Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
2016-11-05 19:38 GMT+01:00 Stefan Bodewig : > On 2016-11-05, Joe wrote: > > >> If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and > raise your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things you'd > like to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, Dominik and > Stefan will be there to help. > > >> If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss > it and get it out of the way. > > > Looking through the log4net issue tracker, I find it difficult to pick > > out things to work on. > > > - There are an awful lot of open issues that have been open for a long > > time and are unassigned > > I've gone through them a long time ago when it looked like we had a plan > of moving forward - that's why you may find some issues assigned to > versions like 3.5 or 4. Reality has rendered those versions moot. > > > - Some of the ones I've looked through seem like they could be closed > > as Won't fix, Incomplete, Cannot Reproduce, Later or Not a Bug. Doing > > this might show that things are moving and be an incentive for people > > to get involved. > > Fine with me. So far I haven't closed any enhancement requests as I > thought somebody might pick it up. But at the same time I knew I > wouldn't be working on it. I've tried to keep up with real bug reports > and enhancement requests that came with a path - but likely failed to do > so as well. > > > - It would help to have a roadmap for the next couple of releases. > > For example, if we know that someone is working on a revamped > > RollingFileAppender, all issues related to RollingFileAppender should > > be assigned to them. > > The main reason we've lacked a roadmap so far is that we've been > reacting to reported bugs. I'd be happy if we could change this. Short > term I'd love to see us release 2.0.6 as a sign of life. > A long time ago I had started a reimplementation of the RollingFileAppender because we've seen that we cannot fix it without breaking compatibility or redefining its features. Most of the issues related to the RollingFileAppender should be marked as related issues to the rewrite issue. I dont have the issue id at hand, though. If you wanted to pick up that initial work and continue it would be awesome! Most probably I am going to jump in helping you because the RollingFileAppender is one of the most used features and therefore one of the crucial points where performance and sanity can make a difference of users moving away from log4net or attracting more users. > > > - Perhaps some of them need to be reprioritized, so that it's easier > > to focus on what is high priority and consistent with the roadmap. > > Current priorities are most likely the ones set by the reporters. Which > usually means everybody considers their issues the most important ones. > I tend to prioritize recent reports because the reporters of those old issues most likely have found a workaround or moved to another logging framework. Those issues are most likely to be closed because they are not reproducable. -- Dominik Psenner
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-11-05, Joe wrote: >> If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and raise >> your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things you'd like >> to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, Dominik and Stefan >> will be there to help. >> If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss it >> and get it out of the way. > Looking through the log4net issue tracker, I find it difficult to pick > out things to work on. > - There are an awful lot of open issues that have been open for a long > time and are unassigned I've gone through them a long time ago when it looked like we had a plan of moving forward - that's why you may find some issues assigned to versions like 3.5 or 4. Reality has rendered those versions moot. > - Some of the ones I've looked through seem like they could be closed > as Won't fix, Incomplete, Cannot Reproduce, Later or Not a Bug. Doing > this might show that things are moving and be an incentive for people > to get involved. Fine with me. So far I haven't closed any enhancement requests as I thought somebody might pick it up. But at the same time I knew I wouldn't be working on it. I've tried to keep up with real bug reports and enhancement requests that came with a path - but likely failed to do so as well. > - It would help to have a roadmap for the next couple of releases. > For example, if we know that someone is working on a revamped > RollingFileAppender, all issues related to RollingFileAppender should > be assigned to them. The main reason we've lacked a roadmap so far is that we've been reacting to reported bugs. I'd be happy if we could change this. Short term I'd love to see us release 2.0.6 as a sign of life. > - Perhaps some of them need to be reprioritized, so that it's easier > to focus on what is high priority and consistent with the roadmap. Current priorities are most likely the ones set by the reporters. Which usually means everybody considers their issues the most important ones. Stefan
RE: Apache log4net Needs Help
> If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and raise > your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things you'd like to > work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, Dominik and Stefan > will be there to help. > If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss it and > get it out of the way. Looking through the log4net issue tracker, I find it difficult to pick out things to work on. - There are an awful lot of open issues that have been open for a long time and are unassigned - Some of the ones I've looked through seem like they could be closed as Won't fix, Incomplete, Cannot Reproduce, Later or Not a Bug. Doing this might show that things are moving and be an incentive for people to get involved. - It would help to have a roadmap for the next couple of releases. For example, if we know that someone is working on a revamped RollingFileAppender, all issues related to RollingFileAppender should be assigned to them. - Perhaps some of them need to be reprioritized, so that it's easier to focus on what is high priority and consistent with the roadmap.
Re: AsyncAppender (was Re: Apache log4net Needs Help)
Hi Nicholas On 2016-11-01, Nicholas Duane wrote: > Got some questions around this. I was hoping that if I put the call > to LogManager.Shutdown() in my application it might call Close() on > all the appenders. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. That's what I would have expected as well. This is code I've never touched and I'm not familiar with the implementation choices back then, but LogManager.Shutdown() leads to Logger.CloseNestedAppenders() which only closes Appenders that are IAppenderAttachable. I'm what to make from this myself. > Not sure if the Flush() you talk about is something that might have > solved my problem. At least it is going to Flush all appenders. > I checked over the links you provided. One talks about implementing a > queue in an async appender so that each developer wouldn't have to do > it. While that certainly sounds like a good thing to do, even this > implementation would need to flush its queue, or at least do as much > as it could in the time allotted, when the process shuts down. That > is the main point I'm trying to bring up as my appender has its own > queue but the Close() method doesn't give me any significant amount of > time to flush my queue and thus I'm losing events. Ideas for a new implementation of the AsyncAppender are currently discussed on the dev mailing list. Stefan
Re: AsyncAppender (was Re: Apache log4net Needs Help)
Got some questions around this. I was hoping that if I put the call to LogManager.Shutdown() in my application it might call Close() on all the appenders. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. Not sure if the Flush() you talk about is something that might have solved my problem. I checked over the links you provided. One talks about implementing a queue in an async appender so that each developer wouldn't have to do it. While that certainly sounds like a good thing to do, even this implementation would need to flush its queue, or at least do as much as it could in the time allotted, when the process shuts down. That is the main point I'm trying to bring up as my appender has its own queue but the Close() method doesn't give me any significant amount of time to flush my queue and thus I'm losing events. One of the links also provides an AsyncAppender implementation which the author claims will address the problem of lost events on shutdown, but it appears to use the Close() method to shutdown cleanly, which I would assume suffers from the same problem I experienced. Namely, the Close() method appears to be called from log4net by way of syncing the .NET app domain shutdown event. At that point you're not given any time to cleanup. Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 7:32 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: AsyncAppender (was Re: Apache log4net Needs Help) On 2016-10-16, Nicholas Duane wrote: > By the way, what's the state of async appenders in log4net? This is one of the things I'd love people to get involved in. We've got * a simple implementation inside the sample * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET-190 * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET-201 * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET-407 the later even made it into the 1.3 branch (that's now been abandoned). It would be good if anybody found the time to make it work inside the current trunk setup. So there are few implementations. They may share the problem mentioned here > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36344822/log4net-appenders-onclose-doesnt-seem-to-work I haven't checked. > Seems like log4net should not only expose a startup routine the app > must call but also a shutdown routine, and indicate that it's > essential it gets called. Then log4net could shutdown the appenders > in the shutdown routine as opposed to relying on .NET's appdomain > shutdown logic. There are Shutdown methods in LogManager and LoggerManager. The patch Joe mentions that add Flush to certain appenders and to LogManager has been added to svn trunk and will be part of 2.0.6 (which will be the version of the next release). Stefan
