Am 31.01.2014 10:13, schrieb jean-michel Catherinot:
the conflict?? Concerning staff notation: there are extremely rare
examples of lute parts in staff notation (Fasch's concerto?, and not
sure it's for D min tuning) .
Indeed we can't be sure about lute parts in notation, for which
I'd accept a Trabant!
RT
On 2/1/2014 10:16 AM, R. Mattes wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 15:42:16 -0500, Roman Turovsky wrote
No one knows.
The only thing known is that the combination of consonants TRB
is absent in all European languages, except for the Slavic ones.
Where did you get this from?
-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:03 AM
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
As already pointed out on a number of occasions, the point about
tablature sources, rather than staff
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 15:42:16 -0500, Roman Turovsky wrote
No one knows.
The only thing known is that the combination of consonants TRB
is absent in all European languages, except for the Slavic ones.
Where did you get this from? Just because I was drinking one while
your mail came in: Teber
On 2/3/2014 12:29 PM, Geoff Gaherty wrote:
As is turbine.
Geoff
that is not related to turbans or theorbos, but rather to the latin
TURBARE, to BOTHER.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
On Feb 3, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:
that is not related to turbans or theorbos, but rather to the latin TURBARE,
to BOTHER.
If you dismiss out of hand any relationship between theorbos and bother, you
lack sufficient experience with theorbos.
--
To
__
From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 31 January 2014, 6:19
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
I don't see that staff notation is peculiar
away. Mostly.
dt
From: jean-michel Catherinot [1]jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com
To: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute
[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
If you read
__
From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 31 January 2014, 5:57
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
That's an interesting set of labels but it doesn't cover all the
historical cases
__
From: jean-michel Catherinot [1]jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com
To: R. Mattes [2]r...@mh-freiburg.de; lute
[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Martyn
Hodgson [4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:14 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's
]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Martyn
Hodgson [4][5]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:14 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Yes: Zamboni in tablature., but indeed you know that!. I consider
that
most
What is the etymology of the word tiorba?
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:03 AM
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
As already
' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 31 January 2014, 21:45
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
What is the etymology of the word tiorba?
-Original Message-
From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Martyn
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
As already pointed out on a number of occasions, the point about
tablature sources, rather than staff notation, is that they oblige a
particular tuning from the named instrument. Thus, for example, the
archlute
To: 'Martyn Hodgson' hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; 'David Tayler'
vidan...@sbcglobal.net; 'lute' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 31 January 2014, 21:45
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
What is the etymology of the word tiorba?
-Original Message-
From: [3
today, Andi
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Arto Wikla
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:01 AM
To: Arthur Ness; Martyn Hodgson; David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Jakob Lindberg had
of the word tiorba?
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf
Of Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:03 AM
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
As already pointed out on a number
-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:03 AM
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
As already pointed out on a number of occasions, the point about
tablature sources, rather than
To: David Tayler; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
As already pointed out on a number of occasions, the point about
tablature sources, rather than staff notation, is that they oblige a
particular tuning from the named instrument. Thus, for example
jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com
To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
If you read the previous messages, and specially, the one from Arthur
Ness, you may
, 2014 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
This doesn't address the point I made to you: that the fundamental
difference between the archlute and the theorbo is in the manner of
stringing - theorbos have the top one or two courses lowered from
nominal
28, 2014 3:35 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Have a look at:
a) the early sources (Bob Spencer's famous paper still represents a
good summary [1]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/index.html
);
b) tablatures identified for the two
@cs.dartmouth.edu; Martyn
Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:14 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Yes: Zamboni in tablature., but indeed you know that!. I consider
that
most of the arciliuto music is written in staff notation, may
Yes: Zamboni in tablature., but indeed you know that!. I consider that
most of the arciliuto music is written in staff notation, may be this
is a particularity of the instrument, and there is no doubt that tuning
is not re-entrant (just have a look to Hasse's Cleofide, for arciliuto
don't know any tablature evidence of the use of vieil ton after
ca1640: indeed you have to read 1650 (I think the last one is
FranAS:ois de Chancy airs de cour-1649)
Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 11h14, jean-michel Catherinot
jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com a A(c)crit :
Yes:
and I've forgot the one of 1655 (I've never seen it, but I suppose it's
in vieil ton). But no solos till ca 1640.
Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 13h02, jean-michel Catherinot
jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com a ecrit :
don't know any tablature evidence of the use of vieil ton after
in fact, the chansons de Chancy are for voices alone. So my firts
mistake was not a mistake1640
Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 14h18, jean-michel Catherinot
jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com a ecrit :
and I've forgot the one of 1655 (I've never seen it, but I suppose
it's
1643 precisely Jean-Michel, with Anthoyne Boesset XVIe Livre d'Airs de cour
avec la tablature de luth...
Cheers,
Jean-Marie
--
in fact, the chansons de Chancy are for voices alone. So my firts
mistake was not a mistake1640
Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 14h18,
__
From: David Tayler [1][2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute [2][3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
The terms
: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute
[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
You write that
'The terms arciliuto and tiorba
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 1:35
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
__
This is a very interesting quote because it falls in between the
classical
__
From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 1:16
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Well, the evidence is in the museums--there are more than two types
of
instruments. Therefore, any attempt to categorize the historical
lutes
as two types does not reflect
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:56:46 +0100, Markus Lutz wrote
This quote is part of a letter, and I think most letters show a very
personal point of view.
Yes, this is important to point out.
Also Weiss clearly states that he gives his opinion.
He doesn't want to be descriptive or prescriptive at
__
From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; David Tayler
vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 11:22
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
On Tue, 28 Jan
; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2014 11:35:20 AM
Have a look at:
a) the early sources (Bob Spencer's famous paper still represents a
good summary [2]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/index.html
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Iconographic sources depict theorbos and/or archlutes with highly
variable numbers of courses and stringing setups. Unfortunately we have
no way of knowing how any particular instrument was tuned. Modern gut,
since its
Am 28.01.2014 12:36, schrieb R. Mattes:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:56:46 +0100, Markus Lutz wrote
He criticises that theorbos often - he even says ordinarily -
are played with nails and therefore have a coarse, harsh sound
(also primarily his opinion!).
Hmm, that's not what he writes - he
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:35:20 + (GMT), Martyn Hodgson wrote
Have a look at:
This is either a non-answer (how utterly Zen) or pretty close to an
(ad hominem) insult.
a) the early sources (Bob Spencer's famous paper still represents a good
summary
hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 16:57
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:35:20 + (GMT), Martyn Hodgson wrote
Have a look at:
This is either a non-answer (how utterly Zen) or pretty close to an
(ad hominem
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 17:10:18 + (GMT), Martyn Hodgson wrote
I'm sorry you find Bob Spencer's paper so very poor.
No need to be sorry, esp. since I don't find Spencer's paper very poor
(where did I write
that?). I only tied to say that it a) shows it's age b) seems to be an
overview-type of
@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.
That is, they are not low or medium, and they are also not
completely
interchangeable (since
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
You write that
'The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.'
What's your evidence for this? The two instruments were tuned in
different
__
From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable
__
From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.
That is, they are not low or medium
great, Gary!Thank you for this sum up. I searched some weeks ago on
RISM with the key arciliuto and so on. Apart for its use in Roma
(and +?), it's outstanding that you find arciliuto obligato in Dresden
's opera (Hasse's Cleofide for instance) at the time of Weiss (and not
On 24/01/14 9:19 AM, Gary R. Boye wrote:
Yes; interesting! We are only talking about Corelli's Op. 1 (Opp. 2-4
all call for archlute according to surviving editions--no mention of
theorbo there). I suppose this could either reflect common practice in a
city (Rome vs. Bologna/Venice) or publisher
; LuteNet list
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
great, Gary!Thank you for this sum up. I searched some weeks ago on
RISM with the key arciliuto and so on. Apart for its use in Roma
(and +?), it's outstanding that you find arciliuto obligato in Dresden
's opera
The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.
That is, they are not low or medium, and they are also not completely
interchangeable (since they are sometimes used together). One could
argue that they are medium instead of high, but it would be
difficult to show
13:56:14 -0800
To: jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com; boy...@appstate.edu;
hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; r...@mh-freiburg.de; edurb...@gmail.com;
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: arthurjn...@verizon.net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Yes, and some of those
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