; From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Meade
> Dillon via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2018 7:18 AM
> To: Mercedes
> Cc: Meade Dillon
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
>
> Thanks Scott, superheat and how to diagnose
> Scott wrote:
> In simple terms, ...
> If the superheat is too high some of the evaporator is being
> wasted (filled with gas) when it could holding liquid that would
> provide more cooling.
You are correct that if the superheat is too high the capacity for
cooling goes down - but to keep the
Also not as bad as having to take the whole
dash out. I still have nightmares about that one.
MG
Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
Yes, most of the face of the evap is right there, I think. I'll bet that
I'll need a fin comb on a stick or something so I can get all the big
solids out. It
Thanks Scott, superheat and how to diagnose a system with that info is not
easy for me to figure out, I need to study a bit.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:20 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> In simple terms, the TXV regulates superheat,
Yes, most of the face of the evap is right there, I think. I'll bet that
I'll need a fin comb on a stick or something so I can get all the big
solids out. It will probably be awkward, maybe not as bad as under-dash
yoga.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:11 PM MG via
In simple terms, the TXV regulates superheat, which is the temperature rise
(above boiling) of the refrigerant gas as it exits the evaporator. Upstream of
the TXV, you want a solid column of (high pressure) liquid refrigerant (from
the condenser) that is cool enough that there's no chance of
Enough room to clean it somehow?
MG
Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
No air filter, so a crudded-up evap is definitely a possibility. I think
Rich has one of those cameras, but I can get access to the dirty side by
removing all the plastic cowling / drains and the mono-wiper, and then the
No air filter, so a crudded-up evap is definitely a possibility. I think
Rich has one of those cameras, but I can get access to the dirty side by
removing all the plastic cowling / drains and the mono-wiper, and then the
blower motor and its housing. Just an hour or less to get to the front of
Max does that car have a cabin air filter?
When changed last? Another thought is can you
get hold of a endoscopy type camera to take a
look at the condition of the evaporator? On
my W123 when I took it out the bottom half of
it was all crudded up between the fins with
dirt and hair ETC.
That's an option. The bigger / better condenser might mean some field
engineering work in order to make it fit, and the expense of purchasing the
thing, so I'm not too keen on going down that road. However, a bigger /
better condenser would definitely improve system performance.
Right now I'm
After all that, try the replacement condensor Dan put in his SDL. Dan
sez it makes the R134 work like a real R12 system.
Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
This school year, I'm pressed into duty as after-school taxi driver for my
daughter, which means I have the joy of sitting in the car line
That would make more sense to me since the
sedan is smaller inside so wouldn't need as
much cooling.
Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
Checked the 4S website [ http://www.4s.com/en/ ], they only list the 2 ton
for my '87 wagon, and the 1.5 ton for my '95 sedan.
-
Max
Charleston SC
I'll download that and watch it. Thanks max.
Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
Here's a nice video explaining some basic diagnosis of auto HVAC using
temperature readings only.
https://youtu.be/wF37ihNBXq8
I should get the temperature probe for my Fluke meter.
-
Max
Charleston SC
Thanks Max, I looked at them and then looked
up the one for my 83 300TD and it lists as 2
ton with 6.3 super heat. interesting. I think
you might go ahead and try the 2 ton one in
the whale. It should fit and might work
better then the smaller one since both are
listed for the E300. Would
Here's a nice video explaining some basic diagnosis of auto HVAC using
temperature readings only.
https://youtu.be/wF37ihNBXq8
I should get the temperature probe for my Fluke meter.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 10:06 AM Meade Dillon wrote:
> Checked the 4S website
Checked the 4S website [ http://www.4s.com/en/ ], they only list the 2 ton
for my '87 wagon, and the 1.5 ton for my '95 sedan.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:38 AM Meade Dillon wrote:
> Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are
> from
Thanks Manfred, I found them on RockAuto, listed for my '95 E300, both are
from 4 Seasons. I've ordered one of each.
The RockAuto 4 Seasons TXV for my '87 300TD is listed as just the 1.5 ton.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:31 AM MG via Mercedes
wrote:
> From what
From what I remember reading one time the
TXV comes right before the evaporator and
limits the amount of freon going into the
evaporator.
The TXV has a diaphragm valve on the top of
the body that remains in the ambient air
under the dash. The rest of the body should
be encased in a foam
What's the difference between an expansion valve that is Tonnage = 2.0 and
Superheat = 5.5, vs expansion valve with Tonnage = 1.5 and Superheat = 11?
According to what I've read, MB did not require the expansion valve to be
changed when converting from R12 to R134A because the pressure curves are
Yes I do have both 123 and 126 and they both
have the monovalve but I was thinking of your
car with the weird AC problem. Though I see
that you have that blocked off so that isn't it.
I didn't know they still made the regular ES.
I just ordered a case of the industrial to
have some on hand,
Expansion valve question: Anyone have an opinion on using an expansion
valve made for R134 vs valve made for R12?
Reading up on Jim's collected wisdom, it would seem that expansion valves
(aka TXV = thermostatic expansion valve) need to be matched to the
refrigerant. The propane / isobutane
Unfortunately no insert / kit is made for the 124 cars, I think only 123
and 126 cars have kits?
Way down on my"'round tuit" list is experimenting with backfitting a 123 or
126 monovalve to The White Whale, I think I've got a used 126 monovalve
somewhere in my garage...
-
Max
White Whale monovalve hose has been clamped off during the AC season for
several years in a row now. I haven't had time to address that, probably
need to just buy a new monovalve and install that and move on.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:49 PM Scott Ritchey via
Craig,
I don't think so, looking at this:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/refrigerants-d_902.html
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:57 PM Craig via Mercedes
wrote:
>
> Isn't there an "R" number for the propane/isobutane mixture?
>
>
Scott - I've got a non-contact thermometer, I'll see what readings I can
get for the list. Not sure when my next car work day will be, hopefully
this weekend.
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 2:12 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Going
Manfred - which car? I think you've got a 123 and a 126 in your fleet?
Scott - Just ordered the "Industrial" ES12, they also offer "regular". I'm
not sure what the difference is, their instructions say that the industrial
version can be added directly into an evacuated system, while the regular
>
> Isn't there an "R" number for the propane/isobutane mixture?
Not for the mix, so far as I know. But propane is R290, and isobutane is
R600A.
-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or
t; Cc: clay monroe
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
>
> Getting one of those dang monovalve things out is a PITA! I yanked one at PnP
> the other day. Did they really need to make it so complex to access in a
> w126?
>
> The SDL is having HVAC issues wh
2018 1:58 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: MG
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
>
> Yes and it works quite well. 42 to 45 out of the center vents with outside
> temp
> at 92 going down the road. In town stop and go only about 50 to 60 with the
> radiat
Getting one of those dang monovalve things out is a PITA! I yanked one at PnP
the other day. Did they really need to make it so complex to access in a w126?
The SDL is having HVAC issues where it will blast very cold AC for many
minutes, then open a portal to HELL for a bit, before going back
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:48:21 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
wrote:
> This is a definite possibility. Happened to my SD when mono valve
> failed. Heater will always overwhelm AC. Someone put a manual valve
> in the heater hose on my 300TD for that reason (always closed in
> summer).
So,
nz.com] On Behalf Of MG
> via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:58 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: MG
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] White Whale Plan of Attack: Weak AC
>
> does that have the same type of heater valve as the w123? If so could that be
> bad?
>
&g
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 14:11:27 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
wrote:
> Testo manifolds are good too. Fieldpiece has a nicer controls and
> displays (IMO) but Testo units are more compact and some have Bluetooth
> for remote temp sensors and smart phone interface.
>
> I need to check but I
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:34:47 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
wrote:
> > Can your compressor economically compress R410a to the higher
> > pressures it requires?
>
> NO. That's why I'd need a new condenser unit, actually a heat
> pump.
Oh. When you said,
> I need to replace the coil
Testo manifolds are good too. Fieldpiece has a nicer controls and displays
(IMO) but Testo units are more compact and some have Bluetooth for remote temp
sensors and smart phone interface.
I need to check but I doubt these units have pressure-temp curves for
Envirosafe.
Going back to the
does that have the same type of heater valve
as the w123? If so could that be bad?
MG
Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
Here's another weird data point that may be a clue. After sitting at idle
for about 30 minutes I finally get my daughter in the car / buckled up and
then back out onto
Yes and it works quite well. 42 to 45 out of
the center vents with outside temp at 92
going down the road. In town stop and go only
about 50 to 60 with the radiator fan going
all the time and seeing outside front bumper
temps running up to 98 and sometimes above.
MG
Scott Ritchey via
I believe Fieldpiece is the industry standard for pros.
Anybody who really cares should probably be using a Fieldpiece 360 or 460 for
full time professional work. (I haven't seen one yet, but that's what I think
they SHOULD be using if they're going to charge me $100 to come out to my house)
Here's another weird data point that may be a clue. After sitting at idle
for about 30 minutes I finally get my daughter in the car / buckled up and
then back out onto surface streets so the engine speed can climb a bit to
2500 RPM or more, for the short accelerations between shift points.
Vent
> Can your compressor economically compress R410a to the higher pressures it
> requires?
NO. That's why I'd need a new condenser unit, actually a heat pump.
>
>
> Please explain how this "digital manifold" works.
>
It's like a regular manifold (with round gauges) and three
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 01:06:56 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
wrote:
> I need to replace the coil unit and probably should replace the
> condenser to upgrade to R410a at the same time; but that can wait for
> cooler weather.
Can your compressor economically compress R410a to the higher
Does envirosafe make only one refrigerant for cars now? Just wondering in case
I put the 300SD back in the rotation.
By the way, my home heat pump (13 year old R22 unit) developed a leak in the
evaporator coil. I added a can of envirosafe leak stop last winter, which
didn't help much. So
I think you're correct, my mixture is off.
I'll order some EnviroSafe and start from scratch.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
On August 26, 2018 7:02:42 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
wrote:
>To me, low pressures on both sides feel like low charge.
>But knowing it's ES12 in
Thanks Manfred!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
On August 26, 2018 2:09:54 PM EDT, MG via Mercedes
wrote:
>Try this one for the Envirosafe pressures
>https://www.es-refrigerants.com/docs/12188_608.pdf
>
>Also attached if it comes through.
>
>MG
>
>Craig via Mercedes wrote:
>> On
Thanks Mitch!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
On August 26, 2018 7:02:42 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
wrote:
>To me, low pressures on both sides feel like low charge.
>But knowing it's ES12 in a leaky system, my first thought would be that
>the propane is mostly gone and
Thanks Craig!
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
On August 26, 2018 12:26:21 AM EDT, Craig via Mercedes
wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:58:36 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>> After action report.
>>
>> Something weird going on, the vent temperature air is colder when
BTW I don't do bars. Drinks cost too much and
then I have to worry about the cost of
getting home.
Much better to buy a bottle at the ABC and
then drink at home. Watch TV listen to music,
get a lap dance from the ol'lady. What's not
to like.
Craig via Mercedes wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018
To me, low pressures on both sides feel like low charge.
But knowing it's ES12 in a leaky system, my first thought would be that the
propane is mostly gone and you're trying to cool the car on isobutane.
You might read some Cathyisms and slowly add propane until the vent temps drop
and the low
After action report.
Something weird going on, the vent temperature air is colder when the
engine is at idle than when the engine speed is elevated to 2000 rpm. Is
this an indication of a bad expansion valve, or have I over-charged the
system?
When I started, the vent temperature was only about
I know that feeling well
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 25, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Great Idea Dan, I happen to have a can of that "on the shelf"
>
> Now let's see, I just saw that can of ClipLight sealer in the garage, maybe
> in that pile over there,
Great Idea Dan, I happen to have a can of that "on the shelf"
Now let's see, I just saw that can of ClipLight sealer in the garage, maybe
in that pile over there, I'll bet I can find it I think
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 11:32 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Max,
If you don’t find a leak of significance, I would highly recommend evacuating
and recharging with a can of ClipLight sealer. Even if you don’t have leaks of
significance, it will help to eliminate the losses through the hoses due to age.
Craig,
You've pointed out a flaw (topping up won't keep the blend correct) but if
I've got a leak, the blend is already different from what I installed.
I've got enough cans of the stuff, so I'll modify my plan to check for
leaks first, and then if the leak appears to be easy to get to and
On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 11:06:57 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
wrote:
> Here's my plan, if anyone can think of something else clever and
> inexpensive, or at least possible this weekend, let me know.
>
> Check the refrigerant pressures, and if the hydrocarbon blend
> (enviro-safe I think) is low,
This school year, I'm pressed into duty as after-school taxi driver for my
daughter, which means I have the joy of sitting in the car line at school
for about 30-40 minutes, engine at idle, under the full sun and during the
hottest and most humid part of the day.
The AC in The White Whale is not
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