RE: Stupid Email

[Matthews Simon]

>  -Original Message-
>  There was a moral in this story but I forgot it in the process of
>  rambling on.  Probably something about munging Reply-To, or putting
>  all middle management up against a wall and shooting them (which ICL
>  did a short while later).

Not all of them some of us survived and indeed went on to understand the
error of our ways and start using perl :-)

SAM

Re: odd -w effect

[Benjamin Holzman]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 07:15:26PM -0500, Benjamin Holzman wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:07:38PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > Linux UI question (on Debian/KDE laptop right now): If I copy
 ^^^
>   $ sudo apt-get install wmnetselect
>   $ wmnetselect &
  ^^

Oops, sorry.  I forgot that not everybody uses WindowMaker.  I doubt wmnetselect
will work very well under KDE, although I suppose it's worth a try.

-- 
Benjamin HolzmanECNvantage Corp.
Chief Technical Officer 295 Park Avenue S., Suite 7C
(212) 358-0436 : [EMAIL PROTECTED] New York, NY, 10010
$ perl -le 'print join $" ,reverse map ucfirst ,qw{ hacker perl another just}'

Re: odd -w effect

[Benjamin Holzman]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:07:38PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> Linux UI question (on Debian/KDE laptop right now): If I copy
> a URL in a mail message by highlighting it, what's the fastest
> way of getting that loaded in a browser? Right now I have
> to delete the URL in a browser window and then paste. Being
> able to click it and then hit ^V is *much* nicer (in Windows)
> than this manual delete time wastage.

$ sudo apt-get install wmnetselect
$ wmnetselect &

Ben

-- 
Benjamin HolzmanECNvantage Corp.
Chief Technical Officer 295 Park Avenue S., Suite 7C
(212) 358-0436 : [EMAIL PROTECTED] New York, NY, 10010
$ perl -le 'print join $" ,reverse map ucfirst ,qw{ hacker perl another just}'

Re: odd -w effect

[Mark Fowler]

> My solution is truly disgusting, but works.  I've patched bash so that I
> can paste (middle click) a http URL onto the command line and it will
> start in netscape.  As I always have at least one terminal open on my
> desktop that does the job perfectly.

Whenever I'm doing this I tend to 

 1) Highlight the text
 2) Click the middle mouse button at the start of the dialog I want to
paste to
 3) Hit Ctrl-K (deleting all the old text to the right of the cursor)
 4) Press return.

This tends to work no matter what you are using - there are better ways
depending on what browser you use, etc, but this tends to work
universally.  YMMV.

Later.

Mark.

P.S. Try putting the mini-commander applet in gnome in it's own toolbar,
put it bottom right, remove the tabs and set it to slide out - voila - a
prompt that materialises whenever I put my cursor in the bottom right of my
screen - and one that can accept pasted urls.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Re: JOB: desperately seeking symbian

[Greg McCarroll]

* jo walsh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> a friend asked me to pass this on, it seems interesting.
> (symbian looking for 1 junior 1 senior perm perl bods)
> in a parallel world where i have cft, this has gone in the jobs
> database. um.
> 

you dont want this job, you'd have to sit near me ;-)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

JOB: desperately seeking symbian

[jo walsh]

a friend asked me to pass this on, it seems interesting.
(symbian looking for 1 junior 1 senior perm perl bods)
in a parallel world where i have cft, this has gone in the jobs
database. um.

--

The contact details are:

Dave Jobling
Manager, Tools and Processes Team
System Documentation
Symbian
Switchboard: +44 (0)20 7563 2000
Desk:   +44 (0)20 7563 2842
Mobile:+44 07747 065564
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Job title: 2x Build and Tools Software Engineer, reporting to me as team
leader within the SysDoc group.  (1 junior, 1 senior; both permanent.)

Location: Central London (nearest tube station: Edgeware Road).

Broad content of the role:

The System Documentation Group is responsible for producing and maintaining
documentation targetted at developers working with the Symbian software
platform. The resulting Developer Library documentation is released as part
of the Software Development Kits (SDKs) that are used by Symbian licensees,
partners, third party developers and in-house software engineers.

Within the System Documentation Group, the Tools and Processes Team is
responsible for the development and maintenance of a tool chain to support
the documentation production process. The technology areas supported by the
team include XML and HTML, source control and configuration management,
builds, testing, system and product integration and product release. Tools
are typically engineered using Perl.

Key tasks:

* support, maintain and extend document building tool chain and processes

* evolve the design and structure of the documentation component of Symbian
SDKs

* identify process improvements

* create and maintain process documentation

Essential qualifications:

* experience of Perl development in a commercial environment (scaled
according to role sought)

* problem-solver, team player, adaptable and flexible, suited to working
under pressure, attention to detail, good communicator

Desired qualifications:

* for the senior role, education to software engineering (or similar)
degree; for the junior role, degree in an IT-related subject

* knowledge of XML/HTML

* knowledge of (not necessarily direct involvement in) C++ development in a
commercial environment

* knowledge of software development methodologies, software integration and
testing


 

  

Re: Dumb-assed question

[Robin Houston]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:42:58PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> 
> Exercise: Implement the "except the last" in a regex :-)
> Extra points for squeezing it into a single regex rather than
> a while / $' solution


s/\.(?=.*\.)/_/g;

 .robin.

