On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 1:30 PM Brian White wrote:
> Why bother with the larger .do copy? Just load "foo" and then save "foo2".
> Now you have both foo.ba and foo2.ba, both in small tokenized form.
>
>
Cause it don’t chooch ;-)
You can only save / give a name to the
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:15 PM, John Gardner wrote:
> Your code can figure out it's execution address with something like:
>
> call @Boo
> Boo pop B
> pop A
>
> Boo's address is now in register pair A,B...
>
But you kind of already know since that code would
Here is the classic 8085 relative jump for those interested.
It requires some code at a fixed location :-)
RelJMP.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:10 AM Kurt McCullum wrote:
> My 200 was picky about the DSR/DTR lines. I seem to recall that without a
> loopback of those it wasn't happy.
>
>
If the wifi232 is not asserting the t200’s DSR it ought to be! Maybe it’s
configurable.
— John.
Self-locating code.
Ron Wiesen did some research a long time ago to figure out code in the ROM
that could tell you where you are calling from.
This is a critical part of code that can efficiently relocate itself to
run-in-place or at a specific location.
-- John.
-- Forwarded message
The relative branch technique I’ve seen requires a few bytes of code at a
fixed location.
— John.
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Stephen Adolph
wrote:
> Ken,
> so you are suggesting the .BA file calls into the .DO file? interesting.
>
> When I embed programs as strings, I write the program to avoid codes <32
> d.
> ex.
> mvi a,00
> is bad
> xra a
> is good.
>
>
Maybe the best of both
Very cool! Lots of food for thought.
There are different trade offs going on
Use ram hidey hole(s), or not as you mention
Using short branch or long branch
Protecting listability by avoiding bytes < 32
What registers to protect and which to assume come out damaged
Cycles required for a
On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 3:02 PM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I'm pretty sure basic will modify some of the codes below 32. It is not
> just about listing. Ie the codes are changed. Might be worth confirming
> though.
>
>
During execution? Like READ? Or tokenization. The idea I think would be to
On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 11:27 AM Ken Pettit wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> Thanks, not a final solution, but as you said, food for though. Thinking
> about your point below about protecting listability for bytes < 32, if
> the goal were an HLA generating a BASIC vehicle, there really wouldn't
> be a need
Yeah maybe.
I thought we decided it was okay to have low values if you don’t EDIT /
Load / list. Always tokenized. Which is unfortunate since you cannot inload
from DO. But you can’t inload the CR files you want to run directly either.
Also ISTR you could hide some basic lines in a range that
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Ken Pettit wrote:
> On 5/31/18 1:48 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
>>
>> -clip- Who spends time writing code whose only purpose is to prevent
>> software from working?
>>
>
> Hmm, let's see ... Cadence, Synopsys, Autodesk,
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:41 PM, Eric Nelson wrote:
> I did try and toggle the control flow using the STAT line to no avail, but
> I did not tinker with the settings on the Wifi232. I will give that a shot
> and report back. Thanks for the help!
>
>
DTR/DSR is enforced here and there by the ROM
Funny, I had no idea the iPhone camera feature would activate QRCode links!
In the past you had to rely on a barcode scanner app being installed and
launched.
So if you have the QRCode below on a card or sticker or something, you just
Open Camera
Point it at the QRCode
Your iPhone or iPad will
" Instead of forcing the calling routine to restore HL, I would instead
code it using XTHL/RET vs. PCHL:"
Yeah that is cleaner.
-- John.
Awesome. Thanks Steve, and Ken.
2nd rule of optimization is also don’t.
3rd rule of optimization: Not yet!
Messed it up.
3rd rule of optimization (only for experts): not yet!
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:25 AM John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> 2nd rule of optimization is also don’t.
>
> 3rd rule of optimization: Not yet!
>
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:10 AM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> Not yet. I'm going to be testing in a bit and I will let you know. I
> always use laddie for my development, but it would be good to know if other
> solutions like Nadsbox have any issue too.
>
> actually - another question.
> Any issue
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:14 AM Kurt McCullum wrote:
> The file size is returned as two bytes per the protocol. As long as it
> returns a value less than 64k you should be fine as the packets don't care
> about how many are sent.
