Re: Question regarding the Doc on Mac - possible solution

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Gary,

Have your friend try the following and see if it helps:

1.  Go to the Dock using VO + D, and place focus on the icon for the Downloads 
folder.
2.  Use VO + SHIFT + M, to open a shortcut menu that will allow you to change 
how the folder contents are viewed.
3.  Use VO + Up/Down Arrows to navigate this menu so that category headings can 
be read.
4.  Navigate to the Display As category, and choose Folder.
5.  Use VO + D to return focus to the Dock, and VO + SHIFT + M to reopen the 
shortcut menu.  Then navigate the menu to the Display Content As category, and 
choose List.

This should allow contents of the Folder to be read by voiceOver.

HTH

- Brad -


> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:52 AM, 'Gary Price' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yo everyone!
> This is Gary here.
> 
> Please can anyone tell me if they have noticed something strange recently.
> I'm talking to my friend in Australia, he has noticed something strange with 
> the Doc on Mac.
> 
> When he goes to say Downloads, when he presses Enter a menu comes up on the 
> screen, but VoiceOver wont speak anything and the keyboard is totally  
> nresponsive.
> 
> I know this because he has a little bit of sight.
> 
> I've just tried this on my Mac and I can duplicate the exact same thing.
> 
> This is since updating to the latest Mac operating system of catalina.
> 10.155
> 
> thanks very much!
> I look forward to any responses!
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
> http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice
> 
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Matthew Whitaker]

I use the Apple Podcasts app and Overcast... whatever I feel like using I 
guess What’s the difference between Downcast and Castro? Sounds like two 
good options for us to use. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:02 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
> 
> I use OverCast. I hear a number of Blind IOS users are switching to a 
> PodCast App called Castro.
> 
> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
> Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words without 
> a heart.”
> 
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Angus MacKinnon]

I use OverCast. I hear a number of Blind IOS users are switching to a PodCast 
App called Castro.

Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words without a 
heart.”

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

Using Fn + Tab works like a charm.  No double tapping necessary.

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 15:19, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Dave,

Yeah, I know. The problem is that I have to tap it several times to get it to 
work, it’s very cludgy.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 3:00 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> The far left location on the touchbar defaults to Escape. Double tap there.
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:50 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> That's interesting. I could probably live with the touch bar if I had an 
> escape key.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> In addition to going back to keyboards with a scissor-switch mechanism, both 
>> MacBook Pro and MacBook Air keyboards now use and inverted-T style layout 
>> for arrow keys and have a physical Escape key.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:05, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s 
>> one reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:Macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
>>> about.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
> On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
 Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
 - Brad -
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
 list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
 If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
>> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes 
> the processor in the Air.
> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
> your money.
> - Brad -
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines > > wrote:
> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you 
> probably would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of 
> writing. So I use dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit 
> weird but I’m slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries > >
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>> I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>> starts at $1799.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
>>> I can get.
>>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>>> Any ideas 

Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Brad Snyder]

I highly recommend Overcast.  It is straight-forward, uncluttered and free.

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 21:09, lenron brown  wrote:

down cast here but I know some swear by overcast

On 6/27/20, Phil Halton  wrote:
> I’ve tried to love this app, Apple’s podcast app, but it’s just not
> happening for me. What are other people using for podcast listening?
> Something that’s well organized, Intuitive  and easy to use with voiceover.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
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-- 
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[lenron brown]

down cast here but I know some swear by overcast

On 6/27/20, Phil Halton  wrote:
> I’ve tried to love this app, Apple’s podcast app, but it’s just not
> happening for me. What are other people using for podcast listening?
> Something that’s well organized, Intuitive  and easy to use with voiceover.
>
> Sent from my IPhone
>
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Apple podcast app alternative

[Phil Halton]

I’ve tried to love this app, Apple’s podcast app, but it’s just not happening 
for me. What are other people using for podcast listening? Something that’s 
well organized, Intuitive  and easy to use with voiceover.

Sent from my IPhone

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Re: Question regarding the Doc on Mac.

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Can confirm. This is definitely an odd one. Will see if this is fixed in 11 
public beta when it comes out.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:56 AM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> I don’t get anything like that, but I set up where command n will open my 
> downloads so I never use the doc, not for anything honestly.
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:52 AM, 'Gary Price' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yo everyone!
> This is Gary here.
> 
> Please can anyone tell me if they have noticed something strange recently.
> I'm talking to my friend in Australia, he has noticed something strange with 
> the Doc on Mac.
> 
> When he goes to say Downloads, when he presses Enter a menu comes up on the 
> screen, but VoiceOver wont speak anything and the keyboard is totally  
> nresponsive.
> 
> I know this because he has a little bit of sight.
> 
> I've just tried this on my Mac and I can duplicate the exact same thing.
> 
> This is since updating to the latest Mac operating system of catalina.
> 10.155
> 
> thanks very much!
> I look forward to any responses!
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
> http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice
> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Leo,
I assure you that such things matter to many, even if native speakers.
May I ask where to locate neural voices?
Would I be correct in guessing that, these voices cannot be incorporated 
into voiceover as an option?
Its profoundly frustrating, the lack of understanding that some folks 
desire  one or two clear quality voices for their computing needs, instead 
of this odd idea of one voice per task for per program.
After all in theory adaptive tools serves as extension of or 
substitutions for, or  combinations of physical activity in many cases.
I do not use  one pair of hands to do the dishes, and another pair for 
typing.
Fully respecting individual choices, speaking personally, why should I 
apply  one voice for banking and another for reading e-mail?

Kare



On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, Leo Bado wrote:

I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. For me 
everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and pronunciation. 
Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very important for me since 
I'm not a native English speaker, but I understand that they might not make 
much of a difference for a native English speaker. Well, what can I say? for 
the most part, this is a subjective matter



Best,
   Leo

On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:

 Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when
 using Edge on a Mac??

 - Brad -

 On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado  wrote:

 ???
 well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however,
 I was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but
 sadly, they don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I
 usually read articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are
 working on the latest release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.



 Best,
 Leo
 On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>  I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very 
>  well. You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium 
>  since voiceover reads things very similarly to how things read in 
>  Chrome, but there are some differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took 
>  steps to make Edge accessible or if this was automatic from how Chromium 
>  is designed, either way, we now have another accessible browser on Mac 
>  OS and that's a good thing.
> 


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Did the Spell-Checker Change in the Mail app?

[Dave Carlson]

Seems like recently the spell checker will jump to the quoted message thread 
and check spelling there, as well as in the message I composed. Can’t find a 
way to tell it to ignore the quoted text. Any suggestions?

Dave Carlson
Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Farfar, Woodworker, and Pioneer




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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Karen Lewellen]

Actually Donna, your posts generate a question...perhaps one worth its own 
thread.

