RE: [lace] Miss Channer's mat
I have a copy of the original book - published by Methuen Co, 36 Essex Street, W.C., London in 1900. However, the mat does not appear in that book. A photo of it appears in In the Cause of English Lace, which was published by Ruth Bean in 1991. The mat was designed by Miss Channer, but the sample was worked by Mrs. Dixon of Clapham, Bedford, at one of the classes of the Bedford Technical Institute, c. 1926, and is held by the Cecil Higgins Art Gallery, Bedford. Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia) --- Marcie Greer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember the discussion too, but I can't remember what was said. What we need to know is when the pricking was first made and if it is early enough, that is sufficient. Otherwise we need to know when Miss Channer died. Before a certain date (around about 1900, I think), the point at which the original was created is used, after that date the death of the author is used as the starting point for counting the years till it is in the public domain. Miss Channer's relatives probably hold the copyright to her pricking and any attending materials she herself made and Ruth Bean may only have a copyright on their printed form of the material (it would be interesting to find out if they were even the original printers of the book.) Does someone on the list have the information from the front of the book? If you wouldn't mind re-posting, some of us can keep an archived copy of the info this time around. This question comes up about once a year. Also, aren't there are two methods for working the mat... one Beds and one Bucks? I have a vague memory of this being discussed as well. Marcie Original message: Hi, Vivienne and others, - I have a very vague recollection (and I may be wrong) that the copyright on the original Miss Channer's mat ran out, but that Ruth Bean got a copyright because there was no pattern and she got someone to draw the pattern out and make a pricking and pattern, which makes that particular pattern her copyright material. But someone else could do the same thing - get the original and make it into a pricking and a pattern, I mean. All you would have to do is draw it out and make the pricking and keep records of the process so that you could prove you didn't just copy Ruth Bean's version. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://search.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Search - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] The Mat Controversy
Adele wrote: (By the way, the Australian and Canadian legislation is that copyright ends 50 years after the end of the year in which the creator died, so The Mat was copyright-free at the beginning of 2000) Then why don't the Australian Lace Guild a Canadian lace guild republish the pattern for sale in these countries (preferably with permission from Ruth Bean in the UK? Pene Piip [EMAIL PROTECTED] N.E.L.G. Newsletter Editor Formerly from Sydney, Australia. Now residing in Groton, MA, USA. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: I forgot to mention...Milanese workshop
On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 10:21 US/Eastern, Celtic Dream Weaver (Sherry) wrote: I will be in Ithaca,New York and will be taking the Milanese Workshop Sat-Monday. [...] Is there anyone else on the list that will be in this workshop too... *Not* the same workshop, but I got into the Polychrome de Courselles (Pompi Parry), so I'll be in Ithaca too, at the same time. I *hope* (long story, details on chat) g My 2 roomies are both Arachneans also, so that's 4 already. Hope there'll be more, and that we'll have a get-together... - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Copyright -- again :)
On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 10:25 US/Eastern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon)wrote: I had the interesting experience of writing an article for the IOL Bulletin and later receiving a request to translate it into German for publication in a German Lace Mag. I had no idea what the legal status of this request was. I had no objection to it being republished. In fact, I was flattered. I asked the IOL and they had no idea whether their permission was required, but said they had no objection. In general, for anything you publish in IOLI, you keep the copyright (probably because, while you get a thank you of some sort, you do not get *paid*. I wonder if I should be reporting my extra copies of the Bulletin and/or the thank-you bobbins to IRS, and pay taxes on them???), and their permision to republish (in English or any other language) is not needed, if someone else wants the article/pattern. Competition entries are a bit of a gray area, because, when you enter, you sign the permission for first dibs to go to IOLI -- the pattern/etc is still yours, and you can publish it anywhere you want, but only if IOLI is not interested in publishing it *first*. I always assume that anything I send for a publication in a magazine, is free for all, without any copyright issues involved; if Robin wants to copy a pattern for every member of her guild, I have no objection -- quite the opposite :) I used to get asked permission about reprints/copies, and responding was more trouble than it was worth, so then I tried putting in something like feel free to make copies, but give credit to me for designing with the patterns. I should have added: and let me know you've done so, as my reward; a pattern got reproduced, I only heard about it from third parties -- a lot of bad feelings all around :) I was also -- once -- asked to *sell* a pattern, and the woman had a hard time taking a no for the answer. It was the Swan (what else g). I told her it had been published in IOLI -- her customers don't subscribe to it (she was Swedish, I think)... I told her it was available to anyone who wanted it on a website -- her customers