>
> Kurt
>
I remember there being 4 bytes of file size, though
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Stephen Adolph
wrote:
> It looks like the T200 puts the 82c51 into async x16 at address 8713h in
> the rom. (out C8 where a =4Eh
>
> clock has to be 5x faster in this mode, so for 76800 we'd need a clock
> rate of 76800x16x5 = 6.144MHz. clearly.. not going to
tchar ((file_len >> 24) & 0xFF); //$$
outchar ((file_len >> 16) & 0xFF);
}
outchar (checksum (resp, resp_len));
}
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:23 AM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:14 AM Kurt McCullum wrote:
>
>> The file size i
Well that dlpilot large file logic is based on reverse engineering a real
tpdd 2. So it should be compatible with all clients.
It’s not documented anywhere apparently! Was beginning to doubt my memory.
Well I guess it isn’t wonderful since I left it out of laddie.
— John.
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 1:35 PM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> success! for the most part this yields clean transmission. From time to
> time I think there is a buffer overrun due to BASIC being slow. or maybe
> the link corrupts, don't know yet. It might lose sync.
>
> T200 ---> T200 @76800
>
>
Very nice. Code? :-)
— John.
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:50 PM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> John how did you stumble upon this little gem?
>
>
>
I don’t know. I can’t find it in the list archives. It was a fuzzy memory
rolling around in my head.
I’m guessing Ron W told me though.
In any event it’s very old behavior. It’s in
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:35 AM Brian White wrote:
> I feel like I'm witnessing a strange form of history after history. What a
> thing to discover in 2018.
>
>
I’m sure this hidden lines stuff was well understood, just by a very select
group of neckbearded men ;-)
Lots of people were selling
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:37 PM Ken Pettit wrote:
> Correct. It is listable and editable, but if you edit it, after exiting
> TEXT you will end up with line 6553 instead with a 0 in it:
>
> 6553 0 PRINT"Yea!"
>
I wonder if that could be used as a corruption detector.
>
> Also, for lins
Hah! Neat trick! Didn’t occur to me that you could have more than one of
the same basic line. But it makes sense I guess. It’s already tokenized.
Unless you tried to reference the line number in some way which you can’t
for those hidden lines anyway.
— John.
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:01 AM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> no, I think you still need line numbers, but that is an interesting thing
> to check. it amounts to running a line longer than 256 bytes.
>
>
Yeah I was wondering the same thing. You commented above about assigning a
string so you could
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:17 AM Ken Pettit wrote:
> Hey Steve,
>
> Were you able to load / save using TS-DOS with this also? I believe it
> should work, but TS-DOS does have to modify the "next BASIC line address
> pointers" when it inloads an .BA file.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
Loading by cassette is
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=LaddieCon#LaddieAlpha
also mComm might run under WINE in Linux. You need to create a winebottle
for it, install mono, and you need to create a COM port reference to your
serial port in the wine config.
-- John.
On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 2:27 PM Eric Nelson wrote:
> I wanted to thank everyone who had the suggestions to assist me with
> getting the Model 200 and TELCOM to connect to BBSs using the Paul Rickards
> Wifi232 modem.
>
> Unlike my Model 102, which "just worked" with the modem, the 200 did not.
>
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Ken Pettit wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> Yes, low values are doable in BASIC, just potentially dangerous. As far a
> inloading CR file, they could simply be called .CO files instead. Make the
> first instruction a RET in case anyone tries to launch it directly. Then
>
ions for hiding BASIC lines. But using Steve's
> encoding technique for ML in strings (escape low codes with a / character),
> it would be fairly quick and easy to decode the relocator from an encoded
> BASIC string into ALTLCD.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On 6/4/18 11:41 AM, John R. Hogerhuis
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I have an update.
> I ran 76800 baud from T200 to T200 successfully with no errors for 3 days
> of continual I/O.
> In this experiment, I had a small delay at the Tx end between
> transmissions.
>
> When I remove that delay, transmission
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 5:34 PM, Ken Pettit wrote:
> Oh, and a while ago I realized that a 128 byte table isn't required for
> opcode sizes in the relocator. Each opcode is 1, 2 or 3 bytes, so encode 4
> opcode sizes into a single byte (2-bits each) and you end up with a 32 byte
> table. Just
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:13 PM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I intend to find out! for moving 1.6MB into the M100/T200, I think it
> should make a difference.
>
> My Rx loop reads a byte and places it directly in the target location.
> can't go much faster than that.
>
>
Cool!
Just keep in mind that
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:21 PM Ken Pettit wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> Very interesting. It looks like the range is actually 65531-65536 that
> are invisible. They don't even show up with a full program edit. You
> can't GOTO or GOSUB to them, but you can put "65529 REM" and then GOSUB
> 65529.
