disclaimer: I have not reviewed this thread in its entirety.
Grant Edwards wrote on Sat, 2 May 2020
at 12:16:45 EDT in :
> _Nobody_ I work with uses an email client that properly displays
> plaintext as sent by mutt.
...
> Most of my family and friends do almost all of their e-mail on phones.
On Sat, May 02, 2020 at 04:16:45PM -, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Insisting that the world switch from HTML to plaintext for e-mail is
> just tilting at a windmill.
I don't insist that the world switch from HTML to plaintext. I do ask
that, at least, compatibility be maintained.
(By a similar
Il 02 maggio 2020 alle 10:51 Derek Martin ha scritto:
> In practice, it isn't really. The obvious "solution" is to render the
> message [...]
I understand that plain-text vs. html has a (tangential) relevance to
the topic at hand, but this link is getting more and more tenuous
as the Re:'s pile
On 2020-05-02, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 06:57:14PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> Moreover, you appear to be committing the logical fallacy called
>> "argumentum ad populum" (aka "majoritarianism").
>
> No, because accepted practice is determined by the majority (in this
> case
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 06:57:14PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> > When you're talking about a population of people, who is being
> > inconsiderate, those who do what the majority prefer, or the minority
> > who have made up their own mind that their way is better despite
> > what everyone else does?
On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 08:56:16AM -0400, Mark H. Wood wrote:
> Two cultures in contact, which do not share customs and manners, can
> disengage; they can fight; or they can agree on protocols that they
> *will* share, even though the protocols make no sense *within* either
> culture.
>
> So how
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 06:57:14PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:52:53PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
[snip]
> > which is how you have to define what is considerate. Inconsiderate is
> > doing something that is not preferred. That which is least preferred
> > is most
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 06:57:14PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:52:53PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 03:49:46PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> If you want to read my emails [...]
By which I meant "If you want to read emails that I have sent ...".
>>>
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:52:53PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 03:49:46PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 06:08:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 01:09:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:32:01AM -0500,
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 03:49:46PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 06:08:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 01:09:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> >> On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:32:01AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:17:12PM
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 06:08:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 01:09:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:32:01AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>>> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:17:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500,
Derek Martin wrote:
> Me personally, I just want the ability to render italics, to represent
> emphasis. And to be able to read what my boss sent me... whatever it
> might be.
Yes, I love mutt for its programmability but when you need to see
something your boss sent you, I think the
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 01:09:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:32:01AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:17:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> >> On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> >>> Sorry, but this is an archaic way of
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:32:01AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:17:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>>> Sorry, but this is an archaic way of looking at the problem.
>>> People have been doing this for decades
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:45:09PM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
> On 20200405, Akkana Peck wrote:
> > Is there any way to configure mutt to alert me at the top of the
> > message if there are any text/calendar or image/* attachments
> > anywhere in the message, even as part of a
On 20200409, Derek Martin wrote:
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:05:52AM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
Someone mention a Torpedo extension to Thunderbird recently. so I installed
Thunderbird just to try it. Nope: Thunderbird doesn't even have a preference
to send text only email.
Yes it does:
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 09:05:52AM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
> On 20200409, Derek Martin wrote:
> > And honestly, most mailers have the ability to avoid these attack
> > vectors--they just don't by default, because that's what the average
> > person wants. Mutt users typically are not average
On 20200409, Derek Martin wrote:
Just because the current batch of GUI MUAs does this does not mean
yours *needs* to. That would be the beauty of a GUI Mutt--it already
has the philosophy of not automatically exposing you to all those same
attack vectors. After all, text-based Mutt has exactly
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 12:26:43AM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 03:08:45PM -0400, Ben Boeckel wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote:
> >> On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Then again, maybe I should just move everything to
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 07:59:45AM -0400, Mark H. Wood wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:18:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > I've said it before--I too would love a mutt-based (or mutt-similar)
> > GUI mail client. Frankly, no matter how much I love Mutt (and you
> > know I do), trying to
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:17:12PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:09:55AM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> > Sorry, but this is an archaic way of looking at the problem. People
> > have been doing this for decades
On Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 00:26:43 +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 03:08:45PM -0400, Ben Boeckel wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote:
> >> Please remember that Google reads your mail.
>
>
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 03:08:45PM -0400, Ben Boeckel wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote:
>> On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Then again, maybe I should just move everything to gmail and be done
>>> with it.
>>
>> Please remember that Google
Mark H. Wood wrote:
> If I were condemned to use only one of those gooey-fied MUAs, I would
> be working on a plugin to configure-off all of the formatting, gather
> the attachments into a menu to be viewed or ignored as I choose, pop
> up an "are you sure?" dialog before following links, and
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 14:43:47 -0400, Kurt Hackenberg wrote:
> On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote:
>
> > Then again, maybe I should just move everything to gmail and be done
> > with it.
>
> Please remember that Google reads your mail.
I have been migrating to fastmail for my stuff
On 2020-04-07 22:18, Derek Martin wrote:
Then again, maybe I should just move everything to gmail and be done
with it.
Please remember that Google reads your mail.