-- 
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?

Re: Dumb-assed question

[Paul Makepeace]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 06:17:45PM +, Robin Houston wrote:
> I suppose you were hoping for a simpler procedure, but this is
> the simplest I've found. Possibly IE doesn't have that problem.

It has others, it'll s/\./_/g for all except the last.

Exercise: Implement the "except the last" in a regex :-)
Extra points for squeezing it into a single regex rather than
a while / $' solution

Paul

Re: odd -w effect

[Niklas Nordebo]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:07:38PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> Linux UI question (on Debian/KDE laptop right now): If I copy
> a URL in a mail message by highlighting it, what's the fastest
> way of getting that loaded in a browser?

Just place the pointer over the current web page and click the middle button, and 
Netscape will open that URL. This doesn't work for a new Netscape window that hasn't 
got a page open yet for some reason.

-- 
Niklas Nordebo -><- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 618, further transmissions
  to you by the sender may be stopped at NO COST to you by forwarding this
  e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=remove
 

Re: odd -w effect

[David Cantrell]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:07:38PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:

> Linux UI question (on Debian/KDE laptop right now): If I copy
> a URL in a mail message by highlighting it, what's the fastest
> way of getting that loaded in a browser? Right now I have
> to delete the URL in a browser window and then paste. Being
> able to click it and then hit ^V is *much* nicer (in Windows)
> than this manual delete time wastage.

My solution is truly disgusting, but works.  I've patched bash so that I
can paste (middle click) a http URL onto the command line and it will
start in netscape.  As I always have at least one terminal open on my
desktop that does the job perfectly.

Let me know if you want the patch.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  This is nice.  Any idea what body-part it is?

Re: odd -w effect

[Struan Donald]

* at 24/01 12:07 -0600 Paul Makepeace said:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:47:59PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> > Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
> > is the prefered development environment.
> 
> Aye aye. Windows UI is much nicer than linux's (right now) and
> linux doesn't have a decent browser which is a serious handicap.

mozilla's pretty good. 9ok it does fall over a bit and is a bit of a
memory hog but i think you can point those fingers at ie too.
 
> 

> 
> 
> Linux UI question (on Debian/KDE laptop right now): If I copy
> a URL in a mail message by highlighting it, what's the fastest
> way of getting that loaded in a browser? Right now I have
> to delete the URL in a browser window and then paste. Being
> able to click it and then hit ^V is *much* nicer (in Windows)
> than this manual delete time wastage.

does ALT+L not open the open location dialog into which you can just
paste the url? but yeah, it is a bit broken that.

(or CTRL B and then select the relevant url :)

struan

Re: Dumb-assed question

[Robin Houston]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 06:02:25PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>   Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) nicely escapes the spaces to
>   %20 but when I try and download these, the %20 appears in the
>   Netscape file save as box instead of spaces.
> 
>   Does anyone know how or if I can get the browsers to save the
>   files with spaces ?

The only way I've found is simple but tedious:

 1.  Choose "Save As..." or shift-click on a link or whatever
 2.  If the filename doesn't contain %20 then click OK and you're done
 3.  Use your mouse to highlight the first %20 in the filename
 4.  Press the space bar once
 5.  GOTO 2


I suppose you were hoping for a simpler procedure, but this is
the simplest I've found. Possibly IE doesn't have that problem.

 .robin.

Re: odd -w effect

[Paul Makepeace]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:09:41PM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
> Here here. I have yet to find a Unix editor I like. SO I use Ultraedit
> under Wine c.f http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/stuff/uedit.jpg

Allaire's HomeSite is excellent as a perl editor too; regexes, syntax
colouring, open file tabs (like UE's) and the most bestest HTML
reference ever.

Paul

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:07:38PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:47:59PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> > Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
> > is the prefered development environment.
> Aye aye. Windows UI is much nicer than linux's (right now) and
> linux doesn't have a decent browser which is a serious handicap.

My mileage varies.

Although you're right about the browser.

Michael

Re: odd -w effect

[Paul Makepeace]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:47:59PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
> is the prefered development environment.

Aye aye. Windows UI is much nicer than linux's (right now) and
linux doesn't have a decent browser which is a serious handicap.


I use a Mac Cube at home although still think Window's UI is
better -- I'm trying to figure out what everyone thinks is so
great about the Mac UI (alt-tab is braindead, no minimize all,
can't use keyboard shortcuts for any menu item, no easy way
to find open folders in Finder, etc). Its pastel shades are
great though, I'll give it that.