I assume you DIM A$ somewhere else?
— John.
On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:29 PM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> yes, I do have a dim but ..not sure it matters though. I think I tried
> with and without.
>
Hmm. Not sure how the basic variable allocator works. But if putting F=0
makes it work or not work I suspect that assigning F for the first time
On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:43 PM, Stephen Adolph
wrote:
> I think you must be right John,
> because this line works
>
> 20 PRINT A$(S):F=256*PEEK( VARPTR(D$(S)) +2)+PEEK( VARPTR(D$(S)) +1)
>
>
Yeah, the theory being that F as a left-hand-side of a (implied) LET
allocates F before the (two) VARPTR
Yeah I had an "IT guy" in my neighborhood think this is a joke since
rebooting wouldn't fix anything,
But from what I've read, the malware downloads part of itself from the
internet after a reboot.
But the trick here is that law enforcement has taken over the domain it
reaches out to, so
On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 5:13 AM Jeffrey Birt wrote:
> >>> Anytime a new scalar (i.e. non-array) variable is created, the
> addresses of the array variables must all change to make room for the new
> scalar variable.
>
>
>
> So BASIC copies all the arrays to a new memory address? That does not
Every once in a while a spam message makes it through to the list from a
subscribed member. Very rare. It appears at first glance that it was not
the subscribers intention to send it.
I’ve set the moderate bit on the account for now so any further spam should
not make it to the list.
I won’t
On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 9:25 AM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> John, I wasn't able to declare variables in any meaningful way to solve
> this problem. Only assignment seemed to work. Do you know a trick for that?
> steve
>
No I think you’re probably right, storage attaches and variables move when
you
Very nice.
Seems like this destroys DE and HL.
You have to sacrifice some register as the relative offset, I guess.
As a small improvement, since the code at WHEREAMI is
XTHL
PCHL
it is actually preserving the original HL on the stack before it "returns".
So, you could remove the POP D and
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Stephen Adolph
wrote:
> basic programs can't have binary codes <32decimal. I think most or all of
> those codes have special meanings.
> all of these options would be nice to capture in a document.
>
What I was wondering is, is that an issue of untokenized
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 3:05 PM Ken Pettit wrote:
> Yeah, later tonight when I get back.
>
> Ken
>
>
Hey between this and your high level assembly you could make a programming
language that would compile fast code into BA vehicle.
Fast code, no more CLEAR silliness.
— John.
ogram. There are quite a few
>>>> comments in the ASM code.
>>>>
>>>> Again, the concept:
>>>>
>>>> 1. INT array T(0-6) is initialized using BASIC assign statements with
>>>> an ASM THUNK to perform DAD D operation.
>>>> 2. VARPTR(T(0)) is passed to the ML program in H$ string.
>>>> 3. The T() array address is store off so the ROM JUMPTHUNK code will
>>>> jump there (fixed CALL to jump to variable address).
>>>> 4. The Accumulator holds a short jump distance.
>>>> 5. Relative branching is done by:
>>>>
>>>> MVI A, offset
>>>> CALL LOCATEME
>>>> CALL JUMPTHUNK
>>>> XTHL
>>>> RET
>>>>
>>>> If a large ML program is needed in BASIC, one could expand/modify the
>>>> code above a bit and poke it into a hidey hole. Then each relative jump
>>>> would become:
>>>>
>>>> MVI A,offset
>>>> CALL hidey_hole
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> On 6/2/18 2:56 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Very nice. Code? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> — John.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Seems like the mask rom would be the least likely thing to fail, but I
suppose it's possible. Keep in mind it's not an EEPROM that can get erased
though.
-- John.
FWIW, the Club100 library URLs work in CloudT's "Add URL" feature since it
converts Club100 FTP URL's to http://
-- John.
Lots of new subscribers lately. Welcome to all!
As of today we have exactly 400 members :-) Which is about 100 more than
the Facebook group which is saying something in this era of whiz bang web
apps. I think it says we're old and resistant to change ;-)
We endeavor to maintain a friendly
There are battery covers on thingverse. I think you can get a 3rd party to
print them if you don’t have the equipment.
— John.
That sounds more like a disk drive or disk problem.
I assume that is farther than it gets without any cable connected at all?
— John.
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 10:01 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
>
>
I believed you Mike :-)
-- John.
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Willard Goosey wrote:
>
>
> (*)Man you should read some of the rants in TCJ and comp.os.cpm. C and
>
By TCJ you mean The Computer Journal, right?
