) -- apologies if there are relevant changes in subsequent versions. Very good question. I think in Plasma terminology all areas which can hold widgets are called containments. I had a look into plasma-desktop-appletsrc and there seems to one for the desktop (has a line like plugin=desktop). You could try removing that containment from your config. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set the KDE path?
On Tuesday, 2011-02-01, Dotan Cohen wrote: It is rather frustrating that the Plasma Krunner (Alt-F2) does not follow the path configured in $HOME/.profile. If the user has a wrapper function for /usr/bin/firefox in $HOME/.bin/firefox and $HOME/.bin starts the path, Konsole will open the firefox wrapper but Krunner will open /usr/bin/firefox. The lead Plasma developer mentions that the user can configure the KDE path by placing an executable in ~/.xinitrc https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263883 However, it doesn't work. Googling the issue I see lots of people asking and the answer is usually to configure the path in .bash_profile or .profile. That does not work in KDE 4.x, I assume that it worked in 3.x by the age of those posts. That never worked because e.g. .bash_profile is only read by interactive shells (see man bash) and the shell running /usr/bin/startkde is not interactive. Some people might have had /bin/bash symlinked to /bin/sh and .bashrc sourcing .bash_profile but of course this is just working around the way that shell works. Usually distributions have some way of setting environment variables that should always be present regardless of the type of login (local vs. from remote, X vs. virtual console). Xinit is a way to do that only for X11 based sessions, but again regardless of workspace environment being used. For KDE one can additional use KDE's environment extender mechanims, i.e. putting a file (with .sh extension) into $HOME/.kde/env Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: How to set the KDE path?
On Tuesday, 2011-02-01, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 21:06, Kevin Krammer kevin.kram...@gmx.at wrote: On Tuesday, 2011-02-01, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 18:24, Kevin Krammer kevin.kram...@gmx.at wrote: That never worked because e.g. .bash_profile is only read by interactive shells (see man bash) and the shell running /usr/bin/startkde is not interactive. Of course, .bash_profile is for bash as the name implies. But what about .profile? Would it not make sense for KDE to respect that? KDE is started through a script called startkde. This is executed by a shell interpreter, whatever /bin/sh points to. This shell might not read .profile, bash for example only does this for interactive login shells. Nothing KDE can do about that. This is the whole point. What does KDE read to set the PATH? When a process is created, it gets the current environment of its parent process (well, the parent can pass a modified env if it chooses to). The process itself then reads the environment through system API, e.g. getenv() So if you run any program from within an interactive shell, it basically sees the environment of the shell at that point. If the shell's environment is altered afterwards, this will have no effect on the already running process. So the environment for KDE base processes is the one which they are started in. In case of a KDE workspace session, this is the environment which is present inside the startkde script. Which in turn is also running with the environment which was valid at its start. Now the script's code or the interpreter running the script can alter this environment and any process started after such a change sees the new one (remember any process started before a change sees the old one). The KDE environment extender mechanism uses that by having the startkde script source (include into itself) all files with extension .sh in any of its env directories. For instance, the path that the Krunner dialogue looks for apps? A combination of paths in $PATH and KDE specific non-interactive-binaries paths. See kde4-config --path exec And why isn't this configurable in System Settings? Maybe to avoid misunderstanding when such a change only effects KDE programs an no non-KDE programs. You could try a wish list item on bugs.kde.org for making the KDE specific search list configurable. For KDE one can additional use KDE's environment extender mechanims, i.e. putting a file (with .sh extension) into $HOME/.kde/env Do you know the syntax? It is not the bash syntax. Thanks. Somthing like this: export PATH=$HOME/.bin:$PATH Thanks, but that has no effect in, for instance $HOME/.kde/env/path.sh which has been chmodded +x and the system restart. That should have worked. I've used that myself several times. The files in there are just read, so executable shouldn't be necessary either. Check that your setup is actually using $HOME/.kde/ some distributions patched KDE to make it something different. See kde4-config --localprefix Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Manipulating local maildir
On Friday, 2011-02-11, Alex Schuster wrote: Hi there! I moved a large mail folder from my IMAP server to my local folders with Kmail. Then I found out that I have most mails three times. It's no big deal, but I wonder how to find and remove those duplicates. Didn't an older Kmail version have such a feature? There are some scripts that will do this. But here's my question: Would it be safe to change things in .kde4/share/apps/kmail/mail/? Or could I mess up some Kmail / Akonadi databases by doing so? Will hell break loose? Don't manipulate files in KMail's data directories when KMail is running. If KMail is not running, modifications to mail files should make the respective KMail index invalid (it will then have an older modification timestamp than one of the maildir directories). Or you remove the KMail index file for the mail folder that you have manipulated with an external tool Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: porting KInetD
On Wednesday, 2011-02-16, Martin Bednar wrote: Hi, I'm trying to port kinetd to KDE4, I have it in a state where it runs, listens and (for now) doesn't crash (well, it does, but so does KRFB). Where should I send my modifications? kde-devel? Bugzilla? I'd also welcome some insight on how to make it more kde4-ish (maybe add dbus signals?) The best way to submit changes are the reviewboards (depending on whether the code is in SVN or GIT either svn.reviewboard.kde.org or got.reviewboard.kde.org) Check if the author(s) of the touched files can be added as persons, check if the module the code belongs to has a reviewboard group. If neither applies, add review group kdelibs which will make the review request go to kde-core-devel Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: List moderation?
On Monday, 2011-03-07, gene heskett wrote: Is this list moderated? Yes, in the sense that there is one or more list moderators which decide on mails gotten held by the mailiinglist software, e.g. when someone who is not subscribed posts. However, in this case the sender will get an automated response from the mailinglist software that her or his message has been held for approval. I am a member of this list, at the from: address above. I am getting 5-20 msgs a day delivered to this email address. So, one more time, why do my posts disappear? I've seen several of your messages so either those are not the ones you are missing or they are lost somewhere between the mailinglist server and your end. You could check the archives on whether your messages have been recorded there: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kder=1w=2 Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Fwd: SOC
Hallo Victor, I recommend you resend this to the KDE GSOC mailinglist kde-...@kde.org Cheers, Kevin On Thursday, 2011-03-24, Виктор Булдаков wrote: Dear Mr/Mrs, my name is Victor Buldakov, I'm a student at Kostroma State Technological University, Russia. I would like to take part in Google Summer Of Code-2011 with a project on KDE project . I have an idea to use Symbian mobile phone camera as a webcam. This project includes two constituents: a phone-server(C++ or Python) and Linux-client (Qt, ???, V4L2, OpenCV). Linux-part will be universal, so in the future it will be easily supported on any android/iphone/maemo/etc phone. It could be useful to connect phone by USB or Bluetooth. I think that KDE desktop enviroment is very ergonomic and convinient, and I would like to make it more applicable that's why I would like to cooperate with you and to work on my project under the aegis of your company. I have worked with svn/git, Python, pyS60, C++. I think that all that experience and skills will be useful in the development of the project. Looking forward to hearing from you soon! Sincerely yours, Victor Buldakov ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html. -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: kde-open, raise window and switch to desktop
On Friday, 2011-04-01, Duncan wrote: NOW we're getting somewhere! Take a look at the xdg-utils package, which seems to be authored in part by kde's own Kevin Krammer, as it happens, active on the kde lists. So maybe he'll step in with some suggestions. xdg-open is basically just a wrapper around tools like kde-open, xfce-open, etc. so program not using GIO/KIO stacks can still invoke the user's preferred application for a given file or URL. So in most cases invocations will end up in either GIO or KIO libraries, which then in turn figure out MIME type or URI scheme, associated application and finally launching. I think xdg-mime can be used to query the preferred application, together with kstart this could be used to achieve what Daniel is looking for. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Keyboard shortcut for opening context menu?
Hi Jörg, On Tuesday, 2011-05-03, Jörg von Frantzius wrote: Hi, after looking through preferences and googling a while, I can't find any shortcut definable for opening the context menu, e.g. in Dolphin. So when I'm e.g. in Dolphin and have a file selected, how can I open the context menu via a short-cut? Most keyboards have a context menu key, on all my keyboards its the one left to the right CTRL key. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Keyboard shortcut for opening context menu?
On Tuesday, 2011-05-03, Duncan wrote: Jörg von Frantzius posted on Tue, 03 May 2011 22:43:36 +0200 as excerpted: divbr/divdivafter looking through preferences and googling a while, I can#39;t find any shortcut definable for opening the context menu, e.g. in Dolphin./divdivbr/divdivSo when I#39;m e.g. in Dolphin and have a file selected, how can I open the context menu via a short-cut?/div divbr/divdivHopefully I just didn#39;t see the obvious, or is this really missing in KDE?/divdivbr Please fix your client. It's spitting HTML, which is: I think the sender's client is fine, it sent the text in plain text and HTML, allowing the receiving client to display whatever the user prefers. If your's displayed HTML over plain text, you might want to check if you can change the preference for that. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Keyboard shortcut for opening context menu?
On Wednesday, 2011-05-04, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Wed, 04 May 2011 08:11:41 +0200 as excerpted: If your's displayed HTML over plain text, you might want to check if you can change the preference for that. FWIW it displays both... as plain text, because it doesn't parse HTML (nor would I want it to, for the previously enumerated reasons including security). Ah. Maybe it has a setting to just ignore the HTML alternative. In KMail I only see the plain text variant since that's my preference setting for such cases. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Various Kmail paths?
On Thursday, 2011-05-05, Martin Bednár wrote: Hi, All user's data is in the /home directory. To save a user's data, just backup /home/johndoe. 90% of the KDE configuration files are in the ~/.kde4 directory. Or ~/.kde (default in unpatched KDE) I left the last 9% to akonadi, which stores all its data in ~/.config. the last 1% is for any stray configuration file that might appear. ~/.local for non desktop specific application data Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Various Kmail paths?
On Thursday, 2011-05-05, John Woodhouse wrote: Think I have sorted this out now. My concern was that I couldn't see my emails - just one of them. I've imported them and then re arranged, intending to keep some and discard the rest. Confused by the fact that dolphin doesn't retain it's view setting so wasn't showing hidden files or more importantly hidden directories. Now fixed as I have selected common view and added the show hidden files button. For some reason sub folders of inbox are in a hidden directory as are some of the KMail-Import folders. On open suse 10.3 kde 3.can't remember this seems to have caused copying problems so lots of my mail wasn't there to be imported when I upgraded. I solved that by re installing my old installation and taring the entire mail directory. ;-) Didn't reduce the size by much if any but did catch all of the contents. I always use tar, as it processes all files and stores access rights flags correctly, etc. Must ask the devs why some mail directories are hidden and others aren't? Surely the sensible option would be to hide the ~kde directory and none of the ones below or at least be consistent and hide all rather than just a few of them. That's how maildir works. Every folder has a directory named like the folder. If a folder contains subfolders, there is a special sub directory which then holds the sub folders again by their name. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: A week of KDE4 usage
On Tuesday, 2011-05-10, Alex Schuster wrote: Actually, I'm quite okay with kmail, although there's some more problems. Sometimes it shows new mails in my IMAP inbox that I already deleted, the solution is to log into my mail server, start mutt, and let it purge these mails. It also hangs sometimes, especially if my IP had changed, but that's not always the case. I close it, and if it doesn't restart because there's still a hanging kontact process, I kill it. And I avoid to delete IMAP folders, or I navigate really quickly out of the folder, because if not kmail will crash. And I really would like to use multiple tabs, but when other tabs are open, mail in those folders is not being checked. Umm, actually that's a lot of bugs. Maybe you are right, but I got used to Kmail, and I tend to prefer the KDE application over other alternatives. What you could be trying is to use Disconnected IMAP instead of normal one. This is a two way sync of a local cache and the IMAP server, meaning you can access mails at any time, even when offline. I am using this with several IMAP accounts and have never seen a problem with stability. Additionally it allows KMail to apply local filters on incoming messages. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: A week of KDE4 usage
On Tuesday, 2011-05-10, Duncan wrote: The same message comes thru when one considers the official name change, from kde, to The KDE Software Collection. Nobody's going to use that in normal usage, or even the shorter KDE-SC, for the same reason nobody uses GNU/Linux in normal usage -- it's too long and inconvenient to say, however correct it arguably may be. The introduction of KDE SC wasn't as name change but rather a much needed disambiguation between producer and product. Lots of people started to be mix the producer KDE (the people who are the KDE contributor community) with the products (e.g. Kontact, Desktop workspace, etc). Software Compilation might not be a very good term for meaning simulationous release of new versions of all products, but there was little (if at all) precendence in this area to go along with. Maybe Software Bundle or Collection would have been better. Anyway, because of this exception (i.e. no other software vendor releasing all its products simultaniously using an umbrella name), the phrasing at KDE has also been adapted to the more common approach of referring to each product (or product group) individually and just say they have all been released on the same date. Of course old mistakes are hard to fix, i.e. in this case referring to the set of products by the same name as the initial product and using the initial product's name as the vendor name. But hopefully continued efforts of using the more meaningful and disambiguated terms will lead to resolving all these misunderstandings previously caused by referring to several distinct entities by the same name. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDE and XDG menu specs
On Wednesday, 2011-05-11, Frank Weng (a.k.a. Franklin) wrote: Hi list, I'm now studying XDG menu specs and want to create our own menu structure. I followed XDG menu specs and created one. Now I met some problems. I found that in my submenu layout, the menu attributes like show_empty, inline didn't work. It looks like all the attributed were ignored. I tried this on Kubuntu (with KDE 4.6.2) and Mageia 1 beta 2 (with KDE 4.6.2). I googled some but wasn't sure if this part is handled by KDE or system. I mean, who is in charge of parsing the menu files and showing menu trees? Implementations of launchers, or their libraries. In case of KDE probably some library in kdelibs but maybe also some higher level component in kdebase. http://efod.se/blog/archive/2006/01/07/the-xdg-menu-standard-parsers-in-kde - and-gnome This link shows that it seems to be KDE/Gnome's responsibility to parse and show menus. If so, my question is that, does KDE fully follow the XDG menu specs? How could I dig in to find out why the menu attributes are ignored? The general idea is that the spec is fully supported, though new additions or changes might take a while to become implemented. I suggest to ask on the plasma-devel list, as it is the main discussion list for workspace related topics (such as the launcher). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KRunner web shortcuts with other browsers than Konqueror
On Wednesday, 2011-05-11, Álvaro Villalba Navarro wrote: Hi list, Web shortcuts is one of the functions of krunner I use most, and rekonq the browser I would like to use as default and which I would like krunners web shortucts to be opened by. Configuring KDE to use rekonq as default browser (for any http/https content) works fine, but I like the behaviour of an application based on the URL content configuration. So, I configured KDE to open 'application/xhtml+xml' files with rekonq, but nor shortcuts neither bookmarks opens with rekonq, but with konqueror. Do any of you know if there is any other mime-type that must be bound with rekonq (or any other browser)? Check the settings for Web browser in Systemsettings - Standard Components Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Programmatically adding plasmoid widgets to the plasma panel?
