They do come into it if you print things any other way - many users
don't trust 'print links' for various reasons, and the appearance of the
full page is not exactly great if all frames are printed on one page -
scroll bars aren't very useful on paper!
Mike
-Original Message-
snip
Unfortunatly your first example breaches Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
12.4 !
Many of the form elements, such as the Radio buttons and checkboxes are not
keyboard accessible, as the label has not been explicitly associated with the
element. Curious, as some of the other elements do have
This looks to be working okay in IE6 on XP except for note number three, which
is failing to overlay the text of the following paragraph, making it virtually
unreadable.
(Screen shot attached)
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Paula Petrik
Sent:
Jon,
If you read that spec yourself you will see:
To associate a label with another control implicitly, the control element must
be within the contents of the LABEL element.
However that is the HTML4 spec of what is valid, not the WCAG spec for what is
advisable (which I have quoted before) and
-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
snip
Underlined text should be reserved for links, and I think
this should
extend to the printed version of a web page.
I disagree - printed output is completely non-interactive. Links should
display the
I believe that Safari was the first browser to pass the acid test?
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy
snip
Acid2 is a test page, written to help browser vendors ensure proper
support for Web and related
Well if no-one else is going to say it, then I will have to:
Don't use Access Keys except on an Intranet site.
IF you do a quick Google search for 'Access Keys' and 'Bad' you should find
several articles which have researched the number of such keys that do not
clash with a Browser, OS or AT
Patrick,
I'm sure you are aware that the problem with Access Keys is not the
principle, but the potential interference with user agents. With an
Intranet you normally have control over which user agents are in use,
and can therefore ensure that the actual Access Keys that are used do
not
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that an employer
must make reasonable adjustments to accommodate specific problems affecting an
existing or new employee. For an adjustment to be required at that point, one
must assume that it is not necessary to fix problems that have no effect on
I'm afraid the link below proves quite the opposite: in IE6 there is
always a gap at the right hand side, even when the row has wrapped
around, which it does at random widths. Clearly a rounding error is
causing problems, which is exactly what most of us expected.
Incidentally, I have yet to
If no-one else is going to answer, then (at the risk of
starting a war) I will:
At this point in time I have no intention of even
acknowledging the existence of WCAG 2
I don't understand the rationale behind the main changes,
and don't think that anyone in WCAG understands how their
I think that JavaScript has more need of this notation than other languages,
precisely because of the weak typing. However, those who try and use the same
notation rules for say Java as for JavaScript are going to have trouble. I find
objNAME arrNAME etc useful, and things like txtNAME
None of these solutions have much to do with semantics, and none of them
appear to be fool-proof.
If at all possible, stick with the standards - CSS3 includes a
declaration for rounded corners, which has been supported by Mozilla for
a long time.
Mike
-Original Message-
From:
Bob,
I know that you didn't intend any offence, and I appreciate that I did
not give the answer that the poster was hoping for, but do I need to
remind everyone of the title of this forum?
As long as we fail to implement existing standards such as
border-radius, IE can legitimately say there is no
What is this doing that is incorrect? Are you using the
same tag more than once on a page and expecting a different random
number?
Regards,
Mike
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
nishakSent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:07 AMTo:
Sounds like you may have a problem with either one of your other CSS
rules or with the HTML structure - do you have an example page online?
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Able Net Design
Sent: Tuesday, August 08,
I agree - about the only reason I ever fire up Safari (for testing) is
to check whether I have got a drop-shadow correct.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dani
Nordin | 401.787.5178
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006
I often find myself using 'functional' class names for a handful of
specific tasks, but often these are used in parallel with semantic class
names, for example:
div class=navBar noPrint
.noPrint has only one simple rule, which I know will never change.
Similarly I occasionally use .leftAlign
Why do you have to use pure CSS? I would assume that you are trying to
do some sort of reveal later - a job that would probably be much better
handled by JavaScript.
