Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 My first VW was a '98 Jetta (A3) and is one of my favorite cars ever. A bit 
rattly and unrefined but really fun to drive. With the TDI engine it made 
around 50mpg pretty much the whole time I owned it.The majority of the problems 
I had with the car were rust and age related. It finally got to the point that 
it wasn't worth fixing anymore.
I know what you mean about being like a Japanese car though I think the TDI 
engine and 6spd manual move my 2015 back to "driving excitement"...
-Curt

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 2:27:00 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I had a Jetta once, a 1991 model year (A2) purchased new (I was young
and my dad always bought his cars new, so I just thought that was the
right way to do it). I paid between $12K and $13K for it IIRC. 5-speed
manual, 1.8l NA 8v engine. This was a non-interference engine which was
important given the reputation VWs had for timing belts failing at the
replacement interval + 1 mile.

Shifted like butter, and had that solid german feel and handling unlike
modern VWs that are indistinguishable from Japanese cars.

Loved the car until it was about 10 years old, then everything started
falling apart. I'm sure 8 years of Northern IL winters didn't help.

Also owned a '91 Vanagon for a few years until it was totaled in a
wreck. I do miss that van. I was contemplating a Subaru engine
transplant or the Bostig Ford Zetec kit. I'd seriously consider another
one but nice examples are very rare around here.

Local VW dealer currently has a very nicely restored Type 2 sitting on
the lot as eye candy for passers-by. Asking $60K for it.

Allan


Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  I HATE DSG transmissions. I hate how they sound, I hate how they jerk in a 
>parking lot. I hate the feeling during shifts and they're fragile. Nothing to 
>like about those.
> The 6spd manual in my Jetta is a fantastic transmission, it shifts smoothly 
> and its geared nicely to live with. Sure its not a Mercedes but in 2015 you 
> could have my car for around $20,000. Very affordable compared to a Mercedes. 
> Its 80% as good (maybe more, 50mpg remember) for half the money.
> -Curt
>
>    On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 11:10:10 AM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:  
>  
>  Not quite accurate - our Passat TDI was one of the cheating cars and needed
> BlueTec fluid. The only things I didn't like about that car were the
> maintenance costs for the dual clutch tranny, the seats were not as
> comfortable as the W124, and the wind noise was higher than an old W124 at
> 70mph.
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
>> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>>
>> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
>> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
>> to meet the test.
>>
>> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>>
>> The law is quite specific about this.
>>
>> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
>> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
>> so egregious.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I wonder if theres a big difference between diesel and gas engines too. The 
ones I've driven were all gasser rentals...
-Curt

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 2:36:56 PM EDT, Kevin Kraly via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 There was a HUUUGE difference in the DSG transmission in the 2014 Beetle 
TDI and the nearly identical new 2015. The 2014 was quite jerky starting out 
like a novice driving a manual, and the 2015 was nearly as smooth as a 
conventional automatic transmission. The shifts were quick and crisp.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>  I HATE DSG transmissions. I hate how they sound, I hate how they jerk in a 
> parking lot. I hate the feeling during shifts and they're fragile. Nothing to 
> like about those.
> The 6spd manual in my Jetta is a fantastic transmission, it shifts smoothly 
> and its geared nicely to live with. Sure its not a Mercedes but in 2015 you 
> could have my car for around $20,000. Very affordable compared to a Mercedes. 
> Its 80% as good (maybe more, 50mpg remember) for half the money.
> -Curt
> 
>    On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 11:10:10 AM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:  
> 
> Not quite accurate - our Passat TDI was one of the cheating cars and needed
> BlueTec fluid. The only things I didn't like about that car were the
> maintenance costs for the dual clutch tranny, the seats were not as
> comfortable as the W124, and the wind noise was higher than an old W124 at
> 70mph.
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
>> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>> 
>> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
>> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
>> to meet the test.
>> 
>> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>> 
>> The law is quite specific about this.
>> 
>> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
>> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
>> so egregious.
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I also have towing on my insurance policy.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:39 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> In my experience, batteries are fine, until suddenly they are not.
>
> They can overnight go from starting fine to not having enough juice to
> even turn the engine.
>
> If your battery is seven years old I'd advise replacing it, or at least
> carrying a set of jumper cables in your car (few people do these days,
> so it's often hard to find someone who can give you a jump if you don't
> have cables handy).
>
> Allan
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > If you still want the best diesel I recommend the 250 GLK BlueTEC
> > which was made from 2013 through 2015. Mine still has the original
> > seven-year-old varta battery which is strong and does not need
> > replacement despite being drained twice in the last month. My most
> > recent fuel economy was nearly 36 mpg, which included off Highway
> > local road travel as well as highway speed.
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

In my experience, batteries are fine, until suddenly they are not.

They can overnight go from starting fine to not having enough juice to
even turn the engine.

If your battery is seven years old I'd advise replacing it, or at least
carrying a set of jumper cables in your car (few people do these days,
so it's often hard to find someone who can give you a jump if you don't
have cables handy).

Allan

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  writes:

> If you still want the best diesel I recommend the 250 GLK BlueTEC
> which was made from 2013 through 2015. Mine still has the original
> seven-year-old varta battery which is strong and does not need
> replacement despite being drained twice in the last month. My most
> recent fuel economy was nearly 36 mpg, which included off Highway
> local road travel as well as highway speed.
>

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

There was a HUUUGE difference in the DSG transmission in the 2014 Beetle 
TDI and the nearly identical new 2015. The 2014 was quite jerky starting out 
like a novice driving a manual, and the 2015 was nearly as smooth as a 
conventional automatic transmission. The shifts were quick and crisp.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>  I HATE DSG transmissions. I hate how they sound, I hate how they jerk in a 
> parking lot. I hate the feeling during shifts and they're fragile. Nothing to 
> like about those.
> The 6spd manual in my Jetta is a fantastic transmission, it shifts smoothly 
> and its geared nicely to live with. Sure its not a Mercedes but in 2015 you 
> could have my car for around $20,000. Very affordable compared to a Mercedes. 
> Its 80% as good (maybe more, 50mpg remember) for half the money.
> -Curt
> 
>On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 11:10:10 AM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Not quite accurate - our Passat TDI was one of the cheating cars and needed
> BlueTec fluid. The only things I didn't like about that car were the
> maintenance costs for the dual clutch tranny, the seats were not as
> comfortable as the W124, and the wind noise was higher than an old W124 at
> 70mph.
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
>> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>> 
>> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
>> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
>> to meet the test.
>> 
>> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>> 
>> The law is quite specific about this.
>> 
>> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
>> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
>> so egregious.
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I had a Jetta once, a 1991 model year (A2) purchased new (I was young
and my dad always bought his cars new, so I just thought that was the
right way to do it). I paid between $12K and $13K for it IIRC. 5-speed
manual, 1.8l NA 8v engine. This was a non-interference engine which was
important given the reputation VWs had for timing belts failing at the
replacement interval + 1 mile.

Shifted like butter, and had that solid german feel and handling unlike
modern VWs that are indistinguishable from Japanese cars.

Loved the car until it was about 10 years old, then everything started
falling apart. I'm sure 8 years of Northern IL winters didn't help.

Also owned a '91 Vanagon for a few years until it was totaled in a
wreck. I do miss that van. I was contemplating a Subaru engine
transplant or the Bostig Ford Zetec kit. I'd seriously consider another
one but nice examples are very rare around here.

Local VW dealer currently has a very nicely restored Type 2 sitting on
the lot as eye candy for passers-by. Asking $60K for it.

Allan


Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  I HATE DSG transmissions. I hate how they sound, I hate how they jerk in a 
> parking lot. I hate the feeling during shifts and they're fragile. Nothing to 
> like about those.
> The 6spd manual in my Jetta is a fantastic transmission, it shifts smoothly 
> and its geared nicely to live with. Sure its not a Mercedes but in 2015 you 
> could have my car for around $20,000. Very affordable compared to a Mercedes. 
> Its 80% as good (maybe more, 50mpg remember) for half the money.
> -Curt
>
> On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 11:10:10 AM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  Not quite accurate - our Passat TDI was one of the cheating cars and needed
> BlueTec fluid. The only things I didn't like about that car were the
> maintenance costs for the dual clutch tranny, the seats were not as
> comfortable as the W124, and the wind noise was higher than an old W124 at
> 70mph.
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
>> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>>
>> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
>> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
>> to meet the test.
>>
>> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>>
>> The law is quite specific about this.
>>
>> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
>> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
>> so egregious.

___
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

If you still want the best diesel I recommend the 250 GLK BlueTEC which was
made from 2013 through 2015. Mine still has the original seven-year-old
varta battery which is strong and does not need replacement despite being
drained twice in the last month. My most recent fuel economy was nearly 36
mpg, which included off Highway local road travel as well as highway speed.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 1:46 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I saw $1.99 Diesel yesterday.
>
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:56 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Speaking of low demand I've actually seen diesel prices start to sink.
> > They sat at $2.59 from basically the beginning of the year. Gas prices
> fell
> > $0.30 while diesel held constant.
> > Recently I've seen diesel as low as $2.39. An annoyingly slow drop but
> its
> > about time.
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Friday, September 18, 2020, 8:19:00 PM EDT, Clay via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >  We may be heading to the promised land of hydrogen.  The current viral
> > unrest has caused a depression in fossil fuel demand, with a decrease in
> > value.  With fuel hanging around $40 bbl there is no incentives to sink
> > funding into production, exploration, or delivery.  Long term outlook is
> > for continued very low demand for refining.  As the sale price goes up,
> the
> > idled production comes back online which further depresses the prices.
> It
> > is barely break even to produce normal oil at $40, let alone shale or
> more
> > complex plays.  Gas prices should remain down until refinery closes down
> > and makes pump prices rise, but there is no way for that to translate to
> > the rig pricing.
> >
> > All the glut of oil may be a prime time to crack the hydrogen out of it
> > and fill tanks with water producing eco fuel.  Except the price for
> energy
> > to crack it will go up.
> >
> >
> > clay
> >
> > “I think it’s time we stopped  our cringing embarrassment about our
> > history, about our traditions, and about our culture, and we stop this
> > general bout of self-recrimination and wetness.”
> >
> > B. Johnson
> > 01/09/2020
> >
> > > On Sep 18, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The problem with the diesels and NOx is that it's not possible to meet
> > the standard.  With ANY diesel engine.  Bad standard, as the NOx isn't
> all
> > that much worse than what's produced by gasoline engines, which also
> > produce quite a bit of particulate pollution.
> > >
> > > The real solution for clean air is to turn the clock back to the 1930s,
> > when we had integrated communities with work, schools, stores, and
> > professional services close by and intelligent urban design that moved
> > large numbers of people the same direction at the same time.
> > >
> > > We allowed GM, Standard Oil, and Goodyear Rubber to addict us to
> driving
> > all time, which I'm coming to intensely dislike.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I saw $1.99 Diesel yesterday.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:56 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Speaking of low demand I've actually seen diesel prices start to sink.
> They sat at $2.59 from basically the beginning of the year. Gas prices fell
> $0.30 while diesel held constant.
> Recently I've seen diesel as low as $2.39. An annoyingly slow drop but its
> about time.
> -Curt
>
> On Friday, September 18, 2020, 8:19:00 PM EDT, Clay via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>  We may be heading to the promised land of hydrogen.  The current viral
> unrest has caused a depression in fossil fuel demand, with a decrease in
> value.  With fuel hanging around $40 bbl there is no incentives to sink
> funding into production, exploration, or delivery.  Long term outlook is
> for continued very low demand for refining.  As the sale price goes up, the
> idled production comes back online which further depresses the prices.  It
> is barely break even to produce normal oil at $40, let alone shale or more
> complex plays.  Gas prices should remain down until refinery closes down
> and makes pump prices rise, but there is no way for that to translate to
> the rig pricing.
>
> All the glut of oil may be a prime time to crack the hydrogen out of it
> and fill tanks with water producing eco fuel.  Except the price for energy
> to crack it will go up.
>
>
> clay
>
> “I think it’s time we stopped  our cringing embarrassment about our
> history, about our traditions, and about our culture, and we stop this
> general bout of self-recrimination and wetness.”
>
> B. Johnson
> 01/09/2020
>
> > On Sep 18, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > The problem with the diesels and NOx is that it's not possible to meet
> the standard.  With ANY diesel engine.  Bad standard, as the NOx isn't all
> that much worse than what's produced by gasoline engines, which also
> produce quite a bit of particulate pollution.
> >
> > The real solution for clean air is to turn the clock back to the 1930s,
> when we had integrated communities with work, schools, stores, and
> professional services close by and intelligent urban design that moved
> large numbers of people the same direction at the same time.
> >
> > We allowed GM, Standard Oil, and Goodyear Rubber to addict us to driving
> all time, which I'm coming to intensely dislike.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I HATE DSG transmissions. I hate how they sound, I hate how they jerk in a 
parking lot. I hate the feeling during shifts and they're fragile. Nothing to 
like about those.
The 6spd manual in my Jetta is a fantastic transmission, it shifts smoothly and 
its geared nicely to live with. Sure its not a Mercedes but in 2015 you could 
have my car for around $20,000. Very affordable compared to a Mercedes. Its 80% 
as good (maybe more, 50mpg remember) for half the money.
-Curt