Linux UI question (on Debian/KDE laptop right now): If I copy
a URL in a mail message by highlighting it, what's the fastest
way of getting that loaded in a browser? Right now I have
to delete the URL in a browser window and then paste. Being
able to click it and then hit ^V is *much* nicer (in Windows)
than this manual delete time wastage.

Paul  

Dumb-assed question

[Simon_Wilcox]

OK I'm sure I should know this but I don't !

  I have lusers who want to publish M$ Word templates on my site. That's
  fine, once I'd sorted out mime types but these file names have spaces in
  them.

  Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) nicely escapes the spaces to %20 but when
  I try and download these, the %20 appears in the Netscape file save as box
  instead of spaces.

  Does anyone know how or if I can get the browsers to save the files with
  spaces ?

  Thanks,

  Simon.



__


   This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed
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   responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the
   consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such
   information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written
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   Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification,
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   prohibited.

Re: word processors

[Robin Houston]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 05:11:25PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
> 
> Much as I love Computer Modern for technical work, using it for fiction
> would just be WRONG WRONG WRONG.

In a good way :-)

 .robin.

Re: word processors

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 05:03:14PM +, Robin Houston wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 04:35:17PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> > I wonder if anyone has written a novel in Latex?
> That sounds like a challenge to me :-)
> You have to set it in Computer Modern as well though.

Much as I love Computer Modern for technical work, using it for fiction
would just be WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Michael

Re: word processors

[Robin Houston]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 04:35:17PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> 
> I wonder if anyone has written a novel in Latex?

That sounds like a challenge to me :-)
You have to set it in Computer Modern as well though.

 .robin.

Re: word processors

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 04:35:17PM -, Jonathan Peterson typed:

>We are assuming technical type book here then? I wonder if anyone has
>written a novel in Latex?

Closest I've seen is role-playing materials written in LyX - but
they're pretty technical in organisation.

Roger

Re: Web site

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:41:01 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> >At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:28 +, Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  Dave
> >>
> >>  I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website 
> >>  still lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update 
> >>  perhaps?
> >
> >Which page did you have in mind? It all looks up to date to me.
> 
> I've been looking at london.pm.org which is still showing the tech 
> meeting on the 18th on the front page.
>
> Is that the right url ?

Yep. That's right. Everything else is not to be trusted.

Dave...

Re: Web site

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:20:36 +, Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:28 +, Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  Dave
> >>
> >>  I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website 
> >>  still lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update 
> >>  perhaps?
> >
> > Which page did you have in mind? It all looks up to date to me.
> 
> The front page on Penderel (currently down I beleive) has a little 
> calendar, list PO as the venue.
> 
> Or was I getting cached pages?

Ah. OK. You shouldn't trust anything on penderel as that was just a 
snapshot copy of the main site  that I did as
an experiment a while ago. The _real_ site had some major updates
recently.

Perhaps we could get something set up that mirrors london.pm.org to
penderel? Jo? Alex?

Dave...

Re: Web site

[Simon_Wilcox]

>At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:28 +, Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  Dave
>>
>>  I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still
>>  lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps?
>
>Which page did you have in mind? It all looks up to date to me.
>
>Dave..




I've been looking at london.pm.org which is still showing the tech meeting on
the 18th on the front page.


Is that the right url ?


Simon.












__


   This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed
   and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent
   written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, our company disclaim all
   responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the
   consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such
   information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written
   confirmation.

   If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us
   immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from
   your computer.

   Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification,
   distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly
   prohibited.

word processors

[Jonathan Peterson]

> >
> > so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?
>
> Oh, I'd probably do something based using the Template Toolkit :)
>
> But seriously, probably DocBook, or Latex.

We are assuming technical type book here then? I wonder if anyone has
written a novel in Latex?

The single thing I look for most when writing is the ability to see the
maximum amount of text without having to scroll. Handwriting wins for this.
Indeed some people have gone so far as to suggest that modern novels have a
perceptible stylistic bent caused by the use of word processors, which lead
to overfast writing, and tendency not to review your work often enough
(because reading via a computer screen is such a pain).

I generally find myself writing outlines on paper or in textpad and then
finishing in MSWord, since that's how everyone wants the final product.

Re: Web site

[Neil Ford]

>At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:28 +, Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  Dave
>>
>>  I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still
>>  lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps?
>
>Which page did you have in mind? It all looks up to date to me.
>
>Dave..

The front page on Penderel (currently down I beleive) has a little 
calendar, list PO as the venue.

Or was I getting cached pages?

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org

Re: Web site

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:28 +, Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave
> 
> I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still 
> lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps?

Which page did you have in mind? It all looks up to date to me.

Dave..

RE: odd -w effect

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:23:57 -, "Bates, Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the easiest
> way to produce it.<<
> 
> so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?

Oh, I'd probably do something based using the Template Toolkit :)

But seriously, probably DocBook, or Latex.

Dave...

Re: odd -w effect

[DJ Adams]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:47:59PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> >
> 
> Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
> is the prefered development environment.

