On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Gibbons,
John <[1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote:
There is also the question of what did Dixon intend by his blank key
signature?
Did it mean 'this tune is in Gmix/Cmajor or Adorian'?
Or did it mean, as with Highland pipe music,
'I
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Gibbons, John
<[1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote:
Dixon's MS includes many tunes with Scottish versions/antecedents.
And interestingly, pipe versions of two Scottish tunes unknown in pipe
versions in Scotland, and the first known use of the Stool
Not our pipes, but has anyone else seen this morning's Scotsman?
[1]http://www.scotsman.com/news/pipes-play-music-of-love-for-edinbur
gh-zoo-pandas-1-2209167#
An excellent April fool, and obviously written by someone who knows
something about the subject
--
References
If it's in tune, and if it makes life easier, use it.
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Kevin <[1]tilb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi to All,
I am curious to know if any of the pipers who play open-ended
pipes,
such as the Border Pipes, mouth blown of with bellows, use or h
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Anthony Robb
<[1]anth...@robbpipes.com> wrote:
Here is what Forster Charlton, Colin Ross and Roland Wright put
in the
introduction to the second edition to the NPS 1st Tune Book:
"Small Coals and Little Money and Cuckold Come Ou
Kevin
There's not a single answer as different tunes demand different
treatments. Some are actually better in G major with the sharp 7. I did
not wish to impose this on my transcription of the manuscript (which is
originally 'in G' rather than 'in A') but I do mention it in my text.
>From the Rusty Gulley website:
"The group Rusty Gulley takes its name from a tune in a 1770s Northumbrian
manuscript. Like many old collected tunes it has various alternative names, one
being The Three Rusty Swords.
This does not inspire confidence. The tune also known as 3 Rusty Swords is Ri
Most of us knew that; my point is that the tune which many people call Rusty
Gulley is (annoyingly, disappointingly, but actually) called Risty Gulley
On Thu Nov 10 18:05 , 'john.pam.routledge' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>In County Durham ( bordering Northumberland) in the '50s a gulley was
>cer
On Thu Nov 10 17:49 , Christian Crowley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>Now I need to build a hydro mamometer
Don't mix up your maNometer with your maMMogram, and if you do, be VERY careful
who you approach with your maMometer...
Congratulations on the new pipes
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Not much help, but I know that the Dark Island was published as a piece of sheet
music with the words. I've seen it but I don't have it. And it is still in
copyright, so beware of any infringement.
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The first lyric that Robyn gives (by Silver) is the one I recall from the
'oficial' sheet music, it also seems to be the only one that actually fits the
tune.
>Now that's interesting. Thank you for all the feedback. I'd no idea it
>was so recent. The words I'd got were the Stewart Ross ones, but
I believe there's a good medicated shampoo available now which, while it doesn't
get rid of it completely, should at least give you some relief.
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On Tue Feb 21 10:39 , 'Miguel Costa' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
That link is to something very vclose to the STANDARD version of the song, it
is
NOT in C minor but E flat major, and the 2 bars 'marching down to Rochester'
should be only 1 bar with half the note lengths.
>And I have excellent ne
ey.
Hasta la vista
>Are you sure about the key? I was assuming that the fourth line from
>the top was G (hence, A flat, B flat and E flat, as marked on the key
>= C minor).
>As for the possible transcription errors, it's possible, but I don't
>know the song.
>
>
>> a) Is there a Northumbrian word for hat or headress/bonnet?
Baseball cap
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I sympathise with those unfortunate enough to have a speech impediment Steve,
but
yoursisindeedaregrettablecaseofkeyboardstammer.
On Mon May 15 10:07 , Stephen Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>The "traditional" playing of Tom Cl
Thanks for that Steve. Imean,ThanksforthatSteve.
Matt
On Tue May 16 1:39 , Stephen Douglass <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>Actually Matt if you were aware of the early computer typing
>tradition this is pure "traditional staccato style" with out gracing
T
Dave, I'm not a smallpiper but I do play the fiddle and those look like fiddle
articulations to me.