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 11:10:10 AM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Not quite accurate - our Passat TDI was one of the cheating cars and needed
BlueTec fluid. The only things I didn't like about that car were the
maintenance costs for the dual clutch tranny, the seats were not as
comfortable as the W124, and the wind noise was higher than an old W124 at
70mph.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>
> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
> to meet the test.
>
> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>
> The law is quite specific about this.
>
> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
> so egregious.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Speaking of low demand I've actually seen diesel prices start to sink. They 
sat at $2.59 from basically the beginning of the year. Gas prices fell $0.30 
while diesel held constant.
Recently I've seen diesel as low as $2.39. An annoyingly slow drop but its 
about time.
-Curt

On Friday, September 18, 2020, 8:19:00 PM EDT, Clay via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 We may be heading to the promised land of hydrogen.  The current viral unrest 
has caused a depression in fossil fuel demand, with a decrease in value.  With 
fuel hanging around $40 bbl there is no incentives to sink funding into 
production, exploration, or delivery.  Long term outlook is for continued very 
low demand for refining.  As the sale price goes up, the idled production comes 
back online which further depresses the prices.  It is barely break even to 
produce normal oil at $40, let alone shale or more complex plays.  Gas prices 
should remain down until refinery closes down and makes pump prices rise, but 
there is no way for that to translate to the rig pricing.

All the glut of oil may be a prime time to crack the hydrogen out of it and 
fill tanks with water producing eco fuel.  Except the price for energy to crack 
it will go up.


clay 

“I think it’s time we stopped  our cringing embarrassment about our history, 
about our traditions, and about our culture, and we stop this general bout of 
self-recrimination and wetness.”

B. Johnson
01/09/2020

> On Sep 18, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The problem with the diesels and NOx is that it's not possible to meet the 
> standard.  With ANY diesel engine.  Bad standard, as the NOx isn't all that 
> much worse than what's produced by gasoline engines, which also produce quite 
> a bit of particulate pollution.
> 
> The real solution for clean air is to turn the clock back to the 1930s, when 
> we had integrated communities with work, schools, stores, and professional 
> services close by and intelligent urban design that moved large numbers of 
> people the same direction at the same time.
> 
> We allowed GM, Standard Oil, and Goodyear Rubber to addict us to driving all 
> time, which I'm coming to intensely dislike.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-09-19 11:40, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

Yes I take your point on test conditions, but I would like to see the
language of that law.


I doubt the Clean Air Act says diddly about what qualifies as meeting 
standards, that, as well as the standards themselves, is a regulatory 
matter.
The thing about federal regulations is that you can be punished under 
them just like being punished under a law, but the regs are always 
interpreted in favor of your accuser who wrote them and gets to change 
its mind about what they mean whenever it wants, and hold you 
retroactively responsible for any change.


Sort of like BATF issuing several opinion letters over a period of years 
saying that a rifle buttstock is not a machine gun, and then the 
president saying 'it's a machine gun, make it so, I don't care what the 
law says', and then the BATF saying "We issued new regulations regarding 
your gun stocks. You have xx days to get rid of them or go to prison for 
up to 10 years per newly regulated possession, and no, we aren't 
compensating you for taking your possessions".


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes I take your point on test conditions, but I would like to see the
language of that law. I would argue any time multuple auto manufacturers
are found to be in multibillion dollar violation of a law, that either the
law is poorly written or the interpretation of that law was changed. Like
suddenly both vw and Mercedes decided independently to commit massive
emissions fraud? Unlikely. The PR is terrible and look at the direct cost.

Our Touareg ran bluetec also. That wasnt the issue with it. They just fixed
the software and we kept driving it. It took an hour.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 6:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>
> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
> to meet the test.
>
> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>
> The law is quite specific about this.
>
> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
> so egregious.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Not quite accurate - our Passat TDI was one of the cheating cars and needed
BlueTec fluid. The only things I didn't like about that car were the
maintenance costs for the dual clutch tranny, the seats were not as
comfortable as the W124, and the wind noise was higher than an old W124 at
70mph.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:48 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational
> parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.
>
> The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was
> being emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order
> to meet the test.
>
> Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.
>
> The law is quite specific about this.
>
> VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..
> Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been
> so egregious.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

No, the testing is supposed to be done with exactly the same operational 
parameters in the computers as real world driving conditions.

The fine is for writing software that figured out when the vehicle was being 
emission tested and using DIFFERENT operational parameters in order to meet the 
test.

Of course it didn't when run on the road, it wasn't intended to.  

The law is quite specific about this.

VW decided to cheat instead of using BlueTec technology, and got caught..  
Seems Daimler did something similar, although it doesn't seem to have been so 
egregious.
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Missed opportunity. They don't import any diesels any more that I am aware
of. I looked for a diesel suv in 2018 and couldnt find any.at the dealers.

Our old 2014 vw touareg diesel is still chugging merrily around the black
hills with my sister at the wheel. Pushes 40mpg on the highway. 400 ft lbs
of torque. Great car.

I guess my problem with the fines is that the cars complied with the
testing at the time, which was emissions on rollers in a shed somewhere.
Then they decided to change the test to variable conditions real world
driving, and surprise - the old cars did not meet the standard. This is
called moving the goalposts. It is not mercedes' fault that the original
test was crap and only tested one operating condition. If you only test for
that, of course everyone is going to optimize their software for that. It
is like deciding after grades are out to have everyone come back to take a
different exam and then change the curve so they all fail. Kind of a
shakedown type move.

Meanwhile even the worst of these cars puts out a fraction of what any old
123 or 124 puts out every day.

I like clean air as much as the next guy. Bring on the lithium and the
hydrogen. Frankly I am more interested in what India and China are doing on
emissions than what we are doing, even though we seem to pollute a lot also.



On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 11:50 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/massive-15-billion-proposed-settlement-announced-alleged-vehicle
>
> The U.S. Department of Justice, Environmental Protection Agency, and
> California Air Resources Board on Monday announced a proposed settlement
> worth around $1.5 billion with auto titan Daimler AG and U.S. subsidiary
> Mercedes Benz USA, in connection with the company allegedly selling more
> than a quarter million vehicles while failing to comply with emissions
> requirements.
>
> The automaker over a period spanning from 2009 to 2016 allegedly sold in
> excess of 250,000 vehicles with undeclared auxiliary emission control
> devices (AECDs) "and defeat devices programmed into the vehicles' complex
> emissions control software," the Justice Deparment said in a press release
> <
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-reaches-15-billion-settlement-daimler-ag-over-emissions-cheating-mercedes-benz-diesel
> >
> .
>
> "These devices cause the vehicles to produce compliant results during
> emissions testing. But when not running a test, the vehicles’ emissions
> controls perform differently, and less effectively, resulting in an
> increase in NOx emissions above compliant levels," the department said.
>
> As part of the proposed settlement, the company would pay $875,000,000 for
> civil penalties and approximately $70,300,000 for other penalties. It would
> also recall and fix emissions systems for Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles
> that were sold in America between 2009-2016.
>
> Other aspects of the settlement would boost the estimated amount to
> approximately $1.5 billion.
>
> "The company will also extend the warranty period for certain parts in the
> repaired vehicles, perform projects to mitigate excess ozone-creating
> nitrogen oxides (NOx) emitted from the vehicles, and implement new internal
> audit procedures designed to prevent future emissions cheating," according
> to the Justice Department. "The recall program and federal mitigation
> project are expected to cost the company about $436,000,000. The company
> will pay another $110,000,000 to fund mitigation projects in California."
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Thank you... I could not restrain my sarcastic muscle, which is likely
overdeveloped.. ;))

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 5:57 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:56:28 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > O... The humanity !!!
> >
> > Now, California will have to burn yet another 4 million acres of mature
> > forest to balance the earth's atmosphere...
> > [Sarcasm intended here folks]
>
> Good use of sarcasm, Grant! Thanks!
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:56:28 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes
 wrote:

> O... The humanity !!!
> 
> Now, California will have to burn yet another 4 million acres of mature
> forest to balance the earth's atmosphere...
> [Sarcasm intended here folks]

Good use of sarcasm, Grant! Thanks!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Clay via Mercedes]

We may be heading to the promised land of hydrogen.  The current viral unrest 
has caused a depression in fossil fuel demand, with a decrease in value.  With 
fuel hanging around $40 bbl there is no incentives to sink funding into 
production, exploration, or delivery.  Long term outlook is for continued very 
low demand for refining.  As the sale price goes up, the idled production comes 
back online which further depresses the prices.  It is barely break even to 
produce normal oil at $40, let alone shale or more complex plays.  Gas prices 
should remain down until refinery closes down and makes pump prices rise, but 
there is no way for that to translate to the rig pricing.

All the glut of oil may be a prime time to crack the hydrogen out of it and 
fill tanks with water producing eco fuel.  Except the price for energy to crack 
it will go up.


clay 

“I think it’s time we stopped  our cringing embarrassment about our history, 
about our traditions, and about our culture, and we stop this general bout of 
self-recrimination and wetness.”

B. Johnson
01/09/2020

> On Sep 18, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The problem with the diesels and NOx is that it's not possible to meet the 
> standard.  With ANY diesel engine.  Bad standard, as the NOx isn't all that 
> much worse than what's produced by gasoline engines, which also produce quite 
> a bit of particulate pollution.
> 
> The real solution for clean air is to turn the clock back to the 1930s, when 
> we had integrated communities with work, schools, stores, and professional 
> services close by and intelligent urban design that moved large numbers of 
> people the same direction at the same time.
> 
> We allowed GM, Standard Oil, and Goodyear Rubber to addict us to driving all 
> time, which I'm coming to intensely dislike.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> Nor appreciated.

I appreciated it.  I wonder how all that 'evil' pollution compares to the 
emissions
from just this one fire season?  Much of our politicized responses these days
lacks perspective, and reasonableness.

This is the most interesting part:

>>> The company
>>> will pay another $110,000,000 to fund mitigation projects in California."

Looks like pure pork-barrel buy-off to me.  Those unelected blow-hards
in CARB have a lot to answer for.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> We allowed GM, Standard Oil, and Goodyear Rubber to addict us to driving all 
> time, which I'm coming to intensely dislike.

I now rarely drive, as it turns out.  I'm liking it.  I thought GM's buying up 
and ending mass transit
back in the day was pretty heinous.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The problem with the diesels and NOx is that it's not possible to meet the 
standard.  With ANY diesel engine.  Bad standard, as the NOx isn't all that 
much worse than what's produced by gasoline engines, which also produce quite a 
bit of particulate pollution.

The real solution for clean air is to turn the clock back to the 1930s, when we 
had integrated communities with work, schools, stores, and professional 
services close by and intelligent urban design that moved large numbers of 
people the same direction at the same time.

We allowed GM, Standard Oil, and Goodyear Rubber to addict us to driving all 
time, which I'm coming to intensely dislike.



