By nuances I mean more the phrasing and the length of notes, i.e. holding a
note just that tiniest fraction longer or shorter than would be written.
These, together with attack, are in my view among the most basic elements of
style and illustrate how, in many ways, style is inseparable from
Given that the writer only wrote 7 bars every other line, do we take
the rest of rhythm literally, as syncopated throughout, or a mistake?
In other words, is it really dotted crotchet, crotchet, quaver, or the
more common dotted crotchet, quaver, crotchet - ?
Hm, I'd been wondering this myself.
Fascinating, he makes it look so easy.
The other nsp stuff is also brillant, particularly the clough family.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Douglass [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:20 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] reed making
If anyone is
My understanding, confirmed with a native German-speaking friend last
night, is that Bordun is a musical process not connected to a
specific instrument (like continuo basso) and when used with the
pipes (Dudelsack) it refers to Brummpfeife/n, i.e. the drones.
This may be historically true,
According to German grammar, the 1. casus, Nominativ, undefined
pluralis (any), is Bordune. 1. casus Nominativ defined pluralis
(these) is Die Bordunen.
Can you refer me to any authority you are quoting here?
And what would the terminology be if you stuck to one language rather than a
K=F6rner
An example of a cybermangled dieresis.
c
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continued use of the left thumb from one note to another (c# and d#)
Does anyone know why the C# is usually next to the D on the right of the
chanter, and the D# next to the E on the left?
I know of one maker who reverses them, so you can play C#-D left pinky right
thumb and D#-E right thumb
I was referring to the middle c# and d# on a 7 keyed chanter and g# 's would
be needed too, to play in g on an f chanter.
Oops, thought you meant the low ones.
I must admit that I've got rather more keys than I need. The maker did warn me
...
chirs
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And of course Blow the wind southerly.
Aaarrggh
-Original Message-
From: Anita Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:49 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: Plumbing the depths, and further
Chris Ormston wrote:
Dear All,
I recently received a card
My dearie sits ower late; what can the matter be?
c
-Original Message-
From: Anita Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:49 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: Plumbing the depths, and further
Chris Ormston wrote:
Dear All,
I recently received a
The reference to the Rolling Stones reminds me of one of my favourite misprints:
Brian Jones was always something of an enigma even to his closet friends
Chirs
-Original Message-
From: Ormston, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:48 AM
To:
Ah sorry - my fault.
Not really because:
The question
mark was intended for anyone interested ..
If it had been intended for Colin Ross it would/should have been inside the
brackets.
chirs
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It might have saved us from that Maxwell-Davis stuff grin
Not to mention Mozart and the Beatles ;-)
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Boyden of course is not the last word in research on the history of
violin playing. I gather from other sources that not all old bows were
shorter, even though such authorities as Jaap Schroeder continue to
state that they were. Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest respect
for
Also being in the Folk genre doesn't mean 'anything goes'.
Hear hear hear hear hear, and so on. This point cannot be emphasised enough.
chirs
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Imagine if Pavarotti had thrown in the odd yodel in Nessun
Dorma, and you'll get the idea! grin
Ah yes, but no one claims that Pavarotti's is the only way to sing - or even to
sing Nessun Dorma.
My personal pet hates are excessive and misplaced vibrato, conjectural
intonation and pomposity. In
tries to get the e hole to sound in
tune...)
You'll be lucky ;-)
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maybe we should have a society red nose for such players :)
Can I put my name down now.
Count me in
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There were many Folk clubs during the 60's - 80's including a
few excellent
traditional clubs (I ran one - and played my pipes there
Which one was that? I was quite active on the folk scene in Liverpool in the
mid-60s but had only ever encountered nsp on record (played by colin ross
We were quite happy to get rid of him
I reckon to this day he thinks he's a great musician and doesn't realise that
he wasn't being used by the other beatles as comic relief (the perfect voice
for a little help from my friends).
Good drummer, though, and made a serious contribution there.
Oops,
Ah, I left in 1968 and have not been back much since.
Coach House and Jim Peden's were main venues. Only played guitar (and just
started fiddle when I left) in those days, so sessions were not much of an
option - I didn't want to be yet another annoying thrasher, even if I could get
my head
Jim and Shirley were usually found at Gregson's Well
Yep, that's the place.
Tuesday (been
there, sung there)
Idem
along with John?
Kaneen.
(his nickname was Yogi)
Yup.
Cross Keys? Yes, went there as well - the formidable Tony
Wilson in charge
(Bothy ) with his captain's hat.
Idem. And
Yes, Sheila's right.
anyone who got tired of the tuning debate on previous occasions is invited to
stop here ;-)
Question: Is your absolute pitch in equal temperament. In other words, does a
piano sound in tune - especially the thirds?
I have nothing approaching absolute pitch but very acute
Used occasionally it's not too
intrusive. I think the hard line taken by Clough, Adrian and
I is really an attempt to reign in some of the worst excesses
of open technique.
Nicely put, though I enjoy a good choyte now and then.
This is probably heresy to some, but I think it's arguable that
I'd go along with all of this. Thanks, Richard, for putting it so eloquently.
c
-Original Message-
From: Richard York [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:57 AM
To: NSP Mailing List
Subject: [NSP] Re: Not Choyting - advice please
Oh dear - that wasn't what I
Of course, the traditional style needs to be mastered first to
acquire the
skill to take it further otherwise it tends to be bad playing.
Indeed.
(am I the only person in the world that likes buttered
peas and hates
holey halfpenny?). :)
For listening or playing? And of course you have
- grace notes (or gracings), i.e. twiddly bits that are
not necessary for articulation but are put in because the
composer or
player thinks they sound good.
Choyting on the NSP would fall into the latter category.
I'll drink to that! There might even be a few listeners
Our
pipes alone, among other bagpipes, have the capability of producing
truly detached notes
In other words, they can do what the others can't. However they can also do
what the others can, so they are potentially richer. Why make them,
complementarily, as restricted as the others?
I think
Has anyone had more luck than me?
No.
c
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it's better to try to teach people how to think
musically than to
answer specific questions about what is correct or incorrect...
Indeed. A friend of mine once told me about a concert during his schooldays
when he was sitting next to a kid who was apparently the nephew or something of
a
pegment sans appui
I'm not familiar with the term. Is this what purists might call a
dégringolement?
c
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As for choyting etc, it's the gold standard to learn to play
without it,
then choose to include it later if you wish to.
So we could have foregone the entire debate then? grin
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Clarinet-like? What sort of reed was he using? Most I've heard sound more
oboe-like, which imho is a Good Thing.
chirs
-Original Message-
From: Francis Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:05 PM
To: Ormston, Chris
Cc: NSP Mailing List
Subject: [NSP] Re:
I use neatsfoot and have had no problems.
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 9:54 AM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Correct grade of oi l?
Hi
Being very new to piping I get a bit confused about the
The top B was still dodgy 70+ years after the original recording!!!
Not to mention the top A, particularly at 2.00 and 2.07.
Great stuff though
c
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I believe Chris Ormston plays on a Peter Gabriel album, but I haven't chased it
up yet.
An NSP player is credited on Mike Oldfield's Ommadawn, but apparently didn't
actually appear on the album because his reed broke and some UP player, er,
played instead (information from Chris O).
c
The start of the rant beat is the opposite of trochhee and
more iambic
with two extra strong beats following the iambic te-tum. i.e.
te-tum,tum,tum.
Err... Matt's illustration (Nuts and raisins) is definitely
two trochees.
Yes, confusing, isn't it?
Long live conventional notation.
c
To get
I can't think of a single word that will
do but no doubt some one will.
Untunable? Unbareable?
c
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Could he be left handed or is the print
backwards, I wonder.
In fact the whole thing is left-handed so either of the above explanations are
possible.
More puzzling is the painting (Dutch 17th C) of a bellowspiper in Carbisdale
Castle / Yoof Hostel, which is normal except that the piper has
Even more
disorientating was playing with a German violinist who had had an
accident that ruined his right hand; he re-taught himself to play
left-handed.
A minor quibble, but do you mean ruined his *left* hand? I can imagine bowing
with an injured right hand as long as the wrist,
I gather the unexplanation of the Goebel's paralysis was carpal tunnel
syndrome.
c
-Original Message-
From: Paul Gretton [mailto:i...@gretton-willems.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:01 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: Prints of pipers
-Original
With regard to the Tom Anderson quote, Never try to learn
a tune you
don't already know, as posted by Christopher Birch,
Just for the record, I was referring to a previous posting by Colin Ross, in
which he wrote:
It has already attracted criticism from one of our pipers who is
'deeply
Viola for sale - recently tuned.
How did they know? g?
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and it looks like Christopher Birch who
is on this list may be closest to you in Luxemburg.
Thanks for the plug, but I'm a dabbler more than a teacher ;-) I could impart
the basics though.
There's also David Singleton - also in Luxembourg - who helped me a great deal
with his fettling
I was very strict with myself about
using the tips
of my fingers for NSP, having read the phrase little pistons to
describe proper NSP technique.
Similarly you often see correct violin technique described as playing on the
tips, and the phrase little hammers is used. Ruggiero Ricci, to
Wonderful!
Which leads me to offer this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28ikQaPFK4
OK, it's fiddle-orientated rather than either sheep or smallpipes, but
don't you think there's scope here for a new category in
piping contests?
Or perhaps simply a nice variant on the advice to practise
I don't think it fair to call any style of playing any
instrument 'incorrect' simply because it does not adhere rigidly to
tradition.
Here we go again!
FWIW:
I a) value the tradition (and the baroque) and b) agree wholeheartedly with the
above statement.
I play various instruments in
Do you think math teachers are unfair for calling answers
wrong?
I'm sorry, but this is frankly silly. Proving things write or rongue is what
maths is about.
Something may be wrong when playing a given style music (like playing jazz as
if it was classical and vice versa) but describing a
I think this very eloquently says it all - about piping, about music in
general, and about life as a whole.
I hope my wife is doing rumbled thumps again for lunch. Gudden appetit.
chirs
-Original Message-
From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009
She mentioned the Kathryn Tickell connection at
our first lesson just before Christmas 2008 and when I quizzed her
further she admited she had had 1 lesson from her.
Good to know that KT is not responsible either. It would not be the first
time in this forum that the lady has been
If a person ignores this
completely from
the outset then the product may not be wrong but it is certainly
misguided. Let pipers take the music in any direction they
wish but to
have any connection with Northumbrian piping as such they must spend
time studying the starting point
Not only Manitas da Plata!!!
c
-Original Message-
From: Helen Capes [mailto:helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:22 PM
To: 'Dartmouth NPS'
Subject: [NSP] Re: Lisa Ridley
I went to that Manitas de Plata concert too!
I think its a great example of a good theory
I think you need to listen to more (good) opera singers, mate!
Maybe. Who would you suggest?
c
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the clip sounded poor and yes, the article itself was
unfortunate but Jessica isn't responsible.
So...
I finally got round to listening to it, and it was far far better than I had
been led to expect. How were today's (and yesteryear's) big names playing when
they were 14? Are there any
Hooray. At last, something I can agree with publicly. I'm trying to
call it detached fingering (or tenuto for the technically minded),
rather than staccato, but that's a minor detail.
Right! And remember staccato does not mean short. It means
separated. Detached/detaché on the violin
Good points, both Stephen and Paul.
Interesting point about Tchaikovski: the stringing of the violin in his day
would have been much closer to what is nowadays regarded as baroque (all gut
except a simply wound g). Modern synthetic (e.g. obligato), steel (e.g. prim)
or even sophisticatedly
Hear hear!
c
-Original Message-
From: pipe...@tiscali.co.uk [mailto:pipe...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:02 PM
To: Dartmouth NPS
Subject: [NSP] Lisa Ridley etc.etc.
Dear All,
As a Tiscali customer I have had no access to the forum for over a
week so imagine my
Hear hear, welcome back and thanks for all the dots!
Chirs (unashamed KT-worshipper - but aye, there's other equally fine ways of
playing).
-Original Message-
From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 12:26 PM
To: Dartmouth NPS
Subject: [NSP]
Ah yes, I remember it well - even in the same city, whack!
C
I was the one who sang interminable unaccompanied ballads. My sister was the
other one.
I also almost got murdered by Barry Halpin for singing with God on our side
at his club.
Ah, madcap youth!
c
-Original Message-
From:
Thank you, Barry.
I approached this message with trepidation fearing it might be a disclosure of
the awful truth about one of people I most admire on this planet.
Instead it was a long-overdue tribute to Kathryn's genius written by a person
qualifed to judge.
At last.
Thank you again.
chirs
The learner should note that the staccato style of playing
should not be
overdone.
Excessive cutting of the notes though at times lending a meretricious
brilliance to a performance,
is not in accordance with good small-pipe style
It is interesting that this was left out of
James Galway playing tin whistle used to be alarming,
though the Chieftains taught him a better, more fluid, style
subsequently.
Only heard him doing so once and this was back in the early Cretaceous or
thereabouts.
Your description of the better style as more fluid suggests that he fell
That passage describing and naming ornaments was clearly
lifted from 'classical' tutors for other instruments.
It does not discuss how these ornaments might be fingered, for example.
Have you - has anyone - had Fenwick - ever heard a turned
shake on the NSP?
The description of staccato is
Praps some would prefer oil of vitriol.
Just kidding.
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:50 AM
To: pipers list
Subject: [NSP] What oil to use?
Can anybody suggest a suitable
Is this as dangerous as it looks?
Tho in the present context it's probably safer than admitting to liking KT ;-)
c
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Shaw
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:42 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
It certainly did this time!
c
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:06 AM
To: phi...@gruar.clara.net
Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: No kind of
I've heard the story - probably apocryphal - that Billy wrote it when
sheltering from the rain in a shed/barn with a leaky roof and that as the rain
got heavier the drips got faster. There again, Billy always tended to get
faster
FWIW
C
-Original Message-
From:
I got quite a surprise last time I recorded myself playing -
it was far
too fast for my liking
Related anecdote:
Once while setting up for a gig, music playing in the background included a
very fast and flashy version of Orange Blossom Special (not on the pipes!).
When I asked who was
Interestingly (to me at least) classical musicians and critics tend to use
preserving the dance character (of, say, Bach's partitas for solo violin) to
mean not playing too slowly. My experience of playing for dancing (morris,
scottish, rocknroll) tells me it should mean not playing too fast.
c
when I've had more practice I'll be able to
read whole bars at a time.
The ability to read (and hear in your mind's ear and feel in your fingers) in
increasingly large chunks just comes with practice - providing you go about it
in the right way to begin with.
The extreme case is that of the
don't let anyone talk you out of getting low C#.
But if you do get one, I would recommend getting it on the opposite side of the
chanter from the B and the D - it's hard to do a run over three consecutive
keys!
I know this is contrary to the normal practice of some highly respected makers
I reckon you'd be better of writing it out by hand. This is what Mozart or Tom
Clough would have done.
c
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of The Red Goblin
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:43 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
or at least what I
thought was the
easy option and eventually came round full circle and did them (and
still do them) in long hand.
Thank you, Michael, for this info. I've always got the impression that all this
Midi, Abc, Sibelius stuff is probably more laborious than long hand.
You've
Yes. Just read it down one note without writing it out.
You'll soon get
used to it and acquire a valuable skill.
Best suggestion yet!
c
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Ah yes, taking the plunge in the first place.
Though, Michael Dillon said he has sucked them and seen.
Maybe it's a personal temperament/aesthetic thing. Like fact that we're playing
pipes and fiddles rather than synthesisers or riding choppers rather than
Goldwings.
Errr.sorry, could you
Indeed!
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Shaw
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:40 PM
To: Dartmouth NPS; Anthony Robb
Subject: [NSP] Re: GUTS?
Among traditional musicians nothing is so noticeable as
the absence of
Variation in
interpretation is what
music is all about so play the tune the way you want to and don't be
brought down by the fundamentalists.
Hear hear!!!
CB
Whilst we're there, I'm certain that any French speakers will advise
against a careless translation of 'pipe-making'.
Same thing. I hadn't been aware of the French expression, but it's in Petit
Robert.
c
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Is that THE Neil Smith?
Wa schon, schéi gréiss aus Lëtzebuerg!
csirz
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Smith
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:14 PM
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Old Guy
Lovely
Modern
(new research) concert instrumentalists, starting as children
now learn
their instrument by ear for the first few years, when they have learnt
the instrument and some of its' possibilities, they are introduced to
the dots and in so doing create a happy medium and a happy player.