On Thursday, 2011-06-02, Stephen Dowdy wrote: I have hunted around a bit, but not come up with anything i can run with yet, but want to populate the plasma panel with standard widgets. Below is a shell script i use on KDE3 to allow user to quickly select some standard widgets to add to 'kicker' panel, but i'd like the equivalent for KDE4. At least i'd like to know how to programmatically install a widget similar to what i'm doing below. Anyway, 'kwriteconfig' is certainly not a viable tool to manipulate either KDE3's kicker panel config file, nor the plasma config file (that one's even more horrific requiring a full parse to figure out indexes of multi-variant arrays, blah...) I ran across some cursory ECMAscript docs for plasma, and if that's the way to go, any example code anybody's got is welcome. Anyway, any pointers appreciated. Best source for answers on this level is probably the plasma-devel mailinglist. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
Hi Alex, On Tuesday, 2011-06-28, Alex Schuster wrote: Hi there! I did the big KDE 4.6.3 - 4.6.4 upgrade. Along came the change to KDEPIM 4.6. I feared for the worst, and indeed, it didn't work too well. Ah, sorry to hear that. Most distributions have fortunately not put the new PIM into the normal repositories yet but kept it in experiemental ones for early adopters. On the first login after the upgrade, Akonadi stuff was migrated, and some errors happened. The notice boxes closed automatically before I could make screenshots. Something with the migration of 'Standard-Kalender' to native backend failed, and some more stuff I do not remember. The mail migration part should have written its output to a file as well, check $HOME/.kde/share/apps/kmail-migrator I did not find this akonadi_maildir_resource_3 in the Akonadi Console. So I grepped through .kde4/share/config/* , and found it as DefaultResourceId in the file 'specialmailcollectionsrc' only. I deleted the file, but it is being recreated identically when Akonadi is restarted. I do not know what this is and where is comes from, but I created a dummy Maildir resource (it was called akonadi_maildir_resource_5), and put that into the specialmailcollectionsrc file. Now KMail sort of worked. Well, I got other errors, but at least it no longer crashed during startup. The special mail collections config basically holds the information which mail folders are to be used for default outbox, sent-mail, etc. The initial setup is therefore usually done by the mail sending service (Akonadi maildispatch agent) since it is the one requiring these folders. The migrator attempts to switch that to the folders KMail1 used to use, so my guess is something went wrong there. The mail sending service should actually be able to re-create its default choice of folders if it detects problems, no idea why that did not kick in or why it did not work. Whatever. Easy to fix, but I do not think KMail should crash because of missing folders. Very true. In case this happens again, could you probably save the crash report? On the other hand, I have 'akonadi_localbookmarks_resource_0', showing my Konqueror bookmark folders. Is this normal? Is there any use? I only see the folders and the number of entries, but I do not see the entries itself. Can I delete this somehow, or make KMail not display them? Without removing the bookmarks from Konqueror. Weird thing those should show up in KMail, the content MIME type should be totally different. In any case you can remove the resource, removing a resource only removes the backend handler program, not the backend's storage (e.g. not removing a data file or directory). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Wednesday, 2011-06-29, Duncan wrote: Alex Schuster posted on Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:24:58 +0200 as excerpted: I did the big KDE 4.6.3 - 4.6.4 upgrade. Along came the change to KDEPIM 4.6. I feared for the worst, and indeed, it didn't work too well. Your experience mirrors mine to a large extent. AFAIK we're both on Gentoo. Quite likely, I think this is the only distribution which has enabled the transition in its main repositories so far. Here, I don't use the kontact suite (nor have kontact itself installed) at all, only some of the separate bits. No korganizer, tho it was a forced install with the update, no kalarm, no knode (I run pan instead). Sounds like a packaging problem, none of the other applications depend on Korganizer. The problem, it seems, was that I had kmail (1) set to use a different directory for its mail. What? After ALL this extra time, much of it spent, we were told, on getting the conversion right, it couldn't do a / simple/ thing like read the old kmail config and see where the local mailstore was? Of course the migrator does exactly that. It reads the folders entry in section General of the KMail configuration and uses this location for local folders. If the entry is not present (normal KMail setup), it will use the same default value KMail does, e.g. $HOME/.kde/share/apps/kmail/mail What's the output of kreadconfig --file kmailrc --group General --key folders on your system? The second (maildir) import attempt went better, but crashed half way thru, apparently because some of the old mail folders were in mbox format. (I had tried switching to maildir some years ago, and that was the default, but found no way to switch the default folders as I couldn't delete the old mbox folders in kmail after I'd copied everything to the new maildir folders, so the defaults stayed as mbox, and continued to accumulate some mail, altho filters moved most on receipt to sorted maildir folders. And, I had missed a couple non-defaults as well, including my family mail folder, which was still in mbox format.) The *$#!$ maildir importer was trying to import the mboxes, including the huge family mbox, as *SINGLE* *HUGE* *MULTI-GIG* mails, one for each mbox!! Can you elaborate what kind of importer tool you used here? One part of what the mail migrator tool does is to use a KMail Folders resource (mixed_maildir) to accomodate old KMail folder structures with mbox folders. (this resource has also read-only support for KMail1's index files, allowing it to attach meta data to message objects, e.g. tags, certain status flags). Again, extremely rough beta quality. DEFINITELY not the sort of experience a regular user should need to worry about, and DEFINITELY not the sort of experience one might be lead to expect knowing they spent an extra YEAR PLUS focusing on this stuff. Weird thing about time is that it advances continually while time available to individuals for certain tasks does not. This mistery has found its way into natural languages in form of phrases like I don't have (enough) time for that inspite time constantly making itself available. Scientists have not yet found where this time is drained to before reaching the expected recipient, though theories say it is dried, rolled into cigars and smoked by leechers elsewhere. No, wait, that was fiction. Momo IIRC. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Wednesday, 2011-06-29, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:53:11 +0200 as excerpted: On Wednesday, 2011-06-29, Duncan wrote: Here, I don't use the kontact suite (nor have kontact itself installed) at all, only some of the separate bits. No korganizer, tho it was a forced install with the update, no kalarm, no knode (I run pan instead). Sounds like a packaging problem, none of the other applications depend on Korganizer. korganizer is listed as a kmail-4.6.0 dependency, I didn't have it before. Keep in mind that gentoo is a from-sources distro, so it's possible that kmail requires it only for building. (gentoo does make the distinction between build-time and run-time deps, but I force build-time deps to remain installed after build, to avoid having to reinstall again for the next update.) It is not very common that two applications have a dependency on each other, but being in the same module that could have happened for some reason. It is just weird that this would be introduced now since the move to Akonadi is also about decoupling applications from some of their low level functionality, so e.g. KOrganizer can send mail without having to go through KMail or vice versa (KMail creating a calendar entry from a received invitation without having to go through KOrganizer). I'm guessing that it has to do with the same reason akonadi keeps complaining about my having nepomuk disabled, even tho as best I can see, it's mainly the organizer/alarms/etc functionality it wants, and I don't need that. kmail probably links against that same akonadi functionality, so it must be there at build-time and possibly run-time, even if it's not actually used. No, this is unrelated. Neither does the calendar/alarm support for Akonadi/Nepomuk integration depend on KOrganizer, nor is the Akonadi/Nepomuk cooperation limited to calendar/alarm. Actually the probably most used form of indirect Nepomuk usage is address book searches, e.g. for expanding distribution list or checking sender addresses against the addressbook in mail filters. With this new version of KMail it will also be of interest for people who want to search for email (search in folders or based on matching criteria, not for the quick filtering thing on top of the message list). Or it could be as you suggested a bad dep, tho it's newly and deliberately added, so there was evidently something in the deps that was failing without it, perhaps just because the gentoo/kde folks didn't figure out how to link it to a USE flag option just yet. It could indeed be a build dependency, though I am not sure if this would even be intentional. Maybe someone at Gentoo know why they had to add this. The problem, it seems, was that I had kmail (1) set to use a different directory for its mail. [It] couldn't do a /simple/ thing like read the old kmail config and see where the local mailstore was? Of course the migrator does exactly that. It reads the folders entry in section General of the KMail configuration and uses this location for local folders. If the entry is not present (normal KMail setup), it will use the same default value KMail does, e.g. $HOME/.kde/share/apps/kmail/mail What's the output of kreadconfig --file kmailrc --group General --key folders on your system? $kreadconfig --file kmailrc --group General --key folders ~/config/mail (It probably doesn't matter here but just in case, XDG_CONFIG_HOME points to ~/config and XDG_DATA_HOME to ~/config/local/share for my user. KDEHOME is ~/kde . The two XDG variables shouldn't matter at this point, this is a KDE internal procedure. And KDEHOME is handled by KDE's config framework internally (and correctly as your kdereadconfig output shows). FWIW, while you imply it's a system setting (you ask what the result is on my system, not for my (normal) user), it appears to be a user setting, as my admin user (which never runs kde) has it unset, while my normal user has the results above, ~/config/mail. I didn't mean to imply that it was a system setting, I meant what is the output you are getting when you execute the command. Of course, with KDE's config capabilities of merging config entries from different locations, this could actually be a global setting (e.g. $HOME/Mail), but in this case it is usually user local. And ~/config/mail is exactly where it was, too. As I said in the previous post it's no longer there as I moved it to my media/backup partition, but it there for the first, automatic, import attempt. I only moved it after the auto-convert/import failed and I was getting ready to try again, manually. If kreadconfig returned the correct value than this is what the migrator will read as well (same keys used with the same API). A cause of error could have been a stale kmail2rc from a previous attempt. So I wonder if it's possible, given the parallel access implications of both
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Wednesday, 2011-06-29, Duncan wrote: John Layt posted on Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:39:40 +0100 as excerpted: On Wednesday 29 Jun 2011 18:40:32 Jerome Yuzyk wrote: All this talk about trashed mail and such isn't very encouraging. Is there somewhere that explains what changes are afoot for this new release? Right now it sounds like KMail is going to some big binary blob for all my mails a la Outlook, but that could be my own ignorance - perhaps someone could correct me on that. I'm looking at upgrading my Fedora to 15 and wonder if I'm going to get side-swiped with these hassles and should maybe start looking at another mailer that's free of all the Social Nonsense baggage KDE seems to be accumulating. No, that's a common misconception. Akonadi is a just common data access library that also caches data for efficiency, the underlying data storage remains unchaged, i.e. the usual maildir or ical files. IIRC it was Kevin that set me straight on that, some time ago. Unfortunately, the message that the database stuff is only cache hasn't really made it out as well as it should have, but it's the only reason I'm still on kmail at all. Otherwise I'd have been gone. The database use of Akonadi is basically just an implementation detail nobody other than Akonadi server itself should be concerned about (not even developers working on other parts like library, clients or agents/resources). Some people who obviously favor reimplementing stuff themselves all the time over using exsiting and proven code decided to single this particular detail out and complain about it. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Wednesday, 2011-06-29, Alex Schuster wrote: Kevin Krammer writes: On Tuesday, 2011-06-28, Alex Schuster wrote: BTW, I have lots of resources named akonadi_ical_resource_0 to akonadi_ical_resource_20 (only number 19 is missing), all with no file name selected. You can delete those (kcmshell4 kcm_akonadi_resources or from KOrganizer), this is a hard to reproduce bug (timing related) when migrating calendars. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Wednesday, 2011-06-29, Duncan wrote: The interesting thing about the log found in that dir, here, is that it lists the account migration, mostly pop3 but with one sysmail maildir account, but *NOT* the actual mail migration. Which matches my experience, it auto-migrated the accounts but not the existing mail, taking very little time to do so. Hmm, then only way no mention of local folders migration can happen if the path value read from config does not point to a directory. But what's weird is that the log contains no hint whatsoever about what might have gone wrong with the existing mail migration -- it doesn't mention any attempt to migrate that at all. Which of course explains why the migration went so fast, since for whatever reason, it detected and migrated the accounts, but not the existing mail. shrug The local folder migration is usually very fast. It only walks the folder structure and adjusts filters and similar settings. Usually only takes a couple of seconds (depending of course on how many folders you have and the current I/O load of the system). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: kwin performance gets worse and worse with every release
On Thursday, 2011-06-30, Georg C. F. Greve wrote: On Thursday 30 June 2011 12.49:28 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: I keep seeing this s/\/\g stuff around, but I still don't any idea what it means, lol man sed :) What Georg tries to tell you here in a geeky [1] way is that this is a way to specify searchreplace procedures based on a quite powerful system called regular expressions [2]. The s/dri\.conf/drirc/g quoted earlier basically boils down to Search for dri.conf and replace with drirc everwhere it is encountered in the input Cheers, Kevin [1] Having become a CEO means he needs to actively remind people that he's actually a geek and knows stuff ;) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Thursday, 2011-06-30, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:00:45 +0200 as excerpted: It is just weird that this would be introduced now since the move to Akonadi is also about decoupling applications from some of their low level functionality, so e.g. KOrganizer can send mail without having to go through KMail or vice versa (KMail creating a calendar entry from a received invitation without having to go through KOrganizer). Indeed. But adding that ability means the code to create that calendar entry must be in kmail too, or borrowed from korganizer in the form of a dependency, which is how I'm interpreting this, assuming it's not the double-specified bug above or simply a mistake of some sort. The invitation comes as an ical attachment and ical handling is part of the KDE PIM libraries. So there should be no dependeny on application code for handling invitations correctly. That's actually a question I had, but hadn't asked (or tried) yet, whether email searches, etc, now require nepomuk. I'll probably enable it for that at some point, but the basic functionality that I use normally, doesn't require it, and there's still a bit of weirdness going on (every time a mail comes in, I get a warning about two copies... I suspect I have two different resources pointed at the same place or something but haven't had a chance to investigate yet... but don't spend too much time on that unless you happen to have a simple solution or bug you can point me to, as I'll create a separate thread for it when I'm ready, given that it's really a separate topic and this thread's convoluted enough already), so I'm not worried about /extra/ functionality yet, just trying to keep it reasonably simple to deal with until I'm sure the basics are working correctly. I don't have a bug number at hand but I think this is a know one. Something triggering the change collision detection when there is none. Ah, so you were referring to the mail importer (executable kmailcvt), not the migrator (executable kmail-migrator). Yes. By that point the migrator had finished, failing to detect the local mail store at all, according to the migrator log which has no mention of it, no errors, nothing. So I was doing the manual import thing. But I had assumed that the migrator was simply an automatic trigger for what would otherwise be a manual import/conversion process, thus more or less conflating them in my discussion, I suppose. It appears that I assumed wrong, and they're two entirely separate things. Yeah, the best thing at that point would have been to simply create a KMail Folders resource and point it to the KMail mail directory. The kmailcvt tools is a very old one and should probably be replaced at some point. I had a GSoC student on that topic last year but we didn't reach a state where we could think about replacing kmailcvt. Unfortunately no development on that since last year. A lot of ideas but way to much other things to do. What I found interesting was that it wasn't /all/ messages unread or all read, it was /mostly/ unread. If there wasn't support for the index files at all, they should all be unread (or all read, arbitrary choice of the importer). Maildir messages also carry their read/unread status as part of their filename, so maybe the importer interpreted that for some of them. It could also be a bug in the interaction between the importer and Akonadi, or the importer and KMail (no idea if it has been ported to work with Akonadi or still works through KMail). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: A week of KDE4 usage