Mike
-Original Message-
I'm trying to work with the following:
qOne plus two plus delthree plus four/del plus five
Then in that case I think you can do it with pure CSS: what you need to
do is ensure that you have a construct similar to:
span class=ellipsis.../spanspan class=literalTextLiteral
Text/span
Then you just need:
.ellipsis { display:none; }
on one page
and
.literalText { display:none;}
on the
I don't think that there is anything wrong in what you are suggesting here.
Apart from the fact that no normal browser is going to do anything with your
modified DTD. Some browsers will behave differently depending on what DTD you
specify, but I do not know of any that actually bother to
It is also good etiquette to make sure that you understand what the
author meant, before you attack them, however nicely. In this case, I
believe the intention was to point out a mis-written (bad) link, not as
you assumed a (properly written) link to an unsuitable site. While the
reason for the
Since no-one else has replied, perhaps I may ask why you would want to
do this?
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:05 AM
I'm curious to know if anyone here have
As far as I can see, DL's are not deprecated, but they probably should
be, as the vast majority of use cases are semantically incorrect. The
one you describe included; surely a vCard or other microformat is more
appropriate - the _definition_ of a particular company is a difficult
concept to
Title: In the 'Wow, if only everyone did this" category...
Sorry, too busy to reply - got to figure out how to work
this into one of my designs...
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom
LivingstonSent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:52 PMTo:
Actually, the reason that you can't see the text in any other browser is
due to the use of a drop shadow - something else that only Safari and
its siblings renders.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds
Sent:
That would appear to be a completely different beast, despite the
similarity of name.
When I tried the Safari-based Swift a month or so ago, I was able to
install it okay, but there seemed to be no way to configure a proxy,
which made it completely useless.
Mike
-Original Message-
I can't find the reference now, but I saw a report recently by someone
of the likes of Gartner, that reckoned it would take a year or so before
IE7 overtook IE6. All the same, no other browser release will have such
an immediate impact.
Mike
-Original Message-
Kevin Murphy wrote:
Very few large businesses have finished rolling out XP
yet!
Mike
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Navjot
PaweraSent: Friday, October 13, 2006 6:45 AMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Getting the layout to
work and
I think that you may want to read articles
like:
http://www.wats.ca/show.php?contentid=32
before you decide that access keys are useful - from memory
there are only three keys that do not clash with something else. In my opinion
the basic idea is flawed anyway - they are an attempt to fix a
Have you considered styling your LIs so that they sit side-by-side
within the list? Then you would have one single list, with list items
taking up 49% of the width of the list, giving the appearance of two
columns on screen, but only one physical list for accessibility.
I am sure there are many
Where do we send this?
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob
KirtonSent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:15 PMTo:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] Flash is more
accessible than CSS?
FAO Katie LedgerI (undoubtedly along
This looks little better to me than an advertising piece
for another (poor quality?) commercial service. I have no experience of this
company, but SiteMorse are probably the leaders in this field, and have courted
plenty of controversy along the way.
Any testing is better than no testing,
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Designer
Agreed, naturally. But can you point to an actual example of
how to do
this? Apart from the (complex) problems of avoiding Mr. Mrs. etc, I
often use PHP and this is riddled
Is there a good reason for doing this with JavaScript rather than doing
it server side?
Regards,
Mike
-Original Message-
Subject: [WSG] Using JS to expand Abbreviations
Demo:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/TJK_abbr_demo.asp
Article:
Thierry,
I don't know of an existing solution, but where static pages are
concerned, anything that can be done with JS can be done with PERL, PHP,
JSP or whatever. In this case, I am in two minds as to whether this
counts as 'progressive enhancement' or not. If it is, then JS is
acceptable (not
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kepler Gelotte
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Using JS to expand Abbreviations
I tend to disagree. I think trying to manipulate your HTML output by
I think it is a little early to be claiming consensus on this!
Correct me if I am wrong, but without this fix, most users will never
see the full form of the abbreviation. That seems like a little more
than just styling to me.