Please don't call Peacock a manuscript, people are confused enough already. As
for O'er the Dyke it's a bit of a mystery tune, there's a similar but earlier
version in Aird's collection and a very d
An OFFLIST reply is precisely that, it wasn't meant to be public but now it is.
I
stand by what I wrote, as I also stand by not sending it out for public
consumption because I have no wish to cause offence. Let the rumpus begin.
For the record, I've heard, and played with, many of the choyters an
>give us a clue. what is a choyter and what is a pea-sheller
Maybe the message didn't get through after all then, whew!
choyter - slurs notes
pea-sheller - plays staccato
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OK OK, shell your peas, but divvent lose the pulse
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Very interesting John, but they are a better fit with the other Highland Laddie
derived from the Lass of Livingston. Because of the rhythm they'll naturally
also
fit a large number of other reels and Scots measures.
Before signing off for my late night birl practice it's worth reminding
ourselve
That sounds eminently sensible Andy.
I am in the unenviable position of judging the Lowland Pipes and will interpret
the rules following my own prejudices, IOW if you play a bunch of short tunes
lasting just under 4 minutes you won't stand a chance next to the person who
plays a Dixon or Peacock v
>Sorry Ian, for a committee who regard the likes of Spootiskerry and the
>Lemonville Jig as traditional Northumbrian tunes, your suggestion would be
>lost on them.
Ladies, Gentlemen, on the one hand it's good that some people take the tradition
seriously, on the other let us not be surprised that
And a quick acknowledgement of both the Morpeth Gathering and NPS competitions,
and any others which do not impose an unrealistic time limit on variations.
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>I hear that photos from the 2006 Pipers' Gathering are now up on our website
>at:
>
>http://www.pipersgathering.org/Gallery2006/index.shtml
Just had a look - what a relief I didn't go this year - all the blokes are now
bald, even the ones who weren't bald last year. Is it something in the water?
>> Sunday, October 29, 2006 3:54 PM Peter Dunn wrote:
How about
>> a
>> concerto for pipes and orchestra or modern jazz for pipes?
A concerto for pipes is a possibility IF the composer knows what he/she is doing
and understands the possibilities - and limitations - of the pipes.
But modern jazz?
>Maybe we need that triangle of player, maker, composer somewhere
>Matt...
You're misquoting me somewhat Julia, and it was Chris who first mentioned the
triad of music, pipes and piper, which is the triad of 'piping'. The composer -
if I can risk being metaphysical - is someone who is not necess
On Thu Nov 2 0:37 , 'Doc Jones' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>I've been watching the jazz thread a bit. There seems to be a certain
reluctance to see the NSP being used in venues that are not strictly
traditional.
The jazz thread is a total red herring. Nobody can play jazz on the NSP, the
peopl
A few points in the ongoing debate-
1/ I don't think there's any inherent problem using the pipes in a classical
setting, it depends completely on how it's done. I didn't hear the
Maxwell-Davies
piece (sorry, I don't know him well enough to call him Max) so I cannot say
anything about it. I've he
On Sat Nov 4 0:37 , 'Doc Jones' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent:
>I'd just hate for the NSP to end up as one of those instruments that a century
from now is only known and appreciated by players and admirerers of "antique
music" and "antique musical instruments".
This precisely echoes Thomas Bewick's
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 3:20 PM
>Subject: [NSP] Re: preserving the traditiona non-traditional approach
>This is why I begged that
>some
>> of the people who are imbued with the tradition, and know which are, and
>> which are not, the truly traditional tune
Somebody on the list, perhaps called T***y, sent me a private reply to my group
message. I took the time to send a private reply to their message - it was
returned as spam.
Thank you to all those who have ordered the book, their copies are on the way.
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Given that the writer only wrote 7 bars every other line, do we take
the rest of rhythm literally, as syncopated throughout, or a mistake?
In other words, is it really dotted crotchet, crotchet, quaver, or the
more common dotted crotchet, quaver, crotchet - ?