AsyncAppender (was Re: Apache log4net Needs Help)
On 2016-10-16, Nicholas Duane wrote: > By the way, what's the state of async appenders in log4net? This is one of the things I'd love people to get involved in. We've got * a simple implementation inside the sample * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET-190 * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET-201 * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET-407 the later even made it into the 1.3 branch (that's now been abandoned). It would be good if anybody found the time to make it work inside the current trunk setup. So there are few implementations. They may share the problem mentioned here > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36344822/log4net-appenders-onclose-doesnt-seem-to-work I haven't checked. > Seems like log4net should not only expose a startup routine the app > must call but also a shutdown routine, and indicate that it's > essential it gets called. Then log4net could shutdown the appenders > in the shutdown routine as opposed to relying on .NET's appdomain > shutdown logic. There are Shutdown methods in LogManager and LoggerManager. The patch Joe mentions that add Flush to certain appenders and to LogManager has been added to svn trunk and will be part of 2.0.6 (which will be the version of the next release). Stefan
RE: Apache log4net Needs Help
I'm interested in this as I've also written an async appender. Mine is currently lossy both at application shutdown and when the application floods it with events faster than it can process them, so to date I haven't been too concerned by this issue. Do you have an MCVE (http://stackoverflow.com/help/mcve) for the problem you describe in your StackOverflow post? If so I'd be happy to take a look. Log4net already exposes a shutdown routine (LogManager.Shutdown()). If pull request #37 (https://github.com/apache/log4net/pull/37) is implemented, your app could also call LogManager.Flush at shutdown. A comment in RemotingAppender.OnClose, which is asynchronous, implies that queued background threads may not complete if called from the ProcessExit event (total execution time of ProcessExit event handlers limited to 2 seonds by default). From: Nicholas Duane [mailto:nic...@msn.com] Sent: 16 October 2016 04:23 To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help By the way, what's the state of async appenders in log4net? I ask because the guys pushing nlog over here say that one reason they like nlog is that is allows for async operation. I assumed log4net supports that also, however when I attempted to do some async stuff in log4net I did run into problems: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36344822/log4net-appenders-onclose-doesnt-seem-to-work Seems like log4net should not only expose a startup routine the app must call but also a shutdown routine, and indicate that it's essential it gets called. Then log4net could shutdown the appenders in the shutdown routine as opposed to relying on .NET's appdomain shutdown logic. Thanks, Nick
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
By the way, what's the state of async appenders in log4net? I ask because the guys pushing nlog over here say that one reason they like nlog is that is allows for async operation. I assumed log4net supports that also, however when I attempted to do some async stuff in log4net I did run into problems: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36344822/log4net-appenders-onclose-doesnt-seem-to-work Seems like log4net should not only expose a startup routine the app must call but also a shutdown routine, and indicate that it's essential it gets called. Then log4net could shutdown the appenders in the shutdown routine as opposed to relying on .NET's appdomain shutdown logic. Thanks, Nick From: Nicholas Duane Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:28 PM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help >Whether a log4j2 port happens or not really is decided by the people who >are willing and able to invest the time needed. The same is true for any >other decision we take. There is no "business plan" for log4net, those >who do the work decide about what gets done. Wow. So the developers are going to decide the feature in the product? I would have thought, and hoped, that the apache foundation, would be making the strategic decision on product direction. As I mentioned, it's my opinion that there should be a single logging architecture/design which is ported to both linux/java and windows/.net. Anything else doesn't make sense, at least to me. Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:06 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help On 2016-10-04, Nicholas Duane wrote: > While I realize resources are needed to make any changes to the code base, > even if resources are/become available it's yet another (big?) decision on > whether the changes that are made to log4net are ones which will take it off > into its own direction or whether a new version of log4net is created which > is a port of lo4j2. Absolutely. That's why I qualified it with "who want to do the porting work" :-) Whether a log4j2 port happens or not really is decided by the people who are willing and able to invest the time needed. The same is true for any other decision we take. There is no "business plan" for log4net, those who do the work decide about what gets done. I hear you and I understand why a log4net closer to log4j2 might be attractive but I am completely unable to devote the time needed for something that would more or less amount in a rewrite. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-10-04, Nicholas Duane wrote: >> Whether a log4j2 port happens or not really is decided by the people who >> are willing and able to invest the time needed. The same is true for any >> other decision we take. There is no "business plan" for log4net, those >> who do the work decide about what gets done. > Wow. So the developers are going to decide the feature in the > product? Right. This is open source ;-) > I would have thought, and hoped, that the apache foundation, would be > making the strategic decision on product direction. No, this would be a misconception. "The Apache Software Foundation" provides infrastructure and the legal framework for its projects, any other decision is delegated to "the project". And "the project" is, in the end, the group of developers working on it. Many of the active people at the ASF I know - including myself - wouldn't be here if there were other people who told them what to work on. Most of us are volunteers spending their spare time. > As I mentioned, it's my opinion that there should be a single logging > architecture/design which is ported to both linux/java and windows/.net. > Anything else doesn't make sense, at least to me. This is a discussion to have on the gene...@logging.apache.org. The groups of people working on log4net and log4j are more or less disjunct. It took a long time to carve out log4j 2.x (and pain, if my remote observations are correct) and log4net hasn't been following it at all - most likely because we haven't had enough people with enough time looking after log4net back then as well. I understand your point, but one consequence would likely be that log4j was slowed down by log4net if we were striving for feature parity. Slowed down severly. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
>Whether a log4j2 port happens or not really is decided by the people who >are willing and able to invest the time needed. The same is true for any >other decision we take. There is no "business plan" for log4net, those >who do the work decide about what gets done. Wow. So the developers are going to decide the feature in the product? I would have thought, and hoped, that the apache foundation, would be making the strategic decision on product direction. As I mentioned, it's my opinion that there should be a single logging architecture/design which is ported to both linux/java and windows/.net. Anything else doesn't make sense, at least to me. Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:06 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help On 2016-10-04, Nicholas Duane wrote: > While I realize resources are needed to make any changes to the code base, > even if resources are/become available it's yet another (big?) decision on > whether the changes that are made to log4net are ones which will take it off > into its own direction or whether a new version of log4net is created which > is a port of lo4j2. Absolutely. That's why I qualified it with "who want to do the porting work" :-) Whether a log4j2 port happens or not really is decided by the people who are willing and able to invest the time needed. The same is true for any other decision we take. There is no "business plan" for log4net, those who do the work decide about what gets done. I hear you and I understand why a log4net closer to log4j2 might be attractive but I am completely unable to devote the time needed for something that would more or less amount in a rewrite. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-10-04, Nicholas Duane wrote: > While I realize resources are needed to make any changes to the code base, > even if resources are/become available it's yet another (big?) decision on > whether the changes that are made to log4net are ones which will take it off > into its own direction or whether a new version of log4net is created which > is a port of lo4j2. Absolutely. That's why I qualified it with "who want to do the porting work" :-) Whether a log4j2 port happens or not really is decided by the people who are willing and able to invest the time needed. The same is true for any other decision we take. There is no "business plan" for log4net, those who do the work decide about what gets done. I hear you and I understand why a log4net closer to log4j2 might be attractive but I am completely unable to devote the time needed for something that would more or less amount in a rewrite. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
