Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Yes, of course you're right, I suppose we have to accept them as World and European Champions. I'm just so against the way they did it, the world having to accept their same old same old dull routine. Perhaps the climate does influence style and it might help to explain why some British teams employ long ball tactics - to keep the strikers from freezing on winter fixtures? Maybe Torres believes his comment to be well founded - same question please to the other members of the Spanish squad, perhaps they'd all answer in the same way? Dave - Original Message - From: Eric B To: Sutton / Smail Cc: Nigel Barber ; Leeds List (Post to list) Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil unworthy? for real? Its not really THAT easy to win mate, I thought you d know by now. I d be more inclined to agree if you said Greece and Italy but not spain. I too dislike Spains style of playing and was very happy to see them loose. The thing is that Brazil are known for the same style of football, pass the bass around for a bit and then explode into something. Does it have to do with playing under sun/heat? Heat tends to slow things around right? So no wonder theres a culture for that style of playing in warm countries if my theory is somewhat correct. Having said that, Spain took that style of play to the extreme. its boring to watch and Im ready for someone else, just not fuxxxing italy. On a different note: Torres made a dumb comment. There is not 1 way of playing football, there is not one way of making music etc. Eric On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: Time's up. Spain prepared to be rumbled - we all know how you do it now - unworthy World and European Champions - I've nothing against Spain, honest, just boring football with little to no options for variety. British national football doesn't even appear on the radar we're that far behind. Dave - Original Message - From: Nigel Barber To: Ed Morrish Cc: Sutton / Smail ; Leeds List (Post to list) ; Rob Gillard Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Yeah, stupid world and European champions. Not like us witty, clever, potless Brits. Nigel. On 1 July 2013 18:09, Ed Morrish edmorr...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 Jul 2013, at 13:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. I seem to recall Torres being asked, after Spain had lost to Switzerland, why they hadn't gotten the ball hoofed into the mixer (I paraphrase). Because that's not football, he replied. Admirable, and just a little bit stupid. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER -- vectoria.co.uk concentrichron.com -- Mindbrix -- Dream it, draw it, build it, love it 69 Derby Street Beeston Nottingham NG9 2LG +44 7905 311 352 ni...@mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk Skype: ntbarber twitter.com/mindbrix ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from start to finish Spain just bang on and on with the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching them. All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made them World Champions so I'll give them that. Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing style for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing with them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. Dave - Original Message - From: Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
You are right The Barca era is slipping away It will just slowly fade. The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist --- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myRay.com http://www.myRay.org -- Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ Blog: http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com On 2 July 2013 10:17, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from start to finish Spain just bang on and on with the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching them. All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made them World Champions so I'll give them that. Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing style for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing with them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. Dave - Original Message - From: Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/**football/23024166http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave __**_ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslisthttp://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**orgleedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER __**_ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslisthttp://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**orgleedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
How any of us has the audacity to deride the style of play that has brought success to Barcelona / Spain, etc is laughable whilst we pay to watch woeful professionals struggle to string together a handful of passes. Whilst at times it can appear boring, how many of us have complained about a players inability to play an incisive pass or merely keep procession, as Rich W would say these are the basics and something that our former 'best' (according to records) player so clearly lacked. I would willingly sell my soul to the devil to be able to see a player that possesses 10% of Iniesta's ability and vision don a Leeds shirt, anyone who thinks otherwise is more than welcome to wallow in mediocrity. On 2 Jul 2013, at 08:32, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: You are right The Barca era is slipping away It will just slowly fade. The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist --- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myRay.com http://www.myRay.org -- Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ Blog: http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com On 2 July 2013 10:17, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from start to finish Spain just bang on and on with the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching them. All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made them World Champions so I'll give them that. Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing style for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing with them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. Dave - Original Message - From: Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/**football/23024166http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave __**_ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslisthttp://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**orgleedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER __**_ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslisthttp://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**orgleedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's A good association. Leeds of the 70s? I don't know who is more complemented by this, BM or LU Dave Original Message - From: Dr Michael Benjamin To: Sutton / Smail Cc: Ian Murray ; Leeds List (Post to list) Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil You are right The Barca era is slipping away It will just slowly fade. The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist --- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myRay.com http://www.myRay.org -- Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ Blog: http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com On 2 July 2013 10:17, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from start to finish Spain just bang on and on with the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching them. All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made them World Champions so I'll give them that. Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing style for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing with them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. Dave - Original Message - From: Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
I see your point, but you are comparing a current day 2nd tier English club with the World Champions. Well done to Spain and Barcelona for their respective triumphs, but they have created a bland rigid style with no option to change and presumably no intention of ever trying to. (Whilst Pat Nevin's observations were interesting, it doesn't change the fact that it's boring.) This was clearly shown when they were losing 3-0 to Brazil the other night and a change of tempo / style was needed and they weren't able to. A lot of managers say that they concentrate on what their own team does and not worry so much about the oppo. I believe this idea to have faults. It's the team that can adapt best to what the opposition is doing that bosses the game. Spain could not adapt to what Brazil were throwing at them and just continued as they were and went on to concede more goals. I don't consider myself audacious one bit, but the Spanish way which has worked for them for so long is being replaced by a multi paced / styled system as shown by the likes of Brazil and Bayern. And the big point - it's great to watch! One or two players with 10% of the likes of Iniesta's quality would be dragged down by the other donkeys in the team. Think big, we need a bunch of them. I wouldn't sell my soul though to finance or achieve this. Dave - Original Message - From: Chris Briggs c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk To: m...@myray.com Cc: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com; Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil How any of us has the audacity to deride the style of play that has brought success to Barcelona / Spain, etc is laughable whilst we pay to watch woeful professionals struggle to string together a handful of passes. Whilst at times it can appear boring, how many of us have complained about a players inability to play an incisive pass or merely keep procession, as Rich W would say these are the basics and something that our former 'best' (according to records) player so clearly lacked. I would willingly sell my soul to the devil to be able to see a player that possesses 10% of Iniesta's ability and vision don a Leeds shirt, anyone who thinks otherwise is more than welcome to wallow in mediocrity. On 2 Jul 2013, at 08:32, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: You are right The Barca era is slipping away It will just slowly fade. The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist --- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myRay.com http://www.myRay.org -- Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ Blog: http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com On 2 July 2013 10:17, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from start to finish Spain just bang on and on with the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching them. All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made them World Champions so I'll give them that. Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing style for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing with them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. Dave - Original Message - From: Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
DISCLAIMER: living in Spain, married to a spaniard, half spanish kids etc, thus been roused from lurking with this thread. :- This recent line on Spain being boring and some being glad they lost (not just Dave Sutton below), criticism of their footballing style - if there was such a thing as footballing BLASPHEMY or luddite then this is it. Rather, it's more a case of simply turning on a team that have won too much lately i.e. there was no criticism of Spain's victories in '08 or '10 when they were the underdog and shedding their perennial loser bottler tag. We all tire of the same team winning too much (apart from our beloved LUFC). Recall that it was Zidane and France who put Spain out of the WC in 2006 BUT against a Spanish team which had HALF of the players who played on Sunday. Since then Spain changed their style a little i.e. they have had different styles and didn't do it, but this latter one has been SO successful. If it's not broke...?Possesion football works for them but yes they should start looking at the Bayern Munich way with more power in central midfield - which is exactly what Brazil did with Paulinho and Dias - which Busquets tries to do but has faded a lot lately.. Let's not forget also that Spain were KNACKERED from both the long season and having played ET + penalties just two days before. I still can't understand why those who go to the Confed don't take more B players and rest the older ones. But have they been boring? For me, absolutely not. Who remembers the tedium of France winning in '98 or '00 with Guivarche and Dugarry, with only ZZ to inject some quality? Or Greece in 2004, which was worse than anything Jack Charlton had the Rep playing in the 90s. Brazil in '94? Dire dire football. Would I rather watch Spain mix it up like England and try any number of unsuccessful champagne passes like Gerrard up in the air to Carroll? Erm, pass on that one (see what i did there... :-).It's not fair to mention England here of course, but they are almost a footballing opposite. In recent years i can't watch England play without constantly counting the number of consecutive passes they make to each other - it rarely gets above 3 or 4. When England wins playing like that, is it exciting? For England fans yes, but you'll know it'll get found out and as a neutral, i think it's a sh1t way to play and no, it's rarely exciting. Spain's possession football also suits the fact that a number of their players in the Spain first XI are actually not quite World Class but still they still have won: Torres (on the slide since 2008/9), Arbeloa (truly woeful the other night), Pique (good footballer, poor defender), Casillas (Mou was in large part right, although great at 1-on-1s), Navas has doesn't score goals and the final pass hasn't been great of late, then theres Valdés (a David James calamity every 5th match). Not to mention the fact that this is actually a VERY small team physically. Is it boring to see little guys dink their way past clodders in midfield and keeping the ball off them? It is FOOT ball afterall and anything that is not lamping a ball up to a beanpole donkey up front for a hopeful knockdown cannot be bad. Again, i'm biased, but the FC Barcelona of the last 4 years has been IMHO the best quality football there has ever been and if you're not excited by Messi or Villa then fek knows. Hasta Luego! :- BMW From: dsm...@dsmail.plus.com To: c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 10:03:14 +0100 CC: leedslist@gn.apc.org Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil I see your point, but you are comparing a current day 2nd tier English club with the World Champions. Well done to Spain and Barcelona for their respective triumphs, but they have created a bland rigid style with no option to change and presumably no intention of ever trying to. (Whilst Pat Nevin's observations were interesting, it doesn't change the fact that it's boring.) This was clearly shown when they were losing 3-0 to Brazil the other night and a change of tempo / style was needed and they weren't able to. A lot of managers say that they concentrate on what their own team does and not worry so much about the oppo. I believe this idea to have faults. It's the team that can adapt best to what the opposition is doing that bosses the game. Spain could not adapt to what Brazil were throwing at them and just continued as they were and went on to concede more goals. I don't consider myself audacious one bit, but the Spanish way which has worked for them for so long is being replaced by a multi paced / styled system as shown by the likes of Brazil and Bayern. And the big point - it's great to watch! One or two players with 10% of the likes of Iniesta's quality would be dragged down by the other donkeys in the team. Think big, we need a bunch of them. I wouldn't sell my soul though
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Lucky man, and then he also gets to enjoy Barcelona and soccer in the sun Who in their rightful mind on this list is not jealous then? Okay, all you lot who live in other fleshpots, paradises, and so forth like me, you needn't reply SmugPete -Original Message- From: leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org [mailto:leedslist-boun...@gn.apc.org] On Behalf Of Brendan McWilliams Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2013 9:35 PM To: leedslist@gn.apc.org Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil DISCLAIMER: living in Spain, married to a spaniard, half spanish kids etc.. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Spain have played some of the best passing football the world has ever seen - even in the Uruguay match some of the layoffs were superb, and how they only got 2 is beyond me. Spain have also played some of the most boring footie too on occasion - mind numbing stuff . Some teams will find them out, most won't! To deny their absolute class is obtuse, but to deny how boring they are 'at times' is to ignore reality. Right, off the fence... From: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com To: Chris Briggs c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk Cc: leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2013, 10:03 Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil I see your point, but you are comparing a current day 2nd tier English club with the World Champions. Well done to Spain and Barcelona for their respective triumphs, but they have created a bland rigid style with no option to change and presumably no intention of ever trying to. (Whilst Pat Nevin's observations were interesting, it doesn't change the fact that it's boring.) This was clearly shown when they were losing 3-0 to Brazil the other night and a change of tempo / style was needed and they weren't able to. A lot of managers say that they concentrate on what their own team does and not worry so much about the oppo. I believe this idea to have faults. It's the team that can adapt best to what the opposition is doing that bosses the game. Spain could not adapt to what Brazil were throwing at them and just continued as they were and went on to concede more goals. I don't consider myself audacious one bit, but the Spanish way which has worked for them for so long is being replaced by a multi paced / styled system as shown by the likes of Brazil and Bayern. And the big point - it's great to watch! One or two players with 10% of the likes of Iniesta's quality would be dragged down by the other donkeys in the team. Think big, we need a bunch of them. I wouldn't sell my soul though to finance or achieve this. Dave - Original Message - From: Chris Briggs c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk To: m...@myray.com Cc: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com; Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil How any of us has the audacity to deride the style of play that has brought success to Barcelona / Spain, etc is laughable whilst we pay to watch woeful professionals struggle to string together a handful of passes. Whilst at times it can appear boring, how many of us have complained about a players inability to play an incisive pass or merely keep procession, as Rich W would say these are the basics and something that our former 'best' (according to records) player so clearly lacked. I would willingly sell my soul to the devil to be able to see a player that possesses 10% of Iniesta's ability and vision don a Leeds shirt, anyone who thinks otherwise is more than welcome to wallow in mediocrity. On 2 Jul 2013, at 08:32, Dr Michael Benjamin m...