I'm with you on that one. That's what I'm doing right now, and with PuTTY
being such a great tiny-footprint client, the combo is lowest-common-
denominator and extremely portable. I don't get involved with the e.g.
Gnome vs KDE or whatever - because I don't have a 'desktop' as such. 

luvverly.

dj '80x25' adams

Re: odd -w effect

[DJ Adams]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:23:57PM -, Bates, Duncan wrote:
> >>I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the easiest
> way to produce it.<<
> 
> so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?

docbook?

markup / WYSINWYG rules
dj

Re: Web site

[David Cantrell]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 03:36:28PM +, Neil Ford wrote:

> I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still 
> lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps?

http://dave.told.us.to is correct though :-)

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  This is nice.  Any idea what body-part it is?

Web site

[Neil Ford]

Dave

I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still 
lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps?

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org

Re: odd -w effect

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:

> From: "Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > > *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.
> >
> > Yeah, BeOS. BeOS is the future. Which is to say BeOS _was_ the future. Oh
> > well.
> >
> > Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
> > is the prefered development environment.
> 
> Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for doing X
> stuff.
> 

I am using X-WIn32 right now.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |

Re: odd -w effect

[Dean S Wilson]

Original Message-
From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


>> Must remember to try IE under WINE.
>
>Don't bother.  It doesn't work.


I've seen IE5 running under wine on Debian. The machine did have a 98
partition though so he might have been using the libraries from there,
is that cheating? :)

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon

Re: odd -w effect

[Dean S Wilson]

-Original Message-
From: Robert Shiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine
running
>samba
>> is the prefered development environment.
>
>Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for
doing X
>stuff.


If you've got a nice meaty box at home then run Linux with NT in
vmware, you get a very nice system that way. You have a two machine
subnet for clean network testing that can be firewalled off at the
Linux host os, you can use procmail to check for vbs viri and then use
outlook and IE for web browsing. Its how I used to do 95% of my work.
Well until my motherboard started frying harddrives...

Dean

PS Running Linux in VMWare on NT works fine as well but its sick :)

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon

RE: odd -w effect

[Bates, Duncan]

>>I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the easiest
way to produce it.<<

so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?


-- 
Duncan Bates
Developer
Proxicom UK
Tel: 020 7321 3812
Mobile: 07884 336 532
http://www.proxicom.com/

Re: odd -w effect

[David Cantrell]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:18:17PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:

> Must remember to try IE under WINE.

Don't bother.  It doesn't work.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  This is nice.  Any idea what body-part it is?

Re: odd -w effect

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:18:17 +, Roger Burton West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I just find Windows too bloody frustrating whenever I want to do 
> anything other than edit "documents".

I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the 
easiest way to produce it.

This was a mistake. I will never do it again.

Dave...

Re: odd -w effect

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:15:34PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

>What box I want depends on the local environment - windows boxes can
>be easier to run on windows networks, and linux boxes on more unixy or
>open networks.

I just find Windows too bloody frustrating whenever I want to do anything
other than edit "documents".

Must remember to try IE under WINE.

R

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:05:27PM -, Robert Shiels wrote:
> From: "Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > > *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.
> >
> Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for doing X
> stuff.

The one windows application I can't live without is IE.

linux box, with a solaris machine for supplying much needed web browsing.

I've not tried this yet, though.

What box I want depends on the local environment - windows boxes can
be easier to run on windows networks, and linux boxes on more unixy or
open networks.

Michael

Re: odd -w effect

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.
>
> Yeah, BeOS. BeOS is the future. Which is to say BeOS _was_ the future. Oh
> well.
>
> Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running
samba
> is the prefered development environment.

Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for doing X
stuff.

/Robert

RE: odd -w effect

[Jonathan Peterson]

>
> *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.

Yeah, BeOS. BeOS is the future. Which is to say BeOS _was_ the future. Oh
well.

Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
is the prefered development environment.

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:31:02PM +, Richard Clamp wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:50PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
> > Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
> > with unix line ending conventions...
> Having recently done this, the thing you want is
> set-buffer-file-coding-system, the default keybinding being 'C-x RET f'.  I
> can highly recommend undecided-unix.

Cool, that seems to work.

Now experimenting with

(set-default-coding-systems 'undecided-unix)

Michael

Re: odd -w effect

[James Powell]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:39:13PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:36:40PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> > On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:31:28PM +, Michael Stevens typed:
> > >I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
> > >you see outside offices.
> > D&D is vaguely useful sometimes. Just not when I'm editing text.
> 
> I hate to say it, but I'm slowly becoming converted to windows cut & paste.
> 
> I like being able to highlight a block of text and hit ctrl-v to replace
> that with the contents of the clipboard.
> 

Presume you have Pending-delete-mode in Xemacs set up then

I also have this in my .emacs (ctrl changed to alt, just to confuse
me when moving platforms but not to confuse emacs or X).