Thanks. While I realize resources are needed to make any changes to the code base, even if resources are/become available it's yet another (big?) decision on whether the changes that are made to log4net are ones which will take it off into its own direction or whether a new version of log4net is created which is a port of lo4j2. Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 12:18 AM To: log4net-user@logging.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help On 2016-10-03, Nicholas Duane wrote: > Just curious if anyone has any feedback? I think I've written this before, but in case I haven't: Whether a port of log4j 2.x will happen depends on whether people show up who want to do the porting work. This hasn't happened, yet. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-10-03, Nicholas Duane wrote: > Just curious if anyone has any feedback? I think I've written this before, but in case I haven't: Whether a port of log4j 2.x will happen depends on whether people show up who want to do the porting work. This hasn't happened, yet. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
Thanks for the reply. I'm not looking for anyone to give me reasons to go with log4net, I have already made that decision. Since it seems there's interest as of late to find more resources to provide enhancements to log4net I wanted to voice my concern over diverging from log4j(2). As I mentioned, I think one of the major benefits of log4net was its relation to log4j. That was a big reason for me picking log4net over nlog. I realize others might not have the same reasons, but I would find it hard to believe that if you're working in a large enterprise with applications on both Windows/.NET and Linux/Java and you're looking to adopt a logging framework, that having similar frameworks across the two platforms would not be a big benefit. So I guess I'm bringing this up for selfish reasons. I want to see log4net become a port of log4j2. And I wouldn't mind helping with that effort. But I would not be interested in helping if log4net is going off in its own direction since that is a bad idea in my opinion. Thanks, Nick From: Dominik Psenner Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 2:49 AM To: log4net-user@logging.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help One thing to note is that the development of a stable logging framework is rather slow. I would not want the most stable (in regards of features and API) part of a software to need regular updates. This is one of the main reasons why we mainly focus on stability issues. The lack of manpower influences the development of new features. There are a few ideas/issues that we would like to address, but with the estimated efforts we are unable to complete these tasks in the near future. Note, too, that nobody here is going to sell you log4net as the logging framework that works for you. It is (probably) your task to find a solution that works for you. That said, I usually implement a logging facade in every project unless the project is too small or short-lived. This allows us to decouple the application from third party dependencies and increases maintainability. Until now we never had to change the logging framework but nobody can predict the future and it is better to have yet another layer of abstraction than having to refactor thousands of logging statements anytime in the future. Beside that, what kind of feedback do you expect? I will gladly answer your questions. Best regards Dominik On 03/10/2016 04:21, Nicholas Duane wrote: Just curious if anyone has any feedback? One reason I ask is because I again just got an email from someone in my group and it's in reference to the COE (Center Of Excellence) team wanting to recommend nlog for the enterprise for logging on Windows/.NET. Thanks, Nick From: Nicholas Duane <mailto:nic...@msn.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:03 AM To: log4net-user@logging.apache.org<mailto:log4net-user@logging.apache.org> Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Maybe a bit of history would help. We had written our own logging framework a while back, prior to the launch of .NET. It was a Windows only framework which under the covers used ETW (Event Trace for Windows), a very high performance logging mechanism which is used by the Windows kernel and other Microsoft products, like SQL Server. Shortly after .NET was launched we created a managed interface for that. That was running fine for 10+ years and is still running fine. More recently we had the need to capture a specific type of event across many application in the enterprise. While we could have attempted to use our existing logging framework we would have needed to extend it for a couple reasons: 1. It was a Windows only framework and we would need to support both Windows and Java, the majority of Java applications running on Linux. 2. It currently exposed a fixed set of events that could be raised. This new event would have to be added to the fixed set or we would have had to open up the API and allow the consumer to specify their own schema. 3. It captured the events in a relational database. We want to route this new event to an HDFS backend. We decided to look at off the shelf logging frameworks instead of creating one of our own. While there are several logging frameworks on the java side, log4j/log4j2 appeared to be the clear winner. On the .NET side there was no "clear" winner. We looked at System.Diagnostics (the logging/tracing classes provided by .NET), nlog, log4net and Enterprise Logging (the application block). From that list only nlog and log4net were viable options. One of the major issues people had with log4net was the fact that it appeared it had been abandoned, which I guess it was. The 1.2.13 release had been out for more than 2 years I think. In fact, our .NET Center of Excellence team was recommending nlog for .NET and
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
One thing to note is that the development of a stable logging framework is rather slow. I would not want the most stable (in regards of features and API) part of a software to need regular updates. This is one of the main reasons why we mainly focus on stability issues. The lack of manpower influences the development of new features. There are a few ideas/issues that we would like to address, but with the estimated efforts we are unable to complete these tasks in the near future. Note, too, that nobody here is going to sell you log4net as the logging framework that works for you. It is (probably) your task to find a solution that works for you. That said, I usually implement a logging facade in every project unless the project is too small or short-lived. This allows us to decouple the application from third party dependencies and increases maintainability. Until now we never had to change the logging framework but nobody can predict the future and it is better to have yet another layer of abstraction than having to refactor thousands of logging statements anytime in the future. Beside that, what kind of feedback do you expect? I will gladly answer your questions. Best regards Dominik On 03/10/2016 04:21, Nicholas Duane wrote: Just curious if anyone has any feedback? One reason I ask is because I again just got an email from someone in my group and it's in reference to the COE (Center Of Excellence) team wanting to recommend nlog for the enterprise for logging on Windows/.NET. Thanks, Nick *From:* Nicholas Duane *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:03 AM *To:* log4net-user@logging.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Maybe a bit of history would help. We had written our own logging framework a while back, prior to the launch of .NET. It was a Windows only framework which under the covers used ETW (Event Trace for Windows), a very high performance logging mechanism which is used by the Windows kernel and other Microsoft products, like SQL Server. Shortly after .NET was launched we created a managed interface for that. That was running fine for 10+ years and is still running fine. More recently we had the need to capture a specific type of event across many application in the enterprise. While we could have attempted to use our existing logging framework we would have needed to extend it for a couple reasons: 1. It was a Windows only framework and we would need to support both Windows and Java, the majority of Java applications running on Linux. 2. It currently exposed a fixed set of events that could be raised. This new event would have to be added to the fixed set or we would have had to open up the API and allow the consumer to specify their own schema. 3. It captured the events in a relational database. We want to route this new event to an HDFS backend. We decided to look at off the shelf logging frameworks instead of creating one of our own. While there are several logging frameworks on the java side, log4j/log4j2 appeared to be the clear winner. On the .NET side there was no "clear" winner. We looked at System.Diagnostics (the logging/tracing classes provided by .NET), nlog, log4net and Enterprise Logging (the application block). From that list only nlog and log4net were viable options. One of the major issues people had with log4net was the fact that it appeared it had been abandoned, which I guess it was. The 1.2.13 release had been out for more than 2 years I think. In fact, our .NET Center of Excellence team was recommending nlog for .NET and I think one of the main reasons for that was the lack of development on log4net. There were a few things I liked about log4net. * The fact that it was a port of log4j I saw as a benefit. If I'm looking for a logging framework for both .net and java and I can get the same framework that works on both that's ideal. It means both would roughly have the same or similar API and features. Ideally the configuration is the same or similar for both. * I'm pretty sure I looked over the nlog api and didn't like it as much as the log4net api. * I also liked, and thought was a key feature, the "logger" inheritance feature of both log4net and log4j(2). Thanks, Nick *From:* Dominik Psenner *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:26 AM *To:* log4net-user@logging.apache.org *Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help That's an interesting point. Would you mind to share your thoughts and reasons why you picked log4net over other logging frameworks beyond being a log4j port? On 2016-09-20 01:30, Nicholas Duane wrote: I can understand the breaking changes thing, but my impression is that straying from the log4j design is a bad idea.