Just how many devices do most of you own?
Kare



On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:


Just to throw something else into the mix here, I???d been thinking about 
replacing my 2017 MBP, but have decided to wait till the Macs with the new 
silicon chip are released. Something to think about, unless you really need to 
replace it now.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:42 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:

???don???t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If you 
want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don???t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.

- Brad -


On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:

Hello, I???m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I???m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.

Sincerely Maurice Mines.





On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though as I 
will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Karen Lewellen]

does not mean you cannot still find apple machines  that come with them 
however, if the hardware is important to your specific needs.

Kare



On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, Anne Robertson wrote:


Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne





On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.


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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Yes, I like my MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar. Although the new ones with the 
physical escape button would be an improvement. It is very easy too 
accidentally touch the bar and VoiceOver will say escape. Using VoiceOver isn’t 
so bad as we need to double tap to activate it but I’ve heard that sighted 
users are accidentally touching the escape key quite a lot. I think that’s why 
they changed it back to a button.

> On 27/06/2020, at 15:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi ET,
> 
> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
> pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
>I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts 
> at $1799.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>> I can get.
>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> > campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>> 
>> 
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   It does work in some places. I found it interesting that the command 
took me to the last app on the page, But if I touch the dock I could 
then use command to move inside the container. So moving the mail app to 
the last position would then work for the space 4-5-6 command.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 12:51 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hope you have better luck with the lottery than I've ever had. lol

The one drawback to the container approach is that containers don't work on the 
phone, only on the iPad. *sigh*
Cheers,
Donna



On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:46 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   The is a default command to move to containers so if this works then you 
could use that plus the assigned commands within the container. I am out of 
steam now or I would play with it too.

   I need to win the lottery. Then I can get that new Mac!

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:39 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hey! That's an interesting idea! I think it does qualify as a container, so 
I'll give that a try. Thanks! Good luck with your new Mac.
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands 
to move to the top ot bottom of the container.

   Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

No, I don't either.
So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
Cheers,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items on 
the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay options 
for the dock in the assignment list.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
screen so use space 4-5-6.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Books app on mac and braille.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I’m not sure I know what you mean. I usually associate those parameters with 
speech rather than braille. When I am reading in the Books app on my iPhone or 
iPad I just use the panning buttons to scroll left and right. I don’t think he 
would want them to jump by paragraph. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:09 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> Can you read by sentence or paragraph using braille in the books iOS app? 
> You can’t read by anything other than line using voice over. Just curious 
> might get me into braille if that could be done. Currently I can read by 
> sentence in the MacBooks app, but nowhere else.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:59 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Anders,
>> 
>> The Books app on the Mac is not very intuitive, but it’s much better in IOS. 
>> I read books in braille on my phone and my iPad all the time. I would 
>> definitely recommend giving your iPad a try.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:56 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I am tryng to read a book in the books app with braille.
>>> To be honest its not very intuitive.
>>> So i was thinking if it would be easier to do this on my Ipad Mini 4 
>>> instead?
>>> What do you all think?
>>> Thanks.
>>> /A
>>> 
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Re: Books app on mac and braille.

[Phil Halton]

Can you read by sentence or paragraph using braille in the books iOS app? You 
can’t read by anything other than line using voice over. Just curious might get 
me into braille if that could be done. Currently I can read by sentence in the 
MacBooks app, but nowhere else.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:59 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Anders,
> 
> The Books app on the Mac is not very intuitive, but it’s much better in IOS. 
> I read books in braille on my phone and my iPad all the time. I would 
> definitely recommend giving your iPad a try.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:56 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am tryng to read a book in the books app with braille.
>> To be honest its not very intuitive.
>> So i was thinking if it would be easier to do this on my Ipad Mini 4 instead?
>> What do you all think?
>> Thanks.
>> /A
>> 
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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave,

Yeah, I know. The problem is that I have to tap it several times to get it to 
work, it’s very cludgy.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 3:00 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> The far left location on the touchbar defaults to Escape. Double tap there.
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:50 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's interesting. I could probably live with the touch bar if I had an 
> escape key.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> In addition to going back to keyboards with a scissor-switch mechanism, both 
>> MacBook Pro and MacBook Air keyboards now use and inverted-T style layout 
>> for arrow keys and have a physical Escape key.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:05, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s 
>> one reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>    As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
>>> about.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
> On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
 Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
 - Brad -
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
 list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
 If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
>> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes 
> the processor in the Air.
> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
> your money.
> - Brad -
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines > > wrote:
> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you 
> probably would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of 
> writing. So I use dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit 
> weird but I’m slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries > >
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>> I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>> starts at $1799.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
>>> I can get.
>>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>>> Very best wishes.
>>> Andy.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>> >> 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Dave Carlson]

Donna,
The far left location on the touchbar defaults to Escape. Double tap there.

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:50 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

That's interesting. I could probably live with the touch bar if I had an escape 
key.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> In addition to going back to keyboards with a scissor-switch mechanism, both 
> MacBook Pro and MacBook Air keyboards now use and inverted-T style layout for 
> arrow keys and have a physical Escape key.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:05, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s 
> one reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
>> about.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
 On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
>>> - Brad -
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>>    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
>>> list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
>>> If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
 don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
 processor in the Air.
 If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
 If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
 Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
 ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
 one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
 your money.
 - Brad -
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  > wrote:
 Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
 now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
 reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
 have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
 would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
 dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m 
 slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.
 Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty > > wrote:
> 
> Hi ET,
> 
> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  >
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> 
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
> starts at $1799.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
>> I can get.
>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>> 
>> 
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>> > campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>> 
>> 
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>> or if you feel that a member's post is 

Re: beta testers?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hey Kliph,

I was just thinking about installing the beta. Is that group still live?
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Kliph Senior  wrote:
> 
> I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior > > wrote:
>> 
>> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  
>> Contact me at
>> sturi...@icloud.com 
>> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>  
> .

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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Leo Bado]

I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. For 
me everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and 
pronunciation. Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very 
important for me since I'm not a native English speaker, but I 
understand that they might not make much of a difference for a native 
English speaker. Well, what can I say? for the most part, this is a 
subjective matter



Best,
   Leo

On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:

Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when using 
Edge on a Mac??

- Brad -

On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado  wrote:


well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however, I 
was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but sadly, they 
don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I usually read 
articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are working on the latest 
release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.



Best,
Leo
On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing.



--
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list.

