Re: Humanwear Victor Reader Stream Trek

[Mary Otten]

VoiceCommands as an adjunct to an existing device could be good, although I 
really can’t imagine using one out in public with GPS or or on a bus or 
whatever. That’s why say it should be an adjunct if they did it. But doesn’t 
the stream run on Linux? My guess is there aren’t any APIs that would let them 
use, for instants, Alexa. For my money, with the exception of doing things on 
the actual device, his voice assistance are vastly overrated. More often than 
not, you get something that makes you look on the web for what they found, or 
you get a non-response. We are definitely not in the Star Trek days, so the 
fact that human where hasn’t come out with something actually like a home or an 
echo makes perfect sense to me. If they just came out with one of the speaker 
things, nobody would buy it. Why would you want to buy a specialized speaker 
made by humanware, when the mainstream ones are after all voice activated. What 
possible value add it could there be? That’s why I say having some kind of 
voice deal that would actually let you use your device with voice under the 
right circumstances could be good.

Mary

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 8, 2017, at 9:05 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> So another new product from humanware but again I think they're missing so 
> many points as Humanware tend to do these days in my opinion.
> 
> Yeah okay, we know about Talking Book players and we've used them for years.
> 
> Yeah, we know about GPS navigation products and we use iPhones and other 
> similar devices.
> 
> So it does surprise me that Humanware hasn't brought out a voice activated 
> device like the Google Home or Amazon Echo that does all this sort of stuff.
> 
> Anyway here's the new device from our dear friends at Humanware so make what 
> you will of this.
> 
> http://store.humanware.com/heu/victor-reader-trek-talking-book-player-gps.html
> 
> -- 
> 
> **
> "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life"
> **
> 
> 

Re: Humanwear Victor Reader Stream Trek

[Mary Otten]

I do not think so. They don’t mention it when they reference bluetooth. Best to 
ask to be sure.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2017, at 4:46 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Yes but does it support the aptx format.
> I don’t want to spend another bunch of money for a device and be disappointed 
> again.
> My second gen stream is still alive and kicking but very often crashes even 
> though its been on repair and have been reset a bunch of times.
> I rather use a stable android phone or Iphone for these purposes if the trek 
> shows similar tendences.
> /A
> 
>> 9 nov. 2017 kl. 13:37 skrev JOHN RIEHL :
>> 
>> The victor Trekker does have Bluetooth capability. 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Anders 
>> Holmberg
>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:29 AM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Humanwear Victor Reader Stream Trek
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I wonder if the trek has bluetooth with aptx.
>> I don’t think so.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 9 nov. 2017 kl. 06:05 skrev Dane Trethowan :
>>> 
>>> So another new product from humanware but again I think they're missing so 
>>> many points as Humanware tend to do these days in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> Yeah okay, we know about Talking Book players and we've used them for years.
>>> 
>>> Yeah, we know about GPS navigation products and we use iPhones and other 
>>> similar devices.
>>> 
>>> So it does surprise me that Humanware hasn't brought out a voice activated 
>>> device like the Google Home or Amazon Echo that does all this sort of stuff.
>>> 
>>> Anyway here's the new device from our dear friends at Humanware so make 
>>> what you will of this.
>>> 
>>> http://store.humanware.com/heu/victor-reader-trek-talking-book-player-gps.html
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> **
>>> "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life"
>>> **
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Good PC speakers

[Mary Otten]

Hi folks,
I am going to have to purchase a new PC. I have some rather old speakers on my 
very old PC, and I’m going to get rid of them. There about half shot anyway. So 
I wonder what folks are using on PCs these days that actually sounds good. I’m 
talking to a custom builder, and he was talking about just the sort of speakers 
that would plug into a line out Jack. I have a pair of b and w MM ones on my 
Mac, those are USB. And I’ve had them for a few years. They are very nice, but 
I’m not sure I need something like that on a PC where I probably won’t listen 
to boatloads of excellent music. Still, regular cheap computer speakers are 
really not what I’m looking for. Any suggestions?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote

[Mary Otten]

Downloaded software and games. I don't believe that stores recordings.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 5:46 PM, Johnny Angel <j...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> So why would one expand the memory on one of these fire boxes? Is it
> primarily to store recordings?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Gary
> Schindler
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 6:16 AM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Subject: Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
> 
> The only advantage with the fire tv box is that it has a faster processor
> and you can expand the memory with a micro SD card. No extras for blind
> people!
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Johnny Angel
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 9:30 AM
> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
> 
> Hi again Mary,
> 
> Do you know anything about the Amazon fire tv box that sells for like $90?
> I'm going to do some more research on the box, It offers more than the fire
> stick like being able to expand the memory to I think 128 gb. I think it is
> also 4K ready, whereas the fire stick is limited to 1 gb of memory and is
> only capable of 1K programming. But it is like $50 more than the stick, and
> I don't know if it yields the same joy as the stick does for a blind user.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone on the list has an Amazon fire tv box, please chime in
> here to let me and others know if getting the fire box instead of the fire
> stick offers advantages useful for a blind individual.
> 
> Thanks so much,
> 
> John Chilelli
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 2:55 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Subject: Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
> 
> The screen reader comes on the fire. When you first get it, it will download
> a better voice than the one that originally starts up. There are
> instructions how to get it going from the get go on Amazon. I don't have the
> link right here, but if somebody doesn't come up with it, I will see if I
> can find it. Also, make sure that once you get your fire up and running,
> that you make sure the software is up-to-date. So you want to check for
> updates of course. You don't really need the iPad mini for this. You just
> need to have a place to plug the Kindle fire stick directly into the TV.
> That would be an HDMI port available. And of course you have to be able to
> switch to that HDMI port so you can see the screen and hear what's going on,
> including the screenreaer. So really, the iPad mini has no role to play
> here.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Johnny Angel <j...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Mary,
>> 
>> Yah I just want to be able to access menus and movie category and 
>> individual movies. So, in addition to my I-pad mini and HTMI cable to 
>> connect to my dumb TV, I need two other items to get, right? The TV 
>> fire stick and the Voice View screen reader. And I take it that Amazon
> sells everything I need?
>> 
>> I'll check it all out and let you know how things are going.
>> 
>> Thanks again,
>> 
>> John Chilelli
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Mary Otten
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:09 AM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> Subject: RE: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> Yes, with the fire tv stick, you can access netflix and see categories 
>> of movies, go through lists etc. When I first got the tv stick, sign 
>> in was not accessible. Now it is, according to other blind people; 
>> since I got sighted help for my initial sign in, I haven't had to do 
>> that again, so I can personally verify it. My set up is wifi. I 
>> honestly don't remember how difficult it was to do that sign in, 
>> because it was several months ago, and I've gone through a lot of 
>> stuff in my personal life since then. Now the fire stick has alexa as 
>> well as the voiceview screen reader. I don't use the alexa much, but 
>> it is there. I also can't speak to Pandora accessibility, since I 
>> don't
> use that service.
>> But netflix is good, better than on the apple tv, because it is better 
>> at announcing the category or row of movie listings you are in.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote

[Mary Otten]

I agree with Gary. As a blind person, I see no reason to pay more. If you have 
sighted people in your house of course, there are advantages as he pointed out. 
Amazon prime day is coming up. I don't know what country you are in. But if you 
are one that gets that primed day thing, you might wait and see what specials 
they will be having, especially if you're interested in the Fire TV. They 
always seem to discount their own products fairly heavily.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 6:15 AM, Gary Schindler <garys5...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> The only advantage with the fire tv box is that it has a faster processor and 
> you can expand the memory with a micro SD card. No extras for blind people!
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Johnny Angel
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 9:30 AM
> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
> 
> Hi again Mary,
> 
> Do you know anything about the Amazon fire tv box that sells for like $90?
> I'm going to do some more research on the box, It offers more than the fire
> stick like being able to expand the memory to I think 128 gb. I think it is
> also 4K ready, whereas the fire stick is limited to 1 gb of memory and is
> only capable of 1K programming. But it is like $50 more than the stick, and
> I don't know if it yields the same joy as the stick does for a blind user.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone on the list has an Amazon fire tv box, please chime in
> here to let me and others know if getting the fire box instead of the fire
> stick offers advantages useful for a blind individual.
> 
> Thanks so much,
> 
> John Chilelli
> 
> -----Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 2:55 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Subject: Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
> 
> The screen reader comes on the fire. When you first get it, it will download
> a better voice than the one that originally starts up. There are
> instructions how to get it going from the get go on Amazon. I don't have the
> link right here, but if somebody doesn't come up with it, I will see if I
> can find it. Also, make sure that once you get your fire up and running,
> that you make sure the software is up-to-date. So you want to check for
> updates of course. You don't really need the iPad mini for this. You just
> need to have a place to plug the Kindle fire stick directly into the TV.
> That would be an HDMI port available. And of course you have to be able to
> switch to that HDMI port so you can see the screen and hear what's going on,
> including the screenreaer. So really, the iPad mini has no role to play
> here.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Johnny Angel <j...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Mary,
>> 
>> Yah I just want to be able to access menus and movie category and
>> individual movies. So, in addition to my I-pad mini and HTMI cable to
>> connect to my dumb TV, I need two other items to get, right? The TV
>> fire stick and the Voice View screen reader. And I take it that Amazon
> sells everything I need?
>> 
>> I'll check it all out and let you know how things are going.
>> 
>> Thanks again,
>> 
>> John Chilelli
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of
>> Mary Otten
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:09 AM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> Subject: RE: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> Yes, with the fire tv stick, you can access netflix and see categories
>> of movies, go through lists etc. When I first got the tv stick, sign
>> in was not accessible. Now it is, according to other blind people;
>> since I got sighted help for my initial sign in, I haven't had to do
>> that again, so I can personally verify it. My set up is wifi. I
>> honestly don't remember how difficult it was to do that sign in,
>> because it was several months ago, and I've gone through a lot of
>> stuff in my personal life since then. Now the fire stick has alexa as
>> well as the voiceview screen reader. I don't use the alexa much, but
>> it is there. I also can't speak to Pandora accessibility, since I don't
> use that service.
>> But netflix is good, better than on the apple tv, because it is better
>> at announcing the category or row of movie listings you are in.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote

[Mary Otten]

The screen reader comes on the fire. When you first get it, it will download a 
better voice than the one that originally starts up. There are instructions how 
to get it going from the get go on Amazon. I don't have the link right here, 
but if somebody doesn't come up with it, I will see if I can find it. Also, 
make sure that once you get your fire up and running, that you make sure the 
software is up-to-date. So you want to check for updates of course. You don't 
really need the iPad mini for this. You just need to have a place to plug the 
Kindle fire stick directly into the TV. That would be an HDMI port available. 
And of course you have to be able to switch to that HDMI port so you can see 
the screen and hear what's going on, including the screenreaer. So really, the 
iPad mini has no role to play here.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 5:35 PM, Johnny Angel <j...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mary,
> 
> Yah I just want to be able to access menus and movie category and individual
> movies. So, in addition to my I-pad mini and HTMI cable to connect to my
> dumb TV, I need two other items to get, right? The TV fire stick and the
> Voice View screen reader. And I take it that Amazon sells everything I need?
> 
> I'll check it all out and let you know how things are going.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> John Chilelli
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 8:09 AM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Subject: RE: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Yes, with the fire tv stick, you can access netflix and see categories of
> movies, go through lists etc. When I first got the tv stick, sign in was not
> accessible. Now it is, according to other blind people; since I got sighted
> help for my initial sign in, I haven't had to do that again, so I can
> personally verify it. My set up is wifi. I honestly don't remember how
> difficult it was to do that sign in, because it was several months ago, and
> I've gone through a lot of stuff in my personal life since then. Now the
> fire stick has alexa as well as the voiceview screen reader. I don't use the
> alexa much, but it is there. I also can't speak to Pandora accessibility,
> since I don't use that service.
> But netflix is good, better than on the apple tv, because it is better at
> announcing the category or row of movie listings you are in.
> 
> Mary
> 
> 
> 

RE: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,

Yes, with the fire tv stick, you can access netflix and see categories
of movies, go through lists etc. When I first got the tv stick, sign in
was not accessible. Now it is, according to other blind people; since I
got sighted help for my initial sign in, I haven't had to do that
again, so I can personally verify it. My set up is wifi. I honestly
don't remember how difficult it was to do that sign in, because it was
several months ago, and I've gone through a lot of stuff in my personal
life since then. Now the fire stick has alexa as well as the voiceview
screen reader. I don't use the alexa much, but it is there. I also
can't speak to Pandora accessibility, since I don't use that service.
But netflix is good, better than on the apple tv, because it is better
at announcing the category or row of movie listings you are in.

Mary

Re: looking for laptop info

[Mary Otten]

I couldn't agree more with John's note. I haven't been laptop shopping in a 
long time. The laptops I have seen, definitely including the latest MacBook, 
are horrible in terms of their keyboards. Keys run together. Little key travel. 
Absence up to alt and to control keys. No spacing across function keys, unless 
you have the MacBook Pro which has that stupid Touch Bar. I don't know what's 
out there for PC. But I sure wouldn't buy any laptop unless I could lay hands 
on it first. There's just too many bad ones out there that are a pain to use. 
All in the name of shrinking size and thickness and the ever present 
touchscreen.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 2:10 PM, JOHN RIEHL  wrote:
> 
> Hi. One critical thing about laptops for me is the keyboard -- spacing, 
> position of function keys, whether there are two controls and two alt keys, 
> etc. So I'd try to get to a local Best Buy to check them out. I would 
> definitely go for a solid state drive. I have a SSD on my home computer and 
> love it. It's so much faster than the older style drives. I wish my work 
> computer had SSDs!!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of emma Maher
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 3:57 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: looking for laptop info
> 
> It really depends what you want to do with your computer. If you do
> more specialised things like making music or need It for a specific
> purpose, then a off the shelf laptop would suit your needs just fine.
> Again, depends what your needs are in turms If you want a laptop, If
> you want to adjust something like making the fans quieter or do you
> want more then one hard drive. If you want adjustments, then custom
> built could be a better option. I would say that Dell is your best
> bet. But Lenovo or HP could also work fine. Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards
> 
>> On 6/14/17, Tammy Freitag  wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am interested in opinions about laptops.  I want to purchase a new
>> laptop and want to hear the opinions of others.  Here are my
>> questions:
>> 1.  Since I use Jaws which brand of computer would you recommend?
>> 2.  Would custom built be better than off the shelf?
>> 3.  What would be some of the things to check on when comparing computers?
>> 4.  Is solid state drives still the best?
>> Thanks so much!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Independence is yours .  Are you willing to reach for it?
>> Tammy
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> God bless you in abundance.
> 
> 

Re: Fire TV Stick with Voice Remote

[Mary Otten]

I did not read the access world review, and only fairly recently got the fire 
TV stick. But it works fine, although some apps are not accessible. All of the 
Amazon stuff is accessible. Netflix is accessible. You can adjust the voice 
speed and the volume. So I'm not sure what you might be looking for 
specifically in terms of accessibility questions.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 5, 2017, at 12:48 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Does anyone on list own one of these devices? If so then how are you finding 
> it.
> 
> I read a review of the device in an issue of Access World last year, I know 
> someone who just bought one and thus was curious to know if any further 
> progress had been made with subsequent updates of the Amazon Fire firware, 
> the VoiceView Screen Reader, the Voice Remote Controller etc.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> **
> "Live each day as if you were goiing to die tomorrow, learn each day as if 
> you were going to live forever"
> 
> 

Re: Amazon Echo Alexa

[Mary Otten]

Ok, thanks. I have a ue megaboom, and a Oontse probably spelled wrong,
from Cambridge sound works. The megaboom is a lot more expensive at
retail, of course, and I like the sound, especially outside. I wasn't
at all interested in the Tap until this update came out. That seems to
make it much more useful. But I suppose, given that I have other
choices, it will be tough to justify the purchase of yet another
portable speaker.

Mary

Re: Amazon Echo Alexa

[Mary Otten]

If you have an echo, how would you compare the sound of the tap to the sound of 
the echo? If you have heard the Bose mini, how about that one. Or the mini boom 
I think they called it from ultimate ears. Or maybe it was just the boom. So 
not getting up into the B category, more along the lines of speakers that are 
closer in price. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 7:09 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> I should also add that - if you're after a Bluetooth Speaker - then I reckon 
> that the Echo Tap is very good value for money indeed and to think that you 
> can use the Tap on the Echo eco system makes it even more value for money.
> 
> Sure! its not the best sounding portable Bluetooth spekaer around - my B 
> would thrash the Tap - but for the size? Well its a roll of surprise, perhaps 
> that's the best way to describe it.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13/02/2017 1:52 PM, Tom Kaufman wrote:
>> Dane:  Don't know if you've had a chance to play with those buttons on the 
>> top of the tap or not, so you may have figured them out: the button nearest 
>> to you (going from front to back) is the volume down; moving toward the back 
>> (now this is if you're in the center of the device) is the play/pause 
>> button; the button furtherest from you is the volume up button.  The button 
>> at the extreme left is your "back" button (not sure if they actually call it 
>> that) but let's say you're listening to a music shuffle...and you want to go 
>> back a song, this is the button you would press.  So that leaves the button 
>> on the right; this takes you forward through your music.  HTH!  Oh and you 
>> probably have figured out that the button in front (not on the top) this is 
>> the button you press when you want to tell Alexa to do something.
>> Tom Kaufman
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:43 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: Amazon Echo Alexa
>> 
>> Well its good news so spread it around 
>> My Tap just arrived and I’ve already connected it to my network though I do 
>> have a couple of questions.
>> I should have asked what all the buttons on the top were for, there seem to 
>> be 5.
>> Obviously two I’d assume are volume up and down, one would be the Action 
>> button so what do the other two do?
>> The “Tap” button is on the front and obvious though I thought perhaps one of 
>> the top five might be the “Tap”.
>> Also mine came with a Base though the Tap has a USB port on the back of it, 
>> does the Base offer anything more or is it just a charging stand.
>> 
>>> On 13 Feb 2017, at 10:21 am, Tom Kaufman  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Great news!  There are a couple of folks on the group I'm in on Roger that 
>>> are from Australia; maybe they already know this!
>>> Tom Kaufman
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>>> Trethowan
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 6:00 PM
>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>>> Subject: Re: Amazon Echo Alexa
>>> 
>>> It will be! coming in September
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 13/02/2017 9:52 AM, Tom Kaufman wrote:
 That's too bad!  Hopefully the Amazon Echo will be supported in Australia 
 soon!
 Tom Kaufman
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
 Trethowan
 Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 3:31 PM
 To: PC Audio Discussion List 
 Subject: Re: Amazon Echo Alexa
 
 Course - given Amazon Echo isn’t fully supported in Australia yet - I’ve 
 got to be a little careful applying firmware updates.
 There have been reports here of people applying the updates and then 
 finding that their Echo won’t load again, no problem with the Echo itself 
 of course but all the workarounds we in Australia use to get the Echo 
 working can be wiped out it seems.
 