I loved that magazine. Still have my complete set of back issues.
-- John.
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Brian Brindle wrote:
>
> The RTC request is based on the way I utilize my M100s. I'm constantly
> doing a total wipe on them for one reason or another
>
What file service do you use if any? You mentioned moving images around to
VIrtualT
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Brian Brindle wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> To move RAM images around I"m using REX, creating a backup of the RAM
> image and saving it to "disk" or in this case Mcomm or my NADS. I like
> Mcomm because the directory it saves everything in on the
Mark says it got no interest on the list?
Apologies to Mark... I must have missed it.
Sounds pretty cool.
— John.
600 baud is about the speed of the M100 display generation. You should be
able to communicate at higher baud rates if you’re not outputting to the
screen and/or flow control is implemented.
— John.
Well, it looks like Windows uses Unicode for filenames in NTFS. FAT uses
the OEM character set.
The special characters are
'\', '/', '.', '?', and '*'
It wouldn't be a big deal to map those to/from other characters in
LaddieAlpha since I already maintain a filename mapping table for various
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Brian White wrote:
> If you aren't going to use a solid state cap that can't ever leak a
> corrosive substance onto the board, then why trade a sleep time of months
> for a sleep time of days?
>
>
Yep.
Nothing lasts forever... replace with a
What are you running on model t?
One thing you could try is load a big text file and blast it out at 19200
by using TEXT. You simply save the file to COM:98n1d
This is assuming you already have wimodem connected to something ahead of
time but I don’t see any reason why characters would get lost
On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Ron Lauzon wrote:
> I'll give HTERM a shot and see what happens.
>
> I was under the impression that the TELCOM program did hardware flow
> control if I told it to disable XON/XOFF.
>
>
Nope, disabling software control = no flow control at all.
On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 11:26 PM Peter Vollan wrote:
> Then why does dmesg say that the driver is only for testing and one
> off purposes?
>
Would you run
lsmod | grep-iH usb
And
lsusb
— John.
Well that confirms that ftdi_sio, the normal Linux driver is being used for
usbserial.
lsusb would given some details about vid and pid and manufacturer.
-- John.
0403 is an Ftdi vid.
So whatever problem is occurring is likely to be hardware / cabling issues
no linux driver.
— John.
Kurt has a recent vintage TPDD client he wrote
http://club100.org/memfiles/index.php?=0==Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client
— John.
It’s probably working then.
It’s hard coded for one baud rate, maybe it’s not matching or not
compatible with that device.
What baud rate do you want, I’ll build you a new one.
— John.
On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:16 PM, John Gardner wrote:
> Did'nt know I had a whitelist... :) Thanks, I'll look into it.
>
> ...
>
>
Yes... you can add each person individually. In fact, you might be able to
create a rule that says if it comes from this mailing list AND it's
On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:10 PM, John Gardner wrote:
> Msgs from some members of the several lists I monitor regularly
>
> end up in my (gmail) spam folder - No idea why...
>
> ...
>
Seems to be Yahoo, I think maybe add these specific users to your
whitelist?
-- John.
On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 11:12 AM, Ron Lauzon wrote:
> I can easily change the baud rate of the WiModem232 with TELCOM. What
> baud rate is it looking for?
>
>
It's probably set for 38400. Some USB devices can generate it, some can't.
I don't know about WiModem232.
Here's a
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:15 PM Chris Kmiec wrote:
> Thanks, I've emailed the Ken from Club 100 few times, but I never got a
> response, so I'm assuming that place is no longer in business.
>
> The Cleu rom looks interesting, I don't suppose anyone has a EPROM with it
> that
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:50 AM, Ron Lauzon wrote:
> Yes. I saw no dropped characters with both versions.
>
>
:-)
Best thing is to develop code on your PC, and test (at least initially) in
VirtualT.
as8085 is available. I use Telemark Assembler because it's simple and
familiar to me but I'm not even sure if you can download it anymore. May be
better to use something else for new work.
-- John.
On Tue, Jan
That's great news! There's a lot of pent up demand for Rex boards.
Club100 is truly its members working to help each other.
-- John.
On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 12:18 PM you got me wrote:
> what if the problem isn't with the cable, but the speed of the processor
> and a time out scenario? When I transfer files from a desktop to a TPDD I
> have to use an additional program called slowdown. When i set slowdown
On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 1:44 PM Josh Malone wrote:
> I'm also working toward a small REX module run. PCBs were delivered
> Thursday. I'm still tracking down the rest of the parts. I'll keep the list
> posted.