didn't know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter the tax quagmire for the cut I might be expected to get, and she gave up pestering me... For all I know, she'd found the website, printed it off, and is peddling the pattern to the un-clued. If she does, I think I'd be irritated a bit to learn about it, though it would be an irrational feeling -- I don't mind people copying for their (and/or ther friends') use; I don't mind people making up a pattern in a 100 copies to sell (either for personal profit or for the benefit of a charity), so why stick at someone copying a pattern to sell? All I can say is that, to me, it would not be honourable... To change the subject *slightly*... In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the 15-20% of skew, when it came to an original (artistic) design... Well, I know at least one person who'd done it *mathematically* :) Bought a cross-stitch kit, which depicted a sail-boat on a calm sea. Changed the *direction* in which the pennant was flying (so, OK, it no longer made sense from the *physics* perspective; but there's such a thing as artistic extension g), and entered it as an original design in a county crafts fair. Won, too, I seem to remember. And very proud of herself, for being so clever -- between the boat and the sea, the area of the pennant was well above the 15%... Takes all kinds :) Perhaps the IOL is missing a bet. It should have Tom write a regular feature called Copyright Corner Not a bad idea. Though Uncle Tom's Corner seems an inescapable title for the column and I doubt he'd like it :) - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: copyright and copying magazines
Sorry for the PS; ought to have included it with my previous, long, message... On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 15:07 US/Eastern, Jane Partridge wrote: As I understand it - in terms of British copyright, anyway, in this sort of case the author/designer holds copyright to the article/pattern but the magazine holds copyright on the layout. I used to copy my own patterns from magazines, when I got requests for them. Don't do it any more, because copying prickings/diagrams from my own notes and printing the text straight from the 'puter gives more accurate results, esp in the cases of the European/US conflict in paper size. It hadn't even occured to me that, by copying from a magazine, I was contravening copyright laws, even though I was copying my own patterns... Almost enough to stop one from being too public-spirited, innit? g - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] RE: Channer's Mat-boring-challenging etc
Gidday Vivienne and all, the people on this soap box have never seen the mat, second it is quite boring, third they couldn't do it and finally the only thing that excites people is the number of bobbins! As someone planning to make Miss Marple's Bathmat very soon (VBG) I have to disagree. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but whilst you personally may find it a boring piece, I consider it to be 1) very pretty and 2) a challenge. Whilst the individual components of the mat may not themselves be extremely difficult, the challenge lies in negotiating and handling such a huge amount of bobbins whilst at the same time concentrating on making the lace tension even and getting a great end product. I will be very proud of myself if I can do this - to me it is the ultimate Floral Bucks challenge, perhaps because no one else has come up with something as large complex? so this is all we have to aim at. I think that the experience of making this piece of lace will make me better at understanding the intricacies of floral point ground work, and give me more confidence to design complex pieces myself. I think this is a good thing - perhaps if more of us made the mat, there would be more lacemakers with the skills to design similar-in-complexity/size lace designs produced. There currently isn't a lot to choose from is there (well not that I've come across). As far as they couldn't do it, well discussions over the last few days have shown that there are many lacemakers that like to do exactly what lace tutors tell them they can't! There you go everyone - take up Vivienne's challenge and prove that we all CAN do it (provided someone can get around all this copyright stuff!). One day we can have a Bathmat Display. Michelle Long an Aussie living in South Africa (who was was lucky enough to buy my Ruth Bean pricking a few years ago when there were still copies available) Getting back to my packing now.how can there be so much stuff to fit in two suitcases (more craft things and presents for teenage children than clothes at the moment) Ian Chelle Long +27 35 788 0777 - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] challange
I can only agree with, I think it was, ?Aurelia who said why not take a look at the Sivewright/Pope book published by Springetts which includes some really beautiful 'fine' Bucks, which the Channer mat is not unless it is reduced considerably, when I made it 10 years ago I used a Mimosa 60 thread with a No 8 gimp. Diana (Northamptonshire, UK) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
Tamara, You do have a way with wordsAnd, we're going to miss you at Sweet Briar in October... B.A. Tamara P. Duvall wrote: -- her customers didn't know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter the tax quagmire for the cut I might be expected to get, and she gave up pestering me... Not a bad idea. Though Uncle Tom's Corner seems an inescapable title for the column and I doubt he'd like it :) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