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Nor appreciated.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 5:57 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> O... The humanity !!!
>
> Now, California will have to burn yet another 4 million acres of mature
> forest to balance the earth's atmosphere...
> [Sarcasm intended here folks]
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:50 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/massive-15-billion-proposed-settlement-announced-alleged-vehicle
> >
> > The U.S. Department of Justice, Environmental Protection Agency, and
> > California Air Resources Board on Monday announced a proposed settlement
> > worth around $1.5 billion with auto titan Daimler AG and U.S. subsidiary
> > Mercedes Benz USA, in connection with the company allegedly selling more
> > than a quarter million vehicles while failing to comply with emissions
> > requirements.
> >
> > The automaker over a period spanning from 2009 to 2016 allegedly sold in
> > excess of 250,000 vehicles with undeclared auxiliary emission control
> > devices (AECDs) "and defeat devices programmed into the vehicles' complex
> > emissions control software," the Justice Deparment said in a press
> release
> > <
> >
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-reaches-15-billion-settlement-daimler-ag-over-emissions-cheating-mercedes-benz-diesel
> > >
> > .
> >
> > "These devices cause the vehicles to produce compliant results during
> > emissions testing. But when not running a test, the vehicles’ emissions
> > controls perform differently, and less effectively, resulting in an
> > increase in NOx emissions above compliant levels," the department said.
> >
> > As part of the proposed settlement, the company would pay $875,000,000
> for
> > civil penalties and approximately $70,300,000 for other penalties. It
> would
> > also recall and fix emissions systems for Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles
> > that were sold in America between 2009-2016.
> >
> > Other aspects of the settlement would boost the estimated amount to
> > approximately $1.5 billion.
> >
> > "The company will also extend the warranty period for certain parts in
> the
> > repaired vehicles, perform projects to mitigate excess ozone-creating
> > nitrogen oxides (NOx) emitted from the vehicles, and implement new
> internal
> > audit procedures designed to prevent future emissions cheating,"
> according
> > to the Justice Department. "The recall program and federal mitigation
> > project are expected to cost the company about $436,000,000. The company
> > will pay another $110,000,000 to fund mitigation projects in California."
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[G Mann via Mercedes]

O... The humanity !!!

Now, California will have to burn yet another 4 million acres of mature
forest to balance the earth's atmosphere...
[Sarcasm intended here folks]


On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 11:50 AM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/massive-15-billion-proposed-settlement-announced-alleged-vehicle
>
> The U.S. Department of Justice, Environmental Protection Agency, and
> California Air Resources Board on Monday announced a proposed settlement
> worth around $1.5 billion with auto titan Daimler AG and U.S. subsidiary
> Mercedes Benz USA, in connection with the company allegedly selling more
> than a quarter million vehicles while failing to comply with emissions
> requirements.
>
> The automaker over a period spanning from 2009 to 2016 allegedly sold in
> excess of 250,000 vehicles with undeclared auxiliary emission control
> devices (AECDs) "and defeat devices programmed into the vehicles' complex
> emissions control software," the Justice Deparment said in a press release
> <
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-reaches-15-billion-settlement-daimler-ag-over-emissions-cheating-mercedes-benz-diesel
> >
> .
>
> "These devices cause the vehicles to produce compliant results during
> emissions testing. But when not running a test, the vehicles’ emissions
> controls perform differently, and less effectively, resulting in an
> increase in NOx emissions above compliant levels," the department said.
>
> As part of the proposed settlement, the company would pay $875,000,000 for
> civil penalties and approximately $70,300,000 for other penalties. It would
> also recall and fix emissions systems for Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles
> that were sold in America between 2009-2016.
>
> Other aspects of the settlement would boost the estimated amount to
> approximately $1.5 billion.
>
> "The company will also extend the warranty period for certain parts in the
> repaired vehicles, perform projects to mitigate excess ozone-creating
> nitrogen oxides (NOx) emitted from the vehicles, and implement new internal
> audit procedures designed to prevent future emissions cheating," according
> to the Justice Department. "The recall program and federal mitigation
> project are expected to cost the company about $436,000,000. The company
> will pay another $110,000,000 to fund mitigation projects in California."
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] Daimler cheated too? (I'm sure VW feels better now)

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/massive-15-billion-proposed-settlement-announced-alleged-vehicle

The U.S. Department of Justice, Environmental Protection Agency, and
California Air Resources Board on Monday announced a proposed settlement
worth around $1.5 billion with auto titan Daimler AG and U.S. subsidiary
Mercedes Benz USA, in connection with the company allegedly selling more
than a quarter million vehicles while failing to comply with emissions
requirements.

The automaker over a period spanning from 2009 to 2016 allegedly sold in
excess of 250,000 vehicles with undeclared auxiliary emission control
devices (AECDs) "and defeat devices programmed into the vehicles' complex
emissions control software," the Justice Deparment said in a press release

.

"These devices cause the vehicles to produce compliant results during
emissions testing. But when not running a test, the vehicles’ emissions
controls perform differently, and less effectively, resulting in an
increase in NOx emissions above compliant levels," the department said.

As part of the proposed settlement, the company would pay $875,000,000 for
civil penalties and approximately $70,300,000 for other penalties. It would
also recall and fix emissions systems for Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles
that were sold in America between 2009-2016.

Other aspects of the settlement would boost the estimated amount to
approximately $1.5 billion.

"The company will also extend the warranty period for certain parts in the
repaired vehicles, perform projects to mitigate excess ozone-creating
nitrogen oxides (NOx) emitted from the vehicles, and implement new internal
audit procedures designed to prevent future emissions cheating," according
to the Justice Department. "The recall program and federal mitigation
project are expected to cost the company about $436,000,000. The company
will pay another $110,000,000 to fund mitigation projects in California."
-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler next?

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I thought of something funny but I guess it would be better for banned.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2018, at 9:01 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> The carmaker Volkswagen has suspended its head of external relations and 
> sustainability after admitting that he had known about experiments in which 
> monkeys were locked in small chambers and exposed to diesel exhaust.
> The Volkswagen emissions scandal explained
> Read more
> 
> Thomas Steg, a former government spokesman, who worked for German chancellor 
> Angela Merkel and her predecessor Gerhard Schröder, is the first person to be 
> relieved of his duties as VW said it was “drawing the consequences” of the 
> scandal which has rocked both the government and industry.
> 
> The company initially tried to distance itself from the institute which 
> commissioned the tests, the European Research Group of Environment and Health 
> in the Transport Sector (EUGT), a car lobby group funded by Volkswagen, 
> DAIMLER and BMW. But it is now known that VW managers were informed about the 
> testing before and after it was carried out.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/30/vw-suspends-media-chief-monkey-exhaust-tests-diesel-emissions
> 
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[MBZ] Daimler next?

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

The carmaker Volkswagen has suspended its head of external relations and 
sustainability after admitting that he had known about experiments in which 
monkeys were locked in small chambers and exposed to diesel exhaust.
The Volkswagen emissions scandal explained
Read more

Thomas Steg, a former government spokesman, who worked for German chancellor 
Angela Merkel and her predecessor Gerhard Schröder, is the first person to be 
relieved of his duties as VW said it was “drawing the consequences” of the 
scandal which has rocked both the government and industry.

The company initially tried to distance itself from the institute which 
commissioned the tests, the European Research Group of Environment and Health 
in the Transport Sector (EUGT), a car lobby group funded by Volkswagen, DAIMLER 
and BMW. But it is now known that VW managers were informed about the testing 
before and after it was carried out.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/30/vw-suspends-media-chief-monkey-exhaust-tests-diesel-emissions

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[MBZ] Daimler shareholders brawl over sausage buffet

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You can't make this stuff up . . .

"If there's one thing that Germans like more than generating profits from
selling luxury automobiles, it's sausages. At a recent Daimler shareholder
meeting, two investors got into such an argument over the complimentary
wursts that the police had to be called in to intervene.

The incident, according to *Bloomberg*
,
was sparked at the automaker's annual general meeting in Berlin, where the
Mercedes-Benz parent company announced dividends of €3.25 euros ($3.70) per
share. As if that wasn't enough to keep the investors happy, the company
served sausages – some 12,500 of them for the 5,500 shareholders present,
which works out to more than two per head.
One gentleman apparently wanted more than his fair share, though, and
started loading his plate up with wieners. A woman stepped in, and what
started as a verbal altercation reportedly spiraled out of control to the
point that the Polizei had to step in. Details remain scarce, but (mostly
for our own amusement) we're the picturing a mess of sausages flying every
which way, *lederhosen* being snapped, and handlebar mustaches pulled as
the polka musicians tried to keep up the tempo. Daimler reportedly plans to
either prepare more sausages next time around, or cut them out altogether."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/daimler-shareholders-brawl-over-sausage-buffet/ar-BBrtzET?li=BBnbfcL=edgsp
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[MBZ] Daimler enters the home batteries market

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

AUTOS:Following Tesla, Daimler enters the at-home battery space
Published: Thursday, June 11, 2015

Last summer, Tesla Motors Inc., in a move meant to stimulate improvements
in electric vehicle technology and an expansion of the sector, made its
patents free to outsiders.

Since then, Toyota Motor Corp., Hyundai Motor Co. and Ford Motor Co. have
opened up alternative fuel patents, too, and Audi AG announced plans in
February to buy patents from Ballard Power Systems, a fuel cell producer.

Two days ago, Daimler AG, the corporate parent of Mercedes-Benz and Smart,
unveiled a product that again has Tesla looking like an automotive
tastemaker -- a residential and commercial electric battery.

Customers can now order Mercedes-Benz's private energy storage plants,
knee-high silver towers each with 2.5 kilowatt-hours in electric storage
capacity.

The company will present the batteries at the Intersolar trade show in
Munich today and Friday, Daimler said in a statement
http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-657589-1-1820346-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0...@aj.a1.s177018-0-0-0-0.html?TS=1433965032404
.

Deliveries are set to begin in September, and Daimler has not revealed a
price or name for the electric units.

Daimler said Tuesday that owners can combine up to eight batteries, which
will be available for companies and private households, into a 20-kWh
system.

In May, Tesla announced a similar electric battery system, the Powerwall, a
sleek lithium-ion block that buyers can mount on their walls, as well as
the Powerpack, 100-kWh batteries for utilities (*ClimateWire*
http://www.eenews.net/climatewire/stories/1060017795/, May 1). Owners
will be able to stack as many as nine Powerwalls.

The Powerwall comes in 7- and 10-kWh versions, for $3,000 and $3,500,
respectively, which doesn't include installation costs.

I think it's fascinating to see this development, Karl Brauer, a senior
analyst with Kelley Blue Book, said in a call about the Daimler battery.

As photovoltaic systems drop in price, become easier to install and
maintain, and get more energy efficient, car and battery companies are
going to scramble into the power storage business, he said.

In October, Daimler sold the last of its 4 percent stake in Tesla. At the
time, the company said it would continue to purchase electric batteries
from Tesla for its 87-mile-range B-Class plug-in electric car. Mercedes
offers its own at-home charging stations.

Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk told shareholders this week the company
will double the power output of the Powerwall (*ClimateWire*
http://www.eenews.net/climatewire/stories/1060019963, June 10).

Batteries are going to be huge, Brauer said. I think you're going to
keep seeing this come up, he said, adding that if Musk, through Tesla or
otherwise, can profitably produce batteries, that could dwarf anything he
could come up with related to cars.
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[MBZ] Daimler expansion pegged at $500M, 1,300 jobs; state provides $14M grant, tax break

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150306/PC05/150309570/1177

Diamler imports Sprinters that have had the engine assemblies removed 
from finished trucks (some sort of law that does not allow them to be 
imported whole) and puts them back together at a plant in the area.  Now 
it looks like they will be building them more now with this new plant.


My tax dollars at work.

--R



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[ernest breakfield via Mercedes]

i (for one) wish buying a simple car was an option here. what would it 
cost? would a Mercedes built today last 25, 30, 35 years?

consider that the 300D sold for upwards of $30K in the 1980s...


cheers!
e


On 22/Sep/14 18:48, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:


They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ?


Are you suggesting that if MBUSA would let you buy a taxi grade E250 
diesel you'd consider it?


Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

i (for one) wish buying a simple car was an option here. what would it 
cost? would a Mercedes built today last 25, 30, 35 years?

consider that the 300D sold for upwards of $30K in the 1980s...


I'd not be in the market for a new one.  The problem is they're
not really making the things now that I'd want to buy used in
the future.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

-- Jim wrote:
 The problem is they're
 not really making the things now that I'd want to buy used in
 the future.

That is totally true.  I agree entirely!!
ma

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:


They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ‎


Are you suggesting that if MBUSA would let you buy a taxi grade E250 diesel 
you'd consider it?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

How much would something like that cost? I'd probably consider it if they could 
come in around $20k.

-Curt



 From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler
 

Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

 They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ‎

Are you suggesting that if MBUSA would let you buy a taxi grade E250 diesel 
you'd consider it?

Mitch.




