[NSP] New topic?
I note that our latest copy of the New Internationalist has a cover story tag for "The Rise of the Killer Drones". Is this an aspect of piping we should be discussing? Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] reeds and grit
I'm trying to make myself some elder drone reeds, partly through curiosity to see what they sound like, partly because while post-flu clumsy I sadly destroyed my existing small d one recently. I know it's a skill, I know I'll probably get there eventually: others have done so, and probably a lot faster! What I'm struck with is just how persistent the original makers of such reeds must have been - they hadn't got good and helpful people to turn to who'd already done it, so they weren't even sure it would work, yet they kept on. OK, so you try it a few times, it doesn't work, the average human being concludes it ain't going to, and moves onto the next thing, but they went on in either sheer bloody-mindedness or conviction of something. In fact there's a lot about instrument making in general, and pipes making in particular, which only works once several variables are all working right at the same time, so feeling post-flu philosophical, I keep on being reminded just how important making music, and making The Right Sound is, that people who invented all this stuff did simply persevere until the thing worked! Richard, still in slightly surreal mode. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Farewell to Whisky - Niel Gow
As an aside, my wife found long ago that they go well together as a sequenced pair with a story to tell, on small harp! Richard. On 13/09/2011 17:54, Francis Wood wrote: The note accompanying the fine tune 'Farewell to Whisky' appearing in the Gow 5th collection states: "This tune alludes to prohibiting the making of Whisky in 1799. It is expressive of a Highlander's sorrow on being deprived of his favourite beverage". Also in the 5th collection is the remedy to this distressing situation: 'Whisky Welcome back again', with the note: "Alluding to permitting Whisky to be distilled in the year 1801. It is a merry dancing Tune." I seem to remember reading that the prohibition was caused by a shortage of grain. Can anyone provide anything more specific about the relevant circumstances in 1799 - 1801? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_19666&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: (no subject)
Would we get round to organising them, though, Julia? Happy diverting-from-whatever-you're-supposed-to-be-doing :) Richard. On 08/09/2011 11:17, Julia Say wrote: On 8 Sep 2011, Richard York wrote: Sorry, how can you tell I have far too much to do today and am seeking diversionary tactics? Its called constructive procrastination, Richard. I'm getting to be an expert on it, too. Shall we run courses on it in our spare time? ;-) Julia --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: [1]http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID =pav_19169&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings \Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- -- References 1. http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_19169&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: (no subject)
On 08/09/2011 10:07, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: I used to suffer from dustmites all year round until a suitable treatment was found. I wonder when someone will develop the double action bellows - one to inflate the pipes, another to fit a vacuum cleaner attachment, which if you think about it could look remarkably like a large bagpipe set with an extra long open ended chanter... Sorry, how can you tell I have far too much to do today and am seeking diversionary tactics? Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Harvest tunes
You mean we could get away with Pachelbel's, "Harvest Ground Canon", from his famous suite, "A Bass for All Seasons"? :) Richard. On 03/09/2011 21:19, Barry Say wrote: It has been reported that when Jack Armstrong appeared on the radio, the producers encouraged (required?) him to provide Northumbrian titles for the tunes he used. Whether or not this is true, why not take existing tunes which you like to play and give them 'Harvest' titles. I heard an interview with a young American singer/songwriter who accompanied herself on guitar. She was offered a well-paid gig to play 'cowboy' songs. A friend advised her to take the gig, play her own material, and call them cowboy songs. Of the audience he said "Hell, they ain't no ethnomusicologists. Just a thought. Barry Richard York wrote: Please may I thank all those of you who, both on and off-list, have sent such a wealth of ideas. I knew this group was a helpful bunch of people, but have been really delighted by the quantity of great ideas, and the time you've taken to put them together. The service our friend is conducting could now be hours long, and that's just the music, never mind the other bits! There's a meeting this Tuesday of the people taking part, and I'll bring all the suggestions to it. Thanks again, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_18625&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Harvest tunes
Please may I thank all those of you who, both on and off-list, have sent such a wealth of ideas. I knew this group was a helpful bunch of people, but have been really delighted by the quantity of great ideas, and the time you've taken to put them together. The service our friend is conducting could now be hours long, and that's just the music, never mind the other bits! There's a meeting this Tuesday of the people taking part, and I'll bring all the suggestions to it. Thanks again, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Harvest tunes
Our band is playing for a Harvest Festival in a church in MK later this month, partly to accompany their hymns, and partly to play a few seasonally relevant tunes at some point. Other than the obvious Harvest Home h'pipe and one or two others, I'm not finding many good tune titles yet, and would welcome suggestions. Useful ones would be good, though I suspect the usual suspects will think of others too... Not necessarily nsp repertoire, just anything you know of, please. (Playford and John Offord both seem to have very little to offer, surprisingly, I was expecting loads of trad titles to leap out at me, as they do for some other times of the year.) With thanks, Richard, -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, "Roxborough Castle"
True 'nuff! :) On 30/06/2011 10:20, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: <... > Could have done another take? C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11671&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune of the Month, July, "Roxborough Castle"
Yes to both, and the acoustic doesn't help at all. And a curious choice of drone, which on my headset seemed to be the subdominant. I admire anyone, though, who can honestly say they've never played too fast when confronted with a recording device, and mangled good intentions, when nervous adrenalin cripples technique though. Or am I being too kind to him - is he just a man of tin ears indeed? Richard. On 30/06/2011 09:22, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Might be quite good if he played it at half the speed. And got his chanter remotely in tune. Otherwise agree with Francis. Me too. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_11660&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Meanwhile I'm working on my next piece for the competitions later in the year. I've got as far as Dum poppapoppapoppadum poppa, but can't decide if it should be dum or pop next. Thoughtful and considered artistic advice of a sensitive nature would be most welcome, please. Richard. On 21/06/2011 17:00, [1]si...@leveau8.fsnet.co.uk wrote: I assume all this food based music will be played on a crumpet or a cornetto --Original Message-- From: Gibbons, John Sender: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu To: 'Francis Wood' To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Sent: Jun 21, 2011 4:36 PM Or poppaDOMpompompom POPpadom? -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha lf Of Francis Wood Sent: 21 June 2011 16:29 To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead P On 21 Jun 2011, at 15:51, Richard York wrote: Then there's the Beethoven version- poppopaDOM Or this, anyone? Poppadom, Poppadom, Poppadom-pom ? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:si...@leveau8.fsnet.co.uk 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Then there's the Beethoven version- poppopaDOM Richard. On 21/06/2011 15:44, Ian Lawther wrote: Thank you Frances.you had me whistling the Radetzky March while cooking breakfast.I'm probably stuck with it for the day! Ian Francis Wood wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 14:54, Tim Rolls wrote: Popapoms would be the Australian version then? Well, which country is this? : Poppadom, Poppadom Pom Pom Pom . . . Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_10448&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
All of which goes to show that it's really, really difficult writing down on paper the precise quality of something which we hear and/or play in such a way that other people can do it. Perhaps Aural Transmission really is the best method. (waits for someone to produce a dubious double entendre) Best wishes, Richard. PS We could maybe discuss how to notate traditional dance too, while we're at it :) On 21/06/2011 10:05, Julia Say wrote: On 20 Jun 2011, Gibbons, John wrote: "stacc.abbreviated form of staccato (Italian: detached, separated) staccare(Italian) to detach, to separate each note" The word has its natural meaning, in other words. Stacatissimo is what some people think it means, but it doesn't! I believe I read (probably in the online dolmetsch.com music theory site since that's what I tend to use) that in classical / art music terms these days, a note with a staccato dot should be played half length of what is printed, (so a crotchet becomes a quaver, for instance), whilst staccatissimo means the note should be played one quarter of the written value. I have more than a suspicion that the precise meaning of these terms varies from instrument to instrument (different characteristics and all that) as well as through historical and musical time. Maybe an exploration of the relevance and meaning of such terms for the nsp is worthwhile. Tenuto also appears to mean separated, but only by a hair's breadth, which I think we should appropriate, as it describes exactly what we sometimes want. Reading (this time on Wikipedia) legato can be either separated or joined (slurred legato?) depending on instrument and context. What / which do we (nsp-ers) mean by it? And under what circumstances? I once played classical flute - where staccato dots often (but not always) meant tongueing, slurs meant no tongueing. And so on and so forth. Each of us is coming to the nsp with a slightly different perspective and experience and we have to bear this in mind in discussions We have staccatissimo marks in Peacock on Meggy's Foot - and all seem agreed that this is a highly exaggerated staccato tune. So, in our case, staccatissimo could be said to be "as short as you can possibly make it", whilst "staccato" is with the bounce that most players seem to apply to (for example) the first of a pair of repeated notes. Not something that's ever been pointed out to me formally but "most" players do it, almost by instinct. Which makes it traditional in my book. If we can find a consensus on how these terms are / should be used in nspiping, discussions might be a little less confrontational. Julia (who has been told off by both Chris O and I- Adrian for playing "too staccato" - yees!) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_10394&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Oh the perils of using a short-hand term carelessly! OK, I shouldn't have called it staccato, I was merely characterising the general sound difference between piano and plucked keyboard instruments to make my point, a dangerous and un-scholarly thing to do :) And all you say is of course quite true. And I've just learned a new word - didn't know "martele" until now. Thanks. Best wishes, Richard. On 20/06/2011 09:34, [1]christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. I was having this discussion with my wife the other day (she plays keyboards rat her better than I can), so I went to the harpsichord and tried it to check. Just like on a piano, if you hold a key down, the damper remains out of contact with the string, which sustains longer than it would if you released the key immedia tely. Not as long as on the piano of course, but there's a difference between st accatissimo and simple separation. Maybe the term should be "short-sustained". As regards "detached" fingering, it's interesting that the term "detache" when a pplied to bowing of a string instrument does not imply a silence between the not es. It merely means that you change bow direction for each note, making a fresh start, rather than slurring two or more together. The on-the-string bowing with a silence between notes is called "martele". "Staccato" means separating notes w ith a silence while staying on the string but not changing the direction of the bow. Then of course there's all the off-the-string stuff. "Staccato" in Italian means "separated". It does not mean "short". Playing NSP with a fresh start to each note but not necessarily a clearly audibl e silence can sound very pleasant, at least to my ears, and of course you need t o be able to do the staccatissimo in the first place to do it reliably because t he timing has to be phenomenally precise. The "look mummy, no legato" (or drippi ng tap) way of playing just sounds like a technical exercise. To do a good detac he it helps to have a good martele to begin with. I would argue that the martele was the "basic stroke" just like the staccato is the basic way of playing NSP. C --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: [2]http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID =pav_10246&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings \Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- -- References 1. mailto:christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu 2. http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_10246&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Ending tunes traditionally
Thanks both - I find that quite reassuring, and agree about the tendency to the differences betwixt fast and slow ones. Also that tunes some do want it, some don't, but that there's no hard and fast rule emerging is pleasing. Best wishes, Richard. On 18/06/2011 11:42, Matt Seattle wrote: And, bowing to Anthony's greater experience of kirn suppers, this lesser mortal's thoughts are pretty much the same as his about ending such tunes - dancers expect an ending, listeners can happily sit in the air. Felton Lonnen for ex. would IMO be awful with a 'resolution' on the tonic. On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Anthony Robb <[1]anth...@robbpipes.com> wrote: Hello Richard I have to bow to Matt's much greater academic knowledge on this one but I still offer a lesser mortal's thoughts: The old guys I played with were dance driven and would invariably resolve tunes in the manner you describe. As far as my own preference is concerned I find certain tunes cry out for resolution (Lads of Alnwick for example) whilst I like others 'left in the air' (such as The Keelman Ower Land, Sir John Fenwick's the Flower Amang Them All). On singing tunes through in my head to check this I think there might be a pattern emerging. Perhaps tunes ending in fast passages need resolution but slower ones sound quite grittily scrumptious with a long E, for example, against G&D drones. Again this is a personal feeling. After all that has been said about a living/evolving tradition I would not be comfortable giving a definitive answer but hope this helps a bit. As my nana would often say, "just please your Bessie"! Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: [3]It is spam! --- -- References 1. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_10077&SPAM=true&path=C:%5CDocuments%20and%20Settings%5CRichard%5CLocal%20Settings%5CApplication%20Data%5CPanda%20Security%5CPanda%20Internet%20Security%202011%5CAntiSpam
