Re: London.pm posting stats
On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 04:26:44AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: This is dated from beginning of last year, and mutt is saying that's about 13,700 messages (gasp!). Note that some people (cough/dcrosscough/) appear more than once. Not that a) they necessarily need it b) have any hope, ever, of catching Greg... Greg McCarroll: 1546 ** Dave Cross: 762 Jonathan Stowe: 729 *** Robin Szemeti: 586 ** David Cantrell: 563 ** Paul Makepeace: 504 Leon Brocard: 459 ** Piers Cawley: 378 David H. Adler: 365 *** I... I'm so proud to have made it this far... *sniff* dha, gettin' all emotional... -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Freedom ain't nothing but a word, ain't nothing but a word. Let me see your ID. - Gil Scott-Heron, Johannesburg
Re: rewind elector
On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, jo walsh wrote:
gah, i feel old and sleepy
As does anyone who got home at 4am ;-)
so nothing changes, but it was nice to realise that in the company of
perlmongers.
Yey. Thanks dave it was much fun, and I only inaproperatly fell asleep
three times... Interesting ride home in the minicab with the driver not
knowing where brick lane or highbury corner was...and me much leafing
through his A-Z and attempting not to notice him getting flashed by speed
cameras
Now all I've got to do is actually get up, tear myself away from the three
tvs (showing breakfast, bbc text, sky news and gmtv) and internet
connection the gareth seems to have set my front room and get to work.
Thanks again Davewas great.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
At the end of the day, the simple fact is that Windows 2000 crashes more frequently than *n[ui]x does -- this surely is unquestioned fact. I just questioned it. Win2k appears to be a very nice OS, although I've never used it at the server end. It may have all sorts of scalability issues and general crapnesses but I've not seen any evidence that it (or NT 4 for that matter) crashed more than Unix. There appear to be near infinite numbers of people who will testify that they worked in some huge IT place and all the NT servers were rebooted daily and all the nix machines had been running since 1988 with no reboots. There are just as many people who will say that they worked in similar environments where both systems hardly ever needed to be rebooted. I've known banks (GS) where solaris machines were rebooted daily or weekly. As for my very limited experience, neither Solaris nor NT crash during normal use as server platforms. I've known NT screw up during some hardware installs and some application installs. But then I've known Solaris do the same for some application installs. -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At the end of the day, the simple fact is that Windows 2000 crashes more frequently than *n[ui]x does -- this surely is unquestioned fact. I just questioned it. Win2k appears to be a very nice OS, although I've never used it at the server end. It may have all sorts of scalability issues and general crapnesses but I've not seen any evidence that it (or NT 4 for that matter) crashed more than Unix. There appear to be near infinite numbers of people who will testify that they worked in some huge IT place and all the NT servers were rebooted daily and all the nix machines had been running since 1988 with no reboots. There are just as many people who will say that they worked in similar environments where both systems hardly ever needed to be rebooted. I've known banks (GS) where solaris machines were rebooted daily or weekly. As for my very limited experience, neither Solaris nor NT crash during normal use as server platforms. I've known NT screw up during some hardware installs and some application installs. But then I've known Solaris do the same for some application installs. Well here are some reasons why i prefer UNIX to Windows * for servers, they are pretty much personal reasons and i'm sure not everyone agrees with them. * GUI I really don't want to have a server running a GUI, it adds at least some overhead, encourages people to `work on the server' and as its an additional process may add additional security concerns. While its possible (at least it was) to configure NT not to have a GUI, the whole toolset is designed to have a GUI and GUI tools available. So with Windows you are pretty much stuck with it, with UNIX, X isn't tightly integrated into the OS. * Mature Server Software Windows leads the world in desktop software, however it doesn't have as much mature server side software, and i'm not just talking about server processes, i'm thinking about Cron, Procmail, Perl, etc. The software that you use to administer and carry out processing with is just as important on a server as your httpd. Windows simply doesn't have as much mature software available on it, and when software is ported from UNIX it often suffers in functionality (e.g. Perl and fork). * There is only one Windows Imagine if every car manufacturor decided to use acme car alarm 2000, car thieves would love it. They'd get a simple acme car alarm disabler kit and off they'd go. This is what is starting to happen with Windows and it will continue to happen. I don't want to be as easy to hack as every other machine on the planet and be part of that great big red bullseye. When the Internet Worm came about it was possible due to there being 2 major types of system mostly configured in the same way, I think we'll see another worm soon but it will attack 2 or 3 types of windows. * MSDN I'd love to read more about Win 32 programming, and the best source is MSDN but it costs too much! Why for once can't they do the right thing and let this information be available to all. Ok, I've just checked and it appears that more information is now available on the web for free, but it wasn't like this a while ago. * DLLs Trust me I'm know what I'm doing - a windows install process changing your DLLs for you. There is entirely to much DLL upgrading for my liking