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:18:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> I've said it before--I too would love a mutt-based (or mutt-similar)
> GUI mail client. Frankly, no matter how much I love Mutt (and you
> know I do), trying to make the case that Mutt's handling of modern,
> every-day common e-mail
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:09:55AM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> I'll assume you mean that the email has multiple parts or
>> attachments, one (or more) of which is an HTML file and one (or more)
>> of which is an image file, and that
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:18:37PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> I've said it before--I too would love a mutt-based (or mutt-similar)
> GUI mail client. Frankly, no matter how much I love Mutt (and you
> know I do), trying to make the case that Mutt's handling of modern,
> every-day common e-mail
On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 09:23:34PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
Sorry, but this is an archaic way of looking at the problem. People
have been doing this for decades now, has become the norm, common
practice, and really it is therefore WE who are being inconsiderate by
not accepting de facto
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:09:55AM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> I'll assume you mean that the email has multiple parts or attachments,
> one (or more) of which is an HTML file and one (or more) of which is an
> image file, and that the HTML file has an "img" element with a "src"
> attribute whose
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 02:29:02PM -0400, Fred Smith wrote:
> When God invented email, He intended that it be plain text! :)
> As such, rich-text/html/images in email is the spawn of the devil. :) :)
Ignoring the aspect about sky fairies inventing anything, this is
still largely untrue. Sure, in
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 07:18:42PM +0200, steve wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le 04-04-2020, à 09:41:59 +0200, Vegard Svanberg a écrit :
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I love Mutt.
>
> Me too.
>
> >However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> >tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 05:57:53PM -0500, Greg Marks wrote:
> I realize this isn't an answer to Vegard Svanberg's original question,
> but I think it's a point worth raising: isn't the fact that mutt is
> text-based a security feature?
>
> Thunderbird, which I consider the second-best e-mail
Akkana Peck wrote:
> Felix Finch writes:
> > On 20200405, Sam Kuper wrote:
> > > In the meantime, you can just reply to the message (which, after all,
> > > was sent as an email): "Thanks, I accept your invitation to the meeting
> > > at 5pm PDT on 5th May 2020."
> >
> > Now that's an idea I
On 20200405, Greg Marks wrote:
I realize this isn't an answer to Vegard Svanberg's original question,
but I think it's a point worth raising: isn't the fact that mutt is
text-based a security feature?
I have always used that as an excuse when corporate drones get annoyed with my
text email.
I realize this isn't an answer to Vegard Svanberg's original question,
but I think it's a point worth raising: isn't the fact that mutt is
text-based a security feature?
Thunderbird, which I consider the second-best e-mail client, does have
security settings to prevent it from automatically
On 20200405, m...@amrx.net wrote:
No! The ultimate goal should be do accept calendar invitations from your
calendar!
Your mail client is reserved for reading email. MIME attached ics files
to coordinate meeting attendance is an atrocity.
Not even the email client is that restricted. It is
On 20200405, Fred Smith wrote:
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:45:09PM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
On 20200405, Akkana Peck wrote:
>Is there any way to configure mutt to alert me at the top of the
>message if there are any text/calendar or image/* attachments
>anywhere in the message, even as part of
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 04:43:20PM -0400, Fred Smith wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:45:09PM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
>> On 20200405, Akkana Peck wrote:
>> >Is there any way to configure mutt to alert me at the top of the
>> >message if there are any text/calendar or image/* attachments
>>
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 01:08:05PM -0700, m...@amrx.net wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 08:48:35PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> If/when it becomes possible to RSVP, in a machine-readable fashion
>> directly from Mutt, to calendar-invites-sent-via-email, I'll switch
>> to that.
>
> No! The ultimate
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:45:09PM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
> On 20200405, Akkana Peck wrote:
> >Is there any way to configure mutt to alert me at the top of the
> >message if there are any text/calendar or image/* attachments
> >anywhere in the message, even as part of a multipart/alternative?
>
No! The ultimate goal should be do accept calendar invitations from your
calendar!
Your mail client is reserved for reading email. MIME attached ics files
to coordinate meeting attendance is an atrocity.
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 08:48:35PM +0100, Sam Kuper wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:19:58PM -0600, Akkana Peck wrote:
This happens for two reasons:
1. Mutt shows attachments at the bottom of a message, which was
reasonable in the days before everyone top-posted; but now I never
2. Calendar invites are often part of a MIME multipart/alternative:
I feel
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 08:05:29AM -0700, m...@amrx.net wrote:
> Truly, sending the human an E-Mail, to read, is a great response, but
> could trigger a frustrating conversation about auto populating
> calendar items, be prepared to defend your mutt way of life.
Been there, done that. Several
On 20200405, Akkana Peck wrote:
Is there any way to configure mutt to alert me at the top of the
message if there are any text/calendar or image/* attachments
anywhere in the message, even as part of a multipart/alternative?
I feel like I miss a lot in mail messages because mutt doesn't tell
me
Felix Finch writes:
> On 20200405, Sam Kuper wrote:
> > In the meantime, you can just reply to the message (which, after all,
> > was sent as an email): "Thanks, I accept your invitation to the meeting
> > at 5pm PDT on 5th May 2020."
