Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
On 2016-01-07, Georg Baum wrote: > Guenter Milde wrote: >> Generally, it is good to have the options globally, so that other packages >> can pick this up. >> In this document, however, the indexing is confused somehow to use one of >> the secondary languages (given before "english"). > Yes. It is a bug in nomencl.sty: It does not process global language options > in the same (unintuitive) order as babel. BTW: this order (last wins) is the default for many LaTeX packages (inputenc, fontenc, babel). I find it as intutitive as "first wins". Polyglossia deliberately reversed this order (either because it found it "unintuitive" or to "stand out"). However, I don't think nomencl.sty behaviour is due to polyglossia compatiblility. Rather, the case of multiple document languages as global document options is not considered. > The first language wins for nomencl.sty. I fear there is not much LyX > can do, except looking for a better alternative for nomencl (it seems > to be unmaintained). I had the idea that LyX could * Hand all languages directly to babel, and * in addition, put the main language in the global options (for packages like nomencl) However, a test revealed that this does not work: As babel parses first global options and then the local ones and in the process ignores double entries, the document language comes out wrong :-( (This is, indeed, a design flaw in babel.) Second idea: feed supported languages (croatian, danish, english, french, german, italian, polish, portuguese, russian, spanish, ukrainian) directly to nomencl. Test result: * does not work, global options are processed in additon to local ones. * actually, not the order of the languages in the source file is important, but the order of option definitin in nomnecl.sty: i.e. with multiple (supported) languages, the one last in alphabetical order wins! (e.g. [ngerman,spanish,french] will print página (Spanish for page).) So, short of fixing nomencl, ... >> ... we need a document specific setting for this. >> (But see also my other post exploring the issue.) > I think so. In general, any lyxrc setting that changes how documents are > exported to .tex is bad IMHO, since this makes documents depend on the > installation. The lyxrc setting should be replacved by a document specific > setting, and the default for this setting would then be determined by the > template for new documents. Seconded. To make documents independent of the installation, this should also be implemented for * the language package preference, * the font encoding * bibliography processor and options * index generation * nomenclature command Günter
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
On 2016-01-08, Michael Berger wrote: > On 01/07/2016 10:39 PM, Georg Baum wrote: >> Guenter Milde wrote: >>> Generally, it is good to have the options globally, so that other packages >>> can pick this up. >>> In this document, however, the indexing is confused somehow to use one of >>> the secondary languages (given before "english"). ... > Again all my many documents correctly print 'page' (and NOT 'Seite') > with "Set languages globally" deactivated. > Furthermore, it does so regardless whether the secondary language(s) is > given before the primary language or not. Testing revealed, that actually the last of the nomencl-supported languages "wins" out of all languages handed as global options or directly to nomencl.sty. LyX does not pass a language option to nomencl currently. This means: -> With "Set languages globally" deactivated, nomencl uses always English (its built-in default). -> With "Set languages globally" true, nomencl uses the last in alphabetical order out of the intersection of the sets "languages used in the document" and "languages supported by nomencl". This means, currently * you should activate "Set languages globally" if you want, e.g., a German nomenclature for an "all German" document, * this also works for a German document with some English or French (as these languages sort before German), but you * cannot create a document with some Spanish text parts and nomenclature in German. (This would requires "Set languages globally" false PLUS passing of the document language directly to nomencl.sty.) I am not sure, whether this problem should be worked around in LyX (it seems a rather seldom use case) or rather be addressed directly in the nomencl package. (BTW: I have a patch for nomencl.sty support of ngerman in my local texmf folder.) Günter
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
On 01/07/2016 10:39 PM, Georg Baum wrote: Guenter Milde wrote: It is "Tools>Preferences>Language Settings>Language>Set languages globally" which controls whether the language options are passed as global options to the document or directly to babel. Sorry, I was too tired yesterday, and did not recognize the text in my german UI. Generally, it is good to have the options globally, so that other packages can pick this up. In this document, however, the indexing is confused somehow to use one of the secondary languages (given before "english"). Yes. It is a bug in nomencl.sty: It does not process global language options in the same (unintuitive) order as babel. The first language wins for nomencl.sty. I fear there is not much LyX can do, except looking for a better alternative for nomencl (it seems to be unmaintained). Maybe we need a document specific setting for this. (But see also my other post exploring the issue.) I think so. In general, any lyxrc setting that changes how documents are exported to .tex is bad IMHO, since this makes documents depend on the installation. The lyxrc setting should be replacved by a document specific setting, and the default for this setting would then be determined by the template for new documents. Georg Good morning, I follow this with great interest but as a simple user can only report what I observed. And there is more, may be or may not be related to this very issue: With 'Mark foreign languages' _*always ON*_ in Tools > Preferences > Language settings, the foreign (secondary languages) sometimes do and sometimes do not show blue underlines apparently depending on the citation style (and/or biblatex?). For instance I have no blue underlinings with apa, natbib author-year, jurabib And I do have blue underlinings with chicago, oscola So, 'Mark foreign languages' seems to be overruled by some other more dominant setting. Again all my many documents correctly print 'page' (and NOT 'Seite') with "Set languages globally" deactivated. Furthermore, it does so regardless whether the secondary language(s) is given before the primary language or not. Cheers, Michael Berger