> On 12 Feb 2017, at 7:24 am, Tom Kaufman  wrote:
> 
> Clifford:  I've heard this too, but am not sure it's available in all 
> areas yet!  I have the tap, so maybe I'll get to see how it works!
> Tom Kaufman
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
> Clifford Blackwell
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 2:21 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: Amazon Echo Alexa
> 
> I believe I just read that the Tap is getting a hand's free update that
> might make it even more user friendly.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dane Trethowan" 
> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" 
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Amazon Echo Alexa

Re: Echo Tap initial impressions

[Mary Otten]

One thing that isn't clear to me is whether you can force an echo
device to look for an update, and if so, how. I have the original
amazon echo, and I've never bothered to look into this question; I just
figured updates would come when they came, but how to know if you have
actually received one?

Mary

RE: Amazon Echo Alexa

[Mary Otten]

I'm sure that this will work for both iPhone and android apps. This
came from an android-centric site, so the author didn't bother to
mention iPhone apps.

Mary

Tidal music service on a mac?

[Mary Otten]

It seems to me that somebody posted on one of these lists about a program they 
were using to access the TIDAL music service on a Mac. This has become more 
interesting with the recent announcement of master quality audio available now 
on TIDAL for their premium subscribers. What was or is the program that makes 
it possible for you to listen to TIDAL on your Mac?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

Re: The B MM1 Computer speaker system

[Mary Otten]

I never even checked out those jacks on the speaker. I will have to try my good 
headphones and see what that sounds like. I have a couple of very nice sets, so 
it should be interesting.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> I made a mistake in something I said about this speaker system so time to 
> correct.
> I said the unit had two Aux-In connections, it only has one, the top of the 
> two 3.5MM sockets is a headphones output and a very good headphones output 
> indeed, just tried it with my worst pair of headphones and things sound 
> reasonable.
> Well actually my worst pair of headphones aren’t too bad, can’t remember the 
> model of the Senheiser’s now but we’ve talked about them on list often 
> enough, I bought them along with all the Podcast production equipment around 
> about a year ago I think it was, these Senheiser’s aren’t the best but for 
> $50? Well you can’t go past them.
> 
>> On 5 Jan 2017, at 6:54 am, Jamie Kelly  wrote:
>> 
>> Yep, agree Dane, amazing sound, just working out the remote control and if I 
>> can check or update firmware.
>> 
>> Jamie
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2017 10:54 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: The B MM1 Computer speaker system
>> 
>> I don’t know in American dollars I’m afraid, I’m estimating no more than 
>> $300?
>> I know here they retail for $749 and I got a pair on sale for $599.
>> 
>>> On 4 Jan 2017, at 10:39 pm, Brian Olesen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Dane,
>>> What is the cost for those nice beasts?
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>>> Fra: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] På vegne af Dane 
>>> Trethowan
>>> Sendt: 4. januar 2017 03:31
>>> Til: PC Audio Discussion List 
>>> Emne: The B MM1 Computer speaker system
>>> 
>>> And hello to the other list members I know who have this speaker system and 
>>> I’m curious to know if you’ve found what I’ve found with this system.
>>> Firstly I knew what to expect - well I assumed I did - and for the most 
>>> part I was right but there’s no doubt about it, the best place to listen to 
>>> any product is in your own home thus my findings below.
>>> Firstly why is it that what you bring home looks smaller than it did in the 
>>> shop or on the shelf? That’s exactly how the B MM1’s looked when I set 
>>> them up on my desk but I’m not complaining and in fact I’m filled with 
>>> wonder as to how such a good sound can get out of speakers around 3 inches 
>>> across by 5 inches high? These things are certainly nice and small for the 
>>> desktop and sit so well on the desktop too so they’re not likely to be 
>>> knocked over in a hurry.
>>> There’s a bit to setting up this system, you have to obviously plug the 
>>> left speaker into the right, B use a proprietary plug on the end of a 
>>> lead from the left speaker which plugs into a socket on the bottom rear of 
>>> the right one, the right speaker is where everything else connects 
>>> including the power supply, the uSB connection to your computer and the two 
>>> AUX-in devices if you so desire some.
>>> The cables - all except the Aux-in cables - have to be slotted out of the 
>>> connections through slots in the lower rear of the speakers otherwise the 
>>> speakers won’t grip the desktop properly and slotting the cables is easy 
>>> and logically straight forward.
>>> So time to play some of the great FLAC files I have and I wasn’t 
>>> disappointed in fact - in some areas - I was astounded at the wonderful 
>>> sound stage these speakers exhibited, a wonderful stereo field indeed.
>>> If you’re looking for absolutely massive bass then these speakers aren’t 
>>> for you but if you’re looking for a speaker set designed for your music as 
>>> you sit at your desk then the B MM1 won’t disappoint at all.
>>> Yes, the right speaker - where all the circuitry is - does get quite warm 
>>> during use but I believe the top metal plate is probably designed to be 
>>> warm to dissipate any heat generated inside the speaker itself so nothing 
>>> to be alarmed about.
>>> 
>>> **
>>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>>> halfwits in this world behind.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> **
>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>> halfwits in this world behind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Goodbye to another old and faithful product and time to try a new one

[Mary Otten]

Thanks for the tip. I haven't used airfoil in ages. I was a devoted airfoil 
user. Then airplay came along. And I migrated. But what about from your eye 
devices, such as phones or iPads? I guess there isn't an airfoil for the iPhone 
is there? I've never heard of it.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 7:23 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that problem hit me fair and square when I removed my Airport Express 
> but I found a way around it and I’m glad you mentioned this as I had intended 
> to dedicate a post to this problem.
> All one has to do to stream Apple Music to a Chromecast is to use the Airfoil 
> App, both Windows and Mac versions recognise the Chromecast.
> There are other options as well but Airfoil is by far the easiest and most 
> configurable.
> 
>> On 4 Jan 2017, at 2:14 pm, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Nice idea. But if you have a Mac and a bunch of music in the Apple cloud, 
>> it's not practical. You can't Chromecast anything from Apple unfortunately. 
>> Not that you can't use an Apple device with the Chromecast audio. It's just 
>> that you can't Chromecast anything from Apple Music or your Mac running 
>> iTunes. Since that's where a whole lot of my stuff is, I still have my 
>> airport expresses working fine if a bit old. Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yep, time to say goodbye to the Airport Express units which I've been using 
>>> for so long - well one far longer than the other actually -.
>>> I bought my first Airport Express -first generation - in 2009 and the newer 
>>> generation in 2013 and that's the latest and last Airport Express 
>>> generation to be made.
>>> Unfortunately the Airport Express has not kept up with current Wi-Fi trends 
>>> or perhaps the simple answer is that it can't? We now have Wi-Fi AAC for 
>>> example which is a huge step forward.
>>> Once aupon a not so long ago, I used the Airport Express as a router 
>>> however what the Airport Express was capable of then has now been totally 
>>> eclipsed by other routers from the big names such as Asus and so on.
>>> So what am I using in the place of the Airport Express to receive audio 
>>> streams? The new Google Chromecast Audio which arrived today.
>>> Its simple to set up thanks to the Google Home App on both Android and IOS, 
>>> I used Android for the setup Operating System this time and found the 
>>> Google Home App easy to navigate.
>>> Only thing that does worry me is how good the receiver in the Chromecast 
>>> Audio is as it described the Wi-Fi network I connected to as having a "Weak 
>>> Signal" and I was advised to connect to another with a stronger signal, 
>>> well we'll find out later today just how robust the connection really is 
>>> when I put the Chromecast Audio through its paces.
>>> The Chromecast Audio looks very similar in size to the current generation 
>>> of the Chromecast but instead of a HDMI port it has a 3.5MM audio port 
>>> which is capable of providing both analogue and digital output, if the 
>>> Chromecast were only an analogue output device then I would never have 
>>> considered purchasing one.
>>> I paid $60 Australian for the Chromecast Audio and that to me represents 
>>> excellent value, I don't expect top notch audio for my $60 but I'm quite 
>>> sure I'll get reasonable - if not very decent - audio when I connect the 
>>> Chromecast Audio to my Rotel DAC, I might even connect the Chromecast Audio 
>>> to my new MM1 Speakers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
>>> 
>>> Those with negative attitudes are a problem, those with positive outlooks 
>>> are the solution.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The B MM1 Computer speaker system

[Mary Otten]