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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hope you have better luck with the lottery than I've ever had. lol

The one drawback to the container approach is that containers don't work on the 
phone, only on the iPad. *sigh*
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:46 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   The is a default command to move to containers so if this works then you 
> could use that plus the assigned commands within the container. I am out of 
> steam now or I would play with it too.
> 
>   I need to win the lottery. Then I can get that new Mac!
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/27/2020 11:39 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hey! That's an interesting idea! I think it does qualify as a container, so 
>> I'll give that a try. Thanks! Good luck with your new Mac.
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
>>> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
>>> 
>>>   Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 No, I don't either.
 So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
 keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
 minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with 
 iOS.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
> options for the dock in the assignment list.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not 
>> a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like 
>> there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you 
>> can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
>>> on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
 Best,
 Donna
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>  wrote:
> 
> I think it’s chord d…
> 
> Cait
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly 
>> to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take 
>> you to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll 
>> backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way 
>> to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  Thanks in 
>> advance for any help.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the 
>> list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

That's interesting. I could probably live with the touch bar if I had an escape 
key.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> In addition to going back to keyboards with a scissor-switch mechanism, both 
> MacBook Pro and MacBook Air keyboards now use and inverted-T style layout for 
> arrow keys and have a physical Escape key.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:05, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s 
> one reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
>> about.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
 On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
>>> - Brad -
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>>    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
>>> list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
>>> If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
 don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
 processor in the Air.
 If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
 If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
 Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
 ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
 one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
 your money.
 - Brad -
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  > wrote:
 Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
 now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
 reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
 have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
 would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
 dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m 
 slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.
 Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty > > wrote:
> 
> Hi ET,
> 
> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  >
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> 
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
> starts at $1799.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
>> I can get.
>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>> 
>> 
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>> > campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>> 
>> 
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>> at: mk...@ucla.edu 

Re: beta testers?

[Kliph Senior]

I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior  wrote:
> 
> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
> me at
> sturi...@icloud.com 
> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
> 
> 

-- 
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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Ahoy Dave,
Just velcro the hub out of sight and rout your cables to it discretely.
Good reason for a hub is to save your jack on your lap top.
Just like a "patch bay"! LOL
Usually looks like a porky pine after all the  wires but is   mounted away from 
your movements!
A?
Chuck
"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Dave Carlson wrote:

> Chuck, Yes I have one of those hubs. Sure, there’s now only a single cable 
> connected, but a bunch connected to the hub. Same spaghetti. And don’t let me 
> get started on these new USB C jacks. It only means that now I have to have a 
> collection of USB A/C adapters laying around. And what’s wrong with having 
> those jack on the rear edge of the Mac? Oh, well. At least it’s a nice fast 
> computer.
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 7:48 AM, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> What about a hub.
> 1 cable to the hub then let that be the cable cluster!
> BTW dvd/cd burners are still used every day for some recording clients that 
> like them.
> So I always have to have a cd burner hooked up for clients needs.
> Chuck
> "God does not play dice with the universe"
> "Albert Einstein’
> 
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Dave Carlson wrote:
> 
>> How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
>> sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
>> drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
>> Dave Carlson
>>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
>> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
>> anymore.
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Simon.
>>>  
>>> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
>> 
>> 
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> 

beta testers?

[Kliph Senior]

If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
me at
sturi...@icloud.com 
Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.


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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

In addition to going back to keyboards with a scissor-switch mechanism, both 
MacBook Pro and MacBook Air keyboards now use and inverted-T style layout for 
arrow keys and have a physical Escape key.

- Brad -

On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:05, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s one 
reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
> about.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>> Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
>> - Brad -
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
>> list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
>>  If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
 On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>>> processor in the Air.
>>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
>>> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
>>> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
>>> your money.
>>> - Brad -
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines >>> > wrote:
>>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
>>> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
>>> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
>>> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
>>> would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
>>> dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly 
>>> learning to live with it. Very best wall.
>>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
 
 Hi ET,
 
 I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
 book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >>> >
 Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
 
 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
 though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
 starts at $1799.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Hi all.
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
> I can get.
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
> 
> 
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>  campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> --
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Brad Snyder]

Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when using 
Edge on a Mac??

- Brad -

On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado  wrote:


well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however, I 
was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but sadly, they 
don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I usually read 
articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are working on the latest 
release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.



Best,
   Leo
On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. 
> You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover 
> reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
> differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or 
> if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
> another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 
> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   The is a default command to move to containers so if this works then 
you could use that plus the assigned commands within the container. I am 
out of steam now or I would play with it too.


   I need to win the lottery. Then I can get that new Mac!

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:39 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hey! That's an interesting idea! I think it does qualify as a container, so 
I'll give that a try. Thanks! Good luck with your new Mac.
Donna


On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands 
to move to the top ot bottom of the container.

   Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

No, I don't either.
So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
Cheers,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items on 
the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay options 
for the dock in the assignment list.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
screen so use space 4-5-6.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hey! That's an interesting idea! I think it does qualify as a container, so 
I'll give that a try. Thanks! Good luck with your new Mac.
Donna

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:33 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands 
> to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
> 
>   Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, I don't either.
>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
>> command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
>> futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
>>> options for the dock in the assignment list.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a 
 huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there 
 should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can 
 create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on 
> the screen so use space 4-5-6.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>> Best,
>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it’s chord d…
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to 
 the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you 
 to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll 
 backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way 
 to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  Thanks in 
 advance for any help.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 -- 
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 Visionaries list.
 
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 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
 
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 mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
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>>> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.


   Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

No, I don't either.

So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
Cheers,
Donna



On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items on 
the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay options 
for the dock in the assignment list.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
screen so use space 4-5-6.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

No, I don't either. 

So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items on 
> the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay options 
> for the dock in the assignment list.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a 
>> huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there 
>> should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create 
>> it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on 
>>> the screen so use space 4-5-6.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
 Best,
 Donna
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>  wrote:
> 
> I think it’s chord d…
> 
> Cait
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to 
>> the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to 
>> the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to 
>> get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move 
>> directly to the first item in the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 
items on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not 
see ay options for the dock in the assignment list.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
screen so use space 4-5-6.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
> screen so use space 4-5-6.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>> Best,
>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it’s chord d…
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the 
 dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the 
 bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to 
 the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to 
 the first item in the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 -- 
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 Visionaries list.
 
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 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
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 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on 
the screen so use space 4-5-6.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna



On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:

I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Leo Bado]

well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; 
however, I was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as 
well, but sadly, they don't... and for me this feature it's very 
important since I usually read articles on internet. I don't know if 
those voices are working on the latest release, but if someone gives it 
a try, let us know.



Best,
   Leo

On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing.



