Greate news (or bad news) that means we have not a windows issue. what
happens when you switch to singelthreaded ?
/adrian
2009/2/1 Simon Loic simon1l...@gmail.com
Hi,
in my case when I am runing osgviewer on a ubuntu distribution with 4 cores
I get 25% of cpu, which means that one of my
Hello all
You should use lispsm or pssm shadow : even for terrain this gives nice
looking shadows (with pssm you can limit the max far distance, use this say
250m, and you will get nice shadows) but once we have the latest idea
implemented, the shadow quality gets much better, this would be of
Did the code help ?
/adrian
2009/1/30 Adrian Egli OpenSceneGraph (3D) 3dh...@gmail.com
Hi Robert, Cory,
I implement some weeks before a memory leak detector for VS 2005 and
cleaned up the code that all of my objects get right removed from memory
now, espacially i had some bad behaviour
No problem for Paris ! :)
The show at Brussels seems interesting too, and it's a center place in
Europe.
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Cedric Pinson morni...@plopbyte.net wrote:
Hi,
I will happy to meet osg users in Europe like the last time in Paris :)
Cheers,
Cedric
Adrian Egli
Hi Cedric,
I did make some changes to CMakeLists.txt to fix build problems under
FreeBSD that related the Xrandr functionality. Could you check the
Cmake variable that have been picked up for X11_Xrandr_LIB, mine
points to .usr/lib/libXrandr.so.
Robert.
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Cedric
Hi Robert,
Thanks for the explanation. Actually I was wondering: If anyone can easily and
freely have 2.6+ without any drawback (which is false, Cedric told me), why
should users stay to 2.4?. This is why I asked.
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine -
Hi Robert, STOP
Experimental build launched on rev. 9622 (trunk) STOP
Using VC8sp1 STOP
See results on dashboard when available (Machine's name is SUKENDER1) STOP
Should be finished in... err... when it's done! :)
STOP
Sukender STOP
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine -
Robert Osfield wrote:
Hi Sukender,
I apply a pain vs gain to this type of decision. How much pain is it
to maintain 2.4.x support vs how much pain it would be to those who'd
have to upgrade, and also against how much we have to gain in
streamlining our own maintenance work. Right now for
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com wrote:
I will now go across the machines I have and test out the build with a
fresh checkout. I'll also do testing on an OSX box that I can
remotely log into - I'll test just the CMake/Makefile build though,
won't be able
Hi J-S
i am working with NVidia GPU, and i have same behaviour. So there should be
another problem than the busy wait. Of course can VSync give some problem in
performance or at least we get a smaller FPS displayed. But here we have
some strang behavior of our osgViewer (renderer). My there is a
Hi Morne,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Morné Pistorius
mpistorius@googlemail.com wrote:
I successfully built the current trunk on Windows, VS8. Attached are
more warnings if you are interested (about 71), they look to be mostly
benign.
Thanks, I'll do a review of the warnings and look
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 15:01 +, Robert Osfield wrote:
Hi All,
I've now finished all the merges/bug/features fixes that is required
for OpenSceneGraph-2.8 branch. I had to do a few more changes since
2.7.9 than I would have liked due to resolve usage problems associated
with the
Hi Davide,
You'll need to be a lot more specific about the tests and results you
are getting for others to be able to help dig any deeper into the
issue.
Items like testing in debug mode is something that can sometime throw
people - debug builds are far far slower, much more than one might
Hi Robert,
thanks for the quick answer.
What I feel strange is the different behavior that the standard osgviewer
class has on OSX and Win32. I mean, if the reason is the vsync, in win32 it
is ignored or handled differently (maybe by the graphics board driver or by
the OS itself). The main
Hi all,
Here everything build fines under WinXP, VS8 SP1.
But I have a little question, when I call :
osviewer.exe --window 100 100 800 600 cow.osg
Then I try to display the stats, nothing appears before several hits on the
s button, and I just see some parts of the stats, is it normal ?
On
I'm running locally now and am seeing the same behavior. Running with
--SingleThreaded makes no difference.
Cory
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Adrian Egli OpenSceneGraph (3D)
3dh...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi J-S
i am working with NVidia GPU, and i have same behaviour. So there should be
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 17:20 +0100, Sukender wrote:
Hi Jeremy, hi Robert,
Robert: Dashboard updated.
Jeremy: What kind of machine do you have??? It seems to take ages to compile
on my computer (Core2Duo 2.5Ghz)! Or maybe you've compiled just before and
there was few to recompile...