at every possible chance with Windows software/service pack. I don't believe that this can really lead to a stable system. * Red Box vs. Blue Box I want the servers to look different from the desktops, I don't want the head accountant telling the CEO that his son is a wiz on windows and he can go and tweak our server for us. I don't want the requisitions officer to purchase from the same supplier of desktop hardware for server hardware. I just want them to be different. * MS Windows running MS IIS and MS Exchange using MS I do not believe that MS can be the best programmers of ... operating systems databases internet servers mail servers They are good at company structure, but surely they cannot position there company to be the best at everything on a level playing field. And thats just it, its not a level playing field, superior software will be hindered by the secret APIs, etc. And some pieces of software just wont be able to be plugged in - why can't i run Samba on Windows? Can I? I don't know but I doubt it will be easy. * SSH connecting through a cli interface from a remote location where you have limited bandwidth is much better than using a gui remote control tool. and because of windows GUI focus (see earlier GUI point) it simply will never support remote CLI connections as well. * No compiler Why can't there be a compiler? Please just a simple one, so that if i want to write some little program for myself I can do
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
* Dean ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: There is entirely to much DLL upgrading for my liking at every possible chance with Windows software/service pack. I don't believe that this can really lead to a stable system. Win2k address a lot of these issues with its dll and system file control programs. If you change a dll that's needed and the replacement dll doesn't work then the change gets tagged as a failure and rolled back by the system. It seems to work reasonably well, we've had no major dll screw ups. how is this implemented? at filesystem level, i.e. spotting changes of files or via special install programs? will it work if some lunatic simple copies (or retores) a backup over the DLLs actually now that i mention it, time to mention the fact that although windows has a lot of software very little of it supports any concept of filesystems permission that has only been available since NT came about * No compiler Why can't there be a compiler? Please just a simple one, so that if i want to write some little program for myself I can do it there and then. Its not that much to ask, it would just mean that when you get a fresh windows box you dont have to go and waste time installing additional software, and there are other examples of this ... (You said this is about servers) Compilers on servers are a bad idea both from the security perspective and from a stability angle. I don't care how good a coder you are, your not writing code on the server. In a real production environment you need to test it and do change control. I have an issue with this since i got a phone call at 3am this morning after someone did just this. I only leave an interpreter on servers for my own convenience and even then i shouldn't. Of course if your server runs an interpreted language then yes you need it :) thats fine, but what should i do the development on? maybe it should at least be an option in the install process, and i don't mean an option asking Would you like Windows to grab your Credit Card number and order yet another expensive M$ product for you? It will be know trouble we can send the order when we connect to log other information about you and your installed software. Editor Wordpad :) calling wordpad an editor is as laughable as calling vi an editor ;-) Cron The at command or the task scheduler. fine, how do you run something everyday at 3am? -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
* at 08/06 11:35 +0100 Robin Szemeti said:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
calling wordpad an editor is as laughable as calling vi an editor ;-)
arrghh .. burn the heretic! ... speak brother, for the truth will out ..
have you been using [x{0,1]]emacs again ... ?
and thus comes the inevitable end[1] to all unix geek discussions...
struan
[1] or at least end to the bit not based on flames and blind prejudice
:)
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001, Struan Donald wrote:
* at 08/06 11:35 +0100 Robin Szemeti said:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
calling wordpad an editor is as laughable as calling vi an editor ;-)
arrghh .. burn the heretic! ... speak brother, for the truth will out ..
have you been using [x{0,1]]emacs again ... ?
and thus comes the inevitable end[1] to all unix geek discussions...
struan
[1] or at least end to the bit not based on flames and blind prejudice
pah! .. tis written in the scripture ... 'let he who hath one eye be
blessed' .. clearly the 'one eye' is a reference to the one 'i' in vi ..
its *obvious* innit ... I shall found my entire religion on this shadowy
fact wriiten by our lord himself ( or one of his followers, or perhaps
someone just mistranslated it .. or made it up ) however ... if anyone
questions me I shall explain that 'thats what faith is all about' and mark
them up for burning as well ...
--
Robin Szemeti
Redpoint Consulting Limited
Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
* at 08/06 11:54 +0100 Robin Szemeti said: pah! .. tis written in the scripture ... 'let he who hath one eye be blessed' .. clearly the 'one eye' is a reference to the one 'i' in vi .. its *obvious* innit ... I shall found my entire religion on this shadowy fact wriiten by our lord himself ( or one of his followers, or perhaps someone just mistranslated it .. or made it up ) however ... if anyone questions me I shall explain that 'thats what faith is all about' and mark them up for burning as well ... in future years this may be marked down as the dawning of the second dark age. struan
Some pretty pictures ...