;; windows emu
(require 'pc-select)
(pc-select-mode t)
(global-set-key [(alt c)] copy-primary-selection)
(global-set-key [(alt v)] yank)
(global-set-key [(alt x)] copy-region-as-kill)
(global-set-key [(alt left)] backward-word)
(global-set-key [(alt right)] forward-word)
(global-set-key [(alt up)] backward-paragraph)
(global-set-key [(alt down)] forward-paragraph)

Re: odd -w effect

[Richard Clamp]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:50PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
> 
> Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
> with unix line ending conventions...

Having recently done this, the thing you want is
set-buffer-file-coding-system, the default keybinding being 'C-x RET f'.  I
can highly recommend undecided-unix.

-- 
Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: odd -w effect

[Simon Wistow]

Michael Stevens wrote:

> I hate to say it, but I'm slowly becoming converted to windows cut & paste.
> 
> I like being able to highlight a block of text and hit ctrl-v to replace
> that with the contents of the clipboard.


Why do you hate to say it? It's better than cut and paste of X. 

Linux isn't the be all and end all. It's not even the best Unix clone
out there in my opinion - it just has the most support. But if that's
the measure of how good it is then Windows is better. Inux just happens
to be better at doing most stuff that we need to do. But it doesn't mean
that it's the best OS. In fact when you think about it it's a bit shit
and is based on 30 year old technology which wasn't even the best OS
back then (c.f http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html) but then at
least it's not nearly as bad as X is.

*nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.



Simon
[grumpy today]

Re: odd -w effect

[Simon Wistow]

Mark Fowler wrote:

> UltraEdit32 is a really good windows editor[1] if you like the way of
> Windows.  It does all the right things (in the way that perl does all the
> right things) with line endings.  And a lot more (but in a good way, not
> in a bloat way)

Here here. I have yet to find a Unix editor I like. SO I use Ultraedit
under Wine c.f http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/stuff/uedit.jpg

Re: odd -w effect

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Michael Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 24 January 2001 12:43
Subject: Re: odd -w effect


>
> OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
> used more in the workplace. I dunno.
>
Well, it does actually, in a roundabout way. People who run it at home, will
want to play with it at work too. They'll see an old Pentium box in the
corner of the office not being used, and stick Linux on it. They will hook
it up to the network and 

/Robert

Re: Stupid Email

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Andy Wardley wrote:
> 
> Meanwhile, the usual bunch of know-nothing, self-important idiots with
> nothing better to do (i.e. failed middle management moved sideways to
> another middle managment position) starting sending replies to everyone
> demanding that they stop being sent duplicate copies of all these different
> emails.  cc'd to 'icl', of course, because the default (using OfficePower,
> a truly jank ICL middleware system) was to simply copy the To: and CC: list
> from the original message.
> 

OfficePower <*sigh*> I wrote an X.400 -> SMTP gateway for that once - in
Perl (4) of Course.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |

Re: odd -w effect

[Mark Fowler]

As I seemed to be destined to be ignored, I'll do what I should have done
and shoult a little louder:

UltraEdit32 is a really good windows editor[1] if you like the way of
Windows.  It does all the right things (in the way that perl does all the
right things) with line endings.  And a lot more (but in a good way, not
in a bloat way)

If you're on Windows and you want to be on Linux then get emacs or
whatever, which do work, but don't bitch about the people using
their metophor of choice not using emacs.  Just bitch at them for 
using a shit program (e.g. notepad) and give them a really nice
windows style program (e.g. ultraedit). TMTOWTDI.

Later.

Mark.

[1] It's shareware.  It's actually the last commerical software (excluding
games) I bought.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:46:13PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:43:46PM +, Michael Stevens typed:
> 
> >We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
> >IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
> >try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
> >"aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
> >you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
> >and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.
> >OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
> >used more in the workplace. I dunno.
> I think it's just like proactive evangelism vs "living a good life" -
> when your box hasn't crashed six times today, and it's running a clone
> of a production web site faster than the live box, and it's doing all
> the monitoring for the company, and... people start to say "ooh, how can
> I get some of that". This is a reaction that hitting them over the head
> with Debian CDs rarely engenders (though it's fun anyway).

I was actually thinking religion here as the analogy...

Anyway, we seem to be in furious agreement.

Michael

Re: odd -w effect

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:43:46PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

>We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
>IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
>try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
>"aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
>you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
>and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.
>
>OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
>used more in the workplace. I dunno.

I think it's just like proactive evangelism vs "living a good life" -
when your box hasn't crashed six times today, and it's running a clone
of a production web site faster than the live box, and it's doing all
the monitoring for the company, and... people start to say "ooh, how can
I get some of that". This is a reaction that hitting them over the head
with Debian CDs rarely engenders (though it's fun anyway).

Roger

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:35:17PM -, Robert Shiels wrote:
> Let's be kind to the poor Windows users, encouraging them with the lure of
> free powerful software;  once they get a taste for it they'll be begging you
> to help them get Linux installed as a dual boot on their home machines, then
> as they get used to it and driver support gets better they'll find
> themselves booting Linux more than Windows, then their conversion away from
> the dark side will be complete :-)

I think the appropriate attitude is to NOT try to convert people, except
possibly in a slightly silly "muh, you must use linux for everything" way
that I personally don't take too seriously.

