Re: Convert to inline
Em Dom, 07 Jul 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: No you only have to use turbo filename but maybe you use GIOS routines?? With a Hello world! program? No way. =) Well, I'll try again... ByE! -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Teenager: Having tunnel vision and selective hearing. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Em Qua, 03 Jul 2002, Patriek Lesparre escreveu: So... is there any way of overriding this hang up, or another way of compiling my files into fMSX? Did you try it with NLMSX, or RuMSX? I need a MSX emulator which can be run on Linux, and RuMSX is Win32. NLMSX... I don't know. -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Against stupidity, the Gods themselves, contend in vain. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Em Qua, 03 Jul 2002, Frits Hilderink escreveu: TP 3.3 does not need MemMan. MemMan is needed to be able to use the GIOS. Well, but why does it keeps asking 4 MemMan? Is there any conf switch that I should turn on? -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria I'm a nobody, nobody is perfect, therefore I'm perfect. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
No you only have to use turbo filename but maybe you use GIOS routines?? Gtz Richard Bosch Ricardo Jurczyk To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pinheiro cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Convert to inline m.br Sent by: owner-msx@sta ck.nl 06-07-2002 21:48 Please respond to msx Em Qua, 03 Jul 2002, Frits Hilderink escreveu: TP 3.3 does not need MemMan. MemMan is needed to be able to use the GIOS. Well, but why does it keeps asking 4 MemMan? Is there any conf switch that I should turn on? -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria I'm a nobody, nobody is perfect, therefore I'm perfect. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Is there somebody who has a working source for MBWave? If so, can we use it? Or can somebody modify this source (I can mail it if necessary), so we can use it? Thanks, Raymond -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
If I can rightly remember, there is a Moonblaster replayer routine into the Laammassaari (or anything like that sorry pals) libs. True, but these are only for FM-PAC or Music Module and not for Moonsound. And we would like to include Moonsound music... BTW: A friend of mine once wrote a inline generator (in TP) which worked nicely. As soon as I have my 2nd PC back (it has a 5,25 drive), I'll dig into my old 5,25 discs, and I hope I'll find some old (and nice) TP routines. I hope you will find the inline generator and some nice routines, I'm looking forward for them! Raymond -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Em Dom, 30 Jun 2002, The MSX Files escreveu: I Know -- My breakfree game is almost finished, but still lacks music; but it's done in Pascal and with help of Lamassari libs, and it's coming along very nicely. If I can rightly remember, there is a Moonblaster replayer routine into the Laammassaari (or anything like that sorry pals) libs. Yeah, but that's to people who knows assembly. I know a little bit, but as they were saying I don't know enough to write a game. I'm learning - and may some day even write some game in 100% ASM, but not right now. Should this stop me from making anything for MSX? If I stop to learn how to do everything in ASM, I'll probably loose interest when I finally get to understand everything. Meanwhile, I am doing what I can with what I have. Well, I've a serious personal problem with Z80 ASM... But I like to code! =) Hmmm... I don't know... Nemesis 1 is very simple (ok, just counting the scroll, and the ships shooting each other, not using loads of different weapons) - if you use MSX2+ scrolling features, I quite don't see how a game like this can't be made in C or even in Pascal. Maybe not so fast as it is. BTW: A friend of mine once wrote a inline generator (in TP) which worked nicely. As soon as I have my 2nd PC back (it has a 5,25 drive), I'll dig into my old 5,25 discs, and I hope I'll find some old (and nice) TP routines. =) ByE! -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Abandon all hope, ye who press [ÄÙ] here... -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Em Dom, 30 Jun 2002, Hans Otten escreveu: HELP the guys instead of telling how wrong they are to try to code in what they want it to and feel comfortable with. Prejudice and knowing it all better certainly does not help. Raymond, Richard, i tried to collect all i could find on Turbo Pascal on MSX on my site. Especially the Kari Lammaasari libraries and the Graphpak libraries and the Turbo Pascal with GIOS are worthy of study. And if you have something working, i would be happy to publish it to help others. Some time ago I started to write docs about every TP routine I could find, in order to help others who wants to use TP to code. I'll look after these material soon, and if it's in English, I'll place it in Funet, or any other place to help others. ByE! PS: One of my... Duties as a teacher is to teach algorithms and Pascal in a local university here in Rio de Janeiro. I've prepared my lectures into a 80-page Postscript file, which can be a good way of learning Pascal for Portuguese-speakers. BTW, I want to add some MSX-specific chapters... =) -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria Te ky o my kybord ha litl dfect. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