I have
Hi Jeremy,
Could you please capture the warnings you are getting now. They are
almost certainly be the same set as the original warnings you sent as
I have fixed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of warnings, having
spent well over a week of my life dedicated to just aggressive
warnings level.
Hi Sukender,
Alright... Strange thing it took 40 minutes on my machine (which is faster than
your laptop, and I had a few *.cpp already compiled). Or maybe you disable
compiling wrappers, examples, applications, plugins or such (I do compile them
all)?
If you don't use the wrappers,
Hi J-S,
Hem... I *do* use osgGA wrapper... And yes, I saw they cost much in compile
time. :)
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/
Le Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:36:49 +0100, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com a écrit:
Hi Sukender,
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 17:44 +0100, Sukender wrote:
Hi J-S,
Hem... I *do* use osgGA wrapper... And yes, I saw they cost much in compile
time. :)
Yeah, I don't compile the introspection stuff because it makes it take
about 40 minutes here, too.
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform
Hi John,
It sounds like you have gen lock that locks the swap buffers of the
graphics cards, but you don't have a swap ready implemented for your
cluster. Swap ready is a synchronization prior to the dispatch of the
call to swap buffers, this sync prevents an application from advancing
to the
Hi Serge,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Ack... two steps forward, one step back... Looks like a bug fix for
another stats rendering problem broke this particular combination. I
see the problem under Linux as well so can chase it up personally.
Thanks Robert, I'll only be able to test tomorrow morning but i'll let you
know.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Serge,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ack... two steps forward, one step back...
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 16:23 +, Robert Osfield wrote:
Hi Jeremy,
Could you please capture the warnings you are getting now. They are
almost certainly be the same set as the original warnings you sent as
I have fixed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of warnings, having
spent well over
HI Jeremy,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote:
The only MAJOR one I'm getting anymore is this:
In copy constructor
'osgViewer::InteractiveImageHandler::InteractiveImageHandler(const
osgViewer::InteractiveImageHandler, const osg::CopyOp)':
Hi John,
Ar this is slow progress... fix one, break the other...
So the resolution of this problem now looks to be telling CMake about
the directory that the lib is in, I don't know off hand what the CMake
scheme for this is, but should be able to hunt it down.
Robert.
On Mon, Feb 2,
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 17:32 +, Robert Osfield wrote:
HI Jeremy,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote:
The only MAJOR one I'm getting anymore is this:
In copy constructor
'osgViewer::InteractiveImageHandler::InteractiveImageHandler(const
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Robert Osfield wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Robert Osfield
robert.osfi...@gmail.com wrote:
I will now go across the machines I have and test out the build
with a fresh checkout. I'll also do testing on an OSX box that I
can remotely
Hi Jeremy,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote:
The warning remains with the latest revision; osg::Object must also be
initialized for this warning to go away. Why this is the case, I do not
know.
This class doesn't directly inherit from osg::Object, I
Robert,
The INCLUDE_DIRECTORIES() line didn't fix the error. It added
-I/usr/local/lib to the command lines used to compile the cpp files,
but didn't add the requried -L/usr/local/lib.
Looking at the output of grep Xrandr CMakeCache.txt, I see the
following:
Hi John,
I'm a bit surpised it didn't work, similar code elsewhere in the OSG
works for other libs, so I can only guess the that directory env var
for XRANDR isn't being set.
To try a fix it I've changed the code to be:
IF (X11_Xrandr_LIB)
SET(LIB_EXTRA_LIBS
Hi Peter,
You should provide more information to help resolving your issue. What is the
kind of problems you encounter?
However, I think this may only be a classic depth buffer problem. You could use
setComputeNearFarMode() once and then deactivate the computation to lock the
near plane. But
Hi Sukender (et. al)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote:
Robert: Dashboard updated.
Jeremy: What kind of machine do you have??? It seems to take ages to compile
on my computer (Core2Duo 2.5Ghz)! Or maybe you've compiled just before and
there was few to
Hi All,
Thanks for the all the testing, a few more bugs and warnings have been
fleshed and should be now resolved, alas this has taken me pretty well
all the day, so it's now too late for me to go create the
OpenSceneGraph-2.8 today. What I'll do is leave svn/trunk to be
tested over night and in
BTW, I noticed the nightly build is set to 00:00 CET (= GMT+1 = 23:00 or
11:00PM GMT), in CTestConfig.cmake. Is there a reason for this to be not GMT (I
mean this is what I expected, so maybe others may think the same)?
PS: Yes, I like answering to myself... :)
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight
Hi Robert,
Once 2.8.0-rc1 is done, it'll be time to even more build and runtime
testing, and for those planning to help out with packaging to start
creating packaging for the rc1.
Sooo... What are you planning as an upload area for packages? :-) You
said we'd put them into SVN, but do you
Hi Robert,
Second experimental build launched. (SUKENDER1 2009-02-02 on the dashboard, rev
9631, VC8sp1, all inclusive).
Maybe you'll have the result before going to sleep (= To all: this is a
joke... Robert NEVER sleeps! :D Even kill_and_go_to_bed -9 can't get rid of
him!!!)
Sukender
PVLE -
+1 :)
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/
Le Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:51:05 +0100, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com a écrit:
Hi Robert,
Once 2.8.0-rc1 is done, it'll be time to even more build and runtime
testing, and for
Hi Cedric,
Which version of Cmake are you using?
Here's my equivalent of your grep of CMaekCache.txt. Note the entry
for X11_Xrandr_LIB.
Perhaps change src/osgViewer/CMakeLists.txt from using X11_Xrandr_LIB
to XRANDR_LIBRARIES would be appropriate.
Robert.
grep -i xran CMakeCache.txt
//Set
Hi Morne,
I wonder if the osgShadow technique was trying to use a Pbuffer to
implement the render to texture, this isn't supportable when using
GraphicsWindowEmbedded. However, a crash shouldn't ensue, rather
there should be a fallback to use frame buffer for RTT.
BTW, does your OpenGL diriver
Hi Cedric,
(I always wrote C*é*dric... which one is correct?)
Ah, okay. I guessed it was something like that :)
Maybe then we could drop CMake 2.4 once 2.6 is stable on most/all platforms?
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/
Le Mon, 02 Feb
Hi Robert,
thanks for the quick answer.
What I feel strange is the different behavior that the standard osgviewer
class has on OSX and Win32. I mean, if the reason is the vsync, in win32 it
is ignored or handled differently (maybe by the graphics board driver or by
the OS itself). The main
Hi Peter,
You may need to disable the compute of the near far and just manage
the near/far of the projection matrix yourself. The other alternative
is to provide your own
osg::CullSettings::ClampProjectionMatrixCallback.
To disable the compute of the near far you reset the value of the
master
HI Davide,
In what way is this a problem? It's quite normal for a viewer to wait
on barriers, as when you have vsync on the graphics thread will be
gated by the refresh of the monitor, with the OpenGL driver just
putting the calling thread to sleep while it waits for the next frame.
If you
Robert Osfield wrote:
I've now finished all the merges/bug/features fixes that is required
for OpenSceneGraph-2.8 branch. I had to do a few more changes since
2.7.9 than I would have liked due to resolve usage problems associated
with the osg::TransferFunction1D class. TransferFunction1D has
Hi All,
I've now finished all the merges/bug/features fixes that is required
for OpenSceneGraph-2.8 branch. I had to do a few more changes since
2.7.9 than I would have liked due to resolve usage problems associated
with the osg::TransferFunction1D class. TransferFunction1D has had to
be
I have a problem with 2 independent view windows getting out of sync in a
multi-channel system. Bear with me while I explain the configuration.
My current test system is one machine with 2 nVidia Quadro FX 4600 graphics
cards. These cards are genlocked with the GSync2 option card. Each video
Hi Robert, hi Cédric,
Please don't take offense of this question, but why don't we simply drop the
support for older versions of CMake? As far as I know, 2.6 introduced many
improvements. Are there platforms where 2.6+ isn't available? Or is there
something I don't know (which may be the most
Quick note: build is done, but most warnings are wrappers-related (and seem
harmless).
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/
Le Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:54:34 +0100, Sukender suky0...@free.fr a écrit:
Hi Robert,
Second experimental build launched.
Hi Serge,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Serge Lages serge.la...@gmail.com wrote:
Here is a screenshot fo my bug.
Ack... two steps forward, one step back... Looks like a bug fix for
another stats rendering problem broke this particular combination. I
see the problem under Linux as well so
Hi Sukender,
just because cmake 2.6 is not tagged stable yet on my distribution.
[I] dev-util/cmake
Available versions: 2.4.6-r1 (~)2.4.7-r1 2.4.8 ~2.6.2 ~2.6.2-r1
{emacs qt4 vim-syntax}
Installed versions: 2.4.8(13:57:21 02/01/09)(emacs -vim-syntax)
Homepage:
Hi,
Yes now it compiles fine.
Thank you
Cheers,
Cedric
Robert Osfield wrote:
Hi Cedric,
Does osgViewer now compile if you enable Xrandr?
Robert.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cedric Pinson morni...@plopbyte.net wrote:
Hi Robert,
here the grep with the new cmakelist.txt. I did a
Hi all,
At are company we are using huge terrains and have problem with the near
plane
for our character walking around on the ground.
we use the setComputeNearFarMode to COMPUTE_NEAR_FAR_USING_BOUNDING_VOLUMES
if we turn it off and set a hardcoded value then this solves the problem for
the
Le Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:46:51 +0100, Sukender suky0...@free.fr a écrit:
Hi all,
I got an tiny idea... I suggest that people building OSG with dashboard
reports (Nightly, Continuous, Experimental), use a site name that includes
their name on osg-users list (such as blah blah blah - my OSG
Hi Sukender,
I apply a pain vs gain to this type of decision. How much pain is it
to maintain 2.4.x support vs how much pain it would be to those who'd
have to upgrade, and also against how much we have to gain in
streamlining our own maintenance work. Right now for Cmake 2.4.x it
doesn't seem
Hi Cedric,
Does osgViewer now compile if you enable Xrandr?
Robert.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Cedric Pinson morni...@plopbyte.net wrote:
Hi Robert,
here the grep with the new cmakelist.txt. I did a resetup
*morni...@macmornifle ~/dev/osg-trunk/build $ grep -i xran CMakeCache.txt
Robert,
This latest CMakeLists.txt file works on my machine.
-john
-Original Message-
From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org
[mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Robert
Osfield
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:01 PM
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Robert,
I haven't read all the messages on the other thread with Cedric, but I
tried this new CMakeLists.txt and it fails like the original one:
Linking CXX shared library ../../lib/libosgViewer.so
cd /home/jshue/working-OSG/OpenSceneGraph/src/osgViewer
/usr/local/bin/cmake -E cmake_link_script
Hi guys,
Just one more data point: a colleague of mine tested our OSG app in
linux last week and also found one of the cores (on his 8 core
machine) utilising 100% cpu. After some investigation, this turned
out to a call to schedyield on the thread in the gl driver. Posibly
you are seeing
Hi to everybody,
I'm having a problem under OSX with the osgviewer implementation.
The application is using only 5 to 10% of the processor power, because the
most part of the time it is waiting on a mutex inside the
osgViewer::ViewerBase::renderingTraversals() call.
Exactly the same code (I'm
Hi Davide,
You don't need to dig deep into the internals of the OSG. The
differences are likely high level, non OSG specific.
Could please start by specifying how you are doing your tests, what
framerates your are getting on each platform, what specific value is
making your conclude the
Alright... Strange thing it took 40 minutes on my machine (which is faster than
your laptop, and I had a few *.cpp already compiled). Or maybe you disable
compiling wrappers, examples, applications, plugins or such (I do compile them
all)?
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine
Hi Robert,
I tried but failed to reproduce the problem in the osg examples. It
must be some subtle difference in the way I set up my scene in my app.
I changed my viewer to the QOSGWidget implementation instead of using
the GraphicsWindowEmbedded in a QGLWidget and that fixed the crash.
Sorry I
On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 17:32 +, Robert Osfield wrote:
HI Jeremy,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Jeremy Moles jer...@emperorlinux.com wrote:
The only MAJOR one I'm getting anymore is this:
In copy constructor
'osgViewer::InteractiveImageHandler::InteractiveImageHandler(const
Hi Robert,
It's a bit strange because it detects xrandr and set the flag ON, but
does not detect libs, see the output:
*morni...@macmornifle ~/dev/osg-trunk/build $ cmake ../
-DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release
*-- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/gcc
-- Check for working C compiler:
Hi Cory,
I'll have to defer to others on the situation under Windows when doing
remote desktop. My guess is that it's likely to be a driver issue.
Well, using Remote Desktop adds a variable into the mix for sure, so
eliminating this and running the app locally would eliminate one
possible
Hi John,
Could you try the attached src/osgViewer/CMakeLists.txt. This adds a :
INCLUDE_DIRECTORIES(${XRANDR_LIBDIR})
Robert.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Shue, John A john.s...@mantech.com wrote:
Robert,
I haven't read all the messages on the other thread with Cedric, but
Hi all,
I got an tiny idea... I suggest that people building OSG with dashboard reports
(Nightly, Continuous, Experimental), use a site name that includes their name
on osg-users list (such as blah blah blah - my OSG name), so that it would be
easier for Robert (and maybe others) to identify
Hi Adrian,
Even with --SingleThreaded option one core is used at 100%.
