Re: VIRGIL: bullet-proof fix

Since I didn't receive the original spam I'm not sure whether it merited more than instant deletion like the anatomical extension and pump-and-dump share offers one expects to get; but if it is really a problem, by all means let us go to Google Groups. Leofranc Holford-Strevens In message

VIRGIL: Garland and bough: PS

from, either Meleager or Vergil; but in so literary a culture as the Byzantine that suggests that Theodore knew no more of a golden-bough tradition than poor Cornutus, who alas did not know about the clipping of the deceased's hair either. Leofranc Holford-Strevens ' Meleager (whom

Re: VIRGIL: Garland and bough

, to draw on two or more sources and make something of his own. Leofranc Holford-Strevens In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rosemary Grayston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Finding a literary origin for the Golden Bough has been very difficult, as is generally acknowledged.  Servius, as I remember, says

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil passages for comparison

the standpoint of early printed editions: G 1.321, 336, 2.126-30, 168, 449-51, 523, etc. Is that what you meant? Leofranc -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone

Re: VIRGIL: boiling the must

. and considers a possible echo from the _Erga_ of Menecrates of Ephesus. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford

Re: *** SPAM *** Re: VIRGIL: Nefarious conjugals with fortunate race

at every turn. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ

Re: *** SPAM *** Re: VIRGIL: Nefarious conjugals with fortunate race

As a matter of interest, how came *** SPAM *** into the header? Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire

Re: VIRGIL: Nefarious conjugals with fortunate race

wife and thrown in his lot with her; had committed the crime, in fact, from which Aeneas had drawn back. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Ancient Geography

did indeed stand for the frozen North in the classical imaginary (think of the Riphaean mountains) because it was cooler than Greece or Italy; after all, the Straits of Kerch had frozen over in the lifetime of Vergil's father. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Loeb for student text?

. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865

Re: VIRGIL: seduction by Aeneid

prior to or during sex). Well, (near)-strangling is attested as an erotic practice, not least for its effect on the male member... Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Aeneas' Character

to wish. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44

Re: VIRGIL: Dis = dis 'wealthy'?

accept it; and I don't know of an alternative. 2. How old is it? At least as old as Cicero (De natura deorum 2. 66), though Quintilian (1. 6. 34) took it to operate by contraries (quia minime dives). Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Comparetti's Virgilio nel Medioevo available online

influence in Italian Renaissance Art. I would be happy to post the abstract to the list, if that would be appropriate. Excellent topic. Please do. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's knowledge of the underworld (Dante)

-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home

Re: VIRGIL: The Importance of Creusa

importance as an individual human being, rather than a fulfilleress of function (gender-suffix deliberate, as indicating a role women are liable to be assigned); the one was, and the other will be, a Good Wife. Contrast Dido. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

VIRGIL: Re: VIRGIL: conceptions of time (was ein Weihnachtsgruß)

of virtue--do you, hypocrite lecteur, mon semblable, mon frère? Leofranc Holford-Strevens --- Dr. David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org david@virgil.org English Department Virgil reception, discussion, documents, c

Re: VIRGIL: Mantovano

my day began, Wielder of the stateliest measure ever moulded by the lips of man. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford

Re: VIRGIL: Remember me?

happy] to remember her (4. 335). Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil in translation

with the sleepless Medea) Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2

Re: VIRGIL: the anchises, aeneas group

See too Jane Davidson Reid with Chris Rohmann, _The Oxford Guide to Classical Mythology in the Arts, 1300-1990s_, 2 vols. (New York and Oxford), 1993, vol. i, pp. 43-5, covering all the arts. Leofranc Holford-Strevens In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Johan Hanselaer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Re: VIRGIL: Rome founded by Trojan women?

tenures'. It is clearly incompatible with the Tabula Iliaca, if in despite of Horsfall we allow that to illustrate Steschorus' Iliou Persis. Leofranc Holford-Strevens -- *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Rome founded by Trojan women?

was said not to be available. Is this said to be a new fragment, or have I forgotten something? Leofranc Holford-Strevens (Don't forget to join the two bits of the link together) One wonders if Virgil was aware of this alternative version of the founding of Rome. Patrick Roper

Re: VIRGIL: Ugly reeds?

deformis designates a universal quality of reeds or a particular quality of *these* reeds, the reeds growing by the River of Lamentation, ugly and misshapen to match the black mud and stagnant water of the unlovely mere. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: What others say about Virgil

hope of Rome, as if he himself were the first hope of the Latin language and Virgil the second. Where does Donatus say that? and what time had Cicero to read even a single eclogue before being murdered? Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Kaster volume?

of the Aeneid in the ninth century, New York, 1990. I assume that this is his Harvard dissertation published -, but I have never seen a reference to it before. Has anyone seen it? Does anyone know the publisher Garland; ISBN 0824033051 Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Early Vergil printings and another request