No, I never had any reason or much of anything to try to play through the 
analog Jack.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> On a slightly different note, have you tried connecting anything through the 
> aux-in jack? I’m told that the difference is quality when using an analogue 
> source is noticeable though the person who told me this said that things 
> didn’t sound too bad, just not as good as the direct digital link from the PC 
> or Mac.
> 
>> On 4 Jan 2017, at 2:26 pm, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, all I know is that I found that my right speaker was getting quite 
>> warm if I didn't turn them off. Now maybe that was because something was 
>> happening on my Mac, such as the sound when sa mail message comes through, 
>> so they were staying awake too much. In any case, I got into the habit of 
>> turning them off when I wasn't actually sitting in front of the machine.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Absolutely right Mary, when you’ve positioned yourself in line with the 
>>> speakers then they sound utterly gorgeous.
>>> I’ll take note of what you mentioned about powering the speakers down when 
>>> not in use, I actually thought the speakers powered down themselves after a 
>>> certain amount of time when not in use?
>>> 
>>>> On 4 Jan 2017, at 2:12 pm, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I would say that your observations fit pretty well with mine. The sweet 
>>>> spot for those speakers is definitely seated at your desk with the 
>>>> speakers properly positioned. Also, when not in use, turn them off. If you 
>>>> leave them on, that right speaker will get hot even if you're not using 
>>>> them actively. At least, minded. I have had them for years. It could be 
>>>> they modified something a little bit to make that not happen. I had never 
>>>> seen them in a store, so I can't comment on your perception that they look 
>>>> smaller when you get them home then they did when you saw them in the 
>>>> store.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> And hello to the other list members I know who have this speaker system 
>>>>> and I’m curious to know if you’ve found what I’ve found with this system.
>>>>> Firstly I knew what to expect - well I assumed I did - and for the most 
>>>>> part I was right but there’s no doubt about it, the best place to listen 
>>>>> to any product is in your own home thus my findings below.
>>>>> Firstly why is it that what you bring home looks smaller than it did in 
>>>>> the shop or on the shelf? That’s exactly how the B MM1’s looked when I 
>>>>> set them up on my desk but I’m not complaining and in fact I’m filled 
>>>>> with wonder as to how such a good sound can get out of speakers around 3 
>>>>> inches across by 5 inches high? These things are certainly nice and small 
>>>>> for the desktop and sit so well on the desktop too so they’re not likely 
>>>>> to be knocked over in a hurry.
>>>>> There’s a bit to setting up this system, you have to obviously plug the 
>>>>> left speaker into the right, B use a proprietary plug on the end of a 
>>>>> lead from the left speaker which plugs into a socket on the bottom rear 
>>>>> of the right one, the right speaker is where everything else connects 
>>>>> including the power supply, the uSB connection to your computer and the 
>>>>> two AUX-in devices if you so desire some.
>>>>> The cables - all except the Aux-in cables - have to be slotted out of the 
>>>>> connections through slots in the lower rear of the speakers otherwise the 
>>>>> speakers won’t grip the desktop properly and slotting the cables is easy 
>>>>> and logically straight forward.
>>>>> So time to play some of the great FLAC files I have and I wasn’t 
>>>>> disappointed in fact - in some areas - I was astounded at the wonderful 
>>>>> sound stage these speakers exhibited, a wonderful stereo field indeed.
>>

Re: The B MM1 Computer speaker system

[Mary Otten]

Well, all I know is that I found that my right speaker was getting quite warm 
if I didn't turn them off. Now maybe that was because something was happening 
on my Mac, such as the sound when sa mail message comes through, so they were 
staying awake too much. In any case, I got into the habit of turning them off 
when I wasn't actually sitting in front of the machine.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Absolutely right Mary, when you’ve positioned yourself in line with the 
> speakers then they sound utterly gorgeous.
> I’ll take note of what you mentioned about powering the speakers down when 
> not in use, I actually thought the speakers powered down themselves after a 
> certain amount of time when not in use?
> 
>> On 4 Jan 2017, at 2:12 pm, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I would say that your observations fit pretty well with mine. The sweet spot 
>> for those speakers is definitely seated at your desk with the speakers 
>> properly positioned. Also, when not in use, turn them off. If you leave them 
>> on, that right speaker will get hot even if you're not using them actively. 
>> At least, minded. I have had them for years. It could be they modified 
>> something a little bit to make that not happen. I had never seen them in a 
>> store, so I can't comment on your perception that they look smaller when you 
>> get them home then they did when you saw them in the store.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> And hello to the other list members I know who have this speaker system and 
>>> I’m curious to know if you’ve found what I’ve found with this system.
>>> Firstly I knew what to expect - well I assumed I did - and for the most 
>>> part I was right but there’s no doubt about it, the best place to listen to 
>>> any product is in your own home thus my findings below.
>>> Firstly why is it that what you bring home looks smaller than it did in the 
>>> shop or on the shelf? That’s exactly how the B MM1’s looked when I set 
>>> them up on my desk but I’m not complaining and in fact I’m filled with 
>>> wonder as to how such a good sound can get out of speakers around 3 inches 
>>> across by 5 inches high? These things are certainly nice and small for the 
>>> desktop and sit so well on the desktop too so they’re not likely to be 
>>> knocked over in a hurry.
>>> There’s a bit to setting up this system, you have to obviously plug the 
>>> left speaker into the right, B use a proprietary plug on the end of a 
>>> lead from the left speaker which plugs into a socket on the bottom rear of 
>>> the right one, the right speaker is where everything else connects 
>>> including the power supply, the uSB connection to your computer and the two 
>>> AUX-in devices if you so desire some.
>>> The cables - all except the Aux-in cables - have to be slotted out of the 
>>> connections through slots in the lower rear of the speakers otherwise the 
>>> speakers won’t grip the desktop properly and slotting the cables is easy 
>>> and logically straight forward.
>>> So time to play some of the great FLAC files I have and I wasn’t 
>>> disappointed in fact - in some areas - I was astounded at the wonderful 
>>> sound stage these speakers exhibited, a wonderful stereo field indeed.
>>> If you’re looking for absolutely massive bass then these speakers aren’t 
>>> for you but if you’re looking for a speaker set designed for your music as 
>>> you sit at your desk then the B MM1 won’t disappoint at all.
>>> Yes, the right speaker - where all the circuitry is - does get quite warm 
>>> during use but I believe the top metal plate is probably designed to be 
>>> warm to dissipate any heat generated inside the speaker itself so nothing 
>>> to be alarmed about.
>>> 
>>> **
>>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>>> halfwits in this world behind.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Goodbye to another old and faithful product and time to try a new one

[Mary Otten]

Nice idea. But if you have a Mac and a bunch of music in the Apple cloud, it's 
not practical. You can't Chromecast anything from Apple unfortunately. 
Not that you can't use an Apple device with the Chromecast audio. It's just 
that you can't Chromecast anything from Apple Music or your Mac running iTunes. 
Since that's where a whole lot of my stuff is, I still have my airport 
expresses working fine if a bit old. Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Yep, time to say goodbye to the Airport Express units which I've been using 
> for so long - well one far longer than the other actually -.
> I bought my first Airport Express -first generation - in 2009 and the newer 
> generation in 2013 and that's the latest and last Airport Express generation 
> to be made.
> Unfortunately the Airport Express has not kept up with current Wi-Fi trends 
> or perhaps the simple answer is that it can't? We now have Wi-Fi AAC for 
> example which is a huge step forward.
> Once aupon a not so long ago, I used the Airport Express as a router however 
> what the Airport Express was capable of then has now been totally eclipsed by 
> other routers from the big names such as Asus and so on.
> So what am I using in the place of the Airport Express to receive audio 
> streams? The new Google Chromecast Audio which arrived today.
> Its simple to set up thanks to the Google Home App on both Android and IOS, I 
> used Android for the setup Operating System this time and found the Google 
> Home App easy to navigate.
> Only thing that does worry me is how good the receiver in the Chromecast 
> Audio is as it described the Wi-Fi network I connected to as having a "Weak 
> Signal" and I was advised to connect to another with a stronger signal, well 
> we'll find out later today just how robust the connection really is when I 
> put the Chromecast Audio through its paces.
> The Chromecast Audio looks very similar in size to the current generation of 
> the Chromecast but instead of a HDMI port it has a 3.5MM audio port which is 
> capable of providing both analogue and digital output, if the Chromecast were 
> only an analogue output device then I would never have considered purchasing 
> one.
> I paid $60 Australian for the Chromecast Audio and that to me represents 
> excellent value, I don't expect top notch audio for my $60 but I'm quite sure 
> I'll get reasonable - if not very decent - audio when I connect the 
> Chromecast Audio to my Rotel DAC, I might even connect the Chromecast Audio 
> to my new MM1 Speakers.
> 
> 
> **
> 
> Those with negative attitudes are a problem, those with positive outlooks are 
> the solution.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The B MM1 Computer speaker system

[Mary Otten]

I would say that your observations fit pretty well with mine. The sweet spot 
for those speakers is definitely seated at your desk with the speakers properly 
positioned. Also, when not in use, turn them off. If you leave them on, that 
right speaker will get hot even if you're not using them actively. At least, 
minded. I have had them for years. It could be they modified something a little 
bit to make that not happen. I had never seen them in a store, so I can't 
comment on your perception that they look smaller when you get them home then 
they did when you saw them in the store.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> And hello to the other list members I know who have this speaker system and 
> I’m curious to know if you’ve found what I’ve found with this system.
> Firstly I knew what to expect - well I assumed I did - and for the most part 
> I was right but there’s no doubt about it, the best place to listen to any 
> product is in your own home thus my findings below.
> Firstly why is it that what you bring home looks smaller than it did in the 
> shop or on the shelf? That’s exactly how the B MM1’s looked when I set them 
> up on my desk but I’m not complaining and in fact I’m filled with wonder as 
> to how such a good sound can get out of speakers around 3 inches across by 5 
> inches high? These things are certainly nice and small for the desktop and 
> sit so well on the desktop too so they’re not likely to be knocked over in a 
> hurry.
> There’s a bit to setting up this system, you have to obviously plug the left 
> speaker into the right, B use a proprietary plug on the end of a lead from 
> the left speaker which plugs into a socket on the bottom rear of the right 
> one, the right speaker is where everything else connects including the power 
> supply, the uSB connection to your computer and the two AUX-in devices if you 
> so desire some.
> The cables - all except the Aux-in cables - have to be slotted out of the 
> connections through slots in the lower rear of the speakers otherwise the 
> speakers won’t grip the desktop properly and slotting the cables is easy and 
> logically straight forward.
> So time to play some of the great FLAC files I have and I wasn’t disappointed 
> in fact - in some areas - I was astounded at the wonderful sound stage these 
> speakers exhibited, a wonderful stereo field indeed.
> If you’re looking for absolutely massive bass then these speakers aren’t for 
> you but if you’re looking for a speaker set designed for your music as you 
> sit at your desk then the B MM1 won’t disappoint at all.
> Yes, the right speaker - where all the circuitry is - does get quite warm 
> during use but I believe the top metal plate is probably designed to be warm 
> to dissipate any heat generated inside the speaker itself so nothing to be 
> alarmed about.
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: ChromeCast.