BTW, I've tried to run Memman into fMSX, but I haven't been successful. But first let me explain my problem: It's much easier 2 me 2 code into my Linuxbox (a Duron 700, named Aragorn into my home LAN), test, and finally run into the MSX, than to code into my Turbo-R (he's the ring bearer, Frodo!). Hmm... So, as a TP programmer (sorry C-friends), it would be better to write the code using joe, nano, pico, vi, emacs, ed or another Linux text editor, copy it to a diskimage and into fMSX, compile and execute. No problems until this step. But TP 3.0 is not a command-line compiler, which makes me lose time, loading-TP-interface, opening-the-program-into-TP, compiling-it, etc. Finally, I've tried TP 3.3, which is command-line driven. Wow, great. But it needs Memman into memory to be run. Hmm... And Memman hangs fMSX. So... is there any way of overriding this hang up, or another way of compiling my files into fMSX? Any ideas are welcome, except those code in Asm, dudez feelings. =) ByE! PS: The 5,25 drive that I mentioned before is into my second PC... Boromir. And yes, the other MSXs will be named Samwise, Meriadoc and Peregrin, as you can suppose. My Palm IIIxe is the dwarf... Yes, Gimli. =) -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria If you can touch it and you can see it, it's real. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
So... is there any way of overriding this hang up, or another way of compiling my files into fMSX? Did you try it with NLMSX, or RuMSX? Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: Convert to inline
TP 3.3 does not need MemMan. MemMan is needed to be able to use the GIOS. Frits -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Convert to inline BTW, I've tried to run Memman into fMSX, but I haven't been successful. But first let me explain my problem: It's much easier 2 me 2 code into my Linuxbox (a Duron 700, named Aragorn into my home LAN), test, and finally run into the MSX, than to code into my Turbo-R (he's the ring bearer, Frodo!). Hmm... So, as a TP programmer (sorry C-friends), it would be better to write the code using joe, nano, pico, vi, emacs, ed or another Linux text editor, copy it to a diskimage and into fMSX, compile and execute. No problems until this step. But TP 3.0 is not a command-line compiler, which makes me lose time, loading-TP-interface, opening-the-program-into-TP, compiling-it, etc. Finally, I've tried TP 3.3, which is command-line driven. Wow, great. But it needs Memman into memory to be run. Hmm... And Memman hangs fMSX. So... is there any way of overriding this hang up, or another way of compiling my files into fMSX? Any ideas are welcome, except those code in Asm, dudez feelings. =) ByE! PS: The 5,25 drive that I mentioned before is into my second PC... Boromir. And yes, the other MSXs will be named Samwise, Meriadoc and Peregrin, as you can suppose. My Palm IIIxe is the dwarf... Yes, Gimli. =) -- Ricardo Jurczyk Pinheiro - M. Sc. Numerical Modelling - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anime, ABUB, MSX, Linux, Gospel, ST, Rock, Math... Fudeba! - ICQ: 3635907 Sola Scriptura - Sola Gratia - Sola Fide - Solo Christi - Soli Deo Gloria If you can touch it and you can see it, it's real. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
RE: Convert to inline
DW ??? Do you mean DEFW? Did you try: foo EQU einde-04000h+start2 defw foo or else: foo EQU einde-04000h foo2 EQU foo+start2 defw foo2 Pierre -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Namens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: zondag 30 juni 2002 14:39 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: Convert to inline We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Yes I did, didn't work. I think the problem is in the last part start2. But is there a replayer which is only for use in ML programs, because we're trying to convert the basic replayer now... And perhaps that makes life easier. We do not need all the basic command, just some command in ML where we can start music with, fade, stop, load, etc. for MBWave and/or MBFM (we prefer MBWave though) Thanks for all your help! Raymond d-fader [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Convert to inline l 01-07-2002 02:40 Please respond to msx dude, did you try my code? I get the idea you are lost in all these off-topic CRAP messages about stuff not relating to the problem at all (why do I say this, I know this will result in 400 new messages about me talking crap again) anyway, try it! (probably won't work, but hey!) d-fader TeddyWareZ PS. Anima is cool! though yuna and tidus are the coolest ...hmmmf auron is cool too... and lulu... argh! FFX rules! ahum. EOM end of mail - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Convert to inline Yo guys lighten up No need in fighting each other we are all intitled to our own opinion. at this point we are making a game in TP we have about 80% finished now in the progress we have learned a bit of assembly to because of some restriction in TP but with help of inline we managed to do a few things we couldn't do otherwise. please help us with this problem and don't go fighting with each other because of the others opinion Gtz Raymond and Richard P.s. Maybe you can stop with this fighting and create an .INC file for us in the time you gane with not fighting ;-P |-+ | | Patriek Lesparre | | | newimage@xs4all.| | | nl | | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 17:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| Hans Otten wrote: From: Patriek Lesparre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geez... lighten up man! This is totally uncalled for. On the contrary, this was called for. Your personal style is quite confronting. Whatever... Then maybe I shouldn't help people at all anymore?! Haven't you learned not to fight fire with fire? Do try not to make elephants out of musquitos. And apparently you like to sort out arguments in public too! -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX
Re: Convert to inline
Yes I did, didn't work. I think the problem is in the last part start2. But is there a replayer which is only for use in ML programs, because we're trying to convert the basic replayer now... And perhaps that makes life easier. We do not need all the basic command, just some command in ML where we can start music with, fade, stop, load, etc. for MBWave and/or MBFM (we prefer MBWave though) Ah ofcourse.. then you certainly don't need the DB FE, DW start-bladedibla stuff.. that's just the basic header... If the MBWave replayer is anything like MB1.4 there should be easy to use commands that do exactly what you want.. I haven't seen the replayer myself :\ Anyway, getting rid of the basic header is a good start anyway. Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
we don't use .REL files Pascal but we use .REL files to convert the replayer to inline code, and then use the inline in pascal. Gtz Richard BTW: This discussion is getting interesting... I didn't know there was any other way to include ASM in pascal beside using inline -- how exactly the use of .rel files work?? -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Convert to inline
Hello, Tried to convert rel to inline, but something nice happens... We convert first an ASM file to rel with Compass, this seems to go OK. But when we try to convert it into Inline for use with TP, it genereates a code of just 128 bytres (the rel file is 18k!!), so this doesn't look quite well Does anyone know how to convert it or is there a special method to convert it. We use pmlink, are there perhaps other programs which can convert this? If so, where can I find them or can anybody send it to me? Thanks! Raymond P.s. We would like to convert the mwm player to inline for use in Turbo Pascal... -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
At 11:45 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: Hello, Tried to convert rel to inline, but something nice happens... We convert first an ASM file to rel with Compass, this seems to go OK. But when we try to convert it into Inline for use with TP, it genereates a code of just 128 bytres (the rel file is 18k!!), so this doesn't look quite well It's a bug in Compass. It makes slightly different .REL files compared to the ones made by M80 or Gen80. I would recommend making an overlay file of it or something... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
How can we include the patches and the mbmacros source files in gen80? because we are trying to convert the files to .rel with gen80 now but can't seem to include these files. Regards Raymond |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 13:01 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| At 11:45 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: Hello, Tried to convert rel to inline, but something nice happens... We convert first an ASM file to rel with Compass, this seems to go OK. But when we try to convert it into Inline for use with TP, it genereates a code of just 128 bytres (the rel file is 18k!!), so this doesn't look quite well It's a bug in Compass. It makes slightly different .REL files compared to the ones made by M80 or Gen80. I would recommend making an overlay file of it or something... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
