This is what Joe Andrieu said
about "RE: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, " on 29 Jun 2007 at 0:04
> Someone somewhere is going to name this thing. It might be a journalist.
> It might be FF. It could be a blogger.
It might be Joe Andrieu...
> The idea that there is data embedded i
"Send to"? like the windows menu that lets you send something to a
folder, or a person, or a bluetooth device.
Could you call the functionality sendable data? Or maybe go back to my
earlier suggestion of reusable data?
Pelle W wrote:
Alex Faaborg skrev:
couldn't it rather be a description o
Alex Faaborg skrev:
couldn't it rather be a description of an action - like data extraction?
Yeah, maybe just name the button/menu "Send Data." I think the
sending is probably more important than the extraction.
-Alex
"Send data" sounds perfect to me - much simplier than extraction!
/ Pelle
_
couldn't it rather be a description of an action - like data
extraction?
Yeah, maybe just name the button/menu "Send Data." I think the
sending is probably more important than the extraction.
-Alex
On Jun 29, 2007, at 1:19 AM, Pelle W wrote:
Alex Faaborg skrev:
They imply opening or sa
Alex Faaborg skrev:
They imply opening or saving a completely separate document/file
The interface model doesn't necessarily have to actually match the
implementation model, but yeah, I'm still not a huge fan of the
attachments idea.
"Pointers" for: http://tinyurl.com/278y8g
"Hyperlayers" for
IL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Alex Faaborg
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:40 PM
To: Microformats Discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
I've been giving some thought to framing microformatted content as
"attachments,"
05) 705-8651
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Alex Faaborg
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:40 PM
> To: Microformats Discuss
> Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
>
I've been giving some thought to framing microformatted content as
"attachments," along with a little paper clip icon. This would
resonate with users who are familiar with email, but on the downside,
a lot of people have been trained that attachments=danger.
-Alex
On Jun 28, 2007, at 11:2
Paul Wilkins skrev:
From: "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|> Mozilla's user experience team is going to continue brainstorming the
best way to expose microformat detection to end users, along with the
rest of the mozilla community. I'll post updates to this list from
time to time, and it w
The thunderbird developers have been asking about microformats, so they
are definitely looking into it.
awesome!
will there be authoring tools in Thunderbird too?
I've been looking for years for some easy-to-use authoring software to
suggest to media publicists to embed machine-readable event
Off topic slightly: given that FF3 will (may?) have native support for
microformats, will Thunderbird?
The thunderbird developers have been asking about microformats, so
they are definitely looking into it. Previous discussions have been
about hCard, but other formats could of course be sen
On 6/28/07 5:28 PM, "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Probably none of us here is the right ones to decide something like
>> this...
>
> Fair enough, several other people have made this point as well. We
> are always open to feedback about microformat detection in Firefox 3,
> so if a
From: "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|> Mozilla's user experience team is going to continue brainstorming the
best way to expose microformat detection to end users, along with the
rest of the mozilla community. I'll post updates to this list from time
to time, and it will be interesting to
Probably none of us here is the right ones to decide something like
this...
Fair enough, several other people have made this point as well. We
are always open to feedback about microformat detection in Firefox 3,
so if anyone has any comments, please feel free to post them to this
list o
Ryan King skrev:
On Jun 28, 2007, at 6:13 AM, Frances Berriman wrote:
On 28/06/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Exactly! We need a brand and a website that introduces people to the
concept, tells them where to get the plugins or the right browsers and
possibly encourages them to put
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ryan
King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
On Jun 28, 2007, at 1:37 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
hQuote anyone? ;-)
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-Q
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
--
Andy Mabbett
_
On Jun 28, 2007, at 6:13 AM, Frances Berriman wrote:
On 28/06/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Exactly! We need a brand and a website that introduces people to the
concept, tells them where to get the plugins or the right browsers
and
possibly encourages them to put pressure on the
On Jun 28, 2007, at 1:37 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
hQuote anyone? ;-)
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-Q
-ryan
___
microformats-discuss mailing list
microformats-discuss@microformats.org
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That's great, I think we should all make an effort to test out some of
this functionality on other non-geeks and try and get an idea of how
it's received.
Maybe we can start a wiki page to gather this info?
Can I say again that I think this only applies to a small number of MFs,
mainly hCal a
Hi All,
I'm normally pretty quite on this list because I'm more of a usability
and front end designer than a programmer. I thought I'd chip in my
$0.02 though because this is such an interesting discussion.
I agree that the average user needs to be able to call this new
browser ability somethin
People seem to be put off by words like semantic or microformat. Maybe
we need to do some more research outside of this mailing list?
Does anyone have any ideas how we could design some research to try and
answer this? Some scenarios we could user test would be the difference
between a page wi
Yeah microformats do lots of great and different things, auto tagging
when someone saves a link is a good example of some useful functionality
that can just work without any new name. I think hCard and hCal are new,
this isn't something their web browser hasn't done before, and people
will want
I was using that as an example. I was just reiterating Andy's point that
this is something different which needs to be identified, a user needs
to understand that the website has to support a standard that matches
what their software is looking for. Otherwise it doesn't work. This can
then help
On 28 Jun 2007, at 15:59, Thom Shannon wrote:
yes, it's a "thing", it's different. FF3 can't just add any address
you see to your address book, its a specific kind of address that
just looks the same, and you need a browser or plugin or something
that understands that specific "thing"
So w
Off topic slightly: given that FF3 will (may?) have native support for
microformats, will Thunderbird?
-Original Message-
From: Thom Shannon
yes, it's a "thing", it's different. FF3 can't just add any address you
see to your address book, its a specific kind of address that just looks
the
On Jun 27, 2007, at 8:53 PM, Tara Hunt wrote:
Oh and non-experts/non-developers don't talk about data (or content,
really), they talk about:
addresses
photos
blog posts (now)
videos
events
reviews
resumes
etc.
SmartData is nice for us, but all of you are still thinking like
developers ('cause
yes, it's a "thing", it's different. FF3 can't just add any address you
see to your address book, its a specific kind of address that just looks
the same, and you need a browser or plugin or something that understands
that specific "thing"
So whats the thing called, micro-what? or "Resuable Da
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David Thompson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
We need a way to get across to people that content can be lifted out
of pages and used in useful ways, when those pages support it. And
people need to call it something. Maybe it should just be "Reusable
Information".
Im not advocating a name that catches all microformats, just the ones
that are useful to someone who wants to reuse data from a webpage. hCa*
and maybe a couple of others.
Why does this need a user facing name? Well it's going to be a very long
time before microformats are truely ubiquitous, s
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes
Yeah, which is why I dont think we should throw away all that effort
but use it. Design a logo that echoes the MF logo, maybe even base the
name on it?
Microform
Microtag
Microcontent (which perhaps covers compound mic
On 28 Jun 2007, at 14:40, Thom Shannon wrote:
I get your point, but as Alex pointed out people are interested in
this microformats thing but dont want to call it that, journos are
refusing to talk about it because "the term 'microformats' would
only appeal to developers, and not the average
Thom Shannon wrote:
I get your point, but as Alex pointed out people are interested in this
microformats thing but dont want to call it that, journos are refusing
to talk about it because "the term 'microformats' would only appeal to
developers, and not the average reader"
As it should be: th
I get your point, but as Alex pointed out people are interested in this
microformats thing but dont want to call it that, journos are refusing
to talk about it because "the term 'microformats' would only appeal to
developers, and not the average reader"
We need a way to get across to people th
Not to suggest a change to the name but when you compare the size of the
specs for the Elemental Microformats such as XFN, VoteLinks, and
Rel-Nofollow with the Compound Microformats such as hCard, hCalendar and
hReview, it seems like the latter might be better suited under the
umbrella of "mini-for
On 28/06/07, Jon Tan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Frances Berriman wrote:
> [...] As is the microformats
> principle, perhaps we should see what turns up naturally in the wild
> as the way people describe such pages and go with that as a guide.