You are right, Tamara, I don't think the name has a ring I would want to be associated with. Besides there can't be that many legal questions to lace. Your reasoning is sound about the tax quagmire. It is not worth it. Unless you can show a profit every five years it is considered a hobby anyway (horse farms are 7 years). I have been a member of the Tax Court bar for 26 years. There are so few of you, compared to the population, that there is not ever going to be much of a profit in publishing anything. I don't even think that hour for hour you could make minimum wage making lace. It is a great hobby, keeps DW out of the bars and off the street, and is far less expensive than shopping. My advice to you all, is to forget these meaningless legalities, enjoy what you are doing, and spend more time lacing and less time worried about the rules of the game. Keep on Lacing, Tom Andrews - Original Message - From: Tamara P. Duvall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arachne lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:23 AM Subject: [lace] Copyright -- again :) On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 10:25 US/Eastern, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Devon)wrote: I had the interesting experience of writing an article for the IOL Bulletin and later receiving a request to translate it into German for publication in a German Lace Mag. I had no idea what the legal status of this request was. I had no objection to it being republished. In fact, I was flattered. I asked the IOL and they had no idea whether their permission was required, but said they had no objection. In general, for anything you publish in IOLI, you keep the copyright (probably because, while you get a thank you of some sort, you do not get *paid*. I wonder if I should be reporting my extra copies of the Bulletin and/or the thank-you bobbins to IRS, and pay taxes on them???), and their permision to republish (in English or any other language) is not needed, if someone else wants the article/pattern. Competition entries are a bit of a gray area, because, when you enter, you sign the permission for first dibs to go to IOLI -- the pattern/etc is still yours, and you can publish it anywhere you want, but only if IOLI is not interested in publishing it *first*. I always assume that anything I send for a publication in a magazine, is free for all, without any copyright issues involved; if Robin wants to copy a pattern for every member of her guild, I have no objection -- quite the opposite :) I used to get asked permission about reprints/copies, and responding was more trouble than it was worth, so then I tried putting in something like feel free to make copies, but give credit to me for designing with the patterns. I should have added: and let me know you've done so, as my reward; a pattern got reproduced, I only heard about it from third parties -- a lot of bad feelings all around :) I was also -- once -- asked to *sell* a pattern, and the woman had a hard time taking a no for the answer. It was the Swan (what else g). I told her it had been published in IOLI -- her customers don't subscribe to it (she was Swedish, I think)... I told her it was available to anyone who wanted it on a website -- her customers didn't know a URL from a U-Haul... I finally said that I wasn't ready to enter the tax quagmire for the cut I might be expected to get, and she gave up pestering me... For all I know, she'd found the website, printed it off, and is peddling the pattern to the un-clued. If she does, I think I'd be irritated a bit to learn about it, though it would be an irrational feeling -- I don't mind people copying for their (and/or ther friends') use; I don't mind people making up a pattern in a 100 copies to sell (either for personal profit or for the benefit of a charity), so why stick at someone copying a pattern to sell? All I can say is that, to me, it would not be honourable... To change the subject *slightly*... In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the 15-20% of skew, when it came to an original (artistic) design... Well, I know at least one person who'd done it *mathematically* :) Bought a cross-stitch kit, which depicted a sail-boat on a calm sea. Changed the *direction* in which the pennant was flying (so, OK, it no longer made sense from the *physics* perspective; but there's such a thing as artistic extension g), and entered it as an original design in a county crafts fair. Won, too, I seem to remember. And very proud of herself, for being so clever -- between the boat and the sea, the area of the pennant was well above the 15%... Takes all kinds :) Perhaps the IOL is missing a bet. It should have Tom write a regular feature called Copyright Corner Not a bad idea. Though Uncle Tom's Corner seems an inescapable title for the column and I doubt he'd like it :) - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA
[lace] confused about thread
Hello lacemakers, I have a few questions about thread. I found a pattern that I want to do, it is a pattern by Karen Trend Nissen. On the pattern it has a note: 24 par tr. nr. 80/3 B. I think it means 24 pairs, thread # 80/3 Bomuld (cotton). Is this correct? Could anyone please tell me what thread I could use? I went to my thread collection and found linen Goldchilds Nel 80/3, Nm 50/3, which at first I thought I could use until I decided that the B meant bomuld (cotton). Now I am really confused. Why the 2 numbers on the thread? Are linen and cotton threads numbered differently? Please help! Thanks for any help, Irene Whitham Surrey, BC - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Niven Flanders Pattern 11 Observation and Question
Marcie I haven't got that far in Niven yet, but I looked at the book. What I would do is just omit one of the dots on the pricking, and just treat it as a printing press stutter. That seems the simplest solution. Treating it as a two point exchange would require a ring pair, which there isn't. Lorelei - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Fall weekend/lace day at Sweet Briar