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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, Brad. I knew about the number keys, but I didn't know about FN+Tab.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:49 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> For those with TouchBar MacBook Pros, if you are not aware, in most 
> use-cases, holding down VO + Fn, will allow the number row keys to perform as 
> F-keys.  Additionally, holding down the Fn key, will allow the Tab key to 
> function as the Escape key.
> This should be true for all Macs running macOS 10.12 Sierra and newer.
> 
> HTH
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 07:08, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> I would add that I also use an MBP with a touch bar. I’ve gotten used to it, 
> but I’m not really a fan. I love how it’s contextualized, but I almost always 
> have to tap it three or four times to get it to activate. Overall, I would 
> say using the touch bar is slower than using function keys. I’m seriously 
> considering going back to the Air just to get function keys back.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:37 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi July.
>> 
>> I hate my Phone.  I've had three of them now and simply haven't spent enough 
>> time learning about the command swipes, so I just use my phone for emergency 
>> cover when in town.  Bit of a waste eh?  I like my 2013 Macbook pro as it 
>> has a reasonable keyboard with no swip bar and I can use a full size apple 
>> keyboard.  So I'm not sure at all about the Air.
>> 
>> Very best wishes.
>> 
>> Andy.
>> - Original Message - From: "Julie Rattray" > >
>> To: "'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries" > >
>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>> 
>>> Yes I use a Mac with a Touch Bar and really like it it does help with 
>>> certain tasks and if you are used to using the iPhone etc getting used to 
>>> it is not really to difficult.
>>> 
> On 27 Jun 2020, at 04:37, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
 
 Hi ET,
 
 I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
 book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >>> >
 Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
 
  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
 though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
 starts at $1799.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Hi all.
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
> I can get.
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
> 
>   
> >
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>  
> campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> I think it’s chord d…
> 
> Cait
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the 
>> dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the 
>> bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to 
>> the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to 
>> the first item in the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   If I could get to the Apple store I could see for myself and maybe 
bring home a new Mac.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 10:04 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s one 
reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
about.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
- Brad -
On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:
   Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my list. 
I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
   If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:

don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   If 
you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C ports 
and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, you 
should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.
- Brad -

On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines mailto:maur...@maurice-amines.com>> wrote:

Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.
Sincerely Maurice Mines.

On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:


Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though as I 
will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

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or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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can reach Cara
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

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30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I don’t think they’re using the butterfly keyboards at all anymore. That’s one 
reason I was thinking about upgrading. I really don’t like that keyboard.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 12:02 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
> about.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>> Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
>> - Brad -
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>>    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
>> list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
>>   If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
 On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>>> processor in the Air.
>>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
>>> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
>>> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
>>> your money.
>>> - Brad -
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines >>> > wrote:
>>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
>>> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
>>> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
>>> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
>>> would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
>>> dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly 
>>> learning to live with it. Very best wall.
>>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
 
 Hi ET,
 
 I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
 book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >>> >
 Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
 
  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
 though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
 starts at $1799.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Hi all.
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
> I can get.
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
> 
> 
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>  campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> you can reach Cara
> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
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> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good 
things about.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:

Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.

- Brad -

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my list. 
I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.

   If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   If 
you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C ports 
and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, you 
should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.
- Brad -
On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines mailto:maur...@maurice-amines.com>> wrote:
Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.
Sincerely Maurice Mines.

On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:


Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though as I 
will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
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the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara
at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

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30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7
.


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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu 
 and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.

- Brad -

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my list. 
I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.

  If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
> processor in the Air.
> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   If 
> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
> money.
> - Brad -
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  > wrote:
> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
> to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
> Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
> it. Very best wall.
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries > >
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though 
>> as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at 
>> $1799.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
>>> I can get.
>>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>>> Very best wishes.
>>> Andy.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>> >> campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/000601d64c0a%24708d71
>>> 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7
>>> .
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on 
my list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.


   If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes 
the processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air. 
  If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option 
for your money.


- Brad -


On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines > wrote:


Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you 
probably would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of 
writing. So I use dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit 
weird but I’m slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.


Sincerely Maurice Mines.




On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty > wrote:


Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a 
mac book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,




-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >

Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
starts at $1799.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara

at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

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30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7
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mark at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 



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downloading MS Edge for Mac

[Brad Snyder]

For those interested in trying MS Edge on their Mac, below is a link to the 
Microsoft Edge download page.
While I definitely prefer using Safari because of the full Apple ecosystem 
integration, MS Edge on a Mac is an alternative for those with one foot in the 
Microsoft world, and an alternative to Google Chrome, and Google's disregard 
for user privacy.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge?form=MA13DC=MA13DC 


- Brad -


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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

It's a separate download, if you do a google search for microsoft edge it 
should be the first result.

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> Is MS Edge part of the Office 365 suite, or a separate download?
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. 
> You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover 
> reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
> differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or 
> if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
> another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 
> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

[Caitlyn Furness]

I think it’s chord d…

Cait


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the 
> dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the 
> bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to 
> the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to 
> the first item in the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

MacBook Airs have 2 USB-C ports.  One on each side.  Except for the headphone 
port, there are no other ports on the Air.

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:36, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Andy,

I don't know how many USBs the new MacBook Airs have, but I can tell you that 
when I replace this MacBook Pro, it will probably be with an Air. I'm very meh 
about the Pro, but I absolutely loved my Air.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:19 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
>  
> I'd agree with you 100% .  Why use up a perfectly good USB  which you may 
> rarely use.
>  
> Perhaps this is an option I can add to my new Mac set up.t, though the number 
> of USB's and the quality of the keyboard are of great importance to me.
>  
> I love the Apple External full-size USB keyboard, so there is a USB used up 
> immediately and my External USB drive is another.  So I need more than 2 USB'S
>  
> Very best wishes.
>  
> Andy.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>> Yeah, but how often do you really need a DVD drive? I bought a portable one 
>> that I keep in a desk drawer, and only connect it when I need it. About the 
>> only thing I ever use it for is importing CDs into my iTunes library, which 
>> I rarely need to do now, as most of my music has already been imported. So 
>> that DVD drive spends most of its life just sitting there in the drawer. I 
>> would never have it permanently hooked up to my Mac, that'd just be a waste 
>> of a perfectly good USB port.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dave Carlson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice 
>>> beautiful sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, 
>>> and DVD drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all 
>>> around it.
>>> Dave Carlson
>>>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
>>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
>>> anymore.
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
 mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Hi Simon.
  
 I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Brad Snyder]

MS Edge is not a part of Microsoft365.  It is a separate product/download. 

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:25, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Mike,
Is MS Edge part of the Office 365 suite, or a separate download?

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Mike Arrigo mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

For those with TouchBar MacBook Pros, if you are not aware, in most use-cases, 
holding down VO + Fn, will allow the number row keys to perform as F-keys.  
Additionally, holding down the Fn key, will allow the Tab key to function as 
the Escape key.
This should be true for all Macs running macOS 10.12 Sierra and newer.