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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well the 250 as offered now is around 59-60k, I have priced them. I can get 
used with about 10k miles for less
Than 50k at carmax

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 22, 2014, at 8:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 How much would something like that cost? I'd probably consider it if they 
 could come in around $20k.
 
 -Curt
 
 
 
 From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler
 
 
 Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
 
 They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ‎
 
 Are you suggesting that if MBUSA would let you buy a taxi grade E250 diesel 
 you'd consider it?
 
 Mitch.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Original Message  
From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 8:49 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Mitch Haley
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler

Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

 They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit.

Are you suggesting that if MBUSA would let you buy a taxi grade E250 diesel 
you'd consider it?


‎If such an auto exists in the rest of the world, yes. 40 MPG, MB suspension, 
MB seats, crank ups, manual a/c... I have an hundred miles a day commute. That 
would be an ideal car for me. 

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
  

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

No. The 123 300D's cost that in the 80's. Nice dream.
On Sep 22, 2014 9:59 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 How much would something like that cost? I'd probably consider it if they
 could come in around $20k.

 -Curt


 
  From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler


 Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

  They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ‎

 Are you suggesting that if MBUSA would let you buy a taxi grade E250 diesel
 you'd consider it?

 Mitch.




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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Given the $60k price of the USA version, I'm thinking $40k (average price of a
F250 Powerstroke ten years ago) would be a miracle.
 
Mitch.

 On September 22, 2014 at 10:13 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


 No. The 123 300D's cost that in the 80's. Nice dream.
 On Sep 22, 2014 9:59 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

  How much would something like that cost? I'd probably consider it if they
  could come in around $20k.
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Interesting that around the early 1980s when Mercedes was having trouble 
selling cars, it was announced that henceforth the sales division would be 
running Mercedes rather than the engineering division.

A few years later it was announced that only the most expensive cars would be 
sold in the U.S.  That philosophy still seems to be in effect at Mercedes.

The expensive cars are fine for someone who is not interested in economy of 
operation (which includes repairs, price, and resale), but those of us who are 
must now look elsewhere if we want late model cars.
In terms of economy and reliability, the Japanese; especially Honda and Toyota; 
are the current champs although some European makes not imported to the U.S. 
may be better.

Gerry...who always look for cost of operation first.
..

OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
 preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
 buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap into
  Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
  tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in failure.
 
  And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
  Peter
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 OK Don
 
 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
 
 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
 learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
 for themselves.
 
 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
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 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8224 - Release Date: 09/16/14
 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Well, thats pretty much what they do.  I have a bare-bones GLK 250 blue tec
as a company car right now.  It has very few options, not too many of the
modern gizmos.  I really like it, despite not liking SUVs.  I think it
actually rides better than the C class!  And the 4 cylinder diesel is
wonderful.  They're not cheap cars, but they never have been.  Remember,
even 240Ds were expensive when they were new.

The B class is a simple and effective car, although only sold as an EV in
the US.

Jaime


On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 10:15 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Times change, cars change. If Mercedes would build a 240D in this day and
 age it would become the laughing stock of auto manufacturers. However,
 something in the spirit of a 240D might work. Simple, really well built and
 economical. Volkswagen kind of does it with the Jetta diesel. Why can't
 Mercedes do it with a C class or CLA or B?

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 16, 2014, at 9:46 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  and the amzing thing is that for all the talk of people wanting that
 here,
  you'd hardly sell any if you did
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Ha, good response.
 
  As much as we'd like them to put 240D's back into production and sell
 them
  for $18,000, I don't think its going to happen.
 
  Jaime
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com
  wrote:
 
  I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
  preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new
 MB
  buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap
  into
  Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones,
 rather
  tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
  failure.
 
  And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
  Peter
 
 
  --
  OK Don
 
  NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US
 citizens!
 
  There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
  who
  learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric
 fence
  for themselves.
 
  WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
  2013 F150, 18 mpg
  2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
  1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
  ___
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  individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list
 owner
  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 
  --
  Jaime Kopchinski
  http://www.jaimekop.com/
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  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 
  --
 
 
  *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
  *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com*
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-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Gary wrote:
 sometimes i wonder if i really am the great communicator


One thing we know for sure about Gary.
He is the ChowdahKing - even if he did not attend the ChowdahQ.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[David Bruckmann via Mercedes]

On 9/17/14, Jaime wrote:
The B class is a simple and effective car, although only sold as an EV in
the US.

Yes, which is too bad. It has been pretty popular in Canada for the last few 
years, from what I understand. Wacky rear suspension though!

D.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

The negative effect on Mercedes is pretty foolish... at least in suggesting
that Chrysler had their hand at engineering Mercedes.

But Chrysler received a large amount of Mercedes technology in many forms.
 Interior controls, suspension, transmissions, even entire car platforms
(The crossfire was based on the old R170 SLK , which came out around the
same time as the R171).  Its pretty obvious if you sit in a Chrysler 300,
for example.

Jaime


On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 It seems most are of the opinion that when DBAG bought Chrysler, it had a
 negative effect on  MB autos. Do you think the reverse is true? Were
 Chrysler products improved in the early 2000's because of there association
 with Daimler?

 Rick
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That is one visually impressive car, although I've never sat in one.

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 The negative effect on Mercedes is pretty foolish... at least in suggesting
 that Chrysler had their hand at engineering Mercedes.

 But Chrysler received a large amount of Mercedes technology in many forms.
  Interior controls, suspension, transmissions, even entire car platforms
 (The crossfire was based on the old R170 SLK , which came out around the
 same time as the R171).  Its pretty obvious if you sit in a Chrysler 300,
 for example.

 Jaime


 On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  It seems most are of the opinion that when DBAG bought Chrysler, it had a
  negative effect on  MB autos. Do you think the reverse is true? Were
  Chrysler products improved in the early 2000's because of there
 association
  with Daimler?
 
  Rick
  Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
 
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  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎Thanks Jaime. That's kinda what I thought. 
‎
Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

  Original Message  
From: Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 2:47 PM
To: Rick Knoble; Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Jaime Kopchinski
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler

The negative effect on Mercedes is pretty foolish... at least in suggesting
that Chrysler had their hand at engineering Mercedes.

But Chrysler received a large amount of Mercedes technology in many forms.
 Interior controls, suspension, transmissions, even entire car platforms
(The crossfire was based on the old R170 SLK , which came out around the
same time as the R171).  Its pretty obvious if you sit in a Chrysler 300,
for example.


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap  
into Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones,  
rather tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed  
in failure.


And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap into
 Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
 tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in failure.

 And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.

 Peter




-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Ha, good response.

As much as we'd like them to put 240D's back into production and sell them
for $18,000, I don't think its going to happen.

Jaime


On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
 preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
 buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .

 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap into
  Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
  tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
 failure.
 
  And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
  Peter
 
 


 --
 OK Don

 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
 learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
 for themselves.

 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com

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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
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 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.




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http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

yes, that is exactly what it is, don, and not a conspiracy of chrysler
gizmoization, probably engineered by obama and the illuminati

jaime once brought a benz engineer to my pool and he explained it to me

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
 preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
 buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .

 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap into
  Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
  tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
 failure.
 
  And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
  Peter
 
 


 --
 OK Don

 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
 learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
 for themselves.

 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com

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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

and the amzing thing is that for all the talk of people wanting that here,
you'd hardly sell any if you did


On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Ha, good response.

 As much as we'd like them to put 240D's back into production and sell them
 for $18,000, I don't think its going to happen.

 Jaime


 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

  I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
  preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
  buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
   I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap
 into
   Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
   tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
  failure.
  
   And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
  
   Peter
  
  
 
 
  --
  OK Don
 
  NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
 
  There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
 who
  learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
  for themselves.
 
  WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
  2013 F150, 18 mpg
  2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
  1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
 
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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  All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
  individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 



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 http://www.jaimekop.com/
 ___
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 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.




-- 


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[dseretakis--- via Mercedes]

Times change, cars change. If Mercedes would build a 240D in this day and age 
it would become the laughing stock of auto manufacturers. However, something in 
the spirit of a 240D might work. Simple, really well built and economical. 
Volkswagen kind of does it with the Jetta diesel. Why can't Mercedes do it with 
a C class or CLA or B?

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 16, 2014, at 9:46 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 and the amzing thing is that for all the talk of people wanting that here,
 you'd hardly sell any if you did
 
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Ha, good response.
 
 As much as we'd like them to put 240D's back into production and sell them
 for $18,000, I don't think its going to happen.
 
 Jaime
 
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
 preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
 buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap
 into
 Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
 tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
 failure.
 
 And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
 Peter
 
 
 --
 OK Don
 
 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
 
 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
 who
 learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
 for themselves.
 
 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 
 --
 Jaime Kopchinski
 http://www.jaimekop.com/
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 
 *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
 *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com*
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Jon Agne via Mercedes]

What Dimitri said!


On Sep 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Times change, cars change. If Mercedes would build a 240D in this day and age 
 it would become the laughing stock of auto manufacturers. However, something 
 in the spirit of a 240D might work. Simple, really well built and economical. 
 Volkswagen kind of does it with the Jetta diesel. Why can't Mercedes do it 
 with a C class or CLA or B?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 16, 2014, at 9:46 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 and the amzing thing is that for all the talk of people wanting that here,
 you'd hardly sell any if you did
 
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Ha, good response.
 
 As much as we'd like them to put 240D's back into production and sell them
 for $18,000, I don't think its going to happen.
 
 Jaime
 
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
 preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new MB
 buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .
 
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap
 into
 Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones, rather
 tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
 failure.
 
 And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
 Peter
 
 
 --
 OK Don
 
 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
 
 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
 who
 learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
 for themselves.
 
 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 
 --
 Jaime Kopchinski
 http://www.jaimekop.com/
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
 has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 
 *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european cars*
 *www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com*
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

From: dseretakis--- via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:15 PM
To: Gary Hurst; Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: dsereta...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler

Times change, cars change. If Mercedes would build a 240D in this day and age 
it would become the laughing stock of auto manufacturers. However, something 
in the spirit of a 240D might work. Simple, really well built and 
economical. Volkswagen kind of does it with the Jetta diesel. Why can't 
Mercedes do it with a C class or CLA or B?‎

They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ‎

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
‎

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

i think i said something like that initially

sometimes i wonder if i really am the great communicator

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Jon Agne via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 What Dimitri said!


 On Sep 16, 2014, at 10:15 PM, dseretakis--- via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Times change, cars change. If Mercedes would build a 240D in this day
 and age it would become the laughing stock of auto manufacturers. However,
 something in the spirit of a 240D might work. Simple, really well built and
 economical. Volkswagen kind of does it with the Jetta diesel. Why can't
 Mercedes do it with a C class or CLA or B?
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Sep 16, 2014, at 9:46 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  and the amzing thing is that for all the talk of people wanting that
 here,
  you'd hardly sell any if you did
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Ha, good response.
 
  As much as we'd like them to put 240D's back into production and sell
 them
  for $18,000, I don't think its going to happen.
 
  Jaime
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com
  wrote:
 
  I suspect that is the result of market research and actual customer
  preferences. I don't think that this group represents the average new
 MB
  buyer. We are indeed, a relatively odd lot . . . .
 
  On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  I suspect there was considerable leakage of junk gizmo flashy crap
  into
  Mercedes from Chrysler.  The new cars are NOT like the old ones,
 rather
  tinny, full of electronic toys of dubious utility and designed in
  failure.
 
  And they are UGLY and very hard to see out of.
 
  Peter
 
 
  --
  OK Don
 
  NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US
 citizens!
 
  There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The
 few
  who
  learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric
 fence
  for themselves.
 
  WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
  2013 F150, 18 mpg
  2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
  1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
 
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To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] Daimler basics

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

Ahh yes the old 'lets turn back time' thread, we want a simple car for 
simple folk, lets build the 123 in India or somewhere.
Problem is modern engines are complex and need to be to meet emissions, 
sure manual gearbox technology has not changed much, neither have brakes 
and suspensions, if you just want the basics.
These days you probably can't order a manual Merc in the US or Oz unless 
it is a commercial vehicle?
Daimler would probably love to sell you a simple and reliable 240D style 
car for lots of dollars but people want gadgets and these gadgets need 
electronics.

The tronics need to be fed.

