Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
> Jim wrote: > > I prefer to use my pressure bleeder for just this reason if > > possible. > > The beautiful part about using the brakes is that you never > under/over-fill the brake reservoir. . > Fast, cheap, and easy. It is pretty clever. I have always used a pump to put fluid in at the slave. It will work ONLY if the clutch master cylinder is ALL the way to the top. A push rod of the wrong length (TRW) may prevent it and then it won't bleed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
Jim Cathey via Mercedes writes: > Nothing is bubbling up by itself. You are _pumping_ the brakes, which > is pumping fluid down from the reservoir, through the brake cylinders, > and back up (to the reservoir) by way of the clutch cylinders. Any > air bubbles (to the top) of the reservoir, but _only_ as it circulates > there by pumping action. Basically gravity is tapping off the air in > the circuit, at the reservoir, leaving only liquid to circulate around > again. Ah, that makes sense. Somehow I was imagining pressure on all the hard lines but of course pumping the brakes is not going to pressurize the clutch circuit. I think I'd still rather use a pressure bleeder. I've ruined more than one master cylinder trying to bleed brakes, and it always seems to take a few attempts to get *all* the air out. With a pressure bleeder it's all done in a couple of minutes and you don't need an assistant. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
It should, however, you are trying to push the air down, and it want's to go up. If you use the brake bleeder method, the air is moving the way it's naturally wants to go. You have a better chance of success the first time, UNLESS you push the brake pedal too far and tear up the cups in the master cylinder. TANSTAAFL. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:38 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > It just seems to me like with pressure applied to the brake reservoir I > could crack open the bleed screw on the slave cylinder and it would > bleed the air out just like it would with a brake caliper. > > On 5/14/2020 8:28 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: > > Same. I would never bleed brakes the old "pump the pedal" way if I had > > the option to use a pressure bleeder. Just makes it so easy and > > foolproof. Unfortunately the reservoir caps are not standard and my > > pressure bleeder has only been usable on my MB and VW cars. Maybe they > > are standard in Germany. > > > > Allan > > > > > > Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes writes: > > > >> I prefer to use my pressure bleeder for just this reason if possible. > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
It just seems to me like with pressure applied to the brake reservoir I could crack open the bleed screw on the slave cylinder and it would bleed the air out just like it would with a brake caliper. On 5/14/2020 8:28 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: Same. I would never bleed brakes the old "pump the pedal" way if I had the option to use a pressure bleeder. Just makes it so easy and foolproof. Unfortunately the reservoir caps are not standard and my pressure bleeder has only been usable on my MB and VW cars. Maybe they are standard in Germany. Allan Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes writes: I prefer to use my pressure bleeder for just this reason if possible. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
> I prefer to use my pressure bleeder for just this reason if possible. The beautiful part about using the brakes is that you never under/over-fill the brake reservoir. All the fluid just circulates, and the level only goes down by the amount of air that ultimately gets displaced. Which is unlikely to be enough to cause problems. And even if it is, you just add more fluid and repeat until you have achieved success. > Still having trouble visualizing how this works. If I have air in my > brake lines, I have to bleed it out through the bleed valves at the > wheels. It does not migrate up and out through reservoir by itself. Even > with a fluid loop through the clutch cylinder, I don't see how that > changes. Nothing is bubbling up by itself. You are _pumping_ the brakes, which is pumping fluid down from the reservoir, through the brake cylinders, and back up (to the reservoir) by way of the clutch cylinders. Any air bubbles (to the top) of the reservoir, but _only_ as it circulates there by pumping action. Basically gravity is tapping off the air in the circuit, at the reservoir, leaving only liquid to circulate around again. Fast, cheap, and easy. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
Same. I would never bleed brakes the old "pump the pedal" way if I had the option to use a pressure bleeder. Just makes it so easy and foolproof. Unfortunately the reservoir caps are not standard and my pressure bleeder has only been usable on my MB and VW cars. Maybe they are standard in Germany. Allan Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes writes: > I prefer to use my pressure bleeder for just this reason if possible. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
I prefer to use my pressure bleeder for just this reason if possible. On 5/14/2020 7:01 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: Pump carefully and don’t push the pedal all the way to the floor. That way you don’t risk tearing up the cups in the master cylinder. -D On May 14, 2020, at 7:42 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: I think I remember that as well, now that you mention it. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:32 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: IIRC, the official shop procedure is to connect a hose between the clutch bleeder on the slave cylinder and one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. Then you just pump the brakes until all the air is out, then close both bleed screws. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
Craig via Mercedes writes: >> Where does the air go? Does it bubble back up to the reservoir? > > Yes, it has to. Still having trouble visualizing how this works. If I have air in my brake lines, I have to bleed it out through the bleed valves at the wheels. It does not migrate up and out through reservoir by itself. Even with a fluid loop through the clutch cylinder, I don't see how that changes. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
On Thu, 14 May 2020 20:13:00 -0400 Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: > Jim Cathey via Mercedes writes: > > > one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. > > Is there more than one? There are two: One on the left front brake and one on the right front brake. > > Then you just pump the brakes until all the air is out, then close > > both bleed screws. > > Where does the air go? Does it bubble back up to the reservoir? Yes, it has to. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
>> one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. > Is there more than one? Two wheels, two bleed screws. Nearly equidistant, but I'd probably pick the one on the brake booster side. The total length of piping would be less. > Where does the air go? Does it bubble back up to the reservoir? Yup. It's a closed system since both clutch and brakes feed from the brake fluid reservoir. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
Jim Cathey via Mercedes writes: > one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. Is there more than one? > Then you just pump the brakes until all the air is out, then close > both bleed screws. Where does the air go? Does it bubble back up to the reservoir? Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
Pump carefully and don’t push the pedal all the way to the floor. That way you don’t risk tearing up the cups in the master cylinder. -D > On May 14, 2020, at 7:42 PM, OK Don via Mercedes > wrote: > > I think I remember that as well, now that you mention it. > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:32 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> IIRC, the official shop procedure is to connect a hose between the clutch >> bleeder on >> the slave cylinder and one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. Then >> you just pump >> the brakes until all the air is out, then close both bleed screws. >> >> -- Jim >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
I think I remember that as well, now that you mention it. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:32 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > IIRC, the official shop procedure is to connect a hose between the clutch > bleeder on > the slave cylinder and one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. Then > you just pump > the brakes until all the air is out, then close both bleed screws. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
IIRC, the official shop procedure is to connect a hose between the clutch bleeder on the slave cylinder and one of the bleed screws on the front brakes. Then you just pump the brakes until all the air is out, then close both bleed screws. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 123 clutch
I found it better to connect to the bleeder valve on the slave cyl, and pump fluid up to the master cyl, but don't remember if I did that on the W123 clutch or not. I'm pretty sure that we did with the W201 clutch. Access can be a problem. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I pulled this 81 240D I acquired into the shop to get it going. > Currently clutch is dead and just goes to the floor. I assume I want to > first try seeing if the slave cylinder is leaking, then maybe try > bleeding it? Followed by replacement. So the question is I have never > worked on a clutch before. How do I bleed it? Do I hook up my pressure > bleeder to the brake fluid reservoir then simply open the bleeder on the > slave cylinder? > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 123 clutch
I pulled this 81 240D I acquired into the shop to get it going. Currently clutch is dead and just goes to the floor. I assume I want to first try seeing if the slave cylinder is leaking, then maybe try bleeding it? Followed by replacement. So the question is I have never worked on a clutch before. How do I bleed it? Do I hook up my pressure bleeder to the brake fluid reservoir then simply open the bleeder on the slave cylinder? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