Mike
-Original Message-
From:
What is the point of leaving out the 'target' attribute if you are then
going to put it in via JavaScript? If it shouldn't be there then don't
use it - sneaking it in via a script seems rather pointless to me.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
Barney,
I am confused by this - did you download WebKit, or some other utility?
If it was just WebKit, then at least you know that the bug will be gone
from a future version of Safari !
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Barney,
Have a look at the second link on the left hand side of that site -
Surfin' Safari Blog - lots of references to Apple in there. Not 100%
sure of the exact relationship between WebKit and Safari releases, but
I'm sure you can find out if you look (I could have sworn it was in the
'About
On the other hand, one of the major plusses for Camino is that it is
more tightly integrated with the OS than FireFox is, so it also uses the
OSX form elements au-naturale. (And pays attention to the proxy settings
in the OS, which is rather handy on my laptop.) I think what you really
meant to
Just a thought - is the content overflowing the body - you have the body
defined as 100% so wide text should not stretch that box?
Mike
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston
Sent: Tuesday,
You do need to consider your audience though - most of the world puts
the day of the month before the month itself, the format you showed
would be confusing to many. This is one area where a date-picker is much
more useful, as it does not require the user to understand the date
format that you
I read quite an interesting conversation on a similar topic recently
(was it here? I'm not sure.)
One of the main things that came out was that in some circumstances a
visited link should be downplayed - no need to go there again, whereas
in other cases they should be played-up - to emphasise
First things first - what makes you think that Steve Krug designed the
cover of that book? My father has authored several books, and I can tell
you that he has a fairly low regard for the designers that produce his
covers, and routinely place items upside down etc.
To answer your query, I would
A very similar example would be bibliographic citations, though I
believe there are as many variations in common use as it is possible to
have!
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Ingram
Sent: Tuesday, January
cite is a single element.
A full bibliographic reference will typically contain a selection from:
Article name
Journal name
Authors name(s)
Editors name(s)
Date of publication
and probably a few other things. As you can see, each item needs to be
kept distinct from each other, so a single
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:38 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i
A suitable micro-format would be great, but the
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:10 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Legitimate uses of b and i
Might be worth looking at the work on the Microformats
Forget detecting screen readers - it is not possible: some of them sit
entirely on top of a standard browser, without affecting it directly.
You would have more chance detecting if a user was colour-blind!
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL
Tim,
As several other people have tried to explain, an HR is always used, in
printed media, as a separator or divider of some sort. It may be abused
for visual effect on the web, but in print it always has a semantic
meaning, even if it can be a little subtle and hard to define. Nobody
appear to
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rimantas Liubertas
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:46 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] HR tag and Semantics
Ok, let's take img src=linebreak.gif alt=Horizontal
One of the reasons that Mac Users do so, is the relatively consistent
interface, resulting in greater ease of use than the random artistic?
efforts of developers on other platforms.
For reference, it is basically only Firefox that has the audacity to
break those guidelines - Safari, iCab and
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of liorean
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 12:47 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] semantics : was-[HR tag and Semantics]
snip
div class=grouping
p/p
p/p
Do you intend to have more than one data column/row (plus headings?) if
so, then it is clearly a table, but if only one, then a list of some
kind is more appropriate. I would suggest that in this case there is
nothing wrong with a table whichever direction you choose to lay it out.
Another
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Wilson
snip
The physical structure of a page will often be entirely
different to the
logical structure
This is true, of course, but at the end of the day both versions
If you feel able to give them a choice, then leave them with their
normal choice, as it clearly _isn't _ essential to your application.
Regards,
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gaspar
Sent: Thursday, February 08,
I can't help feeling that a lot of people are missing the point here. It
really isn't anything to do with us developers whether to use XHTML2 or
HTML5 - that will be governed by which specifications are supported by
IE and Safari in the future. It may be that they disagree, and then we
will be
Lisa,
For a blind user, it is very annoying for a new window to open, breaking
the back button. If you want further evidence, there is plenty out
there, and pretty much all of it says don't use new windows
Mike
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
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