We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
"aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.

OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
used more in the workplace. I dunno.

Michael

Re: XP, testing and perl

[Piers Cawley]

Greg Cope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Dear All
> 
> All the posts about XP and a Slashdot article about it got me thinking
> and I have a generic question for the virtual floor.
> 
> Does Anyone know of any good perl test tutorials - i.e how to make
> various test suites for a perl modules "make test" target ?
> 
> I've seen the Test::Harness stuff - but am after a guide - or a few
> simple examples.  All the code I read in CPAN modules t/ dir appears to
> be written in any old fasion.

Any old fashion appears to be the done thing at the moment.

> Clues please, otherwise I'll continue to add to the t/ dir code pool in
> any old way.. ;-)

Well, I'm currently going through the Test::Unit code trying to make it
reliable (I had problems when I first used it with it breaking badly
in some strange places), adding some more tests to its test
classes and trying to make its assertion failures rather more
informative. 

Once that's done, Test::Unit is a rather neat set of tools for writing
OO testcases and the like, which even has a rather lovely Tk based
progress thing.

-- 
Piers

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:36:40PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:31:28PM +, Michael Stevens typed:
> >I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
> >you see outside offices.
> D&D is vaguely useful sometimes. Just not when I'm editing text.

I hate to say it, but I'm slowly becoming converted to windows cut & paste.

I like being able to highlight a block of text and hit ctrl-v to replace
that with the contents of the clipboard.

Michael

Re: odd -w effect

[Robert Shiels]

>
> >Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I
forgot
> >that some people use windows.
>
> If only I could.
>
> Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...


Let's just take it as a fact that Linux is better than Windows; we all know
this, we all run Linux for everything at home, we wouldn't even think of
installing Windows.

Now, how far do we go? Do we not take jobs where the employer has any
Windows machines in the office? Do we grudgingly accept that other people
might be allowed Windows machines, but they had better not talk to me about
any of their problems?

Or, as perl advocates, do we realise that 90% of the world is running on
Windows, and that perl and apache and mySQL are free and easily installed on
these systems, and that we can help our friends and colleagues to escape
from VB and IIS and Access and start doing real programming on their own
machines, without trashing their main working environment, the one they
actually must have in order to do their jobs?

I know which one I do.

Not all people who use Windows have a choice, not everyone who has a PC
wants to buy new peripherals because Linux doesn't support the ones they
have yet.

Let's be kind to the poor Windows users, encouraging them with the lure of
free powerful software;  once they get a taste for it they'll be begging you
to help them get Linux installed as a dual boot on their home machines, then
as they get used to it and driver support gets better they'll find
themselves booting Linux more than Windows, then their conversion away from
the dark side will be complete :-)



/Robert

Re: odd -w effect

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:31:28PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

>I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
>you see outside offices.

D&D is vaguely useful sometimes. Just not when I'm editing text.

Anyone played much with PowerArchiver? Freeware WinZip clone. Given
how many unregistered copies are floating around...

R

Re: Stupid Email

[Andy Wardley]

On Jan 24, 11:07am, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> The line I heard was "they decided to line up all the inept middle
> managers at ICL up aganst a wall but they couldn't find a wll long
> enough..."

That's frighteningly close to being true.

I worked at ICL Bracknell 01, the large building you see coming into
Bracknell from the A322.  On the bottom floor we had the humungous
machine hall which accounted for about 2/3rds of the floor space.  There
were offices surrounding it.  People did work here.  The machine room
was 2 floors high so the first floor had only the offices around the
edge and a gallery looking down onto the tops of all the boxes in the
machine room.  People did work here.

The 3rd floor was for sales and marketing suits.  They did what they would
claim was "work" here.  There were a few small groups of people on the
5th floor who also did some real "work".  But apart from them, the upper
8 floors of the building were all management.  Managers progressed up the
company and up the building.

In the late eighties, ICL was bleeding money and got bought out by
Fujitsu, presumably at a knock-down rate.  They kept the top floor and
the bottom 3 floors and kicked the rest out.  The people that is, not
the actual floors themselves.  Unfortunately, the few people who did
survive the culling were generally the really useless twats who spent
their time colouring their noses the right shade of brown and making
sure that they weren't the first ones up against the wall when the
revolution came.  Such is the way.