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Guenter Milde wrote: > It is "Tools>Preferences>Language Settings>Language>Set languages > globally" which controls whether the language options are passed as > global options to the document or directly to babel. Sorry, I was too tired yesterday, and did not recognize the text in my german UI. > Generally, it is good to have the options globally, so that other packages > can pick this up. > > In this document, however, the indexing is confused somehow to use one of > the secondary languages (given before "english"). Yes. It is a bug in nomencl.sty: It does not process global language options in the same (unintuitive) order as babel. The first language wins for nomencl.sty. I fear there is not much LyX can do, except looking for a better alternative for nomencl (it seems to be unmaintained). > Maybe we need a document specific setting for this. > (But see also my other post exploring the issue.) I think so. In general, any lyxrc setting that changes how documents are exported to .tex is bad IMHO, since this makes documents depend on the installation. The lyxrc setting should be replacved by a document specific setting, and the default for this setting would then be determined by the template for new documents. Georg
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2016 um 09:42:38, schrieb Michael Berger> Hi Robert, hi Wolfgang, > ha, but I've never seen any text in any of my documents underlined blue > (or in any other color)!? Tools->Preferences...->Language Settings->Mark foreign languages > Michael > > On 01/06/2016 08:06 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: > > What I do in the case I have blue underlined parts (from another > > language) is to go to > > edit>text style>customized>language>reset > > and the blue underlines disappear > > Wolfgang > > > > Am 06.01.2016 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Susmilch: > >> I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. > >> > >> I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had > >> languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), > >> etc) and > >> the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and > >> search > >> revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the > >> document > >> compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. > >> > >> I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German > >> words and > >> setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my > >> highlighting > >> issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders > >> language was > >> (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom > >> status bar), > >> then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed > >> your > >> issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to > >> overwrite all > >> local language settings once applied. > >> > > Kornel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Thanks Kornel, Michael On 01/06/2016 09:50 AM, Kornel Benko wrote: Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2016 um 09:42:38, schrieb Michael BergerHi Robert, hi Wolfgang, ha, but I've never seen any text in any of my documents underlined blue (or in any other color)!? Tools->Preferences...->Language Settings->Mark foreign languages Michael On 01/06/2016 08:06 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: What I do in the case I have blue underlined parts (from another language) is to go to edit>text style>customized>language>reset and the blue underlines disappear Wolfgang Am 06.01.2016 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Susmilch: I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), etc) and the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and search revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the document compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German words and setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my highlighting issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders language was (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom status bar), then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed your issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to overwrite all local language settings once applied. Kornel
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Sorry, of course, the blue underlines are there!! I reckon it is still too early in the morning. Michael On 01/06/2016 09:42 AM, Michael Berger wrote: Hi Robert, hi Wolfgang, ha, but I've never seen any text in any of my documents underlined blue (or in any other color)!? Michael On 01/06/2016 08:06 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: What I do in the case I have blue underlined parts (from another language) is to go to edit>text style>customized>language>reset and the blue underlines disappear Wolfgang Am 06.01.2016 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Susmilch: I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), etc) and the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and search revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the document compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German words and setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my highlighting issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders language was (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom status bar), then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed your issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to overwrite all local language settings once applied.