[Mary Otten]

Once the phone or tablet has sent the audio or audio plus video to the 
Chromecast, the Chromecast stream is using Wi-Fi directly from the source. But 
Apple Music does not allow chrome cast. So if you are heavily into Apple Music, 
it won't be a good choice.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 6:10 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Yesterday i tried the Chromecast for music at one of my friends and was very 
> amazed.
> But one thing i don’t get the hang of is how it actually can stream the music 
> or radio station even after you closed the app or even turned of your phone.
> Does it connects directly to the stream itself instead of getting the info 
> via the phone like the airport express?
> So why should i have the airport express then?
> Can most apps stream through chromeCast on the Iphone?
> TuneinRadio can do that and i guess vlc but how about apple Music and how 
> about other apps?
> Thanks.
> /A

The New Even Over-Ear Headphones Will Blow Your Mind Without Blowing Your Ears

[Mary Otten]

I would love to hear these. The only thing missing in this article is the price.
Mary
The New Even Over-Ear Headphones Will Blow Your Mind Without Blowing Your Ears
Technology - The Huffington Post  /  Morena Duwe



"Why aren't headphones, or personal audio for that matter, actually personal? 
Why aren't they more like prescription glasses, where each and every person 
gets her or his own custom sound-fit based on a hearing profile?" This is what 
Danny Aronson asked himself when his good friend Ofer Raz asked him to 
recommend a good pair of headphones three years ago. Realizing he could not 
name a pair of headphones that he felt were worthy of his close friend's ears, 
he decided to create his own.

As a classically trained composer and sound designer, Aronson has dedicated 20 
years of his life to the art of sound. He plays the flute, piano and guitar and 
has a degree in music composition from the University of Tel Aviv. Aronson 
studied score-writing as well as avant-garde and modern music which guided him 
towards his career in sound design where he led Israel's largest audio 
post-production facility. As is the natural progression of human anatomy, our 
senses tend to weaken with age. With a profession in music, Aronson refused to 
let his hearing become an impairment.

Even headphones are a one-of-a-kind, personal sonic experience. Their slick 
design, ergonomic fit, and walnut wood ear pieces make each pair unique, just 
as each person's hearing is unique. The entire audio industry has been based 
upon the assumption that "one sound fits all," as stated by Aronson. "We know 
that this assumption is simply untrue," he explains in an interview. "Just like 
eyesight or any other physical attribute, people each hear differently and our 
left ear hears differently from the right."

Even's core crew consists of Danny Aronson (CEO), Ofer Raz (CTO), Mosi Shuchman 
(VP of Operations), Ronen Hillel (head of sound design), Pam Kramer (consumer 
marketing), Christian Riley (CMO), Kevin Leong (chief manufacturer) as well as 
a team of software, firmware, sound and acoustic engineers. They have been 
working on these headphones for two and a half years and launched their first 
batch of earbuds in June of 2016 which sold out within 48 hours. Their newest 
creation, the H1 over-ear pair, launched October 19th.



Before you use these headphones, you must first tailor them to your ears 
through a 90 second test administered by a mysterious woman named "Sarah." 
After plugging in your headphones, you press the Even button and Sarah tests 
your reactions to a series of frequencies ranging from 125hz (very low bass) to 
14KHZ (very high) and several pitches in between. The result is a perfectly 
balanced and customized listening experience where the headphones are actually 
tuned into the exact frequencies that your ears hear. "The first time I heard 
music with my own EarPrint, the experience took me back 30 years," reflects 
Aronson. "It was an emotional, moving moment for me. I was blown away."

The benefits of Even EarPrint technology include a uniquely rich and detailed 
sound that compensates for frequencies you may have lost over time or have 
always had issues with, creating a feeling of surround-sound - the sense of 
being engulfed by the music.

The technology behind the unique EarPrint sound is based on a complex algorithm 
that was perfected over the span of two years and developed by professional 
music mastering engineers, sound designers and software engineers. The 
sensation these headphones produce is clean lows, thick mids and crisp highs. 
"Imagine, for example, that you don't hear 8KHZ frequencies in your right ear 
as well as you do in your left. What do you do?" Aronson asks. "You crank up 
the volume, affecting all frequencies, in both ears. This can really muddy the 
sound. Once you hear music set to your unique EarPrint, you simply hear what 
you've been missing. People often turn down the volume!"

The concept of EarPrint technology is also ideal for musicians, producers and 
DJs who are frequently exposed to loud music. It provides a safe haven for 
their ears as well as a clear differentiation between frequencies for a better 
understanding of sound. The better one hears, the better music one can create. 
Those who rely on their ears for their careers will especially appreciate these 
headphones.

Living in a busy city where noise never sleeps, my headphones are a sonic 
oasis. At any time, when my mind becomes overwhelmed with sirens, screams and 
helicopters, I can plug in my headphones and hang out with The Beatles, David 
Bowie and David Tipper, letting all the noise around me just melt away like 
candle-wax. Those personal moments of truly listening to music instead of just 
hearing it are like falling in love, and with the right headphones, those 
moments can be relived forever.



Introducing Even in One Minute from Even Singular Sound on Vimeo.

Website | Facebook



Original 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

Well, for great audio, you can get the zte axon 7 for $400 U.S. The
only issue is the software and its accessibility quirks and what one
must do to deal with that. I was on the edge of purchasing one of those
because of the audio, but decided I didn't want to fool with the
quirks. 

Mary

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

Somehow I guess I missed the memo so to speak, about that LG DAC attachment. 
Which model phone is that? It isn't the really new one, is it? If it is, it's 
expensive. Without going into a bunch of detail, one of the things I don't like 
about Apple devices is their cost. One of the things I  least appreciate about 
android is having to screw around with it. That's why I bought a Nexus. Anyway, 
that's for a different list. I really am not thrilled with the audio on my 
Nexus, however. So I guess nothing is perfect anywhere you go.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:13 PM, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> I considered getting that modular LG phone for the DAC attachment. I've never 
> owned an Android device and I got cold feet as to the effort I'd have to put 
> into getting to grips with it. You can get into a comfort zone with IOS 
> devices that is hard to break. And I think some of my apps may not be so 
> accessible or even available on the Android platform. But part of me would 
> love to break out of that walled garden called Apple (smiles).
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: 18 October 2016 20:57
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?
> 
> No, nothing to do with JBL, B make a DAC for the Lg phone I mentioned.
> 
> I also mentioned that - being a modula phone - various modules could be 
> attached, the B DAC being a case in point so - when I think about it 
>  - its quite possible that JBL might make a speaker of some kind for 
> that phone.
> 
> I'm not in a hurry to buy the B P9 either but - already having P7's and 
> naturally curious to see what the P9's sound like in comparison.
> 
> Of more immediate interest to me in the B line is the B P7 wireless.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19/10/2016 6:49 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker 
>> of some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very 
>> curious what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price 
>> range. I don't care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from 
>> an iPhone 6s to a 7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might 
>> make for some of the differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is 
>> certainly louder than the 6S, and I do think it sounds better. The stereo 
>> image of course is a joke. I have a Nexus six android device for comparison. 
>> The iPhone sounds better. The stereo image if you want to call it that, on 
>> the Nexus is actually better, probably because the speakers both face the 
>> same direction. But the Nexus is so incredibly lacking in bass, that they 
>> might as well not have bothered with the stereo at all. The single iPhone 
>> speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus with its dual stereo speakers.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A most interesting read!
>>> 
>>> I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone 
>>> though - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but 
>>> for speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.
>>> 
>>> Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I 
>>> had an iPhone 6S at one time.
>>> 
>>> I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't 
>>> quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on 
>>> the 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at 
>>> all surprised to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's 
>>> the only thing that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.
>>> 
>>> I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock 
>>> to 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high 
>>> quality Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising 
>>> that Apple didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I 
>>> think Apple should have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality 
>>> converter - say for a couple of hundred dollars - so the user would at 
>>> least have the choice of an upgrade.
>>> 
>>> LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember 
>>> the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or 
>&

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

I think the extra attachment you can get for that LG phone is a JBL speaker of 
some kind. Not sure about any sort of extra DAC. I will also be very curious 
what you think of the P9, although it is frankly out of my price range. I don't 
care how good it is, there must be limits. Smile. I went from an iPhone 6s to a 
7+, so I have a size difference in my phone, which might make for some of the 
differences in sound between the two. The 7+ is certainly louder than the 6S, 
and I do think it sounds better. The stereo image of course is a joke. I have a 
Nexus six android device for comparison. The iPhone sounds better. The stereo 
image if you want to call it that, on the Nexus is actually better, probably 
because the speakers both face the same direction. But the Nexus is so 
incredibly lacking in bass, that they might as well not have bothered with the 
stereo at all. The single iPhone speaker in my 6S sounded better than the Nexus 
with its dual stereo speakers.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:33 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> A most interesting read!
> 
> I've always been impressed with the internal speakers on Apple iPhone though 
> - like you - I've never taken them seriously for music listening but for 
> speech and Voiceover the internal iPhone speaker is superb.
> 
> Now I have an iPhone 6 because of my Arcam DAC - the same as yours - and I 
> had an iPhone 6S at one time.
> 
> I think - could be wrong - that the quality of the iPhone 6 speaker isn't 
> quite as good as that of the 6S but none the less iits an improvement on the 
> 5S and so its gone on right up through the iPhone series so I'm not at all 
> surprised to hear that the speakers of the iPhone 7 sound good, that's the 
> only thing that's tempting me to go out and buy an iPhone 7.
> 
> I'm not at all surprised to at your comments regarding the Lightning Dock to 
> 3.5MM jack converter but - as Apple have never ever provided high quality 
> Earbuds with their iPhones anyway - its therefore not surprising that Apple 
> didn't provide a high quality DAC but - having said that - I think Apple 
> should have stated this and perhaps sold a higher quality converter - say for 
> a couple of hundred dollars - so the user would at least have the choice of 
> an upgrade.
> 
> LG does this with one of their phones, its a modular phone - can't remember 
> the name of it - but the user has the choice of using what's available or 
> buying other options to enhance the quality of audio, photos etc.
> 
> I have a set of Philips cans here that plug straight into a Lightning 
> connector so - if and when I get a chance - I'm looking forward to connecting 
> these to an iPhone 7 and doing some comparisons with that cheap nasty 
> lightning to 3.5MM jack converter .
> 
> I like you have a pair of P7's, love the things and - may as well tell you 
> now - I'm off to listen to the B P9's shortly.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19/10/2016 6:17 AM, John Gurd wrote:
>> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
>> with limited opportunities to play with it.
>> 
>>  
>> Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
>> speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
>> sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
>> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
>> books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
>> a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
>> audio serious consideration.
>> 
>>  
>> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
>> jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
>> much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
>> Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
>> device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
>> Apple.
>> 
>>  
>> Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
>> subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
>> and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
>> never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
>> music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
>> felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
>> I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
>> 1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
>> sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
>> with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
>> best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
>> Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
>> headphones for your 

Re: iPhone 7 disappointing audio...?