And PLEASE don't quote the whole threa
There is an alternative in German: a curious onlooker, wondering which
bits of the pipes did what, enquired whether the drones were the
'Auspuff', i.e. the exhaust (the part of a car N Americans call the
silencer).
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Well I thought it was pretty good
Here's a new tune, hot off the press, to celebrate the TV appearance of
> Bolton's greatest piper - the legendary Shameless Ennis!
--
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As I understand it - and I haven't researched this extensively - there
are 2 main versions, one is very old and much simpler than the rest,
and is from a 1600s Scottish mandour tablature book. It's recorded by
Rob MacKillop on mandour on his Greentrax album called - Flowers of
the Forest. I think i
I think this is the Scots Musical Museum version, located from JC's tune finder
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/tmp/Tune078862.gif
it's in B flat rather than A flat, on which I could have been
mistaken, my copy is in a box of books.
The GHB versions are a) very 'cut down' and b) do not agree with each
Bill omits to say that while we were watching his Selkirk Common
Riding video we were eating Selkirk Bannock. We know how to have a
good time.
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can we sink any lower than this?
Some from the archives, mainly 18th century -
Gallop and Sh•te
Lasses P*sses Brandy (though it probably means 'boozes')
As She P*ss'd, She Padled It
P*ss Upon the Grass
P*ss and Keep the Hair Dry
Somewhere Bruce Olson (RIP) posted a list of rude tune titles,
scat
>This piece seems to have entered our repertoire via Billy Pigg having been
>included among the performances recorded by Foster Charlton and issued on the
>Leader LP 'The Border Minstrel'.
Yes indeed, but I think you'll find that it had previously been taken
up by Jimmy Shand. From there, it's o
Thanks for that Colin
I replied personally to Anthony and we have had a friendly exchange
about titles and metres.
I stick absolutely to my interpretation that these 3 tunes are in 3/4
even though all but one of Vickers' triple-time hornpipes have the 6/8
signature and mixed note groupings, if I
Good examples, John. Everything you mention here I would consider as
syncopation rather than change of metre, or in the case of Risty
Gulley, alternating metre. Maybe this is a too-subtle distinction, but
it's one that I experience. I use syncopation a lot in my own playing,
and for me it works pre
Seeking The Galloway is from Vickers, and Gordon credits the source in
his book. Polwarth did not, IIRC, give sources. Many of the tunes were
from a series of tune articles by Stokoe in the Newcastle Courant,
though I don't know if the SLOPM was one of these.
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If not for the sake of Jemmy, then for the sake of Auld Wull, who is,
from his description in the 'Life of J A', a more suitable candidate
for iconic status.
- Matt Seattle (or Seatle..)
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On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 3:27 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Earliest example of anyone going over the top re plaid I can think
of was Sir Walter Scott who wore trousers of the stuff woven in the
Border mills probably at Linlithgow.
Nice one Colin - like those old Kentucky Hi
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and Sheila wrote (in answer to my):
>> playing a full set of satisfying
>variations is the most fun one can have . . . >>
>
>But for the audience, most frequently, this can seem like the
most
>boring performance of an end
> On 26 Aug 2008, at 10:10, Ormston, Chris wrote:
>
>> Basically, a bunch of influential upper class twits decided
>> that Northumbrian piping needed to be saved
While this may be true, class in itself is not the main issue, which -
imho - is musical incompetence. This is exemplfied by the bodge
I agree with you on that, John, likelier, more characteristic of the
idiom, and more musical. The error is typical (I've probably exceeded
my quota of complaints about NM - I feel its slipshod editing did a
lot of damage - so, enough).
On 9/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
phatically, because even with this extra
> commentary the passage is still meaningless dribble. Say what you mean! Or
> is this whole farrago totally content -free?