On Saturday, 2011-07-02, Alex Schuster wrote: BTW, ordinary users here means people who often do not speak English. The German localization misses a lot, so KDE 4 is not right for them. Is KDE 4 meant to be for these people? I'm not sure. Hmm, using KDE localized for German myself I can't really agree with this. Do you have an example of something not being translated properly? Do by any chance run something Ubuntu based and using their language packages? BTW, who actually does the coding for KDE 4? How many of those people are being payed for this, how many just do this for fun in their free time? I don't think there is any significant number of developers currently being paid to work on KDE. IIRC Aaron Seigo is, David Faure is 50%, some of the people working on Calligra Office are. The Kontact Touch project was done as a contract work for a German covernmental entity, but that has been delivered and there are currently no follow-up contracts as far as I know. Canonical might have somebody working on KDE stuff as well. Gnome works fine, but I did not use much of it. Networkmanager is a pain, and I had a hard time setting up WLAN. This was not very user friendly. Interesting, I always found NetworkManager to be quite easy, at least when the WLAN is broadcasting its ESSID (which most of them do). Mostly using WPA though, had to experiment a bit when doing WPA-PSK, but work also from UI (i.e. no file editing required). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: A week of KDE4 usage
On Monday, 2011-07-04, Alex Schuster wrote: Kevin Krammer writes: On Saturday, 2011-07-02, Alex Schuster wrote: BTW, ordinary users here means people who often do not speak English. The German localization misses a lot, so KDE 4 is not right for them. Is KDE 4 meant to be for these people? I'm not sure. Hmm, using KDE localized for German myself I can't really agree with this. Do you have an example of something not being translated properly? Sorry, no. Since 4.6.3, nearly all my KDE applications suddenly are in English. An exception is systemsettings, although the applications in it are English again. The K menu also has German entries, and the KDE Help Center has most stuff in German. Must be some bug because kde-l10n is installed, and German is set as application language in the help menu. I don't care much, let's wait and see if 4.7 will correct this. Before 4.6.3, most things were German, but sometimes dialogs were not. But no, I can't remember any specific ones. Strange. I am always using German localization myself and have never seen this before. Had been using 4.4.10 until about last week, now on 4.6.4 and still everything translated just fine. Do by any chance run something Ubuntu based and using their language packages? No, Gentoo. Ah. Might not be valid anymore anyway, but at some point Ubuntu (and its variants) had really bad translations due to them being fixed through merges from Canonical's online translation platform. Nice for small programs but borderline to diasterous for software from big projects like KDE or GNOME. Since Debian packages seem to work just fine it could be either a packaging or configuration issue. Does this happen for all user accounts? Also new ones? Gnome works fine, but I did not use much of it. Networkmanager is a pain, and I had a hard time setting up WLAN. This was not very user friendly. Interesting, I always found NetworkManager to be quite easy, at least when the WLAN is broadcasting its ESSID (which most of them do). Mostly using WPA though, had to experiment a bit when doing WPA-PSK, but work also from UI (i.e. no file editing required). I have never used WLAN with Linux before, and I hoped that it would automagically work. It usually does. My laptop has had its fair share of unencrypted, WEP, WPA and even one WPA-PSK networks, all quite simple through network manager. Occasionally even mobile broadband (though I prefer PPP tools there for fine tuning some options). The interfaces came up, but when I tried to connect, I was asked for the WEP password. Some notice that my WLAN drivers were not capable of WPA would have been nice, I did not know what was the problem. Or a list of the interfaces capabilities. I still do not understand why a PCMCIA card did not work, that worked out of the box with an earlier Ubuntu Version. After I flashed the internal card, WPA suddenly worked. Ah, I have a nicely supported integrated Intel Wireless 3945. Might be different with plugplay hardware. But the interface often does not come up after resuming from suspend to RAM or disk. Sometimes the connection also drops during normal usage. I get a notification that the interface is down, but NetworkManager still shows it as up. I have to manually disconnect and then connect again. Ah, strange. I have seen drops but then the interface was really gone on all levels. Reconnect after resume (from standby) works every single day (my laptop suspends to RAM every evening and is resumed every morning). I also did not find a quick way to turn it off altogether, I would prefer the interface to be up all the time, even if no one is logged in. Permanent connections can usually be configured by whatever system the distribution uses for networking. Definitely works with Debian's networking/interfaces, with either NetworkManager stopped or not installed. NetworkManager even has support for getting some configurated networks that ways, but I haven't tried that option myself yet. Will likely also depend on some distribution specific plugin and might not be supported on Gentoo. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Thursday, 2011-07-07, Alex Schuster wrote: I wanted to see if distribution lists work with the new Kontact - they did not with the old one, a mail to TESTGROUP would not go to the email addresses of this group's members, but TESTGROUP@myserver.mydomain. But when I open the address book and enter a new group, the new KMail does not know about this group and will not autocomplete. Seems like KMail does not know about any of my contacts. Could also be a problem with the Nepomuk setup, e.g. Nepomuk not running or a problem with the Akonadi agent telling Nepomuk about contacts (akonadi_nepomuk_contact_feeder) I do not understand at all how this works. I still have the contacts in my address book, so the migration has worked for them, but when I open the settings, they show the location as ~/.kde4/share/apps/kabc/stdvcf, and this directory is empty. So all this stuff is in Akonadi's mysql database now? What's the purpose of this empty directory? I think the address book migrator moves the contacts to $HOME/.local/share/contacts, the resource Personal Contacts should point to that. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: KDEPIM 4.6 prob^Wimpressions
On Tuesday, 2011-07-19, Alex Schuster wrote: I waited for over a year until I started filing the first KDE4 bug. There were so many, and I thought filing them would not be necessary, as the KDE developers just have to start the applications for themselves and then they'll see. Unfortunately that isn't as clear cut in reality as it is in theory. Any software with higher complexity than hello world has lots of different code paths, each potentially changing the internal state of the application or stored data it works on. Running into each combination of paths by incidence (aka just start the application) is extremely unlikely (winning the lottery is probably more likely than that). Anyone working in software engineering has had bugs that get reported repeatedly but it takes some specific detail in one report to actually get it reproducible for the person trying to solve it. And that it is just for the functionality provided by the application or a library shipped with it, not counting any kind of differences that might be caused by an external dependency or a modification the entity building the software. I know KDE developers who run their git master checkout as their main environment, but their workflows or surrounding setups are often very different from those of non-developers. For example several KDE PIM developers have been using KMail2 for somewhat between one and two years now, at least one even as a native Mac OS X apps. But none of them are using POP3 and several are using the same IMAP server software. I always find it both fascinating but also demoralising how many things get discovered even during beta periods which only a few people participate in. Fascinating because one often cannot imagine (inspite of experience telling otherwise) that some often exercised code could lead to a different outcome than those known. I understand this. That's why I prefer usenet much over web forums, at least for things that are mostly text-only. The web is fast these days, but I hate latencies when clicking through messages. Oh, and I have to click, while navigation by keyboard is more practical. Indeed. It is a pity that none of the common web forum software packages has a built- in news gateway. There's that inevitable feel to it, for sure... What got me was how blase' all the kde folks seemed to be to glaring konqueror issues like no proper ssl/tls certificate management, while all the while calling it ready for ordinary use. Indeed, ready for use means to me I could do online banking with it. Hmm, I always do online banking with Konqueror. Have done so for years. I'm using rdiff-backup, and I back up all my ~/.* files regularly. At least every time before I save the session. takes a while now, because I have nearly 2G in my .kde4/share/apps/kmail/dimap folder. Seems KMail (or Akonadi) downloaded everything from my IMAP server, I didn't expect that. KMail. Account type Disconnected IMAP basically works by two-way synchronizing a local copy of IMAP folders with the server, thus allowing offline (disconnected) access to the data. This was originally mainly necessary for working with IMAP based groupware servers such as Kolab, to ensure addressbook and calendar entries could be accessed quickly without needing to wait for the IMAP server to respond. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: Plasma hangs, could not log in
On Wednesday, 2011-07-20, Anne Wilson wrote: Many of those things have already been addressed. Yes, any database that attempts to index everything is going to be big. The KMail issue, though, I consider to be more serious. I take it that you are using the experimental KMail2? I understand that IMAP and DIMAP have been merged, and I assume that that means DIMAP (downloaded) in every case. I'm not too happy about that myself. IMAP and DIMAP have only been merged in the sense that KMail no longer contains any kinds differences between the two account types, nor does the IMAP resource as the new IMAP server accessor. It does not mean that there is no online IMAP anymore, that still exists. Local caching of mails is now actually doable on a much more fine grained level, e.g. on per-folder than on per-account basis. As far as I know there is just no folder level UI for that yet, so DIMAP account still cache all folders and IMAP accounts cache none. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: 4.7 nepomuk won't die
On Saturday, 2011-07-30, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:13:27 +0200 as excerpted: Given Gentoo's highly adaptive build handling, it should be possible to have slightly extended KDE build system files which explicitly check for certain libraries in the kdepimlibs module and disable apps for which dependencies could not be found. Yes. There's some gentoo/kde changes that need made in this regard, including that gentoo/kde currently puts akonadi/nepomuk/strigi in the same basket under USE=semantic-desktop, and worse, effective requires that to be turned on for everything if it's turned on for one single item (a semantic-desktop= dependency that should be semantic-desktop?, for dolphin, gwenview, etc, so that if it's required for e.g. kmail, that triggers it for kdelibs, which due to the = in place of ? for dolphin, etc, triggers it for everything else. Meanwhile, thanks for your direct statement on the matter. If I file a gentoo bug on this as I've been intending to do, I will very likely quote and link it. =:^) I hope you mean bug as in wishlist entry :) Extending upstream project files to have more modularity might be awesome but not having it is hardly a defect. Well, that is as far as I understand how Gentoo work :) As for a setting controlling startup: lets assume there would be an option which would prohibit Akonadi server start. Should all applications then show an error asking whether to change that setting? E.g. KMail saying You have disabled access to emails. Do you want to Quit KMail or Enabled email access? IMO? The way kmail (kdepim 4.6.1 version, as I mentioned, I don't have 4.7 installed so can't see whether it has changed) and akonaditray (which apparently invokes kcmshell4 akonadi with its configure option, both 4.6 and 4.7 kdepim) handle it is good. When the app is invoked, the main window is disabled (configured here as darkened), with the notice and a button to turn on akonadi, thus enabling the window. That's good! The warning/error stays out of my hair unless/until I open an app that needs akonadi. =:^) Hmm, so instead of starting Akonadi on-demand switch to a model where it is either autostarted at session login or not and have applications appear with their error overlay in case the latter option is the user's policy? Current behavior assumes that people launching an application did so because they wanted to use it, thus having the Akonadi client start Akonadi server. By contrast, the nepomuk notification warning that apparently akonadi (both kdepim 4.6 and 4.7) generates when nepomuk is off, is QUITE irritating, in particular because there's no obvious don't warn me again checkbox, as there commonly is with warning dialogs. (That may be a limitation of the kde notification framework, I don't know. Regardless...) Seems we need a way for applications to inform the user which part of their functionality is not available when Nepomuk is not available. E.g. KMail detecting the Nepomuk not running situation and telling the user that search, address completion, distributionlists, filters on email, etc will not be available. Probably with an additional option to enable these now, i.e. changing the Nepomuk config accordingly. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
[kde] Re: 4.7 nepomuk won't die
On Sunday, 2011-07-31, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Sat, 30 Jul 2011 14:48:45 +0200 as excerpted: On Saturday, 2011-07-30, Duncan wrote: As for a setting controlling startup: lets assume there would be an option which would prohibit Akonadi server start. Should all applications then show an error asking whether to change that setting? E.g. KMail saying You have disabled access to emails. Do you want to Quit KMail or Enabled email access? IMO? The way kmail (kdepim 4.6.1 version, as I mentioned, I don't have 4.7 installed so can't see whether it has changed) and akonaditray (which apparently invokes kcmshell4 akonadi with its configure option, both 4.6 and 4.7 kdepim) handle it is good. When the app is invoked, the main window is disabled (configured here as darkened), with the notice and a button to turn on akonadi, thus enabling the window. That's good! The warning/error stays out of my hair unless/until I open an app that needs akonadi. =:^) Hmm, so instead of starting Akonadi on-demand switch to a model where it is either autostarted at session login or not and have applications appear with their error overlay in case the latter option is the user's policy? Current behavior assumes that people launching an application did so because they wanted to use it, thus having the Akonadi client start Akonadi server. Yes. The troublefree default would obviously be to start akonadi when an app needs it. Just make that subject to a veto, with the option presumably placed somewhere in (kde, not system) settings. So something like this: - by default start Akonadi when an application needs it - have an option that makes application start without starting Akonadi and letting the user start it through the error overlay? But to be clear, /something/ is evidently starting it /regardless/ of need at present. Or at least /something/, I'm presuming it's akonadi, is triggering the warning notification (three times immediately on top of each other) about nepomuk being off in relation to akonadi functionality, even tho I no longer have any apps actually needing akonadi. I think you are correct that the notification about Nepomuk triggered by some Akonadi process. However this also implys that there is something accessing Akonadi, otherwise it wouldn't have been started. You could use fuser on the Akonadi server socket next time that happens to see which process is on the client end of the connection. By contrast, the nepomuk notification warning that apparently akonadi (both kdepim 4.6 and 4.7) generates when nepomuk is off, is QUITE irritating, in particular because there's no obvious don't warn me again checkbox, as there commonly is with warning dialogs. (That may be a limitation of the kde notification framework, I don't know. Regardless...) Seems we need a way for applications to inform the user which part of their functionality is not available when Nepomuk is not available. E.g. KMail detecting the Nepomuk not running situation and telling the user that search, address completion, distributionlists, filters on email, etc will not be available. Probably with an additional option to enable these now, i.e. changing the Nepomuk config accordingly. Yes. The notification mechanism could still be used, but make it conditional on actually starting kmail or something else that needs nepomuk running (which it presumably would be if akonadi itself only started when actually needed), and most important, have an option to don't warn me again. If having such an option means it can't be a notification but must be a dialog, due to notification limitations, fine. Sometimes users /do/ know what they're doing, and don't mind a warning the first time, but if it happens /every/ time it gets irritating rather fast, so that option to turn off the warning is vital. I think notifications as implemented by Plasma support this kind of action. Makes sense to allow it to be treated as an optional feature by choice. Will try to discuss such an improvement at the Berlin Desktop Summit. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] I just noticed: no more crashes! Thanks, KDE team!