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Hi Robert, hi Wolfgang, ha, but I've never seen any text in any of my documents underlined blue (or in any other color)!? Michael On 01/06/2016 08:06 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: What I do in the case I have blue underlined parts (from another language) is to go to edit>text style>customized>language>reset and the blue underlines disappear Wolfgang Am 06.01.2016 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Susmilch: I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), etc) and the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and search revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the document compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German words and setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my highlighting issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders language was (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom status bar), then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed your issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to overwrite all local language settings once applied.
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Hi Wolfgang, Robert, Kornel, thanks for your contributions. I just want to inform that in my case only one thing produces correct results and that is deactivating the global language settings. Here it does not matter whether or not the blue underlines are there or not. Michael On 01/06/2016 09:50 AM, Kornel Benko wrote: Am Mittwoch, 6. Januar 2016 um 09:42:38, schrieb Michael BergerHi Robert, hi Wolfgang, ha, but I've never seen any text in any of my documents underlined blue (or in any other color)!? Tools->Preferences...->Language Settings->Mark foreign languages Michael On 01/06/2016 08:06 AM, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: What I do in the case I have blue underlined parts (from another language) is to go to edit>text style>customized>language>reset and the blue underlines disappear Wolfgang Am 06.01.2016 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Susmilch: I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), etc) and the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and search revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the document compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German words and setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my highlighting issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders language was (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom status bar), then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed your issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to overwrite all local language settings once applied. Kornel
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
On 2016-01-06, Georg Baum wrote: > Michael Berger wrote: >> Hi Wolfgang, Robert, Kornel, >> thanks for your contributions. >> I just want to inform that in my case only one thing produces correct >> results and that is deactivating the global language settings. Here it >> does not matter whether or not the blue underlines are there or not. > What does "deactivating global language settings" mean? I am not aware of > any global language setting that can be activated or decativated. Please > tell us exactly which setting you change in Deocument->Settings->Language > (or in Tools->Preferences) It is "Tools>Preferences>Language Settings>Language>Set languages globally" which controls whether the language options are passed as global options to the document or directly to babel. Generally, it is good to have the options globally, so that other packages can pick this up. In this document, however, the indexing is confused somehow to use one of the secondary languages (given before "english"). Maybe we need a document specific setting for this. (But see also my other post exploring the issue.) Günter
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Michael Berger wrote: > Hi Wolfgang, Robert, Kornel, > thanks for your contributions. > I just want to inform that in my case only one thing produces correct > results and that is deactivating the global language settings. Here it > does not matter whether or not the blue underlines are there or not. What does "deactivating global language settings" mean? I am not aware of any global language setting that can be activated or decativated. Please tell us exactly which setting you change in Deocument->Settings->Language (or in Tools->Preferences) Georg
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Hi, Starting the original document with the global language settings activated the word "Seite" prints in the Nomenclature. After deactivating the global settings the correct result "page" is returned. After this first and only repair the correct result "page" is returned even when the global settings is reactivated and this is permanent. Anyway, this was the behavior in the 40 pages original document. I reported this to Günter and he commented: In any case, you found a bug in LyX. The question is, whether it only appears in a very specific corner case or maybe is "self healing". If you can reproduce the problem with a minimal example, it would be nice if you could post it to the list or file a bug report at bugs.lyx.org. The minimized example is attached. However, very much to my surprise the behavior is now slightly different in that one may now repeatedly toggle the global language settings ON or OFF and will accordingly get "Seite" or "page". I also found the culprit right on the front page: Universität Leipzig Institut für Linguistik Beethovenstraße 15 D-04107 Leipzig, Germany With these four lines removed the problem is also gone. (but of course, they are needed) So, what have we here and where is my mistake? Cheers, Michael LyX Document testfile-biblatex_oscola.lyx Description: application/lyx
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
What I do in the case I have blue underlined parts (from another language) is to go to edit>text style>customized>language>reset and the blue underlines disappear Wolfgang Am 06.01.2016 um 02:19 schrieb Robert Susmilch: I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), etc) and the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and search revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the document compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German words and setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my highlighting issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders language was (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom status bar), then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed your issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to overwrite all local language settings once applied.