> Cheers,
> Robert
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Matt Seattle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
Check with your airline that they will accept it as hand luggage
first, they vary, and my experience has been mixed. It often just
depends on the disposition of the person who checks you in. I have had
my Border pipes (long Savage & Hoy case) in the hold reluctantly but
without damage, but I've hea
On 10/30/08, tim rolls BT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> He's gone o'er long with a stick in his hand
This didn't chime with me. Apart from the poor internal rhyme, the
sense is different from
He's gyen ower land wiv his stick iv his hand
which is how I've heard it sung. There's a version on
http:
I don't know if there is such a thing a
> 'NSP music that would be traditional for a funeral'
but the Scottish Border lament Flow'rs of the Forest has resonance for
many, and there is a recording on Kathryn Tickell's 'Borderlands' if I
recall correctly.
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I am in sympathy with he points expressed above, but I also believe
the matter is a bit more subtle. It's not a question of drone music
versus harmonic music.
Pipe music - the type we're talking about here, not the
fiddle-repertoire-on-pipes type - has, to my senses, a foot in both
camps. To take
Splitting it up into 4 beats, and putting a double line at the barline
||Nuts|and|rais|ins||
To||ma|to|soup|-
I think we are saying, or trying to say, the same thing as Colin's example, i.e.
a-||ONE-two-THREE-and a-||ONE-two-THREE-and
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I didn't understand what AR meant with his tomato, either - if he
meant un unstressed downbeat (to-) then I'm mystified, as Rants have a
stress on the downbeat in my experience. The stress of the word tomato
is on the -ma-, whether you say tomaato or tomayto.
Mason's Apron is Scottish, the earlies
For the Rant rhythm, how about
Nuts-and-Rais-ins
where the heavier stress is on -Rais-
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It would be too obvious say the same about Border pipes, so I'd better not..
On 1/5/09, Chris Ormston wrote:
> I'm told that only recently Tommy Breckons made a similar comment about NSP!
>
> "I am reminded of a article written by Pat McNulty, the Glasgow based
> uilleann piper, reflecting on the
I've also seen it called Reel of Tullochgorum in one of the modern
Taigh na Teud compilations, and just thought it was a mistake, without
knowing the Ian Powrie connection. This is also rather strange in that
Tullochgorum is a completely separate tune with a long history (and is
even
No-one is saying that Jimmy Allan is the same *tune* as Tullocch
Gorum, but that the latter's *title* was applied to the former tune,
and possibly before that tune was called Jimmy Allan.
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Those words were written for the old tune of Tullochgorum (not 'Jimmy
Allan'). The old tune survives in very many written versions, in both
reel and strathspey arrangements. The reel versions are, as far as I
can tell, older. Many reels were converted to strathspeys later, from
the evidence I have
On 1/14/09, Barry Say wrote:
> Are you aware of any historic publication which contains both the
> words and music. The song has eight lines to a verse. I would tend
> to try and fit them to ABB of the tune, because lines 5-8 and 9-12
> contain many similar words, but without working it up I woul
On 1/14/09, Barry Say wrote:
> Personally, I think it would be a good idea if information such as
> you and others have assembled in the notes to GNTB and other
> publications. Could be arranged in a computer readable form
> especially if other researchers could then add to the database as
> scho
Tullochgorum - NOT The reel of T / Jimmy Allan - is in David Young's
'Duke of Perth' ms, 1734. Not only is it the earliest version I
encountered but it is also a 10-strain variation set. So you could say
it went downhill (the blue-green one) from then on.
This and other fascinating information is i
A new article on Maggie Lauder, with sheet music and basic midi
playback, is now online at the LBPS website, thanks to heroic webwork
by Anita Evans. It should be of interest to Uilleann, Northumbrian and
Border pipers as well as fiddlers and others.
http://lbps.net/MaggieLauder/index.html
Hope yo
There's no 'answer' to this because the situation is a muddle. Aurally
transmitted music and written music are in constant interaction, and
an inaccurate written version can be learnt and then passed on aurally
so that it then becomes part of 'the tradition'.
A few examples:
Out of a dozen or so
On 3/11/09, Anthony Robb wrote:
> Apart from NPS publications I can find no other written source for the
> Jimmy Allen version of his name.
I think that's about the size of it Anthony, a simple error which was
copied and became widespread.