We found how we can include the files. But we now get 2 errors. 434B638 and a,%1100 Expresion syntax in basic.gen 434E640 or a,h Expresion syntax in basic.gen are these compass commands or is there anything we can do to solve these errors?? Raymond and Richard |-+ | | raymond@msx4ever.| | | xs4all.nl| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 13:11 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| How can we include the patches and the mbmacros source files in gen80? because we are trying to convert the files to .rel with gen80 now but can't seem to include these files. Regards Raymond |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 13:01 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| At 11:45 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: Hello, Tried to convert rel to inline, but something nice happens... We convert first an ASM file to rel with Compass, this seems to go OK. But when we try to convert it into Inline for use with TP, it genereates a code of just 128 bytres (the rel file is 18k!!), so this doesn't look quite well It's a bug in Compass. It makes slightly different .REL files compared to the ones made by M80 or Gen80. I would recommend making an overlay file of it or something... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
At 13:39 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: But we now get 2 errors. 434B638 and a,%1100 Expresion syntax in basic.gen and %1100 434E640 or a,h Expresion syntax in basic.gen or h GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Pass 1 is OK now but we get 1 error on pass 2 we then get the error 0001 0090R 36dw start,einde-04000h+start2,start Numeric expected in basic.gen Gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:28 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| At 13:39 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: But we now get 2 errors. 434B638 and a,%1100 Expresion syntax in basic.gen and %1100 434E640 or a,h Expresion syntax in basic.gen or h GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
At 13:51 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: but we get 1 error on pass 2 we then get the error 0001 0090R 36dw start,einde-04000h+start2,start Numeric expected in basic.gen Hmm... try to put some spaces around the - and the + GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? Gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:43 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| At 13:51 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: but we get 1 error on pass 2 we then get the error 0001 0090R 36dw start,einde-04000h+start2,start Numeric expected in basic.gen Hmm... try to put some spaces around the - and the + GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Ypu have the GEN80 documentation? Else look at www.msxhans.msx2.com software Assembler packages - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 14:38 Subject: Re: Convert to inline We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Hey, Why not just make the game in assembly in stead of TP?. Imho this seems much more diffecult, and with assembly you've got a lot more oppurtunities ;) Greetz, Chaos TwZ We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Yep we like to make it in assembly but we have 1 major problem. we don't understand assembly :-( so we have to use somthing we do understand. and with all the inline we are learning a bit of assembly but not nearly enough for some serious coding Gtz Raymond and Richard stil working on a new game in TP ;-) |-+ | | Frederik| | | Boelens | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | | | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 15:46 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| Hey, Why not just make the game in assembly in stead of TP?. Imho this seems much more diffecult, and with assembly you've got a lot more oppurtunities ;) Greetz, Chaos TwZ We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Hello, We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. Aks the person you got the sourcecode from (?) but what does dw do? DW is a command, if i;'m correctly informed it means Define Word... Look it up in the manual... --[ MARI ]-- -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
If we would have a manual, it would work, but unfortunally a manual was not included. Saw in an earlier message that some one has scanned it, but it are all gif files, so need to print them now and read it! Raymond |-+ | | Mari van den| | | Broek | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | | | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 16:00 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --| Hello, We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. Aks the person you got the sourcecode from (?) but what does dw do? DW is a command, if i;'m correctly informed it means Define Word... Look it up in the manual... --[ MARI ]-- -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Yeah.. Assembly seems difficult at start, but anyone capable of programming a decent language (like BASIC, Pascal or C) should be able to master it. Z80 is ideal for beginners... Really, it looks a lot harder than it is. I'd personally never write a game with Toilet Paper :P Greetz, Patriek TwZ|Chaos wrote: Hey, Why not just make the game in assembly in stead of TP?. Imho this seems much more diffecult, and with assembly you've got a lot more oppurtunities ;) -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