HTH

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 07:08, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I would add that I also use an MBP with a touch bar. I’ve gotten used to it, 
but I’m not really a fan. I love how it’s contextualized, but I almost always 
have to tap it three or four times to get it to activate. Overall, I would say 
using the touch bar is slower than using function keys. I’m seriously 
considering going back to the Air just to get function keys back.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:37 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi July.
> 
> I hate my Phone.  I've had three of them now and simply haven't spent enough 
> time learning about the command swipes, so I just use my phone for emergency 
> cover when in town.  Bit of a waste eh?  I like my 2013 Macbook pro as it has 
> a reasonable keyboard with no swip bar and I can use a full size apple 
> keyboard.  So I'm not sure at all about the Air.
> 
> Very best wishes.
> 
> Andy.
> - Original Message - From: "Julie Rattray" 
> To: "'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries" 
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:05 AM
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> 
>> Yes I use a Mac with a Touch Bar and really like it it does help with 
>> certain tasks and if you are used to using the iPhone etc getting used to it 
>> is not really to difficult.
>> 
 On 27 Jun 2020, at 04:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ET,
>>> 
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>> 
>>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
 I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.
 
 
 Virus-free. www.avast.com
 
 
 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Andy,

I don't know how many USBs the new MacBook Airs have, but I can tell you that 
when I replace this MacBook Pro, it will probably be with an Air. I'm very meh 
about the Pro, but I absolutely loved my Air.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:19 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna.
>  
> I'd agree with you 100% .  Why use up a perfectly good USB  which you may 
> rarely use.
>  
> Perhaps this is an option I can add to my new Mac set up.t, though the number 
> of USB's and the quality of the keyboard are of great importance to me.
>  
> I love the Apple External full-size USB keyboard, so there is a USB used up 
> immediately and my External USB drive is another.  So I need more than 2 USB'S
>  
> Very best wishes.
>  
> Andy.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>> Yeah, but how often do you really need a DVD drive? I bought a portable one 
>> that I keep in a desk drawer, and only connect it when I need it. About the 
>> only thing I ever use it for is importing CDs into my iTunes library, which 
>> I rarely need to do now, as most of my music has already been imported. So 
>> that DVD drive spends most of its life just sitting there in the drawer. I 
>> would never have it permanently hooked up to my Mac, that'd just be a waste 
>> of a perfectly good USB port.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dave Carlson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice 
>>> beautiful sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, 
>>> and DVD drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all 
>>> around it.
>>> Dave Carlson
>>>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
>>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
>>> anymore.
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
 mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Hi Simon.
  
 I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Dave Carlson]

Mike,
Is MS Edge part of the Office 365 suite, or a separate download?

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 

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Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing. 

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['andrew' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Donna.

I'd agree with you 100% .  Why use up a perfectly good USB  which you may 
rarely use.

Perhaps this is an option I can add to my new Mac set up.t, though the number 
of USB's and the quality of the keyboard are of great importance to me.

I love the Apple External full-size USB keyboard, so there is a USB used up 
immediately and my External USB drive is another.  So I need more than 2 USB'S

Very best wishes.

Andy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:30 PM
  Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro


  Yeah, but how often do you really need a DVD drive? I bought a portable one 
that I keep in a desk drawer, and only connect it when I need it. About the 
only thing I ever use it for is importing CDs into my iTunes library, which I 
rarely need to do now, as most of my music has already been imported. So that 
DVD drive spends most of its life just sitting there in the drawer. I would 
never have it permanently hooked up to my Mac, that'd just be a waste of a 
perfectly good USB port.
  Cheers,
  Donna



On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:


How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice 
beautiful sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and 
DVD drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around 
it.

Dave Carlson

 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker


On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:


Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,


Anne








  On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


  Hi Simon.

  I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.




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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Dave Carlson]

Chuck, Yes I have one of those hubs. Sure, there’s now only a single cable 
connected, but a bunch connected to the hub. Same spaghetti. And don’t let me 
get started on these new USB C jacks. It only means that now I have to have a 
collection of USB A/C adapters laying around. And what’s wrong with having 
those jack on the rear edge of the Mac? Oh, well. At least it’s a nice fast 
computer.

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 7:48 AM, CHUCK REICHEL  
wrote:

Hi Dave,
What about a hub.
1 cable to the hub then let that be the cable cluster!
BTW dvd/cd burners are still used every day for some recording clients that 
like them.
So I always have to have a cd burner hooked up for clients needs.
Chuck
"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Dave Carlson wrote:

> How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
> sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
> drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson  > wrote:
> 
> Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
> anymore.
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Simon.
>>  
>> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
> 
> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

That is what I just said.

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 04:33, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:

Yes brad the specs on the pro are better than the specs of the air,
 
However if you don’t need to get a high end processor which really isn’t that 
different to that from the air and also save yourself money then the air is a 
good device,
 
 
 
 
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 6:43 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
 
don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If you 
want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C ports 
and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, you 
should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.

- Brad -

 
On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines mailto:maur...@maurice-amines.com>> wrote:
 
Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.

Sincerely Maurice Mines.





On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though as 
I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.

>
 
Virus-free. www.avast.com 

campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>


<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

No, the Air is a real Mac running the macOS operating system.  It is a great 
option for most Mac users.

- Brad -


On Jun 27, 2020, at 04:31, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Brad.
 
I've never touched one, but is the Air not just a tablet with close together 
keys?
 
Andy.
> - Original Message - 
> From: Brad Snyder 
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 7:42 AM
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
> processor in the Air.
> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If 
> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
> money.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  > wrote:
> 
> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
> to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
> Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
> it. Very best wall.
> 
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries > > 
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though 
>> as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at 
>> $1799.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>>> I can get.
>>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>>> Very best wishes.
>>> Andy.
>>> 
>>> >>  
>>> >
>>>  
>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>> >> 
>>> campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> you can reach Cara 
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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>>> 
>>> 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7 
>>> 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Dave,
What about a hub.
1 cable to the hub then let that be the cable cluster!
BTW dvd/cd burners are still used every day for some recording clients that 
like them.
So I always have to have a cd burner hooked up for clients needs.
Chuck
"God does not play dice with the universe"
"Albert Einstein’


On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Dave Carlson wrote:

> How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
> sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
> drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
> anymore.
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Simon.
>>  
>> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
> 
> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Yeah, but how often do you really need a DVD drive? I bought a portable one 
that I keep in a desk drawer, and only connect it when I need it. About the 
only thing I ever use it for is importing CDs into my iTunes library, which I 
rarely need to do now, as most of my music has already been imported. So that 
DVD drive spends most of its life just sitting there in the drawer. I would 
never have it permanently hooked up to my Mac, that'd just be a waste of a 
perfectly good USB port.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
> sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
> drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson  > wrote:
> 
> Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
> anymore.
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Simon.
>>  
>> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
> 
> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Dave Carlson]

Andrew,
Pretty sure it does. But it was so long ago. Again the David Woodbridge podcast 
helps a lot to understand what needs to be done. What’s really nice is that 
these virtual buttons are context-sensitive and speak their purpose as you 
glide/swipe across them. No more guessing.
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Woodworker, and Pioneer

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:48 AM, 'Andrew' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi Dave.
 