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,
Your findings are interesting. I have not gotten around to actually using 
headphones with this little new adapter. I was intrigued, however, when I saw a 
post yesterday or the day before from a guy who says he was able to use his EKG 
to 40s with the little adapter with great effect. He said they really sounded 
good. Those phones typically require an extra  amp to be driven decently. I 
have a pair of a KGQ701 phones which are really nice, but if you don't have a 
preamp, forget it. So I thought I would try them but haven't done it yet with 
the little new adapter. I will be curious to see if I hear the same things that 
you did. I really liked the P7 even just with the output from the iPhone 6s. 
It's not perfect. But convenience can't be beat. I was hoping that the 
experience would be even better with this new phone and it's DAC, being better 
than the power straight out of the 6S. I guess I will have to get to it and see 
what I think.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:17 PM, John Gurd  wrote:
> 
> I got an iPhone 7 a few days ago and had it away with me on a weekend break
> with limited opportunities to play with it. 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, on this list there’s always someone who wants to know what the phone
> speaker sounds like. To dispense with that question quickly, it’s the best
> sounding iPhone (that doesn’t have a Plus in its name) I’ve heard so far.
> Not surprising, as it has two tiny speakers instead of one so Voice Over and
> books on Voice Dream Reader sound very pleasant. I don’t listen to music on
> a phone speaker and am always surprised when people give this aspect of
> audio serious consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the iPhone 7 is the infamous one where they got rid of the audio
> jack. So I took my trusty B P7 headphones, my ancient and cheap but
> much-loved (for sentimental reasons) Koss Porto Pros and my Bluetooth
> Plantronics BackBeat Pros and the lightening ear pods that ship with the
> device. No DAC except the little lightning to 3.5mm convertor supplied by
> Apple. 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my first impressions and I have to emphasis they were entirely
> subjective with no attempt at rigor. Imagine my shock when I tried my P7s
> and thought they sounded awful! The mid-range was thin with a hardness I
> never noticed before. The base was there but not particularly extended. The
> music sounded kind of flat with no real involvement. For the first time I
> felt I knew what was meant when components were described as unmusical. When
> I then tried my Koss Porto Pros whose basic design hasn’t changed since the
> 1980’s and which at one point retailed at around £25 I actually thought they
> sounded better but with the qualities described above still present, perhaps
> with more space and a warmer tone. The Bluetooth BackBeat Pros sounded the
> best with musicality restored and a warmth replacing the hard midrange. The
> Apple earpods were what you would expect: a good reason for buying decent
> headphones for your Apple device. 
> 
> 
> 
> The culprit, of course, was the $9 DAC provided by Apple for those folk who
> will insist on owning headphones with a 3.5mm plug. The frustrating thing
> was that as I was away from home I couldn’t try any other lightning to audio
> DAC. I did have my Arcam MusicBoost case but as it is made for the thinner
> iPhone 6 I didn’t fancy having my new iPhone 7 permanently wedged in it. Out
> of desperation I did gingerly try to insert it but gave up when it became
> clear it would end in disaster. 
> 
> 
> 
> What I didn’t do (and still haven’t done) was try the above headphones with
> the audio jack on my old iPhone 6 to see if it really did sound worse on the
> iPhone 7 or if it was just a trick of the mind because I was expecting
> better. Since arriving home I have tried my P7s with the Oppo HA 2 DAC and
> the iPhone 7 and I am glad to say they were back to being absolutely
> stunning. That’s a relief. I then tried them again with the little Apple
> supplied DAC converter and although they weren’t as shockingly bad as my
> first impression they still sounded seriously under par, and that also when
> for my little plastic Porto Pros. Yet I still feel even the Porto Pros
> sounded better with the old audio jack. It mostly came down to that sense of
> hardness and lack of musicality I felt I detected. 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, what do you expect for what amounts to a $9 DAC, I hear you say. Most
> people who have a cheap pair of headphones won’t notice or care and will
> just want them to work. I am quite sure that some headphones will even sound
> better for it. But as I don’t always want to carry a separate and cumbersome
> DAC around with me for casual listening I do wish Apple had spent just a
> little more on their convertor.
> 
> 
> 
> John Gurd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Cassia Hub handles multi-room audio with any Bluetooth speakers

[Mary Otten]

This could be an interesting device for people who don't use airplay, and don't 
have the big bucks to spend on a full Sonos system.
Mary
Cassia Hub handles multi-room audio with any Bluetooth speakers
TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog


We first met the Cassia Hub back at CES, a device that offered the similar 
connectivity to a WiFi router but for Bluetooth. Now the company is announcing 
a new feature that will allow owners of that Bluetooth "router" a way to 
connect their wireless speakers for multi-room audio. The new tool is called 
BlueStream and it works with any Bluetooth speakers alongside the company's Hub.

Once your speakers are connected to Cassia's Hub, you can stream music from the 
likes of Apple Music, Spotify and other sources just like you would to a single 
wireless unit, only now the audio is sent to multiple devices. Instead of 
connecting to one of the speakers, you link your phone, tablet or even an 
Amazon Echo to the Hub to play tunes.

The BlueStream feature will be available as a firmware update to existing 
Cassia Hub owners. If you haven't nabbed one yet, the Bluetooth device will set 
you back $150. And if you require speakers to make use of that new tool, Cassia 
has a 360-degree model for $80.



Original Article: 
https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/11/cassia-hub-bluestream-multi-room-audio-bluetooth/


Sent from my iPhone

Re: Bowers And Wilkins P9 Headphones

[Mary Otten]

Wow! Way too rich for my blood, no matter how good they are. I'll just have to 
be happy with my P7.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 1:16 PM, Walter <w...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi.  In the UK they are £700 and with the exchange rate with the US dollar,
> it works out at $889.  Walter.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: 04 October 2016 20:07
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Bowers And Wilkins P9 Headphones
> 
> Did that notice have a price?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Just got notification that the Bowers And Wilkins P9 Headphones have just
> been released, they’re supposed to be the best headphones B have ever
> released, can’t keep up with the best can you .
>> 
>> **
>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the
> halfwits in this world behind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 

Re: Bowers And Wilkins P9 Headphones

[Mary Otten]

Did that notice have a price?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Just got notification that the Bowers And Wilkins P9 Headphones have just 
> been released, they’re supposed to be the best headphones B have ever 
> released, can’t keep up with the best can you .
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay

[Mary Otten]

I suppose that this to channel thing with voiceover in one and sound in the 
other could be useful if you're wearing a headset, taking a phone call and 
listening to the phone with one here and VoiceOver doing something with the 
other ear. I couldn't do that, but somebody probably good. Also for people who 
use mixers, of whom I am not one, I guess this could be useful. But for the use 
I wanted it for, it's useless.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2016, at 9:09 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Well that’s really good down to earth common sense ain’t it , too bad 
> if you want to listen to stereo.
> On the other hand perhaps Apple can’t easily separate Voiceover from the 
> Bluetooth stream without a major redesign.
> 
>> On 5 Oct. 2016, at 3:01 am, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm, Maybe I'll have another go with Airplay then. Incidentally, there was
>> a rumour that IOS 10 was going to allow one to keep Voice Over on a device
>> while playing audio over Bluetooth. I was disappointed when it didn't
>> transpire. Instead, it allows you to have audio on one channel and Voice
>> Over on the other. 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
>> Otten
>> Sent: 04 October 2016 16:32
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay
>> 
>> For anyone using an Apple device, there are some Stansel advantages to using
>> airplay. For one thing, VoiceOver stays on your device and doesn't interfere
>> with the music. For another, you can have multiple rooms playing from one
>> Mac. Of course you have to have airport expresses. But it still beats
>> Bluetooth for sound as far as I'm concerned. And not having VoiceOver
>> interfering with my music is a huge advantage. And it's also less laggy
>> Bluetooth. I have to disagree with John on that one. Trying to use my
>> android device when I'm playing music through my mega boom speakers is not
>> fun. Plus, I have a stereo downstairs. If I were stuck using Bluetooth, my
>> Mac wouldn't reach there. And if I left my eye device upstairs and went
>> downstairs for something, I'd be out of luck if I wanted to use that
>> downstairs stereo. Bluetooth won't go that far.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2016, at 11:50 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, you pretty much summed it up and I'll get to that in a moment.
>>> I've not heard of the speaker you mentioned but I do know of something
>> that sounds similar, the new Bowers And Wilkins Zeplin wireless which has
>> Bluetooth and Airplay facilities as well as Spotify Connect.
>>> Unfortunately Bowers And Wilkins have seen fit not to give the Zeplin Air
>> DLNA connectivity, perhaps the thinking at B is that DLNA isn't as good as
>> AirPlay.
>>> Now that Bluetooth AptX is in use widely I just don't see a future for
>> AirPlay and the "Lag" exhibited by AirPlay is perhaps the most telling point
>> in this discussion, absolutely no good for wireless headphones for example.
>>> 
>>>> On 4 Oct. 2016, at 5:37 pm, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I've got a speaker in my loft called a Stealth Air 2 which has both 
>>>> Airplay and Bluetooth with a rather nifty little remote that lets you
>> select either.
>>>> I use Bluetooth every time. Less laggy for one thing.
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Dane Trethowan
>>>> Sent: 03 October 2016 12:37
>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>>>> Subject: Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay
>>>> 
>>>> Hmm.. interesting point however take a look around you and count just 
>>>> how many AirPlayed enabled devices there are now compared to a few years
>> ago?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/10/2016 5:32 PM, John Gurd wrote:
>>>>> Surely Apple wouldn't invent a whole system of Airplaying audio 
>>>>> using a method different from anyone else to thousands of appliances 
>>>>> designed just for it and depended upon by millions of people just to 
>>>>> get rid of it? No, that doesn't sound like Apple! (Grin)
>>>>> 
>>>>> John
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---

Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay

[Mary Otten]

For anyone using an Apple device, there are some Stansel advantages to using 
airplay. For one thing, VoiceOver stays on your device and doesn't interfere 
with the music. For another, you can have multiple rooms playing from one Mac. 
Of course you have to have airport expresses. But it still beats Bluetooth for 
sound as far as I'm concerned. And not having VoiceOver interfering with my 
music is a huge advantage. And it's also less laggy Bluetooth. I have to 
disagree with John on that one. Trying to use my android device when I'm 
playing music through my mega boom speakers is not fun. Plus, I have a stereo 
downstairs. If I were stuck using Bluetooth, my Mac wouldn't reach there. And 
if I left my eye device upstairs and went downstairs for something, I'd be out 
of luck if I wanted to use that downstairs stereo. Bluetooth won't go that far.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2016, at 11:50 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Yes, you pretty much summed it up and I’ll get to that in a moment.
> I’ve not heard of the speaker you mentioned but I do know of something that 
> sounds similar, the new Bowers And Wilkins Zeplin wireless which has 
> Bluetooth and Airplay facilities as well as Spotify Connect.
> Unfortunately Bowers And Wilkins have seen fit not to give the Zeplin Air 
> DLNA connectivity, perhaps the thinking at B is that DLNA isn’t as good as 
> AirPlay.
> Now that Bluetooth AptX is in use widely I just don’t see a future for 
> AirPlay and the “Lag” exhibited by AirPlay is perhaps the most telling point 
> in this discussion, absolutely no good for wireless headphones for example.
> 
>> On 4 Oct. 2016, at 5:37 pm, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I've got a speaker in my loft called a Stealth Air 2 which has both Airplay
>> and Bluetooth with a rather nifty little remote that lets you select either.
>> I use Bluetooth every time. Less laggy for one thing.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: 03 October 2016 12:37
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay
>> 
>> Hmm.. interesting point however take a look around you and count just how
>> many AirPlayed enabled devices there are now compared to a few years ago?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/10/2016 5:32 PM, John Gurd wrote:
>>> Surely Apple wouldn't invent a whole system of Airplaying audio using 
>>> a method different from anyone else to thousands of appliances 
>>> designed just for it and depended upon by millions of people just to 
>>> get rid of it? No, that doesn't sound like Apple! (Grin)
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Dane Trethowan
>>> Sent: 03 October 2016 04:15
>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay
>>> 
>>> Still there yes but I'm given to wondering just how long for?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3/10/2016 1:14 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>>> Well, they don't exactly advertise it, nor is it well labeled. At 
>>>> least it
>>> is still there.
>>>> Mary
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Dane Trethowan 
>>>>> <grtd...@internode.on.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Okay thanks for that, I found the iPhone icon in the Control center, 
>>>>> it
>>> was where you said on page two, would never have known about it had 
>>> you not mentioned it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> **
>>>>> 
>>>>> Those with negative attitudes are a problem, those with positive 
>>>>> outlooks
>>> are the solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3 Oct. 2016, at 7:06 am, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can still get to the audio airplay in control center, although 
>>>>>> you
>>> might not know it because it's in adequately labeled. If you go to 
>>> "page 2, in your control center view, by doing the iOS page change 
>>> three finger flick, one of the things you will see in there with other 
>>> music controls is the announcement iPhone, assuming you were using an 
>>> iPhone. Or it might say iPad, if you're using an iPad. Double tap on 
>>> that, and you will see all the choice

Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay

[Mary Otten]

Well, they don't exactly advertise it, nor is it well labeled. At least it is 
still there.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2016, at 5:40 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Okay thanks for that, I found the iPhone icon in the Control center, it was 
> where you said on page two, would never have known about it had you not 
> mentioned it.
> 
> 
> **
> 
> Those with negative attitudes are a problem, those with positive outlooks are 
> the solution.
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct. 2016, at 7:06 am, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> You can still get to the audio airplay in control center, although you might 
>> not know it because it's in adequately labeled. If you go to "page 2, in 
>> your control center view, by doing the iOS page change three finger flick, 
>> one of the things you will see in there with other music controls is the 
>> announcement iPhone, assuming you were using an iPhone. Or it might say 
>> iPad, if you're using an iPad. Double tap on that, and you will see all the 
>> choices of whatever other airplay and able audio devices you have. This is 
>> true for the Amazon music app and the Apple Music app. I assume it's true in 
>> general, although those are the only two I tried. Frankly, I like the option 
>> of having the air play control it within the app. That's how it used to be 
>> before they moved it to control center. And I wish they would put it back. 
>> Or at least wish they would have the flexibility for app developers to 
>> include that airplay functionality right in the main screen of the app. That 
>> was the most convenient I thought.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anyone bothered to use IOS 10 with AirPlay?
>>> 
>>> I'm wondering if you've noticed what I have if you go into the control 
>>> center and activate AirPlay from there.
>>> 
>>> On my iPhone I only see the option to Mirror to an Apple TV - which I don't 
>>> have at the moment - and I don't see an option to stream audio to any other 
>>> compatible device.
>>> 
>>> The only way I know of to get around this is to go into the Music App, 
>>> launch the mini player view and select an AirPlay device from there, a 
>>> little annoying to have to perform that extra step but at least I can still 
>>> select my AirPlay device of choice in a roundabout way it has to be said.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: IOS 10 And AirPlay

[Mary Otten]

You can still get to the audio airplay in control center, although you might 
not know it because it's in adequately labeled. If you go to "page 2, in your 
control center view, by doing the iOS page change three finger flick, one of 
the things you will see in there with other music controls is the announcement 
iPhone, assuming you were using an iPhone. Or it might say iPad, if you're 
using an iPad. Double tap on that, and you will see all the choices of whatever 
other airplay and able audio devices you have. This is true for the Amazon 
music app and the Apple Music app. I assume it's true in general, although 
those are the only two I tried. Frankly, I like the option of having the air 
play control it within the app. That's how it used to be before they moved it 
to control center. And I wish they would put it back. Or at least wish they 
would have the flexibility for app developers to include that airplay 
functionality right in the main screen of the app. That was the most convenient 
I thought.

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2016, at 12:27 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone bothered to use IOS 10 with AirPlay?
> 
> I'm wondering if you've noticed what I have if you go into the control center 
> and activate AirPlay from there.
> 
> On my iPhone I only see the option to Mirror to an Apple TV - which I don't 
> have at the moment - and I don't see an option to stream audio to any other 
> compatible device.
> 
> The only way I know of to get around this is to go into the Music App, launch 
> the mini player view and select an AirPlay device from there, a little 
> annoying to have to perform that extra step but at least I can still select 
> my AirPlay device of choice in a roundabout way it has to be said.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Roku Announces Five New Streaming Devices, Here Are The Details | Redmond Pie

[Mary Otten]

Given their track record, I'd say not at all. I would love to be wrong.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 26, 2016, at 4:10 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Things don't stay still for long in the Set Top Box market these days so the 
> first obvious question is how accessible can can these things be made?
> http://www.redmondpie.com/roku-announces-five-new-streaming-devices-here-are-the-details/
>  
> 

Re: bluetooth speaker recomendations

[Mary Otten]

Watch for sales, if you are particularly interested in that speaker from 
Cambridge SoundWorks. I purchased it a few months ago from I can't remember, 
Amazon or Best Buy, and it was in the 60s. It pays to look for sales.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 25, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Rick Alfaro  wrote:
> 
> How much are you willing to spend? I'm not a fan of Bose speakers either. A
> few months ago I purchased the Cambridge SoundWorks OontZ Angle 3XL from
> Amazon for $99. It has an excellent sound and packs 20 watts of power. It
> looks like it's at $109 right now. Here is the link if you want  to check it
> out.
> 
> http://amzn.to/2cDdoYE
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Rick Alfaro
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of John
> Covici
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 8:57 PM
> To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org
> Subject: bluetooth speaker recomendations
> 
> Hi.  What are people recomending for a decent bluetooth speaker which
> will not break the bank, but has a decent sound?  The Bose has a new
> one which is cheaper than ths Sound Link II, so I am considering that,
> but any other suggestions would be appreciated.  The Bose sound is not
> my favorite.
> 
> -- 
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
> 
> John Covici
> cov...@ccs.covici.com
> 
> 
> 