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
I think this is a similar issue that I’ve encountered. I’ve copied and pasted material between different LyX documents that had languages set to different languages (such as English, English (USA), etc) and the words would be underlined in blue (IIRC). Much frustration and search revealed that this was highlighting different languages within the document compared to the global document language, which LyX then highlighted. I imagine that LyX, or another package, is picking up those German words and setting a language switch somewhere. I’ve successfully fixed my highlighting issues by switching the default language to whatever the offenders language was (seen by placing the cursor on the words, and seen at the bottom status bar), then back to my desired language. This sounds exactly like what fixed your issue, when you swapped languages. This global setting seems to overwrite all local language settings once applied. -- Respectfully, Robert Susmilch === The "gobbledygook" in this email is due to this email having been "signed" with PGP for security. On Tuesday, January 05, 2016 08:53:00 PM Michael Berger wrote: > Hi, > Starting the original document with the global language settings > activated the word "Seite" prints in the Nomenclature. After > deactivating the global settings the correct result "page" is returned. > After this first and only repair the correct result "page" is returned > even when the global settings is reactivated and this is permanent. > Anyway, this was the behavior in the 40 pages original document. > > I reported this to Günter and he commented: > In any case, you found a bug in LyX. The question is, whether it only > appears in a very specific corner case or maybe is "self healing". If > you can reproduce the problem with a minimal example, it would be nice > if you could post it to the list or file a bug report at bugs.lyx.org. > > The minimized example is attached. > However, very much to my surprise the behavior is now slightly different > in that one may now repeatedly toggle the global language settings ON or > OFF and will accordingly get "Seite" or "page". > > I also found the culprit right on the front page: > Universität Leipzig > Institut für Linguistik > Beethovenstraße 15 > D-04107 Leipzig, Germany > With these four lines removed the problem is also gone. (but of course, > they are needed) > > So, what have we here and where is my mistake? > > Cheers, > Michael > LyX Document signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Dear Michael, On 2016-01-04, Michael Berger wrote: > On 01/03/2016 03:20 PM, Guenter Milde wrote: >> On 2016-01-03, Michael Berger wrote: > the last thing I want is an academic discussion of this issue. I understand and value this decision. However, my concern is to find out if at the core of the issue is something we can improve in LyX. So, if you have some time, it would be nice if you could produce a minimal working example (i.e. a test document with the minimal requirements and preamble code and content that still shows the problem). >>> thanks for your reply. But as I explained in my subsequent e-mail dated >>> 1. January 2016 I resolved the issue myself using trial and error after >>> deactivating 'Set languages globally' in Tools < Preferences > Language >>> settings. >>> To me not quite logical on first glance, is it? >> ... >> I think that something is still set to German, it only no longer >> affects the nomenclature... > sure, it looks as if something is still set to German. However, I > checked all settings one more time (document, global settings, preamble, > openSuSE's interface language and installation, whatsoever) and there is > not the faintest indication that something is set to German. > If a German setting should be hidden in / triggered by a Default setting > than IMHO it is still illogical. > Of course, there are some German words in the document, but then there > are also Indonesian, Greek words etc. in it. OK. If there are German words in the document AND you set the langugage of the text part with German words to German, LyX will pass this setting to LaTeX - loading babel or polyglossia in the preabmle with all languages (explicitely) used in the document. If global settings is on, the language settings are there for all packages to share, otherwise they are given directly to the babel package. Usually, global is fine, as this ensures that indices and similar are also localized to the document language. However there may sometimes be an undesired side-effect, if the document language is not supported by some package while one of the secondary languages is... Günter
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