On Wednesday, 2011-08-03, Duncan wrote: Sergei Andreev posted on Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:39:01 +0400 as excerpted: And the answer is: http://www.freehackers.org/thomas/2009/11/10/wonders-from-a-kde-fan-and- developer-about-some-kde-design-choices/comment-page-1/#comment-7507 Of course it doesn't perform well with each plasmoid as a separate process... because they chose components with that characteristic. That's the point. It was a new thing so they could chose the components they wanted, and despite the fact that the flexibility of being able to run binary plasmoids of uncertain stability created by people of all talent levels was a design goal, they chose to use components that had poor performance characteristics when run in separate processes. Actually no. It is mainly a problem of the underlying technology, i.e. embedding one process' window into another one's not being very well supported, or at least not on X11. It is less a problem of performance, Konqueror has done plugins out-of-process for ever (incidentally making it the only browser to survive Flash crashes for years before other browsers changed to that model as well). But it clearly showed the limits of the underlying technologies used for that, e.g. the embedding process having little to no control over the embedded window (other than probably size and position) and embedded window having very few means of communicating needs to the host (and having two separate and exclusive event processing contexts). So with basically forced to have all UI portions in the same process, running the data processing in separate execution units might be possible in some occasions without dragging down performance too much (as indicated by Aaron in the linked comment). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] I just noticed: no more crashes! Thanks, KDE team!
On Wednesday, 2011-08-03, Duncan wrote: But what about the other bit, where I suggested (rewording a bit) that (1), a natural process subdivision would be at the container level, that (2), while a whole individual panel or desktop container crashing wouldn't be as good as limiting it to an individual plasmoid, it'd certainly be far better than all of plasma including all panels, all desktops and all activities coming down at once, thus significantly limiting the damage, that (3), given existing behavior both with effects on and with them off, separate container processes each with their own window would behave very little differently in terms of composite, etc, and (4), that inter-container/inter-process communication could be reasonably limited without affecting performance /that/ drastically, while at the same time, /drastically/ improving robustness, just as it has with the separate krunner and as it does currently when for example using plasmoidviewer or plasma-windowed for plasmoid-development or the like. It seems to be that would be a reasonable compromise, bypassing both the worst of the stability problems by limiting crashes to a single container, and the worst of the performance problems, because each container would then be its own window. I guess that should be possible. I don't know the internals of plasma-desktop but I guess it could quite easy be extended to take an optional argument which holds the containment it should be responsible for. So launching it without arguments would make it handle all configured containments but launching several instances with arguments would make each instance just handle one. Would need a slighlty different approach for any kind of D-Bus interaction (if some programs are using that) since only one program can hold the D-Bus name org.kde.plasma-desktop Might be worthwhile to experiment whether plasmamoidviewer could be used to run just a panel. I.e. running plasma-desktop just as the desktop and running plasmoidviewer as the panel process. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kdepim akonadi questions
Hi Martin, On Sunday, 2011-08-14, Martin Bednár wrote: Hi all, first of all, I'd like to state that I'm all in for the Akonadi concept : a central storage for pim-related (and other) data; endless possibilities. However, I have a few questions : how does mail search work? I gathered that mails get fed to nepomuk, but so far I have only been able to find mails by sender (sometimes by subject). By subject is quite limited for me, because sometimes I get mails with diacritics in the subject (ř,š and others), yet my main keyboard layout doesn't have it, and I have no way of searching for those subjects without changing the layout. (I have hope that kmail search will become more powerful than gmail's, but for now I can't feel that power). Are you talking about searching (as in find messages action) or filtering (quick search bar on top of the message list)? As far a I know the latter work like before, i.e. KMail looking at subject and sender, while searching is now handled the way you describe (through querying Nepomuk). Next, what exactly is the compatibility brigde? I'm trying to translate this term into czech, but without exact knowledge of what it is, it's quite hard. My theory is that it's an Akonadi resource capable of using the old KResource format as storage backend. Just a theory, if anyone can elaborate, please do. This is correct. There are basically two kinds of bridges: the ones you described (allowing Akonadi to access data provided by KResource plugins) and the other way around (a plugin to allow KResource using applications to access data in Akonadi). The latter is sometimes also referred to as client bridge. See the middle column in these images: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#KResource_Migration_Status What's up with Lion-mail? I've read about it some time ago, but I don't see it anywhere... Or does anyone have an Akonadi based applet that notifies of new mail (Kmail2 not running is a must). Sorry, no idea about Lion mail's status and unfortunately no idea about any other mail notifier either. And last, : As far as I understand, Akonadi creates a Nepomuk NCO object for every contact. Are there any plans to make a service that combines information from multiple NCO into one PIMO object and have an address book based on it? Yes, currently being worked on as a Google Summer of Code project: http://martys.typepad.com/blog/2011/06/gsoc-pim-nepomuk-and-telepathy.html Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kdepim akonadi questions
On Tuesday, 2011-08-16, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:53:41 +0200 as excerpted: On Sunday, 2011-08-14, Martin Bednár wrote: first of all, I'd like to state that I'm all in for the Akonadi concept : a central storage for pim-related (and other) data; endless possibilities. FWIW, the kdepim developers can do what they want, I understand the idea of the synergies involved and I know it's useful for kontact all-in-one- view users especially, but for my usage (kmail/kaddressbook and akregator only, as separate apps, I used pan for news and don't need an organizer or do IM), all that heavy-duty database stuff was rather like using a howitzer to kill a fly. The common infrastructure is actually more useful for the separate apps use case than the all-in-one app. An all-in-one application can easily achieve most of these features internally, it is separate apps when providing solutions for common problems makes a difference. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] proxy settings
On Friday, 2011-09-09, Osvaldo Martin wrote: Hi, Proxy setting can be stored in the environment variable HHTP_PROXY (I think this works in every Linux), but in GNOME the proxy setting could be configured using Network Proxy Preference in that case proxy setting are stored inside Gconf. KDE uses environment variable HHTP_PROXY and/or other place to store proxy settings? KDE stores its proxy settings in a file called kioslaverc, usually located in $HOME/.kde/share/config or $HOME/.kde4/share/config Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] proxy settings
Hi, On Friday, 2011-09-09, Osvaldo Martin wrote: Hi, Googling kioslaverc I found that there is a command to read from that file, in order to extract the http proxy settings I should use this command: kreadconfig --file kioslaverc --group Proxy\ Settings --key httpproxy this will return the http host and the port, If the user is ussing and authentication proxy conecction it will give also the username and password? I guess so. It this command available by default or require the installation some extra package? Yes, kreadconfig is part of all KDE installations. However it only returns a value from a config file, it does not interpret the config. For example the attached config is my own, but proxy is disabled (I guess ProxyType=0 means disabled). If you need more information on KDE proxy handling I suggest you ask on the kde-core-devel mailing list. Cheers, Kevin thanks. On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Osvaldo Martin aloctavo...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Kevin, Thanks for your answer Let me give you a little of background I am writing code in Python. The idea is to try to avoid asking the user to set the proxy, I already solve this for gnome (and may be for Windows and Mac Osx...) do you know how to get the proxy setting from this kioslaverc file? or may be could you send me an example of that file? (I am using gnome). Thanks. On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 4:26 AM, Kevin Krammer kevin.kram...@gmx.atwrote: On Friday, 2011-09-09, Osvaldo Martin wrote: Hi, Proxy setting can be stored in the environment variable HHTP_PROXY (I think this works in every Linux), but in GNOME the proxy setting co uld be configured using Network Proxy Preference in that case proxy setting are stored inside Gconf. KDE uses environment variable HHTP_PROXY and/or other place to store proxy settings? KDE stores its proxy settings in a file called kioslaverc, usually located in $HOME/.kde/share/config or $HOME/.kde4/share/config Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html. -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring PersistentProxyConnection=false [$Version] update_info=kioslave.upd:kde2.2/r1,kioslave.upd:kde2.2/r2,kioslave.upd:kde2.2/r3 [Notification Messages] WarnOnLeaveSSLMode=false [Proxy Settings] AuthMode=0 NoProxyFor= Proxy Config Script= ProxyType=0 ReversedException=false ftpProxy= httpProxy=http://proxy.vc-graz.ac.at:3128 httpsProxy= signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, 2011-09-11, Alex Schuster wrote: Tim Edwards writes: Saw something interesting in the konsole window - just before the freeze ups each time there is output from the Pyweather plasma widget that shows it trying to retrieve weather data from the net. Currently our cable internet is out so I'm using 3G (USB tethering from the mobile phone), which in our house is slow and gets an intermittent signal. My theory is it looks like the Pyweather widget is hanging trying to get data sometimes, and this in turn hangs plasma-desktop. Which, if true, is IMHO a huge design fault in plasma-desktop. Anyway I'll see if this theory holds out, Pyweather's been removed and so far no freezes. Yes, that's the problem with plasma-desktoüp, it's single threaded, and if one plasmoid hangs, whole plasma hangs. I often had such trouble when using plasmoids I downloaded fron the net. I also believe it's a huge design fault, but there _are_ indeed reasons for doing this, having to do with speed mainly I think. I don't find the link right now where this was explained, but if you are interested, I could search and find it. Retrieving data could still be done asynchronously, KDE's networking can do that even in a single threaded application. Looks like the respective applet or whatever it is using for downloading data is broken. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, 2011-09-11, Alex Schuster wrote: Kevin Krammer writes: On Sunday, 2011-09-11, Alex Schuster wrote: Tim Edwards writes: My theory is it looks like the Pyweather widget is hanging trying to get data sometimes, and this in turn hangs plasma-desktop. Which, if true, is IMHO a huge design fault in plasma-desktop. Anyway I'll see if this theory holds out, Pyweather's been removed and so far no freezes. Yes, that's the problem with plasma-desktoüp, it's single threaded, and if one plasmoid hangs, whole plasma hangs. I often had such trouble when using plasmoids I downloaded fron the net. I also believe it's a huge design fault, but there _are_ indeed reasons for doing this, having to do with speed mainly I think. I don't find the link right now where this was explained, but if you are interested, I could search and find it. Here it is: http://www.freehackers.org/thomas/2009/11/10/wonders-from-a-kde-fan-and-dev eloper-about-some-kde-design-choices/comment-page-1/#comment-7507 Retrieving data could still be done asynchronously, KDE's networking can do that even in a single threaded application. Sure, I didn't want to imply that was a problem. I didn't think you were, just explaining that there should be no blocking due to downloading data unless something is wrong. Looks like the respective applet or whatever it is using for downloading data is broken. And it's bad that this is able to make plasma hang. Unless proven otherwise I will assume that it is not. As in I really don't see how non-blocking downloading could block an application unless the application specifically blocks itself, which I would consider a bug. In the days of cooperative multitasking, every application could make your system hang - these days are over. I've never had one application hang the system. Doesn't happen in this context either, the OP reports everything other than the hanging application working fine. But for plasma, it's still like this. Highly unlikely. Since it did not happen for the OP, can you point to a report were hanging Plasma resulted in no other processes working either? And it's happened really often to me. Sounds like a serious kernel issue of your operating system to me. Modern operating system have pretty good isolation between processes. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Sunday, 2011-09-11, Duncan wrote: Anne Wilson posted on Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:35:32 +0100 as excerpted: I take your point, but in truth, any well-written piece of code should be able to exit gracefully if something fails. If it can't, I'd rather not run it at all. You're absolutely correct. But the point is, one of the big selling- point features of plasma has been its extensibility... by coders who may in fact be rather bad at it, beginners or whatever. In that sort of environment, you have to COUNT on some of the code being bad, because it is GOING to happen. An app designed for that can't simply crash when one of the extensions goes bad, because it WILL heppen, and it WILL look bad for the main app as a result. It MUST be designed to be robust and have the rest keep running in spite of whatever badly coded barf-code someone throws at it, or it wasn't so properly designed for that extensibility as it might seem to be after all. That's what Plasma's Javascript API is for. The extension points which allow external code to be part of the applet, e.g. C++, Python, can't be isolated against bad behavior very well. Hence the need and existance of a save extension point. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE Panel freezing when HDMI connected
On Monday, 2011-09-12, Anne Wilson wrote: On Monday 12 Sep 2011 Alex Schuster wrote: I don't know it this is possible for a single-threaded application, I assume the answer is no. I do not think there is some sort of supervisor that calls and controls the individual plasmoids. When a plasmoid's code being executed, and that goes in an endless loop, it will stay, and plasma will not react any further. At least that's my understanding. Either I'm misunderstanding you, or that is unbelievable. From the earliest days of basic coding you could set a timer so that if no response was obtained by then the loop exited. Are you saying that 30 years on this is not possible? Ah, but the timer won't fire because the process is executing the other stuff. For any kind of interrupt to work one needs at least a second execution context. Even then cancelling an operation might not be possible if it wasn't designed for that or is blocking in a call to some external code, e.g. a file read. Things can usually be done more asynchronously than they are done now, but it is way more complicated which is why initial implementations of things are almost always synchronous. The case of something blocking due to networking is definitely fixable and should have been asynchronous from the start. I recommend letting the respective developer know about this limitation. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] My KMail keeps searching something
Hi Franklin, On Saturday, 2011-09-24, Franklin Weng wrote: Hi list, Recently my KMail is very busy. It often becomes very busy and keeps accessing my hard drive, and hence slows down my system. I turn on the kmail debug message in kdebugdialog and launch KMail in Konsole, and I found that during the busy period my KMail is searching something in my folder: kmail(11857) KMSearch::slotSearchFolderResult: TEA found 0 .. A lot messages like above and the folder name is repeating. But I don't even know what it is looking for and why it acts like that. Does anyone have any idea about what happens? I have no idea why it is doing that on every startup but settles down after a while of running, but I found that this seems to solve the problem: 1) Stop KMail 2) go to directory $HOME/.kde/share/apps/kmail/search (or $HOME/.kde4 on some distributions) 3) delete the file calles Last Search (seems to be localized/translated) 4) Restart KMail Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