... and some not so pretty pictures. http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/london.pm/2001-06-07/ -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
* Struan Donald ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
* at 08/06 11:35 +0100 Robin Szemeti said:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
calling wordpad an editor is as laughable as calling vi an editor ;-)
arrghh .. burn the heretic! ... speak brother, for the truth will out ..
have you been using [x{0,1]]emacs again ... ?
and thus comes the inevitable end[1] to all unix geek discussions...
No, we haven't taught the discussion to send mail yet.
--
Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Re: London.pm posting stats
here is the results from a partial mbox of ny.pm messages, it is not that complete an mbox, but it does indicate that we are simply not doing or best to take over NY.pm does anyone have a larger set of NY.pm messages we could analyse? David H. Adler: 137 ** Michael G Schwern: 77 Jeff Pinyan: 42 *** John van V.: 28 ** Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO: 28 ** guinevere liberty: 25 * David Combs: 24 Greg McCarroll: 21 *** Adam Turoff: 20 *** Brooklyn Linux Solutions: 20 *** Chris Nandor: 18 ** Jordan Coleman: 17 ** Abigail: 16 * David Cantrell: 16 * Joshua Kronengold: 16 * Walt Mankowski: 15 * Jay Sulzberger: 13 Ruben I Safir - Brooklyn Linux Solutions CEO: 13 James E Keenan: 12 Gidon Wise: 11 Martin Heinsdorf: 11 Dave Cross: 10 *** -- Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/
Upcoming technical meeting
Can someone please remind me about the technical meeting on the 21st? Now that it looks like I might be in London at the time, I find I've deleted all the relevant messages and can't remember if there's an archive. -- Peter Haworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... You're in a maze of twisty little Java VMs, all different
JOB: Eng. Proj Management
Hi, A reasonably reliable headhunter I've dealt with in the past is looking for technical project managers for new web company. Let me know if interested... -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sony Clie (was Re: Social meet)
- Original Message - From: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would strongly suggest you check out the Palm M500/505 as they come in the lovely Palm V form factor but have an expansion slot (taking both Secure Digital and Multimedia cards) http://www.palm.com/products/accessories/expansioncards/ Thanks Neil, as the M505 isn't available yet, I actually went for the M500. It's pretty good, and I've just gotten IR syncing working to my Vaio so I don't need to carry the cradle around with me. I've used a quarter of a full charge today already though, which isn't very impressive, my Palm III used to last ages on a couple of AAs, and I wouldn't have dreamt of needing new batteries on a 2 week holiday. /Robert
Re: JOB: Eng. Proj Management
On Fri, 08 Jun 2001, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Hi, A reasonably reliable headhunter I've dealt with in the past is looking for technical project managers for new web company. Let me know if interested... new web company .. wow .. now theres a phrase you don;t here very often these days ... -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
Greg McCarroll wrote on Freitag, 8. Juni 2001 11:11 And some pieces of software just wont be able to be plugged in - why can't i run Samba on Windows? Why would you want to? AFAIK Samba implements the SMB protocol, which is the native resource (file, printer, ...) sharing protocol of Windows. So if you have Windows, you've already got an SMB client and server running. Sounds a bit like How can I port MKS's korn shell to Unix? Is it possible?. Well, maybe the analogy is not so hot, but it's the best I can think of. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Religion
Robin Szemeti wrote: [google] seems able to find the *right* thing .. many many times the thing I want is in the no1 spot Yes. google++, definitely. Its success is probably partly because it looks at how many links point to the page. If lots of people link to site X, then site X is probably (a) really great and trusted by lots of people, or (b) really bad but lots of people think it's great (M*tt's Scr*pt *rch*v*), so it'll show up further up. Which reminds me of something I read in the PuTTY FAQ: Question: Would you like me to register you a snappier domain name? The PuTTY web page is hard to find. Answer: No, it isn't. You type putty into Google and it's the very first thing that comes back. How true. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 07 Jun 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: their Memory Stick is a closed book. Fine with me. Then maybe we'll get decent short range wireless data exchange with good authentication and encryption. and the problem with Lucent Orinoco ( + RC128 ) is? its totally insecure Although most 802.11 equipment is designed to disregard encrypted content for which it does not have the key, we have been able to successfully intercept WEP-encrypted transmissions by changing the configuration of the drivers. http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/isaac/wep-faq.html -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you were inclined to lose your mind, you could stay on the internet all day.
Re: London.pm posting stats
Paul Makepeace wrote on Donnerstag, 7. Juni 2001 13:27:
Greg McCarroll: 1546
**
Dave Cross: 762
Jonathan Stowe: 729 ***
Robin Szemeti: 586 **
David Cantrell: 563 **
Paul Makepeace: 504
Leon Brocard: 459 **
Piers Cawley: 378
David H. Adler: 365 ***
Simon Wistow: 355 ***
Philip Newton: 331 **
Well, I just barely missed being in the Top 10... I didn't think I wrote
*that* much. Horrors.