I remember when I purchased my second hand 2013 Macbook Pro, one of the first 
things I got assistance with was changing the buttons along the top to act just 
like Keys.  I know Iprobably will ever need the 5 and the 8, but does this 
change need to be done with the newer swipe bar?  Or does it really not matter?
 
Very best wishes.
 
Andy.
> - Original Message -
> From: Dave Carlson 
> To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> I have the 15-inch MBP with the touchbar. It’s quite easy to master, after 
> listening to the Applevis presentation by David Woodbridge.
> I have marked the f5 and f8  and SIRI positions across the top of the bar to 
> help orient to the more important locations.
> And the Touch ID works very well.
> 
> Dave Carlson
>  Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker
> 
> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Dave Carlson]

How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:

Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne




> On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon.
>  
> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.


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Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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Zoom breakout rooms?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience setting up Zoom breakout rooms? Is that process 
accessible?
Cheers,
Donna


Sent from my iPad

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Re: Books app on mac and braille.

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Anders,

The Books app on the Mac is not very intuitive, but it’s much better in IOS. I 
read books in braille on my phone and my iPad all the time. I would definitely 
recommend giving your iPad a try.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:56 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am tryng to read a book in the books app with braille.
> To be honest its not very intuitive.
> So i was thinking if it would be easier to do this on my Ipad Mini 4 instead?
> What do you all think?
> Thanks.
> /A
> 
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Books app on mac and braille.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I am tryng to read a book in the books app with braille.
To be honest its not very intuitive.
So i was thinking if it would be easier to do this on my Ipad Mini 4 instead?
What do you all think?
Thanks.
/A

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Lol I thought about that. Not saying I’ll buy 1.0, but I know that once the 
Macs with the new architecture are out, I will want one. So, not being 
independently wealthy and thus able to buy a new Mac every year, I’m going to 
wait.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:53 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I understand the attraction of the new platform. Then there's the
> competing concern that says: "Never buy 1.0 of anything." 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Janina
> 
> 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Mine is a late 2013 model MacBook Pro. It just makes the compatibility list 
>> for Mac OS Big Sur, if I’m reading correctly.
>> 
>> There are some situations in which it runs into performance difficulties 
>> (e.g., trying to use Microsoft Outlook for Mac to write email whilst in a 
>> Microsoft Teams meeting). I’m contemplating a hardware upgrade, possibly 
>> next year when Apple’s ARM-based CPUs may become available for the MacBook 
>> Pro.
>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 08:03, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just to throw something else into the mix here, I’d been thinking about 
>>> replacing my 2017 MBP, but have decided to wait till the Macs with the new 
>>> silicon chip are released. Something to think about, unless you really need 
>>> to replace it now.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:42 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
 
 don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes 
 the processor in the Air.
 If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  
 If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
 Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
 ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
 one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
 your money.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  
 wrote:
 
 Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
 now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
 reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
 have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
 would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
 dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m 
 slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.
 
 Sincerely Maurice Mines.
 
 
 
 
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi ET,
> 
> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
> starts at $1799.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>> I can get.
>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> > campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>> 
>> 
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> 
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>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Question regarding the Doc on Mac.

[alia robinson]

I don’t get anything like that, but I set up where command n will open my 
downloads so I never use the doc, not for anything honestly.

On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:52 AM, 'Gary Price' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Yo everyone!
This is Gary here.

Please can anyone tell me if they have noticed something strange recently.
I'm talking to my friend in Australia, he has noticed something strange with 
the Doc on Mac.

When he goes to say Downloads, when he presses Enter a menu comes up on the 
screen, but VoiceOver wont speak anything and the keyboard is totally  
nresponsive.

I know this because he has a little bit of sight.

I've just tried this on my Mac and I can duplicate the exact same thing.

This is since updating to the latest Mac operating system of catalina.
10.155

thanks very much!
I look forward to any responses!
Gary Price
Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.

This address is for personal contact:
garypric...@icloud.com

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

I understand the attraction of the new platform. Then there's the
competing concern that says: "Never buy 1.0 of anything." 

Best,

Janina

'Jason White' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Mine is a late 2013 model MacBook Pro. It just makes the compatibility list 
> for Mac OS Big Sur, if I’m reading correctly.
> 
> There are some situations in which it runs into performance difficulties 
> (e.g., trying to use Microsoft Outlook for Mac to write email whilst in a 
> Microsoft Teams meeting). I’m contemplating a hardware upgrade, possibly next 
> year when Apple’s ARM-based CPUs may become available for the MacBook Pro.
> 
> > On Jun 27, 2020, at 08:03, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Just to throw something else into the mix here, I’d been thinking about 
> > replacing my 2017 MBP, but have decided to wait till the Macs with the new 
> > silicon chip are released. Something to think about, unless you really need 
> > to replace it now.
> > Cheers,
> > Donna
> > 
> > Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:42 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> >> 
> >> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes 
> >> the processor in the Air.
> >> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  
> >> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> >> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> >> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
> >> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
> >> your money.
> >> 
> >> - Brad -
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
> >> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
> >> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
> >> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
> >> would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
> >> dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m 
> >> slowly learning to live with it. Very best wall.
> >> 
> >> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi ET,
> >>> 
> >>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
> >>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
> >>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> >>> 
> >>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
> >>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
> >>> starts at $1799.
> >>> 
> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> >>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >>> Many believe that we have been visited
> >>> in the past. What if it were true?
> >>> 
> >>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>  Hi all.
>  Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>  I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>  I can get.
>  I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>  I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>  Any ideas on which model to look for.
>  Very best wishes.
>  Andy.
>  
>  
>   
>   Virus-free. www.avast.com
>    campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>  
>  
>  <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>  
>  --
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>  Visionaries list.
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>  

Question regarding the Doc on Mac.

['Gary Price' via MacVisionaries]

Yo everyone!
This is Gary here.

Please can anyone tell me if they have noticed something strange recently.
I'm talking to my friend in Australia, he has noticed something strange with 
the Doc on Mac.

When he goes to say Downloads, when he presses Enter a menu comes up on the 
screen, but VoiceOver wont speak anything and the keyboard is totally  
nresponsive.

I know this because he has a little bit of sight.

I've just tried this on my Mac and I can duplicate the exact same thing.

This is since updating to the latest Mac operating system of catalina.
 10.155

thanks very much!
I look forward to any responses!
Gary Price
Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.

This address is for personal contact:
garypric...@icloud.com

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Mine is a late 2013 model MacBook Pro. It just makes the compatibility list for 
Mac OS Big Sur, if I’m reading correctly.

There are some situations in which it runs into performance difficulties (e.g., 
trying to use Microsoft Outlook for Mac to write email whilst in a Microsoft 
Teams meeting). I’m contemplating a hardware upgrade, possibly next year when 
Apple’s ARM-based CPUs may become available for the MacBook Pro.