When introducing a new party to a converstation, in this case the KDE user mailinglist, it is usually very helpful to provide context to said new party. When the discussion has happened on one mailinglist so far, a good way to do that is to provide a link to the discussion start in the original mailinglist's archive. On Friday, 2012-01-13, Dan Armbrust wrote: Dude.. if you spent half as much time submitting a patch, as you did complaining about the issue, it would be fixed yesterday.. Quit complaining, you aren't paying for this software. Fix it yourself, or stop using it. No one cares just because you want to whine like a spoiled little brat. Same goes to the developers. They could have fixed it in about 2 minutes, 2 years ago. If you actually read the e-mails in this thread, you would see that I have stopped using it. I'm continuing to make noise about it because Okular is exposing personal data of every other unsuspecting user that ever touches it. Assuming that was the reason for including this support mailing list, having basically no information about the problem does more harm than good. Given the tiny pieces of information so far (exposing personal data) I have to assume that Okular is attaching some kind of user input history to documents? Is it attaching itself (behaving like a virus) to the document? The developers of Okular don't seem to care. Perhaps someone higher up at KDE who understands a security issue when they see one, will. You mean the Okular maintainer? No idea who that currently is but did that person participate in the discussion on the Okular list? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Saturday, 2012-01-14, Dan Armbrust wrote: On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Kevin Krammer kevin.kram...@gmx.at wrote: When introducing a new party to a converstation, in this case the KDE user mailinglist, it is usually very helpful to provide context to said new party. When the discussion has happened on one mailinglist so far, a good way to do that is to provide a link to the discussion start in the original mailinglist's archive. Apologies, I thought I included the kde list in the initial posts, which had the summary info. It must not have gone through. Ah, I see. Thanks for the links. In short,if you: Download a PDF. Fill in personal information. Print it. Close it. Never once even hitting save... Okular dumps every bit of data that you typed into a clear text file in a hidden directory. At a minimum, its really bad behavior. At worst, on say, a library terminal, it is opening up every unsuspecting user to having their information stolen. Hmm. Most software with autocompletion support does that. E.g. browsers, email programs. So my guess is that the completion data is not stored in kwallet, like e.g. for Konqueror? There is no warning, notice, or any such clue within ocular that it is doing this. Its a pretty basic user-interface paradigm that you shouldn't store data like that without the users permission. Well, I've to admit I've never seen any program doing that. When I fill in forms in e.g. Firefox or Konqueror, it doesn't say anything along those lines either, but when I am filling in the same form later again, it somehow can propose reasonable values for certain fields. So my guess is it also stores my previous input somewhere. Hopefullly locally like Okular and not uploading to the server! Especially in an application that handles PDF files, which are used for private and personal stuff all the time. See above. At least most of my online bookings contain personal data. How do you handle those cases? Anyway, I agree that the completion data should probably be saved in an encrypted file, e.g. KWallet, instead of plain text to mitigate the exposing data in case the security of the user's local storage is compromised. However I don't see any facts supporting the claim of virus like behavior. IMHO that sounds a bit like trying to trigger an emotional rather than an rational response in readers of that posting, which ultimately tends to hurt the cause more than it helps. E.g. other supportes of the cause might find out they have been tricked and withdraw their support inspite of still being concerned about core issues. I would recommend lobbying for secure storage of form completion data like other form completing programs do. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Sunday, 2012-01-15, Dan Armbrust wrote: Hmm. Most software with autocompletion support does that. E.g. browsers, email programs. They also ask your permission first. Interesting. Neither Konqueror, Firefox, KMail or Thunderbird have asked me whether I wanted to store form data. Can you attach a screenshot of an application asking that? And they have an off switch. And, they definitely don't autocomplete fields which are know to contain private info - aka - passwords. Unless you go through another dialog telling it to remember the password. And they give you a menu option to clear it. And, most browsers now have a don't remember anything mode. Okular has none of those. Right, hence the recommendation for lobby for an implementation doing that. However I don't see any facts supporting the claim of virus like behavior. Hiding users data without permission and without the users knowledge certainly is virus like behavior. No, virus behavior is attaching itself with the purpose of distribution and spreading. I don't think Okular is doing either. If they didn't click save, you shouldn't save. Its pretty simple. Well, even some document creation applications are moving to an autosafe approach. I am not aware of any application with autocompletion fields which asked whether to save the autocompletion data. But again my own experience is limited to the applications I use, which KDE and Mozilla programs. I would recommend lobbying for secure storage of form completion data like other form completing programs do. I doubt it would help. I wouldn't be so sure. Securely storing form completion data is what lots of other programs do, so find it likely that moving from a plain text storage to an encrypted storage would find support especially among users of that features, while asking for removal will not. The feature is so mis-conceived from the get-go that it serves almost no purpose. Hmm. I haven't used Okular's implementation yet but generally I find form completion support to be rather useful. I used it all the times when filling in web forms or completing email addresses. There is almost no point in storing form data for Form A in randomly named File B. Right, hence the suggestion to ask for an implementation using standard form completion storage solutions, e.g. on KDE that would be KWallet. If you even rename file A, Okular gets confused and can no longer associate the data from File B with Form A. Right, using URIs works better for web sites. File A's SHA1 hash might be sufficiently unique though. Don't even think about trying to sent Form A to another person... it doesn't work. The only way it could be properly implemented is to store the data in the actual PDF file, where it belongs. But that is hard. So it seems unlikely that it will ever be implemented in the near future. Right, I would consider that an additional feature. Treating the current document more as a template for creating a new document. Such a feature should probably deploy explicit saving since it changes the document at hand. The only sane thing to do is to turn the feature off. At least by default. At least give the user some control over it. Which I suggested 2 years ago. And here we _still_ are. My guess is that asking for deactivation or removal of a feature cherished by other users and found in other form displaying programs will always be met with more resistance than asking for an improved implementation, e.g. how browsers do it. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Kmail passwords
On Monday, 2012-01-23, Duncan wrote: Meanwhile, of course, with 4.8 kde is introducing the new ksecrets framework, designed to be api compatible with gnome-keyring (tho the backends are different), Just to clarify: secret service is actually a new API for services providing secure local storage. One implementation of such a service is gnome-keyring, though a lot of GNOME based programs still use the old, gnome-keyring specific, API. There is some progress on a KDE based implementation for both the service and the client part of a secret service setup. The service component will at some point be run as part of a KDE workspace setup, offering its services to any client application developed for the secret service API. The client library will allow KDE applications to access any other service implementation, e.g. when the KDE application is running in a setup which uses gnome-keyring as the storage service. The KWallet API will be implemented in terms of the new API, thus making KWallet using applications use the currently running secret service. and over the next several kde versions, it's likely various apps will switch to ksecrets from kwallet, leaving kwallet deprecated, altho I'm guessing it'll remain available thru the kde4 series. Indeed. But whether it'll be in kde 5 or whether ksecrets will take over for kde5 and they'll drop kwallet, remains to be seen. I don't think this is a question of if. It is more a question of whether we will see a stand-alone or shared service implementation being used by common workspace setups. In any case this won't change anything for the thread starter until there is a service implementation that does not store the data in an encrypted file but in plain text based file(s). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Tuesday, 2012-01-17, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:08:31 +0100 as excerpted: On Sunday, 2012-01-15, Dan Armbrust wrote: Hmm. Most software with autocompletion support does that. E.g. browsers, email programs. They also ask your permission first. Interesting. Neither Konqueror, Firefox, KMail or Thunderbird have asked me whether I wanted to store form data. Can you attach a screenshot of an application asking that? I don't know about asking, but it's a preferences setting. I was mainly puzzled by the fact that there are obviously applications asking for it versus just being a switchable preference. Would be interesting to see how that question looks like. There's also the private browsing or whatever the app decides to call it, mode, where everything (cookies, form completion, browsing history, etc) is forgotten, tho that normally has to be specifically toggled on. Indeed, hence the suggestion to pursue a form completion data handling similar to those examples. And they have an off switch. And, they definitely don't autocomplete fields which are know to contain private info - aka - passwords. Unless you go through another dialog telling it to remember the password. And they give you a menu option to clear it. And, most browsers now have a don't remember anything mode. Okular has none of those. Right, hence the recommendation for lobby for an implementation doing that. Actually, I wonder if this idea could get a bit more traction in view of the new ksecrets thing? Unlikely, this is just a new implementation of already existing functionality. The currently proposed KSecret API is also still a bit weird ;-) That's where I'd try to take it at this point, since ksecrets IS new and shiny and fascinating! =:^) Not from an application developer's point of view, sorry :-) However I don't see any facts supporting the claim of virus like behavior. Hiding users data without permission and without the users knowledge certainly is virus like behavior. No, virus behavior is attaching itself with the purpose of distribution and spreading. I don't think Okular is doing either. It seems he's using virus not in the technically narrow virus sense, but in the broader malware sense, inclusive of trojans, etc. If storing data to prefill form fields would be considered malware, people would have a hard time browsing the Internet since malware removal tools would have deinstalled all incarnations of browsers already. While okular really can't be considered a virus in the technically narrow sense (as you pointed out), certainly, the argument here is that it's behaving like a trojan, so if one accepts an extremely fuzzy definition of virus that really means something more like malware in general. I' am still not convinced. How does Okular behave like a trojan? What is the function it is pretending to do in order to hide the function it was designed to do and which function would that be? I would recommend lobbying for secure storage of form completion data like other form completing programs do. I doubt it would help. I wouldn't be so sure. Same here, particularly with the new ksecrets angle to explore. If I were an okular dev I think I might jump on this one just for the opportunity to play with that! =:^) My take is that asking for a more secure implementation of a feature, especially since there are role models for how that works, has magnitudes more chances of being considered worth while than asking for removable of a feature that is considered useful by others inspite of not ideal implementation. BTW, Kevin, any wild guess or informed opinion on how long kde4 will continue with the semi-annual feature updates, given kde5 in the wings? My guess is at least 4.10 but I find even 4.11 likely. An important fact here is that while during KDE4 times the split of names or terminology around KDE products was mostly cosmetic, KDE5 will very likely make actual use of the new disambiguation. The current work on KDE frameworks is not only a matter of making KDE libraries less interdependent, it also serves as a starting point for separation of development cycles. I.e. it is almost certain that there will be a release of KDE frameworks before any of the KDE application products are rebased onto them. Some application developers will of course starting to port earlier, e.g. when technolog preview releases become available, but that will largely depend on specifiy API usages of those apps (applications using fewer APIs or only very core APIs can expect fewer changes between a TP release and the final one). Of course as others have said, I expect kde5 to be a rather minor deal compared to kde4, and that it'll be handled rather better. An extremely important difference IMHO is that while there will be some changes in implementation (e.g. due
Re: [kde] [Okular-devel] [Bug 267350] filling out a PDF form saves data to some file i ~/.kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
On Monday, 2012-01-23, Dan Armbrust wrote: If storing data to prefill form fields would be considered malware, people would have a hard time browsing the Internet since malware removal tools would have deinstalled all incarnations of browsers already. One minor point. A PDF viewer is not web browser. Its much more like a document editor. That is how users expect it to behave - like other document editors. I disagree. A PDF viewer is primarily a viewer (might be a reason that's part of the name). Due to all the interactivity added to the web IMHO even more so than browsers. Even Adobe has a different product for editing PDFs. Their viewer is called Adobe Reader for a reason. Don't you suppose folks would find it a little unsettling if LibreOffice just silently saved anything you typed into it, without asking, in a hidden location, every time you even opened a document with it? Because that is exactly what Okular does. And what every browser and other programs with form like fields do. E.g. my email program saves recently used email addresses, I heard other email programs to that as well. I only brought the webbrowsers into the conversation to point out that other software that stores user data for auto-form filling always gives the user control over said data. And I brought web browsers into the converstation to point out that form completion is a widely accepted feature inspite of it requiring storing user input detached from the actual document. And I believe I wrote several times that their implementation of said feature should be considered a role model, i.e. allowing to clear cached input and/or allowing to deactivate. My take is that asking for a more secure implementation of a feature, especially since there are role models for how that works, has magnitudes more chances of being considered worth while than asking for removable of a feature that is considered useful by others inspite of not ideal implementation. And another point. Nobody has stepped forward to defend the current feature. And why would that be neccessary? Because the feature, in its current form is almost completely useless. The only possible thing I can think of that it does is not lose your work if you close Okular, go out to lunch, then come back and continue working. But storing your work - aka - filled form data for any significant amount of time? No. Its useless. Interesting. As I said I've not used Okular to fill forms but I find that feature to generally very useful when filling web forms. I am actually pretty certain I would find it useful for PDF forms as well. I have such a form for reimbursement request for certain expenses last time I had to use it Okular couldn't fill forms yet. I would certainly find it an improvement not to have to retype name and account details all the time. But I can see this being of limited use if you only ever fill forms only once in your life time. You don't even know where it stored it. Where does your browser store its completion data? How well documented is that location You can't back it up. Weird, I seem to have backed up my email and browser form completion data without actually knowing where these programs store them. But maybe Okular's data is so different that I would escape the same backup procedure that work for other programs. Time will tell. It doesn't even _tell_ you that it didn't actually put the data into the form. You won't find out until you send the document to a coworker, and they tell you it is blank. The only thing this feature will lead to is a horrible user experience. If you say so. My experience suggests that people do quite well understand that anything not explicitly saved does not alter an opened document. I believe that some people even rely on that, e.g. temporarily changing something (e.g. for printing) and then closing the program to ensure a kind of complete undo. That was why I suggested just shutting it off. Or redirecting it to /dev/null. That second suggestion makes little sense now, does it? But the maintainers of Okular refuse to even talk about it. Hence the suggestion of trying a less confrontational approach. Obviously approach used in the past didn't work out so well. So, here we are, 2 years later, with it still behaving in the same brain-dead way. From what I gathered it is behaving quite ok. Sure, it could do better on the security/privacy front by incorporating features found in browsers' implementations but it seems to do its purpose of putting text into empty fields based on previous user input to said fields. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [kde] error 4 in libsoprano.so.4.3.0
On Thursday, 2012-02-16, Duncan wrote: P Nikolic posted on Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:27:19 + as excerpted: I am having a lot of reports of segfaults with nepomukservices Feb 12 08:24:16 7-of-9 kernel: [233271.349534] nepomukservices[7638]: segfault at 1 ip 7fa8ce06deef sp 7fa8bca876b0 error 4 in libsoprano.so.4.3.0[7fa8ce029000+f9000] I have line after line of these reports in the message log and i see in a google search this is not new kde 4.4 i am on KDE 4.8 . Is this going to be fixed as it seems to cause problems at times or is this getting classed as a not kde problem One fix for that would be building kde without soprano, nepomuk, etc. That is not a fix but a workaround, i.e. it does not fix the actual problem but just hides it. And it unfortunately hides it in a way that makes it impossible to see when it got fixed. So doing that would require to continuously rebuild with and without stuff to test when the build with stuff works again. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] error 4 in libsoprano.so.4.3.0
On Wednesday, 2012-02-15, P Nikolic wrote: Hi . I am having a lot of reports of segfaults with nepomukservices Feb 12 08:24:16 7-of-9 kernel: [233271.349534] nepomukservices[7638]: segfault at 1 ip 7fa8ce06deef sp 7fa8bca876b0 error 4 in libsoprano.so.4.3.0[7fa8ce029000+f9000] Hmm, this doesn't tell a lot. Do you per chance have a backtrace of the crash? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE panel showing above some fullscreen applications
On Thursday, 2012-03-01, Dotan Cohen wrote: KDE panel showing above some fullscreen applications, namely Virtual Box in full-screen mode. I therefore set the panel as Windows Can Cover but this quickly becomes annoying with other applications. I therefore tried giving Virtual Box full-screen capability from the KDE Try always stay on top instead. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] using remote URL instead of cache
On Thursday, 2012-03-08, Daniel Barna wrote: Hi, I have created a wrapper script around an application so that it can handle remote files, and also directly save to the remote location (i.e. immediately upload to the remote location when it saves the file) The .desktop file contains this line: Exec=my-application %U indicating that this application can handle remote URLs. Nevertheless, when I open a remote file in dolphin with my application, the remote file is first downloaded to /var/tmp/kdecache-barna/... and this local file is given to my application, instead of the original remote URL. Can I change this behaviour somehow? Hmm, you are right that %U should have the desired effect. Can you try %u as well, i.e. indicating support for one URL? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] using remote URL instead of cache
On Thursday, 2012-03-08, Daniel Barna wrote: First of all, sorry for not replying to the original mail (i.e messing up the thread in the archive). I received it in a digest email, did not manage to figure out how to reply in a correct way. I tried with %u (updated the .desktop file, ran kbuildsycoca4). Same: the file is cached in /var/tmp/kdecache-barna/, and this file is given to my app. Thanks What kind of URL are you passing? I checked the code and it assumes that if not protocols are explicitly specified using the X-KDE-Protocols entry only http, https and ftp are working (for non-KDE apps). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kmail getting uppity again...
