Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

KC135 wet takeoffs are impressive inside the airplane too, especially in the 
cargo area behind the engines.

> -Original Message-
> From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
> When I was a kid my dad worked at an army base in Riyadh and you could
> always tell when the 135s took off to refuel the awacs because the rafters
> would literally shake and the skylights would rattle. His office was basically
> right next to the runway. That was in the 70s and 80s, before the
> 135 engine upgrades. I used to climb up the parking shade structure and sit on
> the cinder block wall overlooking the airfield and watch these planes.
> It all seemed pretty normal.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Back in the day I had an instructor who advised:  In the event of engine 
failure (in a single engine light aircraft) the safest thing to do is to crash 
straight ahead.  In a light twin with engine failure the safest thing to do is 
shut down the other engine and crash straight ahead.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Mitch Haley via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2020 2:07 PM
> 
> 
> In a lot of the experimental incident reports I saw, it was 'mechanic error
> (owner/pilot/mechanic being the same person) > power loss > pilot error
> (often pulling the stick back in a panicky attempt to increase glide 
> distance) >
> fatality.


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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Correct on all accounts --

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 2:08 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> I remembered a lot of the details wrong with the orange silicone guy.
> http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/06/toledo-lincoln-county-oregon.html
>
> It was the fuel flow transducer, not the carburetor, that he plugged with
> a loose lump of silicone.
> He was in radio contact with nobody. He was about ten years younger than I
> remembered.
> Surviving passenger reports that he was turning AND trying to raise the
> nose, probably to line up for forced landing on a dirt access road when he
> decided he wouldn't make the airport.
> The basis for the lawsuit was plaintiffs' claim that experimental airplane
> kits are unjustly exploiting a loophole in FAA regs and should not exist.
> Pretty stupid, but civil juries have handed out huge awards based on
> stupider theories.
>
> But the main idea is still that
> 1. he plugged his fuel system with stupidity.
> 2. He probably could have landed safely, or at least without serious
> personal injury, if he'd kept his nose down and his airspeed up.
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I remembered a lot of the details wrong with the orange silicone guy. 
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2014/06/toledo-lincoln-county-oregon.html

It was the fuel flow transducer, not the carburetor, that he plugged with a 
loose lump of silicone. 
He was in radio contact with nobody. He was about ten years younger than I 
remembered. 
Surviving passenger reports that he was turning AND trying to raise the nose, 
probably to line up for forced landing on a dirt access road when he decided he 
wouldn't make the airport. 
The basis for the lawsuit was plaintiffs' claim that experimental airplane kits 
are unjustly exploiting a loophole in FAA regs and should not exist. Pretty 
stupid, but civil juries have handed out huge awards based on stupider 
theories. 

But the main idea is still that 
1. he plugged his fuel system with stupidity. 
2. He probably could have landed safely, or at least without serious personal 
injury, if he'd kept his nose down and his airspeed up.

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

When I was a kid my dad worked at an army base in Riyadh and you could
always tell when the 135s took off to refuel the awacs because the rafters
would literally shake and the skylights would rattle. His office was
basically right next to the runway. That was in the 70s and 80s, before the
135 engine upgrades. I used to climb up the parking shade structure and sit
on the cinder block wall overlooking the airfield and watch these planes.
It all seemed pretty normal.

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020, 11:16 AM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 05:26:24 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > Here’s a picture of my youngest son in the “boomer’s” cradle in a
> > KC-135. Don’t ask how I got it:
>
> No picture attached, Dan.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You can't lump all homebuilts into one group. I've wondered about flying
the ultralights where the stall at 25 and cruise at 45. Not much spread
there. An average Tailwind stalls at about 65-70 and cruises at 180 -
plenty of spread! This from a 1953 design ... no, it was never true.

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:27 AM archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Back in the '80s a pilot said that the reason homebuilts have so many
> accidents is because the flying speed is so close to the stall speed.
> Is that true, and if so, is the situation better nowadays?
> Gerry
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 05:26:24 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Here’s a picture of my youngest son in the “boomer’s” cradle in a
> KC-135. Don’t ask how I got it:

No picture attached, Dan.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

In a lot of the experimental incident reports I saw, it was 'mechanic error 
(owner/pilot/mechanic being the same person) > power loss > pilot error (often 
pulling the stick back in a panicky attempt to increase glide distance) > 
fatality.

One classic example:
60 year old builds, IIRC, a Van's RV10. 
Build instructions say not to put sealant on flare fittings in fuel lines. 
Other homebuilders say don't put sealant on those flare fittings, you need to 
fix that stuff. 
Builder is perfectly happy with giant orange globs of silicone all over his 
fuel fittings. 
Builder has fueling problems and engine cutout. 
Builder thinks he has problem fixed. 
Builder takes daughter and granddaughter for a ride. 
Engine dies from a great big glob of orange silicone in the carburetor. 
Pilot radios in that he's going to glide back to airport. 
When it looks like he's going to land short, he pulls back the stick 
(decreasing glide ratio and steepening descent angle so he'll land even 
shorter) and pulls it back some more until it stalls. 
Plane augers in, pilot and GD dead, daughter sues Van's Aircraft on behalf of 
pilot and GD's estates, because it's Van's fault that pilot ruined his fuel 
system after Van's sold him the kit.