Hi Spiders! As many of you heard while you were at IOLI, a wonderful new resource for lacemakers and lace historians is being established at Sweet Briar College in Virginia. The J. Margaret Barber-Jane Connin Lace Study Collection is going to be joining the Sweet Briar Collection this weekend, when Elizabeth Kurella brings down over 100 pieces of lace of all sorts and descriptions. Mrs. Barber collected her lace during the early part of the 20th century, and it was her wish that others would come to love and appreciate fine lace through this collection. The vision shared by Elizabeth Kurella and Jane Connin (Mrs. Barber's granddaughter) is ambitious! It is hoped that there will soon be a CD available which catalogs the collection, that summer institutes can be conducted at the college for the benefit of museum curators and conservation specialists, and that lacemakers will have an accessible place in which to study antique lace. Needless to say, the collection will be a valuable addition to the College's ongoing Decorative Arts program. The first opportunity for lacemakers to see the collection will be during the North Carolina Regional Lacemaker's Fall Lace Day, scheduled for October 11, 2003. Christian Carr, Director of the Museum, will present the program, Introducing the Barber-Connin Lace Collection. The event will take place at the Elston Inn and Conference Center on the campus of Sweet Briar College. We'd love to have you join us for this event, and I encourage anyone who is interested in coming to contact me privately for more information. Clay Clay Blackwell Lynchburg, VA - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] confused about thread
From: Whitham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I went to my thread collection and found linen Goldchilds Nel 80/3, Nm 50/3, which at first I thought I could use until I decided that the B meant bomuld (cotton). Now I am really confused. Why the 2 numbers on the thread? Are linen and cotton threads numbered differently? Please help! Can't help you with that specific thread, but yes, linen and cotton are measured differently. In both cases, however, the scheme is the same. The upper number is an indication of how many yards to a given weight (the chosen weight is different for the two threads, which is why 80/3 linen is different from 80/3 cotton). Therefore, the larger the number, the thinner the thread (more yards per weight). Now, that numerator refers to the size of a *single ply* of the thread, and most threads are 2 or more ply. Most lace threads are 2, 3, or 6 ply. The denominator tells you how many plies are in the thread. If there's no denominator, it's two-ply. So your 80/3 is 3 plies, *each* of which is 80 yards per weight (I never remember the actual weight, because I don't care to memorize it). You can use the combination of numbers to figure out equivalent threads, within one fiber type. Divide the numerator by the denominator, so 70/2 and 100/3 are about the same thickness (equivalent to 35/1 and 33/1) and 100/6 is about the same as 50/3. This info can be handy if you want to change threads. However, if you want to change to a different fiber, you should use one of the books about thread thicknesses--one is by Brenda Paternoster and the other is called Thread and Pricking. Can't think of the title of Brenda's or the author of the other, but I'm sure some arachnean will chime in. There are also less-expensive (less-comprehensive) one-page charts sold by some lace suppliers, like Holly Van Sciver. One other small wrinkle is that not all thread is the same density. Some of this is probably tightness of twist (a fluffy thread weighs less per yard than an equally thick thread that's all-fiber/no-air), some may be due to impurities or the breed of cotton, etc. Anyway, not all threads of a given yards/weight will be exactly the same thickness, and it's thickness that matters in lace. So the thickness of a 70/2 cotton of one brand may be equivalent 80/2 of another brand, or 60/2 of a third brand. That's the other reason the above-mentioned books come in handy. Robin P. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.pittsburghlace.8m.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Miss Channer's Mat URL
I've just had another look and, 1) Gosh it looks hard 2) I know exactly what Tamara means 3) -most important Has anyone made a pattern I can beg, or borrow but not steal of the dolphin-over-bobbin motif? Viv - Original Message - From: Patricia Dowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:34 AM Subject: [lace] Miss Channer's Mat URL Dear Johanna and all interested parties. The Poole Bobbin Lace Society has a picture of the mat worked by a member. (With close-ups). http://www.cyberlink.co.uk/pblc/mat.htm Patty Dowden - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] just wanted to say hello again
i have been away at navy bootcamp, so i havn't been able to check my emails. forgot to unsubscribe before i left, and just found about 1000 email messages in my email. oh well! hope everyone is doing great, and i hope to find some nice lace shops in florida where i'll be going for school. if anyone knows of any please write!! hope you all are doing fine from susan in tennesee! happy lace making! = from susan in tennessee,u.s.a. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] dolphin
3) -most important Has anyone made a pattern I can beg, or borrow but not steal of the dolphin-over-bobbin motif? Viv Could replies be posted to the list, the dolphin leaping over a midland bobbin is the emblem of my lace group (Moray Lacemakers) and I'd love to make the emblem in lace but having no design skills at all am a bit stuck jenny barron Scotland - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Dolphin and bobbin