Oh well, life goes on. And sometimes life includes coming into work on my
last day of holidays because I just *know* london-list will have tons of
messages waiting for me and I don't want to talk half a day on my first day
back to work to sort through them. Well, it was only 683 IIRC (after 2.5
weeks), but still.
PS The ratty bit of code, should anyone wish to automate this, that
produces this is:
cat $* | formail +1 -x From: -ds | perl -lne
's-\\?--g;s/(\w+), ([\w\s]+\w)/$2 $1/;/^ (\w.*) / and
$p{$1}++; END {printf %20s: %4d\n,$p,$n while ($p,$n) =
each %p}' | sort -t : -k 2,2rn | head -40 | perl -lpe
's-(\d+)$-$1 .*x($1*($s||=50/$1))-e'
Any chance of arm-wrestling Greg Bacon's News::Scan into producing stats
from an mbox?
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Upcoming technical meeting
On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:34:28PM +0100, Peter Haworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Can someone please remind me about the technical meeting on the 21st? Now that it looks like I might be in London at the time, I find I've deleted all the relevant messages and can't remember if there's an archive. Well, er..., there will be a meeting on the 21st. I spoke to Alex last night and he said we could hold it at State 51. We'll start at about 7pm and people will be practiving TPC and YAPC::E talks. Thanks about it for planning so far! Dave...
Re: Inline::PERL
Jonathan Peterson wrote:
Oh, and I think the thing about readdir returning the first
entry of an array in scalar context is dumb. That isn't DWIM.
Returning the number of entries in the directory would be
about a million times more sensible (especially if it didn't
count . and .. as entries).
Next you'll be saying that in scalar context should return the number of
lines in the file.
Cheers,
Phi while($file = readdir BLA) { process($file) } lip
--
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: London.pm posting stats
On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:13:19PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: here is the results from a partial mbox of ny.pm messages, it is not that complete an mbox, but it does indicate that we are simply not doing or best to take over NY.pm You know, I've been meaning to ask... Why in the world would you *want* to take over NY.pm??? dha, rabid weasel herder -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ This is Mace's planet. We Just Live here.
Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)
On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:11:13AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * GUI I really don't want to have a server running a GUI, it adds at least some overhead, encourages people to `work on the server' and as its an additional process may add additional security concerns. And huge numbers of people think it's neat to run the GL screen saver using 100% CPU, disabling interrupts so much the system clock drifts by ~10min/hour While its possible (at least it was) to configure NT not to have a GUI, the whole toolset is designed to have a GUI and GUI tools available. So with Windows you are pretty much stuck with it, with UNIX, X isn't tightly integrated into the OS. Remote text-based access ... without additional software. * Mature Server Software Windows leads the world in desktop software, however it doesn't have as much mature server side software, and i'm not just talking about server processes, i'm thinking about Cron, Procmail, Perl, etc. And what there is, is integrated with the o/s (also applies to GUI): if the service goes AWOL it takes out the whole O/S. * No compiler Why can't there be a compiler? Please just a simple one, so that if i want to write some little program for myself I can do it there and then. Its not that much to ask, it would just mean that when you get ActiveState Perl lets you do all the damage you need shurely :-) a fresh windows box you dont have to go and waste time installing additional software, and there are other examples of this ... VNC vi.exe/emacs.exe bash.exe Win/SSH Anti-virus s/ware Intrusion Detection s/ware Lynx Editor Scripting language Cron * Final reason (for now) I don't trust them. Amen -- Chris Benson
Re: [Possible Job] Perl, Linux
Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 08:46:39AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I presume that this is a permie thing? Yes. And I'd estimate that _most_ of you I know would be, um, a bit too heavyweight for them... You calling me fat, boy? I don't know about you, but I'm *definitely* fat. -- Piers Cawley www.iterative-software.com
Re: rewind elector
Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, jo walsh wrote: gah, i feel old and sleepy As does anyone who got home at 4am ;-) so nothing changes, but it was nice to realise that in the company of perlmongers. Yey. Thanks dave it was much fun, and I only inaproperatly fell asleep three times... Interesting ride home in the minicab with the driver not knowing where brick lane or highbury corner was...and me much leafing through his A-Z and attempting not to notice him getting flashed by speed cameras Every so often I like to be reminded of why I don't want to live in London. Thanks for that. -- Piers Cawley www.iterative-software.com
Re: JOB: Eng. Proj Management
Jonathan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A reasonably reliable headhunter I've dealt with in the past is looking for technical project managers for new web company. Let me know if interested... Hmm... I wonder if I could morph... Bet that's a permie thing isn't it? -- Piers Cawley www.iterative-software.com