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
Just curious if anyone has any feedback? One reason I ask is because I again just got an email from someone in my group and it's in reference to the COE (Center Of Excellence) team wanting to recommend nlog for the enterprise for logging on Windows/.NET. Thanks, Nick From: Nicholas Duane Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:03 AM To: log4net-user@logging.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Maybe a bit of history would help. We had written our own logging framework a while back, prior to the launch of .NET. It was a Windows only framework which under the covers used ETW (Event Trace for Windows), a very high performance logging mechanism which is used by the Windows kernel and other Microsoft products, like SQL Server. Shortly after .NET was launched we created a managed interface for that. That was running fine for 10+ years and is still running fine. More recently we had the need to capture a specific type of event across many application in the enterprise. While we could have attempted to use our existing logging framework we would have needed to extend it for a couple reasons: 1. It was a Windows only framework and we would need to support both Windows and Java, the majority of Java applications running on Linux. 2. It currently exposed a fixed set of events that could be raised. This new event would have to be added to the fixed set or we would have had to open up the API and allow the consumer to specify their own schema. 3. It captured the events in a relational database. We want to route this new event to an HDFS backend. We decided to look at off the shelf logging frameworks instead of creating one of our own. While there are several logging frameworks on the java side, log4j/log4j2 appeared to be the clear winner. On the .NET side there was no "clear" winner. We looked at System.Diagnostics (the logging/tracing classes provided by .NET), nlog, log4net and Enterprise Logging (the application block). From that list only nlog and log4net were viable options. One of the major issues people had with log4net was the fact that it appeared it had been abandoned, which I guess it was. The 1.2.13 release had been out for more than 2 years I think. In fact, our .NET Center of Excellence team was recommending nlog for .NET and I think one of the main reasons for that was the lack of development on log4net. There were a few things I liked about log4net. * The fact that it was a port of log4j I saw as a benefit. If I'm looking for a logging framework for both .net and java and I can get the same framework that works on both that's ideal. It means both would roughly have the same or similar API and features. Ideally the configuration is the same or similar for both. * I'm pretty sure I looked over the nlog api and didn't like it as much as the log4net api. * I also liked, and thought was a key feature, the "logger" inheritance feature of both log4net and log4j(2). Thanks, Nick From: Dominik Psenner Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:26 AM To: log4net-user@logging.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help That's an interesting point. Would you mind to share your thoughts and reasons why you picked log4net over other logging frameworks beyond being a log4j port? On 2016-09-20 01:30, Nicholas Duane wrote: I can understand the breaking changes thing, but my impression is that straying from the log4j design is a bad idea. What I think would be ideal is an apache logging architecture/design and then ports to java, log4j, and .NET, log4net. One of the big benefits I see is having "relatively" the same logging framework run on both major platforms. The one reason we picked log4net is because we chose lo4j2 on java. And having similar design was a benefit. If we evaluated log4net on its own I'm not sure we would have picked it. Thanks, Nick From: Walden H. Leverich <mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:49 PM To: Log4NET User Subject: RE: Apache log4net Needs Help > Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest > log4j2? Maybe this is a discussion for the dev list, and granted I haven’t looked at what the changes are in log4j2, but my gut reaction is that a new port might be a bad idea. Yes, log4net started as a port of log4j (or at least that’s my understanding) but it’s a mature logging framework in its own right today with a huge user base and numerous production deployments. A new “port” sounds to me like it’s synonymous with breaking changes and that’s a colossally bad idea. Are there things we can learn from the latest log4j2? Of course there are. Maybe there should be a log4net2 project? I don’t know. But whatever the evo
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
Maybe a bit of history would help. We had written our own logging framework a while back, prior to the launch of .NET. It was a Windows only framework which under the covers used ETW (Event Trace for Windows), a very high performance logging mechanism which is used by the Windows kernel and other Microsoft products, like SQL Server. Shortly after .NET was launched we created a managed interface for that. That was running fine for 10+ years and is still running fine. More recently we had the need to capture a specific type of event across many application in the enterprise. While we could have attempted to use our existing logging framework we would have needed to extend it for a couple reasons: 1. It was a Windows only framework and we would need to support both Windows and Java, the majority of Java applications running on Linux. 2. It currently exposed a fixed set of events that could be raised. This new event would have to be added to the fixed set or we would have had to open up the API and allow the consumer to specify their own schema. 3. It captured the events in a relational database. We want to route this new event to an HDFS backend. We decided to look at off the shelf logging frameworks instead of creating one of our own. While there are several logging frameworks on the java side, log4j/log4j2 appeared to be the clear winner. On the .NET side there was no "clear" winner. We looked at System.Diagnostics (the logging/tracing classes provided by .NET), nlog, log4net and Enterprise Logging (the application block). From that list only nlog and log4net were viable options. One of the major issues people had with log4net was the fact that it appeared it had been abandoned, which I guess it was. The 1.2.13 release had been out for more than 2 years I think. In fact, our .NET Center of Excellence team was recommending nlog for .NET and I think one of the main reasons for that was the lack of development on log4net. There were a few things I liked about log4net. * The fact that it was a port of log4j I saw as a benefit. If I'm looking for a logging framework for both .net and java and I can get the same framework that works on both that's ideal. It means both would roughly have the same or similar API and features. Ideally the configuration is the same or similar for both. * I'm pretty sure I looked over the nlog api and didn't like it as much as the log4net api. * I also liked, and thought was a key feature, the "logger" inheritance feature of both log4net and log4j(2). Thanks, Nick From: Dominik Psenner Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:26 AM To: log4net-user@logging.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help That's an interesting point. Would you mind to share your thoughts and reasons why you picked log4net over other logging frameworks beyond being a log4j port? On 2016-09-20 01:30, Nicholas Duane wrote: I can understand the breaking changes thing, but my impression is that straying from the log4j design is a bad idea. What I think would be ideal is an apache logging architecture/design and then ports to java, log4j, and .NET, log4net. One of the big benefits I see is having "relatively" the same logging framework run on both major platforms. The one reason we picked log4net is because we chose lo4j2 on java. And having similar design was a benefit. If we evaluated log4net on its own I'm not sure we would have picked it. Thanks, Nick From: Walden H. Leverich <mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:49 PM To: Log4NET User Subject: RE: Apache log4net Needs Help > Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest > log4j2? Maybe this is a discussion for the dev list, and granted I haven’t looked at what the changes are in log4j2, but my gut reaction is that a new port might be a bad idea. Yes, log4net started as a port of log4j (or at least that’s my understanding) but it’s a mature logging framework in its own right today with a huge user base and numerous production deployments. A new “port” sounds to me like it’s synonymous with breaking changes and that’s a colossally bad idea. Are there things we can learn from the latest log4j2? Of course there are. Maybe there should be a log4net2 project? I don’t know. But whatever the evolution is of log4net it needs to be something that isn’t so revolutionary as to cause me to reevaluate my logging infrastructure. -Walden -- Walden H Leverich III (516) 627-3800 x3051 wald...@techsoftinc.com<mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com> From: Nicholas Duane [mailto:nic...@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:19 AM To: Log4NET User <mailto:log4net-user@logging.apache.org> Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help I had ask