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[G Mann via Mercedes]

 <<<

I've been involved with the home built / experimental aircraft world for
the past 40+ years and the most common cause of accidents remain's "pilot
error", rather than "aircraft stall", so I think it is unlikely the
original premise was well founded.
The difference between cruise speed and stall speed in even early designs
was large. Now, even better designs have even better margins..
Piloting still requires the pilot to know and manage those through the
entire flight envelope, some fail to do that.

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> There is a good vid on this by AOPA looking at LSA safety issues.
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 11:27 PM archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:40:41 -0600
> > OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> > > The Tailwind can operate out of almost any airport, while the canards
> > need
> > > a long runway. Someone built a Long-eze here on our 2600 ft. airport
> and
> > > didn't manage to clear the trees at the end. Made a mess of broken
> > > fiberglass. My C182A with nothing special gets off the ground in
> approx.
> > > 800 - 900 feet. The Tailwind might take another 100 - 200 feet, might
> > not.
> > > Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing
> > the
> > > airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 1:00 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was looking at building a cozy and then got distracted by quickie
> 2s,
> > > > which are quick but a bit too deadly for me to think about. I can do
> > pretty
> > > > much everything needed to build a Tailwind and it would make a nice
> > long
> > > > term project. I can do everything needed to build a Lancair or a
> > quickie
> > > > also, but honestly neither one seems as solid a performer as the
> > tailwind,
> > > > and the tailwind kit is only about 6k plus motor.
> > > >
> > > > The cozy appeals in terms of stall resistance, as that is what seems
> to
> > > > kill a lot of people when the power goes out on small planes. Cozy is
> > also
> > > > very efficient. Nice combo. Price might be more than I want to pay
> > though.
> > > --
> > > OK Don
> > .
> > Back in the '80s a pilot said that the reason homebuilts have so many
> > accidents is because the flying speed is so close to the stall speed.
> > Is that true, and if so, is the situation better nowadays?
> > Gerry
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

There is a good vid on this by AOPA looking at LSA safety issues.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 11:27 PM archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:40:41 -0600
> OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
>
> > The Tailwind can operate out of almost any airport, while the canards
> need
> > a long runway. Someone built a Long-eze here on our 2600 ft. airport and
> > didn't manage to clear the trees at the end. Made a mess of broken
> > fiberglass. My C182A with nothing special gets off the ground in approx.
> > 800 - 900 feet. The Tailwind might take another 100 - 200 feet, might
> not.
> > Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing
> the
> > airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 1:00 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I was looking at building a cozy and then got distracted by quickie 2s,
> > > which are quick but a bit too deadly for me to think about. I can do
> pretty
> > > much everything needed to build a Tailwind and it would make a nice
> long
> > > term project. I can do everything needed to build a Lancair or a
> quickie
> > > also, but honestly neither one seems as solid a performer as the
> tailwind,
> > > and the tailwind kit is only about 6k plus motor.
> > >
> > > The cozy appeals in terms of stall resistance, as that is what seems to
> > > kill a lot of people when the power goes out on small planes. Cozy is
> also
> > > very efficient. Nice combo. Price might be more than I want to pay
> though.
> > --
> > OK Don
> .
> Back in the '80s a pilot said that the reason homebuilts have so many
> accidents is because the flying speed is so close to the stall speed.
> Is that true, and if so, is the situation better nowadays?
> Gerry
>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:40:41 -0600
OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:

> The Tailwind can operate out of almost any airport, while the canards need
> a long runway. Someone built a Long-eze here on our 2600 ft. airport and
> didn't manage to clear the trees at the end. Made a mess of broken
> fiberglass. My C182A with nothing special gets off the ground in approx.
> 800 - 900 feet. The Tailwind might take another 100 - 200 feet, might not.
> Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing the
> airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 1:00 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > I was looking at building a cozy and then got distracted by quickie 2s,
> > which are quick but a bit too deadly for me to think about. I can do pretty
> > much everything needed to build a Tailwind and it would make a nice long
> > term project. I can do everything needed to build a Lancair or a quickie
> > also, but honestly neither one seems as solid a performer as the tailwind,
> > and the tailwind kit is only about 6k plus motor.
> >
> > The cozy appeals in terms of stall resistance, as that is what seems to
> > kill a lot of people when the power goes out on small planes. Cozy is also
> > very efficient. Nice combo. Price might be more than I want to pay though.
> -- 
> OK Don
.
Back in the '80s a pilot said that the reason homebuilts have so many accidents 
is because the flying speed is so close to the stall speed. 
Is that true, and if so, is the situation better nowadays?
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I think it would be very nice to have in a "new to you" aircraft, but after
the initial novelty, I don't think I'd look at it in the C182.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 3:28 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Hard to argue that knowing the angle of attack is going to hurt, though.
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Hard to argue that knowing the angle of attack is going to hurt, though.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 12:41 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Stall event is not just an angle of attack function. Many other factors can
> and do come into play, such as aircraft weight [fuel load, cargo, drag, and
> air density, ice accumulation, etc etc].
> Angle of attack indication only gets you "somewhere in the ballpark of when
> stall will occur".
> Good piloting skills, as mentioned, teach you to feel what the airplane is
> doing at all times.
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:17 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > On January 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing
> > the
> > > airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 
> >
> > And now you can put a pretty band-aid on that.
> > It's quite popular with the Lancair owners.
> > I know I'd pay $400 for that, and I'm a cheapskate.
> > https://www.flyingmag.com/how-it-works-angle-attack-indicator/
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Stall event is not just an angle of attack function. Many other factors can
and do come into play, such as aircraft weight [fuel load, cargo, drag, and
air density, ice accumulation, etc etc].
Angle of attack indication only gets you "somewhere in the ballpark of when
stall will occur".
Good piloting skills, as mentioned, teach you to feel what the airplane is
doing at all times.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:17 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On January 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing
> the
> > airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 
>
> And now you can put a pretty band-aid on that.
> It's quite popular with the Lancair owners.
> I know I'd pay $400 for that, and I'm a cheapskate.
> https://www.flyingmag.com/how-it-works-angle-attack-indicator/
>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 5, 2020 at 12:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing the
> airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 

And now you can put a pretty band-aid on that. 
It's quite popular with the Lancair owners. 
I know I'd pay $400 for that, and I'm a cheapskate. 
https://www.flyingmag.com/how-it-works-angle-attack-indicator/

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The Tailwind can operate out of almost any airport, while the canards need
a long runway. Someone built a Long-eze here on our 2600 ft. airport and
didn't manage to clear the trees at the end. Made a mess of broken
fiberglass. My C182A with nothing special gets off the ground in approx.
800 - 900 feet. The Tailwind might take another 100 - 200 feet, might not.
Stalls that kill people are the result of poor piloting - not managing the
airspeed and un-coordinated turns at slow speed and low 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 1:00 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was looking at building a cozy and then got distracted by quickie 2s,
> which are quick but a bit too deadly for me to think about. I can do pretty
> much everything needed to build a Tailwind and it would make a nice long
> term project. I can do everything needed to build a Lancair or a quickie
> also, but honestly neither one seems as solid a performer as the tailwind,
> and the tailwind kit is only about 6k plus motor.
>
> The cozy appeals in terms of stall resistance, as that is what seems to
> kill a lot of people when the power goes out on small planes. Cozy is also
> very efficient. Nice combo. Price might be more than I want to pay though.
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I don't know how close the KC-135 and the 707 are. Yes, the KC-135 engines
have been upgraded at least once, and they are talking about doing it again.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 8:46 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Dredging back into my less and less reliable memory, I don't think a
> KC-135 is actually the same as a 707 -- I believe I remember that the 707
> fuselage is wider (and hence a completely different design) and last time I
> looked, admittedly many years ago, the engines on the KC-135 had not been
> upgraded from JT-75s.  Hopefully they have been, as they are pretty
> marginal aircraft at low speed with the original engines.
>
> Last one I saw though was smashed at the end of the runway mimicing  a
> pile of junk at Andrews nearly 40 years ago.
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Dredging back into my less and less reliable memory, I don't think a KC-135 is 
actually the same as a 707 -- I believe I remember that the 707 fuselage is 
wider (and hence a completely different design) and last time I looked, 
admittedly many years ago, the engines on the KC-135 had not been upgraded from 
JT-75s.  Hopefully they have been, as they are pretty marginal aircraft at low 
speed with the original engines.

Last one I saw though was smashed at the end of the runway mimicing  a pile of 
junk at Andrews nearly 40 years ago.
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

There’s a refueling group at MacDill AFB here in Tampa that is all KC-135s, so 
I see them daily out of my office window as they take off and land.

I was thinking more of the commercial versions, since they’re far rarer.