Jenny wrote: Could replies be posted to the list, the dolphin leaping over a midland bobbin is the emblem of my lace group (Moray Lacemakers) Is there some significance in the relationship between the dolphin and bobbin lacemaking? I ask because the emblem for Poole Bobbin Lace Circle is a dolphin on top of a Bucks Thumper bobbin. The signigicance of the dolphin in this case is that it's the emblem of the town of Poole, where we have the Dophin Shopping Centre, swimming poole, etc. and the dolphin's on all Borough of Poole stationery, vehicles and everything else. Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Pompi Parry
Does anyone have an email address for Pompi Parry or can ask her to reply to me? I have a question about some of the photos in her book about the history of Downton Lace. Thank you! = Diane Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Galena Illinois USA __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Niven Flanders Pattern 11 Observation and Question
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:48:52 -0400, Marcie wrote: I have begun the process of turning the pricking for Pattern 11 in Niven's Flanders Lace book (pgs. 52 - 53 in the new edition) into a rectangular mat and have been going over the diagram vs. my semi-finished product. While I was at it I noticed that the diagram and the pricking don't match. Most noticeable is the inner edge of the corner which has two sets of two pinholes on the pricking but only two single pinholes on the diagram. I don't have the Niven book so I can't look at this; what follows is pure speculation. In Flanders there are two ways to work a corner. Flanders is based on a 45 degree grid. The 45 degree diagonal of the corner can either have a line of dots along it, or lie between two lines of dots. To work the diagonal with pinholes along the line, it is necessary to add 2 extra pairs of bobbins, and then having worked around the corner throw out 2 pairs (not the same ones) on the inside edge of the corner. Working the corner where the line of the diagonal does not need any extra bobbins. However, if designing a pattern oneself by fiddling around with photocopies etc, it's much easier to get the diagonal true by using the dots on the line variety. So you have a diagram for one sort of corner but a pricking for the other. You say that you have turned the pricking into a mat. I interpret this to mean that you are making a piece of lace without fabric in the middle so that it has no footside. I've never tried this in Flanders. Logic suggests that if you have pins on your diagonal there are going to be extra threads in the centre, which will need to be left out and used to work the opposite diagonal from the centre outwards. I'm none too sure whether this will be feasible. I think that a mat with a diagonal between 2 lines of pinholes would be easier to work. However I haven't tried any of this, and may be wrong. -- We are Borg of Dyslexia! Resistors are fertile. Prepare to have your ass laminated! Steph Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tatting, lace stitching page http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
At 01:23 AM 8/29/03 -0400, Tamara P. Duvall wrote: In many-messages-ago, Clay asked how one could possibly measure the 15-20% of skew, when it came to an original (artistic) design... You don't. If I change it X%, then it's mine is one of the most-persistent of the myths listed at http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/LINKS/TEXT/COPYRIGH.TXT I would appreciate any comments or corrections. -- Joy Beeson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ west of Fort Wayne, Indiana, U.S.A. where it's raining and doesn't look as though it plans to let up any time soon, but partly cloudy is predicted for Labor Day Weekend. (Which features fireworks this year, thanks to a thunderstorm last July.) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
This reminds me of something my husband used to say to me when I used to say well, at least it keeps me out of the bars. He would always reply I wish you'd go to the bar, at least someone might buy you a drink, when was the last time someone bought you some thread or bobbins. LOL Patsy A. Goodman - Original Message - . It is a great hobby, keeps DW out of the bars and off the street, and is far less expensive than shopping. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [lace] Dolphin and bobbin
. . . I think we chose well, dolphins are beautiful, do a lot of talking and can be stroppy! jenny barron Scotland Oh Jenny, I am delighted. Please tell us what 'stroppy' means. Patty Dowden - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] FYI: So. CAL Bobbin lace class
YSandra wrote: Fee is right (depending on age $10.00 or $20.00 for the younger under 50 crowd- sometimes it pays to be older). Is that typical of the cost of lacemaking classes run by school districts in the adult education department? Through adult education, I've got a choice of a 2 hour x 24 week class in Poole for 120 pounds (190 dollars), but 84 pounds (132 dollars) for women over 60 (men over 65), or 24 weeks in Bournemouth split into 2 lots of 12 for payment, total for 24 weeks 110 pounds (173 dollars) or 55 pounds (86 dollars)for seniors. I've been going to the Bournemouth class for a couple of years, but won't be going this session till after Christmas as I'm due to have a knee replacement at the beginning of October. There are a couple of private classes running for less. Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Stroppy
I always understood 'stroppy' to be short for obstreperous, which means turbulent or unruly, but my dictionary says it's origin is unknown, and that it means bad tempered or awkward to deal with (which means the same thing as obstreperous). Jean in Poole - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] RE: lace classes
The price for the adult school lace class being discussed is typical of California classes. Clearly it is well under-priced for the value. I have been in this class for a few years. The teacher is incredible and we have 25-30 students every week. Many of the students are very experienced lacers. I am very lucky! Barbara in sunny California - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Copyright -- again :)