On Thursday, 2012-03-08, gene heskett wrote: I even used mc to move the empty folder it created as a subdir of the inbox folder to where I wanted it, one subdir level up, but kmail can't see it. You probably moved it into the wrong folder :) If you want yourfolder to appear below Inbox you need to move it to .Inbox.directory For example this mail will on my system go into a folder called kde which is a child of MailingLists which is a child of KDE which is a child of Local Folders. Its path looks like this /home/kevin/Mail/.KDE.directory/.Mailinglists.directory/kde Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kmail getting uppity again...
On Thursday, 2012-03-08, gene heskett wrote: Greetings folks; kmail 1.13.7 from the pclos repos. I joined a forum at Cadsoft, for eagle, their pcb design tool. It copies all forum posts to your subscription address, so I thought it would be nice to make an 'eagle' folder, to reside in the sorted list of folders I now have about 40 of. To save these messages in case I might be able to contribute, and make use of kmail's expiry rules was the main reason, they are 'no reply' messages, containing an html link to that forum thread. AFAIAC, they can be expired in a couple days. But kmail has now decided any new folders MUST be a subfolder of an existing selection again, as when I click on Local Folders, the folder creation stuff is grayed out, disabled. In both the file pulldown and the folders pulldown. Since I have the same version of KMail (on Debian though), I tried to reproduce. Indeed, if Local Folders is selected, the option for creating a new folder in the Folders menu is disabled. However, the respective option in the context menu (AKA right click menu) on Local Folders is enabled and successfully created a top level folder. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kmail getting uppity again...
On Thursday, 2012-03-08, gene heskett wrote: On Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:11:17 PM Kevin Krammer did opine: On Thursday, 2012-03-08, gene heskett wrote: Greetings folks; kmail 1.13.7 from the pclos repos. I joined a forum at Cadsoft, for eagle, their pcb design tool. It copies all forum posts to your subscription address, so I thought it would be nice to make an 'eagle' folder, to reside in the sorted list of folders I now have about 40 of. To save these messages in case I might be able to contribute, and make use of kmail's expiry rules was the main reason, they are 'no reply' messages, containing an html link to that forum thread. AFAIAC, they can be expired in a couple days. But kmail has now decided any new folders MUST be a subfolder of an existing selection again, as when I click on Local Folders, the folder creation stuff is grayed out, disabled. In both the file pulldown and the folders pulldown. Since I have the same version of KMail (on Debian though), I tried to reproduce. Indeed, if Local Folders is selected, the option for creating a new folder in the Folders menu is disabled. However, the respective option in the context menu (AKA right click menu) on Local Folders is enabled and successfully created a top level folder. Cheers, Kevin Error opening /home/gene/Mail/.inbox.directory/eagle; this folder is missing. That one I had nuked previously, with kmail. Next? Does the folder exist? Does it have cur/ new/ and tmp/ sub directories? Anyway, did using the context menu work for you as it did for me? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kmail getting uppity again...
On Friday, 2012-03-09, Duncan wrote: You may also want to try converting addressbooks. There's a csv2addressbook.pl script that mentions kmail, but I think I couldn't figure out how to get akonadi to give me a csv export, so that wouldn't work for me. Akonadi is a data access technology, backend stuff. What you are looking for is user interface, front end stuff. If data is accessed through Akonadi, than you'd be looking for a contact processing application with CSV output or export. E.g. KAddressBook. If course the data format of choice[1] for contact data interchange is VCard, so it might make more sense to look for an application capable of that. E.g. also KAddressBook. In either case obviously only necessary when the data is not stored in the target format already. Most common locally stored addressbooks are VCard based (either one file containing multiple contacts or one contact per file in a directory). Cheers, Kevin [1] a CSV row does not have any meaning attached to its columns, therefore export and import stage need to exchange the mapping of column to contact field separately. Often done by offloading that to the user, e.g. requiring the user to perform that mapping manually in an import user interface and/or through mapping files. Nowadays usually only necessary when dealing with simple text tools such as grep, sed or awk. Any high level scripting language has vcard manipulation facilities. -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin - changing directories over terminal
Hi Roman, On Thursday, 2012-03-22, Roman Janisch wrote: Hello, i have included the terminal into Dolphin. When i join a directory over the graphical interface, the terminal also joins this directory automatically. I would also like that when i join a directory over terminal that the graphical interface also join this directory. Is there any option? Unfortunately that is currently not possible. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156732 Sorry for my bad englisch, I'm from Austria :D. Pff, no excuse, I am Austrian too ;-) Now, if you had written sorry for my bad German, I'm from Austria I would have let that one count :-D Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin - changing directories over terminal
On Thursday, 2012-03-22, Roman Janisch wrote: Am 22.03.2012 21:35, schrieb Kevin Krammer: Unfortunately that is currently not possible. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156732 Thank you for your fast answer. Do you know on which version of KDE it will be possible? No idea, sorry. I guess you could follow that feature wish report to be notfied when the feature becomes avaiable. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Tell who did you PAY to include Akonadi?
On Saturday, 2012-03-31, Duncan wrote: Chances are if there's not one yet, there might be one on the way. Hopefully there's someone working on a nice, solid, non-akonadified qt-based mail client, too. http://www.betterinbox.com/ Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Tell who did you PAY to include Akonadi?
On Saturday, 2012-03-31, randomm...@mac.hush.com wrote: There is Linus Torwalds. And there is me. I was born at the same holiday as him. And I will be talking as he. Who did you PAY to include AKONADI? I can't speak for the other users on this list, but I for myself did not pay for it since I am using a gratis distribution (Debian). Who did you pay for it? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Tell who did you PAY to include Akonadi?
On Saturday, 2012-03-31, Sérgio Basto wrote: Specially wtf is documentation about akonadi ? why we don't know wtf is a mail dispatcher agent for example ? Software infrastructure such as libraries and helper processes are often only documented in developer levle documentation, e.g. API documentation, text files within the version control system used for the software's source code, within the source code itself. However, KDE, as a lot of other Free Software initiatives, is open for contributions from all people, not just developers. So if anyone wants to contribute user level documentation for any of those software components they are very welcome to do so. My understanding is that this is a rather straight forward process, basically just logging into userbase.kde.org and creating a new page or adding to an already existing one. For the question at hand my take would be that a mail dispatcher agent is a helper program (agent) that dispatches mail (most likely meaning e-mail). Assuming those two items are correct, a mail dispatcher agent would be a program that sends e-mails on behave of other programs. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Tell who did you PAY to include Akonadi?
On Saturday, 2012-03-31, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:45:12 +0200 as excerpted: On Saturday, 2012-03-31, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:53:55 +0200 as excerpted: http://www.betterinbox.com/ Yeah, they are a pretty new startup and obviously need to prioritze. I was only aware of them because they are users of *and* contributors to email related KDE libraries. I saw mention of that on the webpage. That /is/ nice! =:^) Indeed :) Btw, I believe that ksmtp is fully their work, so their contributions are more than just a couple of changes here and there! One thing I forgot to write previously is that since they seem to use IMAP and SMTP, the client will likely also work with other mail service providers. Being a company they probably want their official documentation to only list ones they have tested with but not meaning that it doesn't work with others. Something we will hopefully see more often when the frameworks effort makes individual components more visible as stand-alone entities (which they often already are, just not visible as such). FWIW, I don't believe I've mentioned it yet, but while I wasn't particularly impressed with the kde sc rename Yes, a concession towards the media, they like to have one name that addresses the whole portfolio :-/ The SC name is not needed if one refers to the products individually but the impression was that news outlets would not do that for KDE while regularily doing it for other vendors. I do like the idea as extended into (what I've read of) kde frameworks. Between the greater kde modularization and the migration of some current kdelibs functionality into qt5 (which is from what I read itself tilting toward more modularization) Qt4 is already quite modular, i.e. its libraries usually don't depend on each other (each one depending usually just in QtCore) and application developers can easily decide which ones to explicitly use. My understanding is that on top of that Qt5 modularization is mainly changing how Qt is built, e.g. specialized libraries having their own repositories and not needing to be switched on or off when building Qt. Not sure how much of a change in this direction we'll see from KDE Frameworks 5, but I am not following it that closely so that might be applicable as well. , it sounds to me like a universally required kdelibs will be much smaller, and that it's going to be a better deal for users, distro-maintainers and kde devs all three, with more dependency flexibility and a more explicitly specified dependency chain, which should lead to fewer end-user visible bugs and less work trying to get the splits right at the distro level. =:^) I am not sure it will make a difference for users since dependencies are handled automatically already anyway, but my guess is that the added flexibility will incur some extra cost for developers and especially packagers. Right now application developers already specify which frameworks their application is using, e.g. whether it needs KWallet. However it is not necessary to make the build system search for them individually, their presence is satisfied by just looking for kdelibs. This then extends into the packaging realm, i.e. a kdelibs package satisfying the need for any application using whatever component. Increased granularity will very likely make that a bit more complex, though I don't know whether it will be used at all levels (i.e. whether packagers will create individual package for components or just create a kdelibs package as usual). If the module releases are desynchronized as well, as I've read is being discussed, letting the modules evolve at their own rate, it could be a good thing. True, but I don't think this will be employed anytime soon, at least not for the traditional modules. Faster moving products like Plasma on the other hand might switch to separately released libraries sooner. FWIW, there's also the still fairly new trojita. Qt4-based, but IMAP-only, unfortunately, which isn't going to help for users with POP3 (and webmail, but ugh!) providers only. As I'm in that category... But I'd be tempted if my providers did IMAP. You could use it with a local IMAP server and use system level agents for mail gathering, e.g. fetchmail. I actually did think about it. But decided that was biting off more than I could chew at that point, especially as I wanted off kmail for 4.7.0, which was fast approaching when I was doing my research. Still, learning all about running my own mail servers, MTAs (mail transfer agents), etc, has for years been on my list of things I'd eventually like to try. As I've learned stuff like how to run and configure my own md/raid, ntpd, dns, etc, and crossed it off that list, mail gets closer and closer to the top... I can relate to that, I also never seem to find the time to look into these topics
Re: [kde] Tell who did you PAY to include Akonadi?
On Saturday, 2012-03-31, Felix Miata wrote: On 2012/03/31 11:13 (GMT+0200) Kevin Krammer composed: However, KDE, as a lot of other Free Software initiatives, is open for contributions from all people, not just developers. So if anyone wants to contribute user level documentation for any of those software components they are very welcome to do so. My understanding is that this is a rather straight forward process, basically just logging into userbase.kde.org and creating a new page or adding to an already existing one. That a mere mortal user _can_ contribute documentation doesn't account for the knowledge of what to write. I assumed that it was obvious that writing about some topic required some knowledge about it as well as some writing skills and a decent mastery of the target language. Of course somebody without the necessary skills or information, a mere mortal user as you put it, can't contribute that way. Doesn't make the contribution process less open. And personally I don't by this characterisation at all. Most people have decent writing skills and more knowledge than they might take credit for. It's the devs who know what capabilities and methods for utilizing them are being put in, not ordinary users, no matter what writing talents they have to offer. Creating something is not the only source of knowledge about that something. Granted Stephen Hawkins or other great physists are probably the primary source of information regarding current phyiscs theories, yet I doubt that any one of them wrote the wikpedia page on string theory. I doubt many users with the urge to contribute have the clairvoyance to know what the devs are thinking or the talent to read sources to figure out what to write. I doubt that as well. Yet magically way more complex things get written about on wikipedia. Maybe that's what those Nobel price winners do in their labs all day. Or maybe I am the only person who doesn't know all about string theory and everyone else could have easily written those wiki entries. A somewhat less plausible theory is that someone with interest in such an advanced topic had read some books or even research papers on that topic and created the wiki pages based on what they've learned. Maybe someone who wrote such a book or paper even bothered to correct mistakes or misunderstandings. But as you already showed, mere mortals don't read books or papers on advanced physics so it must have been those Nobel laureats. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE release cycles?
On Monday, 2012-04-02, dE . wrote: Is there any definitive release cycle? Like Debian has stable/unstable/testing etc... branches and has general rules and regulation on what has to be done at what time, regardless of the current release? The general release cycle is 6 months long, i.e. that is the time between changes in minor versions. At the begin of each cycle there is a free development phase, followed by a freeze phase which gets increasingly more strict. For example look at the release schedule for the current verison http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.8_Release_Schedule Each step has a description saying what can and can not be done from this point on. Each version's release schedule is drafted by the release team and usually accepted without objections [1]. Some things are additionally covered by more explicit policies, e.g. this one for update/patch releases: http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Minor_Point_Release_Policy Cheers, Kevin [1] in rare cases some dates get moved +/- one week if stakeholders feel that a period would otherwise be too short, e.g. due to holidays falling into the period -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE release cycles?
On Monday, 2012-04-02, John Woodhouse wrote: What would be of more interest to many is pure bug fix releases rather than new features. I for instance am running Platform Version 4.6.00 (4.6.0) release 6 That's the first release of the 4.6 series, which itself is one of the minor releases so it was allowed to have new features. Of course new features being allowes doesn't mean some were added or added in the sense of new functionality [1]. For example IIRC the current release series (4.8.x) is a no features added cycle for KDE Platform but I think KDE Workspaces got some. This, btw, also shows one of the problems of addressing the summary of all KDE products with a single name (currently KDE SC), since different products might have had different focus for a certain period. Cheers, Kevin [1] at the developer level things like restructuring are also counted as features, i.e. usually not allowed in update/patch releases. So it is actually more about how much can be changed and where (application code vs. library code). Sometimes user level features are a for-free consequence of a change like that, e.g. a change in image loading library because the current one resulted in too many bugs, can result in more formats being supported without that being the reason for the change. -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE release cycles?