[NSP] Ending tunes traditionally
There are many tunes, especially slip jigs, and quite a few Peacocks, which as written, end on a note that implies we're about to go back to the beginning and start again, but isn't really in itself an endi- ... Many players stop there on the last time through, and don't play the note which seems to want to come and end it, pointing out that it ain't in the script so you don't play it. It's a matter of taste whether you like a hanging in the air, imperfect/interrupted/whatever cadence, type of ending, or whether you like to add the extra back-home note on the last time. Since I've only got dots and some recordings, mostly of modern players, to go on, I have no hard evidence as to how it was really done back in the day. Some tunes I like that way, with others my instinct is to add the implied final note, especially if playing for dancers. (It doesn't have to be a Jimmy Shand type "Taraaa", of course!) So I wonder if it's done that way because it really was traditional, or because people who, like me, only have what was written down, are slavishly not playing un-written dots, despite the fact that we happily accept that dots are necessarily an imperfect shorthand, (Cf hornpipe rhythms, non-notated grace notes in many traditions, and so forth); so we stop because the person notating it didn't bother making an extra "last time bar". Or did the traditional musicians who'd learned it from their great-uncle who had it from - and so on, actually play it that way? Please could those of you, like Anthony and others, who have played with the survival of the "living tradition" (whichever one!) offer any help? Thanks and best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Point taken, Francis. And Barry. Thanks for both. I was just using the harpsichord, (with or without over-excited skeletons), vs piano, as an illustration to make my point about using all the vocabulary an instrument can offer rather than cutting a bit out because it's heretical. And I agree detached doesn't have to mean staccato - comes of trying not to make my already meandering email even longer, with sub-paragraphs and conditions of interpretation :) And yes, Uillean pipes have not only two but three fingerings for most notes, IIRC: open, closed, and vibrato. (Oh dear, Vibrato. I can hear the approach of Rev Paisley-style tones thundering out about the antichrist of pure music coming on here) I think I'll just go and quietly play a wire strung harp for a bit, it might be safer. Though I must be sure not to get too bogged down by whether to damp or not, and whether we should be using brass, silver, or gold strings, and which sort of brass anyway. At least it's not classical harp, where they fight about Salzedo or Grandjany technique. Or traditional Irish accordian where they used to get upset about whether you used single reed or multiple reed bank sound. Or... anyway, I'll just go and play something. Peace and oil. Richard. On 17/06/2011 20:51, Francis Wood wrote: Hello Richard, I think we pretty much agree. Who, for example, would want to play Rothbury Hills in a staccato manner? (Who, indeed would want to play RH in any manner whatsoever, some might interjec t.) However it was composed by a significant piper who happened to be the official p iper to the Duke of somewhere or other. So like it or not, it's part of the trad ition. Often improved, if you get the chance to hear it, by Inky-Adrian's farmyard impr essions. That harpsichord comparison is mightily good, since that and the NSP have some p rinciples remarkably in common. However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustaine d'. That has as much to do with what the contemporary listener actually heard, knowing the style and nature of the music, rather than the acoustic output of t he instrument. While we're usefully on this topic, here's an opportunity to quote one of the gr eatest of harpsichordists in one of the bitchiest-ever remarks about taste: "Well, you play Bach your way and I'll play him his way". That was Wanda Landowska. Much quoted in that remark, though it turns out that i t was playfully said to a dear colleague and longtime friend, the cellist Pablo Casals. B! . . . Mooo! . . .. Oink-oink!!! Francis On 17 Jun 2011, at 13:50, Richard York wrote: Hello Francis, Quite so, but, playing devil's advocate for a minute, (and loving tradition exce pt where it becomes tribal), does the fact that we can play staccato and 99% of other pipes can't, mean it's all we should do? The harpsichord, after all, could only really play staccato or slightly sustaine d, and then the piano came in and could play long sustained, but it doesn't mean we don't still use staccato as part of the vocabulary on the piano. I'm not doubting the value of detached playing at all, it really is the best thi ng most of the time, but just wanting the occasional extra bit of vocabulary. An d as a matter of taste more than a tiny bit of smooth really doesn't suit the ns p's to my mind, but like some spices, the occasional addition can go a long way. I speak more as a listener than claiming great expertise in playing here. Best wishes, Richard. PS should the "proper" piping movement consider calling itself the "Real" piping movement? Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrume nt rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usu ally) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other ba gpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify th e ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken& egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical in strument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly id entifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Opera
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Hello Francis, Quite so, but, playing devil's advocate for a minute, (and loving tradition except where it becomes tribal), does the fact that we can play staccato and 99% of other pipes can't, mean it's all we should do? The harpsichord, after all, could only really play staccato or slightly sustained, and then the piano came in and could play long sustained, but it doesn't mean we don't still use staccato as part of the vocabulary on the piano. I'm not doubting the value of detached playing at all, it really is the best thing most of the time, but just wanting the occasional extra bit of vocabulary. And as a matter of taste more than a tiny bit of smooth really doesn't suit the nsp's to my mind, but like some spices, the occasional addition can go a long way. I speak more as a listener than claiming great expertise in playing here. Best wishes, Richard. PS should the "proper" piping movement consider calling itself the "Real" piping movement? Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrument rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken& egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical instrument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly identifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Operated by open minds. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9926&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Oops
Sorry, Julia, Sorry - I got in late yesterday, read a few, but hadn't seen that you'd already done this one! Richard. "The oil of the little known Ont Rhubbledwarterz tree may be suggested. Richard By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis " -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Yes! Richard On 17/06/2011 10:49, Matt Seattle wrote: Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Yes! Richard. On 17/06/2011 10:49, Matt Seattle wrote: Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: divorce
The oil of the little known Ont Rhubbledwarterz tree may be suggested. Richard By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9724&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\NetworkService\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam --- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipers' discussion forum
Thanks! Richard On 29/05/2011 10:20, Tim Rolls wrote: The members' area password should appear in the next newsletter. The members area doesn't yet contain a lot of items. but we hope it will grow. If anyone has any ideas for items for the site, in or out of the restricted members area, please let us know via [1]webs...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk. cheers Tim -- References 1. mailto:webs...@northumbrianpipers.org.uk. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipers' discussion forum
I haven't seen the www site for a while, so was impressed to note it's looking a lot better: congratulations - it's a lot of hard work! Please could the NPS newsletters, which are in the main presumably seen by members, perhaps have the password printed somewhere in the contacts list, so that forgetful members like me can be reminded of what it is, and access the members' area? If the occasional non-member sees it, it's presumably not a life-and-death security issue? Best wishes, Richard. On 29/05/2011 08:50, Tim Rolls wrote: As Julia mentioned there is a discussion forum on the NPS website at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/ Although it's to be found currently on the members' area page, it is open to non members. All we ask is that you sign in using a recognisable version of your name as your user name so we all know who we're talking to. If you want to have a look at the rest of the website it's at http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/ Any problems, please contact me off list. Tim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concerts in France
I love the helpful way that this site has a union flag pointing to its English translation version. The descriptive text is still in French, as far as I can see, but helpful bits like "You are reading the website of..." and the name of the auction house are given in English. As are the links to stuff we wouldn't cope with in French unless we were very advanced, like "Top" (as in, of page.) Unless my computer has a translation-blocker, of course. Richard. Incidentally, if anyone is short of a musette, three are being sold at a forthcoming auction in France. These are the real things; original 18C ivory items. You will need rather a lot of money!: http://vichy-encheres.com/2011/03/23/musette-de-cour/ Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] re-Tune of the Month
The only competitive element in some melodeon circles is to be the one who can play louder, which thankfully is not normally an issue in nsp's! Hence the expression "Wall to wall melodeons". But there are more and more superb box players out there, including some quiet ones. Love and piece indeed... did you have any particular piece in mind this month, Francis? Richard. On 24/05/2011 10:23, Francis Wood wrote: Since I've never felt the urge to compete, perhaps I shouldn't really comment. But from what I've observed, the competition element in the NSP world is nothing like that in GHB piping. It seems to me that NSP competition is far more about participation in traditional events and receiving some personal endorsement of achievement, rather than defeating the opposition. I've no idea what melodeon culture and tradition is like, but evidently it cannot be ancient, as piping traditions are. If there are strong feelings about how things should be done (preferably expressed in a friendly way, but I won't lose sleep if they are not), I'm interested and glad to read them in this forum. This is essentially a pretty friendly place, though with the occasional angry outburst. Rather like any average marriage, I guess. Love n' Peace to all, Francis On 24 May 2011, at 09:33, wrote: Perhaps one of the reasons the melodeon group is so friendly is that they don't have competition built into their culture the way pipers do. (For a diatribe on the subject see my editorial at [2]www.theotherpipers.org). Excellent article! Csírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Alice Burn, and whatever
Hi, I've just got back from a week away to find this lot, and would really like to listen to Alice & Emily's sound. Sadly when I click on the link the RealPlayer box duly pops up, takes ages to load, then sits there refusing to do anything. It's probably something very computer illiterate I'm doing - any helpful comments would be welcome, please. As a fool stepping in where angels, etc. Bach's music can work fantastically on totally authentic period instruments, if the musicians are good enough. His music can also work well with modern electrics, if the musicians are good enough. I believe JSB himself reckoned the piano would never catch on, as it was when he first heard it. Then it developed. Some musical experiments are regrettable, but if they don't speak to enough people they die out; if they do they live, and tastes change and develop. In the 70's I really liked folk rock, and Steel-eye Span; these days I prefer the more traditional bare-bones stuff I would have got bored with then. As a parallel, I happen to like small harps, and really don't like much of the sound of the (to my mind) over-developed full orchestral harp, but it seems to please a lot of intelligent people. Is it so terrible to push the boundaries? Who does the music belong to? Who needs protecting from what? Should we start a music and philosophy group :) And I still can't get the clips to work. Richard. On 19/05/2011 22:28, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello folks There may be one or two apart from Adrian interested in the Alice person. Here she is playing with Emily Hoile at the Chantry Museum last night for the Windy Gyle Band Force 6 launch. This won't be to everyone's liking but gives a flavour of what she & Emily get up to when left to their own devices. Aplogies for overloads, I started my Edirol running and then totally neglected the levels - Emily's harp shook the living daylights out of it! [1][1]http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily Cheers Anthony P.S. it was a grand night - thank you Anne M. -- References 1. [2]http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily 2. http://www.robbpipes.com/AliceEmily 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Wishful thinking or feasible science?
Hello all. I've just enjoyed re-reading Francis Woods' excellent article, "In Praise of Old Pipes", in the 2010 Vol 31 NPS Journal. There he refers to the "myth [which] holds that instruments inevitably deteriorate if they are not used. [...] what really wears them out is using them ". I quite see that the mechanical use of moving keys, sliding tunable parts, etc. causes wear, but would welcome comments on a probably very unscientific thought on the actual wood in instruments. (By the by, I realise mouth-blown woodwind deteriorates through the warming, wetting and drying and cooling effect, but feel that's not so relevant here.) I watched a demonstration recently of how the form of vibrations through an instrument can clearly be seen, by using sand on the soundboard of a rebec held horizontally, which neatly slid into patterns. Since all matter is made of particles, is it possible that the regular patterns of vibration may somehow arrange these particles in a way relating to these regular movements? Which in turn would affect its acoustic character, I assume. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Still looking for an F set!
Forgive me, but methinks that's a rather unhelpful response to a reasonable if admittedly diplomatically difficult request, John. Perhaps people who like their own pipes might answer Gordon off-list? Richard. On 23/03/2011 14:35, John Dally wrote: You want us to recommend a maker? ha, ha, ha. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Gordon Brown wrote: My wife Alison has a Burleigh D set is still looking for an F set so that she can play along with other pipers - not that there are many in East Anglia! If anyone has a set for sale or knows of one that may be available, please let me know. The alternative is that we look for a new set, although I'm bracing myself for the long wait. On that basis, does anyone have any recommendations for a nice traditional/conventional F set? As I've had a good year price is not the main consideration, quality and reliability are. Cheers Gordon -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2471&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)?
And given that an instrument's design is (literally) instrumental in shaping its own repertoire, would it even be at all appropriate to do so? Best wishes, Richard. On 23/03/2011 11:15, Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote: I've a recollection that adding all the keys to woodwind instruments wasn't just about being able to add extra notes, but because some notes can fit better with a fully chromatic scale if the holes are all different sizes, including some that are too big for fingers to cover. There's an article about it here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boehm_System Would this give us any benefits? Even if it would, it sounds as though it would require a complete redesign of the chanter as well. Dru To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2436&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)?
Interesting... would it actually be easier, with all keys and therefore "all fingers [] available to hit keys "? As it is I'm still teaching my fingers when to move to make all the notes faster, and still letting my thumb & little finger learn which position is which, but most of the fingers are limited to their unique notes. If several fingers were available to hit the same key, I feel instinctively that it would be more confusing, even though I happily do exactly that on concertinas and other keyboard instruments. Somehow the woodwind holding position says different things to my hands, and I expect a particular finger always to produce a particular note. What would you hold it by, given that touching any key would produce a note? - you'd need some blank bits to keep your fingers on, and then have to lift them up and move them to the notes. More confusion. I think I'll stick to having holes! Richard. On 22/03/2011 21:28, Colin wrote: Interesting thought but which woodwind instruments don't have at least 6 or 7 open (unkeyed) holes? All mine have the standard unkeyed holes along with the other keyed ones. Maybe the large amount of metalwork hides the fact the holes are there but certainly flutes, clarinets, saxophones, bassoons and oboes have open holes. Flutes, of course, go a step further in having keys with holes in them . As far as I know, there is no member of the woodwind class made without open holes (discounting some bass instruments which would be impossible for the fingers to reach maybe). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Matthew Boris" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:06 PM Subject: [NSP] Has there ever been an NSP with _all_ keys (no open holes)? I was pondering recently, both on the stacatto effect of the keys, the difficulties in only having two fingers free to hit keys, and also thinking about whether a person missing a hand could play bagpipes in general. A thought occurred to me: have any NSP been made which had every hole covered by a key? With such a settup, all fingers would be available to hit keys. I think that's how a lot of modern woodwinds are made; is there any reason besides tradition that this is not regularly done on NSP? -Matthew Arlington, Virginia, USA -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_2380&SPAM=true&path=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Halsway
Thank you must hugely to you who were part of the Halsway event this weekend past - To Alan for organising, to Andy, Chris, Chris and Francis (aphabetically speaking) for tutoring; and just as much so to all who went, and made it such a fantastically nourishing weekend. Yes, the food was pretty good, but this was nourishment for the spirit and the well-being, because everyone conspired to make a truly creatively friendly houseful of people. Oh yes, and there was some nice music too :) We came away feeling ten times better than when we went! Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Halsway
Hello again. Just before I book a train ticket, please is anyone passing Northampton on their way to the Halsway pipers' weekend in March, with room for one more in the car? My wife's joining the w/e later, having played a harpy gig in Reading, with our car, so coming back is sorted. Ages ago I put a request for this, but with Liz's small folk harp to fit in too; that's now going with Liz, so it's just me, plus pipes & bag, please, if anyone can. Yours with hopeful thumb extended, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships
Thanks all for these responses. I'm trying in vain to remember the name in a BBC Radio3 programme some while ago about the Italian composer, just before Gesualdo, who devised the most amazing system to mean that all intervals were perfectly in tune, but the instruments, and singers, had to be tuned with several microtonally different versions of each nominal note to achieve it. I've thought before that it almost argues the existence of a god with a sense of humour, to set the maths so that the octave does want to divide, via the 5ths, into 12 semitones which then don't produce an octave. Back to playing the pipes. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Esoteric tuning relationships
I am sure I'm not the only person here who gets different feelings about different keys. G always feels fairly stable, A is a bit more exciting, Em is darker than Am , and so on. When playing an A minor tune I wrote for nsp's on the piano to see what harmonies it wanted, I was playing in Am, the written pitch, to get the right feel. It comes out on the pipes in more-or-less G minor of course, but still has that feeling of lift of being on A rather than G. While I lack the finger facility to play it in Gm on the pipes I suspect it would feel different there, just as it does on "real" Gm on the piano. I put this down to my pipes being tuned with G as their home key, as it were, so the maths is probably the same in relation to G on the piano if you can work out what I mean by this imprecise expression. I realise this could get far far more complicated than my maths will begin to understand, so will content myself with wondering if anyone else gets this feeling, and if it "transposes" itself the same way for you between nsp's and concert pitch instruments. Or am I just approaching ever nearer to being certifiably in need of locking away? Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
Having listened - a spectacular discovery, John! It must have taken quite a while to, er, find it. Best wishes, Richard. On 17/01/2011 13:05, Gibbons, John wrote: Corrected the upbeats: X:2 T: The Rotting of the Cotton Threads C:Trad? M:4/4 Q:1/4=60 L:1/8 K:A dor g>||:f| ec bB| e>f g>e B>e B/Ge/|ec bB| c>d e/d/c/d/ e :| c|e>f e>a ae| f>g a>f dd| e>f e>a af| e>f g/f/e/d/ e|| c|e>f e>a ae| f>g a>f bd|(3 efg (3 agf (3 gfe (3fed| e>f g/f/e/d/ e|| ||:f|eA GB|e>B g>B e/d/c/B/ c>f|eA GB|e>B g/f/e/d/ e:|| G|E>F E>A CC|E>G A>c dd| E>F E>A Cc|e>f g/f/e/d/ e|| G|E>F E>A CC|E>G A>c df g/f/e/d/ ec bB| e>f g>e B>e B/Ge/|ec bB| c>d e/d/c/d/ ef e>a ae| f>g a>f dd| e>f e>a af| e>f g/f/e/d/ ef e>a ae| f>g a>f bd|(3 efg (3 agf (3 gfe (3fed| e>f g/f/e/d/ eA GB|e>B g>B e/d/c/B/ c>f|eA GB|e>B g/f/e/d/ eF E>A CC|E>G A>c dd| E>F E>A Cc|e>f g/f/e/d/ eF E>A CC|E>G A>c df g/f/e/d/ emailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: 16 January 2011 22:54 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads In fact I'm sure it would have made more sense with the sections in reverse order. But there you are, that's how I found it. R. On 16/01/2011 22:45, Richard York wrote: Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called "The Rotting of the Cotton Threads" as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called "The Rotting of the Threads", which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
In fact I'm sure it would have made more sense with the sections in reverse order. But there you are, that's how I found it. R. On 16/01/2011 22:45, Richard York wrote: Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called "The Rotting of the Cotton Threads" as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called "The Rotting of the Threads", which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rotting of The Cotton Threads
Arduous research in dusty attics and archives has revealed, Francis, that I regret it's not a strathspey, more a sort of rhythmic unravelling. I couldn't find anything called "The Rotting of the Cotton Threads" as such, but this obviously fairly corrupt version called "The Rotting of the Threads", which is pretty close, I'm sure you'll agree, turned up among the yellowing manuscripts. It will be seen that the rhythms perhaps reflect the progressive degeneration of the instrument... though I feel that the copyist has perhaps put them in reverse order, so that rather than losing a beat each time, the idee fixe actually gains one. Strange, and rather sad, really. It was hard to read the writing, but I think I transcribed it correctly. If anyone has a better written out version I'll be delighted to see it. I copy it below in abc's X:1 T: The Rotting of the Threads C:Trad? M:3/4 Q:120 L:1/8 K:G |:.gA.g.c e/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gB d/2B/2A/2G/2|.EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2|.DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:| M:7/8 |: .gA.gB.c e/2d/2c/2B/2|.gA.gA.B d/2B/2A/2G/2|\ M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 | .DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:4/4 .gA.gA B.ce/2d/2c/2A/2|.gA.gA B.cd/2B/2A/G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2 |. DAB.c d/2B/2A/2G/2:||:/ M:9/8 .gAg .ABc .ee/2c/2B/2A/2|.gAg .ABc .dd/2B/2A/2G/2| M:3/4 .EAB.c e/2c/2B/2A/2| .DABc .d/2B/2A/2G/2:| Best wishes, Richard. On 15/01/2011 00:07, Francis Wood wrote: A Strathspey, surely? Francis On 14 Jan 2011, at 23:57, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is 'The rotting of the cotton threads' the title of a tune I haven't learned yet? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: oil - and for other instruments?l
While we're here, what oil would you recommend for mouth-blown woodwind instruments, either pipes or recorders, which have no moving parts but need the wood feeding? I'm never sure what to use. Almond seems nice on recorders, and hasn't yet appeared to go rancid, but I'd welcome more advice, please. Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] CD's & books at Halsway
Will whoever's taking any NPS etc shop items to the March Halsway pipers' weekend be including the new Matt Seattle Bewick book, and the excellently well reviewed Rob Say CD, please? Looking forward already to a good weekend. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Off-topic request for Hymnbook
I also found it really confusing when trying to teach traditional music in this system to French speaking groups. Given that tonic solfa allows a movable "doh" (Or should that be "Doh!"? ) it's a very helpful system for singing with, as long as you indeed don't forget which of the arbitrary names means which relative pitch. But when you're familiar with that system, trying to then translate a tune in G from the alphabetical name system into continental style solfa, where the instinctive tonic "Doh" of G is now called "Sol", etc., so that players can sing it knowing which note they're going to use on the instrument, left my brain even more confused than you probably are after trying to read this. (Meanwhile trying mentally to summon my inadequate French in order to explain the next bit of teaching material without saying anything unintentionally rude or nonsensical at the same time.) :) Richard. On 12/01/2011 09:14, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: I think in France they have a "fixed do" system, where mib =Meeflat = Eb This is correct. At the Conservatoires they teach people to sing the note names, which I personally find a pointless exercise for various reasons, including the fact that they miss out the words "bémol, dièse and bécart" (flat, sharp, nat) because there is no time to fit them in. There is also the fact that the note-names are arbitrary (they are the initial syllables of the lines of an ancient Latin hymn - Ut quaent laxis) and hence don't follow any pre-existing sequence (unlike A, B, C etc.). This is also why C is often referred to in French as "Ut", which is strictly speaking bottom C in an octave, the top C (or do) being, historically "haut" i.e. high. It's very impressive to hear French-trained musicians do this at high speed tho. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Please can John's advice be etched on metal plates, and nailed to all bodhrans ? ;-) [Cajons too] Richard, (among whose dearest friends was once a superb bodhran player. Just a few are out there.) On 07/01/2011 09:41, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Nice one John! c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Gibbons, John Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:50 PM To: Anthony Robb; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning "Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music." Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding drones or regulators. He also extols the beauty and effectiveness of playing parts of a piece on solo chanter only and then adding accompaniment be it drones or other instruments to lift the sound. On a slightly related topic, people have commented on how well in tune the 3 beginner pipers in Windy Gyle Band play on the CD and have suggested that some digital trickery might be involved. This is absolutely not the case. All three have learnt to play on chanter only and two of them are now (after 3 years) beginning to add drones occasionally. The drones can add excitement like nothing else to the pipes sound but they can also mask some of the music at times. So my message would be follow your ears, try all the options and go with what works for you. Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Hi Mike, You have the right man in Colin Dipper! A very Rolls Royce of concertina tuners, who 25 years ago rescued my lovely anglo from a botch job someone else had done, and has looked after it from time to time ever since. And on the other hand, you probably already know that unless there's a good reason for haste, it may be quite a wait before you see it again! (I've been lucky so far.) If you're considering getting rid of the bass notes, are these the buttons you're going to be hanging extra accidentals for the right hand on? It sounds as if you're playing both English & Anglo systems already, but to my mind having right hand notes under the left fingers of an anglo would really be confusing... I find the anglo a very tactile thing, compared to the more technical logical approach of the English system, and for me it would upset the lines of treble and bass thinking which the fingers do almost by themselves. I'd want to be sure I was gaining more than I was losing. Before I got my anglo in the first place, someone had tried re-arranging the system, and given up half-way. Colin has too much experience for that, but I'd still want to be sure that the gain outweighed the loss. Best of luck, Richard On 06/01/2011 12:36, Mike Dixon wrote: Rob Thanks - Colin Dipper will be doing the work for me ( he has just tweaked and sold my English concertina for me which is funding this work!) so I will talk it through with him - I gather he has done similar work for other pipers I will also have a look at a second hand one as an option - I will have to do the sums! Could you expand on the 'care and sympathy' with the drones? Cheers Mike -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of rob@milecastle27.co.uk Sent: 06 January 2011 12:00 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Morning Mike - yes this correct. For a C/G anglo where you are typically playing tunes in G and D (and associated minors) you would want a Bb/F tuning to play with NSP. Unless you know the person you want to play with is in concert F then +20 would also be a very good idea. I have a Bb English concertina but it doesn't get out much because it's in concert pitch and too far from most sets of pipes. Personally I wouldn't get rid of the bass notes there's a lot of musical room to play in down there. It requires care and sympathy with the drones going ... Another consideration is that retuning a complete tone is quite invasive - it is possible to get a Bb/F instrument without modification. They are rarer but also cheap because no one else plays in those keys... I'd have a chat with some like Theo Gibb (www.theboxplace.co.uk) who will be able to give you some options - he has stacks of old lachenal reeds from various restorations. He also knows the basics about pipes - most free reed restoriers won't and has done an excellent restoration job on a couple of concertinas for me already. cheers Rob Quoting Mike Dixon: I have a 20 Button Anglo C/G Lachenal which I had for years which I have done very little with. I am about to get it serviced ( more like a re-build I suspect!) and am considering getting it re-tuned to play along with NSP - either for me to have a go , or to lend to a friend so we can do some duets Would I be on the right lines to go for F/B Flat? I suspect at +20 cents? We are also looking at removing the bass on the left hand and putting some accidentals on the right - might be useful as I rarely use the bass buttons as such Any thoughts or advice Thanks Mike Dixon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Na - keep it up! Far better than a boring silence and complacency :) All this reminds me of a sermon we once heard preached at a massed Morris event, by Father Kenneth Loveless, the concertina (previously owned by Wm Kimber) playing Rector. The essence of it was that Spirit was the most important thing. Without it, we were wasting our time. Keep it up! R. On 21/12/2010 21:01, Anthony Robb wrote: <..> It would have saved us all, you especially, a huge chunk of time. Warmest& best Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
We've been at risk of straying onto the "which instrument is best?" territory here, methinks, but Jim's points are right, to my mind. And they bring me a few more thoughts which I hope are useful and not merely pompous! Some instruments are easier to make an acceptable sound on than others, (OK, acceptable to whom?) though I believe most to be equally hard to make play real music. Generalisations: Some, like harps, make a magic sound which attracts many people even if the player isn't that good, and can lure the player into thinking they're wonderful. Some, like the hurdy gurdy, are so fascinating that they attract people even when they aren't making a particularly nice noise: see above. Some, like squeeze boxes, easily fool the player into thinking they're doing a great job, because they are powerful: see above. Pipes, like fiddles, are hard even to get a decent sound from, but then need longer by far to turn that nice noise into music, and nsp's need more precision playing, I feel, than open-ended pipes, because of the very possibility of silence which Jim also mentioned as so important. And on all of these, making real music is then much harder, and tuning and setting up are both of prime importance. (Margaret Watchorn's article in the latest Journal is very much to the point.) On instruments like squeeze boxes it doesn't even occur to many players that adjustments are possible - it's tuned when you buy it, and that's it, sadly. String instruments may be hard to tune, but with the aid of ears.., or sadly, more often now, the electric tuner... they can be put into tune. Smallpipes, like hurdy-gurdies, depend a whole lot on the player to maintain the voice, and to go on doing so, and I suspect they're more demanding of constant attention than most instruments. And that's a skill which a lot of players need more confidence, and help, with. I know when mine sound right, (and thanks, Nigel, they do!!) but despite being very well shown by experts, I'm still not a reed maker, I hesitate to fiddle with a reed in case I make it worse, and I surely hesitate before adjusting a hole with a bit of shellac. And I wouldn't dare take any wood away. And yes, a really good player can make a poorer [insert instrument name here] sound better, and a music-less player is never going to make anything sound wonderful, but I do feel there are too many instruments of all sorts out there - whether harps, gurdies, squeeze boxes, fiddles or smallpipes, sold as "a beginner's instrument" to people who don't get the reward they deserve for lots of hard work, and may not even realise why. And that does perturb me on their behalf. Dunno if this helps at all. Regards, Richard. On 21/12/2010 11:09, Jim McGillivray wrote: Talking about "expression" outwith the context of tone, technique and rhythm is like talking about tone as detached from tuning. The most moving performances ar e always a combination of all three. One may play the greatest expression in the world, but if it is on an instrument the is not well tuned, it ain't music. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
(I've missed a day on this, while I was daft enough to honour a gig in Hampstead: 1 hr 40 there, 7 hours 20 back. The joys of the soft south!) You're absolutely right, John. It is, to adapt an earlier comment, pointless comparing apples and potatoes. But since we've mentioned it I was going to write and comment that it's all down to so many elements of time, place, mood, etc. And before seeing yours below, was going to say that for me hearing Billy Pigg (interesting how often his name crops up in this) playing the Wild Hills of Wannie just Did It when I when I was about 18, had never even heard of Northumbrian smallpipes or any pipes other than GHB's, (as played by buskers when crossing the border on Scottish holidays) ... a seed was set, and ever since then I wanted to play these things. (Pity it took until I was in my mid 50's before actually pursuing them!) And it is enormously subjective. It's like foods, tastes vary so widely. I'm not surprised that Paddy Keenan's Blackbird is John Gibbons' defining one (quite agree!) Irish pipes, Irish tune (yes I know they're an English invention). We could go off topic and discuss which instruments do different jobs for different people - for me a one row melodeon does a fantastic job with some dance tunes, but is 'orrible even when played by a great Irish master for a slow air. But that's another big discussion, and I've take us off topic too often recently, so I won't suggest it :) It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Best wishes, Richard. On 18/12/2010 17:51, John Dally wrote: Thanks to everyone for the edifying discussion. To me Doubleday seems to be saying, the NSP are a rude, wee thing with enough charm to make them worth preserving, and within its narrowest scope in its own way it's quite nice, really. Another way of looking at it is that he's saying "fa\g a phiob bhochd", "leave the poor pipes alone," which makes good sense to me too. All that is fair enough. Contrast that with George Sand's novel, The Bagpipers, which is truly inspired by the rude sounds of peasant instruments. I think she wrote about the same time as Doubleday. The discussion lost me when it took on the topic of most expressive instrument. "Whatever gets you through the night," as the late, great Liverpudlian once sang. All music is nostalgic and so much depends on your frame of reference. When I first heard the NSP when I was about fifteen I was drinking tea in a close corner by a wood stove after a cold, wet day of scavaging fire wood from a logged off patch where alder and madrona were left to rot. My friend, Sandy Ross (somehow related to Colin), put a recording of Billy Pigg on the record player and I was hooked. If he had put a recording of the best violinist in the world I would have hurried out the door without finishing my tea. There is much more to the context of that moment, social and personal, that made it so important to me. But suffice it to say that for all it's many flaws and short comings the NSP are the only thing that works to express some things for me, and every time I hear and play them that moment of contentment and happiness shines through. Of course, I have many flaws and shortcomings, which explains a lot! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
I'll think more on what he meant when I have more time! For expression - I quite agree with you on fiddle tunes. On the other hand, there are expressive tunes written primarily for pipes, surely, where they sound superbly best on pipes? And it is truly hard for anyone to make them work with these, because of the very dynamic limitations you mention. When I had some lessons with Jean-Pierre Rasle on my first Swayne pipes, he rightly said that the old pipers (in France in his case) rated it much harder to make a good job of a slow air than a dance tune. And it's all subjective, ain't it! For me, I find the nsp's far more expressive than my very nice toned piano accordion, which has any amount of dynamic control. All best wishes, Richard. On 17/12/2010 22:46, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Richard Doubleday wrote: The Northumberland small-pipe is fitted up upon the plan of construction common to all bagpipes aEUR" that is to say, aEUR" it consists of a pipe with stops, by means of which the melody is played, and of three longer pipes sounding different musical intervals in such a way as to produce a rude and imperfect accompaniment to the melody. Taking this in the context of his whole argument he seems to be saying that common forms of bagpipe have chanters which aren't in tune over their range and therefore clash with the constant reference point of the drones. But he then goes on to say that the special quality of the smallpipes is that they can be played in tune and make a melodious sound. It's interesting how we arrive at two contrasting interpretations of his words. For me he delights in the sound of the small-pipes. On the point of expression I've been moved to tears as much by the pipes as the fiddle. The question is, can they match the fiddle when playing the big fiddle tunes? I have to say after 45 years involvement at all levels in this music I have yet to find a single example. I would dearly love to as the pipes are my heritage. I heard them as a school boy and loved them more than any other instrument in the world, but loving them more than any other instrument is one thing, convincing myself they are the most expressive instrument in the world is another. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: key question
The only fitting response to this seems to me to picture the Charlie Brown cartoons - the image of Charlie with a sort of horizontal but wiggly line for his mouth - know the one I mean? Richard. On 15/12/2010 12:09, Francis Wood wrote: On 15 Dec 2010, at 12:05, Gibbons, John wrote: But Rob illustrates a simple feather duster - the 17 keyed ones are musically far more versatile... Is that a Peacock feather duster? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Clogging
I had various replies to this off list, so hope you don't mind a massed on-list reply. Thanks for them too, and apologies for a slight delay, we were busy becoming grandparents for the first time & were bit pre-occupied and very pleased!! I realise various people had various reservations about the programmes I enthused about. I quite see the reservations - finances mis-aimed, not presenting a complete picture, selected musicians only, others not credited, and then the folk programme of dubious quality, and trad or not? etc., but intend to stick to my guns. I agree with lots of the points people made. I know there were lots of flaws... gwawn, it's TV!!.. but in the midst of so much repeatedly narcissistic self-referencing tat, with ever more paint-shopped celebrities doing ever more dumbed-down things - ... [no, hang on, I hardly ever watch TV, so can't really say that, but the bits I do see, and all the things I hear and read reported, don't inspire me to go anywhere near most of it! Those who do, correct me if I'm utterly wrong] ... - with a commercially pushed wannabe image of cool things to do which reeeaaally reaaally need you to buy expensive cool stuff, and particularly not just go out and have fun doing apparently unsophisticated but skilled things in a community, like traditional dance and music, (ha ha, Morris dancers they're all elderly gay drunks anyway, and folk dancing, always good for a laugh too), it was so refreshingly constructive to see lots of people having a great time being un-cool and practising doing these same creative things, relating to the tradition of their region, enjoying it, and encouraging other people to go and try it, with no holding back on show. And watching the reaction on the faces of the public who realised that indeed good street theatre is vitally good stuff, if only for 5 minutes. Yes, of course it was edited carefully. Do you detect a little rant, here, dear reader? In the non-NE dance sense! So now I'm a grandfather I'm allowed to be a grumpy old man, huh? And I hate watching children being taught that it's wrong, by the media and by carefully commercially-pushed peer-pressure, to have this very enjoyment, so as you'll realise from the above, it hit a nerve. And indeed it would be great to see it all done properly, but at least TV was showing it, if only on BBC4, and it's hopefully a thin end of a wedge. OK, back to the washing up. Salutations. Richard. On 11/12/2010 21:18, Richard York wrote: And a truly smashing hour it was! Cheered up our evening no end, it did. Stuff like this really is what we need now, it was truly inspiring. The 60's Folk prog which followed was a right trip down nostalgia lane :) What's happening to TV? - all this, and last night the super programme by the Unthanks about dancing round England. At this rate folk culture will be in danger of being not uncool with The Masses!! And I've watched more TV in the last two nights than I have for a month. Best wishes, Richard. On 11/12/2010 13:36, Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a link to a snippet of tonight's programme on clogging. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Clogging
And a truly smashing hour it was! Cheered up our evening no end, it did. Stuff like this really is what we need now, it was truly inspiring. The 60's Folk prog which followed was a right trip down nostalgia lane :) What's happening to TV? - all this, and last night the super programme by the Unthanks about dancing round England. At this rate folk culture will be in danger of being not uncool with The Masses!! And I've watched more TV in the last two nights than I have for a month. Best wishes, Richard. On 11/12/2010 13:36, Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a link to a snippet of tonight's programme on clogging. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11930757 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipes with continuo?
Hi Dave, in haste - we have a mad w/e coming up & rehearsing like crazy - thanks greatly for this. I had a quick look & it deserves a lot longer reading, which I'm going to enjoy later on. Best wishes, Richard. On 02/12/2010 21:52, Dave S wrote: Hi Richard, [1]http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq= %22essays+in+musicology%22&source=bl&ots=ITEFvN0Hii&sig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_u bQ_wRLOiSuyQ&hl=en&ei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=resul t&resnum=1&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false The link is on google books and is about hornpipes, but may help towards a part answer to your question, have a look at the book "essays in musicology ---page 150" regards Dave Singleton On 11/25/2010 6:50 PM, Richard York wrote: I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of the things appearing in the nsp variations. (And yet different.)[Special aside for "Round the Horn" listeners :) ] Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where Peacock's sets arrived. So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument, (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened? Assuming it did. Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of playing them over a ground? (Please note, this *is* on topic!) Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3276 - Release Date: 11/24/10 08:34:0 0 -- References 1. http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22essays+in+musicology%22&source=bl&ots=ITEFvN0Hii&sig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_ubQ_wRLOiSuyQ&hl=en&ei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: semi-OT wireless mic query
That was quick! And interesting indeed. Thanks Anthony, I may well be back to you off list for more! Best wishes, Richard. On 25/11/2010 18:20, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Richard I use this one when I'm calling: [1]http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~AKG-WMS-40-Pro-Sports-Flexx ~ID~4834.asp The Castle Band caller Dave Normanton prefers it to the Beyer Dynamic one (-L-300+) that the Castle Band have. Also, Ali Anderson used it very successfully in a massive barn with 600 people in it recently! He used it against his natural instincts but admitted to being very impressed! I use an Accusound fiddle mic - it's a wired mic and cost -L-256! very tasty but not cheap! I think Accusound should be fine. The one from Sounds Live has a choice of frequencies to switch if someone else is on one of the frequencies. Very handy when the disco guy at the Newcastle Falcons club house had a mic that interferred with ours! We do some strange venues!! Cheers Anthony Get back to me for further info I can talk mics foe England. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, Richard York [2] wrote: From: Richard York [3] Subject: [NSP] semi-OT wireless mic query To: "NSP group" [4] Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 17:06 Hello. Sorry, I'm wandering off the smallpipes topics again, but lots of people here have fingers in various musical pies and valuable experience. - and I do plan to be introducing smallpipes into our ceilidh band soon, so it's not entirely off topic! Please has anyone experience of the Accusound wireless voice mic system, for a band caller, for good or ill? (Headset mic ACS-17-1 @ -L-35.00 + VAT, Miniature wireless system AC-WS-4 @ -L-160.00 + VAT) Or other sets you might recommend, or avoid? This Accusound set's a lot cheaper than some: someone recommended us a Shure system , PGX1 & PGX4, at around twice the cost, but if the Accusound is good I'm happy to have a bargain for our caller. If it's not I don't want us spending good money on poor gear. Any help most gratefully received. Second message, strictly ON topic follows soon! With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product%7Ename%7EAKG-WMS-40-Pro-Sports-Flexx%7EID%7E4834.asp 2. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 3. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 4. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Pipes with continuo?
I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of the things appearing in the nsp variations. (And yet different.)[Special aside for "Round the Horn" listeners :) ] Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where Peacock's sets arrived. So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument, (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened? Assuming it did. Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of playing them over a ground? (Please note, this *is* on topic!) Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] semi-OT wireless mic query
Hello. Sorry, I'm wandering off the smallpipes topics again, but lots of people here have fingers in various musical pies and valuable experience. - and I do plan to be introducing smallpipes into our ceilidh band soon, so it's not entirely off topic! Please has anyone experience of the Accusound wireless voice mic system, for a band caller, for good or ill? (Headset mic ACS-17-1 @ £35.00 + VAT, Miniature wireless system AC-WS-4 @ £160.00 + VAT) Or other sets you might recommend, or avoid? This Accusound set's a lot cheaper than some: someone recommended us a Shure system , PGX1 & PGX4, at around twice the cost, but if the Accusound is good I'm happy to have a bargain for our caller. If it's not I don't want us spending good money on poor gear. Any help most gratefully received. Second message, strictly ON topic follows soon! With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Help please
Thanks, Ian, for this link. Really useful, especially when it leads to Jakob Nielsen's pages, where I can feel virtuous about some bits my own site's design and learn that others need changing quite seriously! Richard. <> When I have had problems like this I often go back and re-read and angryish rant from the great Scottish singer Dick Gaughan which I came across when I first started setting up my own site. In someways it is a bit dated (what is Netscape..?) but the underlying argument is solidfinding out how to write in basic html is better than relying on proprietary web writing programs that can actually work against you. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JulSep/att-0200/rant.htm Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Sage Radio3 prog
Greetings from the rainswept Midlands! Radio 3's "Words & Music" last night was from the Sage, largely with NE theme, and three Tickells much in evidence, including some piping, singing, words, local choir, etc. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_T hinking_2010_Celebration/ Available for the rest of this week. Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_Thinking_2010_Celebration/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Sage Radio3 prog
Greetings from the rainswept Midlands! Radio 3's "Words & Music" last night was from the Sage, largely with NE theme, and three Tickells much in evidence, including some piping, singing, words, local choir, etc. [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_T hinking_2010_Celebration/ Available for the rest of this week. Best wishes, Richard. -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vf5cn/Words_and_Music_Free_Thinking_2010_Celebration/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
I will, and will let you know.
Not tonight though, sorry - 4.45 a.m. up this morning to drive to work
and a long day ... I'm off to bed next!
Richard.
On 04/11/2010 19:58, Gibbons, John wrote:
Give it a go on the gurdy too -
It will be interesting to know if this could have been the tune you asked about.
Does it lie as well under the fingers on a hurdy-gurdy as on NSP?
John
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard York [rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk]
Sent: 04 November 2010 18:42
To: NSP group
Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Me too!
And while between the day job taking up silly hours, and workmen
knocking the house about, I haven't had time to more than gloss any of
this last part, yes please - go on.
I look forward to getting time, and a lack of thunderous hammering, to
play this material this w/e - on pipes I promise! - and it's fascinating.
And I'm most grateful for the addition to the Gurdy repertoire!!
Thank you.
Richard.
On 04/11/2010 18:01, Richard Shuttleworth wrote:
I second that!
Richard
- Original Message - From: "Dave S"
To: "Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site"
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Original Message
Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:33:22 +0100
From: Dave S [1]
To: Matt Seattle [2]
Hey Matt,
carry on for me -- it's well worth the bandwidth, plus we get to see
some new works in progress
ciao
Dave S
On 11/4/2010 5:56 PM, Matt Seattle wrote:
Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and
myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know,
because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately.
If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out
that I have been crazy for longer than them.
I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made
mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second
Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that
(two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention
until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought
regarding the benefits of publication.
You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is.
X:1
T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night?
C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3)
C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998
M:6/8
R:Air
K:G
e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e|
dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf
d2e|
dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e|
dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/
d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e|
d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
[|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/
g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e|
d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
[|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/
=f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/
g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e|
d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
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Checked by AVG - [4]www.avg.com
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References
1. mailto:david...@pt.lu
2. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
4. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Me too! And while between the day job taking up silly hours, and workmen knocking the house about, I haven't had time to more than gloss any of this last part, yes please - go on. I look forward to getting time, and a lack of thunderous hammering, to play this material this w/e - on pipes I promise! - and it's fascinating. And I'm most grateful for the addition to the Gurdy repertoire!! Thank you. Richard. On 04/11/2010 18:01, Richard Shuttleworth wrote: I second that! Richard - Original Message - From: "Dave S" To: "Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night? Original Message Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night? Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:33:22 +0100 From: Dave S [1] To: Matt Seattle [2] Hey Matt, carry on for me -- it's well worth the bandwidth, plus we get to see some new works in progress ciao Dave S On 11/4/2010 5:56 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know, because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately. If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out that I have been crazy for longer than them. I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that (two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought regarding the benefits of publication. You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is. X:1 T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night? C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3) C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998 M:6/8 R:Air K:G e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e| dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf d2e| dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e| dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e| d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [4]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3236 - Release Date: 11/03/10 20:34:0 0 -- References 1. mailto:david...@pt.lu 2. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
And to complete the circle, there's a recording of both nsp's and gurdy at http://www.richardhaynesmusicservices.com/page6.htm I'm not saying it's state-of-the-art playing on either, but it's a very interesting and rather nice sound combination. It's only fair to read his comments first: it's track 8. And you can see the organistrum carving from Santiago in the V&A museum's castings gallery. Assuming it hasn't gone the way of their instruments gallery and been closed yet. It's rather pleasing to add that the Hurdy Gurdy discussion group currently has a photo of a carving from York Minster showing both a gurdy and bagpipes. Not smallpipes, but pleasant that a certain amount of twinning is going on here :) Richard. On 02/11/2010 23:47, Colin wrote: All you need to know: http://www.hurdygurdy.farmcom.net/front.html I actually play a flatback gurdy (not by this maker) from Germany made by Helmut Seibert.. There's something about drones.. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Gibbons, John" To: "Dartmouth NPS" Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organistrum for another name, a description, and a good picture. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar [phi...@gruar.clara.net] Sent: 02 November 2010 17:50 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Does this sound familiar to anyone else who knows more about this field of expertise? Yes. The symphony - more or less as you describe it, was a mediaeval version of the hurdy-gurdy. One of the best illustrations - of the big two-man version - is carvrd over the doorway of Santiago de Compostela cathedral. No time to write more just now - I'll post links and references later if anyone is interested, and unless someone else puts it all up here first! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
.. that's a cunning way of reminding me that while I still have your original yellow Bewick book, I ought to buy the new one too, Matt :-) I will order one anyway, but do you mean by this you think it's not Lord Randall either? (Sorry, being thick here - it'll probably be clearer once I own the book!) And yes, consensus evidence points firmly at "Jolly Good Fellow" for Moll Brook > Marlborough. Best wishes, Richard. On 01/11/2010 11:28, Matt Seattle wrote: "Where have you been all the night?" she describes as a "Scotch Tune". It's tempting to think she's mis-remembered the line in "Billy Boy", See the Note in the recently published NPS edition of Bewicks Pipe Tunes, which has a tune of the title which is *not* Billy Boy Might also possibly apply to Lord Randal Then there's "Moll Brook" I presume that the other responses relate to the "For he's a jolly good fellow" tune - ? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
Fantastic again! For a piping group this is really providing me with great hurdy gurdy stuff! Thank you, Colin. As with John, I expect if I'd typed the right question phrased the right way into Google... but you did and I'm delighted. As you say, it's not 100% conclusive, but if that's the contemporary illustration Mayhew would presumably have objected if that was not what she played. And it certainly goes with the text describing her guide accompanying her. Best wishes and more thanks, Richard. On 31/10/2010 19:07, Colin wrote: It's generally accepted that she played the hurdy gurdy. http://dl.tufts.edu/view_image.jsp?pid=tufts:MS004.002.054.DO01.00011 Hurdy gurdies were given to some to be able to make a living rather than going to the workhouse etc. That illustration is from 1851 (taken from an earlier daguerreotype) so she was still alive but, of course, unlikely to be taken from life (and we do all know how accurate newspapers, journals and books are, don't we). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Richard York" To: "NSP group" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to "Cymphan", thought to be from the older "symphony" and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered "Cymphan" type word may have become "Cymbal". But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the "cymbal". Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the "cymbal" is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
Fantastic again! For a piping group this is really providing me with great hurdy gurdy stuff! Thank you, Colin. As with John, I expect if I'd typed the right question phrased the right way into Google... but you did and I'm delighted. As you say, it's not 100% conclusive, but if that's the contemporary illustration Mayhew would presumably have objected if that was not what she played. And it certainly goes with the text describing her guide accompanying her. Best wishes and more thanks, Richard. On 31/10/2010 19:07, Colin wrote: It's generally accepted that she played the hurdy gurdy. http://dl.tufts.edu/view_image.jsp?pid=tufts:MS004.002.054.DO01.00011 Hurdy gurdies were given to some to be able to make a living rather than going to the workhouse etc. That illustration is from 1851 (taken from an earlier daguerreotype) so she was still alive but, of course, unlikely to be taken from life (and we do all know how accurate newspapers, journals and books are, don't we). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: "Richard York" To: "NSP group" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cymbal Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to "Cymphan", thought to be from the older "symphony" and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered "Cymphan" type word may have become "Cymbal". But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the "cymbal". Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the "cymbal" is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
It's difficult to know. I don't want to hijack too much time from the pipes here, and am asking the hurdy gurdy group to share any views on this. There are arguments for and against both dulcimer & gurdy as we know it, in the text. Thanks for the help, though! Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 18:28, Francis Wood wrote: On 31 Oct 2010, at 16:13, Richard York wrote: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the "cymbal". "Hurdy gurdy" has been used variously in the past to describe a number of very d ifferent instruments. I wonder whether "cymbal" is related to "cimbalom" (various spellings), the East ern European dulcimer? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cymbal
Hi Anthony, Thanks for this suggestion, which does indeed seem logical. The Hurdy gurdy net group were talking about early names for the gurdy recently, and this is where Old Sarah came up. Mayhew, who was an experienced journalist who interviewed hundreds of street people, so ought to know what he talked about, called it a hurdy gurdy. There's a Scots reference in the 16th C to "Cymphan", thought to be from the older "symphony" and that's one explanation. She was fairly old when she talked to him, and from the early repertoire she had she was possibly taught by an Irish or Scots musician, so a misremembered "Cymphan" type word may have become "Cymbal". But I certainly wouldn't go to the stake on that! The old lady also talked about having to keep the works covered so that pennies punters threw didn't get in and damage them. She spoke of having to learn tunes, and mastering them over a few weeks at first, so it wasn't a barrel organ type hurdy gurdy; and the dulcimer is lacking in interior works, so I'm fairly happy going with the gurdy as we now know it - there are pictures of people playing them on London streets. Thanks all for tolerating this excursion outside the Land Of Smallpipe. Best wishes, Richard. On 31/10/2010 16:38, Anthony Robb wrote: On 31 Oct Richard York wrote lots including: Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the "cymbal". Richard Can't help with the tunes I'm afraid but it might be that the instrument she calls the "cymbal" is in fact the cimbalom. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom. Good luck with your quest. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
John, I am both in your debt, and hugely impressed at the speed and thoroughness of your series of replies... you obviously got the proverbial bit between the teeth! Fantastic - I like ending up with Marlborough! And what's more it's a tune I can play on the gurdy when talking about Old Sarah, assuming the hurdy gurdy Mayhew talks of is indeed a hurdy gurdy and not a dulcimer, of course. (More about that to Anthony in a moment.) Again my very many thanks, John. Best wishes, Richard. (I'd love to know what the rest of the words were! ) On 31/10/2010 17:41, Gibbons, John wrote: To go with the anglicised title, there's a first line - "Moll Brook she went to be shaved," From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of R ichard York [[3]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk] Sent: 31 October 2010 16:13 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting! I'm hunting tunes. Nowt to do specifically with smallpipes, but at least one is Scots. And I know there are some mighty experienced tune historians among you And I have looked in Farne, Matt!:-) Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the "cymbal". He lists tune names she gives. Some, like "The Turnpike Gate" and "At Patrick's Day in the Morning" are on "The sessions" listing, though I can't know how much or little they've changed. Some others I can find, or know already, but I'm drawing a blank on three, and will be very grateful for any pointers. "Where have you been all the night?" she describes as a "Scotch Tune". It's tempting to think she's mis-remembered the line in "Billy Boy", but if there's a title out there it would be good to know. Then there's "Moll Brook", and "Harlequin Hamlet". Some others she mentions are trad. tunes like "Haste[n] to the Wedding" and "The Gal I left behind me" so while these may be stage tunes, it's apparent she was playing traditional dance tunes. She also says that she played Polkas, but doesn't name any. Thanks for looking - thanks for any info. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Tune hunt: OT but I hope interesting!
I'm hunting tunes. Nowt to do specifically with smallpipes, but at least one is Scots. And I know there are some mighty experienced tune historians among you And I have looked in Farne, Matt!:-) Henry Mayhew in the 1850's interviewed "Old Sarah" a blind Londonstreet hurdy gurdy player who was taught in the very early years of the 1800's to play what she called the "cymbal". He lists tune names she gives. Some, like "The Turnpike Gate" and "At Patrick's Day in the Morning" are on "The sessions" listing, though I can't know how much or little they've changed. Some others I can find, or know already, but I'm drawing a blank on three, and will be very grateful for any pointers. "Where have you been all the night?" she describes as a "Scotch Tune". It's tempting to think she's mis-remembered the line in "Billy Boy", but if there's a title out there it would be good to know. Then there's "Moll Brook", and "Harlequin Hamlet". Some others she mentions are trad. tunes like "Haste[n] to the Wedding" and "The Gal I left behind me" so while these may be stage tunes, it's apparent she was playing traditional dance tunes. She also says that she played Polkas, but doesn't name any. Thanks for looking - thanks for any info. Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Halsway 2011
Early hopeful planning request! I'm going to Halsway next March, and my wife is hoping to join half way through the w/e, to be in Francis' class. She's got a wedding gig in Reading on the Saturday, & would come on from it, though isn't 100% decided about booking yet. To save driving two cars all that way & back, we're wondering if anyone's passing Northampton with a spacious sort of car on the Friday, & willing to take me, plus instruments, and her celtic harp, please. I'd then go back with Liz. It would help sway in favour of her coming if anyone can, and of course I'll share costs for that journey down. Any replies - perhaps off list rather than clogging up the airwaves here - would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Proudlock's Hornpipe - OT: General M
Greetings,
I expect to be corrected, but I was told that the story was that
General M deliberately marched his men down slowly so that while he
hadn't overtly changed sides yet, they would arrive, O dear what a pity
chaps, too late to actually be there in time to prevent the Royalist
revival he really wanted, then later became much more open about it.
Hence the lovely stopped step of that Morris dance.
From Claude M Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 309
(footnote to 'The Highlanders' March'):
'A tune known variously as "Monk's March," "The Lord Monck's March" and
"General Monk's March" is found in The Dancing Master, 3d ed.
supplements; Musicks Hand-maid, 1678; Musicks Recreation on the Viol,
Lyra-way, 1682; volume two of The Dancing Master, 3d ed., 1718, and of
Walsh's Compleat Country Dancing-Master, 1719. It does not fit the
Euing ballad [Number 160, 'A Loyal Subjects Admonition, or a true Song
of Brittains Civil Wars', which cites as an alternative tune 'General
Moncks right march that was sounded before him from Scotland to
London'] nor is it adapted to other ballads citing such tune titles as
"Monk's March," "My Lord Monks March to London," "General Monks March,"
"General Monk hath advanc'd himself since he came from the Tower,"
"Monk hath confounded," "General Monk sail'd through the Gun-Fleet,"
"General Monk was a nobleman." These tune titles, associated with
ballads written in a variety of rhythmic and stanzaic patterns, have
nothing in common save their reference to the first Duke of Albemarle.'
Not sure if this helps, but there it is.
By the way, where does "My Faith it is an Oaken Staff" fit into the
history of all this? Mere coincidence or hymn writer working off a trad
tune again? In Googling it I'm told that "The Staff of Faith" tune is a
traditional Swiss melody.
Richard.
On 11/10/2010 18:02, Ian Lawther wrote:
Monck's March is an old tune now associated with morris dancing.
General Monck was a parliamentarian in the civil war largely
involved in actions in Scotland. After the death of Oliver Cromwell
and his replacement by Thomas Cromwell the Commonwealth started to
collapse. Monck changed allegiances and and marched his regiment
south from Coldstream in 1660 to restore the monarchy. His
regiment later became the Coldstream Guards. How soon after these
events the tune commemorating his march was written I don't know.
Another tune called Lord Monck's March was in the 1657 edition of
Playford and predated the famous march south so was probably simply
named for him.
I think the connections between the morris tune Monck's March and
Proudlock's Hornpipe are pretty clear. Some years ago I played an
adaptation of Proudlock's on the half-longs in the Society
competitions and have to say that when I made the arrangement I
referred back to the morris tune (published in the key of A in the
Morris Ring Handbook) as a starting point.
Ian
[1]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote:
Morning - there are some Proudlocks in my village doing some family
research and they've been aware of the tune for some time. I said
I'd see what I could find ...
Does anyone have any history, apocryphillia or references for the
tune? Here's what I have so far...
- The earliest printed reference I know of is the First NPS
tunebook.
- TOPIC have it played by Billy Ballentine on piccolo (1954 I
think)
- Various sources cross-reference it to the much older Monk's
March. I can see the similarity but it's distinct. I'm also unaware
of any reference to the Monk's March in older NSP related
manuscripts
- Often (mis)attributed to James Hill - Proudlock's Fancy is a
different tune
- Peter Kennedy recorded Jack Armstrong playing it in the 50s or
60s where it was listed as "Lewis Proudlock's Hornpipe". There's one
compilation CD ("Bagpipes of Britain & Ireland" CD-SDL416) where the
unattributed sleeve notes say:
'"Lewie" was a famous local fiddler and fisherman who composed many
tunes. He had no fixed job and moved around the county. His
grand-daughter used to play with Jack.'
If 'Lewie' wrote it then that would date it somewhere in the 70
years preceding the recording... I've never come across any of the
"many tunes" he composed. The only Lewis Proudlock I could find in
this period was born in Swinden (sic). He's listed in the 1851
census as being 12 yrs old.
- There was another Lewis Proudlock who was a Coquetdale Poet but
he was a bit earlier (d.1816)
cheers
Rob
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References
1. mailto:rob@milecastle27.co.uk
2. http://www.cs.dartmou
[NSP] Re: Sir Sidney Smith's March - Clough version
Ooops - said I was too tired. My wife just produced the book, Correction!! Gavott ( no "e") and I am sorry, it is the shorter version where the last phrase doesn't repeat. Sorry again, I was up far too early. Best wishes, Richard. On 08/10/2010 20:35, Pauline Cato wrote: It was me who picked this tune for the course - partly because it has a few nice bits in it which aren't in the NPS Bk1 version and partly because of that harmony line in bars 5 & 6. I was planning on having a bit of a discussion with the group about how closely we should stick to what is in the manuscript and at what point we decide that something may not be working musically (even though it is Clough!). Obviously this is rather subjective Pauline - Original Message - From: "Julia Say" [1] To: [2] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: [NSP] Sir Sidney Smith's March - Clough version I have been working on music for the Whitley Bay piping week and have discovered an anomaly in the above tune in the Clough book, p. 122. (actually, there were two in the MS but I see I've corrected one in the book.) Bar 5, the centre bar of the second pair of staves, has a complicated "tuplet" in the harmony stave. I have decided this bar is better represented (and is possibly more playable) by taking the dot off the previous crotchet (a G) and splitting the tuplet into two pairs of semiquaver triplets ((3Bdg (3dBG). These are matched with the quaver - 2 semi-quavers of the tune at this point (G2dc for the abc literate). The other MS error was in the following bar, where the demi-semi-quaver pattern at the end of the harmony stave was originally written as 4 semi-quavers with a "4- tuplet" marking over them. Moral: no matter how famous the writer / composer, always question apparent illogicalities in anything they write down! Hope this helps someone, at least. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:julia@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Sir Sidney Smith's March - Clough version
Subjective indeed... especially when John Clare gives the tune ( I believe in its non-abridged version, but I'm sorry, I'm too tired to go & check just now) as a Gavotte by Handel. :) Richard. On 08/10/2010 20:35, Pauline Cato wrote: It was me who picked this tune for the course - partly because it has a few nice bits in it which aren't in the NPS Bk1 version and partly because of that harmony line in bars 5 & 6. I was planning on having a bit of a discussion with the group about how closely we should stick to what is in the manuscript and at what point we decide that something may not be working musically (even though it is Clough!). Obviously this is rather subjective Pauline - Original Message - From: "Julia Say" [1] To: [2] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: [NSP] Sir Sidney Smith's March - Clough version I have been working on music for the Whitley Bay piping week and have discovered an anomaly in the above tune in the Clough book, p. 122. (actually, there were two in the MS but I see I've corrected one in the book.) Bar 5, the centre bar of the second pair of staves, has a complicated "tuplet" in the harmony stave. I have decided this bar is better represented (and is possibly more playable) by taking the dot off the previous crotchet (a G) and splitting the tuplet into two pairs of semiquaver triplets ((3Bdg (3dBG). These are matched with the quaver - 2 semi-quavers of the tune at this point (G2dc for the abc literate). The other MS error was in the following bar, where the demi-semi-quaver pattern at the end of the harmony stave was originally written as 4 semi-quavers with a "4- tuplet" marking over them. Moral: no matter how famous the writer / composer, always question apparent illogicalities in anything they write down! Hope this helps someone, at least. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:julia@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune Information
Fair point - I just leapt to the one I know best! Richard. On 28/09/2010 17:22, Gibbons, John wrote: Was the 'Kettle Drum' in the query referring to the D dorian Playford tune, or the G major Scottish polka - in one of Matt's Piper's Pocket Books? John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha lf Of Richard York Sent: 28 September 2010 16:19 To: Greenley, Gordon; NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Tune Information Kettle Drum is in the 1650 Playford's Dancing Master, for one. Dunno about its actual origins, but that's a collected and published source for it. Best wishes, Richard. On 28/09/2010 15:53, Greenley, Gordon wrote: Does anyone have any information on the origins of the following tunes? * Because he was a bonny lad * Golden eagle * Gentle maiden * Kettle drum * Holmes' fancy * Hazlewood * My home Many thanks Gordon Greenley -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune Information
Kettle Drum is in the 1650 Playford's Dancing Master, for one. Dunno about its actual origins, but that's a collected and published source for it. Best wishes, Richard. On 28/09/2010 15:53, Greenley, Gordon wrote: Does anyone have any information on the origins of the following tunes? * Because he was a bonny lad * Golden eagle * Gentle maiden * Kettle drum * Holmes' fancy * Hazlewood * My home Many thanks Gordon Greenley -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: 4-bar reels
I grovel.
- and of course you're right.
Yours in deep humility,
Richard.
On 08/09/2010 15:26, Julia Say wrote:
On 8 Sep 2010, Gibbons, John wrote:
Probably not a typo.
No, John is correct. Not a typo.
There are quite a few of these scattered through society publications (and
elsewhere, but I'll stick to what I know about). As a tune form they are
widespread, but survive alive and played in our area and Shetland for just two.
Try The Steam Plough and Harlow Hill Lads (early C19) in NPS 3 , Dear Tobacco
(prob. C17) in the Charlton Memorial (amongst many others therein).
As to "who writes those now?" well here you go:
(fans of simple abc may need to remove the mtex dialect bits)
X:5943
T:The Snow Wind
C:J Say, Jan 2009
M:C|
L:1/8
E:11
K:G
DF|:G2\
\segno r
BG dGeG|cBAG FGAD/F/|G2 BG dGeG|1 cAFA G2 GD/F/:|2 cAFA\
E:11
G2 Gd||\
g2 eg dgBg|Ggfg agfg|g2 eg dgBg|\
agfd g2 gd|*
g2 eg dgBg|Ggfg agfg|g2 eg dgBg|cAFA G2 \
GD/F/\
\zcharnote s {D.S.}
||Ggaf\
\zcharnote t {Last time}
g2 g2||**
There's a picture of this on my Facebook page which can be seen by all at:
[1]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=218192&l=7627d258f1&id=10860900639
(or so the Facebook instructions tell me!)
I am not the only one who writes them, nor is this the only one I have.
Hope this helps
Julia
--
References
1.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=218192&l=7627d258f1&id=10860900639
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[NSP] Re: Competitions
It seems mean of me to pick up typos, Julia, 'cos I certianly maek planty, but I do like the idea of a 4 bar reel. Perhaps this should be a special class of its own in the said competitions. :) Richard. On 08/09/2010 11:05, Julia Say wrote: 1. Recently I have been playing through the winning compositions printed in the NPS Magazine. (Many are delightful!) I notice that most are 16-bar tunes. Is this considered to be the ideal length? This is one of the common "dance tune" lengths in this area. There are also 4-ba r reels, 48 bar jigs..etc etc -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Competitions
Looking forward with interest to replies you get, Sheila. Just to complicate things further, I was thinking yesterday about the composition class, and what would happen in a piece arranged with other instruments. If one entered a tune with a line for a non nsp-instrument - assuming this is allowed in the first place - would the writing out of the other part have to take into account the pipes' transposing pitch? It is after all nearly a Bb instrument. Or would you just write the whole thing out as if everyone was playing at A440? OK, it's an arcane point, maybe, but makes a big difference to what you get out the other end! Richard. On 08/09/2010 02:10, [1]bri...@aol.com wrote: Dear piping friends I am sure that to many of you these few questions regarding the competitions are going to seem ridiculous, with very obvious answers, You no doubt find the ru les that are set out in the last Newsletter are all that is needed. Those who live in Northumberland and have attended the various competitions for years, are familiar with the "unwritten" rules for the different classes. Howe ver, for those living at some distance, and/or who have never attended previousl y but who are possibly considering entering, there are still some points which a re not quite clear. <..> Class 3 Compositions: 1. Recently I have been playing through the winning compositions printed in the NPS Magazine. (Many are delightful!) I notice that most are 16-bar tunes. Is this considered to be the ideal length? 2. I notice also, that they are all a solo melodic line. Are duets are not cons idered? 3. Most of these tunes are easily sight-read - this also is a pre-requisite? (Sometimes a tune can have interesting, though unexpected, bars, which may seem difficult initially but become easy after having been practiced a few times. W ould these tend to be thrown out immediately by a judge?) 4. Are compositions sent in showing the actual name of the composer? Or are p seudonyms used so that the judge is not biased in his/her expectations? <...> Possibnly I am not the only "outsider" who would be grateful for some further cl arifications. Warmest regards, Sheila -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:bri...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Musical Instruments Museum in Brussels
Just take a sleeping bag and several days' food with you - once in, it's difficult to leave, as you keep on seeing just one more thing you Really need to look at... Richard. On 24/08/2010 09:09, Edric Ellis wrote: Hi all, Apologies if this is common knowledge - couldn't see it mentioned in the archives. If you're in Brussels, the Musical Instruments Museum ([1]http://www.mim.be/en) is very well worth a visit. They have 60 sets of bagpipes of all types, including a musette de cour (with a very elaborate bag cover that makes it look like some sort of cushion rather than a set of pipes), and a set of NSP (Reid I believe). Cheers, Edric. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.mim.be/en 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Skinny-piping
There would seem to be both pro- and con- tune titles on the subject, depending on your point of view and the weather. Hoop her and ungird her. Tom Hackett's Dream Delight of the men of Caernarvon The General Toast John the Red Nose, Carolan's Draught Bonny at mid-afternoon - morn being far too chilly! Richard. On 16/08/2010 15:52, Francis Wood wrote: On 12 Aug 2010, at 09:55, Richard York wrote: a possible need for a new sub-group within the NPS, the naturist section Since August is still with us, should we compile a suitable repertoire? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag cloth
On 12/08/2010 11:05, Richard York wrote: Go on, someone plase suggest tattooing the bag :) R On 12/08/2010 11:01, Philip Gruar wrote: Does this still work if the skin is covered with tattoos? Philip - Original Message - From: "Barry Say" [1] To: "NSP group" [2] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Bag cloth Does anyone remember a thread from the distant past when a now well-respected piper suggested playing in one's skin was a good way of discovering bellows leaks? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bag cloth
Thanks to all for the wealth of information. Barry's reply suggests a possible need for a new sub-group within the NPS, the naturist sectionon second thoughts, I don't even want to picture it!! Best wishes, Richard. On 11/08/2010 22:09, Barry Say wrote: <> But why bother with a cover. With a really nice leather bag such as Jackie Boyce or a leather craftworker would make, why not go au naturelle. Barry <> I'm replacing the cover for my bag, <>Has anyone out there any experience of other cloths and their potential drawbacks? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Bag cloth
Greetings. I'm replacing the cover for my bag, due to replacing the leather bag with a longer necked one, which would otherwise poke out in an undignified way. I've only ever seen velvet used on bag covers so far. Is it just a fine tradition, or is there some reason why other cloths may be inappropriate? Has anyone out there any experience of other cloths and their potential drawbacks? If I do end up with a different cloth, do I get excommunicated, or burnt, or anything like that? Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Roslyn Castle
Indeed, more & more interesting. I still feel it sounds convincingly more Welsh than Scots once you hear it with appropriate chords, all dark and minor. (Not miner) Not that I'm at all stubborn :-) Richard. On 27/04/2010 20:13, Francis Wood wrote: On 27 Apr 2010, at 19:50, Julia Say wrote: I'd also heard this one, but with the instrument as a military fife, which had a d# key. I think there was speculation that this is why the seventh key to be placed on an nsp chanter was that d#. Interesting thought. There are very few known 6 key chanters, though. Perhaps 5 or 6. One formerly belonged to Burl Ives. Haydn was another admirer of the Roslyn Castle melody and included it among the songs he arranged for the Edinburgh publisher George Thomson. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rosslyn Castle
Fair 'nuff! (I meant "or" not "of Welshness" - but guess you knew that ) On 26/04/2010 18:23, Matt Seattle wrote: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Richard York <[1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> wrote: what about the Scottishness of Welshness of the shape of the tune? I don't know enough about Welshness to comment, but to me the tune sounds more rooted in a particular time than a particular place. -- References 1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rosslyn Castle
Thanks Matt,
I had a suspicion you'd have more information!
The story is indeed that of the Apprentice Pillar. Thanks for the
correction about the building.
Without casting any doubt on the claims of Oswald to have written it
down, the date of 1746 does relate nicely to the possibility of it
having travelled with this relation of the Welsh DavidofRock.
Might Oswald have heard it, or McGibbons if 'twas him, have heard it
and worked from there?
I won't push for comment on the story - what about the Scottishness of
Welshness of the shape of the tune?
You know far more than most about the harmonic & melodic structure of
different traditions of tunes. Any comment on that?
Best wishes,
Richard.
On 26/04/2010 13:57, Matt Seattle wrote:
An early sighting is in Oswald CPC Vol 4 where it is called Roselana
Castle: 2 strains of air followed by 2 of variation followed by 4
'Brisk' 6/8 jig strs. The tune has been attributed to Oswald - it was
previously published by McGibbon as Glamis Castle in 1746 but Purser's
notes in the CDR edition of CPC lend support to a claim for Oswald -
the two men knew each other and were both Freemasons.
I don't have Andy's CD but if his story is about a mason I suspect it
relates to the Apprentice Pillar in Roslin Chapel - a different
building. The Welsh story - no comment.
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Richard York
<[1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk> wrote:
Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS
books. I'd like to find more about the origin.
The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a
great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I
sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the
terrible deed.
But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th
leaps in a minor tune.
We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT
thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is
very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously.
She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously
Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th),
travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took
the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing
of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the
David Of etc tune.
On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when.
While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp
repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please?
Thanks,
Richard.
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References
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2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Rosslyn Castle
Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS books. I'd like to find more about the origin. The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the terrible deed. But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th leaps in a minor tune. We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously. She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th), travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the David Of etc tune. On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when. While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please? Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Jack Dodd, OT: acronyms
AFAIK I hadn't met YMMV, so looked it up on the acronym finder "Your Market May Vary"? Incidentally I was then moved to look at what else they had to offer. My favourite so far is "YMMS" which can apparently be "You make me smile". How nice. Or it can mean "You make me sick". So reassuring to know it's unambivalent, then ;-) R. On 06/04/2010 08:49, Julia Say wrote: On 5 Apr 2010, John Dally wrote: Playing through some of Jack Dodd's tunes today, I wondered if anyone on the list could tell me about him, or send me to some resource on the web that might have information about him. Jack Dodd is still with us, and lives in Embleton. He is father to Margaret Watchorn (of this parish) - who presumably would be best placed to provide details. AFAIK he doesn't "do" the internet. He used to play pipes, and in my time, played banjo with Dishalagie. I received a lot of help from him when I first went to Alnwick pipers' meetings in the early 90s. He and George Mitchell (separately) gave me some really good advice, which I try to remember. I consider his tune "The Flowers of Ashgill" - in Alnwick's book 2 - to be one of the best old-fashioned waltz tunes ever - YMMV. Hope this helps Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Reeds
What a great idea indeed seems to be building momentum. I really enjoyed watching Andy May's demo at Halsway of making/scraping a reed. I suspect it's not quite as easy as he made it look :-) but as you say, it's a skill we all need. And fiddle tuning - while I was in a music shop some time ago a woman came in with a violin, and asked them to tune it. Apparently she'd been doing this once a week for ages! Best wishes, Richard. R. Evans wrote: For ten years or more I have been using second-grade chanter reeds (and spare chanters) in hands-on workshops for the Lowland and Borders Pipers Society. This allows people to practice adjusting reeds (and, indeed, simply learn to handle them properly) without any risk to their own pipes. The basics of reed adjustment and setting are pretty easy, but need to be learned like anything else. I think this sort of thing should be part of any piping instruction day/course and that players should be firmly encouraged in this direction. Not being able to do this, or recognise when it needs doing, would be like playing a fiddle without being able to tune it. Come to think of it, there are a few people in that position too! Cheers Richard -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
And beware of the Wrong sort of foam! For various instrument cases some years ago I got this superb stuff from a car upholsterer: foam-backed cloth with quite a raised nap - smashing and quite classy looking .. for the first 12 - 15 years. After which the foam de-natures and fills the case, and the instrument, with really annoying tiny bits of foam. Ideal in a hurdy gurdy. More recently I used free sheets of expanded polystyrene packing from some flat-pack furniture, cut & glued in place with charity shop velvet curtain over the top. (PVA or Copydex) Heat & impact protection, and the curtain looks classy as long as it's plain and dark. Richard. Victor Eskenazi wrote: .. Oh, then of course comes putting in the foam padding... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
This is especially true if you have the skill and the right saw to cut the whole thing in two with a decent straight line which meets up with itself in all the right places... Richard. Paul Gretton wrote: BTW, anyone thinking of building their own (wooden) case might benefit from the following tip: Don't make the two parts separately - the case itself and the lid -- and then try to fit them together. What the factories do is build the case closed and then saw it open to create the two parts. This makes the woodwork much simpler and you get a more accurate joint. I was only alerted to this AFTER already building a couple of cases. D'oh... J Cheers, Paul Gretton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
I have a really useful lightweight case made from the ribbed black duct/pipe/tube whatever you may call it, about 6 or 7 inch internal diameter, which I rescued from surplus when they were laying new electric cables near us some 12 years ago. The nice man said that that pile was surplus offcuts, so I rescued some, and passed the other bits on to other pipers. (It no longer says "East Midlands Electricity" so clearly on it any more.) My dad kindly turned some wood into end plugs, one removable for the lid, fitting into a junction bit that was lying around. I wouldn't trust it with grenades, nor even squaddies jumping up & down on it (does this guy really hate his case so much?) but in normal robust use it's great, light, and waterproof. And you can tie a carrying strap firmly into the corrugations of the outside layer without having to make any holes in it. The only down side is that it's prone to roll, in the back of the car, or if placed on a slope, so no putting it down on riverbanks, for example! Keep your eyes open when driving past roadworks. They come in various sizes. Mine carries a set of Jon Swayne mouthblown G pipes very happily. I also use a drainpipe sawn in half longways and hinged, which came with a very second hand bass curtal I bought ages ago. It's even been tastefully covered with "Fablon" (remember it?!) wood effect sticky vinyl to make it look more like a proper case! Lined with foam, it works a treat. Best wishes, Richard. colin wrote: I do recall, on another piping list, someone mentioning using a length of (wide) plastic drainpipe with a strap riveted on for carrying purposes (the ends being made from drainpipe "end bits" they use to seal off a pipe - the unused end being stuck with the solvent.. Of course, quite waterproof but one would have to ensure the bellows fitted in as well.. Colin Hill. PS Yeah, I remember the Dutch guy and his Pelican case. I think he also has his squad jumping up and down on it as well. All survived. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: pipe cases
There are just too many obvious openings for unkind remarks about why one would bother to take the Gurdy out before trying the test but as a gurdy player I'm far too kind to make them. :-) Richard. There is a Belgian on the HurdyGurdy list, who is in the military, who has tried to blow up his Pelican case (empty) with grenades but it survived intact. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments now OT
Haven't tried cyanide, but did "do" Wagner with passionate Wagner-phile 'A' level Music teacher many years ago. Sorry, Paul, it was as a result of that I got to dislike them... but hope you enjoy The Ring Cycle! Best wishes and apologies to all for another OT excursion! Richard. Francis Wood wrote: On 7 Feb 2010, at 13:38, Paul Gretton wrote: Nice one, Richard. But did you know that a recent survey showed that 96.83% of people who say that they "don't like Wagner's operas" have never actually heard or attended one? ;-) Actually I don't like cyanide. Never tried it though, I must admit! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
And there's also the great mix of Andy May's pipes & Sophie Ball's fiddle on his Happy Hours CD. Smashing. (Official Disclaimer: the terms, "Great mix" and "smashing" here represent expressions of personally held opinions of musical taste, for which I alone am responsible, and with which others may find they wish to disagree. This is their right, just as some people love Wagner's Operas and I don't, despite a classical musical education. But I like this mix.) :-) Richard. rosspi...@aol.com wrote: The High Level Ranters were based on the mix of fiddle and pipes that I had discovered with Forster Charlton in the lat 1950's. Colin R -Original Message- From: John Dally To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:45 Subject: [NSP] NSP duet with other instruments I've been listening to a lot of UP flat set and fiddle duets, and playing my SSP in A a bit with a fiddler. I'm smitten with the sound mix of low pipe and fiddle. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: vachement bien!
Vraiment!!! Merci. christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jedd2FiZTqM To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags
Wow! And quite apart from an illustration of an interesting bag position, (which is where we came in), & even more interesting bellows with angled attitude, I'm impressed by his using the lower 4th finger as the accompaniment on the harmony half of the double chanter while the rest of the same hand works with his left hand to produce the tune. Now there's a challenge to all you makers - double chanter nsp's? - not just musettes with extra notes on second chanter, but actual double chanter (Hastily takes cover.) Richard. Anita Evans wrote: Julia Say wrote: Why have I suddenly (and inexplicably?) become even more grateful to Jackie Boyce.. and to those fates that decreed I was going to play a different type!! indeed - at least with the 'standard' bag you can pretend it was never an animal... I picked this at random on youtube, but it illustrates the bag origins very nicely I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eob8pDcXhV4 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags
[With apologies - sent this to the NPS list by mistake first] Which brings me to a question which has long puzzled me: when you have a pipes bag using an entire goat/sheep/dog/wo'evva, with no seams, just the holes at the ends of arms and legs and things, how do you get the animal out through said quite small holes without spoiling the skin? And I do realise one answer is "make sure it's dead first," it's the next stage I'm concerned about. Richard. P.S. A friend tells me that the USA market was offered, specially for Burns Night, a humane Haggis killer. Francis Wood wrote: On 28 Jan 2010, at 18:25, Dave S wrote: the wind blows hard enough to turn dogs inside out Enthusiasts of the zaqq (Maltese bagpipes) should take note: The bag was traditionally made of (preferably) dogskin, but goat- and calfskin w ere also used; there are ethnographic reports that skins of large tomcats also s erved. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
As I understand it, the shape you get if a cartoonist wants to depict a drop of water: pointy top smoothly widening to rounded belly shape, and in my mind, the top is not straight but bends off to the side the chanter's going to go. Again, like the cartoon drop of water. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. More mathematical descriptions are certainly available, and will be comprehensible to some Richard. Francis Wood wrote: I've seen the 'tear-drop' description used several times in this discussion. I think I know what it means but that remains my guess only.. For many others reading this discussion (if they are) it must be a fairly puzzling and unsatisfactory description. What exactly are we talking about here? Francis On 28 Jan 2010, at 10:57, Philip Gruar wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
This thread is great - thanks again all. Resonance affected by neck shape, air flow etc - forgive my ignorance but does the presence of a bit of foam in the top of the split stock, put there I assume to prevent either seasoning escaping into chanter or loose reed escaping into bag, not affect airflow more than bag shape? Does this still apply if the foam plug is in place? And stitching leather is easier for some jobs when it's wet, and for turning it inside out enormously so. All ye best, Richard. Dave S wrote: Hi Richard, Other slight annoyances occuring when messing with bags/neck is "resonance" or a change in the resistance to airflow. Some bag/neck shapes give rise to top A and top B sounding flat at which point the unsuspecting will start chopping or scraping reeds - BEWARE Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: bag shape
Thanks greatly to one and all for these - great food for thought here. I'm interested that everyone's addressed the matter of how to make the existing bag shape comfortable, but no-one has offered experience of the tear-drop shape - are they very rare, or just deeply heretical? Meanwhile I shall try every position from armpit downwards for my existing bag, and seriously examine the matter of neck length. Its neck, not mine. (Thanks too, Mike S, for the off-list advice on position photo's - I'll try that.) I imagine, Barry, that bellows blowpipe length also came into your shifts of bag position? Interesting too the matter of which way the seam goes. I was convinced at first that it was the seam which was getting to me, but now think it's the bulge of the square bag shape - as suggested earlier in this string. Thanks Francis too for pointing up the pics on my own website... in fairness in have to say that while the Jon Swayne huge Flemish set and renaissance-type smaller set (both all brown) are comfortable, Jon does make the seam the modern way round. In the case of the massive Flemish set I've had to mend the protective strip on the outside of the seam more than once, as it's stuck rather than stitched in place. The Jim Parr medieval gaita-type ones (black bag, light boxwood) and the little hummelschen both have the seams on the inside and are very comfortable indeed. I've never had problems with the seasoning in them. Best wishes, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] bag shape
I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please. There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop shape. I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D border pipes, and have got used to & comfortable with them. I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, but haven't yet cracked the problem. It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more relaxed and less pressured. But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of this shape. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