@myray.com wrote: You are right The Barca era is slipping away It will just slowly fade. The Gemanic style is like Leeds's of the '70's Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist --- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myray.com/ http://www.myray.org/ -- Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ Blog: http://www.drmichaelbenjamin.com/ On 2 July 2013 10:17, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: One man's poison is another man's medicine. I wouldn't mind the endless passing game if it was tempered and balanced with other styles but from start to finish Spain just bang on and on with the same game. I rarely get further than the 10 minute mark watching them. All very cleaver sucking in the oppo etc, but dull to watch. It has made them World Champions so I'll give them that. Bayern for example are the contrast. They mix up so many different styles and paces, they are great to watch. They can play the Spanish passing style for a bit, then the long ball for a bit etc etc. It's always changing with them. Let's not start on 1975 again please, that's all been said. Dave - Original Message - From: Ian Murray ianjamesmur...@hotmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Again, see previous email and my disclaimer and bias, BUT there have of course been some boring matches with Spain, largely during Euro 2012 - but one has to blame the opposition they were up against and the tactics they employed to negate them. Two dire games involving Spain were the matches last year against France (Euro QF) and then the SF against Portugal. Both France Portugal did nothing whatsoever beyond parking the bus as per what Mourinho had Inter Milan do against FCB in the CL Semi final of 2010. Both oppositions had 1 true creative player - Ribery, Ronaldo - with the remainder not likely to thread a pass like Pirlo. The surprise of Euro 2012 was how Italy didn't employ anthing remotely like catenaccio in any match - in particular the first game against Spain which was an absolute belter. Italy again tried to play and attack in the final, and Spain took full advantage in a far from boring match. Iniesta and Xavi are simply not capable of playing boring football - they are constantly looking for the killer pass and if they can't do that they short pass it keeping possession. Anyhow, with new signing Luke Murphy we'll be making the same complaint very soon! Btw, any takers yet for Tonge, Brown-eh, Pugh, Pearce, Varney and Norris yet??? Actually, do we want rid of Tonge? Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 13:50:59 +0100 From: bruvvalee...@yahoo.co.uk To: dsm...@dsmail.plus.com; c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk CC: leedslist@gn.apc.org Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Spain have played some of the best passing football the world has ever seen - even in the Uruguay match some of the layoffs were superb, and how they only got 2 is beyond me. Spain have also played some of the most boring footie too on occasion - mind numbing stuff . Some teams will find them out, most won't! To deny their absolute class is obtuse, but to deny how boring they are 'at times' is to ignore reality. Right, off the fence... From: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com To: Chris Briggs c_bri...@hotmail.co.uk Cc: leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2013, 10:03 Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
On 1 Jul 2013, at 13:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. I seem to recall Torres being asked, after Spain had lost to Switzerland, why they hadn't gotten the ball hoofed into the mixer (I paraphrase). Because that's not football, he replied. Admirable, and just a little bit stupid. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Yeah, stupid world and European champions. Not like us witty, clever, potless Brits. Nigel. On 1 July 2013 18:09, Ed Morrish edmorr...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 Jul 2013, at 13:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. I seem to recall Torres being asked, after Spain had lost to Switzerland, why they hadn't gotten the ball hoofed into the mixer (I paraphrase). Because that's not football, he replied. Admirable, and just a little bit stupid. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER -- vectoria.co.uk concentrichron.com -- Mindbrix -- Dream it, draw it, build it, love it 69 Derby Street Beeston Nottingham NG9 2LG +44 7905 311 352 ni...@mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk Skype: ntbarber twitter.com/mindbrix ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
On 1 Jul 2013, at 18:33, Nigel Barber ni...@mindbrix.co.uk wrote: Yeah, stupid world and European champions. I did only say a little. I'd be happy to go on record that being happy with footballers who can't play football but give it 110% is a hell of a lot more stupid than that. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Spain boring? Really? Sorry mate, seems you've been watching too much crap football of late. Was yesterday a demonstration of good Barcelona soccer? Of course not. Heck, their best player was sitting at home in Argentina and their second best player was playing for the opposition. Michael A. Gardiner LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL A. GARDINER 110 West “A” Street, Suite 950 San Diego, CA 92101 Phone: 619.238.9800 Fax: 619.814.3727 E-mail: mgardi...@gardinerlegal.commailto:mgardi...@gardinerlegal.com Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for review by the party to whom it is addressed. It may contain attorney client or attorney work product privileged and confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including any attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege. On Jul 1, 2013, at 10:09 AM, leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.orgmailto:leedslist-requ...@gn.apc.org wrote: Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 13:03:45 +0100 From: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.commailto:dsm...