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
That's an interesting point. Would you mind to share your thoughts and reasons why you picked log4net over other logging frameworks beyond being a log4j port? On 2016-09-20 01:30, Nicholas Duane wrote: I can understand the breaking changes thing, but my impression is that straying from the log4j design is a bad idea. What I think would be ideal is an apache logging architecture/design and then ports to java, log4j, and .NET, log4net. One of the big benefits I see is having "relatively" the same logging framework run on both major platforms. The one reason we picked log4net is because we chose lo4j2 on java. And having similar design was a benefit. If we evaluated log4net on its own I'm not sure we would have picked it. Thanks, Nick *From:* Walden H. Leverich *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 3:49 PM *To:* Log4NET User *Subject:* RE: Apache log4net Needs Help >Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest log4j2? Maybe this is a discussion for the dev list, and granted I haven’t looked at what the changes are in log4j2, but my gut reaction is that a new port might be a bad idea. Yes, log4net started as a port of log4j (or at least that’s my understanding) but it’s a mature logging framework in its own right today with a huge user base and numerous production deployments. A new “port” sounds to me like it’s synonymous with breaking changes and that’s a colossally bad idea. Are there things we can learn from the latest log4j2? Of course there are. Maybe there should be a log4net2 project? I don’t know. But whatever the evolution is of log4net it needs to be something that isn’t so revolutionary as to cause me to reevaluate my logging infrastructure. -Walden -- Walden H Leverich III (516) 627-3800 x3051 wald...@techsoftinc.com <mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com> *From:*Nicholas Duane [mailto:nic...@msn.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:19 AM *To:* Log4NET User *Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help I had asked about this in the past and I figured I would ask again after seeing this mail. Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest log4j2? Thanks, Nick *From:*Stefan Bodewig mailto:bode...@apache.org>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:32 AM *To:* Log4NET User *Subject:* Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Welcome! even though the official build system currently is NAnt, development with your setup is supposed to work (if it doesn't, it is a bug). The first thing you should do is to join the log4net-dev mailing list. I think we need help in virtually any area - fixing bug, discussing changes, documentation, testing ... you name it. In general you pick what you want to work on, nobody is going to assign work to anybody else. We are all doing this in our spare time and it is supposed to be fun :-) You may want to take a look at the JIRA issues to see whether you find anything you'd like to work on. You know better than anybody else where you can use your talent best - and what would be interesting to you. Cheers Stefan On 2016-09-13, Shivinder Singh wrote: > Hello, > I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If there is anything I can do let me know. > Thanks, > Shivinder Singh >> 1-409-330-3608 > shivindersi...@hotmail.com <mailto:shivindersi...@hotmail.com> >> From: bode...@apache.org <mailto:bode...@apache.org> >> To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4net-...@logging.apache.org> >> Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help >> CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org <mailto:log4net-user@logging.apache.org>; gene...@logging.apache.org <mailto:gene...@logging.apache.org>; d...@lucenenet.apache.org <mailto:d...@lucenenet.apache.org> >> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200 >> This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their >> logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are >> using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get >> involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! >> We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at >> the Apache Software Foundation. >> In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more >> than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three >> people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source >> projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the >> amount of time they could invest have changed. >> At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people >>
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
I can understand the breaking changes thing, but my impression is that straying from the log4j design is a bad idea. What I think would be ideal is an apache logging architecture/design and then ports to java, log4j, and .NET, log4net. One of the big benefits I see is having "relatively" the same logging framework run on both major platforms. The one reason we picked log4net is because we chose lo4j2 on java. And having similar design was a benefit. If we evaluated log4net on its own I'm not sure we would have picked it. Thanks, Nick From: Walden H. Leverich Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:49 PM To: Log4NET User Subject: RE: Apache log4net Needs Help > Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest > log4j2? Maybe this is a discussion for the dev list, and granted I haven’t looked at what the changes are in log4j2, but my gut reaction is that a new port might be a bad idea. Yes, log4net started as a port of log4j (or at least that’s my understanding) but it’s a mature logging framework in its own right today with a huge user base and numerous production deployments. A new “port” sounds to me like it’s synonymous with breaking changes and that’s a colossally bad idea. Are there things we can learn from the latest log4j2? Of course there are. Maybe there should be a log4net2 project? I don’t know. But whatever the evolution is of log4net it needs to be something that isn’t so revolutionary as to cause me to reevaluate my logging infrastructure. -Walden -- Walden H Leverich III (516) 627-3800 x3051 wald...@techsoftinc.com<mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com> From: Nicholas Duane [mailto:nic...@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:19 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help I had asked about this in the past and I figured I would ask again after seeing this mail. Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest log4j2? Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig mailto:bode...@apache.org>> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:32 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Welcome! even though the official build system currently is NAnt, development with your setup is supposed to work (if it doesn't, it is a bug). The first thing you should do is to join the log4net-dev mailing list. I think we need help in virtually any area - fixing bug, discussing changes, documentation, testing ... you name it. In general you pick what you want to work on, nobody is going to assign work to anybody else. We are all doing this in our spare time and it is supposed to be fun :-) You may want to take a look at the JIRA issues to see whether you find anything you'd like to work on. You know better than anybody else where you can use your talent best - and what would be interesting to you. Cheers Stefan On 2016-09-13, Shivinder Singh wrote: > Hello, > I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If there is > anything I can do let me know. > Thanks, > Shivinder Singh >> 1-409-330-3608 > shivindersi...@hotmail.com<mailto:shivindersi...@hotmail.com> >> From: bode...@apache.org<mailto:bode...@apache.org> >> To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org<mailto:log4net-...@logging.apache.org> >> Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help >> CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org<mailto:log4net-user@logging.apache.org>; >> gene...@logging.apache.org<mailto:gene...@logging.apache.org>; >> d...@lucenenet.apache.org<mailto:d...@lucenenet.apache.org> >> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200 >> This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their >> logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are >> using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get >> involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! >> We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at >> the Apache Software Foundation. >> In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more >> than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three >> people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source >> projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the >> amount of time they could invest have changed. >> At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people >> semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote >> as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be >> required. >> Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new >> features is not going to happe
RE: Apache log4net Needs Help
> Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest > log4j2? Maybe this is a discussion for the dev list, and granted I haven't looked at what the changes are in log4j2, but my gut reaction is that a new port might be a bad idea. Yes, log4net started as a port of log4j (or at least that's my understanding) but it's a mature logging framework in its own right today with a huge user base and numerous production deployments. A new "port" sounds to me like it's synonymous with breaking changes and that's a colossally bad idea. Are there things we can learn from the latest log4j2? Of course there are. Maybe there should be a log4net2 project? I don't know. But whatever the evolution is of log4net it needs to be something that isn't so revolutionary as to cause me to reevaluate my logging infrastructure. -Walden -- Walden H Leverich III (516) 627-3800 x3051 wald...@techsoftinc.com<mailto:wald...@techsoftinc.com> From: Nicholas Duane [mailto:nic...@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 9:19 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help I had asked about this in the past and I figured I would ask again after seeing this mail. Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest log4j2? Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig mailto:bode...@apache.org>> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:32 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Welcome! even though the official build system currently is NAnt, development with your setup is supposed to work (if it doesn't, it is a bug). The first thing you should do is to join the log4net-dev mailing list. I think we need help in virtually any area - fixing bug, discussing changes, documentation, testing ... you name it. In general you pick what you want to work on, nobody is going to assign work to anybody else. We are all doing this in our spare time and it is supposed to be fun :-) You may want to take a look at the JIRA issues to see whether you find anything you'd like to work on. You know better than anybody else where you can use your talent best - and what would be interesting to you. Cheers Stefan On 2016-09-13, Shivinder Singh wrote: > Hello, > I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If there is > anything I can do let me know. > Thanks, > Shivinder Singh >> 1-409-330-3608 > shivindersi...@hotmail.com<mailto:shivindersi...@hotmail.com> >> From: bode...@apache.org<mailto:bode...@apache.org> >> To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org<mailto:log4net-...@logging.apache.org> >> Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help >> CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org<mailto:log4net-user@logging.apache.org>; >> gene...@logging.apache.org<mailto:gene...@logging.apache.org>; >> d...@lucenenet.apache.org<mailto:d...@lucenenet.apache.org> >> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200 >> This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their >> logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are >> using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get >> involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! >> We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at >> the Apache Software Foundation. >> In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more >> than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three >> people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source >> projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the >> amount of time they could invest have changed. >> At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people >> semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote >> as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be >> required. >> Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new >> features is not going to happen. >> This has repeatedly made log4net lag behind recent developments in the >> .NET world. It took a long time to get a version out that properly >> worked with .NET 4.0 in 2011 and adaptions to .NET 4.5 also took much >> longer than many users would have wished. We are seeing it again with >> .NET Core right now. In addition there are many unresolved issues in >> log4net's JIRA. >> Despite this there are more than 2500 downloads of the logging >> framework every day from nuget. We are asking you, the log4net >> community, to get your hands dirty. >> Right now we are in the process of creating a log4net release that >>
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-09-14, Nicholas Duane wrote: > I had asked about this in the past and I figured I would ask again > after seeing this mail. Any chance that we'll get a log4net version > which is a "port" of the latest log4j2? If and only if we get enough people to do it, sure. Anything is possible if people show up who want to help - it will be these people who decide what is going to happen. Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
I had asked about this in the past and I figured I would ask again after seeing this mail. Any chance that we'll get a log4net version which is a "port" of the latest log4j2? Thanks, Nick From: Stefan Bodewig Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:32 AM To: Log4NET User Subject: Re: Apache log4net Needs Help Welcome! even though the official build system currently is NAnt, development with your setup is supposed to work (if it doesn't, it is a bug). The first thing you should do is to join the log4net-dev mailing list. I think we need help in virtually any area - fixing bug, discussing changes, documentation, testing ... you name it. In general you pick what you want to work on, nobody is going to assign work to anybody else. We are all doing this in our spare time and it is supposed to be fun :-) You may want to take a look at the JIRA issues to see whether you find anything you'd like to work on. You know better than anybody else where you can use your talent best - and what would be interesting to you. Cheers Stefan On 2016-09-13, Shivinder Singh wrote: > Hello, > I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If there is > anything I can do let me know. > Thanks, > Shivinder Singh >> 1-409-330-3608 > shivindersi...@hotmail.com >> From: bode...@apache.org >> To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org >> Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help >> CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org; gene...@logging.apache.org; >> d...@lucenenet.apache.org >> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200 >> This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their >> logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are >> using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get >> involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! >> We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at >> the Apache Software Foundation. >> In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more >> than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three >> people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source >> projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the >> amount of time they could invest have changed. >> At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people >> semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote >> as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be >> required. >> Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new >> features is not going to happen. >> This has repeatedly made log4net lag behind recent developments in the >> .NET world. It took a long time to get a version out that properly >> worked with .NET 4.0 in 2011 and adaptions to .NET 4.5 also took much >> longer than many users would have wished. We are seeing it again with >> .NET Core right now. In addition there are many unresolved issues in >> log4net's JIRA. >> Despite this there are more than 2500 downloads of the logging >> framework every day from nuget. We are asking you, the log4net >> community, to get your hands dirty. >> Right now we are in the process of creating a log4net release that >> works for .NET Core. It is a very targeted effort and it is very >> unlikely Dominik and Stefan will be able to contribute more in the >> future than we did during the past months. >> If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and >> raise your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things >> you'd like to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, >> Dominik and Stefan will be there to help. >> If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss >> it and get it out of the way. Nothing is carved into stone, neither >> what the future of log4net holds nor how we make it happen. >> Links >> log4net's JIRA:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET Log4net - ASF JIRA - issues.apache.org<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET> issues.apache.org The Apache log4net library is a tool to help the programmer output log statements to a variety of output targets. log4net is a port of the excellent Apache log4j ... >> dev mailing list: https://logging.apache.org/log4net/mail-lists.html >> How the ASF works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html >>https://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