Barry Say and others on this list recently expose
On 3/11/09, Anthony Robb wrote:
> ... a cavalier disregard for accuracy.
> I wonder if we can look forward to a correction soon?
In the scheme of things, this is a small matter. The NPS, like any
human construct, is imperfect. But as a body and as individuals I find
much more readiness in t
It's my arrangement for Border pipes of a fiddle composition by
Nathaniel Gow (originally in Bb and with a larger range), and never a
song to my knowledge. I recorded it on Out of the Flames; it has a
personal association for me with Sharon Goodacre, late wife of Julian
Goodacre of Peebles, and no,
No, Philip, they're all whole notes - how can you have half a note?
It's like half a piece of string.
On 3/12/09, Philip Gruar wrote:
> Sorry - I gave a wrong translation! Should have said quaver (eighth-note)
> Minims = Half-note, Crotchet = Quarter-note, Quaver=Eighth-note.
>
> But you knew t
If you read Note 8 in the new edition of Vickers you'll find 13
different spellings of Jack Lattin's name, and some other unrelated
titles which became attached to his tune.
Who cares? Well, I care enough to note them as they are the labels
attached to the versions referred to, but other than that
Good one! And NEARLY fits the Border pipes too.
I use this site
http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html
for abc conversion, don't know if it's better or worse than the other one.
borderdirectors.com
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Cheers Jim, nae bother.
Nathaniel Gow (vastly underrated compared to his Dad) certainly gets
the credit for it; I just tweaked it a bit for my own purposes.
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I refer to Francis Wood's comment in the NPS March Newsletter in his
review of NPS Tunebook 2 Mk III:
"The index demons, having done wicked things to the recent Vickers Tunebook..."
Francis - I use that Index a lot have so far found it accurate. What
wicked things have I missed - or perpetrated?
C
Whether or not this was intended, Anthony Robb's comments on Dick
Hensold's playing style came across to me as condescending at best.
Well, Dick is my mate, and I'll stick up for him! I know him to be
more concerned than most with his articulation, but not in the sense
of focussing on one single 'c
Some strathspeys have 'Rant' in the title also, e.g. Rothiemurchus'
Rant, Carrick's Rant. What's being referred to here is a more
specifically regional use. I've been wondering if some of the
common-time tunes in Peacock (Cuckold, Cut & Dry, Passing By, Jackey
L) pass the soup test, and might be us
>if people
> want to do something genuinely Northumbrian they have a choice of the
> virtuoso Clough/Peacock repertoire (akin to Ceol Mohr for me) or the
> more accessible, but still non-intuitive, Ceol Beag which, for me, is
> the dance music of north Northumberland.
Is there no
On 4/13/09, Ian Lawther wrote:
> ... Session A7 among
> many others.
I think you mean Session A9 Ian. Session A7 is me and Bill Telfer, and we rock.
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> My mistake Matt - but then you too are a kid from Kent (and more precisely
> I think you and Tim Edey are both native to the Planet Thanet)
'Tis true, sir (along with Tracy Emin & Edward Heath), though my genes
are from elsewhere. As are my jeans.
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> Now the stupid question - is there any reason why I shouldn't play
> while pregnant?
Of course. Peacock tunes only, though. It might the last chance to
save the world.
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> I went to that Manitas de Plata concert too!
There's a strange convergence in mentioning Manitas de Plata here.
During his period of fame, which I also remember, he was lionized by
the great and good (e.g. Picasso, Dali), who, I suspect, would have
seen him as a kind of unsophisticated 'product
> As far as I can remember there are quite a few dance tunes in the Peacock
> collection. I'm not able to check how "ranty" they are the moment
I'm thinking specifically of variation sets - Cuckold, Cut & Dry, I
Saw My Love, Jack Lattin (however he's spelt) - which I suspect you
can check from yo
> But are Peacock's tunes, at least the variation sets, dance music, whatever
> their origins?
I agree that this is listening music, John, and of a high order -
which is, let us face it, not the case with most traditional music
played at sessions and in concerts, which is far too often merely
da
A lot of sense in there Barry.