@dsmail.plus.com To: Leeds List \(Post to list\) leedslist@gn.apc.orgmailto:leedslist@gn.apc.org Cc: Rob Gillard rgill...@me.commailto:rgill...@me.com Subject: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Message-ID: 48FC1E66B2F64D718EDEBA22EF62CA80@DavidPC Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252; reply-type=original I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Time's up. Spain prepared to be rumbled - we all know how you do it now - unworthy World and European Champions - I've nothing against Spain, honest, just boring football with little to no options for variety. British national football doesn't even appear on the radar we're that far behind. Dave - Original Message - From: Nigel Barber To: Ed Morrish Cc: Sutton / Smail ; Leeds List (Post to list) ; Rob Gillard Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Yeah, stupid world and European champions. Not like us witty, clever, potless Brits. Nigel. On 1 July 2013 18:09, Ed Morrish edmorr...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 Jul 2013, at 13:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. I seem to recall Torres being asked, after Spain had lost to Switzerland, why they hadn't gotten the ball hoofed into the mixer (I paraphrase). Because that's not football, he replied. Admirable, and just a little bit stupid. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER -- vectoria.co.uk concentrichron.com -- Mindbrix -- Dream it, draw it, build it, love it 69 Derby Street Beeston Nottingham NG9 2LG +44 7905 311 352 ni...@mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk Skype: ntbarber twitter.com/mindbrix ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
QED! Thanks Torres - just what I would expect! Dave - Original Message - From: Ed Morrish edmorr...@gmail.com To: Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com Cc: Leeds List (Post to list) leedslist@gn.apc.org; Rob Gillard rgill...@me.com Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil On 1 Jul 2013, at 13:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. I seem to recall Torres being asked, after Spain had lost to Switzerland, why they hadn't gotten the ball hoofed into the mixer (I paraphrase). Because that's not football, he replied. Admirable, and just a little bit stupid. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Brazil showed the world how to counter the Spain/Barcelona stylehave players take turns kicking Iniesta every time he gets the ball, and hope you get a compliant ref who will let you get away with it, as last night's one did. On 1 July 2013 15:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/**football/23024166http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave __**_ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslisthttp://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.**orgleedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
unworthy? for real? Its not really THAT easy to win mate, I thought you d know by now. I d be more inclined to agree if you said Greece and Italy but not spain. I too dislike Spains style of playing and was very happy to see them loose. The thing is that Brazil are known for the same style of football, pass the bass around for a bit and then explode into something. Does it have to do with playing under sun/heat? Heat tends to slow things around right? So no wonder theres a culture for that style of playing in warm countries if my theory is somewhat correct. Having said that, Spain took that style of play to the extreme. its boring to watch and Im ready for someone else, just not fuxxxing italy. On a different note: Torres made a dumb comment. There is not 1 way of playing football, there is not one way of making music etc. Eric On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.comwrote: Time's up. Spain prepared to be rumbled - we all know how you do it now - unworthy World and European Champions - I've nothing against Spain, honest, just boring football with little to no options for variety. British national football doesn't even appear on the radar we're that far behind. Dave - Original Message - From: Nigel Barber To: Ed Morrish Cc: Sutton / Smail ; Leeds List (Post to list) ; Rob Gillard Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil Yeah, stupid world and European champions. Not like us witty, clever, potless Brits. Nigel. On 1 July 2013 18:09, Ed Morrish edmorr...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 Jul 2013, at 13:03, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. I seem to recall Torres being asked, after Spain had lost to Switzerland, why they hadn't gotten the ball hoofed into the mixer (I paraphrase). Because that's not football, he replied. Admirable, and just a little bit stupid. Ed. ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER -- vectoria.co.uk concentrichron.com -- Mindbrix -- Dream it, draw it, build it, love it 69 Derby Street Beeston Nottingham NG9 2LG +44 7905 311 352 ni...@mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk Skype: ntbarber twitter.com/mindbrix ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
Re: [LU] NON LU: Spain Brazil
Really? So how should football be played. Yeah Barca and Spain don't have a 'plan B' but their 'plan A' is football played well and is great to watch imho. Beats the long ball play-it-up-to-the-big-man crap we have been dishing out for so long. Sent from my iPhone On 01/07/2013, at 20:05, Sutton / Smail dsm...@dsmail.plus.com wrote: I take great heart in seeing Spain (and Barcelona) lose. I have nothing against the country or club, but they do play the same endless boring boring passing game. I think opponents simply get bored or mesmerised playing them and fall into a trance. Maybe that's part of their plan? Brazil are much more of an exciting team to watch with so many different styles and pace changes to their game - not unlike Bayern. However, Pat Nevin did a very eye opening piece on the Spanish passing style which is well worth a look for those that haven't seen it. Very admirable perhaps, even so, still boring. I noticed even at 3-0 down the Spanish had no plan B, Plan A obviously wasn't working against Brazil. This was not a good example of Pat Nevin's observations as they were under heavy pressure last night which they aren't so used to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23024166 Dave ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER ___ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org MARCHING ON TOGETHER