Tell me if I should do other tests.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Adrian Egli OpenSceneGraph (3D)
3dh...@gmail.com wrote:
Greate news (or bad news) that means we have not a windows issue. what
happens when you switch to
Hi Robert,
In tests with my app I found some curious behaviour with the
QOSGWidget (non-GraphicsWindowEmbedded) implementation.
Since moving from the GLWidget approach to this, the throwing
functionality of the TrackballManipulator disappeared. This is also
visible in the osgViewerQt
Hi Robert,
I successfully built the current trunk on Windows, VS8. Attached are
more warnings if you are interested (about 71), they look to be mostly
benign.
In tests with my app I found some curious behaviour with the
QOSGWidget (non-GraphicsWindowEmbedded) implementation.
Since moving from
I need to build collada plugin for Mac OS X (10.5) but I didn't manage to
build it.
Actually I did not understand which version of Collada DOM must be used
with which OSG's version.
In my last try (OSG 2.7.8 + Collada DOM 2.2) I had an error concerning
BOOST...it looks like that many collada
Hi Robert,
here the grep with the new cmakelist.txt. I did a resetup
*morni...@macmornifle ~/dev/osg-trunk/build $ grep -i xran CMakeCache.txt
*//Set to ON to enable Xrandr support for GraphicsWindowX11.
OSGVIEWER_USE_XRANDR:BOOL=ON
Xrandr_LINK_TYPE:STATIC=optimized
Hi Jeremy, hi Robert,
Robert: Dashboard updated.
Jeremy: What kind of machine do you have??? It seems to take ages to compile on
my computer (Core2Duo 2.5Ghz)! Or maybe you've compiled just before and there
was few to recompile...
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine -
Hi Robert,
I use cmake version 2.4-patch 8
Cheers,
Cedric
Robert Osfield wrote:
Hi Cedric,
Which version of Cmake are you using?
Here's my equivalent of your grep of CMaekCache.txt. Note the entry
for X11_Xrandr_LIB.
Perhaps change src/osgViewer/CMakeLists.txt from using X11_Xrandr_LIB
to
Hi Cedric,
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Cedric Pinson morni...@plopbyte.net wrote:
I use cmake version 2.4-patch 8
OK, this is probably why there is deviation in the CMake generated env
vars. I've just tweaked the relevant src/osgViewer/CMakeLists.txt
part:
#SET(LIB_EXTRA_LIBS
Hi John,
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Shue, John A john.s...@mantech.com wrote:
That did the trick. Compiled all the way to the end of the build without
errors.
Turns out that this fix that works for you and me using CMake 2.6.x,
breaks the build with Cmake 2.4.8 so we'll need to try out
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Paul Melis p...@science.uva.nl wrote:
Robert Osfield wrote:
Hi Sukender,
I apply a pain vs gain to this type of decision. How much pain is it
to maintain 2.4.x support vs how much pain it would be to those who'd
have to upgrade, and also against how much
Hi Davide,
Quoting Davide Bacchet davide.bacc...@gmail.com:
is ignored or handled differently (maybe by the graphics board driver or by
the OS itself). The main consequence is that the same application runs 15-20
times slower on OSX, and I cannot use the same code across the platforms.
...
--
How can i get the staeset of the model i have lodeaded to the
openScenegraph
I am loading an iv file which has the state set attribute in it i need the
current state set attribute does any one know...
I am using getStateset but its returning null.
Always
Keep
Hi Robert,
On Monday 02 February 2009 16:01, Robert Osfield wrote:
I will now go across the machines I have and test out the build with a
fresh checkout. I'll also do testing on an OSX box that I can
remotely log into - I'll test just the CMake/Makefile build though,
won't be able to test
Cedric,
Thanks for taking the time to look into this. I did have a
revelation a few days ago that lead me to the same conclusion.
Basically I had to go back and assign vertices to the named vgroups.
not a big deal once I figured it out I was just going crazy thinking I
was doing something
-- Hi,
I am loading an iv file in Osg i need to know the StateSet of the particular
node i pick in the iv file loaded on
to the osg iv file has its Attributes in itthat is applied to the mode i
need the information from it
I am getting the picked node information and in turn i
need to know the
Just for the record: I've had several segfaults in OSG's
particle code (threading related) since I updated a few
days ago. I'll post a backtrace when I run into it again.
m.
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