Akcherly it's gréiss, as in Gréiss Darling.
c
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Sorry, this should be shay grice and indeed Dave should have used an acute
accent on the e in both words - schéi gréiss.
It's Luxembourgish for - literally - beautiful greetings, corresponding to
the German schöne Grüsse. Yes, the dots and strokes do matter for the correct
pronunciation.
Oops, deed mer leed nach eng kéier, it should have been shay grace not
grice.
Grease is not the word.
c
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:57 PM
To:
Hi Neil!
Just phoned my good Luxembourgish lady to check, and we indeed have it.
I'll send you a scan 2moro
Csírz
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of neil smith
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 3:29 PM
To: Dartmouth
I'd still appreciate it if Chris could send the scan,
though, as I seem
to recall that version had harmonies.
I no longer own the Christophory book (gave it away) but the version my good
lady has located so far was in a school book sans harmonies. But she thinks it
might have harmonies
Speaking of keys, maybe you can retrofit a few more.
Csírz
Maat et gudd mais net ze dacks
--
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Well Ruggiero Ricci says that when he was 15 he played the Ernst concerto for
Heifetz, who was duly impressed but commented but you need to be able to
sight-read it. I suppose one has to practise like hell to get the technique in
the first place and then just keep on playing whatever comes
Hear hear!
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Eskenazi
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Anthony Robb
Cc: cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu;
gibbonssoi...@aol.com
Subject: [NSP] Re:
Stephen:
The lack of 'improvisation' runs inline with the omnipotence of the
composer and bigger orchestras in Romantic period. Hard to improvise
in this context!
True.
But is this really decline, or the 'rot set(ting) in'???
Well it was the loss of a skill. Whether it was the rot
John:
I haven't damned 'classical musicians' at all.
I wasn't accusing you personally of damning classical musicians. Sorry if it
came over that way.
Some people, including some who should no better, do damn classical musicians,
however, and even take a pride in their own inability to read
I actually agree with all this, but I for one have received the reply
no, we're trying to get away from that when I asked a well-know Irish
musician if he could read music.
I have also heard a well-known singer dismissing classical players with
the phrase the buggers couldn't do it
starts at 2.58
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Steve Bliven
Sent: Fri 1/1/2010 7:40 PM
To: Marianne Hall; oatenp...@googlemail.com; List - NSP
Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP item on BBC Radio 4
Nope, still there. Have to wait through some other
If you are playing in a church I'd suggest Northumbrian small
pipes (alternatively 'smallpipes' or 'small-pipes' . . . there
I'd agree with this suggestion (and the spelling smallpipes, coz they're not
just any old pipes that happen to be small).
I also think it's more conventional to write
Reminds me of a limerick a friend of mine composed in response to an expensive
lot of hot air from a rip-off outfit called Time Manager International that I
and my colleagues were obliged to attend many years back.
A time manager from L.A. (or something that rhymes with day anyway)
Was planning
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM
--
References
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM
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I have it on good authority from several Irish persons that the name of
the Irish language in English is Irish.
In Irish it's gaeilge. Gaelic is normally reserved for the language
of Scotland Gaeilge na hAlban (or Gh`aidhlig in Scossgallic)
Csirz
-Original Message-
at least you know your brass from your oboe!
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Anita Evans
Sent: Fri 2/5/2010 7:57 PM
To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site
Subject: [NSP] Re: Gaelic Pronunciation - pedantry warning
Matt Seattle wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I think a similar arrangement has been used
on other instruments in the past.
It is strange that I can't find any reference to such a beast on the
Internet, but I did find this:
[1]http://kaczmarek.org/pages/biopage_folder/bio_1.html
Wiki is
Stringing of baroque violins is another can of worms since tension varied
widely according to local conventions and personal preferences. There is also
the question of equal tension versus progressive tension and whether wound
strings should be used for the G and/or D. It is, or at least used
Would someone care to admit to a close enough acquaintance
with a female baroque
violinist to safely enquire about her knicker elastic?
I'm working on it ;-)
c
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