Well the MoQ Discus group will surprise you. A Libertarian-Socialist?
Hmmm... Sounds more like a Socialist with Libertarian ideas.
As a card carrying Libertarian and activist I think I better stand up.
I find it hard to believe that those that tout the MoQ could advocate
Socialist
I have only personally witnessed modern California and East Germany (DDR).
The DDR I think I understood but some of the woolly thinking coming out of
the Left in California. I can't understand why despite the complete defeat
of Socialist theories of economic the Left persists in it's drive
Wim
Nusselder and all,
Wim Nusselder
wrote:
Analogous to that, I think that
experiencing DQ may be fun for the drug user, but is not relevant for the world
at large. It
can't latch onto a (new) static
pattern ofvalue, because it is
forced on the user without any context of social
Gerhard all,
AreteLaugh wrote:
Libertarianism might be summed as 1) Property and personal ownership, 2)
Free interaction between consenting individuals and 3) A State that is
limited to assisting it's citizens assert these rights in the face of
aggression.
Gerhard wrote:
I think that anachism
Gerhard, Marcos, and all,
Gerhard wrote:
I think that is why we can agree based on MoQ, as I see economic activity
as a social
pattern of values. This have been discussed in depth earlier.
In Lila Pirsig states (Chapter 13 Paragraph 27 pg 163 Bantam HC 1991);
Second, there were moral codes
Wim Nuesselder
all,
I can be a little
scathing when I think something is obviousand people are being
unreasonable. It is not my intention to insult anyone but to make them
think. I freely admit that my style is very adverserial but please don't
take it personally. I only wish to root out
Wim
Nusselder,
Perhaps it is best
if we agree to disagree on this matter. I will conceed the their are many
paths to the top of the mountain and mine is surely not the only way to the top
(nor is yours). We obviously draw very different conclusions from
thehistoric example of the last
Gerhard,
I am unsure if we should be that troubled by our disagreements over these
issues. I actually became a Libertarian after adopting the MoQ precisely
because I think that the MoQ suports Libertarian ideas. Still we don't
argue about which painting in a gallery is real and which is not do
Gerhard, Clarke
and all,
Gerhard,
I quite agree with
you that music is definitely a static pattern of quality, no no danger
there. I wonder though if psychedelic music would have been invented
without the use of pschyedelic substances? Perhaps but perhaps not.
I think this underscores my
Marco and all,
Marco wrote:
3. Free trade
This supposed free trade is not free at all in the third world, where
capitalist
firms (not only American, of course) still persevere to act immorally
toward the
local populations and environments. It's cynical to say that it's fault of
the
Nigerian
Gerhard, Wim Nusselder and all,
Gerhard wrote:
The subjectivity in MoQ is still one of my headaches, it should not be
there.
I surmise that you are not an engineer. How many ways are there to build a
bridge? Which one is the true bridge? Nonsense. They all do the same
thing but there are
Andrea, Stephen, Sam, and all,
Andrea wrote,
so your point is: oppression does not exist; or in other words, blame on
the
oppressed. Why aren't they fighting and dying for their freedom? They must
really have no backbone.
My point is that to absolve the Nigerians for all responsibility for
Gerhard and all,
Glen wrote:
I surmise that you are not an engineer.
Gerhard wrote:
BTW - In fact I am a structural engineer and have been responsible for
disigning some
bridges and tall bildings, but my speciality is offshore structures.
I retract my surmise with surprise and apologise.
Gerhard, Sam, Elizaphanian and all,
Gerhard wrote:
I do not expect that the goverment is going to force people to experience
dynamic
qualities, but I have hopes for a goverment giving optimal possibility for
the people to
experience DQ.
I don't think the State can do that. I think the state
Sam and all,
Sam wrote:
(Compare the murder rates of inner city London with inner city Washington
DC). That
doesn't seem an outrageous claim.
Well it certainly seems like you avoided my previous question pretty
effectively. Do you only know what the experts tell you or do you know
where of
Marco,
You seem pretty uptight about this racist thing. You think you've never had
a rascist thought or never made a racist statement before? What are you
some kind of special uber human? I was fortunately enough to grow up around
all kinds of people and it's my observation that non-virulent
Andrea, Platt and all,
While i'm not keen on social pattern (the state) destroying intellectual
patterns (citizens), there are some animals (biological patterns) out there
that happen to share a species with you and me. Look at any case history of
a serial killer and it's clear that social
Horse and all,
I know this passage well and you raise some very good points here. And YES
this passage does give me considerable hesitation in putting forward my
previous arguments, yet let us try a thought experiment and reason together.
Thought Experiment:
Say you are the citizen of an
Gerhard, Marco, Andrea and all,
Just to be clear, I do not think the US is a country that is currently
following a Libertarian path especialily in the area of foreign policy.
While I wish this to be the case, it simply isn't. While the US might be
more Libertarian compared to other countries, I
Platt,
Platt wrote:
Frankly I was shocked to learn that the MOQ considers vegitarians to be
morally superior
to the vast majority of Americans and Europeans, at least as regards their
eating
habits. That I never picked up on this before illustrates once again that
one tends to
see what one
Rasheed and all,
Rasheed wrote:
If this person that you killed was only trying to take your wallet, would
it
still be 'good' to kill him?
I'd need more specifics to really analyze this correctly. If someone pulls
a lethal weapon and threatens to destroy me unless I comply with their
demands,
Horse and all,
Thought Experiment #2 is posted further down for anyone interested.
Glen wrote:
Thought Experiment:
Say you are the citizen of an inhabitated island in the south pacific
that
is a sovereign nation with a population of ten citizens. A serial killer
kills seven of the
Platt,
Yes a synonym for Quality, just don't expect to ever know exactly what it is
or to get to it. I'm sure however that you can find a church where you may
be able to obtain both. While this mailing list is in a way 'yelping about
Quality' it is also informative and assists in refining our
John,
Mango
Tiger Jason. Epsilon Timeliness Fruitbat. Scratch Smackingly
Children Honk.
Was
this post supposed to be in Chinese characters? Could anyone supply a
translation?
AreteLaugh
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of
Rasheed,
I guess you would need more specifics to properly analyze my example.
Let's
say that this guy pulls a gun on you in a dark alley and says, 'give me
your
wallet or i'll kill you.' Let's say you have a gun he doesnt see, and you
can either give him the wallet and be on your way, or
Rasheed,
Try http://www.reason.com/bi/guns.html or perhaps http://www.jpfo.org/ .
Reason is also a great site on a plethora of issues.
Well if you disarm the the population and the military decides to take over
and it comes down to an armed revolution your pretty screwed. Why are the
federal
Wim and all,
Wim wrote:
Do I understand rightly (from your 2/7 9:48 -0700 post to Marco) that
your real libertarianism implies that the US should not deploy its
army outside its own borders at all and that a really libertarian
population would boycott US arms manufacturers when they export
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