>
> Now that's an idea I hadn't considered! I was thinking
Propagating the notion that E-Mail and Calendar are separate things is
probably the best thing to do, to undo their evil marriage. The calendar
related RFC's that I have looked at indicate that the protocols were
designed work and communicate completely independent of E-Mail, yet the
majority of
On 2020-04-04, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
> calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
I hever had that much trouble _reading_ HTML
On 20200405, Sam Kuper wrote:
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:06:13AM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
On 20200404, Sam Kuper wrote:
This ~/.mailcap works tolerably under Gnome [...]
I've been using something similar for several years, and one thing
missing from this is a way to respond to invites.
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:06:13AM -0700, Felix Finch wrote:
> On 20200404, Sam Kuper wrote:
>>This ~/.mailcap works tolerably under Gnome [...]
>
> I've been using something similar for several years, and one thing
> missing from this is a way to respond to invites. Perhaps it's an
>
On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 10:47:56AM +1000, raf wrote:
> For other document attachments, I use various mailcap
> filters to render things as text such as catdoc,
> xls2csv, mutt.octet.filter and mutt.vcard.filter by
> David A Pearson, vcalendar-filter by Martyn Smith etc.
I knew about some of
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 07:18:42PM +0200, steve wrote:
> I can display images, read pdf's, etc… but one thing I never managed
> to do is open an html file containing images. I mean, I can send the
> html part to firefox but the images don't follow.
>
> How do you guys cope with that?
Depends
On Sat Apr 04, 2020 at 09:41:59 +0200, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
I don't know how I would
Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love Mutt.
>
> However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
> calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
>
> My Holy Grail, which would be a
Honestly? I just filter between addresses.
I use this address soley for mailing lists and personal emails I know won't
contain HTML and if they do it's minimal enough to use elinks for. Everything
else I just send to a collection of junk gmail accounts that act as archives
for service emails
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:41:59AM +0200, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love Mutt.
>
> However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
> calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people
On 2020-04-04 03:41, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
Currently I'm running Mutt from a machine which I ssh into from 5 other
computers I use frequently (IMAP backend - self-hosted).
Suggestions? What does everyone else do?
Meaning Mutt runs on the same computer that runs your IMAP server, and
you
On 20200404, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Fred Smith [04-04-20 14:32]:
[...]
When God invented email, He intended that it be plain text! :)
As such, rich-text/html/images in email is the spawn of the devil. :) :)
amen, good only for advertising and junk mail but now w/o the cost of a
stamp.
* Fred Smith [04-04-20 14:32]:
[...]
> When God invented email, He intended that it be plain text! :)
> As such, rich-text/html/images in email is the spawn of the devil. :) :)
amen, good only for advertising and junk mail but now w/o the cost of a
stamp.
--
(paka)Patrick Shanahan
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 07:18:42PM +0200, steve wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Le 04-04-2020, à 09:41:59 +0200, Vegard Svanberg a écrit :
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I love Mutt.
>
> Me too.
>
> >However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> >tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture
Hi,
Le 04-04-2020, à 09:41:59 +0200, Vegard Svanberg a écrit :
Hi,
I love Mutt.
Me too.
However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
On 20200404, Sam Kuper wrote:
This ~/.mailcap works tolerably under Gnome:
text/calendar;
/home/sampablokuper/src/mutt_and_neomutt_and_related/mutt-filters/vcalendar-filter;
copiousoutput
vcalendar-filter is from https://github.com/terabyte/mutt-filters
I've been using something similar
* At 2020-04-04T09:41+0200, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> Suggestions? What does everyone else do?
I've documented my attachment opening setup here:
https://wtf.hijacked.us/wiki/index.php/Mutt#Open_attachments_on_remote_machine
It allows me to open the attachment menu (v) and press A on any
On Sat, 4 Apr 2020, at 09:41, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> Suggestions? What does everyone else do?
If you're already SSHing to your mutt instance, that is, using email
online-only, it doesn't like like webmail would be the worst bet you could
make. I can recommend Fastmail.com; their webmail
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:41:59AM +0200, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various tricks to
> deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments), calendar
> invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
AKA "stuff awkward people send"
* Vegard Svanberg [01-01-70 12:34]:
[...]
> However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
> calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
[...]
I run mutt on my server inside a tmux
Hei hei,
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:41:59AM +0200, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
> calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people send.
This is mostly
I set this up long ago and now at the age of 80 I am beginning
to forget what I did. Basically I have mutt set up so when the cursor
is on a message, typing 'v' shows the bits of it. If only html, or
if there are several sections I move the cursor to the html section.
I them hit 'm' and it opens
On Sat, Apr 04, 2020 at 09:41:59AM +0200, Vegard Svanberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love Mutt.
>
> However, I'm increasingly finding myself having to resort to various
> tricks to deal with HTML only emails (with picture attachments),
> calendar invites, and other oddities and awkward stuff people
I used sylpheed and claws-mail until recently when I switched to mutt. What
annoyed me most is that claws mail crashed occasionally and messed up
configuration and folder settings after the crash. For html mails which don't
render readable in text I have a binding to open them in an already
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