Nevertheless, I was amused that I went from being 13 layers of management
separation away from Peter Bonfield, the man at the top, to only 4 away.
But he still didn't answer my calls or accept the invitation for a beer
after work.   :-(


A






-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

Re: odd -w effect

[Struan Donald]

* at 24/01 13:18 + Greg McCarroll said:
> * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:50 +, Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> > > > On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
> > > > >Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
> > > > >that some people use windows.
> > > > If only I could.
> > > > Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...
> > > 
> > > Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
> > > with unix line ending conventions...
> > 
> > And Xemacs. Seems to work fine with both Unix and DOS line endings, but
> > I haven't yet worked out how to change them.
> > 
> 
> its more the people, a lot of them want to drag and drop and
> have file menus

i seem to recall from my windows days that textpad was configurable
about these things and has all those nice things that make windows
users feel at home.

struan

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:18:16PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > And Xemacs. Seems to work fine with both Unix and DOS line endings, but
> > I haven't yet worked out how to change them.
> its more the people, a lot of them want to drag and drop and
> have file menus

I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
you see outside offices.

michael

Re: odd -w effect

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:18:16 +, Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:50 +, Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> > > > On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
> > > > >Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
> > > > >that some people use windows.
> > > > If only I could.
> > > > Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...
> > > 
> > > Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to 
> > > save with unix line ending conventions...
> > 
> > And Xemacs. Seems to work fine with both Unix and DOS line endings, 
> > but I haven't yet worked out how to change them.
> 
> its more the people, a lot of them want to drag and drop and
> have file menus

Xemacs for Windows has all of that. And more. Much, much more[1].

Dave...

[1] Some might even say _too_ much more :)

Re: odd -w effect

[Greg McCarroll]

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:50 +, Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> > > On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
> > > >Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
> > > >that some people use windows.
> > > If only I could.
> > > Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...
> > 
> > Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
> > with unix line ending conventions...
> 
> And Xemacs. Seems to work fine with both Unix and DOS line endings, but
> I haven't yet worked out how to change them.
> 

its more the people, a lot of them want to drag and drop and
have file menus


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: odd -w effect

[Philip Newton]

Michael Stevens wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> > Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...
> 
> Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
> with unix line ending conventions...

:set fileformat=unix

Oops, wrong editor :-)

Cheers,
Philip

(Though if fileformats is set to something like "dos,unix", the line ending
should be autodetected and preserved.)

Re: odd -w effect

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:50 +, Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> > On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
> > >Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
> > >that some people use windows.
> > If only I could.
> > Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...
> 
> Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
> with unix line ending conventions...

And Xemacs. Seems to work fine with both Unix and DOS line endings, but
I haven't yet worked out how to change them.

Dave...

Re: XP, testing and perl

[Philip Newton]

Greg Cope wrote:
> Does Anyone know of any good perl test tutorials - i.e how to make
> various test suites for a perl modules "make test" target ?
> 
> I've seen the Test::Harness stuff - but am after a guide - or a few
> simple examples.  All the code I read in CPAN modules t/ dir 
> appears to be written in any old fasion.

Well, there's the Test module, which is supposed to help you write tests,
specifically, tests that will be run under Test::Harness later.

Besides that, I don't know of any good documentation for testing. Maybe some
enterprising soul with too much time on his hands could write some (hint,
hint). "Patches welcome" :-)

You could also try talking to Schwern ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), who's the Perl6
"Kwalitee Ashurance" guy and is also working a bit on Perl5 QA.

Cheers,
Phillip

Re: odd -w effect

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
> >Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
> >that some people use windows.
> If only I could.
> Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...

Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
with unix line ending conventions...

Michael

Re: Stupid Email

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Michael Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 11:32:58AM +, Andy Wardley wrote:
> > There was a moral in this story but I forgot it in the process of
> > rambling on.  Probably something about munging Reply-To, or putting
> > all middle management up against a wall and shooting them (which ICL
> > did a short while later).
> 
> Was this simple yet violent process found to be of benefit to the
> company?

The line I heard was "they decided to line up all the inept middle
managers at ICL up aganst a wall but they couldn't find a wll long
enough..."


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -

Re: odd -w effect

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:

>Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
>that some people use windows.

If only I could.

Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...

R

Re: odd -w effect

[jduncan]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:57:13PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote:
> Mark Fowler wrote:
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > > Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
> > 
> > Unix might have a problem if you take the -w out using a windows based
> > editor which will insert some nasty line terminator at the end of the
> > lines and screw up the file.  That's what I normally find the 
> > problem is when 'nix can't find the file.
> 
> That is, replacing \n by \r\n. As you can see in the error message:
> 
> > >  ": no such file or directory
> 
> which is undoubtedly short for qq("/usr/local/bin/perl\r": no such file or
> directory) -- the carriage return causing the filename to be overwritten by
> the rest of the error message.

Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
that some people use windows.

--james.

 PGP signature

Re: Stupid Email

[Michael Stevens]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 11:32:58AM +, Andy Wardley wrote:
> There was a moral in this story but I forgot it in the process of
> rambling on.  Probably something about munging Reply-To, or putting
> all middle management up against a wall and shooting them (which ICL
> did a short while later).

Was this simple yet violent process found to be of benefit to the
company?

michael

Re: odd -w effect

[Philip Newton]

Mark Fowler wrote:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> > Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> Unix might have a problem if you take the -w out using a windows based
> editor which will insert some nasty line terminator at the end of the
> lines and screw up the file.  That's what I normally find the 
> problem is when 'nix can't find the file.