I'd personally never write a game with Toilet Paper :P Me either, but maybe you can try to write it ON toilet paper :-) -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Butter, Cheese and Eggs can be played very well on toilet paper now let's quit with this off-topic nonsense ;) Greetz, Chaos TwZ I'd personally never write a game with Toilet Paper :P Greetz, Patriek TwZ|Chaos wrote: Hey, Why not just make the game in assembly in stead of TP?. Imho this seems much more diffecult, and with assembly you've got a lot more oppurtunities ;) -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
I'd personally never write a game with Toilet Paper :P Me either, but maybe you can try to write it ON toilet paper :-) Yeah, and then scan and ocr it! :P But it would probably be a shitty game anyways... -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Don't know any compiler for MSX except WBASS (but that's no compier) compass, but maybe you have to change the dw to dw start, ( einde - 04000h ) + start2 hope that helps :) d-fader - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Convert to inline We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
On Sunday 30 June 2002 15:46, Frederik Boelens wrote: Why not just make the game in assembly in stead of TP?. Imho this seems much more diffecult, and with assembly you've got a lot more oppurtunities ;) Programming in a higher level language is much easier, because you have things like type checking, easy control statements (if, for, while), subroutine calls with a parameter list, mathematical expressions are very compact etc. I wouldn't recommend using assembly unless you absolutely need it, to get maximum performance or to get maximum control over the system. We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? define word, it inserts a word in the output. For example, dw 01234h inserts 034h, 012h in the output (low byte is stored first in memory on Z80). It's rather similar to inline in TP, I guess. This particular dw is probably creating a BLOAD header. If so, the statement before it is db 0FEh (db is define byte). The BLOAD header looks like this: db 0FEh ; magic number dw start ; start address dw end ; end address (inclusive) dw exec ; execution address It's the same as the parameters you add after a BSAVE command in BASIC. Bye, Maarten -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Don't mention the sentence, that one isn't correct :) Actually what I meant was: 'Don't know any compiler for MSX except WBASS (but that's not a dedicated compiler), but maybe you have to change the dw to' sorry dudes d-fader - Original Message - From: d-fader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Convert to inline Don't know any compiler for MSX except WBASS (but that's no compier) compass, but maybe you have to change the dw to dw start, ( einde - 04000h ) + start2 hope that helps :) d-fader - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Convert to inline We now created the following situation in the source: dw start,einde-04000h dw start2,start and we get no errors anymore. But when we do this: dw start,einde-04000h+start2 The error is back. so it looks like the start2 is going wrong. but what does dw do? gtz Raymond and Richard |-+ | | Albert Beevendorp| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 14:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| At 14:10 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: I a m afraid that doesn't work :-( Have you got any more ideas?? - Put the dw's on seperate lines to see which part fails (I may have an idea though) - 04000h = 16384 - 04000h = 4000h - ... I'm running out of ideas right now... GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Maarten ter Huurne wrote: I wouldn't recommend using assembly unless you absolutely need it, to get maximum performance or to get maximum control over the system. Spoken like a true PC-programmer :/ IMO, with the state of Z80 cross compilers and/or native MSX compilers and given the power of the 3.58MHz Z80, it's hardly practical to program in anything higher than assembly for serious projects. Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
On Sunday 30 June 2002 15:46, Frederik Boelens wrote: Why not just make the game in assembly in stead of TP?. Imho this seems much more diffecult, and with assembly you've got a lot more oppurtunities ;) Programming in a higher level language is much easier, because you have things like type checking, easy control statements (if, for, while), subroutine calls with a parameter list, mathematical expressions are very compact etc. Ofcourse, you are right about the 'fact' that higher level languages are easier. but does it also counts on msx? Raymond had nothing but troubles implementing the mbwave replayer. And to make a good playable game with Turbo Pascal on msx seems very hard to me. Ofcourse assembly (and the algorythms) can be hard to learn to.. especially if you want to make demo's like Almost Real ;) But with some important preprogrammed routines you can make some nice things already very fast. I wouldn't recommend using assembly unless you absolutely need it, to get maximum performance or to get maximum control over the system. This doesn't go for all type of games, but don't you think most of them do need assembly to get a good gameplay? Greetz, Chaos TwZ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
At 16:23 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: Butter, Cheese and Eggs can be played very well on toilet paper now let's quit with this off-topic nonsense ;) Tic Tac Toe ;) me the 'taalpurist' :) GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Sorry BiFi, I knew it had another name... but I was too lazy to look for it ;) Greetz Chaos TwZ - Original Message - From: Albert Beevendorp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Convert to inline At 16:23 30-6-02 +0200, you wrote: Butter, Cheese and Eggs can be played very well on toilet paper now let's quit with this off-topic nonsense ;) Tic Tac Toe ;) me the 'taalpurist' :) GreeTz, BiFi Visit my Home Page at www.bifi.msxnet.org mail me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FTP: ftp.bifi.msxnet.org ICQ #36126979 -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Hans Otten wrote: HELP the guys instead of telling how wrong they are to try to code in what they want it to and feel comfortable with. Prejudice and knowing it all better certainly does not help. Geez... lighten up man! This is totally uncalled for. Nobody is saying they are wrong, all we are saying is there are other ways. They were already pointed to your site with all the good info, so that was helpful already. And I've seen several games programmed in TP (like Brisk), and while being relatively simple games (programming technically speaking) they were quite sluggish. (Not saying anything about the funfactor of the game, because I loved Brisk very much.) Anything technically more advanced than a puzzle game is just not suitable to be programmed in a higher language. And if someone is working on a 'simple' game, it's a good idea to learn assembly in the process. Because then, if you want to program a more difficult game concept later, you already know assembly so you can concentrate on the difficult parts. Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
From: Patriek Lesparre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geez... lighten up man! This is totally uncalled for. On the contrary, this was called for. Your personal style is quite confronting. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Hans Otten wrote: From: Patriek Lesparre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geez... lighten up man! This is totally uncalled for. On the contrary, this was called for. Your personal style is quite confronting. Whatever... Then maybe I shouldn't help people at all anymore?! Haven't you learned not to fight fire with fire? Do try not to make elephants out of musquitos. And apparently you like to sort out arguments in public too! -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
On Sunday 30 June 2002 16:36, Patriek Lesparre wrote: Maarten ter Huurne wrote: I wouldn't recommend using assembly unless you absolutely need it, to get maximum performance or to get maximum control over the system. Spoken like a true PC-programmer :/ I used to code everything in assembly, but I've learned a few things since then. I now see assembly as an optimisation strategy. There are some widely accepted rules about optimisation: 1. Only optimise if you need more performance. There is no point in spending effort to decrease CPU usage if your game already runs at full frame rate. Or to take 10ms off a loading routine. 2. Optimise the code that is called most often. If you make code that is running 1% of the time twice as fast, the program as a whole becomes 0.5% faster. If you make code that is running 50% of the time only 10% faster, the program as a whole becomes 5% faster. 3. Don't start optimising before the algorithm is working. Optimised code is usually harder to read and to maintain. I often programmed routines in BASIC, tested and improved them until they worked correctly and then wrote an assembly version. Development in assembly will take longer than in a higher level language. If it's not necessary to write a certain part of a program in assembly, why would you spend your time doing so when you could be doing something more useful or more fun? IMO, with the state of Z80 cross compilers and/or native MSX compilers and given the power of the 3.58MHz Z80, it's hardly practical to program in anything higher than assembly for serious projects. Much of Uzix is written in C and I would certainly call that a serious project. On Sunday 30 June 2002 16:42, Frederik Boelens wrote: Ofcourse, you are right about the 'fact' that higher level languages are easier. but does it also counts on msx? Raymond had nothing but troubles implementing the mbwave replayer. And to make a good playable game with Turbo Pascal on msx seems very hard to me. Raymond had problems getting an assembler compiling the MWM replayer. None of the problems mentioned were caused by Turbo Pascal, as far as I can tell. Ofcourse assembly (and the algorythms) can be hard to learn to.. especially if you want to make demo's like Almost Real ;) But with some important preprogrammed routines you can make some nice things already very fast. Indeed we couldn't have written Almost Real in anything but assembly. But if the focus of a demo would be graphics, music (Impact) or jokes (Snout), it can be written in a higher level language as well. This doesn't go for all type of games, but don't you think most of them do need assembly to get a good gameplay? It depends on the type of game. If you have a turn-based puzzle or strategy game without a CPU-intensive AI, assembly is not necessary. Simple action games (Pacman, Athletic Land) could work as well. Or adventures like Snatcher. Things you probably want to do in assembly are the music replayer and the graphics decrunching. Bye, Maarten -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Maarten ter Huurne wrote: 1. Only optimise if you need more performance. There is no point in spending effort to decrease CPU usage if your game already runs at full frame rate. Or to take 10ms off a loading routine. There is a point to it. Doing everything as fast as possible greatly improves battery life of handheld devices. Ofcourse you are right with all your points when speaking about PC. Development in assembly will take longer than in a higher level language. If it's not necessary to write a certain part of a program in assembly, why would you spend your time doing so when you could be doing something more useful or more fun? Sure... But look at the problems Richard is having with integrating the moonblaster player in his TP project. Hybrid development is not as easy on MSX as it is on PC! There's almost nothing in higher languages that can't be solved in assembly with some clever macro's and ready-made routines. Unless you're talking about object oriented stuff, but we're strictly talking MSX here. IMO, with the state of Z80 cross compilers and/or native MSX compilers and given the power of the 3.58MHz Z80, it's hardly practical to program in anything higher than assembly for serious projects. Much of Uzix is written in C and I would certainly call that a serious project. Heh... That's an OS, something completely different. Try programming a game like Nemesis in BASIC or Pascal... Or even C! On MSX, it's not doable. This doesn't go for all type of games, but don't you think most of them do need assembly to get a good gameplay? It depends on the type of game. If you have a turn-based puzzle or strategy game without a CPU-intensive AI, assembly is not necessary. Simple action games (Pacman, Athletic Land) could work as well. Or adventures like Snatcher. Which is what I was saying too... The games you mention are all relatively simple. A good shooting game or platform game just can't be done in a higher language on MSX. And even programming simple games in assembly allows you to polish them more! Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
Hi, I don't see this as fighting against eachother, and I hope the others won't too ;) I'm just trying to give my opinion. If you've already made 80% of the game in TP it would be a waste to throw it away indeed. At this moment I still think assembly is the best language for coding games, but maybe you can show me with your game I am wrong ;) Good luck! Chaos TwZ Yo guys lighten up No need in fighting each other we are all intitled to our own opinion. at this point we are making a game in TP we have about 80% finished now in the progress we have learned a bit of assembly to because of some restriction in TP but with help of inline we managed to do a few things we couldn't do otherwise. please help us with this problem and don't go fighting with each other because of the others opinion Gtz Raymond and Richard P.s. Maybe you can stop with this fighting and create an .INC file for us in the time you gane with not fighting ;-P |-+ | | Patriek Lesparre | | | newimage@xs4all.| | | nl | | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 17:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| Hans Otten wrote: From: Patriek Lesparre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geez... lighten up man! This is totally uncalled for. On the contrary, this was called for. Your personal style is quite confronting. Whatever... Then maybe I shouldn't help people at all anymore?! Haven't you learned not to fight fire with fire? Do try not to make elephants out of musquitos. And apparently you like to sort out arguments in public too! -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
At 06:13 PM 30/06/2002 +0200, you wrote: Maarten ter Huurne wrote: 1. Only optimise if you need more performance. There is no point in spending effort to decrease CPU usage if your game already runs at full frame rate. Or to take 10ms off a loading routine. There is a point to it. Doing everything as fast as possible greatly improves battery life of handheld devices. Ofcourse you are right with all your points when speaking about PC. I really think it goes for MSX as well. BASIC+ASM/Pascal+ASM/C+ASM can be quite powerfull and much easier to debug than 100% ASM. It's much easier to program too -- and with so few people programming nowadays for MSX, I really think everyone is welcome to program anything, any way they think it's the best. Development in assembly will take longer than in a higher level language. If it's not necessary to write a certain part of a program in assembly, why would you spend your time doing so when you could be doing something more useful or more fun? Sure... But look at the problems Richard is having with integrating the moonblaster player in his TP project. Hybrid development is not as easy on MSX as it is on PC! It is as long as you do all the coding, or people code for you. When you try to use other's work which wasnt ment to do this thing start to get complicated. I Know -- My breakfree game is almost finished, but still lacks music; but it's done in Pascal and with help of Lamassari libs, and it's coming along very nicely. There's almost nothing in higher languages that can't be solved in assembly with some clever macro's and ready-made routines. Unless you're talking about object oriented stuff, but we're strictly talking MSX here. Yeah, but that's to people who knows assembly. I know a little bit, but as they were saying I don't know enough to write a game. I'm learning - and may some day even write some game in 100% ASM, but not right now. Should this stop me from making anything for MSX? If I stop to learn how to do everything in ASM, I'll probably loose interest when I finally get to understand everything. Meanwhile, I am doing what I can with what I have. IMO, with the state of Z80 cross compilers and/or native MSX compilers and given the power of the 3.58MHz Z80, it's hardly practical to program in anything higher than assembly for serious projects. Much of Uzix is written in C and I would certainly call that a serious project. Heh... That's an OS, something completely different. Try programming a game like Nemesis in BASIC or Pascal... Or even C! On MSX, it's not doable. Why is that different? An OS need to be as fast as possible... but as Adriano once said, UZIX wouldnt be like hell to program. Which is what I was saying too... The games you mention are all relatively simple. A good shooting game or platform game just can't be done in a higher language on MSX. And even programming simple games in assembly allows you to polish them more! Hmmm... I don't know... Nemesis 1 is very simple (ok, just counting the scroll, and the ships shooting each other, not using loads of different weapons) - if you use MSX2+ scrolling features, I quite don't see how a game like this can't be made in C or even in Pascal. Greetz, Patriek -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html BTW: This discussion is getting interesting... I didn't know there was any other way to include ASM in pascal beside using inline -- how exactly the use of .rel files work?? []'s SLotman MSX Files ( http://www.msxfiles.cjb.net ) Megaram Project ( http://megaram.msxfiles.cjb.net ) -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: Convert to inline
dude, did you try my code? I get the idea you are lost in all these off-topic CRAP messages about stuff not relating to the problem at all (why do I say this, I know this will result in 400 new messages about me talking crap again) anyway, try it! (probably won't work, but hey!) d-fader TeddyWareZ PS. Anima is cool! though yuna and tidus are the coolest ...hmmmf auron is cool too... and lulu... argh! FFX rules! ahum. EOM end of mail - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Convert to inline Yo guys lighten up No need in fighting each other we are all intitled to our own opinion. at this point we are making a game in TP we have about 80% finished now in the progress we have learned a bit of assembly to because of some restriction in TP but with help of inline we managed to do a few things we couldn't do otherwise. please help us with this problem and don't go fighting with each other because of the others opinion Gtz Raymond and Richard P.s. Maybe you can stop with this fighting and create an .INC file for us in the time you gane with not fighting ;-P |-+ | | Patriek Lesparre | | | newimage@xs4all.| | | nl | | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | l| | || | || | | 30-06-2002 17:58 | | | Please respond to| | | msx | | || |-+ --- ---| | | | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Convert to inline | --- ---| Hans Otten wrote: From: Patriek Lesparre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geez... lighten up man! This is totally uncalled for. On the contrary, this was called for. Your personal style is quite confronting. Whatever... Then maybe I shouldn't help people at all anymore?! Haven't you learned not to fight fire with fire? Do try not to make elephants out of musquitos. And apparently you like to sort out arguments in public too! -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