Hendrik
who has a few complex system in the Merc but relatively simple to fix

On 17/09/14 12:00, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

From: dseretakis--- via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:15 PM
To: Gary Hurst; Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: dsereta...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler


Times change, cars change. If Mercedes would build a 240D in this day and age it would become 
the laughing stock of auto manufacturers. However, something in the spirit of a 240D might 
work. Simple, really well built and economical. Volkswagen kind of does it with the Jetta 
diesel. Why can't Mercedes do it with a C class or CLA or B?‎

They could do it with the E250 and I would not complain one bit. ‎

Rick



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[clay via Mercedes]

The chrysler cars became a whole bunch better than the garbage K cars of the 
1980s.  It was a boost to Jeep as well.   Joining up/being bought by DBAG must 
have swept the cruft from the machine

clay


On Sep 14, 2014, at 6:50 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

 It seems most are of the opinion that when DBAG bought Chrysler, it had a 
 negative effect on  MB autos. Do you think the reverse is true? Were Chrysler 
 products improved in the early 2000's because of there association with 
 Daimler? 
 
 Rick 
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
 
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[MBZ] Daimler

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

It seems most are of the opinion that when DBAG bought Chrysler, it had a 
negative effect on  MB autos. Do you think the reverse is true? Were Chrysler 
products improved in the early 2000's because of there association with 
Daimler? 

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
It seems most are of the opinion that when DBAG bought Chrysler, it had a negative effect on  MB autos. Do you think the reverse is true? Were Chrysler products improved in the early 2000's because of there association with Daimler? 


I think the Magnum and Charger are S210 and W210 chassis, aren't they?
And a lot of Chrysler products picked up the 722.6 transmission, known as NAG-1 
in Chrysler speak.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

No not really

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:50 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 It seems most are of the opinion that when DBAG bought Chrysler, it had a 
 negative effect on  MB autos. Do you think the reverse is true? Were Chrysler 
 products improved in the early 2000's because of there association with 
 Daimler? 
 
 Rick 
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
 
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[MBZ] Daimler trucks adds jobs

[RELNGSON]

www.just-auto.com/nd.aspx?id=115896lk=dm

RLE
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[MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to non-authorized dealers

[David Bruckmann]

Yesterday I received the following notification from DB Depot in Germany (I've 
made a couple of minor corrections to their translation from German). 

I wonder if the new policy affects our friendly retailers here in the United 
States. Rusty, any comment? I notice that things are pepping up over at 
www.mbwholesaleparts.com, which probably has something to do with all of this...


2010-12-03
Mid-November, Daimler AG imposed an immediate ban of sales for original parts 
to non-authorized dealers, under threat of penalty in case of violation on the 
part of the official Mercedes dealers, to the point of withdrawal of the 
official dealer authorization.

In our case this meant the compulsory and abrupt ending of a trustful business 
relationship with the local Mercedes dealer that had lasted for nearly two 
decades.

In view of the sharpness and haste with which this sanction was set upon the 
world, gives an idea of the pressure under which the Daimler AG is acting here. 
Unfortunate and questionable it is however, that no official information is 
given to enlighten the background - this lets us only assume, that it might all 
have to do with the continuous issues between the Daimler AG and the US stock 
exchange supervision SEC.

Having said all this, you might finally want to know, how all this might affect 
you?

Well, actually there won't be serious changes to our product range: we will 
still be able to offer OEM quality products such as rubber seals, engine-, 
axle- and suspension parts at very competitive prices. The one thing that will 
change, is that there will temporarily be no more complementary smaller bits 
like clips, screws or other parts, that are exclusively supplied by Mercedes.

We will use the now free capacity to expand our product range to other Mercedes 
models and components not yet listed - so keep expecting the most of us.

http://www.dbdepot.de/index.php?nav=1lan=2;

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to non-authorized dealers

[Rusty Cullens]

I called my contacts and they have heard nothing of the sort. They have not 
been able to sell TRP (theft related parts)items for some time but that is 
all.



Rusty Cullens
BuyMBparts, Inc.
www.buyMBparts.biz
www.buyEUROparts.biz
www.buyASIANparts.biz
Tel/ 1-800-741-5252
Fax/ 770-454-9745
ICQ 427542441
AIM BuyMBparts

- Original Message - 
From: David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 3:09 AM
Subject: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to 
non-authorized dealers



Yesterday I received the following notification from DB Depot in Germany 
(I've made a couple of minor corrections to their translation from 
German).


I wonder if the new policy affects our friendly retailers here in the 
United States. Rusty, any comment? I notice that things are pepping up 
over at www.mbwholesaleparts.com, which probably has something to do with 
all of this...



2010-12-03
Mid-November, Daimler AG imposed an immediate ban of sales for original 
parts to non-authorized dealers, under threat of penalty in case of 
violation on the part of the official Mercedes dealers, to the point of 
withdrawal of the official dealer authorization.


In our case this meant the compulsory and abrupt ending of a trustful 
business relationship with the local Mercedes dealer that had lasted for 
nearly two decades.


In view of the sharpness and haste with which this sanction was set upon 
the world, gives an idea of the pressure under which the Daimler AG is 
acting here. Unfortunate and questionable it is however, that no official 
information is given to enlighten the background - this lets us only 
assume, that it might all have to do with the continuous issues between 
the Daimler AG and the US stock exchange supervision SEC.


Having said all this, you might finally want to know, how all this might 
affect you?


Well, actually there won't be serious changes to our product range: we 
will still be able to offer OEM quality products such as rubber seals, 
engine-, axle- and suspension parts at very competitive prices. The one 
thing that will change, is that there will temporarily be no more 
complementary smaller bits like clips, screws or other parts, that are 
exclusively supplied by Mercedes.


We will use the now free capacity to expand our product range to other 
Mercedes models and components not yet listed - so keep expecting the most 
of us.


http://www.dbdepot.de/index.php?nav=1lan=2;

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http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to non-authorized dealers

[Peter Frederick]

More to the point, it is no longer possible for my Indy to get lock cylinders 
or keys.  One must go to the dealer with valid ID and registration, and the 
dealer MUST keep a photocopy of the paperwork for the purchase of a lock 
cylinder or key and ID/drivers license/registration on file forever.

This is related to the problem of people buying keys to steal cars.

Peter


-Original Message-
From: David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca
Sent: Dec 7, 2010 2:09 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to 
non-authorized dealers

Yesterday I received the following notification from DB Depot in Germany (I've 
made a couple of minor corrections to their translation from German). 

I wonder if the new policy affects our friendly retailers here in the United 
States. Rusty, any comment? I notice that things are pepping up over at 
www.mbwholesaleparts.com, which probably has something to do with all of 
this...


2010-12-03
Mid-November, Daimler AG imposed an immediate ban of sales for original parts 
to non-authorized dealers, under threat of penalty in case of violation on the 
part of the official Mercedes dealers, to the point of withdrawal of the 
official dealer authorization.

In our case this meant the compulsory and abrupt ending of a trustful business 
relationship with the local Mercedes dealer that had lasted for nearly two 
decades.

In view of the sharpness and haste with which this sanction was set upon the 
world, gives an idea of the pressure under which the Daimler AG is acting 
here. Unfortunate and questionable it is however, that no official information 
is given to enlighten the background - this lets us only assume, that it might 
all have to do with the continuous issues between the Daimler AG and the US 
stock exchange supervision SEC.

Having said all this, you might finally want to know, how all this might 
affect you?

Well, actually there won't be serious changes to our product range: we will 
still be able to offer OEM quality products such as rubber seals, engine-, 
axle- and suspension parts at very competitive prices. The one thing that will 
change, is that there will temporarily be no more complementary smaller bits 
like clips, screws or other parts, that are exclusively supplied by Mercedes.

We will use the now free capacity to expand our product range to other 
Mercedes models and components not yet listed - so keep expecting the most of 
us.

http://www.dbdepot.de/index.php?nav=1lan=2;

___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to non-authorized dealers

[Allan Streib]

I have been able to buy keys from Rusty... did have to send him scans of my DL 
and registration though.

Allan

On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 08:42 -0600, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote:
 More to the point, it is no longer possible for my Indy to get lock
 cylinders or keys.  One must go to the dealer with valid ID and
 registration, and the dealer MUST keep a photocopy of the paperwork for
 the purchase of a lock cylinder or key and ID/drivers
 license/registration on file forever.
 
 This is related to the problem of people buying keys to steal cars.
 
 Peter
 

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts tonon-authorized dealers

[WILTON]

Rusty, are you saying you can't get lock cylinders and keys for us from your 
dealer contact any more?


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rusty Cullens buymbpa...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts 
tonon-authorized dealers



I called my contacts and they have heard nothing of the sort. They have not 
been able to sell TRP (theft related parts)items for some time but that is 
all.



Rusty Cullens
BuyMBparts, Inc.
www.buyMBparts.biz
www.buyEUROparts.biz
www.buyASIANparts.biz
Tel/ 1-800-741-5252
Fax/ 770-454-9745
ICQ 427542441
AIM BuyMBparts

- Original Message - 
From: David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 3:09 AM
Subject: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to 
non-authorized dealers



Yesterday I received the following notification from DB Depot in Germany 
(I've made a couple of minor corrections to their translation from 
German).


I wonder if the new policy affects our friendly retailers here in the 
United States. Rusty, any comment? I notice that things are pepping up 
over at www.mbwholesaleparts.com, which probably has something to do with 
all of this...



2010-12-03
Mid-November, Daimler AG imposed an immediate ban of sales for original 
parts to non-authorized dealers, under threat of penalty in case of 
violation on the part of the official Mercedes dealers, to the point of 
withdrawal of the official dealer authorization.


In our case this meant the compulsory and abrupt ending of a trustful 
business relationship with the local Mercedes dealer that had lasted for 
nearly two decades.


In view of the sharpness and haste with which this sanction was set upon 
the world, gives an idea of the pressure under which the Daimler AG is 
acting here. Unfortunate and questionable it is however, that no official 
information is given to enlighten the background - this lets us only 
assume, that it might all have to do with the continuous issues between 
the Daimler AG and the US stock exchange supervision SEC.


Having said all this, you might finally want to know, how all this might 
affect you?


Well, actually there won't be serious changes to our product range: we 
will still be able to offer OEM quality products such as rubber seals, 
engine-, axle- and suspension parts at very competitive prices. The one 
thing that will change, is that there will temporarily be no more 
complementary smaller bits like clips, screws or other parts, that are 
exclusively supplied by Mercedes.


We will use the now free capacity to expand our product range to other 
Mercedes models and components not yet listed - so keep expecting the 
most of us.


http://www.dbdepot.de/index.php?nav=1lan=2;

___
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http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original partstonon-authorized dealers

[Rusty Cullens]

I can for the non remote cars. I can't get the remote keys any longer.


Rusty Cullens
BuyMBparts, Inc.
www.buyMBparts.biz
www.buyEUROparts.biz
www.buyASIANparts.biz
Tel/ 1-800-741-5252
Fax/ 770-454-9745
ICQ 427542441
AIM BuyMBparts

- Original Message - 
From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original 
partstonon-authorized dealers



Rusty, are you saying you can't get lock cylinders and keys for us from 
your dealer contact any more?


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rusty Cullens buymbpa...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts 
tonon-authorized dealers



I called my contacts and they have heard nothing of the sort. They have 
not been able to sell TRP (theft related parts)items for some time but 
that is all.



Rusty Cullens
BuyMBparts, Inc.
www.buyMBparts.biz
www.buyEUROparts.biz
www.buyASIANparts.biz
Tel/ 1-800-741-5252
Fax/ 770-454-9745
ICQ 427542441
AIM BuyMBparts

- Original Message - 
From: David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 3:09 AM
Subject: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to 
non-authorized dealers



Yesterday I received the following notification from DB Depot in Germany 
(I've made a couple of minor corrections to their translation from 
German).


I wonder if the new policy affects our friendly retailers here in the 
United States. Rusty, any comment? I notice that things are pepping up 
over at www.mbwholesaleparts.com, which probably has something to do 
with all of this...



2010-12-03
Mid-November, Daimler AG imposed an immediate ban of sales for original 
parts to non-authorized dealers, under threat of penalty in case of 
violation on the part of the official Mercedes dealers, to the point of 
withdrawal of the official dealer authorization.


In our case this meant the compulsory and abrupt ending of a trustful 
business relationship with the local Mercedes dealer that had lasted for 
nearly two decades.