Here’s a picture of my youngest son in the “boomer’s” cradle in a KC-135. Don’t 
ask how I got it:



-D



> On Jan 5, 2020, at 12:00 AM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The 707's are still flying - over my house almost everyday, though they are
> called KC-135's now. My son, the engineer, over see's repairs on the fleet
> at Tinker AFB now. They can make any part they need to keep them in the
> air. It's quite the operation. I forget the frequency, but they come into
> Tinker on a schedule, get stripped down to the bare metal, gone over with a
> fine toothed comb, all repairs made (mostly corrosion - turns out spot
> welds are not a good idea for aluminum skins), and sent back into duty.
> 
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 5:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I can recall seeing 707s and even the occasional DC-3 there. I’m sure the
>> DC-3s are long gone, but I’ll bet there’s still a bunch of old stuff down
>> there.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Eventually the fuselage or wings will get enough cracks they aren't
>> economic to repair as the pressurization cycles accumulate.  At some point
>> the risk of massive failure will outweigh the cost to replace, and they
>> will be broken up.
>>> 
>>> Very few DC-8 or 707's left, ditto for 727's and early model 737's.
>> They have all exceeded their economic life, and were broken up for the
>> aluminum.  I believe there are two complete Lockheed Super Constellations
>> left -- one in Australia and The Columbine, Eisenhower's AF1 that was still
>> in flying condition in the early 2000's at the Air Force Museum in Dayton,
>> OH.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I was looking at building a cozy and then got distracted by quickie 2s,
which are quick but a bit too deadly for me to think about. I can do pretty
much everything needed to build a Tailwind and it would make a nice long
term project. I can do everything needed to build a Lancair or a quickie
also, but honestly neither one seems as solid a performer as the tailwind,
and the tailwind kit is only about 6k plus motor.

The cozy appeals in terms of stall resistance, as that is what seems to
kill a lot of people when the power goes out on small planes. Cozy is also
very efficient. Nice combo. Price might be more than I want to pay though.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 9:09 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> The Tailwind (one of them anyway) holds the record for speed in it's class
> in the SARL races - averaging 235 around a closed course. I think he hits
> over 250 ...
> It was the first amateur built experiment to be certified to carry
> passengers by the FAA in (IIRC) 1955. Steve Wittman, the designer and air
> racer, built it to fly parts and support between races.
>
> I like it's looks better than those plastic planes - especially as it's
> faster! The lifting body is part of it, as is the necked down wing cord at
> the root - reducing interference drag between the wing and fuselage as well
> as placing the center of lift where it needs to be while allowing a more
> streamlined fuselage. The spring steel landing gear (used bu Cessna and
> many others) were also Wittman's invention, and patented by him.
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 8:34 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > On January 4, 2020 at 7:14 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you building one of those airplanes Mitch?
> >
> > Only in my dreams.
> > First started dreaming in 2018 when I found an ad for an unbuilt 25 year
> > old Lancair 235 kit for $8k.
> > It appears that Tailwind (fixed gear) falls between 2 seat Lancair
> > (retracts) and RV-8 (fixed) in efficiency / straight line speed, and
> should
> > be cheaper than either. Making the fuselage a lifting body was
> apparently a
> > stroke of genius, it's not as beautiful as a Lancair but it's pretty darn
> > fast for fixed gear, especially considering the age of the design.
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The Tailwind (one of them anyway) holds the record for speed in it's class
in the SARL races - averaging 235 around a closed course. I think he hits
over 250 ...
It was the first amateur built experiment to be certified to carry
passengers by the FAA in (IIRC) 1955. Steve Wittman, the designer and air
racer, built it to fly parts and support between races.

I like it's looks better than those plastic planes - especially as it's
faster! The lifting body is part of it, as is the necked down wing cord at
the root - reducing interference drag between the wing and fuselage as well
as placing the center of lift where it needs to be while allowing a more
streamlined fuselage. The spring steel landing gear (used bu Cessna and
many others) were also Wittman's invention, and patented by him.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 8:34 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On January 4, 2020 at 7:14 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Are you building one of those airplanes Mitch?
>
> Only in my dreams.
> First started dreaming in 2018 when I found an ad for an unbuilt 25 year
> old Lancair 235 kit for $8k.
> It appears that Tailwind (fixed gear) falls between 2 seat Lancair
> (retracts) and RV-8 (fixed) in efficiency / straight line speed, and should
> be cheaper than either. Making the fuselage a lifting body was apparently a
> stroke of genius, it's not as beautiful as a Lancair but it's pretty darn
> fast for fixed gear, especially considering the age of the design.
>
> Mitch.
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The 707's are still flying - over my house almost everyday, though they are
called KC-135's now. My son, the engineer, over see's repairs on the fleet
at Tinker AFB now. They can make any part they need to keep them in the
air. It's quite the operation. I forget the frequency, but they come into
Tinker on a schedule, get stripped down to the bare metal, gone over with a
fine toothed comb, all repairs made (mostly corrosion - turns out spot
welds are not a good idea for aluminum skins), and sent back into duty.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 5:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> I can recall seeing 707s and even the occasional DC-3 there. I’m sure the
> DC-3s are long gone, but I’ll bet there’s still a bunch of old stuff down
> there.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Eventually the fuselage or wings will get enough cracks they aren't
> economic to repair as the pressurization cycles accumulate.  At some point
> the risk of massive failure will outweigh the cost to replace, and they
> will be broken up.
> >
> > Very few DC-8 or 707's left, ditto for 727's and early model 737's.
> They have all exceeded their economic life, and were broken up for the
> aluminum.  I believe there are two complete Lockheed Super Constellations
> left -- one in Australia and The Columbine, Eisenhower's AF1 that was still
> in flying condition in the early 2000's at the Air Force Museum in Dayton,
> OH.
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I'm sure Catto would make me a small 3 blade prop that's reasonably efficient 
at 3200rpm/140hp/200kts/FL120
and cruises nicely at 2800-3000rpm. But takeoff and low speed climb performance 
would stink. Blades would probably be stalled on the runway. And of course the 
prop/hub would cost me thousands more than the engine. 
Mitch. 
> On January 4, 2020 at 8:15 PM OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> You'd still need to use a PSRU of some sort for reasonable power and prop
> speeds. I'm not a fan of those either.
>