On Thursday, 2012-04-05, Duncan wrote: dE . posted on Thu, 05 Apr 2012 07:23:16 +0530 as excerpted: So 'feature release' may mean (apart form including absolutely new features) - 1) Restructuring the code (better management). 2) New backend or changed backend which may increase or decrease bugs. And bug fixes mean fixing small time bugs in library or directly in the app. I'll let Kevin respond to that (tho it seems a reasonable summary to this non-dev, here), I agree. My guess is that the term feature release is used to indicate that this is not just the same thing again. From a developer's perspective it just means that restrictions on what you can do are less tight. There are still things that are not allowed, e.g. changing libraries in a way that makes them incompatible with applications, but on the application level you can do almost anything you want. but there is certainly one practical limitation of the bugfix releases as opposed to feature releases: * Strings are generally frozen during a six-month bugfix series. This is to help the various l10n (localization, basically, translation) efforts, but it DOES mean a tradeoff in terms of fixing things properly sometimes, if that would mean a UI and string change, even if the actual code fix is reasonably small and safe and would otherwise be allowed. Yes, very good observation. Sometimes an essential bug fix needs a string change, in which case the translators usually grant an exception [1]. This is actually one reason the distros tend to ship later bugfix releases instead of newer feature releases One additional thing might be that distributions themselves use a very similar development and release model so they have a better understanding what each step along the way carries with it. Early bug fix releases of a feature release are basically more like the public beta of proprietary software, i.e. the beta releases of Free Software products (and of distributions which do such things) are more like the interal or private beta. Understanding those circumstances can make it a lot easier to get a smooth upgrade experience. E.g. on my Kubuntu workstation I always perform version upgrades shortly before the next release comes out. The distribution's release marks the beginning of a public beta phase again, so the version right before that is the most reliable state. Distributions like RHEL or Debian/stable which have upgrade reliability as a main focus, do this waiting period internally, i.e. stop adding new versions of their upstream (Fedora, Debian/testing respectively) for a period before doing their release. Cheers, Kevin [1] once string freeze is active, the translators as the main stake holder of user visible text, can grant exceptions to the freeze if they think the benefit outweights the additional work. -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Global change to kontact shortcut.
On Thursday, 2012-04-05, John McMonagle wrote: I just edited the .kde/share/apps/kontact/local-kmail.rc and the changes seem to work. Can put this in a local-kmail.rc file in profiles? ... !DOCTYPE kpartgui !-- This file should be synchronized with kmmainwin.rc to provide the same menu entries at the same place in KMail and Kontact -- kpartgui version=432 name=kmail_part ActionProperties scheme=Default Action shortcut=refresh name=refresh_folder/ /ActionProperties /kpartgui . Or do I need everthing? I am not sure. For normal INI based KDE config files the single entry in its correct section would be enough. But I have no idea whether this applies here, so I am afraid you'll have to test. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Global change to kontact shortcut.
On Thursday, 2012-04-05, John McMonagle wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2012 12:09:00 pm Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2012-04-05, John McMonagle wrote: I just edited the .kde/share/apps/kontact/local-kmail.rc and the changes seem to work. Can put this in a local-kmail.rc file in profiles? ... !DOCTYPE kpartgui !-- This file should be synchronized with kmmainwin.rc to provide the same menu entries at the same place in KMail and Kontact -- kpartgui version=432 name=kmail_part ActionProperties scheme=Default Action shortcut=refresh name=refresh_folder/ /ActionProperties /kpartgui . Or do I need everthing? I am not sure. For normal INI based KDE config files the single entry in its correct section would be enough. But I have no idea whether this applies here, so I am afraid you'll have to test. Cheers, Kevin Kevin Not working :( $ kde4-config --path data /home/johnm/.kde/share/apps/:/etc/kde-profile/Power-User/share/apps/:/usr/s hare/kde4/apps/ I'm assuming data is the section. Put it here: /etc/kde-profile/Power-User/share/apps/local-kmail.rc Tried content above and the full file created by kontact. So it likely only uses the one in profiles if it does not exist in the user's directory :( Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
On Friday, 2012-04-06, John Woodhouse wrote: Another odd aspect is that I can only find all of them as root. I assume this is because the disk contains one of my old home directories. Searching as none root does bring some up though. My guess would be that file system access restrictions prevent applications running as your user from accessing those other directories. In which case I wouldn't call that odd because that's how the file system is expected to work. Bit worrying as I often view system files as an ordinary user - no chance of changing them unless I really intend to. I miss konq's file bookmarks for that sort of thing. Hmm, Konqueror's file bookmarks still work for me. Haven't used those in ages since I am only visiting a handful of directories regularily and I have added those to the Places toolbar/dock. But I just tried and I could add and follow a bookmark to a directory. It's very handy and saves remembering where they are. I don't suppose I can still use kate in that way either when I do want to modify one. No problems using Kate's bookmarks either, actually use them a lot. Mentioned on here because maybe subsequent releases have addressed these anomalies. Bookmarks have definitely always worked. I use Konqueror as my main browser and it doesn't make any difference locations as far as I can tell and all version's of Kate that I have been using over the years had working bookmarks since that feature was introduced. While use jargon might I also mention to Kevin that the real stake holders are the users. Devs don't really have the same relationship to their work. I think that largely depends on what kind of software we talk about and how it is developed. For Free and Open Source software it is almost guaranteed that a developer is also a user of that software. This is basically the number one reason people work on certain programs, i.e. needing the program yourself. There are only a few exceptions, e.g. developers of assistive technology might not need that assitance themselves, however then again some will work on those because they closely relate to a person who does. The two sets users and developers have such a huge overlap that one can safely approximate developers to be a subset of users. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
On Friday, 2012-04-06, John Woodhouse wrote: I'm trying to use Dolphin - the file manager as konq used to be Comments related to Dolphin Hmm, ok. But why not use Konqueror if you are looking for its features? Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] KDE release cycles?
On Saturday, 2012-04-07, dE . wrote: On 04/05/12 13:57, Kevin Krammer wrote: On Thursday, 2012-04-05, Duncan wrote: dE . posted on Thu, 05 Apr 2012 07:23:16 +0530 as excerpted: So 'feature release' may mean (apart form including absolutely new features) - 1) Restructuring the code (better management). 2) New backend or changed backend which may increase or decrease bugs. And bug fixes mean fixing small time bugs in library or directly in the app. I'll let Kevin respond to that (tho it seems a reasonable summary to this non-dev, here), I agree. My guess is that the term feature release is used to indicate that this is not just the same thing again. From a developer's perspective it just means that restrictions on what you can do are less tight. There are still things that are not allowed, e.g. changing libraries in a way that makes them incompatible with applications, but on the application level you can do almost anything you want. but there is certainly one practical limitation of the bugfix releases as opposed to feature releases: * Strings are generally frozen during a six-month bugfix series. This is to help the various l10n (localization, basically, translation) efforts, but it DOES mean a tradeoff in terms of fixing things properly sometimes, if that would mean a UI and string change, even if the actual code fix is reasonably small and safe and would otherwise be allowed. Yes, very good observation. Sometimes an essential bug fix needs a string change, in which case the translators usually grant an exception [1]. This is actually one reason the distros tend to ship later bugfix releases instead of newer feature releases One additional thing might be that distributions themselves use a very similar development and release model so they have a better understanding what each step along the way carries with it. Early bug fix releases of a feature release are basically more like the public beta of proprietary software, i.e. the beta releases of Free Software products (and of distributions which do such things) are more like the interal or private beta. 'Early bug fix' release? I thought that bug fix releases were the minor versions like 4.8.1, or 4.8.2 etc... Yes. What I wanted to say was early as in x.y.1 and x.y.2 as opposed to late as in x.y.5 Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
if it has happened but that would be a useful step up from Konq. I also thought that the general idea was to replace konq with dolphin. It is more an addition, i.e. having a file managment only application available additional to the graphical shell Konqueror. Konqueror with all its modes and settings specific for certain modes is mainly addressing the needs of a type of user who like to have a wide range of options at hand at all times. Other users prefer simple tools even it that means not being able to do things a certain way. One of the options to solve this was to create another Konqueror mode that, when activated, would lock down some of the application's capabilities. In the end the option to create a new and dedicated application was chosen instead for various reasons (additional and very committed developers, not needing to add complexity to an already quite complex application, etc). The replacing part of the whole change only applies to the default setting, i.e. which of the two application's is registered as the default file manager. This registration can of course be changed or Konqueror can be used by choice if it fits a user's workflow or mental patterns better. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Dolphin search anomalies KDE 4.6.0
On Saturday, 2012-04-07, John Woodhouse wrote: Have to forgive me here Keven but having checked the 2 konq looks to be the same as dolphin and just presented in a different way but dolphin has a file search and konq has bookmarks and I can open text files into another tab with it. The two programs use the same view engine for displaying and interacting with directories and files, however everything around that is diffferent. E.g. Konqueror uses a standard browser address input while Dolphin uses breadcrum hints by default. Konqueror can do vertical and horizontal view splits, separate views can be linked (changing path in one changes path in all linked ones), etc., while Dolphin has all kinds of useful sidebars or docks. File bookmarks don't work in my case. Do they in any version? I have my doubts. Work fine here: konqueror --version Qt: 4.7.4 KDE: 4.6.5 (4.6.5) Konqueror: 4.6.5 (4.6.5) I tried a directory bookmark, one for a text file and one for an image file. All worked as expected. As to the 2 being really different I think you must have your tongue in your cheek really. They share code for some things, but they have a different philosophy on the general UI. I have because I'm not convinced konq could ever bookmark files else why did I use kate. Where you add your bookmarks might depend on the workflow associated with the bookmarked things. E.g. if your workflow it to start Kate and then browse for the files to edit, then having the file bookmarked in Kate fits better than bookmarking in in Konqueror. If your workflow is to browse to the file using a file manager and then start Kate by clicking on the file, bookmarking the directory the file is in would probably be more efficient. In 2 modes actually normal and su mode. What would be super cool (60's jargon) would to be to add file bookmarks that simply went to them and highlighted them where ever they are Yes, that sounds useful. Currently a bookmarked file is opened, i.e. the bookmark works like clicking the file, not just selecting it. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Global ktrash settings
On Monday, 2012-04-23, John McMonagle wrote: On Monday 23 April 2012 11:26:48 am Kevin Krammer wrote: On Monday, 2012-04-23, John McMonagle wrote: I want to set default trash settings. I tried putting the following in /etc/kde4/ktrashrc . [$HOME/.local/share/Trash] Days=7 LimitReachedAction=1 Percent=10 UseSizeLimit=true UseTimeLimit=true ... Does not work :-( Suspect it does not like $HOME like this. Hmm, I am not sure configuration sections can be made shell environment variable dependent. But you could try [$HOME/.local/share/Trash][$e] Cheers, Kevin Adding [$e] did not help :-( Ah, too bad. Seems it is only supported for config entries, not sections. You could try modifying user's configs using the config update tool http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tools/Using_kconf_update Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Global ktrash settings
On Monday, 2012-04-23, John McMonagle wrote: On Monday 23 April 2012 11:54:44 am Kevin Krammer wrote: On Monday, 2012-04-23, John McMonagle wrote: On Monday 23 April 2012 11:26:48 am Kevin Krammer wrote: On Monday, 2012-04-23, John McMonagle wrote: I want to set default trash settings. I tried putting the following in /etc/kde4/ktrashrc . [$HOME/.local/share/Trash] Days=7 LimitReachedAction=1 Percent=10 UseSizeLimit=true UseTimeLimit=true ... Does not work :-( Suspect it does not like $HOME like this. Hmm, I am not sure configuration sections can be made shell environment variable dependent. But you could try [$HOME/.local/share/Trash][$e] Cheers, Kevin Adding [$e] did not help :-( Ah, too bad. Seems it is only supported for config entries, not sections. You could try modifying user's configs using the config update tool http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tools/Using_kconf_update Cheers, Kevin Kevin Never saw update tool before. It is normally only used by application developers when they change their config handling in certain ways that requires change of already existing config. Are there any more examples? Most old applications should have several such file and associated scripts installed. Look into subdirectory kconf_update in paths output by this command kde-config4 --path data A global setting would be easier but that should be safer than running a script through the user config files. I do agree of course, however since our attempts at making an appropriate default failed I thought 'll provide you with other options. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Issues about dcop
On Saturday, 2012-05-12, hbprotoss wrote: Hello everybody. I'd like to ask whether dcop tool is not available on KDE 4.8 any more? I want to change wallpapers automatically, but no suitable tools have been found. I checked the wikipedia, found DCOP protocol, and it says dcop command-line tool can help, but I can't find it on KDE 4.8. DCOP (desktop communication protocol) was KDE's means of communicating between processes during the KDE 3 series. In order to facilitate more collaboration with other Free Software desktop projects, the version 4 series switched to D-Bus which then even got support in Qt4 itself. There are several D-Bus command line tools available, e.g. dbus-send (from the core D-Bus package) or qdbus (from Qt, package qdbus). The latter has a similar behavior like the dcop command line tool, e.g. invoking it without any argument shows the known D-Bus connections (programs using D-Bus) and so on. There is also an UI tool calls qdbusviewer, package qt4-dev-tools, which makes exploring available interfaces easier than repeatedly calling the commandline tool. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] How to setup dual monitor in kde?