Welcome! even though the official build system currently is NAnt, development with your setup is supposed to work (if it doesn't, it is a bug). The first thing you should do is to join the log4net-dev mailing list. I think we need help in virtually any area - fixing bug, discussing changes, documentation, testing ... you name it. In general you pick what you want to work on, nobody is going to assign work to anybody else. We are all doing this in our spare time and it is supposed to be fun :-) You may want to take a look at the JIRA issues to see whether you find anything you'd like to work on. You know better than anybody else where you can use your talent best - and what would be interesting to you. Cheers Stefan On 2016-09-13, Shivinder Singh wrote: > Hello, > I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If there is > anything I can do let me know. > Thanks, > Shivinder Singh >> 1-409-330-3608 > shivindersi...@hotmail.com >> From: bode...@apache.org >> To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org >> Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help >> CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org; gene...@logging.apache.org; >> d...@lucenenet.apache.org >> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200 >> This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their >> logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are >> using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get >> involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! >> We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at >> the Apache Software Foundation. >> In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more >> than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three >> people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source >> projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the >> amount of time they could invest have changed. >> At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people >> semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote >> as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be >> required. >> Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new >> features is not going to happen. >> This has repeatedly made log4net lag behind recent developments in the >> .NET world. It took a long time to get a version out that properly >> worked with .NET 4.0 in 2011 and adaptions to .NET 4.5 also took much >> longer than many users would have wished. We are seeing it again with >> .NET Core right now. In addition there are many unresolved issues in >> log4net's JIRA. >> Despite this there are more than 2500 downloads of the logging >> framework every day from nuget. We are asking you, the log4net >> community, to get your hands dirty. >> Right now we are in the process of creating a log4net release that >> works for .NET Core. It is a very targeted effort and it is very >> unlikely Dominik and Stefan will be able to contribute more in the >> future than we did during the past months. >> If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and >> raise your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things >> you'd like to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, >> Dominik and Stefan will be there to help. >> If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss >> it and get it out of the way. Nothing is carved into stone, neither >> what the future of log4net holds nor how we make it happen. >> Links >> log4net's JIRA:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET >> dev mailing list: https://logging.apache.org/log4net/mail-lists.html >> How the ASF works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html >>https://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html
RE: Apache log4net Needs Help
Hello, I use log4net too, but in Windows/IIS/Visual Studio environment. If there is anything I can do let me know. Thanks, Shivinder Singh +1-409-330-3608 shivindersi...@hotmail.com > From: bode...@apache.org > To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org > Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help > CC: log4net-user@logging.apache.org; gene...@logging.apache.org; > d...@lucenenet.apache.org > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 06:12:19 +0200 > > This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their > logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are > using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get > involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! > We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at > the Apache Software Foundation. > > In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more > than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three > people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source > projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the > amount of time they could invest have changed. > > At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people > semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote > as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be > required. > > Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new > features is not going to happen. > > This has repeatedly made log4net lag behind recent developments in the > .NET world. It took a long time to get a version out that properly > worked with .NET 4.0 in 2011 and adaptions to .NET 4.5 also took much > longer than many users would have wished. We are seeing it again with > .NET Core right now. In addition there are many unresolved issues in > log4net's JIRA. > > Despite this there are more than 2500 downloads of the logging > framework every day from nuget. We are asking you, the log4net > community, to get your hands dirty. > > Right now we are in the process of creating a log4net release that > works for .NET Core. It is a very targeted effort and it is very > unlikely Dominik and Stefan will be able to contribute more in the > future than we did during the past months. > > If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and > raise your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things > you'd like to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, > Dominik and Stefan will be there to help. > > If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss > it and get it out of the way. Nothing is carved into stone, neither > what the future of log4net holds nor how we make it happen. > > Links > > log4net's JIRA:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET > dev mailing list: https://logging.apache.org/log4net/mail-lists.html > How the ASF works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html >https://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html >
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-09-08 10:20, Stefan Bodewig wrote: On 2016-09-08, Dominik Psenner wrote: That process is a little bit clumsy and therefore we should all agree on one build solution. +1 We've already reached the point in trunk where a single build system doesn't work anymore. Right now it is NAnt + .NET Core's CLI. We should collect our requirements and see what fits our bill - and likely move this discussion to the dev list ;-) +1
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-09-08, Dominik Psenner wrote: > That process is a little bit clumsy and therefore we should all agree > on one build solution. +1 We've already reached the point in trunk where a single build system doesn't work anymore. Right now it is NAnt + .NET Core's CLI. We should collect our requirements and see what fits our bill - and likely move this discussion to the dev list ;-) Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
On 2016-09-08 06:05, Stefan Bodewig wrote: Hi Justin On 2016-09-08, Justin Taylor wrote: I pulled down the source. It builds fine but the unit tests fail (log4net.vs2012.sln). Is there some setup/prerequisites I've overlooked? Currently the official build system is the Nant build. I personally don't use VS so am perfectly able to break the solution without noticin it - but I think Dominik uses this solution file. In general the solutions are supposed to work, though. I usually do not build mono stuff with msbuild (i.e. visual studio projects) because I do not even have projects that run on mono. Thus the workflow for me is to hack on visual studio and as a last step I fire up nant to build and run the tests. Therefore it can be that the project does not build with visual studio. That process is a little bit clumsy and therefore we should all agree on one build solution. From what I know about, msbuild can be customized to do about anything we want from it and as such it can also build mono assemblies. But we may as well drop the visual studio solutions and make nant/monodevelop our favorite hacking environment. We just have to find an agreement. It looks as if you were using xbuild on Mono, this is something I have considered myself before (as NAnt doesn't support recent versions of Mono anymore). In this case the solution doesn't hold the mono specific defines MONO,MONO_2_0,MONO_4_0 - I'm not sure how to solve that in an environment specific way. It's showing: Passed 121 Failed 4Errors 31 Running log4net.vs2012.log4net.Tests.vs2012.log4net.Tests.Appender.AdoNetAppenderTest.BufferingWebsiteExample ... log4net:ERROR XmlHierarchyConfigurator: Failed to construct object of type [log4net.Layout.PatternLayout] Exception: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at log4net.Util.PatternStringConverters.NewLinePatternConverter.ActivateOptions () <0x41403630 + 0x00014> in :0 This should have been fixed by svn revision 1759541 - which is https://github.com/apache/log4net/commit/32b7a3ebc4c1123ea3bf55bb257b81e5d71ad130 Cheers Stefan