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 10:48:17 -0600
Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  wrote:

> Maybe I can sell or half my fleet of junkers and buy one. Or just get rid of 
> all but what I drive. That would probably be the smart thing to do.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:36 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
> > chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
> > collect cars for you.
> > 
> > Local story yesterday or day before, small plane crashed, so injuries. 
> > Plane came down in some big trees, but had a parachute. Get a plane with a 
> > parachute built in!
> > 
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
---
Good ideas. Be sure and teach wife to fly. That way you'll have some relief on 
the long flight to R.I.
Gerry
 


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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2020 at 7:14 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Are you building one of those airplanes Mitch?

Only in my dreams. 
First started dreaming in 2018 when I found an ad for an unbuilt 25 year old 
Lancair 235 kit for $8k.
It appears that Tailwind (fixed gear) falls between 2 seat Lancair (retracts) 
and RV-8 (fixed) in efficiency / straight line speed, and should be cheaper 
than either. Making the fuselage a lifting body was apparently a stroke of 
genius, it's not as beautiful as a Lancair but it's pretty darn fast for fixed 
gear, especially considering the age of the design. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You'd still need to use a PSRU of some sort for reasonable power and prop
speeds. I'm not a fan of those either.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 6:08 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I'd like to use the current GM LE2 1.4L. Very lightweight and
> 'turbo-normalized'.
> But you've got to wind it up past 3000rpm to get serious power, which
> means a small propeller...
> (I am not a fan of Subaru or Mazda engines with gearboxes)
> Mitch.
> > On January 4, 2020 at 3:01 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Tailwind for the win! They even used 215 aluminum olds via turned around
> > backwards with the prop bolted to the flywheel at about 160hp in those
> > things.
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Are you building one of those airplanes Mitch?

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 4:08 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I'd like to use the current GM LE2 1.4L. Very lightweight and
> 'turbo-normalized'.
> But you've got to wind it up past 3000rpm to get serious power, which
> means a small propeller...
> (I am not a fan of Subaru or Mazda engines with gearboxes)
> Mitch.
> > On January 4, 2020 at 3:01 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Tailwind for the win! They even used 215 aluminum olds via turned around
> > backwards with the prop bolted to the flywheel at about 160hp in those
> > things.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I'd like to use the current GM LE2 1.4L. Very lightweight and 
'turbo-normalized'. 
But you've got to wind it up past 3000rpm to get serious power, which means a 
small propeller...
(I am not a fan of Subaru or Mazda engines with gearboxes)
Mitch. 
> On January 4, 2020 at 3:01 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Tailwind for the win! They even used 215 aluminum olds via turned around
> backwards with the prop bolted to the flywheel at about 160hp in those
> things.

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

If you want to see some of the oldest airframes still in regular service, hang 
out at KMIA or KFLL and watch the cargo terminals. There are tons of old 
aircraft still flying cargo into and out of South and Central America.

I can recall seeing 707s and even the occasional DC-3 there. I’m sure the DC-3s 
are long gone, but I’ll bet there’s still a bunch of old stuff down there.

-D


> On Jan 4, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Eventually the fuselage or wings will get enough cracks they aren't economic 
> to repair as the pressurization cycles accumulate.  At some point the risk of 
> massive failure will outweigh the cost to replace, and they will be broken up.
> 
> Very few DC-8 or 707's left, ditto for 727's and early model 737's.  They 
> have all exceeded their economic life, and were broken up for the aluminum.  
> I believe there are two complete Lockheed Super Constellations left -- one in 
> Australia and The Columbine, Eisenhower's AF1 that was still in flying 
> condition in the early 2000's at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH.  
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Eventually the fuselage or wings will get enough cracks they aren't economic to 
repair as the pressurization cycles accumulate.  At some point the risk of 
massive failure will outweigh the cost to replace, and they will be broken up.

Very few DC-8 or 707's left, ditto for 727's and early model 737's.  They have 
all exceeded their economic life, and were broken up for the aluminum.  I 
believe there are two complete Lockheed Super Constellations left -- one in 
Australia and The Columbine, Eisenhower's AF1 that was still in flying 
condition in the early 2000's at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH.  
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

No    but some airframes endure more hours and TO/L cycles than others.