On Monday, 2012-05-28, dE . wrote: A workaround is to use KDE is Debian stable, that way you can ensure there're no regressions atleast. Or Debian Testing or Unstable for newer versions of some packages. Been doing that successfully since about 2001 IIRC so I wouldn't call it a work around. But I guess it matters less which distribution one uses but more that one understands how the distributions package selection and upgrade process works. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Plasma-desktop becoming very slow
On Friday, 2012-06-08, Stephan Diestelhorst wrote: Hi, after leaving my system running for a while with virtuoso-t eating some CPU, virtuoso-t eventually finishes and everything is fine. However, although the CPU load stays very low, plasma-desktop is *very* slow. Clicking on the virtual desktops in the bar will switch the desktop after sevaral minutes(!), and the list of windows is not really updated. Also, Alt + F2 takes approx. 45 secs to open the krunner dialog. Switching desktops with Ctrl + F1 is fast and the respective applications work fine, too. This is on Kubuntu 11.10 with KDE 4.8.2. Any ideas how to fix this? I think I see this occasionally, usually after a tray icon got animated for a longer time. Restarting plasma-desktop works for me, i.e. I type this on a shell kquitapp plasma-desktop and then ALT+F2 and type plasma-desktop Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Usage of KDE and MY persona
On Monday, 2012-06-18, Hendrik Sollich wrote: Hello KDE, I read a bunch of news about the discussion going on about the improvements to kde for people like Raj and Carla and that things were going to become more useful. After what happend at gnome I've become a bit anxious about improving usability so I'm just asking for some reassurance. Will I be able to use KDE5 the way I'm using KDE4 today? Meaning: n-by-n workspaces, panels, window-rules and most of all 'configurability'? I am pretty sure about that. KWin, which is responsible for virtual workspaces and window-rules, might change how it is interacting with the lower parts of the stack, e.g. adding support for wayland, but I don't think there are any plans to remove things like virtual desktops as long as the base technologies allow such things to be implemented (which as far as I know they do). Virtual desktops, and to a lesser extent window specific rules, are widely used in the KDE contributor community. I can't think of any KDE person I've met who was not using multiple virtual desktops to organize application windows. As far as I understand, the people working on KDE workspace products consider activities to be a complimentary technology to virtual desktops, i.e. something that can be used in concert with desktop switching. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Qt version of the latest kde version for windows
On Friday, 2012-06-29, Daniel Kreuter wrote: Hello guys, does someone know which version of Qt is used by the windows version of KDE 4.8.0?? The problem I have is, I want to use Poppler in my Qt program (Qt 4.8.2), but there seems to be a problem with the QtGui4.dll of my Qt 4.8.2 and Poppler of the KDE Win package. Might be better to ask on kde-wind...@kde.org Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Help Gimp wont run at all any more
On Saturday, 2012-08-11, John Woodhouse wrote: On the manual addition of applications to the start menu can some one also explain the difference between some app etc %F and %U. Most use %F but ufraw uses %U. %F means that the program can receive a list of files as program arguments, %U means it can receive a list of URLs. Since you are working on local files there is no difference (local files can always be handled by applications capable of handling URLs). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] How Can I change wallpaper from CLI?
On Thursday, 2012-09-06, Duncan wrote: I'd use the dbus interface (probably ultimately dbus-send from the script) to org.kde.ActivityManager to get the current activity, then check $KDEHOME/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc[1] for that activity, looking for the appropriate wallpaper sections (note that there may be multiple desktop containers if the user has multiple monitors, each with its own wallpaper and thus wallpaper sections, but at least as of kde 4.9, all part of the same activity) and editing them accordingly. Then I'd make the appropriate dbus call to either plasma-desktop or to kded to trigger a config-changed event so it would reread the file. Apparently triggering config reparsing wouldn't be sufficient since the config is not processed again. In any case, the thread spawned on the developer lists mentions that there is a D-Bus interface for that kind of task in the works. [1] The $KDEHOME path defaults to ~/.kde as shipped by kde, if the variable isn't set, but many distros change that to ~/.kde4, and of course the user can set $KDEHOME in kde's environment to change it to whatever filesystem location they wish. So if you're aiming for a specific distro you can use their path if the var isn't set, or check and see which one of the two exists if aiming for wider audience. kde4-config --localprefix or kwriteconfig when manipulating KDE config files from commandline or script. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Preview filters
Hi, On Monday, 2012-10-08, Waldemar Villamayor-Venialbo wrote: Hello, Where can I find documentation about the APIs required to create a preview filters for some image formats not supported by Dolphin out of the box? E.g. for browsing old NASA's CDs whith propietary image formas... (Of course the file' format specs. are incuded with the CDs.) You probably have to implement a Qt Image IO plugin [1] and associated reader classes. But to be sure I suggest you also ask on the KDE file manager development list [2] Cheers, Kevin [1] http://doc.qt.digia.com/latest/qimageioplugin.html [2] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kfm-devel -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Folder refresh needed
On Monday, 2012-10-15, Duncan wrote: Klaus Slott posted on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:17:06 +0200 as excerpted: I had troubles with several things, especially kmail: KMail encountered a fatal error and will terminate now. Failed to fetch the resource collection So I decided to try a clean start and removed everything that looked kde accosiated:: ~/.config/akonadi ~/.config/kde.org ~/.config/qtcurve ~/.config/qtcurve.gtk-icons ~/.local/share/akonadi/ ~/.kde4 ~/.kde logging in again I was now able to make Kmail work I see you have the original issue fixed (good thing as I'd have had no clue). Just a heads-up. KMail isn't the same old reasonably stable app that it used to be; that I used for nearing a decade. It still is. Using it every day, for business and private messaging. New kmail (aka kmail2) is akonadified (using akonadi as the backend), now, and many people (including me) found the new version considerably less stable than the old, losing mail, etc. Indeed, but since this is a different program it cannot affect the stability or reliability of traditional KMail version. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Folder refresh needed
On Tuesday, 2012-10-16, Duncan wrote: Kevin Krammer posted on Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:44:45 +0200 as excerpted: Just a heads-up. KMail isn't the same old reasonably stable app that it used to be; that I used for nearing a decade. It still is. Using it every day, for business and private messaging. No disrespect intended as you've been helpful to me, but IMO for a normal user, that's a technical difference without a practical application. Think about it. Why would people use kmail if not for mail? If that mail is lost or there's complications with the local database storage thereof, it doesn't matter if it's kmail's fault, the backend's fault, or the fault of some malware holding it for ransom, to the user, it's lost mail, or otherwise unexpected mail behavior (mail or address resources unavailable, etc). That wasn't what I intended to convey. My point was that there are two versions of KMail. A new one based on components that allow alternative user interfaces for different types of workflows and the traditional one. The latter is as stable as it has always been, perfectyl suited for people with loads of email. It is, if I remember correctly, even available as a company maintained [1] Enterprise build. Cheers, Kevin [1] By Intevation GmbH, Germany, again IIRC -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Where to set KDEDIRS and KDEHOME?
On Wednesday, 2012-10-24, adrelanos wrote: As a distro... http://userbase.kde.org/Session_Environment_Variables tells $HOME/.kde/env/path.sh should be used for setting environment variables. (/etc/rc.local is ignored) Add .kde/env/path.sh to /etc/skel? As a distro you might want to set them in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ or /etc/environment You don't need to set KDEHOME if you are OK with built-in patch ($HOME/.kde, see kde4-config --localprefix) Same for KDEDIRS, you only need to set this if you want to add additional search paths. See kde4-config --path type e.g. kde4-config --path data Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] How to use a bluetooth headset?
On Thursday, 2012-10-25, Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote: Hello, I have a bluetooth headset which I can use perfectly well with my Android devices, but can't make it work with KDE. The KDE bluetooth application sees the headset, pears and connects to it, but the sound is still sent to the speakers even when the headset is connected. No sound is heard through the headset, only through the speakers. KMix and SystemSettings does not seem to have any option to direct the sound to the headset. When I connect a wired headset, it is automatically used by the system (and the speakers are automatically turned off). How do I make KDE use the bluetooth headset? As far as I understand this is part of the things that PulseAudio takes care of. However, since I haven't had the need myself yet, I don't know which interface for controlling PulseAudio would currently be the recommended one. The Veromix Plasma applet might be able to do this. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] dolphin-plugins - Perforce support
Hi Martin, On Monday, 2012-10-29, Martin Andersen wrote: Hi, This is my first mail to this list, I have been a happy kde user for a couple of years and finally made my first piece of kde code. I have been using the svn and git plugins for Dolphin. Recently I have started to use Perforce so I decided to develop a Perforce plugin for Dolphin. The plugin is now functional. It can show the local state of the files and there are action menus for most of the simple use cases. If anybody is interested in the plugin I would like to share the code and discuss if you have any suggestions. Very cool! I suggest you re-send to the kfm-de...@kde.org mailing list (KDE File Manager development). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Wrap Firefox in KDE app?
On Wednesday, 2012-10-31, Dotan Cohen wrote: So it seems that --icon is only a suggestion and that the application can freely ignore it. Even worse, it seems that kstart does not support the --icon flag anyway. My guess for the latter is that kstart --icon refers to the icon kstart itself would use (kstart most likely being a KDE application, hence the option shared with other KDE apps). Since kstart exits very quickly, its icon is never visible. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Wrap Firefox in KDE app?
On Wednesday, 2012-10-31, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Kevin Krammer kram...@kde.org wrote: My guess for the latter is that kstart --icon refers to the icon kstart itself would use (kstart most likely being a KDE application, hence the option shared with other KDE apps). Since kstart exits very quickly, its icon is never visible. Sounds reasonable. Is there any way to wrap firefox in a KDE application that will show an icon of the user's choosing? KDE 3's taskbar would let the user set a custom icon per application, but we don't have that in KDE4. Unfortunately I have no idea, sorry. Maybe a feature request for some workspace component (KWin probably, sounds a bit like what its window rules could do). Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] kmail question
On Wednesday, 2012-11-14, Harald Baumgartner wrote: Hi, i'm using kmail since years and get my emails in /var/mail/userid Newest kmail doesn't support this, only imap, pop It should support that very similar to how the previous version did, i.e. using an MBox account. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] passive, non-intrusive progress bar?
On Saturday, 2012-11-10, adrelanos wrote: If you have the option of implementing your solution in a scripting language with D-Bus support, then it should be possible to access that part of the desktop directly. The D-Bus name for the service is org.kde.JobViewServer, but I am not entirely sure how it is being used (I only had a cursory glance at the code in kdelibs that uses it). Looks quite difficult. There is very few reference about org.kde.JobViewServer on google. Yeah, probably would require to study code already using it. I saw someone already voiced interest in implementing that, so maybe we'll see support for that in kdialog at some point. Can I ask what kind of progress you would visualize like that? If it is any file or download/upload operation you might be able to do them through kioclient, which would lead to those progress notifications automatically. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Has the KDE Social/Semantic Desktop been worth the hassle to anyone?
On Saturday, 2012-11-17, Jerome Yuzyk wrote: With all the hassles added by Akonadi and Nepomuk and Strigi for some higher social/semantic desktop purpose, does anyone actually _use_ the stuff? Ok, this is basically the second part of [1] Similar to how Strigi is tasked with providing meta data in a uniform way across a wide spectrum of file formats, Akonadi is tasked with providing data access in a uniform way across a wide spectrum of data storage formats and locations. Also similar to Strigi, this involves libraries which can also be used directly by applications, but, again, are most often used indirectly through a service. As I wrote in my reply to Duncan's reaction to [1], KDE developers will often prefer a service based approach due to some qualities and advantages inherent in it and being a time proven option widely used on Unix like operating systems. As a matter of fact it is no conicidence that both major providers [2] of Free Software infrastructure for end user programs are using that approach while direct backend access is employed by stand-alone application providers. Anyway, the topic at hand is the relation ship of this particular technology with semantic desktop and the point is that its usefulness and goals are independent of that. I see Georg has just explained that as well, but I guess I can't hurt to repeat: semantic desktop builds upon technologies such as Akonadi and Strigi, but they serve a wider range of purposes than just that or in other words, semantic desktop is one of their additional usage scenarios. Cheers, Kevin [1] http://lists.kde.org/?l=kdem=135315899718567w=2 [2] KDE and GNOME -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Has the KDE Social/Semantic Desktop been worth the hassle to anyone?
On Saturday, 2012-11-17, Rafa Griman wrote: Hi :) On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Anne Wilson cannewil...@googlemail.com wrote: Even that doesn't appeal to me, but looking at the number of facebook and twitter users, it probably would appeal to many. I agree. That's why I think it is a good idea and that maybe if there was the possibility to activa/deactivate it, there would have been less hassle and grumbling. Semantic desktop is a deactivatable option in the KDE settings UI. One can even turn of file indexing individually. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Has the KDE Social/Semantic Desktop been worth the hassle to anyone?
On Sunday, 2012-11-18, Duncan wrote: I read something from one of the kde devs, I'm not sure where or which dev, but... They mentioned that the reason the semantic desktop stuff got as BIG a push as it did, back with early kde4, was that one of the European governments had sponsored the work with a grant (they said which government but I'm USian so forgot that detail, IIRC it was primarily city or region, tho, not national, tho national might have been match- funding). It (Nepomuk) was an EU research project. The KDE part is actually just one of several research deliveries, called Nepomuk-desktop IIRC: One of the participating companies, Mandriva, was responsible for that part of the work and hired Sebastian Trüg to do it. He's now working for the company producing Virtuoso but doesn't have much time for work on Nepomuk-KDE. Fortunately, Vishesh Handa, one of KDE's Google Summer of Code students who worked on Nepomuk-KDE as part of GSOC, took over maintainership a while ago and is now (very recently) employed by Blue Systems to work on Nepomuk-KDE pretty much full time. Some of the non-code research deliverables, e.g. semantic ontologies, are being used by other projects as well, e.g. tracker. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
Re: [kde] Has the KDE Social/Semantic Desktop been worth the hassle to anyone?
On Sunday, 2012-11-18, Duncan wrote: It ends up being a distro QA issue, but really, the problem is above the distro. I've seen at least one kde dev mention that had they known about mysql when they chose it as the first stable backend, what they know about it now, the choice may well have been different, even tho the reason mysql was first was because it was more ready than the others (sqlite, the newer default, wasn't properly thread-safe at the time, work had to be done to make it so, postgresql has AFAIK remained experimental the whole time, I'm not sure why, but it apparently has issues that aren't easy to fix, virtuoso was AFAIK very new and kde was the first big project to use it like that...). SQLite has always been thread-safe but it used (and I think still uses) a global lock do achieve that, meaning all access has to be serialized (one after the other). The other engines can do concurrent access if the operations are independent enough. So it is more a matter of throughput than correctness. Virtuoso would be a very obvious choice for an Akonadi setup running as part of a KDE setup, however when last tried it or rather its SQL driver still wasn't up to the job. For this and other similar reasons, had they the chance to do it over again, had they known about all these mysql complications, they'd have likely waited until sqlite got its thread-safe updates that have allowed it to be the new default. As far as I know the default has remained unchanged as far as upstream is concerned. Naturally any party in the chain from software vendor to user could have decided to use a different default and if so has have taken care to ensure a proper migration path. But, there's another wrench thrown into the works for akonadi and mysql as well. Unlike most of the rest of kde, where system defaults don't normally get written to the user config, only changes FROM the system defaults, in the akonadi case, it writes the backend used into the user configuration as well. This is true for KDE programs because of their use of KDE's config handling framework KConfig. Akonadi, not being a KDE application, doesn't have access to that and the Qt configuration handling system, QSettings, doesn't have that capability. Which creates a problem, because normally, system upgrades don't touch the user's home dir or the user configuration details stored therein. So guess what. When the upstream and most distros default switched to the now ready sqlite backend, many users continued using the old mysql backend, along with its more complicated issues, because the backend choice is written into the user's own configuration, even if they never changed it from the system default. So the system default changes, but the user specified configuration doesn't change with it. Normally that's a good thing, because the user specified configuration was a change FROM the default, thus something the user did deliberately. Unfortunately in this case... If a switch in default backend would have to propagate to the user installations, this would require some changes in the user home directories as well (moving stuff from one database to another). I am quite certain that the upstream default regarding backend hasn't changed, so any distribution changing the default will either have deployed a migration process of some sort anyway or leave existing setups untouched by choice in order not to have to. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.