Joy, one should never quote themselves. The skew, using your words is a factual question and would go to a jury. Whether Buck's pricking of the Channer Mat is even copyrightable by Bean or Buck is a thorny legal question, since Channer had published the mat previously and it was already in the public domain. However, as to the mat. I thought is was a place mat for dinner but a bathmat may be more appropriate. The question is not as simple or straightforward as some have claimed on their web sites. Let me give you an example. In Harper and Rowe v. Nations 471 U.S. 539 the Supreme Court of the United States said the following: [17] The Senate Report confirms that Congress intended the unpublished nature of the work to figure prominently in fair use analysis. In discussing fair use of photocopied materials in the classroom the Committee Report states: A key, though not necessarily determinative, factor in fair use is whether or not the work is available to the potential user. If the work is out of print and unavailable for purchase through normal channels, the user may have more justification for reproducing it. And again in Twentieth Century Music Corp. v. Aiken: The immediate effect of our copyright law is to secure a fair return for an author's creative labor. But the ultimate aim is, by this incentive, to stimulate [the creation of useful works] for the general public good. Economists who have addressed the issue believe the fair use exception should come into play only in those situations in which the market fails or the price the copyright holder would ask is near zero. See, e.g., T. Brennan, Harper Row v. The Nation, Copyrightability and Fair Use, Dept. of Justice Economic Policy Office Discussion Paper 13-17 (1984); Gordon, Fair Use as Market Failure: A Structural and Economic Analysis of the Betamax Case and its Predecessors, 82 Colum.L.Rev. 1600, 1615 (1982). Then as to percent change there is this from the Court: The copyright owner's rights, however, are subject to certain statutory exceptions. §§ 107-118. Among these is § 107, which codifies the traditional privilege of other authors to make fair use of an earlier writer's work. [ In addition, no author may copyright facts or ideas. § 102. The copyright is limited to those aspects of the work -- termed expression -- that display the stamp of the author's originality. Yet copyright does not prevent subsequent users from copying from a prior author's work those constituent elements that are not original -- for example, quotations borrowed under the rubric of fair use from other copyrighted works, facts, or materials in the public domain -- as long as such use does not unfairly appropriate the author's original contributions. Ibid.; A. Latman, Fair Use of Copyrighted Works (1958), reprinted as Study No. 14 in Copyright Law Revision Studies Nos. 1416, prepared for the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, 86th Cong., 2d Sess., 7 (1960) (hereinafter Latman). Perhaps the controversy between the lower courts in this case over copyrightability is more aptly styled a dispute over whether The Nation's appropriation of unoriginal and uncopyrightable elements encroached on the originality embodied in the work as a whole. Perhaps because the fair use doctrine was predicated on the author's implied consent to reasonable and customary use when he released his work for public consumption, fair use traditionally was not recognized as a defense to charges [p*551] of copying from an author's as yet unpublished works. ? Ô Under common law copyright, the property of the author . . . in his intellectual creation [was] absolute until he voluntarily part[ed] with the same. American Tobacco Co. v. Werckmeister, 207 U.S. 284, 299 (1907); 2 Nimmer § 8.23, at 8-273. This absolute rule, however, was tempered in practice by the equitable nature of the fair use doctrine. In a given case, factors such as implied consent through de facto publication on performance or dissemination of a work may tip the balance of equities in favor of prepublication use. See Copyright Law Revision -- Part 2: Discussion and Comments on Report of the Register of Copyrights on General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law, 88th Cong., 1st Sess., 27 (H.R. Comm. Print 1963) (discussion suggesting works disseminated to the public in a form not constituting a technical publication should nevertheless be subject to fair use); 3 Nimmer § 13.05, at 13-62, n. [17] The Senate Report confirms that Congress intended the unpublished nature of the work to figure prominently in fair use analysis. In discussing fair use of photocopied materials in the classroom the Committee Report states: A key, though not necessarily determinative, factor in fair use is whether or not the work is available to the potential user. If the work is out of print and unavailable for purchase through normal channels, the user may have more justification for reproducing it. . And again in Twentieth
[lace-chat] Re: photo
On Thursday, Aug 28, 2003, at 09:12 US/Eastern, Sof wrote: Just funny : http://www.anniecicatelli.com/liens.htm As my knowledge of French is limited to the word merde, I used it... g Could you please enlighten me (and other morons like me) as to what the caption says? And is it, could it be, Prince Charles in the photo? I had a sudden vision of *our* (US) head similiarly employed... The design would consist of a single word: truth. The caption would be: embroider and frame Sof from France without sun Bet that's a relief :) It's thundering here, so I wonder about the wisdom of staying on the puter, but think I'lll risk it... - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] :) Fwd: The Clinton bashing continues....but this one did make me smile!