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
January 4, 2020 at 1:50 PM
Arent' planes ageless, so long as they are properly maintained?



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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

portholes for your 2 holer?


Craig via Mercedes 
January 4, 2020 at 12:08 PM
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:05:29 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes

Maybe some non-aircraft use?


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Sure they can fly forever, but none of the metal may be the same.

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Tailwind for the win! They even used 215 aluminum olds via turned around
backwards with the prop bolted to the flywheel at about 160hp in those
things.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 10:32 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On January 4, 2020 at 11:35 AM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the
> chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to
> collect cars for you.
>
> I forget, did Don ever get the Tailwind airworthy?
> If so, maybe he and Kaleb could fly to RI together at 150 kts.
> But not this year, if Kaleb is taking the family to Maine.
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Arent' planes ageless, so long as they are properly maintained?

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 1:18 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> My Dad's plane for 35 years is still flying - N9895A, as is my first
> aircraft - N76915.
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 2:55 AM M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=3627H
> >
> > Me dad's old plane up until he passed in 1983.  I had about 50 hours in
> it
> > myself back then.
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

That should be "no injuries" in the plane crash, thanks to the parachute. Darn 
autocorrect!

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jan 4, 2020 11:48:20 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes :

> Maybe I can sell or half my fleet of junkers and buy one. Or just get rid of 
> all but what I drive. That would probably be the smart thing to do.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> > On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:36 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
> > chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
> > collect cars for you.
> > 
> > Local story yesterday or day before, small plane crashed, so injuries. 
> > Plane came down in some big trees, but had a parachute. Get a plane with a 
> > parachute built in!
> > 
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> > 
> > Jan 3, 2020 11:35:42 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes :
> > 
> > 
> > > Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an 
> > > aircraft that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. 
> > > I am current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a 
> > > Continental DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is 
> > > still in service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for 
> > > anybody who might care.
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > 
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

My Dad's plane for 35 years is still flying - N9895A, as is my first
aircraft - N76915.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 2:55 AM M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=3627H
>
> Me dad's old plane up until he passed in 1983.  I had about 50 hours in it
> myself back then.
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Nope, though I'm still working on it - did a bunch of welding yesterday,
will cut and fit tubes for welding today. I'm expecting a cruise of between
165 and 170 knots.

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 11:32 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I forget, did Don ever get the Tailwind airworthy?
> If so, maybe he and Kaleb could fly to RI together at 150 kts.
> But not this year, if Kaleb is taking the family to Maine.
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:05:29 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I'm using them to keep plans from blowing around --- they are too heavy
> to use in any of my aircraft.

Maybe some non-aircraft use?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I'm using them to keep plans from blowing around --- they are too heavy to
use in any of my aircraft.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 11:04 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
> Hm ... Have you figured out any use for them?
>
> Craig
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2020 at 11:35 AM Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
> chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
> collect cars for you.

I forget, did Don ever get the Tailwind airworthy?
If so, maybe he and Kaleb could fly to RI together at 150 kts. 
But not this year, if Kaleb is taking the family to Maine.

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

If you just went on the extreme low end average of about $500 per car probably 
around $40k. On the extreme low end. If the time was taken to get the ones 
running that need to be, or actually price and sell them individually I would 
not be surprised at $100k. Realistically though I have a ton of parts cars, and 
parts that I’m probably never going to use. On a rare occasion something might 
come up I need a part off of and it’s pretty nice. I also have a bunch of 
project cars I probably will never get to. If I could get it down to maybe 10 
projects and enough parts cars to support them I might be doing good. That is 
in addition to the 8 or so daily drivers they come into and out of circulation. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> There are no “Kleb cars” in the airplane world. If there were, there would 
> be a lot of dead people.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what do you think your “fleet of junkers” is worth? 
> Maybe you could do a “bulk sale” to someone...
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2020, at 11:48 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe I can sell or half my fleet of junkers and buy one. Or just get rid of 
>> all but what I drive. That would probably be the smart thing to do.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:36 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
>>> chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
>>> collect cars for you.
>>> 
>>> Local story yesterday or day before, small plane crashed, so injuries. 
>>> Plane came down in some big trees, but had a parachute. Get a plane with a 
>>> parachute built in!
>>> 
>>> Max Dillon
>>> Charleston SC
>>> 
>>> Jan 3, 2020 11:35:42 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes :
>>> 
 Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
 that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am 
 current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a 
 Continental DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is 
 still in service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for 
 anybody who might care.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

There are no “Kleb cars” in the airplane world. If there were, there would be a 
lot of dead people.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think your “fleet of junkers” is worth? 
Maybe you could do a “bulk sale” to someone...