On 01/03/2016 03:20 PM, Guenter Milde wrote: On 2016-01-03, Michael Berger wrote: ... thanks for your reply. But as I explained in my subsequent e-mail dated 1. January 2016 I resolved the issue myself using trial and error after deactivating 'Set languages globally' in Tools < Preferences > Language settings. To me not quite logical on first glance, is it? Not for me: ... my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface is also set to English just like everything else - nothing is set to German. I think that something is still set to German, it only no longer affects the nomenclature... Günter Hallo Günter, sure, it looks as if something is still set to German. However, I checked all settings one more time (document, global settings, preamble, openSuSE's interface language and installation, whatsoever) and there is not the faintest indication that something is set to German. If a German setting should be hidden in / triggered by a Default setting than IMHO it is still illogical. Of course, there are some German words in the document, but then there are also Indonesian, Greek words etc. in it. Anyway, my brilliant idea ;-) produced what is needed and the last thing I want is an academic discussion of this issue. LyX is just great and so is the list. Michael
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
On 2016-01-03, Michael Berger wrote: ... > thanks for your reply. But as I explained in my subsequent e-mail dated > 1. January 2016 I resolved the issue myself using trial and error after > deactivating 'Set languages globally' in Tools < Preferences > Language > settings. > To me not quite logical on first glance, is it? Not for me: ... >> my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface >> is also set to English just like everything else - nothing is set >> to German. I think that something is still set to German, it only no longer affects the nomenclature... Günter
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
2015-12-27 16:44 GMT+01:00 Michael Berger : > Dear friends of LyX, > my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface is also > set to English just like everything else - nothing is set to German. > I am so much more puzzled when the nomenclature prints the German word for > page, e.g. > > V2 requirement...is defined..., Seite 21 > > while I wanted to see 'Page 21'. > > Can somebody explain why this happens and how it can be corrected? > Not without an example document. Jürgen > > Thanks and have a Merry Christmas! > Michael Berger >
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Hi Jürgen, thanks for your reply. But as I explained in my subsequent e-mail dated 1. January 2016 I resolved the issue myself using trial and error after deactivating 'Set languages globally' in Tools < Preferences > Language settings. To me not quite logical on first glance, is it? Cheers and thanks, Michael On 01/03/2016 02:02 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: 2015-12-27 16:44 GMT+01:00 Michael Berger : Dear friends of LyX, my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface is also set to English just like everything else - nothing is set to German. I am so much more puzzled when the nomenclature prints the German word for page, e.g. V2 requirement...is defined..., Seite 21 while I wanted to see 'Page 21'. Can somebody explain why this happens and how it can be corrected? Not without an example document. Jürgen Thanks and have a Merry Christmas! Michael Berger
Re: Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
This was resolved by myself using trial and error: I deactivated 'Set languages globally' in Tools > Preferences > Language Settings Cheers, Michael Berger On 12/29/2015 02:23 PM, Michael Berger wrote: Dear friends of LyX, my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface is also set to English just like everything else - nothing is set to German. I am so much more puzzled when the nomenclature prints the German word for page, e.g. V2 requirement...is defined..., Seite 21 while I wanted to see 'Page 21'. Can somebody explain why this happens and how it can be corrected? Thanks and have a Merry Christmas! Michael Berger
Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Dear friends of LyX, my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface is also set to English just like everything else - nothing is set to German. I am so much more puzzled when the nomenclature prints the German word for page, e.g. V2 requirement...is defined..., Seite 21 while I wanted to see 'Page 21'. Can somebody explain why this happens and how it can be corrected? Thanks and have a Merry Christmas! Michael Berger
Nomenclature prints 'Seite' instead of 'page'
Dear friends of LyX, my linguistic papers are all written in English, LyX's interface is also set to English just like everything else - nothing is set to German. I am so much more puzzled when the nomenclature prints the German word for page, e.g. V2 requirement...is defined..., Seite 21 while I wanted to see 'Page 21'. Can somebody explain why this happens and how it can be corrected? Thanks and have a Merry Christmas! Michael Berger