. Farenga and A. Modigliani (ed.), _Scrittura biblioteche e stampa a Roma nel Quattrocento: Atti del 2o seminario 6-8 maggio 1982_ (Vatican Cit: Scuola Vaticana di Paleografia, Diplomatica e Archivistica, 1983), 653-68. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: naming conventions

Parthenias (and Milton, the Maid of Christ's). So too the sweetest maid in Rome became Virginia instead of Verginia. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?

that the wink theory could somehow be made to stand up, why should Vergil wish to play that game?) Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford

Re: VIRGIL: Barbarico auro

', and more recently 'Iron Lady', a badge of honour proffered to a grateful Mrs Thatcher by some dunderhead on TASS). Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Helen's robe

Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/353865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) [EMAIL

Re: VIRGIL: Helen's robe

century reader would be well enough versed in the Aeneid to enjoy his quotation. Certainly yes, and certainly rightly. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: trojan horse story

but with a rather good episode in book 10 when the wounded Paris begs Oenone to heal him; she gives him the brush- off ('Get out of my house and go to Helen'), then decides too late that she does still love him after all and throws herself on his funeral pyre. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Annius of Viterbo

of document? No, he made them up. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's Influence on Rural Art In the Roman Era

Rohmann (New York, 1993). It covers all the arts, and is arranged by mythological subject. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford

Re: VIRGIL: 5-word hexameters

email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's

Re: VIRGIL: Anthrax

country do better, or is the very attempt as fatuous as asking how many children had Lady Macbeth? Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone

Re: VIRGIL: why Virgil wanted to burn his poem

. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865

Re: VIRGIL: question

litora tantum numquam Dardaniae tetigissent nostra carinae. This is Book 4, I think... Oops! Lapsus digiti. LAH-S *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford

Re: VIRGIL: Turnus ~ Mark Antony?

. Leofranc Holford-Strevens In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bob Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Another possible angle could be the destruction of alternative routes which Rome could take. Just as the different aspects of Dido are refracted and split into Amata and Lavinia, so that the former can

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's mistakes

; there is also a well-known study of them by John Sparrow. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est

Re: VIRGIL: Dido's lament

. Marlowe seems likelier than Tate/Purcell at that date. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's mistakes

say that because they make so fine an ending for their sentence, the poet could not at once see how to continue. By Seneca's time people were filling in the gaps. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St

Re: VIRGIL: Re: VIRGIL

; but if it holds for Justinian against Valla, it holds for Ser. Sulpcius against Gellius (see _Noctes Atticae_ 7. 12, which to Valla and Alciatus was 6. 12)'. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's tomb; archaeology

*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) [EMAIL

Re: VIRGIL: Double Firsts

incoherent. *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home

Re: VIRGIL: RE: Vergilian seances

*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax

Re: VIRGIL: The Devil Knows Latin: A Further Word

what America needs, but I do wonder why people on the list are so dogmatic about criticizing ancient values from the standard of modern liberalism (never vice versa) without even wondering what right they have to be judge in their own cause. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Bucolic 2: umbrosa cacumina

), and therefore receive shadows too. We ought not to be too rigorously logical in these matters. Yours, Neven *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford

Re: VIRGIL: Another Virgilius Maro?

on the vocative of egregius. *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865

Re: VIRGIL: Aeneas' treason?

), and wishes she had remembered it at the right time. There is of course no reason to take her view of the matter; but it was a very well established story, mentioned more than once by Servius. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc

VIRGIL: Apologies

Dear colleagues, Many apologies for posting a private message to the list; I have already apologized to the intended recipient. My only excuse is that it was 1 a.m. in England. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford

Re: VIRGIL: teaching Latin verse in grammar schools

of any scholars who might be able to help me? - Robin Sowerby In the Middle Ages there was the Doctrinale of Alexander de Villa Nova; from the seventeenth century onwards the Gradus ad Parnassum. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: translations

, but not Euripides. Leofranc H.-S. *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865

Re: VIRGIL: translations

if he had. Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home

Re: VIRGIL: re: Why A Horse?

*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home

Re: VIRGIL: paid for propaganda?

discredited oligarchy for two generations. But he was not concerned with redesigning what he understood to be reality, but with finding out what it was. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Re: Cornix, Georgics and Alliteration

the very existence of any _Tonmalerei_ in all poetry. I cannot think even of weak ones: at best one may doubt a particular instance, but poetry is written neither for nor by cloth-eared logicians. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: paid for propaganda?

usually spend most of their capacity for dislike or dissent on each other, only turning against the ruler when he fails to take them at their own valuation? Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's

Re: VIRGIL: paid for propaganda?

. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865

Re: VIRGIL: Sabine Women

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], john dwyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Can anyone furnish me with name of an artist who has portrayed the Rape of the Sabine Women (viii 822ff)? The first who comes to mind is David (Les Sabines, 1799, in the Louvre). Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Aeneid Jokes

? Inadvertence? Or was _O fortunatam_ not yet the stock example of bad verse it had become by Silver times? Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

VIRGIL: Aeneid Jokes

, if 'facetum' is to be translated 'witty', let it be in the eighteenth-century sense rather than the twentieth. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: VERGIL: ekphrasis in Book VI

. Quite inadequate, but perhaps it will stimulate someone else, like the crystal that seeds a supersaturated solution into precipitating. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: source of quotation please

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I can't find it as yet, but Amores i.3.18 is rather similar, so it's probably Ovid, but I'm pretty sure it's not Amores Neither have I found it yet, but what classical author writes 'sicque'? Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: Juno's supplication

after his rebuff by Agamemnon, _Iliad_ 1. 36-42, which likewise sets in motion the action of the epic, and does contain the reference to past service. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Re: Appendix

AD, some second. The 'back to Catullus' feel about it might support the retro-chic of the second. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone

Re: VIRGIL: Re: Appendix

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Leofranc Holford- Strevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Geyssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes While we're on the topic--Is there anything close to an accepted date for the Culex or Ciris? Culex: first century AD, before Lucan, if you

VIRGIL: Aen. IX 371

of the fighting; the only bit that convinces me is the Doloneia, notoriously an addition to the story and composed by one who was not quite master of the formulaic language, but who (I think) knew whereof he spoke. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: B.6,62-3: bitter bark

. Clausen, Williams. and Coleman see no difficulty, perhaps for the same reason that Nelson saw no signal. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: B.6,62-3: bitter bark

seems somewhat clumsy, not substantial enough. Isn't the point that the bark exudes the musk, i.e. the amber? (Cf. Ovid,_Met._ 2. 344-66 for a fuller account.) Leofranc *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: de rosis nascentibus

olim perperam attributa Appendici appendiculae loco subiungere placuit. Leofranc *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est

Re: VIRGIL: furor

Holford-Strevens --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also

Re: VIRGIL: beyond the limits of nature?

?') of Homer. -- Leofranc Holford-Strevens --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You

Re: VIRGIL: Seeking translation---one sentence.

where it occurs, and provide the Latin? Thanks! Possunt quia posse videntur: _Aeneid_ 5. 231, from the boatrace episode. -- Leofranc Holford-Strevens --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send

Re: VIRGIL: Lost poem

and lines from Vergil. None of these are particularly humorous, however, Apart from Ausonius' _cento nuptialis_... -- Leofranc Holford-Strevens --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send

Re: VIRGIL: deaths in the Aeneid

inmortales_, but individual Homeric deities with their own agendas. (The contrast is grossly oversimplified, but I think there is something in it.) Leofranc Holford-Strevens *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road

Re: VIRGIL: Virgil's religion or lack of

(as commentators on Silenus' song and Anchises' speech have long since recognized). After all, Milton adopted the Ptolemaic cosmogony for _Paradise Lost_, even though in civilian life he knew it had been superseded, and even though it was being upheld by the hated Papacy. Leofranc Holford-Strevens

Re: VIRGIL: wirgil and augustus/result of aeneid

. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865

Re: VIRGIL: alternatives to Galinsky, Augustan Culture

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work

Re: VIRGIL: Silver Age

politically but had a distinctly Romantic view of the ancient Greeks, namely Karl Marx. L.A.H.-S. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone Oxford scire

Re: Thebaid (was: VIRGIL: Mystery)

of Romantic _Deutschhellenentum_, firm in the conviction that the Greeks had been the perfection of the ancient world, and were now spiritually reborn as Germans. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St

Re: Thebaid (was: VIRGIL: Mystery)

by Kathyleen Coleman at Trinity College Dublin last March. It has taken Statius longer than say Lucan to emerge from Victorian disapproval of Silver literature, but he seems to have done now. LAH-S *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St

Re: VIRGIL: nemo Hercule, nemo

there are more examples There are two in the comic fragments (117 and 129 Ribbeck). *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est

Re: VIRGIL: nemo Hercule, nemo

'. It is Additional MS 21520, folio 19; the MS is a collection of autographs, including a Michelangelo drawing.) Leofranc Holford-Strevens *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone

Re: VIRGIL: spelling: Virgil or Vergil?

-academics, among classicists than non-classicists, and among younger than older writers; these and any other categories might be tested, insofar as they are not thought to intrude on privacy *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St

Re: VIRGIL: Augustus and Vergil

'. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/267865(work) fax

Re: VIRGIL: Siro's Epicurean Garden

of his own. Leofranc Holford-Strevens *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Roadusque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel