Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
: Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
. Since there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe. The lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn through. Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp. Sort of forcing you to start and stop against your will. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about the wire not feeding consistantly.. I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed exactly according to the magic number on the dial... Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made in china. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 23:26:51 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 4130 shows up mostly in tubing no? The flywheel shaft in our propane-fired Chevette engine powered generator was turned from a piece of 6 4130 round stock. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out. Interesting. Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me. They seem to not only require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available. Sort of like drywall finishing…. Dan On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. --R On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out. Interesting. Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me. They seem to not only require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available. Sort of like drywall finishing…. Dan On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
'Pretty good at it myself. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. --R On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out. Interesting. Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me. They seem to not only require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available. Sort of like drywall finishing…. Dan On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 10:24:27 -0400 WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 'Pretty good at it myself. You got practice up in Greenland, didn't you, Wilton? Craig - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
I have 4130 in sheets also - for making fittings, etc. I think the issue with welding high strength auto steel might be tempering, or the ruination of the same - - - On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Google doesn't seem to reveal much more than what I remembered which the advice to just don't do it. I did find some vauge references to carbon embrittlement. 4130 shows up mostly in tubing no? I'm wondering if the high strength is really high carbon and something about acetylene mixes with the carbon to do something funky. -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Anybody hoping to learn anything about welding should probably post over on welding Web for some sound advice. I applaud you for diving in though. Starting on thin material is always going to be a tall order, no matter the process. It would probably be just as easy to gas weld that stuff with an oxy acetylene torch. That's how we did all the floor pans (and all the other body work) on the 55 chevy convertible when I was a kid. It seems like it was a lot easier to learn than this Flux wire junk. If you are only doing one car, I cant imagine you need a wire feed welder, no matter how cheap. And a torch can be used to cut and heat also. Where are the pics of this project? Karl On Jun 15, 2015 7:24 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 'Pretty good at it myself. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. --R On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out. Interesting. Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me. They seem to not only require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available. Sort of like drywall finishing…. Dan On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Some, but I was already proficient at it; 'taught several of the Danes there to do it. Got even more proficient here restoring/renovating coupla National Register of Historic Places properties, the house I'm living in and some others that I flipped. Wilton - Original Message - From: Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Craig diese...@pisquared.net Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 10:24:27 -0400 WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 'Pretty good at it myself. You got practice up in Greenland, didn't you, Wilton? Craig - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
The machine is made to handle only 0.030 and 0.035 flux. The feed wheels flip over to accept one or the other. Crank down barely grasps the 0.030 enough to feed at lowest speeds. I am thinking your advice to hammer the hot puddle may require a third and forth hand. I should be able to find something like that clay On Jun 14, 2015, at 9:54 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Question I failed to ask: What diameter wire are you using? .020, .030 or .035 ? To use the .020 wire, you will need to change the wheel gap adjustment to fit the smaller wire AND change the wire guide in the business end of the torch to fit the smaller wire. Smaller wire will give you a hotter, smaller weld puddle, so you will need to change your speed of torch movement to adapt. However, with smaller wire, you should get a weld puddle that is more correct size for thinner sheet metal. If you have an amperage adjustment, crank it down for the smaller wire. Again, do spot welds, Hammer and dolly the welds while still red, which will flatten the weld joint and make better contact, thus better welds.. Your tack weld should be 1/8 to 1/4 inch long, so as you work the panel into position [tack on one side.. hammer/dolly to flatten tack the other side .. hammer/dolly to flatten.. As you work around the repair.. soon you have the patch contained with the weld joint overlap nice and flat from hammer / dolly and on the second pass.. instead of tack welds 4 inches apart.. go in between the 4 inch tacks.. same routine.. so on second pass you have a tack ever 2 inches.. repeat as necessary.. Soon you have a good repair. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I actually read the destructions that came with the zapper. I followed the set up to the letter and even made sure the wheels were in the proper orientation for the wire I was using. There are no teeth to the wheels that would provide decent bite. Just some knurling like you would find on a dime in the grooves. I have the tension adjusted almost to the point of strangling the wire. It does not speed up or make the wire feed properly. I am thinking the low speed setting is actually in Dummy mode. Since there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe. The lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn through. Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp. Sort of forcing you to start and stop against your will. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about the wire not feeding consistantly.. I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed exactly according to the magic number on the dial... Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made in china. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
You can't (or supposedly can't, I've never tried) gas weld high strength steel from about 1980 on. You could braze it I suppose. Honestly Karl its all about Clay starting with a junk welder and not listening to any of the advice he's been given, he's making this as hard for himself as possible. I've got a Lincoln Handy Mig and it can stick good clean 18ga metal together all day without blowing through. Try sticking it to the dubious crap that makes up an old car and things get interesting. The trick there is to cut back far enough to find really solid metal. Sometimes thats hard... -Curt From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz com mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Karl Wittnebel atypical...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Anybody hoping to learn anything about welding should probably post over on welding Web for some sound advice. I applaud you for diving in though. Starting on thin material is always going to be a tall order, no matter the process. It would probably be just as easy to gas weld that stuff with an oxy acetylene torch. That's how we did all the floor pans (and all the other body work) on the 55 chevy convertible when I was a kid. It seems like it was a lot easier to learn than this Flux wire junk. If you are only doing one car, I cant imagine you need a wire feed welder, no matter how cheap. And a torch can be used to cut and heat also. Where are the pics of this project? Karl On Jun 15, 2015 7:24 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 'Pretty good at it myself. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. --R On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out. Interesting. Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me. They seem to not only require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available. Sort of like drywall finishing…. Dan On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Not headed to do the project just yet. I will make a few pix for fun. AS for welding torches and such. I kind of felt it would be less controllable and flammable than poking arcs and wire. I am not that good with flames, and the arc would be a bit more surgical. Going in, I was not aware that sheet metal was such a complex process. The gobs of epoxy and fiberglass were not going to do the job, as they were delaminating and the rust was not dealt with on the underside. May as well put metal back for a solid repair. On Jun 15, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote: Anybody hoping to learn anything about welding should probably post over on welding Web for some sound advice. I applaud you for diving in though. Starting on thin material is always going to be a tall order, no matter the process. It would probably be just as easy to gas weld that stuff with an oxy acetylene torch. That's how we did all the floor pans (and all the other body work) on the 55 chevy convertible when I was a kid. It seems like it was a lot easier to learn than this Flux wire junk. If you are only doing one car, I cant imagine you need a wire feed welder, no matter how cheap. And a torch can be used to cut and heat also. Where are the pics of this project? Karl On Jun 15, 2015 7:24 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: 'Pretty good at it myself. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller. I hate it too. --R On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out. Interesting. Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me. They seem to not only require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available. Sort of like drywall finishing…. Dan On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous. Solution: Watch more cableTV car shows! --R On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Just get some new wire and start doing spot welds and don't try to run long beads. My younger son did a whole lot of that on the old 4Runner that we had and did a pretty decent job rebuilding the metal over the rear wheel arches and the rear quarter from the arch to the back of the panel. He just tacked and then tacked between until he had it filled in. Used a flap disk in a grinder to flatten the welds and it all looked pretty good when he was done. It was fall and too cold to paint so he sprayed it with rattle can rock guard and let it go but if he had been able to smooth a bit of filler over it, it would have fooled most folks into thinking it was original. He had little or no experience welding. The welder is a Lincoln Migpac 180 with gas. I had a more basic 120V unit first and had very little luck with it. It had the gas setup too but like yours, little control of heat or wire speed. I gave it to my b-in-l and bought this one on a good sale. Kept the argon tank and made my b-in-l get his own tank. RB On 15/06/2015 4:10 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote: Not headed to do the project just yet. I will make a few pix for fun. AS for welding torches and such. I kind of felt it would be less controllable and flammable than poking arcs and wire. I am not that good with flames, and the arc would be a bit more surgical. Going in, I was not aware that sheet metal was such a complex process. The gobs of epoxy and fiberglass were not going to do the job, as they were delaminating and the rust was not dealt with on the underside. May as well put metal back for a solid repair. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
I wonder just what that high strength steel really is. I thought that chrome moly 4130 was high strength steel, and I weld it all the time (with gas). On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: You can't (or supposedly can't, I've never tried) gas weld high strength steel from about 1980 on. You could braze it I suppose. Honestly Karl its all about Clay starting with a junk welder and not listening to any of the advice he's been given, he's making this as hard for himself as possible. I've got a Lincoln Handy Mig and it can stick good clean 18ga metal together all day without blowing through. Try sticking it to the dubious crap that makes up an old car and things get interesting. The trick there is to cut back far enough to find really solid metal. Sometimes thats hard... -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Google doesn't seem to reveal much more than what I remembered which the advice to just don't do it. I did find some vauge references to carbon embrittlement. 4130 shows up mostly in tubing no? I'm wondering if the high strength is really high carbon and something about acetylene mixes with the carbon to do something funky. -Curt From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week I wonder just what that high strength steel really is. I thought that chrome moly 4130 was high strength steel, and I weld it all the time (with gas). On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: You can't (or supposedly can't, I've never tried) gas weld high strength steel from about 1980 on. You could braze it I suppose. Honestly Karl its all about Clay starting with a junk welder and not listening to any of the advice he's been given, he's making this as hard for himself as possible. I've got a Lincoln Handy Mig and it can stick good clean 18ga metal together all day without blowing through. Try sticking it to the dubious crap that makes up an old car and things get interesting. The trick there is to cut back far enough to find really solid metal. Sometimes thats hard... -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.” – Mark TwainThere are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.WILL ROGERS, The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers2013 F150, 18 mpg2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Cleaning the slag from a previous weld should be pretty easy using a welding hammer and a wire brush. My experience welding was working as a steamfitter/rigger for about a year on a powerhouse job along the Hudson River (Roseton, NY)in the early 70s. Also took a course at a tech school. I do ok with a stick machine for thicker material, but resort to brazing (or silver-solder) with a B tank and acetylene for the thinner stuff. Less burn-through because of lower temps, neater joints, and just as strong if you use the correct rod. Some alloys even wick nicely into tight joints. I got my gear and materials cheap or free from my brother, who was selling high-tech welding supplies at the time. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of clay via Mercedes Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 1:20 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: clay Subject: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week It has been a week of dragging my butt outside in the heat and playing with the flux core welding gun. In that time I have gained some perspective on just how much work making a decent weld is. At first I was just banging about with the gun and burning through wire and sheet metal. It was really nasty, but I got a feel for the machine and the gun. Having the old brake rotor to play with allowed me to get comfortable that I could lay down a good bead, but it seemed only on a heavy bit of iron, not something thin, like what I need to know so I can repair the rusted and rotted out floors in the 300D. SO, zapping thick metal is eazy peezy and most any monkey can do that. I also found that flux core is not good to try to start and stop. It took me a bit to understand that the slag and cruft impedes a good weld, so you need to clean the prior muck before you go at it again. Getting it back to bare metal would let the new bead adhere and flow instead of spattering out pellet of micro death all over the world. Flux is great for outdoor work, which the car repair will be. No need to worry the wind is blowing my shielding gas away and the air flow also will make the toxic fumes move away from the work. That is a plus. The HF welding toy is very basic and binary. You have either BIG amp or small amp button and a spastic wire feed control. The little graphic under the hood tells you if you need BIG or small and what wire speed for what thickness of metal. It lies and is very optimistic when dealing with thin sheet metal. At least if you expect to be laying down a continuous bead. I could not keep from blowing through the metal and having bad welds at the 0.5 wire speed (0-9 range) the graphic depicts. I up the speed and it still blows out, but at least the wire feeds. The slow speed would not put out wire dependably. The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. What I also garnered from this learning curve was that the really hefty copper welding heat sink could suck calories out of the work. I do not have enough hands to hold that and the gun, but it was eye opening. I am fairly certain all this information was provided by Grant a week ago, but seeing it with ones own eyes drives it home. Much of my practice metal has been dead computer cases. It had a plethora of coatings, and even some of the metal I picked up at the scrap store had a film. For a very good end product, you need a VERY clean work surface. Initially, the wire wheel and grinder elbow grease I applied was not enough to really give me a clean, bare surface. I thought it looked bare, but it was not. SHINY metal is a clean, bare surface. No shine, not clean, no good welds will come. All the youtube videos and written explanations did not get that to sink in. Seeing it in action was the key. The current steep learning curve involves welding sheet metal to a thicker L bit. The heavy L is rather solid and flat. The body panels I need to tack it and weld to are not so flat. Gaps and uneven contact are not making for a good weld. I am still on the learning bench, not in actual car process. The sheet metal is 18 gauge, the L is 1/8 to 3/16. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
When I was rebuilding Miller “buzz boxes” during tech school we used 1/2 steel plate scraps to test them out. That stuff is fun to weld with a stick welder that puts out 400 amps. Our fabrication guy used to win bar bets welding two pieces of aluminum foil together with a Miller wire feed welder. The crazy bastard could do it, too. Dan On Jun 14, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Cleaning the slag from a previous weld should be pretty easy using a welding hammer and a wire brush. My experience welding was working as a steamfitter/rigger for about a year on a powerhouse job along the Hudson River (Roseton, NY)in the early 70s. Also took a course at a tech school. I do ok with a stick machine for thicker material, but resort to brazing (or silver-solder) with a B tank and acetylene for the thinner stuff. Less burn-through because of lower temps, neater joints, and just as strong if you use the correct rod. Some alloys even wick nicely into tight joints. I got my gear and materials cheap or free from my brother, who was selling high-tech welding supplies at the time. Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
I actually read the destructions that came with the zapper. I followed the set up to the letter and even made sure the wheels were in the proper orientation for the wire I was using. There are no teeth to the wheels that would provide decent bite. Just some knurling like you would find on a dime in the grooves. I have the tension adjusted almost to the point of strangling the wire. It does not speed up or make the wire feed properly. I am thinking the low speed setting is actually in Dummy mode. Since there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe. The lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn through. Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp. Sort of forcing you to start and stop against your will. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about the wire not feeding consistantly.. I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed exactly according to the magic number on the dial... Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made in china. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about the wire not feeding consistantly.. I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed exactly according to the magic number on the dial... Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made in china. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
We had a contractor build a 14x28' steel patio cover last year. For some reason they needed a new welder, and the contractor brought a new HF unit. The welder spend about an hour trying to get it to work correctly, then called the contractor and read him the riot act. A new Lincoln unit from Lowes arrived, and the welder was a happy man. The job looks good as well. You get what you pay for. Yes, Curt - read my tag line . . . On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 7:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about the wire not feeding consistantly.. I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed exactly according to the magic number on the dial... Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made in china. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Question I failed to ask: What diameter wire are you using? .020, .030 or .035 ? To use the .020 wire, you will need to change the wheel gap adjustment to fit the smaller wire AND change the wire guide in the business end of the torch to fit the smaller wire. Smaller wire will give you a hotter, smaller weld puddle, so you will need to change your speed of torch movement to adapt. However, with smaller wire, you should get a weld puddle that is more correct size for thinner sheet metal. If you have an amperage adjustment, crank it down for the smaller wire. Again, do spot welds, Hammer and dolly the welds while still red, which will flatten the weld joint and make better contact, thus better welds.. Your tack weld should be 1/8 to 1/4 inch long, so as you work the panel into position [tack on one side.. hammer/dolly to flatten tack the other side .. hammer/dolly to flatten.. As you work around the repair.. soon you have the patch contained with the weld joint overlap nice and flat from hammer / dolly and on the second pass.. instead of tack welds 4 inches apart.. go in between the 4 inch tacks.. same routine.. so on second pass you have a tack ever 2 inches.. repeat as necessary.. Soon you have a good repair. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I actually read the destructions that came with the zapper. I followed the set up to the letter and even made sure the wheels were in the proper orientation for the wire I was using. There are no teeth to the wheels that would provide decent bite. Just some knurling like you would find on a dime in the grooves. I have the tension adjusted almost to the point of strangling the wire. It does not speed up or make the wire feed properly. I am thinking the low speed setting is actually in Dummy mode. Since there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe. The lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn through. Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp. Sort of forcing you to start and stop against your will. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about the wire not feeding consistantly.. I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed exactly according to the magic number on the dial... Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made in china. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing. When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too. -Curt From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns. Clearly, HF does not make one such. Using the Miller on clean, reasonably thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive
[MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
It has been a week of dragging my butt outside in the heat and playing with the flux core welding gun. In that time I have gained some perspective on just how much work making a decent weld is. At first I was just banging about with the gun and burning through wire and sheet metal. It was really nasty, but I got a feel for the machine and the gun. Having the old brake rotor to play with allowed me to get comfortable that I could lay down a good bead, but it seemed only on a heavy bit of iron, not something thin, like what I need to know so I can repair the rusted and rotted out floors in the 300D. SO, zapping thick metal is eazy peezy and most any monkey can do that. I also found that flux core is not good to try to start and stop. It took me a bit to understand that the slag and cruft impedes a good weld, so you need to clean the prior muck before you go at it again. Getting it back to bare metal would let the new bead adhere and flow instead of spattering out pellet of micro death all over the world. Flux is great for outdoor work, which the car repair will be. No need to worry the wind is blowing my shielding gas away and the air flow also will make the toxic fumes move away from the work. That is a plus. The HF welding toy is very basic and binary. You have either BIG amp or small amp button and a spastic wire feed control. The little graphic under the hood tells you if you need BIG or small and what wire speed for what thickness of metal. It lies and is very optimistic when dealing with thin sheet metal. At least if you expect to be laying down a continuous bead. I could not keep from blowing through the metal and having bad welds at the 0.5 wire speed (0-9 range) the graphic depicts. I up the speed and it still blows out, but at least the wire feeds. The slow speed would not put out wire dependably. The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. What I also garnered from this learning curve was that the really hefty copper welding heat sink could suck calories out of the work. I do not have enough hands to hold that and the gun, but it was eye opening. I am fairly certain all this information was provided by Grant a week ago, but seeing it with ones own eyes drives it home. Much of my practice metal has been dead computer cases. It had a plethora of coatings, and even some of the metal I picked up at the scrap store had a film. For a very good end product, you need a VERY clean work surface. Initially, the wire wheel and grinder elbow grease I applied was not enough to really give me a clean, bare surface. I thought it looked bare, but it was not. SHINY metal is a clean, bare surface. No shine, not clean, no good welds will come. All the youtube videos and written explanations did not get that to sink in. Seeing it in action was the key. The current steep learning curve involves welding sheet metal to a thicker L bit. The heavy L is rather solid and flat. The body panels I need to tack it and weld to are not so flat. Gaps and uneven contact are not making for a good weld. I am still on the learning bench, not in actual car process. The sheet metal is 18 gauge, the L is 1/8 to 3/16. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
Good report on your progress. Welding 1/8th stock [.125 thousands thick] to 18 gage [55. thousands thick] is a serious challenge for beginner.. The first problem you will have is to get enough weld heat on the .125 stock to penetrate without destroying the 55. material with that much heat. Now it's time for development of hand eye coordination.. Start the arc on the heavy material first, then flow the weld puddle into the light material, then get out of the weld.. Good contact between the heavy metal and the light metal is absolutely critical. If there is a gap... you will stay in the weld joint to long trying to stack up liquid metal to fill the gap.. which will heat transfer to the lighter metal and burn through it.. quickly. Set up some practice pieces with the thicknesses and work with them.. it will come to you. On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 1:19 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It has been a week of dragging my butt outside in the heat and playing with the flux core welding gun. In that time I have gained some perspective on just how much work making a decent weld is. At first I was just banging about with the gun and burning through wire and sheet metal. It was really nasty, but I got a feel for the machine and the gun. Having the old brake rotor to play with allowed me to get comfortable that I could lay down a good bead, but it seemed only on a heavy bit of iron, not something thin, like what I need to know so I can repair the rusted and rotted out floors in the 300D. SO, zapping thick metal is eazy peezy and most any monkey can do that. I also found that flux core is not good to try to start and stop. It took me a bit to understand that the slag and cruft impedes a good weld, so you need to clean the prior muck before you go at it again. Getting it back to bare metal would let the new bead adhere and flow instead of spattering out pellet of micro death all over the world. Flux is great for outdoor work, which the car repair will be. No need to worry the wind is blowing my shielding gas away and the air flow also will make the toxic fumes move away from the work. That is a plus. The HF welding toy is very basic and binary. You have either BIG amp or small amp button and a spastic wire feed control. The little graphic under the hood tells you if you need BIG or small and what wire speed for what thickness of metal. It lies and is very optimistic when dealing with thin sheet metal. At least if you expect to be laying down a continuous bead. I could not keep from blowing through the metal and having bad welds at the 0.5 wire speed (0-9 range) the graphic depicts. I up the speed and it still blows out, but at least the wire feeds. The slow speed would not put out wire dependably. The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last ones. Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more successful. That took a long time to figure out. It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing. Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat. What I also garnered from this learning curve was that the really hefty copper welding heat sink could suck calories out of the work. I do not have enough hands to hold that and the gun, but it was eye opening. I am fairly certain all this information was provided by Grant a week ago, but seeing it with ones own eyes drives it home. Much of my practice metal has been dead computer cases. It had a plethora of coatings, and even some of the metal I picked up at the scrap store had a film. For a very good end product, you need a VERY clean work surface. Initially, the wire wheel and grinder elbow grease I applied was not enough to really give me a clean, bare surface. I thought it looked bare, but it was not. SHINY metal is a clean, bare surface. No shine, not clean, no good welds will come. All the youtube videos and written explanations did not get that to sink in. Seeing it in action was the key. The current steep learning curve involves welding sheet metal to a thicker L bit. The heavy L is rather solid and flat. The body panels I need to tack it and weld to are not so flat. Gaps and uneven contact are not making for a good weld. I am still on the learning bench, not in actual car process. The sheet metal is 18 gauge, the L is 1/8 to 3/16. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To