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 08:03, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just to throw something else into the mix here, I’d been thinking about 
> replacing my 2017 MBP, but have decided to wait till the Macs with the new 
> silicon chip are released. Something to think about, unless you really need 
> to replace it now.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:42 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>> processor in the Air.
>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If 
>> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
>> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
>> money.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
>> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
>> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
>> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be 
>> able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation 
>> software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning 
>> to live with it. Very best wall.
>> 
>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ET,
>>> 
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>> 
>>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
 I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.
 
 
  
Virus-free. www.avast.com
 
 
 
 <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Andy,

The Air is smaller, thinner, and lighter. I strongly prefer the keyboard on my 
Air, and would say there’s more separation than on the keyboard on my Pro. 
(However, that’s a little bit like comparing Apples and Oranges, because my Pro 
unfortunately has the butterfly keyboard.) Any more, when I travel, if all I 
want to do is read email and maybe some light work, I take either my iPad or 
the Air.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:31 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Brad.
>  
> I've never touched one, but is the Air not just a tablet with close together 
> keys?
>  
> Andy.
> - Original Message -
> From: Brad Snyder
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 7:42 AM
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
> processor in the Air.
> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If 
> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
> money.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
>> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
>> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
>> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be 
>> able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation 
>> software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning 
>> to live with it. Very best wall.
>> 
>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though 
>> as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at 
>> $1799.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>>> I can get.
>>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>>> Very best wishes.
>>> Andy.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>> >> campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>>> 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7 
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>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I would add that I also use an MBP with a touch bar. I’ve gotten used to it, 
but I’m not really a fan. I love how it’s contextualized, but I almost always 
have to tap it three or four times to get it to activate. Overall, I would say 
using the touch bar is slower than using function keys. I’m seriously 
considering going back to the Air just to get function keys back.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:37 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi July.
> 
> I hate my Phone.  I've had three of them now and simply haven't spent enough 
> time learning about the command swipes, so I just use my phone for emergency 
> cover when in town.  Bit of a waste eh?  I like my 2013 Macbook pro as it has 
> a reasonable keyboard with no swip bar and I can use a full size apple 
> keyboard.  So I'm not sure at all about the Air.
> 
> Very best wishes.
> 
> Andy.
> - Original Message - From: "Julie Rattray" 
> To: "'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries" 
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:05 AM
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> 
>> Yes I use a Mac with a Touch Bar and really like it it does help with 
>> certain tasks and if you are used to using the iPhone etc getting used to it 
>> is not really to difficult.
>> 
 On 27 Jun 2020, at 04:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ET,
>>> 
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>> 
>>>   I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
 I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.
 
 
 Virus-free. www.avast.com
 
 
 
 <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
 
 --
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 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
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 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7
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>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>>> 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Just to throw something else into the mix here, I’d been thinking about 
replacing my 2017 MBP, but have decided to wait till the Macs with the new 
silicon chip are released. Something to think about, unless you really need to 
replace it now.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:42 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
> processor in the Air.
> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If 
> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
> money.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:
> 
> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
> to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
> Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
> it. Very best wall.
> 
> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>> 
>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though 
>> as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at 
>> $1799.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>>> I can get.
>>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>>> Very best wishes.
>>> Andy.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>> >> campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7 
>>> .
>> 
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>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi ET,

Like Janina, I kept my 2013 Macbook Air when I bought my 2017 MBP. Though the 
Pro is by far the better computer, I still prefer my Air. I like the keyboard 
better, and, though I’ve gotten used to the touch bar, I still prefer having 
function keys.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:55 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    Hmm, the Air is $300 cheaper than the Pro with no Touch Bar, And you say 
> no butterfly keyboard? Might be worth a look if I can get to the Apple store. 
> The specs are almost the same too.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/26/2020 8:41 PM, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
>> Andy,
>> Why do you need a pro?
>> I have been playing around with the 2020 mac book air recently and I really 
>> liked it.
>> It has the finger print sensor but no touch bar,
>> 2 USB_C ports on the left hand edge,
>> And the new keyboard replacement to the butterfly keyboard.
>> Otherwise a great little device.
>> Personally I can’t see what the average person would need the pro for now 
>> days.
>> *From:*'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:38 AM
>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* whitch Macbook pro
>> Hi all.
>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as I can 
>> get.
>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>> 
>>
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>> 
>>  -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
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>>  
>> .
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> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['andrew' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave.

I remember when I purchased my second hand 2013 Macbook Pro, one of the first 
things I got assistance with was changing the buttons along the top to act just 
like Keys.  I know Iprobably will ever need the 5 and the 8, but does this 
change need to be done with the newer swipe bar?  Or does it really not matter?

Very best wishes.

Andy.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Carlson 
  To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:45 AM
  Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro


  I have the 15-inch MBP with the touchbar. It’s quite easy to master, after 
listening to the Applevis presentation by David Woodbridge.
  I have marked the f5 and f8  and SIRI positions across the top of the bar to 
help orient to the more important locations.
  And the Touch ID works very well.


  Dave Carlson

   Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker



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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Anne Robertson]

Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne




> On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon.
>  
> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Dave Carlson]

Good to hear about that butterfly keyboard. Not happy with it. Maybe a good 
reason to upgrade to the latest MBP...
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Woodworker, and Pioneer

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Dave Carlson]

I have the 15-inch MBP with the touchbar. It’s quite easy to master, after 
listening to the Applevis presentation by David Woodbridge.
I have marked the f5 and f8  and SIRI positions across the top of the bar to 
help orient to the more important locations.
And the Touch ID works very well.

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

FYI: Apple offered me $160 for my 2013 era 11' Air when I bought my Mac
Mini a couple months ago. I declined and kept the Air.

At the moment it's a handy sized laptop I sometimes use in bed, when I'm
too lazy to head down the hall. Hey, I can cast from it, so why not?

Where I to get serious and start using it for more than email and web
browsing, I'd want it for loading my Native Instruments (Komplete
Kontrol) sound fonts over the USB3 port.

Now, I'd expect the gating factor here is the speed provided by the
port, not the CPU. Though having more than 8Gb RAM would probably be
important. In fact it would probably help this use case to have as much
RAM as possible so that the sound fonts could perhaps be accessed from
RAM in actual use with an app like Mainstage.