Maybe this is over simplistic but my mum understands
Frances Berriman skrev:
On 28/06/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Exactly! We need a brand and a website that introduces people to the
concept, tells them where to get the plugins or the right browsers and
possibly encourages them to put pressure on their web guys to implement
them, "
Frances Berriman wrote:
[...] As is the microformats
principle, perhaps we should see what turns up naturally in the wild
as the way people describe such pages and go with that as a guide.
Maybe this is over simplistic but my mum understands "download".
That seems to me to be the most natural
On 27 Jun 2007, at 23:09, Thom Shannon wrote:
I know this topic comes up a lot and we'd all like to see
Microformats change the lives of millions of ordinary internet
users, that's why we're all here!
My friend just asked me an interesting question, is Microformats
the right name for it?
On 28/06/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Exactly! We need a brand and a website that introduces people to the
concept, tells them where to get the plugins or the right browsers and
possibly encourages them to put pressure on their web guys to implement
them, "Want x's on your site? Th
Exactly! We need a brand and a website that introduces people to the
concept, tells them where to get the plugins or the right browsers and
possibly encourages them to put pressure on their web guys to implement
them, "Want x's on your site? Then use Microformats"
Alex Faaborg wrote:
One reas
One reason to consider having both an implementation-level name and
an interface-level name: Mozilla has had multiple inquiries from
reporters in the mainstream media who wanted to cover microformats in
stories about the future of the Web browser, but they then later
backed out because the
Yeah, which is why I dont think we should throw away all that effort but
use it. Design a logo that echoes the MF logo, maybe even base the name
on it?
Microform
Microtag
It will be a subset of the full range of microformat standards but
clearly part of the same thing.
Andy Mabbett wrote:
I
On 28/06/07, Andy Mabbett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alex
Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>this description would finish the sentence "features of Firefox 3
>include support for offline Web applications, private browsing,
>blocking malware, and __[user facin
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alex
Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
this description would finish the sentence "features of Firefox 3
include support for offline Web applications, private browsing,
blocking malware, and __[user facing way of saying microformat
detection]__"
...data d
f Of Tara
Hunt
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:50 PM
To: Microformats Discuss
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] microformats for normal people, like my mum
Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering
how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is.
I've thought a
HyperSense?
David Janes wrote:
On 6/28/07, Alex Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Right, we need a general user facing way of describing microformat
detection, in order to describe the various applications (like Web
browsers, feed readers and extensions like Operator) that let the
user take a
I just think it would be good to bring these handy microformat driven
functions under a banner that isn't confused by the other things
microformats do. The idea of pulling these bits of data out of a page
and using them elsewhere is one of many features of microformats and
something that people
Alex Faaborg skrev:
Therefore, uFs don't need a user-facing name - their
applications do.
If Operator and Firefox 3 are in a category of uF enabled
applications, what should that category of applications be called? Or
another way of putting it:
Feed Readers :: RSS
__ :: microformats
I wo
On 28/06/07, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 6/28/07, Alex Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Right, we need a general user facing way of describing microformat
> detection, in order to describe the various applications (like Web
> browsers, feed readers and extensions like Operator)
On 6/28/07, Alex Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Right, we need a general user facing way of describing microformat
detection, in order to describe the various applications (like Web
browsers, feed readers and extensions like Operator) that let the
user take actions on microformatted content.
Therefore, uFs don't need a user-facing name - their
applications do.
Right, we need a general user facing way of describing microformat
detection, in order to describe the various applications (like Web
browsers, feed readers and extensions like Operator) that let the
user take actions on
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alex
Faaborg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
microformat UI design for Firefox 3
when the user hovers the mouse over an area of the page that contains
microformatted content, we will change the cursor to display the
associated application (or a generic icon if
On 28/06/07, Pelle W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 6/27/07, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering
>> how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is.
>>
>> I've thought about this before...I can see the specific microfor
On 6/27/07, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering
how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is.