From: A.N. When Bill and Hillary first got married, Bill said, I am putting a box under the bed. You must promise never to look in it. In all their 30 years of marriage Hillary never looked. However, on the afternoon of their 30th Anniversary, curiosity got the best of her. She lifted the lid and peeked inside. In the box were 3 empty beer cans and $81,874.25 in cash. She closed the box and put it back under the bed. Now that she knew what was in the box, she was doubly curious as to why there even was such a box with such contents. That evening they were out for a special Anniversary dinner. After dinner Hillary could no longer contain her curiosity and she confessed, saying, I am so sorry. For all these years I kept my promise and never looked into the box under our bed. However, today the temptation was too much and I finally gave in. But now, I need to know why you keep the 3 beer cans in that box? Bill thought for a while and said, I guess after all these years you deserve to know the truth. Whenever I was unfaithful to you I put an empty beer can in the box under the bed to remind myself not to do it again. Hillary was shocked, but said, Hmmm, Jennifer, Paula and Monica. I am very disappointed and saddened by your behavior. However, since you are addicted to sex, it's bound to happen. I guess, three times is not that bad considering your problem. Bill thanked her for being so understanding. They hugged and made their peace. A little while later Hillary asked Bill, So why do you have all that money in the box? Bill answered, Well, whenever the box filled up with empty cans, I took them to the recycling center and redeemed them for cash. - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Re: photo
Above the photo, it says 'Links'. Below it says 'Seen on the net'. Looks like Prince Charles to me. On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 09:38 PM, Tamara P. Duvall wrote: http://www.anniecicatelli.com/liens.htm As my knowledge of French is limited to the word merde, I used it... g Could you please enlighten me (and other morons like me) as to what the caption says? Margot Walker in Halifax on the east coast of Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] :) Fwd: Songs of the 60s.
From: R.P. The old folks here will be happy to know that some of the artists from the 60's are re-releasing their hits with new lyrics to accommodate our advancing age: Led Zeppelin - Chair Lift to Heaven AC/DC - Whole Lotta Rolaids Joe Walsh - My Maserati does 185, I lost my vision and now I don't drive Herman's Hermits - Mrs. Brown, You've Got A Lovely Walker The Bee Gees - How Can You Mend A Broken Hip James Brown - Papa's Got A Brand New Kidney Stone Ringo Starr - I Get By With A Little Help From Depends Marvin Gaye - I Heard It Through The Grape Nuts Procol Harem - A Whiter Shade Of Hair Johnny Nash - I Can't See Clearly Now Leo Sayer - You Make Me Feel Like Napping Paul Simon - Fifty Ways To Lose Your Liver Roberta Flack - The First Time I Ever Forgot Your Face Commodores - Once, Twice, Three Times To The Bathroom Rolling Stones - You Can't Always Pee When You Want Bobby Darin - Splish, Splash, I Was Havin' A Flash - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] :) Fwd: top News stories 2035
From: R.P. 1. Castro finally dies at age 112; Cuban cigars can now be imported legally, but President Chelsea Clinton has banned all smoking. 2. Last remaining Fundamentalist Muslim dies in the American Territory of the Middle East (formerly known as Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon). 3. Afghanistan still closed off; physicists estimate it will take at least ten more years before radioactivity decreases to safe levels. 4. George Z. Bush says he will run for President in 2036. 5. 35-year study: diet and exercise are the key to weight loss. 6. Nursing home event: Bill Clinton denies allegations of affair with candy striper. 7. Baby conceived naturally...scientists stumped. 8. Ozone created by electric cars now killing thousands in Los Angeles. 9. Average height of NBA players now nine foot seven inches. 10. Microsoft announces it has perfected its newest version of Windows so it crashes BEFORE installation is completed. 11. New California law requires that all nail clippers, screwdrivers, and baseball bats be registered by January 2036. - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] *Beyond* the Wonderland and the Looking Glass...
Gentle Spiders, There's nothing I like better than manifestations of the absurd and the bizarre in *real life*; they're the chuckles that give my face character instead of old-age wrinkles Growing up in the communist system provided me with an almost daily dose of those, but living in the US has kept me, mostly, on a lean diet. OTOH, *when* things happen, their size is likely to be commensurate with the size of the country g. Today's morsel was just too delicious not to share... ~~~ When someone has had extreme good luck, we say in Polish: I feel like God has pooped in my pocket (don't ask me why; it's a standard cliche). Little bobkins of that good luck have been piling up in my pocket for the past month... Not in the same order, but: I got accepted to the (lace) workshop in Ithaca (10-13 Oct); my first choice, Polychrome de Courcelles with Pompi Parry... Good, excellent, exhilaratingly exciting. Have two roomies (both Arachneans, too, and I *know and like* them both) lined up to alleviate the pain of the hotel charges... Good, *very good*; the pocket-snake is writhing in ecstasy. Have been offered a ride from Pittsburgh to Ithaca with one of them; that's only a short air-hop from Roanoke, and there's no plane-changing -- which I hate -- involved... Good; couldn't be better. Er :) Went to my tried and trusty travel agent to look into booking my flight to and from Pittsburgh today... It takes about an hour and a half (a little less) to *fly* (we'll not go into the arrive 2hrs early, etc business g) the distance directly ... Even the travel agent was rendered speechless when the price for the hop (on a 12-seater plane) came up as (drum roll, please...): $530 (give or take a penny). She re-checked, but the screen's response proved to be, obstinately, the same. I could fly to Europe for that, I said. No kidding, she said; I just booked someone to France for $590 this morning, she said. She did some more keyboarding... You can fly to Pittsburgh for $230, but you'd have to change planes in Detroit, she said. I don't want to have to change planes. Um... Check-mate. OK, let's re-think... The workshop is in Ithaca. If I have to change planes anyway... How many plane changes/layovers if I fly to *Ithaca*?, I ask. One, she says. That's much better than it had been in '96, and, as a result, it's only 5 hrs instead of 10; maybe I could stomach *that*, given some financial incentive... How much? I ask. $300 she replies. Bad, but given the distance, perhaps not unreasonable...Where do I change the planes? I ask. She gives me a speaking look... Pittsburgh, she says... Before I rest my case, I have a brilliant idea... What if I *buy* the ticket to Ithaca, but ask them to take off my luggage in Pittsburgh, and just *don't use* the rest of the ticket? Nobody's the loser, financially... They'll cancel your return ticket, all of it, if you don't show up on the second 'leg' of your trip out, she says, without even cracking a smile, while I bang my head -- hard -- on her desk. To summarise: *twice the distance*, with the attending bother (luggage transfer, spending hours at airports while being exposed to all sorts of new viruses etc) can be had at *half the price*... ...and I think to myself -- what a mad, crazy, world... Also, they're coming to take me away, ha, ha... In my 30 yrs in the US, I've heard *many* dumb Polack jokes, but *none* was *quite* as inventive in exploring absurdity... :) I think I'll *drive* myself over to Pittsburgh... Since the longest I've ever -- so far -- driven by myself is 50 miles, and the longest I've driven with a passenger to guide me is 100+, the 300 (or so I'm told) to Pittsburgh is going to add a new dimension to the phrase come hell or high water... Sigh.. I suppose it's time I grew up anyway, and began to act like an American (neither sleet, nor snow, nor 500 miles of Interstate...) :) And I'l arrange it so that my DS (who has my password and can post to Arachne on my ticket) will let y'all know on Oct 15 whether I'd ended up in a funeral parlour or just a loony bin... - Tamara P Duvall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Lexington, Virginia, USA Formerly of Warsaw, Poland To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] hello to everyone on lace chat again
i have been away at boot camp, and i wasn't able to read or write any emails until now. i just found about a 1000 emails in my mail today, and i realized i didn't unsubscribe before i left. i wish i had time to read them, but i couldn't even skim over them there were so many. i hope you are all doing fine and are happy lacemaking! i am moving to lflorida sometime next week, and i am looking for some nice lace supplies shops there i can visit and shop at on the weekends. if you know of any, please let me know. i'll be checking my email about once a week, so i may be slow to reply. please let me know if you know of any. hope everyone is doing great! happy lacemaking! from susan in tennessee = from susan in tennessee,u.s.a. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: Suggestions for linens in 1949
Am way behind in reading lace chat, but felt need to respond. Some of my visitors will -- after a single night at the Hotel Duvall -- make up the bed, to make it look like it's fresh; I was taught proper guest etiquette required one to make up bed each morning one was a guest, until last day, when before leaving one should strip the bed, leaving the linens neatly folded at foot (perhaps folded into a pillowcase, ready for laundry) and spread the bed cover (spread) back neatly over bare mattress and pillows. I wash it, and don't worry about it; leave it in the one day basket I also hate ironing. My children used to accuse me of keeping clothes in the one day basket until they outgrew them ! Update on DH who is recovering, now at home, from open heart surgery: He is keeping me running, trying to buy, make, cook, something to whet his appetite. He is well enough to walk around, criticizing, but not well enough to help !! Did I thank y'all for your prayers? Am convinced they worked. Louise in Central Virginia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