Best,

Janina

'andrew' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hi Simon.
> 
> I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.
> 
> My 2013 Macbook Pro has a decent keyboard as the keys are quite distinctive.
> 
> I use an external full size keyboard because it has a full numeric keypad and 
> it has about 3 USB'S.  It's very sturdy and feels so nice and smoove.
> 
> I was only thinking of jumping up to something a little fresher and of 
> course, I'll still get a couple of hundred for my old one.
> 
> Very best wishes.
> 
> P.S Simon.  We are all very impressed with NZ over here for it's response to 
> the virus. 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Simon A Fogarty 
>   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 4:41 AM
>   Subject: RE: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> 
>   Andy,
> 
>
> 
>   Why do you need a pro?
> 
>
> 
>   I have been playing around with the 2020 mac book air recently and I really 
> liked it.
> 
>
> 
>   It has the finger print sensor but no touch bar,
> 
>   2 USB_C ports on the left hand edge,
> 
>   And the new keyboard replacement to the butterfly keyboard.
> 
>
> 
>   Otherwise a great little device.
> 
>   Personally I can’t see what the average person would need the pro for now 
> days.
> 
>
> 
>   From: 'andrew' via MacVisionaries  
>   Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:38 AM
>   To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>   Subject: whitch Macbook pro
> 
>
> 
>   Hi all.
> 
>
> 
>   Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> 
>
> 
>   I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as I can 
> get.
> 
>
> 
>   I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> 
>
> 
>   I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> 
>
> 
>   Any ideas on which model to look for.
> 
>
> 
>   Very best wishes.
> 
>
> 
>   Andy.
> 
>
> 
> 
>Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>
> 
>   -- 
>   The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>   Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
>   The archives for this list can be searched at:
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>   Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
>   The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
> 
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> The following 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['andrew' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.

My 2013 Macbook Pro has a decent keyboard as the keys are quite distinctive.

I use an external full size keyboard because it has a full numeric keypad and 
it has about 3 USB'S.  It's very sturdy and feels so nice and smoove.

I was only thinking of jumping up to something a little fresher and of course, 
I'll still get a couple of hundred for my old one.

Very best wishes.

P.S Simon.  We are all very impressed with NZ over here for it's response to 
the virus. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Simon A Fogarty 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 4:41 AM
  Subject: RE: whitch Macbook pro


  Andy,

   

  Why do you need a pro?

   

  I have been playing around with the 2020 mac book air recently and I really 
liked it.

   

  It has the finger print sensor but no touch bar,

  2 USB_C ports on the left hand edge,

  And the new keyboard replacement to the butterfly keyboard.

   

  Otherwise a great little device.

  Personally I can’t see what the average person would need the pro for now 
days.

   

  From: 'andrew' via MacVisionaries  
  Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:38 AM
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Subject: whitch Macbook pro

   

  Hi all.

   

  Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.

   

  I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as I can 
get.

   

  I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.

   

  I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.

   

  Any ideas on which model to look for.

   

  Very best wishes.

   

  Andy.

   


   Virus-free. www.avast.com 
   

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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

No,
It’s a full notebook but with a lower rated processor than the pro,
Smaller body size such as thinner / lighter.

And less USb ports.
Other than that they do very much the same thing as each other.

Oh and the pros have the touch bar which the air doesn’t have.

From: 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 9:31 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Hi Brad.

I've never touched one, but is the Air not just a tablet with close together 
keys?

Andy.
- Original Message -
From: Brad Snyder
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If you 
want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C ports 
and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, you 
should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.

- Brad -

On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines 
mailto:maur...@maurice-amines.com>> wrote:

Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.

Sincerely Maurice Mines.





On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though as 
I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

['andrew' via MacVisionaries]

Hi July.

I hate my Phone.  I've had three of them now and simply haven't spent enough 
time learning about the command swipes, so I just use my phone for emergency 
cover when in town.  Bit of a waste eh?  I like my 2013 Macbook pro as it 
has a reasonable keyboard with no swip bar and I can use a full size apple 
keyboard.  So I'm not sure at all about the Air.


Very best wishes.

Andy.
- Original Message - 
From: "Julie Rattray" 

To: "'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro


Yes I use a Mac with a Touch Bar and really like it it does help with 
certain tasks and if you are used to using the iPhone etc getting used to 
it is not really to difficult.



On 27 Jun 2020, at 04:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,




-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

   I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
starts at $1799.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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To view this 

RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Yes brad the specs on the pro are better than the specs of the air,

However if you don’t need to get a high end processor which really isn’t that 
different to that from the air and also save yourself money then the air is a 
good device,




From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 6:43 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If you 
want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C ports 
and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, you 
should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.

- Brad -

On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines 
mailto:maur...@maurice-amines.com>> wrote:

Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.

Sincerely Maurice Mines.





On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though as 
I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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To 

Re: whitch Macbook pro

['andrew' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Brad.

I've never touched one, but is the Air not just a tablet with close together 
keys?

Andy.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brad Snyder 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 7:42 AM
  Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro


  don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.

  If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If 
you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
  Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.

  - Brad -




  On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:


  Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.

  Sincerely Maurice Mines.





On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts 
at $1799.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

  Hi all.
  Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
  I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
  I can get.
  I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
  I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
  Any ideas on which model to look for.
  Very best wishes.
  Andy.

  

 
  Virus-free. www.avast.com
  


  <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Yeah the butterfly keyboard has gone!

They have redesigned the keyboard again and it's much nicer I think to type on 
than the butterfly KB was.
I did like the new air,
And with a quad core processor and up to 16GB ram you can get a nice machine 
The T1 chip caused me some trouble though as it takes away some of the security 
features.


-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 4:55 PM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Hmm, the Air is $300 cheaper than the Pro with no Touch Bar, And you say no 
butterfly keyboard? Might be worth a look if I can get to the Apple store. The 
specs are almost the same too.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 8:41 PM, Simon A Fogarty wrote:
> Andy,
> 
> Why do you need a pro?
> 
> I have been playing around with the 2020 mac book air recently and I 
> really liked it.
> 
> It has the finger print sensor but no touch bar,
> 
> 2 USB_C ports on the left hand edge,
> 
> And the new keyboard replacement to the butterfly keyboard.
> 
> Otherwise a great little device.
> 
> Personally I can’t see what the average person would need the pro for 
> now days.
> 
> *From:*'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
> *Sent:* Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:38 AM
> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* whitch Macbook pro
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> 
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
> I can get.
> 
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> 
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> 
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> 
> Very best wishes.
> 
> Andy.
> 
>  campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> 
>   
> 
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
>  campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
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> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn
> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
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> ---
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> 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7 
> .
> 
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> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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> 141F358C42D88A900%40SYCPR01MB4048.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
processor in the Air.
If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If you 
want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C ports 
and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, you 
should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your money.

- Brad -


On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:

Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why it 
is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be able 
to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation software. 
Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning to live with 
it. Very best wall.

Sincerely Maurice Mines.




> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi ET,
> 
> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
> pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though 
> as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at 
> $1799.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
>> I can get.
>> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>> Very best wishes.
>> Andy.
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> > campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>> 
>> 
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/000601d64c0a%24708d71
>> 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7 
>> .
> 
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> 
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