-D


> On Jan 4, 2020, at 11:48 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maybe I can sell or half my fleet of junkers and buy one. Or just get rid of 
> all but what I drive. That would probably be the smart thing to do.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:36 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
>> chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
>> collect cars for you.
>> 
>> Local story yesterday or day before, small plane crashed, so injuries. Plane 
>> came down in some big trees, but had a parachute. Get a plane with a 
>> parachute built in!
>> 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> Jan 3, 2020 11:35:42 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes :
>> 
>>> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
>>> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am 
>>> current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental 
>>> DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in 
>>> service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody 
>>> who might care.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Maybe I can sell or half my fleet of junkers and buy one. Or just get rid of 
all but what I drive. That would probably be the smart thing to do.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:36 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
> chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
> collect cars for you.
> 
> Local story yesterday or day before, small plane crashed, so injuries. Plane 
> came down in some big trees, but had a parachute. Get a plane with a 
> parachute built in!
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Jan 3, 2020 11:35:42 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes :
> 
>> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
>> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am current 
>> watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental DC 10 
>> flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in service 
>> with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody who might 
>> care.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

So when are you going to buy a plane? You could then fly yourself to the 
chowda-Q, fly for work and write that off, fly Tin Man or Clay around to 
collect cars for you.

Local story yesterday or day before, small plane crashed, so injuries. Plane 
came down in some big trees, but had a parachute. Get a plane with a parachute 
built in!

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jan 3, 2020 11:35:42 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes :

> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am current 
> watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental DC 10 
> flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in service with 
> Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody who might care.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Airlines don't want DC-10s -- too expensive to operate compared to a 777 or 767 
with similar capacity.  However, that makes them 'cheap' by aircraft standards, 
they fly reasonably well, and with a few exceptions, are well built and strong. 
 

The design defects that cause issues with passenger use (weak floors, flat 
pressure bulkhead at the rear of the fuselage, inadequate tail surface, engine 
issues, etc) aren't  problems with hauling cargo.  Since they are in use 
currently with the Air Force, parts are readily available at reasonable prices, 
hard to turn them down.

FedEx bought a bunch of them when the airlines retired them, I'd guess will fly 
them until they either become too relatively expensive compared to retired 777 
or 767 aircraft or the military retires them and parts dry up.  

It's all about the lowest cost for the most freight hauled, and fuel 
consumption isn't the only thing to consider!  

I don't think Lockheed ever got a freight variant certified.

The 747 is a bit stronger, as it was designed to meet the military spec for the 
aircraft that ended up as the C5A -- if you can find it, the photograph of the 
first production model standing on it's tail (with a massive skid plate) 
meeting the C5A takeoff requirement is amazing.  So is the shot of the wet 
pavement minimum roll-out (4500 ft) -- the bottom flap section is vertical and 
maybe six feet off the ground.  
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

If it’s in the air or has been in the air within a few hours. If you’re a 
subscriber you can see a history of activity, although I believe you can see 
some information on the aircraft based on the tail number even if you’re not a 
paid member.

-D


> On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can you plug in a tail number and it shows you where it’s at?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve done the same on occasion. That and look up 899T (Dad’s V35 Bonanza) 
>> to see where it’s at. I’ll also plug them into Flight Radar and see where 
>> they’ve been lately, too.
>> 
>> https://www.flightradar24.com/27.94,-82.24/8
>> 
>> Interesting. I’m surprised at the number of red eyes I see. I thoguht the 
>> airlines had cut down on these significantly...
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2020, at 11:35 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
>>> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am 
>>> current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental 
>>> DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in 
>>> service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody 
>>> who might care. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

My understanding is fedex has a whole bunch of Dc 10s in their fleet. I guess 
they make good cargo jets. 

I’m really sad the 747 is being phased out for passenger use. I have never 
flown on one and would like to before you can’t anymore. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's amazing how long some of those old birds keep working -- someone 
> hauling freight crashed a Convair 240 last fall in northern Illinois I think, 
> built in 1951 or so and still running piston engines!
> 
> The DC-10 wasn't the worlds best designed or most advanced aircraft for it's 
> time, but like all Douglas aircraft, it's pretty tough.
> 
> Lockheed's L1011 was a much better design, but the market at the time could 
> not support two, let alone three, widebody long range aircraft, to say 
> nothing of being unable to support three major manufacturers and both the 
> DC-10 and L1011 went out of production fairly quickly.  
> 
> The AF bought DC-10s as airborne refueling aircraft, which is probably why 
> flying one for freight is viable.  L1011s are all out of service as far as I 
> know.
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Can you plug in a tail number and it shows you where it’s at?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’ve done the same on occasion. That and look up 899T (Dad’s V35 Bonanza) to 
> see where it’s at. I’ll also plug them into Flight Radar and see where 
> they’ve been lately, too.
> 
> https://www.flightradar24.com/27.94,-82.24/8
> 
> Interesting. I’m surprised at the number of red eyes I see. I thoguht the 
> airlines had cut down on these significantly...
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2020, at 11:35 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
>> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am current 
>> watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental DC 10 
>> flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in service 
>> with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody who might 
>> care. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

It was a mocked up "hybrid" -- and you are right, sure looks like a DC-7 or 
DC-6 fuselage with jet wings and screwy rear engine setup.