In view of the sharpness and haste with which this sanction was set upon 
the world, gives an idea of the pressure under which the Daimler AG is 
acting here. Unfortunate and questionable it is however, that no 
official information is given to enlighten the background - this lets us 
only assume, that it might all have to do with the continuous issues 
between the Daimler AG and the US stock exchange supervision SEC.


Having said all this, you might finally want to know, how all this might 
affect you?


Well, actually there won't be serious changes to our product range: we 
will still be able to offer OEM quality products such as rubber seals, 
engine-, axle- and suspension parts at very competitive prices. The one 
thing that will change, is that there will temporarily be no more 
complementary smaller bits like clips, screws or other parts, that are 
exclusively supplied by Mercedes.


We will use the now free capacity to expand our product range to other 
Mercedes models and components not yet listed - so keep expecting the 
most of us.


http://www.dbdepot.de/index.php?nav=1lan=2;

___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original parts to non-authorized dealers

[David Bruckmann]

In Germany, this is not restricted to keys etc. It is ANY part: headlights, 
trim pieces, whatever he gets from MB. Andreas has marked the NLA parts on the 
dbdepot.de online catalogue.

Let's hope this is a temporary stupid thing and not some global scourge devised 
by one of the idiot marketing MBAs. They have ruined the brand's current 
products, so maybe now they are bored and are moving on to ruining our ability 
to preserve the very past that they've been coasting on for twenty years.

D. 

Peter Frederick wrote:

 More to the point, it is no longer possible for my Indy to get lock cylinders 
 or keys.  One must go to the dealer with valid ID and registration, and the 
 dealer MUST keep a photocopy of the paperwork for the purchase of a lock 
 cylinder or key and ID/drivers license/registration on file forever.
 
 This is related to the problem of people buying keys to steal cars.
 
 Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original partstonon-authorized dealers

[Mitch Haley]

Franchise dealers in USA do considerable business providing parts for non dealer 
mechanics. I can't imagine that ending here. (and I can't imagine owning a car 
for which the local dealer is the only source of OE parts, especially when that 
dealer is allowed to mark those parts 2-3x official list price)


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler AG: immediate ban on sales of original partstonon-authorized dealers

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

You mean for like a 140 and newer?

On 12/7/2010 10:11 AM, Rusty Cullens wrote:
I can for the non remote cars. I can't get the remote keys any 
longer.



Rusty Cullens


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic,
 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[LarryT]

an article said [MB] workers in Alabama earn about €30 ($45)
an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.
Other premium carmakers such as BMW and Audi have been producing sports
utility vehicles and smaller models in eastern Europe and other low-cost
regions for a while

So America is now on a par with eastern Europe?

sad times...

LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: relng...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:00 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns


Daimler shift sparks union concerns
This week’s decision by Daimler to shift parts of the future production of
its best selling Mercedes C-Class sedan to the US exposes the mismatch
between large domestic footprints and global sales of many German 
industrial

companies.

Daimler said earlier this week that it would centralise German production
of the C-Class in Bremen and would start assembling the next generation of
the model in its Tuscaloosa plant in the US from 2014.

The plan was a blow to its 94-year-old Sindelfingen plant, where the
C-Class will no longer be produced, and highlighted how managers are 
looking to

expand plants in regions with low labour costs and weak currencies.

Less than 25 per cent of Daimler’s sales are generated in its home 
country,
but Daimler continues to employ about 60 per cent of its 273,000 workers 
in

Germany.

Rival carmakers and other large German industrial groups also lag behind 
in

moving production to low-cost countries. Siemens, Europe’s largest
engineering group, is one example.

“Siemens’ manufacturing and headcount are heavily weighted towards
Germany, which accounts for 17 per cent of sales but 27 per cent of 
Siemens’
production and 31 per cent of total employment,” said Andreas Willi, 
analyst at
JPMorgan. “Addressing the industrial footprint ... would be a key value 
driver”

for Siemens, Mr Willi said.

Given many companies’ lopsided production footprint, Daimler’s decision
this week sparked anxiety among German unions.

IG Metall mobilised more than 10,000 Daimler workers on Wednesday against
the move. Thanks to the weak dollar, workers in Alabama earn about €30 
($45)

an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.

Other premium carmakers such as BMW and Audi have been producing sports
utility vehicles and smaller models in eastern Europe and other low-cost
regions for a while. They have also started to spread production of their 
smallest

sedans such as the C-Class around the world. Daimler is producing the
C-Class at its South African plant and in China.

Daimler’s arch-rival BMW is producing its 3 series sedan – which is
comparable to the C-Class – mainly in Germany but also at its South 
African and

Chinese plants.

BMW does not plan to produce the model in the US because it can import it
from South Africa without suffering from the two factors that make imports 
to

the US expensive: the weak dollar and tariffs.

South Africa’s rand is pegged to the dollar and there are no trade 
barriers

between the two countries.

But BMW has also ramped up production of its roadster and sports-utility
models in the US. Norbert Reithofer, BMW’s chief executive, said: “We 
already

made this decision two years ago when we agreed to lift production in our
Spartanburg plant to 240,000 units.”

Christoph Stürmer, analyst at IHS Global Insight, said that more than
anything else, the decision showed the dire state of Daimler’s US plant. 
“The
plant in Alabama is running far below capacity so Daimler had to do 
something

about that,” he said.

Mr Stürmer said that in spite of the skewed manufacturing footprint, he 
did
not expect a wave of production shifts of the more expensive premium 
models

from Germany to low-cost countries.

“Germany has a high competency for complex products in small series, which
makes up for cost disadvantages,” he said.
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[Rich Thomas]

$90k+ a year for bolting cars together?  Kleb needs to get out of the 
unbolting business.


--R

LarryT wrote:

an article said [MB] workers in Alabama earn about €30 ($45)
an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.
Other premium carmakers such as BMW and Audi have been producing sports
utility vehicles and smaller models in eastern Europe and other low-cost
regions for a while

So America is now on a par with eastern Europe?

sad times...

LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: relng...@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:00 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns


Daimler shift sparks union concerns
This week’s decision by Daimler to shift parts of the future 
production of

its best selling Mercedes C-Class sedan to the US exposes the mismatch
between large domestic footprints and global sales of many German 
industrial

companies.

Daimler said earlier this week that it would centralise German 
production
of the C-Class in Bremen and would start assembling the next 
generation of

the model in its Tuscaloosa plant in the US from 2014.

The plan was a blow to its 94-year-old Sindelfingen plant, where the
C-Class will no longer be produced, and highlighted how managers are 
looking to

expand plants in regions with low labour costs and weak currencies.

Less than 25 per cent of Daimler’s sales are generated in its home 
country,
but Daimler continues to employ about 60 per cent of its 273,000 
workers in

Germany.

Rival carmakers and other large German industrial groups also lag 
behind in

moving production to low-cost countries. Siemens, Europe’s largest
engineering group, is one example.

“Siemens’ manufacturing and headcount are heavily weighted towards
Germany, which accounts for 17 per cent of sales but 27 per cent of 
Siemens’
production and 31 per cent of total employment,” said Andreas Willi, 
analyst at
JPMorgan. “Addressing the industrial footprint ... would be a key 
value driver”

for Siemens, Mr Willi said.

Given many companies’ lopsided production footprint, Daimler’s decision
this week sparked anxiety among German unions.

IG Metall mobilised more than 10,000 Daimler workers on Wednesday 
against
the move. Thanks to the weak dollar, workers in Alabama earn about 
€30 ($45)

an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.

Other premium carmakers such as BMW and Audi have been producing sports
utility vehicles and smaller models in eastern Europe and other low-cost
regions for a while. They have also started to spread production of 
their smallest

sedans such as the C-Class around the world. Daimler is producing the
C-Class at its South African plant and in China.

Daimler’s arch-rival BMW is producing its 3 series sedan – which is
comparable to the C-Class – mainly in Germany but also at its South 
African and

Chinese plants.

BMW does not plan to produce the model in the US because it can 
import it
from South Africa without suffering from the two factors that make 
imports to

the US expensive: the weak dollar and tariffs.

South Africa’s rand is pegged to the dollar and there are no trade 
barriers

between the two countries.

But BMW has also ramped up production of its roadster and sports-utility
models in the US. Norbert Reithofer, BMW’s chief executive, said: “We 
already
made this decision two years ago when we agreed to lift production in 
our

Spartanburg plant to 240,000 units.”

Christoph Stürmer, analyst at IHS Global Insight, said that more than
anything else, the decision showed the dire state of Daimler’s US 
plant. “The
plant in Alabama is running far below capacity so Daimler had to do 
something

about that,” he said.

Mr Stürmer said that in spite of the skewed manufacturing footprint, 
he did
not expect a wave of production shifts of the more expensive premium 
models

from Germany to low-cost countries.

“Germany has a high competency for complex products in small series, 
which

makes up for cost disadvantages,” he said.
___
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[Mitch Haley]

LarryT wrote:

an article said [MB] workers in Alabama earn about €30 ($45)
an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.


Wow. Even if that includes benefits and payroll taxes, $90k a year just doesn't 
seem reasonable. Makes the old GM look like a low cost employer.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[OK Don]

But it looks like a deal compared to the $153k that German workers get ---

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 LarryT wrote:

 an article said [MB] workers in Alabama earn about €30 ($45)
 an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.


 Wow. Even if that includes benefits and payroll taxes, $90k a year just
 doesn't seem reasonable. Makes the old GM look like a low cost employer.

 Mitch.



 --
 OK Don
 CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
 distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
 others.
 The Devil's Dictionary
 Ambrose Bierce


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[Mitch Haley]

OK Don wrote:

But it looks like a deal compared to the $153k that German workers get ---



Does a German workyear have 2000 hours in it (including paid holidays)?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[Craig McCluskey]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:59:40 -0500 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 OK Don wrote:
  But it looks like a deal compared to the $153k that German workers get
  ---
  
 
 Does a German workyear have 2000 hours in it (including paid holidays)?

I can't say, but I understand they do have a lot of holidays.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[LarryT]

Doesn't Germany take the month of August off as Holiday like the rest of 
Europe?


LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:10 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns


On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:59:40 -0500 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:


OK Don wrote:
 But it looks like a deal compared to the $153k that German workers get
 ---


Does a German workyear have 2000 hours in it (including paid holidays)?


I can't say, but I understand they do have a lot of holidays.


Craig

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[MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[RELNGSON]

Daimler shift sparks union concerns
 This week’s decision by Daimler to shift parts of the future production of 
its best selling Mercedes C-Class sedan to the US exposes the mismatch 
between large domestic footprints and global sales of many German industrial 
companies.

Daimler said earlier this week that it would centralise German production 
of the C-Class in Bremen and would start assembling the next generation of 
the model in its Tuscaloosa plant in the US from 2014.

The plan was a blow to its 94-year-old Sindelfingen plant, where the 
C-Class will no longer be produced, and highlighted how managers are looking to 
expand plants in regions with low labour costs and weak currencies.

Less than 25 per cent of Daimler’s sales are generated in its home country, 
but Daimler continues to employ about 60 per cent of its 273,000 workers in 
Germany.

Rival carmakers and other large German industrial groups also lag behind in 
moving production to low-cost countries. Siemens, Europe’s largest 
engineering group, is one example.

“Siemens’ manufacturing and headcount are heavily weighted towards 
Germany, which accounts for 17 per cent of sales but 27 per cent of Siemens’ 
production and 31 per cent of total employment,” said Andreas Willi, analyst at 
JPMorgan. “Addressing the industrial footprint ... would be a key value driver”
 for Siemens, Mr Willi said.

Given many companies’ lopsided production footprint, Daimler’s decision 
this week sparked anxiety among German unions.

IG Metall mobilised more than 10,000 Daimler workers on Wednesday against 
the move. Thanks to the weak dollar, workers in Alabama earn about €30 ($45) 
an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.

Other premium carmakers such as BMW and Audi have been producing sports 
utility vehicles and smaller models in eastern Europe and other low-cost 
regions for a while. They have also started to spread production of their 
smallest 
sedans such as the C-Class around the world. Daimler is producing the 
C-Class at its South African plant and in China.

Daimler’s arch-rival BMW is producing its 3 series sedan – which is 
comparable to the C-Class – mainly in Germany but also at its South African and 
Chinese plants.

BMW does not plan to produce the model in the US because it can import it 
from South Africa without suffering from the two factors that make imports to 
the US expensive: the weak dollar and tariffs.