That is, replacing \n by \r\n. As you can see in the error message:

> >  ": no such file or directory

which is undoubtedly short for qq("/usr/local/bin/perl\r": no such file or
directory) -- the carriage return causing the filename to be overwritten by
the rest of the error message.

Cheers,
Philip

Re: odd -w effect

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 24 January 2001 11:19
Subject: Re: odd -w effect


> > Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
I've also had this problem with CGI scripts running under apache on Windows.

Keep the -w in the file, that's been my solution.

/Robert

XP, testing and perl

[Greg Cope]

Dear All

All the posts about XP and a Slashdot article about it got me thinking
and I have a generic question for the virtual floor.

Does Anyone know of any good perl test tutorials - i.e how to make
various test suites for a perl modules "make test" target ?

I've seen the Test::Harness stuff - but am after a guide - or a few
simple examples.  All the code I read in CPAN modules t/ dir appears to
be written in any old fasion.

Clues please, otherwise I'll continue to add to the t/ dir code pool in
any old way.. ;-)

Greg

Stupid Email

[Andy Wardley]

On Jan 23, 11:53pm, Roger Horne wrote:
> A single email was sent by the powers that be[1]
[...]

Similar thing happened when I worked at ICL many moons ago.  Some executive
sent an email to the 'icl' alias, which for some mind-bogglingly stupid
reason was a valid alias expanding to everyone who worked for ICL.

After an hour or so, the mail host had failed to deliver this one message
to all NN thousand recipients, so it tried to resend it.  But of course
the machine and network were already a little busy trying to send the
first message so it didn't get too far before deciding it had failed and
re-sending it.  GOTO 10.

Meanwhile, the usual bunch of all-knowing, self-righteous idiots with
nothing better to do (i.e. failed technical people promoted to middle
management) starting sending replies to the sender telling him not to
use the global 'icl' alias for such messages.  Naturally, they wanted
everyone to share from the benefit of their wisdom so they made sure
that the original 'icl' distribution was kept intact.

Meanwhile, the usual bunch of know-nothing, self-important idiots with
nothing better to do (i.e. failed middle management moved sideways to
another middle managment position) starting sending replies to everyone
demanding that they stop being sent duplicate copies of all these different
emails.  cc'd to 'icl', of course, because the default (using OfficePower,
a truly jank ICL middleware system) was to simply copy the To: and CC: list
from the original message.

Naturally, it wasn't long before the whole shebang ground to a halt and
fell deeply into castors-up mode.

One of the interesting things I discovered in the ensuing
disentanglement of mail was that our expertly configured mail system
would have accepted mail from the outside world to huge aliases like
'icl'.  Could we spell "Dinial of Serviss"?  I think not.  But I
gleefully shirked my responsibilies and didn't tell anyone about it,
just in case I decided to become a disgruntled ex-employee with a
grudge at some point in future.  :-)=

There was a moral in this story but I forgot it in the process of
rambling on.  Probably something about munging Reply-To, or putting
all middle management up against a wall and shooting them (which ICL
did a short while later).


A










-- 
Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/

Re: odd -w effect

[Mark Fowler]

> Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

Unix might have a problem if you take the -w out using a windows based
editor which will insert some nasty line terminator at the end of the
lines and screw up the file.  That's what I normally find the problem is
when 'nix can't find the file.

Later.

Mark.

P.S. UltraEdit32 is a good choice of Windows editor.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

odd -w effect

[jduncan]

Just had a wierd error that I've been unable to explain.  
We have a script, foo.pl, with #!/usr/local/bin/perl on the top. A 'which
perl' yeilds /usr/local/bin/perl -- all well and good so far.


 % perl foo.pl
   [things work]
 %./foo.pl
 ": no such file or directory
 %

Hmm.  The only thing thats changed is that we've taken the -w out. Okay,
lets put it back:

 % ./foo.pl
   [things work]
 %

Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

--james

 PGP signature

Re: Conslutancy

[Roger Horne]

On Tue 23 Jan, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 
> The issue of millions-of-CCs needs to be addressed by anyone
> putting together a pro-reply-to: sender argument.

Argh [ Off at a tangent ]

I subscribe to a system similar to CIX (University of Guelf conferencing system).

On Friday a "new" virus was discovered which had infected various people. 
A single email was sent by the powers that be[1], *Cc:ed* to each of the 954
subscribers who had logged on at any time in the last 12 months, with a 6.5
mb attachment containing, apparently, an update to some anti-virus software.
And of course some people claimed not to have got the attachment and
replied, cc'ing it to all 954 recipients, asking for it to be resent. Etc.

It turned out that the email software supplied to the users does not have a
Bcc: line and that the default is reply to all. 

Roger H.
[1] A large software company.
-- 
Roger Horne
11 New Square, Lincoln's Inn, London WC2A 3QB
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/