Deliberately NOT anything recognizable as a production aircraft to avoid the 
implication that some commercial aircraft wasn't safe.

And not flyable, with engines on the horizontal stabilizer.
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Wife was watching a movie this morning, “Fate is the Hunter” with Glenn Ford. 
It’s about an airline crash that is being investigated and Ford is an exec of 
the airline that owned the plane.

What was weird was the plane - it appeared to be some sort of mocked up version 
of a DC-7. The engine placement was quite unusual.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_Is_the_Hunter_(film)

-D

> On Jan 4, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's amazing how long some of those old birds keep working -- someone 
> hauling freight crashed a Convair 240 last fall in northern Illinois I think, 
> built in 1951 or so and still running piston engines!
> 
> The DC-10 wasn't the worlds best designed or most advanced aircraft for it's 
> time, but like all Douglas aircraft, it's pretty tough.
> 
> Lockheed's L1011 was a much better design, but the market at the time could 
> not support two, let alone three, widebody long range aircraft, to say 
> nothing of being unable to support three major manufacturers and both the 
> DC-10 and L1011 went out of production fairly quickly.  
> 
> The AF bought DC-10s as airborne refueling aircraft, which is probably why 
> flying one for freight is viable.  L1011s are all out of service as far as I 
> know.
> ___
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

It's amazing how long some of those old birds keep working -- someone hauling 
freight crashed a Convair 240 last fall in northern Illinois I think, built in 
1951 or so and still running piston engines!

The DC-10 wasn't the worlds best designed or most advanced aircraft for it's 
time, but like all Douglas aircraft, it's pretty tough.

Lockheed's L1011 was a much better design, but the market at the time could not 
support two, let alone three, widebody long range aircraft, to say nothing of 
being unable to support three major manufacturers and both the DC-10 and L1011 
went out of production fairly quickly.  

The AF bought DC-10s as airborne refueling aircraft, which is probably why 
flying one for freight is viable.  L1011s are all out of service as far as I 
know.
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve done the same on occasion. That and look up 899T (Dad’s V35 Bonanza) to 
see where it’s at. I’ll also plug them into Flight Radar and see where they’ve 
been lately, too.

https://www.flightradar24.com/27.94,-82.24/8

Interesting. I’m surprised at the number of red eyes I see. I thoguht the 
airlines had cut down on these significantly...

-D




> On Jan 3, 2020, at 11:35 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am current 
> watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental DC 10 
> flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in service with 
> Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody who might care. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=3627H

Me dad's old plane up until he passed in 1983.  I had about 50 hours in it
myself back then.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 11:04 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 22:55:54 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.aspx
>
> Thanks to you and Kaleb.
>
>
> > I have a half dozen brand new cabin windows for  DC10's - came as a
> > package with the other stuff I wanted at an auction 
>
> Hm ... Have you figured out any use for them?
>
>
> Craig
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 22:55:54 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.aspx

Thanks to you and Kaleb.


> I have a half dozen brand new cabin windows for  DC10's - came as a
> package with the other stuff I wanted at an auction 

Hm ... Have you figured out any use for them?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.aspx

I have a half dozen brand new cabin windows for  DC10's - came as a package
with the other stuff I wanted at an auction 

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 10:52 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N68052
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 3, 2020, at 10:42 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 22:35:23 -0600 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an
> >> aircraft that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up
> >> online. I am current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene
> >> of a Continental DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974
> >> and is still in service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd
> >> fact for anybody who might care.
> >
> > Yup, that's nerdy, all right.
> >
> > Where do you look them up? (I'm a nerd, too.)
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N68052

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2020, at 10:42 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 22:35:23 -0600 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an
>> aircraft that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up
>> online. I am current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene
>> of a Continental DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974
>> and is still in service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd
>> fact for anybody who might care. 
> 
> Yup, that's nerdy, all right.
> 
> Where do you look them up? (I'm a nerd, too.)
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 22:35:23 -0600 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an
> aircraft that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up
> online. I am current watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene
> of a Continental DC 10 flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974
> and is still in service with Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd
> fact for anybody who might care. 

Yup, that's nerdy, all right.

Where do you look them up? (I'm a nerd, too.)


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Aircraft nerding out

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Quite interesting 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2020, at 11:35 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Often times when I am watching movies or TV shows and there is an aircraft 
> that has an N number I can see I sometimes look them up online. I am current 
> watching The Shining from 1980 and am at the scene of a Continental DC 10 
> flying and looked it up. Plane was built in 1974 and is still in service with 
> Fedex. Anyway, just a little airplane nerd fact for anybody who might care. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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