South Africa’s rand is pegged to the dollar and there are no trade barriers 
between the two countries.

But BMW has also ramped up production of its roadster and sports-utility 
models in the US. Norbert Reithofer, BMW’s chief executive, said: “We already 
made this decision two years ago when we agreed to lift production in our 
Spartanburg plant to 240,000 units.”

Christoph Stürmer, analyst at IHS Global Insight, said that more than 
anything else, the decision showed the dire state of Daimler’s US plant. “The 
plant in Alabama is running far below capacity so Daimler had to do something 
about that,” he said.

Mr Stürmer said that in spite of the skewed manufacturing footprint, he did 
not expect a wave of production shifts of the more expensive premium models 
from Germany to low-cost countries.

“Germany has a high competency for complex products in small series, which 
makes up for cost disadvantages,” he said.
___
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler shift sparks union concerns

[Rich Thomas]

Yesterday's WSJ had an article about this, the union members in 
Deutscheland were not happy about this.


We went on a boat ride around Charleston last week, cruised past the 
freight docks.  There was a big RORO there loading beemers, 3 or 4 
warehouses there full of cars.  They build them in SC and ship them to 
Europe and everywhere else.  Seem to be keeping fairly busy.


--R

relng...@aol.com wrote:

Daimler shift sparks union concerns
 This week’s decision by Daimler to shift parts of the future production of 
its best selling Mercedes C-Class sedan to the US exposes the mismatch 
between large domestic footprints and global sales of many German industrial 
companies.


Daimler said earlier this week that it would centralise German production 
of the C-Class in Bremen and would start assembling the next generation of 
the model in its Tuscaloosa plant in the US from 2014.


The plan was a blow to its 94-year-old Sindelfingen plant, where the 
C-Class will no longer be produced, and highlighted how managers are looking to 
expand plants in regions with low labour costs and weak currencies.


Less than 25 per cent of Daimler’s sales are generated in its home country, 
but Daimler continues to employ about 60 per cent of its 273,000 workers in 
Germany.


Rival carmakers and other large German industrial groups also lag behind in 
moving production to low-cost countries. Siemens, Europe’s largest 
engineering group, is one example.


“Siemens’ manufacturing and headcount are heavily weighted towards 
Germany, which accounts for 17 per cent of sales but 27 per cent of Siemens’ 
production and 31 per cent of total employment,” said Andreas Willi, analyst at 
JPMorgan. “Addressing the industrial footprint ... would be a key value driver”

 for Siemens, Mr Willi said.

Given many companies’ lopsided production footprint, Daimler’s decision 
this week sparked anxiety among German unions.


IG Metall mobilised more than 10,000 Daimler workers on Wednesday against 
the move. Thanks to the weak dollar, workers in Alabama earn about €30 ($45) 
an hour, which compares with about €50 in Germany.


Other premium carmakers such as BMW and Audi have been producing sports 
utility vehicles and smaller models in eastern Europe and other low-cost 
regions for a while. They have also started to spread production of their smallest 
sedans such as the C-Class around the world. Daimler is producing the 
C-Class at its South African plant and in China.


Daimler’s arch-rival BMW is producing its 3 series sedan – which is 
comparable to the C-Class – mainly in Germany but also at its South African and 
Chinese plants.


BMW does not plan to produce the model in the US because it can import it 
from South Africa without suffering from the two factors that make imports to 
the US expensive: the weak dollar and tariffs.


South Africa’s rand is pegged to the dollar and there are no trade barriers 
between the two countries.


But BMW has also ramped up production of its roadster and sports-utility 
models in the US. Norbert Reithofer, BMW’s chief executive, said: “We already 
made this decision two years ago when we agreed to lift production in our 
Spartanburg plant to 240,000 units.”


Christoph Stürmer, analyst at IHS Global Insight, said that more than 
anything else, the decision showed the dire state of Daimler’s US plant. “The 
plant in Alabama is running far below capacity so Daimler had to do something 
about that,” he said.


Mr Stürmer said that in spite of the skewed manufacturing footprint, he did 
not expect a wave of production shifts of the more expensive premium models 
from Germany to low-cost countries.


“Germany has a high competency for complex products in small series, which 
makes up for cost disadvantages,” he said.

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler V250

[Frederick W Moir]

Gerry, and Cohorts.
Daimler SP250 is the car that I most drooled over when I was 
in the UK. The Lady next door had an A.C Cobra and an SP. I thought 
she was too old to drive such cars, she may have been 40, not old 
from my present point of view! I owned a Mini and wanted, lusted 
after, a real sports car. A V8 sexy/slippery looking sports car for me!

Jeeez, I'm getting old!
Fred Moir
Lynn MA

At 11:43 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote:
Saw a Daimler V250 in perfect condition at hardware store parking 
lot today if anyones interested.  Didn't get a chance to talk to 
owner.  Custom tag read NOTAJAG.  It looked like a Jag from a 
distance.  Didn't pull up anything specific about it on Google.

Gerry



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[MBZ] Daimler 250 V8

[tom tomscat]

  Hi Fred and Gerry,
I believe the car you saw was the Daimler 250 V8, basically a tarted up version 
of the Jaguar Mark II (fancier fluting on the chrome, etc).  
That car had the same Hemi V8 that Daimler put in the SP250.  Jaguar bought 
Daimler in the early 60's, and eventually deep-sixed 
that V8 rather than have it compete with the vaunted Jaguar 6.  Jag continued 
to use the Daimler badge for its premier models through the 80's,
eventually morphing into the Van Den Plas and later the Sovereign (Majestic 
in the UK), I believe.  It continued to give these models the highest level of 
trim, 
including the aforementioned distinctive fluted chrome on the 'bonnet' and the 
'boot'.  The famous Jaguar 5.2L V12 appeared in the Jaguar Daimler 
models as the Daimler Double Six. 
That Daimler Hemi that you saw is a very rare bird in the US.  Was it for sale, 
by any chance?  :)

Google: Daimler 250 V8, instead of V250.
http://www.daimler-v8.co.uk/history.htm

Tom Schuch
1975 300D
SE Conn USA


Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler V250
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
 
   Daimler SP250 is the car that I most drooled over when I was 
in the UK. The Lady next door had an A.C Cobra and an SP. I thought 
she was too old to drive such cars, she may have been 40, not old 
from my present point of view! I owned a Mini and wanted, lusted 
after, a real sports car. A V8 sexy/slippery looking sports car for me!
Jeeez, I'm getting old!
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
 
At 11:43 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote:
Saw a Daimler V250 in perfect condition at hardware store parking 
lot today if anyones interested.  Didn't get a chance to talk to 
owner.  Custom tag read NOTAJAG.  It looked like a Jag from a 
distance.  Didn't pull up anything specific about it on Google.
Gerry
_
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler V250

[OK Don]

We had a Daimler SP250 at the garage I worked in during college - it
had a cracked dent in the drivers door, and a freeze induced crack in
the intake manifold. I didn't have the cash - another employee bought
it, fixed it up, and doubled his money in a month.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Gerry, and Cohorts.
Daimler SP250 is the car that I most drooled over when I was in the
 UK. The Lady next door had an A.C Cobra and an SP. I thought she was too old
 to drive such cars, she may have been 40, not old from my present point of
 view! I owned a Mini and wanted, lusted after, a real sports car. A V8
 sexy/slippery looking sports car for me!
 Jeeez, I'm getting old!
 Fred Moir
 Lynn MA

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and
mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.  - Ernest Hemingway
'90 300D (Rattled),  '92 300D (Saber), ''97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go)

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[MBZ] Daimler V250

[archer]

Saw a Daimler V250 in perfect condition at hardware store parking lot today 
if anyones interested.  Didn't get a chance to talk to owner.  Custom tag 
read NOTAJAG.  It looked like a Jag from a distance.  Didn't pull up 
anything specific about it on Google.
Gerry 



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[MBZ] Daimler discusses sale of Chrysler stake/no lint content

[RELNGSON]

GERMANY: Daimler discusses sale of Chrysler stake

Daimler has confirmed that it is in talks with Cerberus to sell its 19.9% 
stake in former partner Chrysler. In a short official statement the company 
said:

'Daimler confirms that the company is in discussions with Cerberus Capital 
Management regarding the redemption of its remaining 19.9% stake in Chrysler 
LLC.' Daimler's statement follows an earlier statement from Cerberus that it 
had 
approached Daimler about redemption of the stake. DaimlerChrysler, formed in 
1998, was the biggest industrial merger of all time, but the company broke up 
in May 2007 when private equity firm Cerberus purchased 80.1% of Chrysler. 
Daimler AG hung on to a 19.9% stake in the company. Daimler said in July the 
book 
value of its stake was EUR171m, but the likely market value of the stock it 
holds is unclear.

Chrysler this week surprised many with it's unveiling of three electric car 
prototypes in the US. However, the company is said to be in deep financial 
trouble on the back of lower US sales and a product range lacking the smaller 
and 
more fuel efficient vehicles that American consumers are turning to.

Legacy technology ties between the two firms are not expected to be affected 
by a Daimler stake sale, at least for the foreseeable future. Cerberus said 
that it expected all existing industrial relationships between Daimler and 
Chrysler to continue. It's unclear at this stage why the sale of Daimler's 
stake is 
being discussed now. Some analysts have speculated that Cerberus may be 
seeking 100% ownership prior to a sale. Daimler meanwhile, may be seeking to 
cut 
its Chrysler losses and make maximum use of available resources and liquidity 
in 
the face of ongoing cost pressures and uncertain demand prospects.




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Re: [MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[Rich Thomas]

I am outraged!  Outraged I tell you!

--R

OK Don wrote:
 Do we care?

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm

   

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[MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[OK Don]

Do we care?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[Loren Faeth]

I think it should return to D-B, but they won't ask me.  Daimler is a 
british car.   Ya, I know, the German no-name company, formerly known 
as prince, er, Daimler Chrysler bought the rights to use Daimler, but 
the company still should be D-B.


Then again maybe the no-name company should go back to the name of 
prince.  Prince was our German shepherd when I was a kid.  As long as 
the company does not want to be associated with Mercedes Benz, why 
not run from Daimler too?

What outrages ME is the hoopla about being able to buy all kinds of 
Bluetec Diesel cars and vans in the US and then nothing available 
here, but listers report sightings in the rest of the world!

Loren
All my cars were made by Daimler-Benz, back when they gave a rip.

At 08:42 AM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
I am outraged!  Outraged I tell you!

--R

OK Don wrote:
  Do we care?
 
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm
 
 

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[archer]

From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Do we care?
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm

Don't think I've ever seen anyone with a mustache like Benz has.  How did he 
keep it out his beer stein?  Wonder if anyone on the list could grow one 
like that?
Gerry 


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[Loren Faeth]

Haven't you heard of a mustache cup?  They were popular in the 1890s 
or so, when mustaches of that sort were in style.  I'm guessing the 
krauts had mustache steins.

At 12:22 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Do we care?
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm

Don't think I've ever seen anyone with a mustache like Benz has.  How did he
keep it out his beer stein?  Wonder if anyone on the list could grow one
like that?
Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[archer]

I forgot about mustache cups.  I'd like to see one of us grow a Benz 
mustache and post the picture.
Gerry
-

 Haven't you heard of a mustache cup?  They were popular in the 1890s
 or so, when mustaches of that sort were in style.  I'm guessing the
 krauts had mustache steins.

 At 12:22 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Do we care?
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm

Don't think I've ever seen anyone with a mustache like Benz has.  How did 
he
keep it out his beer stein?  Wonder if anyone on the list could grow one
like that?
Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler vs. Benz --

[Redghost]

I have one.  Use it as often as I do not want too feel like straining  
stuff through the baleen

clay

On 4 Oct 2007, at 12:48, Loren Faeth wrote:

 Haven't you heard of a mustache cup?  They were popular in the 1890s
 or so, when mustaches of that sort were in style.  I'm guessing the
 krauts had mustache steins.

 At 12:22 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
 From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Do we care?
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7027460.stm
 
 Don't think I've ever seen anyone with a mustache like Benz has.   
 How did he
 keep it out his beer stein?  Wonder if anyone on the list could  
 grow one
 like that?
 Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel - MB commercial engines

[Don Teresa Merriman]

Lets see, Cummings is a English corporation, that would be those small
islands off the coast of France, and the Cummings engines in the Dodge stuff
is made by frogs in France. Check out the plate on the side of the engine.
Most of the big castings used in the large engines are cast in Spain, loose
emission rules.