Re: Apache log4net Needs Help
Hi Justin On 2016-09-08, Justin Taylor wrote: > I pulled down the source. It builds fine but the unit tests fail > (log4net.vs2012.sln). Is there some setup/prerequisites I've > overlooked? Currently the official build system is the Nant build. I personally don't use VS so am perfectly able to break the solution without noticin it - but I think Dominik uses this solution file. In general the solutions are supposed to work, though. It looks as if you were using xbuild on Mono, this is something I have considered myself before (as NAnt doesn't support recent versions of Mono anymore). In this case the solution doesn't hold the mono specific defines MONO,MONO_2_0,MONO_4_0 - I'm not sure how to solve that in an environment specific way. > It's showing: > Passed 121Failed 4Errors 31 > Running > log4net.vs2012.log4net.Tests.vs2012.log4net.Tests.Appender.AdoNetAppenderTest.BufferingWebsiteExample > ... > log4net:ERROR XmlHierarchyConfigurator: Failed to construct object of type > [log4net.Layout.PatternLayout] Exception: > System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the > target of an invocation. ---> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference > not set to an instance of an object > at > log4net.Util.PatternStringConverters.NewLinePatternConverter.ActivateOptions > () <0x41403630 + 0x00014> in :0 This should have been fixed by svn revision 1759541 - which is https://github.com/apache/log4net/commit/32b7a3ebc4c1123ea3bf55bb257b81e5d71ad130 Cheers Stefan
RE: Apache log4net Needs Help
I pulled down the source. It builds fine but the unit tests fail (log4net.vs2012.sln). Is there some setup/prerequisites I've overlooked? It's showing: Passed 121 Failed 4Errors 31 Running log4net.vs2012.log4net.Tests.vs2012.log4net.Tests.Appender.AdoNetAppenderTest.BufferingWebsiteExample ... log4net:ERROR XmlHierarchyConfigurator: Failed to construct object of type [log4net.Layout.PatternLayout] Exception: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at log4net.Util.PatternStringConverters.NewLinePatternConverter.ActivateOptions () <0x41403630 + 0x00014> in :0 at log4net.Util.PatternParser.ProcessConverter (System.String converterName, System.String option, log4net.Util.FormattingInfo formattingInfo) <0x413b9760 + 0x0065e> in :0 at log4net.Util.PatternParser.ParseInternal (System.String pattern, System.String[] matches) <0x413b8ca0 + 0x004e3> in :0 at log4net.Util.PatternParser.Parse () <0x413b8690 + 0x0001f> in :0 at log4net.Layout.PatternLayout.ActivateOptions () <0x413b7ab0 + 0x0003b> in :0 at log4net.Layout.PatternLayout..ctor (System.String pattern) <0x413b6f40 + 0x00125> in :0 at log4net.Layout.PatternLayout..ctor () <0x4143d560 + 0x00017> in :0 at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Reflection.MonoCMethod:InternalInvoke (System.Reflection.MonoCMethod,object,object[],System.Exception&) at System.Reflection.MonoCMethod.InternalInvoke (System.Object obj, System.Object[] parameters) [0x2] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MonoMethod.cs:644 --- End of inner exception stack trace --- at System.Reflection.MonoCMethod.InternalInvoke (System.Object obj, System.Object[] parameters) [0x00013] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MonoMethod.cs:650 at System.RuntimeType.CreateInstanceMono (Boolean nonPublic) [0x000ca] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/mcs/class/corlib/ReferenceSources/RuntimeType.cs:115 at System.RuntimeType.CreateInstanceSlow (Boolean publicOnly, Boolean skipCheckThis, Boolean fillCache, System.Threading.StackCrawlMark& stackMark) [0x0001a] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/mcs/class/corlib/ReferenceSources/RuntimeType.cs:89 at System.RuntimeType.CreateInstanceDefaultCtor (Boolean publicOnly, Boolean skipCheckThis, Boolean fillCache, System.Threading.StackCrawlMark& stackMark) [0x0002a] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/external/referencesource/mscorlib/system/rttype.cs:5599 at System.Activator.CreateInstance (System.Type type, Boolean nonPublic) [0x00040] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/external/referencesource/mscorlib/system/activator.cs:201 at System.Activator.CreateInstance (System.Type type) [0x0] in /builddir/build/BUILD/mono-4.4.2/external/referencesource/mscorlib/system/activator.cs:134 at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.CreateObjectFromXml (System.Xml.XmlElement element, System.Type defaultTargetType, System.Type typeConstraint) <0x4143c4a0 + 0x003d2> in :0 log4net:ERROR Could not create Appender [AdoNetAppender] of type [log4net.Appender.AdoNetAppender]. Reported error follows. System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.SetParameter (System.Xml.XmlElement element, System.Object target) <0x41437540 + 0x00180> in :0 at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.CreateObjectFromXml (System.Xml.XmlElement element, System.Type defaultTargetType, System.Type typeConstraint) <0x4143c4a0 + 0x00573> in :0 at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.SetParameter (System.Xml.XmlElement element, System.Object target) <0x41437540 + 0x01bbf> in :0 at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.CreateObjectFromXml (System.Xml.XmlElement element, System.Type defaultTargetType, System.Type typeConstraint) <0x4143c4a0 + 0x00573> in :0 at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.SetParameter (System.Xml.XmlElement element, System.Object target) <0x41437540 + 0x01bbf> in :0 at log4net.Repository.Hierarchy.XmlHierarchyConfigurator.ParseAppender (System.Xml.XmlElement appenderElement) <0x41436850 + 0x007ef> in :0 log4net:ERROR Appender named [AdoNetAppender] not found. Running log4net.vs2012.log4net.Tests.vs2012.log4net.Tests.Appender.AdoNetAppenderTest.WebsiteExample ... log4net:ERROR XmlHierarchyConfigurator: Failed to construct object of type [log4net.Layout.PatternLayout] Exception: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at log4net.Util.PatternStringConverters.NewLinePatternConverter.ActivateOptions ()
RE: Apache log4net Needs Help
Hey Stefan, I've got my hands full at the moment, but I'll try to step up and contribute to log4net on a best effort basis. Surely don't want to let log4net fade out. Regards, Gert -Original Message- From: Stefan Bodewig [mailto:bode...@apache.org] Sent: dinsdag 6 september 2016 06:12 To: log4net-...@logging.apache.org Cc: log4net-user@logging.apache.org; gene...@logging.apache.org; d...@lucenenet.apache.org Subject: Apache log4net Needs Help This is a general call-to-arms for everyone who uses log4net as their logging solution. If log4net is the logging framework that you are using and would like to keep using in the future it is time now to get involved. The project needs a larger developing community to move on! We really need more people who want to shape the future of log4net at the Apache Software Foundation. In all the time since log4net has been started by Nicko Cadell more than ten years ago, there have never been more than two or three people regularly contributing to it. As is normal in open source projects people have come and gone when their interests or just the amount of time they could invest have changed. At the moment Dominik Psenner and Stefan Bodewig are the only people semi-actively working on log4net and neither of them is able to devote as much time to the project as they'd like to and as would be required. Realistically log4net is maintenance mode where development of new features is not going to happen. This has repeatedly made log4net lag behind recent developments in the .NET world. It took a long time to get a version out that properly worked with .NET 4.0 in 2011 and adaptions to .NET 4.5 also took much longer than many users would have wished. We are seeing it again with .NET Core right now. In addition there are many unresolved issues in log4net's JIRA. Despite this there are more than 2500 downloads of the logging framework every day from nuget. We are asking you, the log4net community, to get your hands dirty. Right now we are in the process of creating a log4net release that works for .NET Core. It is a very targeted effort and it is very unlikely Dominik and Stefan will be able to contribute more in the future than we did during the past months. If you are willing to help, please join log4net's dev mailing list and raise your hand. Look through log4net's issue tracker and pick things you'd like to work on. If you don't know where to start, please ask, Dominik and Stefan will be there to help. If there is anything holding you back from contributing, let's discuss it and get it out of the way. Nothing is carved into stone, neither what the future of log4net holds nor how we make it happen. Links log4net's JIRA:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4NET dev mailing list: https://logging.apache.org/log4net/mail-lists.html How the ASF works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html https://www.apache.org/dev/contributors.html