I've thought about this before...I can see the specific microformats,
like hCard and hCal and hReview being public facing..
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Miles Fidelman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Paul Wilkins wrote:
>> From: "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> It should look like magic. What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote about
>>> technology and magic?
>>
>> it's not rocket science that we're doing here, it's toughe
>
> A lot of the power of MF reminds me of Smart Tags in Office XP,
> maybe we could look to the way that was marketed and some
of the UI
> stuff it did was really good.
I haven't seen the Smart Tags stuff (where do I find it?)... could it be
somehow adapted for use with microformats?
... or
For me, the question is what does the non-developer end-user
perceive when they see the "SmartData" icon? How does that relate
to their world? It isn't about the formatting or the HTML tags...
Those are things that end-users don't really care about or even
conceptuallize.
In case anyone
Paul Wilkins wrote:
From: "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It should look like magic. What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote about
technology and magic?
it's not rocket science that we're doing here, it's tougher -
usability for the masses.
The Clark quote is "any sufficiently advanced technolog
On 6/27/07, Tara Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering
how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is.
[snip]
It should look like magic. What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote about
technology and magic?
T
I agree. I'm not s
From: "Tara Hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Personally, I'd love it all to be invisible and have more tools for
non-expert content producers to input plain text into stuff that spits
out properly marked up pages and other tools (like browsers and plug
ins and sites) that consume these well-marked up pa
Oh and non-experts/non-developers don't talk about data (or content,
really), they talk about:
addresses
photos
blog posts (now)
videos
events
reviews
resumes
etc.
SmartData is nice for us, but all of you are still thinking like
developers ('cause, duh, you ARE developers!).
T
On 6/27/07, Tara
Although I heart the idea of language for non-experts, I'm wondering
how public facing Microformats, as a general term, is.
I've thought about this before...I can see the specific microformats,
like hCard and hCal and hReview being public facing...and, in reality,
these are pretty descriptive. Ma
Alex Faaborg wrote[edited for chronology]:
> On Jun 27, 2007, at 4:52 PM, Thom Shannon wrote:
> > Yeah, exactly that kind of thing.
> >
> > A lot of the power of MF reminds me of Smart Tags in Office XP,
> > maybe we could look to the way that was marketed and some
> of the UI
> > stuff it did w
From: "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I'm a little wary of associating microformats too closely with Smart Tags
or IntelliSense given the massive public outcry Microsoft received when
they considered including the feature in IE6. There are obviously some
very important distinctions betwe
I'm a little wary of associating microformats too closely with Smart
Tags or IntelliSense given the massive public outcry Microsoft
received when they considered including the feature in IE6. There
are obviously some very important distinctions between the two
systems, (microformats are op
From: "Alex Faaborg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I definitely agree that the microformats community should consider a user
facing name. Similar to how RSS is exposed in Firefox to the user as "Web
Feeds" and microsummaries are exposed to the user as "Live Bookmarks,"
microformat detection in Firefo
Yeah, exactly that kind of thing.
A lot of the power of MF reminds me of Smart Tags in Office XP, maybe we
could look to the way that was marketed and some of the UI stuff it did
was really good.
IntelliTags
Infolets
Infobits
Open Smart Tags? ;-)
Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote:
Hello Thom,
I definitely agree that the microformats community should consider a
user facing name. Similar to how RSS is exposed in Firefox to the
user as "Web Feeds" and microsummaries are exposed to the user as
"Live Bookmarks," microformat detection in Firefox 3 is going to need
a name. What does
Hello Thom,
On 6/27/07, Thom Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
Just an idea, but maybe we could have a secondary name, and an end user
facing site showing what you can do with these things.
We could call it: "Intelligent Web Pages" or "Smart Web Pages"
Web pages that are "intelligent
I know this topic comes up a lot and we'd all like to see Microformats
change the lives of millions of ordinary internet users, that's why
we're all here!
My friend just asked me an interesting question, is Microformats the
right name for it? And I said yeah, that's what they are, small format
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