It's easy to forget, if one is struggling with the intricacies of
technique, that a relatively uninformed listener will not actually
give a hoot about closed or open fingering, but *will* respond to
musicality on a macro-level. I have seen in more than one context th
> It is now believed that the worthy gentlemen who formed the majority
> of the NSPS had little contact with the traditional players - an
> analogy with the cricketing world of the time, and possibly other
> areas of endeavour.
> The N. Minstrelsy is another well intentioned effort which needs
On 4/29/09, Anthony Robb wrote:
> Having said that (to paraphrase Cardinal Newman) - "No man would do anything
> if he waited until he could do it so well that someone somewhere would not
> find fault with what he has done."
True, Anthony. I spend a large proportion of my time redoing what I've
d
Another vote in favour - if Colin is willing, obviously
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I am pleased that a new form of words has now been proposed. I could
not have signed the previous motion, as I can neither have nor lack
confidence in a decision which resulted from circumstances and
discussions of which I only have very partial knowledge.
I have no knowledge of Joyce Quin; whatev
On 6/9/09, Di Jevons wrote:
> I do think however there is a danger that 'life and bounce' can be mistaken
> for 'breakneck speed'
Well said, Di. Going further, 'life and bounce' are (imho)
incompatible with 'breakneck speed'. Try, for example, to play a jig
with any kind of lilt AND to play it f
> > > I'm still bashing away at Peacock, and only recently took note of the
> > > metronome settings in the recent edition, some of which are, to me,
> > > stratospherically fast.
I have never taken note of them so can't comment. What I eventually
took note of was the remark of Thomas Bewick qu
in case you didn't spot my mistake
B/c/dgd rather than Bcgd
should read
B/c/dgd rather than Bdgd
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On 6/11/09, anth...@robbpipes.com wrote:
> When asked what the
> third tune was, Robin said he hadn't a clue - he'd forgotten the tune
> he was going to play and set off making a new tune up as he went along.
This has happened on several occasions with Border Directors, as Chris
would te
On 6/10/09, Dave S wrote:
> I,m sure it's online somewhere Francis, but my question is who actually
> learnt these tunes from the tradition --- ie from someone who learnt them
> from someone whose knew someone who learnt from Peacock ? do we have anyone
> -- if so could they please set up a maste
The 40th Newcastleton Traditional Music Festival
[1]http://www.newcastleton.com
takes place 3-5 July. There are piping competitions on the Saturday
afternoon. I've been asked to judge them and to spread the word.
Northumbrian Pipes (all classes) 2.30 pm in the Community Room, this
That's a fine tune from the Scots Musical Museum. I checked for other
versions and found it's also in Oswald (c.1750), 'What shou'd a Lassie
do wi an auld Man'. Different details - no snaps, and in G/Em rather
than D/Bm - but basically the same melody. I'll post the abc but
haven't t
in the region of -L-40--L-50. Dave Faulkner has
agreed to share the tutoring with me if attendance is sufficient. I
hope to be able to offer excellent catering at a reasonable price as an
optional extra. Accommodation is not included and should be arranged by
participants.
To register an int
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Christopher
Gregg <[1]chrisdgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
I am looking for a way to transpose some duet parts from "G" down
to
the key of "F" without having to wrie it all out by hand. Any
suggestions?
Yes. Just read it down one
This thread seems to have been split between the dartmouth and NPS
groups so I'm resending this bit to both. I've since checked SMM and
found that the link ([1]www.gleeman.org) provided by Richard gives an
inaccurate transcription and midi of SMM, which is actually closer to
Oswald t
Below is the SMM version, and I'm pretty sure it's now exactly as in
the book on my lap, except that I have joined the note groups rather
than left them separated as in the vocal score.
There is still the possibility that Robert had a different local
version or a distinct tune; ther
of D and A and only goes
up to f# on the fiddle's top string.
I would ask NSP players to comment on the above from their own
experience.
Matt Seattle
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Gordon Brown <[1]gor...@10db.co.uk>
wrote:
Many thanks to all who replied, I'
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