>
So much win :-)
If anyone has trouble locating the flash
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 10:12 AM, Fugu ME100 wrote:
> Was this with the standard TS-DOS or a modified version to account for the
> WiFi delays?
>
Not sure. It's whatever is installed in my REX. It reports as version 4.00
but I'm not sure if the version was rev'd when it was
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Tom Hoppe wrote:
> Do you know if this unit supports hardware flow control?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
It does. In fact, to get higher baud rates (anything higher than 300 baud)
to work I needed to enable hardware flow control on the Wimodem232 and use
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 4:34 AM Stephen Adolph wrote:
> I have managed to do this using bluetooth and a smartphone as well. very
> cool.
Yeah we’ve had all of this stuff working for a while in one form or
another. It’s nice to see a direct WiFi connection now though.
At
On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 10:10 AM, Fugu ME100 wrote:
>
> Putting it inside an M100 would severely reduce the range with all the
> nice EMI shielding and plastic case itself. I had thought an ESP with the
> external antenna option might work best, repurpose the Modem
Well if you’re directly connected via serial or Bluetooth to an a android
machine then you can probably just run the login / shell on the port with
no middle man.
But if you want to telnet into a shell on the android unit over WiFi then
socat would come in handy.
— John.
A couple other things:
Besides setting the termcap, In order to run W3M and browse the web, I had
to set the cols and rows in my display manually
stty cols 40
stty rows 8
I've attached the 19200bps version of HTERM.CO
HTERM.CO
Description: Binary data
On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 12:10 PM, Jim Anderson wrote:
> So, if anyone recalls the issue I posted about here a couple of months
> ago... I'd been trying out a WP-2 as a quieter notetaking device but was
> having some issues with the keyboard - extraneous characters would come
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:26 AM Brian White wrote:
> You have pegged me sir!
> But I consider that perfectly honestly.
>
> I love the amount of videos that people are making these days, or have
> been for years in some cases.
> Lately, not counting when I google a specific
So did either or both resolve the lost character issue?
— John.
You're still having wiring problems, I guess.
You didn't mention what disk service you're using, maybe you did before.
We really need to have a kit or something for people... it really shouldn't
be this hard.
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Peter Vollan wrote:
> Well,
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:03 PM Peter Vollan wrote:
> TS DOS. I have a Rexx actually. And dlplus under loinux mint. Yes I
> know it should not be this hard. I wish we lived in "should" land.
>
Well maybe we need a pc based diagnostic program that can check both data
Ah right. I think I was confusing portable computing with portable 100.
Thanks for adding this stuff to archive.org
— John.
I thought all the portable computing mags were already scanned?
Uploading to archive.org is of course a good idea.
— John.
Oh yeah.
Files are staged on a virtualized tape. From basic, CLOAD or CLOADM.
I think from applications you can specify CAS: to load from cassette.
— John.
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:45 AM Jim Anderson wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > Also if you just want to
On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:48 AM Kevin Becker wrote:
> So I gave it a go on a fresh Fedora 27 VM and the binary is complaining
> that it wants libjpeg.so.9 and I have libjpeg.so.62. I tried a symlink but
> it really wants that specific version.
>
>
Well when you decide to
Btw for best results with CloudT use Chrome or Safari.
— John.
Good to know... yeah, if I knew that, I'd forgotten about it.
In LaddieAlpha I do a bunch of transformations on the filenames to make
them TS-DOS / Model T friendly and not cause crashes. I build fixes for
problems like this into the code (then promptly forget about them).
I'll check and see if
The problem isn’t so much the compile as what packages are installed on
your machine. Even if we release binaries that doesn’t mean it will run.
What we really need is Debian and Redhat packages released and kept up to
date. That would solve the problem since packages include metadata about
Are you able to install it? Most install the same way.
If so can you tell what it’s for?
— John
Download some The Rainbow coco magazines online. They had a one liner
contest ongoing and they printed the winners to fill dead space in the
magazine. Lots of tricks there.
Some things I can think of:
Compute complicated logic and do one IF then else. Traditional Microsoft
basic is
Yeah based on those guidelines I would interpret self written as any non
rom code. I think Ken is interpreting it as a prohibition on self modifying
code.
I suspect if you fiddle with for loops you can do anything with a for loop
and calculations you can with if else statements. So you can
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