Interesting old news, Cummings ran a diesel powered car in a front engine
car at Indy. I think this was back in the 60´s and they layed the engine on
it´s side. Car actually did real well in that one race.
DT

On 9/21/05, Fmiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 rumor has it that Kevin wrote:

  On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 11:58:46PM -0500, Luther Gulseth wrote:
   HELL NO. The damn MB engines are made by Detroit. Cummins makes a MUCH
   better product. MB makes a (well, this is questionable) kick ass car
   engine, but that's what's made in the Mother Land.
 
  Does anyone know how the MB engines in the commercial trucks have been
  fairing? I'm curious if they hold their own to what else is out there,
  or if they're just rebadged detroits in disguise (for whatever that's
 worth).

 From what I've heard, the engines for the class 7 and class 8 trucks are
 quite good - but they are not made by one of the US 3 (Cummins,
 Caterpiller, Detroit) and so it's been a hard sell.

 I've only talked to a couple folks who have driven them. They had no
 complaints.

 They fellows I've talked to that have the Sprinters sure like the MB
 engine in those!

 Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel - MB commercial engines

[Christopher McCann]

Cummins ran that diesel WAY b4 the sixties...like the
30's. It was the first car to finish without making
one pit stop...so says an MB history book I read.

Christtopher

--- Don  Teresa Merriman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Lets see, Cummings is a English corporation, that
 would be those small
 islands off the coast of France, and the Cummings
 engines in the Dodge stuff
 is made by frogs in France. Check out the plate on
 the side of the engine.
 Most of the big castings used in the large engines
 are cast in Spain, loose
 emission rules.
 
 Interesting old news, Cummings ran a diesel powered
 car in a front engine
 car at Indy. I think this was back in the 60´s and
 they layed the engine on
 it´s side. Car actually did real well in that one
 race.
 DT
 
 On 9/21/05, Fmiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  rumor has it that Kevin wrote:
 
   On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 11:58:46PM -0500, Luther
 Gulseth wrote:
HELL NO. The damn MB engines are made by
 Detroit. Cummins makes a MUCH
better product. MB makes a (well, this is
 questionable) kick ass car
engine, but that's what's made in the Mother
 Land.
  
   Does anyone know how the MB engines in the
 commercial trucks have been
   fairing? I'm curious if they hold their own to
 what else is out there,
   or if they're just rebadged detroits in disguise
 (for whatever that's
  worth).
 
  From what I've heard, the engines for the class 7
 and class 8 trucks are
  quite good - but they are not made by one of the
 US 3 (Cummins,
  Caterpiller, Detroit) and so it's been a hard
 sell.
 
  I've only talked to a couple folks who have driven
 them. They had no
  complaints.
 
  They fellows I've talked to that have the
 Sprinters sure like the MB
  engine in those!
 
  Philip
 
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 Property Administration
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Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri
-1985 300SD, 209K miles, Wulf 
(http://www.pictureblogger.com/My-1985-Mercedes-Benz-300SD)
-1976 240D, ManyK miles,  AKP-Wagen (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen 
= Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle)
-1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 100K miles, The Van



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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel - MB commercial engines

[Loren Faeth]

If we are talking about the liberty, the last i knew, it was the italian 
diesel, same as chrysler has been using in europe for minivans, cherokees 
and the like for years.


At 05:31 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote:

The diesel in the Jeep is a Detriot 18:1 compression ratio american
made clatterbox.  Loud, requires a 6 speed auto tranny, and has a HUGE
turbo, long stroke direct injection.

They never learn, eh?

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel - MB commercial engines

[Loren Faeth]

  BZZT!

Clessie Cummins was as American as Apple Pie, and the company he started is 
in Indiana, as it has always been.  Excerpt from 
cummins.com:  Headquartered in Columbus, Indiana, (USA) Cummins serves 
customers in more than 160 countries and territories through its network of 
550 Company-owned and independent distributor locations


Cummins first raced a Diesel at Indy in the 20s.  Check it out

A good book is My days with the Diesel by Clessie Cummins.

They may make pieces abroad, and they most likely make whole engines 
abroad, but Cummins is an American company.


Buy a John Deere, and you may get an engine made in France, Waterloo, IA or 
Japan.  In '74 my Dad bought a Deere assembled in Mannheim, with a french 
engine, a British (yuk) injection system and US tires.


From what I understand, MB trucks outside the US use MB OM series 
engines.  MBUSA trucks (sterling and Freightshaker)  probably have options 
for any of the US-3 as well as some MB  OM series engines for 
Freightliners.  I know some Freightshakers have powered by Mercedes Benz 
on some of the hoods.To my knowledge, all the OM engines are made by 
Mercedes Benz, probably in Europe, traditionally in Germany.   They have 
been reluctant to let engine production occur outside of Germany, but maybe 
that changed with the acquisition of Freightliner.The L1113, L1116 and 
so forth MB medium duties used OM352 and other OM engines made in 
Germany.  I know of an experimental MB OM truck engine that was put in 
service in a US chassis in 1973 and ran a million+ miles and was good as 
new when the chassis was retired.  The engine was experimental for the US 
long haul market, but was a production v-8.  They wanted to see how it 
stood up to the long haul market.


I think there is some misunderstanding about what market segment the 
original question was addressing.  I am not sure either.  Sprinter is one 
thing, the L series trucks from Brazil in the 80s is another, and the US 
(sterling/Freightshaker) is another, and the MB trucks for the rest of the 
world is another.


Luther, are you saying MB OM series engines are being manufactured by 
Detroit Diesel under contract/license? Could be, but it is news to 
me.  Makes sense though, for the number of freightshakers they sell.  Which 
OM numbers are made in the US?


Anyone know the location of the plant the Sprinters are made in?

At 06:37 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote:
Lets see, Cummings is a English corporation, that would be those small 
islands off the coast of France, and the Cummings engines in the Dodge 
stuff is made by frogs in France. Check out the plate on the side of the 
engine. Most of the big castings used in the large engines are cast in 
Spain, loose emission rules.


Interesting old news, Cummings ran a diesel powered car in a front engine 
car at Indy. I think this was back in the 60´s and they layed the engine 
on it´s side. Car actually did real well in that one race.

DT

On 9/21/05, Fmiser mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
rumor has it that Kevin wrote:

 On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 11:58:46PM -0500, Luther Gulseth wrote:
  HELL NO.  The damn MB engines are made by Detroit.  Cummins makes a MUCH
  better product.  MB makes a (well, this is questionable) kick ass car
  engine, but that's what's made in the Mother Land.

 Does anyone know how the MB engines in the commercial trucks have been
 fairing? I'm curious if they hold their own to what else is out there,
 or if they're just rebadged detroits in disguise (for whatever that's 
worth).


From what I've heard, the engines for the class 7 and class 8 trucks are
quite good - but they are not made by one of the US 3 (Cummins,
Caterpiller, Detroit) and so it's been a hard sell.

I've only talked to a couple folks who have driven them. They had no
complaints.

They fellows I've talked to that have the Sprinters sure like the MB
engine in those!

  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel - MB commercial engines

[Fmiser]

rumor has it that Kevin wrote:

 On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 11:58:46PM -0500, Luther Gulseth wrote:
  HELL NO.  The damn MB engines are made by Detroit.  Cummins makes a MUCH  
  better product.  MB makes a (well, this is questionable) kick ass car  
  engine, but that's what's made in the Mother Land.
 
 Does anyone know how the MB engines in the commercial trucks have been
 fairing? I'm curious if they hold their own to what else is out there,
 or if they're just rebadged detroits in disguise (for whatever that's worth).

From what I've heard, the engines for the class 7 and class 8 trucks are
quite good - but they are not made by one of the US 3 (Cummins,
Caterpiller, Detroit) and so it's been a hard sell.

I've only talked to a couple folks who have driven them. They had no
complaints.

They fellows I've talked to that have the Sprinters sure like the MB
engine in those!

  Philip

Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel - MB commercial engines

[Peter Frederick]

The diesel in the Jeep is a Detriot 18:1 compression ratio american 
made clatterbox.  Loud, requires a 6 speed auto tranny, and has a HUGE 
turbo, long stroke direct injection.


They never learn, eh?

Peter

Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel hybrid prediction for US

[TimothyPilgrim]

When looking for a new vehicle, I test drove a Liberty auto trans and
really liked it. But it was only an around-the-block thing on city
streets. The only drawback was the lack of hidden storage space, but
that's a minor point. I was looking at the Renegade 'cause I liked the
styling.

Tim
1982 300TD Moby

On 9/14/05, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 I don't really know how long they've been out, Since 2000-01 maybe? My
 parents have had 3, the first was the 6cyl with a 5spd which I really liked,
 the shifter had a great feel. That one got totaled by a drunken idiot in a
 Subaru. It had maybe 25k on it and was fine. Worst thing that had ever
 happened was my mother backed into a tree and broke a taillight lens. Dad's
 Chevy Tracker got totalled in that accident too so they bought 2 new
 Libertys. Both v6 auto trans. I don't like the auto as much but I'm a big
 fan of manual trans so its not that theres anything in particular wrong with
 the auto, it really seems fine.
 Dad LOVES his, he's a land surveyor and takes it out into the bush pretty
 often, says its more vehicle than the 4cyl Tracker (duh!). I thought the
 limited slip in the Liberty was a bit slippier than the Tracker but Dad
 doesn't seem to mind. In his old age he's really liking the auto. His has
 about 20k on it now. My mother's has about 15k, neither have had any issues
 at all. 2 oil changes each one done free by the dealership and thats it.
 They're both very happy which they should be, these are highend Liberties. I
 think they paid something like $20k apiece. 
 
 -Curt 
 
 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:57:15 -0400
 From: Steve MacSween [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel  hybrid prediction for US
 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
 
 Curt, how old are their Libertys, and how have they stood up in 
 general?
 
 I ask as they got generally ok reviews, and over the last year they 
 have
 started pushing them hard around here (especially given what they were
 gouging out of people for them, when they first gave out).
 
 For about four days in August you could have one for $119 (Cdn!) a 
 month,
 IIRC 2.5 yr lease, about $1000 down. I almost dumped my coffee all over 
 the
 newspaper when I saw that. It was for a low-spec model, but not
 base-never-seen-in-captivity material.
 
 Man, they must have some scary inventory numbers. I call that raw 
 panic.
 
 Mac 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel hybrid prediction for US market

[Russ Maki]

Royce Engler wrote:


It was my understanding that DC built the PT Cruiser as a delivery vehicle
(truck) in the European market, showed it at an auto show and the Americans
demanded that they sell it over here.  They couldn't keep up with demand for
the first couple of yearsOTOH, it is just a Neon with a different
body...

Royce Engler
1985 300TD Turbo 265K

 

No, it was a concept car before it went into production. I remember 
seeing it on a turntable at the Chicago Auto Show.


Russ Maki

Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel hybrid prediction for US market

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

yea, I thought they were supposed to put a MB engine in it.  Makes no 
sense sincemb had plenty of diesel engines.  In fact, I think its about 
time to start putting MB truck engines in the rams.


Peter Frederick wrote:

The new Liberty diesel is, you guessed it, a Detroit 16:1 four banger 
with a monster turbocharger, shakes like crazy, rattles like it has 
ball bearings loose in the combustion chambers, and gets all of 21 mpg 
-- a recipe for lack of sales if I ever saw one.


What happened to the five cylinder turbo 605?

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Daimler Chrysler diesel hybrid prediction for US market

[John M McIntosh]

AH, that explains it, I was wondering because Consumer Reports talked  
about how that
engine in real world conditions got 50% less MPG than EPA numbers. I  
couldn't understand
if it was a CDI MB engine why the numbers could be so skewed/wrong/ 
deceitful.


Lets see
VM Motori, which is owned in part by Detroit Diesel, a  
DaimlerChrysler company, is the manufacturer of the engine.


The engine produces 160 horsepower and gets an estimated fuel  
economy of 22 miles city and 27 miles highway.


On 13-Sep-05, at 5:53 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:


The new Liberty diesel is, you guessed it, a Detroit 16:1 four banger
with a monster turbocharger, shakes like crazy, rattles like it has
ball bearings loose in the combustion chambers, and gets all of 21 mpg
-- a recipe for lack of sales if I ever saw one.

What happened to the five cylinder turbo 605?

Peter


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