Re: Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless headphones review: They sound better than the original

[Mary Otten]

 The originals are now $50 cheaper.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> I have the originals myself though one does have to wonder just how good they 
> are if they're selling for the same price as the originals which they are, 
> anyway I've made arrangements to go take a listen myself.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16/09/2016 3:16 AM, John Gurd wrote:
>> If these are as good as they claim, I'd be sorely tempted even though I've 
>> got the original P7's already.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: 14 September 2016 18:56
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless headphones review: They sound 
>> better than the original
>> 
>> I�ve owned an original Bowers And Wilkins P7 set for around 12 months now I 
>> think it is.
>> Like you I would never claim that they�re the best cans around but I reckon 
>> they�re damn good all the same so I�ll be making a point of going to my 
>> local Hi-Fi store to give these babies a listen.
>> 
>>> On 14 Sep 2016, at 11:46 PM, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Theo Nicolakis
>> **
>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>> halfwits in this world behind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless headphones review: They sound better than the original

[Mary Otten]

I would love to hear a pair of these. But even if they are noticeably better, 
$400 is a lot to pay when you already have a couple of excellent sets of 
headphones around.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:16 AM, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> If these are as good as they claim, I'd be sorely tempted even though I've 
> got the original P7's already.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: 14 September 2016 18:56
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless headphones review: They sound 
> better than the original
> 
> I�ve owned an original Bowers And Wilkins P7 set for around 12 months now I 
> think it is.
> Like you I would never claim that they�re the best cans around but I reckon 
> they�re damn good all the same so I�ll be making a point of going to my local 
> Hi-Fi store to give these babies a listen.
> 
>> On 14 Sep 2016, at 11:46 PM, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Theo Nicolakis
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless headphones review: They sound better than the original

[Mary Otten]

I own the wired P7. I must say, I haven't been as Luke warm on their sound as 
this reviewer seems to be. But if the new ones are as good as he says, that 
much better than the originals, and you don't already own a pair of P7, and you 
have 400 bucks, go for it.Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless headphones review: They 
sound better than the original
Macworld  /  Theo Nicolakis

Bowers & Wilkins has earned its place as the BMW of high-end audio. The 
company’s loudspeakers are legendary: Its five-figure Nautilus speakers have 
been displayed in museums; Abbey Road Studios has used their monitors for more 
than 20 years; and the company’s new 800 Series Diamond (which I auditioned 
during last year’s NYC launch event) are receiving rave reviews.

The company’s headphone line, on the other hand, has been the black sheep in 
the family. The wired versions have been judged as pretty good, but not truly 
great; they’ve certainly never achieved the acclaim afforded the company’s best 
speakers. Just before Apple’s iPhone 7 announcement, Bowers & Wilkins upgraded 
its P7 and P3 models to Bluetooth wireless versions. The question on just about 
every audiophile’s mind is whether these new models simply add wireless 
capability to the previous generation, or if they up the ante. I was among the 
first reviewers to get my hands on the B P7 Wireless, so I was anxious to 
find out.

Identical or fraternal twins?

 

Bowers & Wilkins P7 Wireless Headphones
 
TechHive rating
$399.99MSRP $399.99
View
on Amazon
B magically transitioned its luxurious P7 headphones to Bluetooth and made 
them sound even better than the wired version.

The new P7 Wireless are easily mistaken for the original. I placed the new 
model next to its wired forerunner, which I’ve owned for quite some time, and 
found the two virtually indistinguishable. Even their spec sheets look alike: 
two 40mm full-range drivers, impedance of 22 ohms, frequency response ranging 
from 10Hz to 20kHz, and sensitivity of 111dB/V at 1kHz. The P7 wireless are a 
hair heavier at 323g vs 290g.

The Bluetooth 4.1 P7 Wireless omits the chrome accent around the ear cups, and 
while I was sorry to see that feature cut, it has zero impact on performance. A 
three-button remote control has been added to the left ear cup, as well as a 
power switch and a micro-USB charging port on the bottom.

With all the controls now on the left side, the wired input has moved to the 
right ear cup. The ear cups are magnetic, as they were on the original. To 
switch to wired mode, emove the right-hand cup, insert the 2.5mm angled end 
into the articulating input, and you’re set. Plugging in the cable immediately 
disables Bluetooth, but removing the cable doesn’t re-enable Bluetooth. You 
must power the headphones back on again manually to do that.

 Theo Nicolakis
The B P7 Wireless have magnetic, replaceable ear cups. The right ear cup 
(shown above) also has an input for wired mode.

This lap of luxury needs some break-in time

There’s nothing cheap or flimsy with these headphones. The P7 Wireless simply 
spoil you with their luxurious fit and feel. There aren’t many headphones under 
$500 (or twice the price, for that matter) that can keep up with Bowers and 
Wilkins in this regard. In my book, the P7 Wireless are a gold-standard. The 
genuine sheep leather headband and ear cups are smooth, soft, and supple. The 
sleek-looking aluminum frame is sturdy and infinitely adjustable. The headband 
guides, conceals, and automatically expands and contracts the nylon-braided 
wire connecting each ear cup. The engineering is a thing of beauty.

The headphone design gets even better. Many over-the-ear headphones aren’t 
portable—they’re just too bulky and they can’t fold flat. B has solved this 
problem by inserting a rotating joint between the edge of the headband and the 
ear cup arm that allows you to fold the headphones to half their size. 
Brilliant.

The accessories have been pored over just as meticulously. The included 
carrying case is smooth, lined with velour, and snaps closed with a magnetic 
flap. That’s industrial design done right—down to the smallest detail.

 Theo Nicolakis
Remove the left magnetic ear cup to see the headphone’s serial number and 
Bluetooth reset button.

Like a pair of your favorite Jeans

You should treat the P7 Wireless like a new pair of designer jeans: They need 
to be broken in. As with every other B headphone I’ve owned (the P5 wireless 
and the original P7), the new P7 Wireless are stiff and overly-snug when you 
first put them on. Trust me, they'll loosen up over time. Once you’ve broken 
them in, they’ll fit like a glove. Don’t be afraid to flex the metal frame a 
bit (within reason, of course) to loosen things up more quickly.

Once you get used to the P7s, you’ll notice that other headphones will seem far 
too loose and won’t stay on your head as precisely as the P7s do. You can jog 
with them without worrying that they will shift or slide off. Perhaps most 

Re: Apple Music Challenges Spotify with Playlists

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,
I am running the beta. Yes, there are bugs. Maybe not as many as there have 
been in previous first releases.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2016, at 10:46 AM, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mary, that's encouraging. I think I'll go see if the official IOS 10
> is available. The IOS release  usually appears here in the UK around 6pm.
> Mind you, there are bound to be at least a few Voice Over bugs and it can be
> frustrating when they take months to fix.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: 12 September 2016 18:11
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Apple Music Challenges Spotify with Playlists
> 
> Hi John,
> Apple Music is definitely better in iOS 10. When you try it, I would be
> curious how you compare it with Spotify, since that is a service I was
> considering until I put the beta on my iPhone and started saying how much
> better Apple Music suggestions were for me. They have playlists the change
> every day and suggested albums that  change every day.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Ah well, Dane, you're making the mistake a lot of people do when you 
>> equate new music with Top 40. Personally, I can't stand Top 40 either, 
>> but I am interested in experimental, alternative and World music that 
>> will never get into the charts, and even very occasionally, jazz and
> classical.
>> 
>> In fact I've been considering switching from Apple Music and trying 
>> out Spotify for this reason. I heard a fascinating interview with the 
>> guy in charge of writing music algorithms for Spotify, and they sound 
>> way in advance of Apple's. They are much better at serving up what you 
>> are likely to like as well as old favourites and obscure stuff you 
>> might not have heard. Up to now I've found Apple's offerings very 
>> pedestrian and predictable and they just keep offering more of the 
>> same. An interesting thing about Spotify is that they keep an eye on 
>> listeners who tend to be consistently ahead of the curve in the music 
>> you may be interested in and use their delvings to inform the 
>> algorithms that help you discover new music. So the clever thing is 
>> that it's not just what the big music corporations have decided what
> should be in the charts.
>> 
>> Anyway, having heard that Apple seems to be becoming more like Spotify 
>> in the way the app works I'll hold off and try it in IOS 10 before 
>> trying out Spotify.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Mary Otten
>> Sent: 12 September 2016 02:31
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Apple Music Challenges Spotify with Playlists
>> 
>> Well, I can't speak for Spotify, but one of the nice things about the 
>> newly reorganized Apple Music in iOS 10 is that you get every day, 
>> some albums that it think she will like, based on what it knows about 
>> your listening habits. You also get to view new releases and genres 
>> that it thinks you like, based on what it knows about your listening 
>> habits. I assume Spotify must do something similar in their discovery tab.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2016, at 6:27 PM, Dane Trethowan 
>>> <grtd...@internode.on.net>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Seems as though Apple Music and Spotify are going to be the big 
>>> players in
>> the Music Subscription business before long.
>>> One thing I'm puzzled about though and perhaps someone can answer 
>>> this,
>> why do Apple Music and Spotify always concentrate on "New Music", most 
>> new music I absolutely despise - I'm not a listener to Top 40 radio 
>> and haven't been for 20 years or more along with a whole heap of otehr 
>> people Im sure - .
>>> 
>> http://www.radiotoday.com.au/news/whats-new/9640-apple-music-challenge
>> s-spot
>> ify-with-playlists.html
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: Apple Music Challenges Spotify with Playlists

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,
Apple Music is definitely better in iOS 10. When you try it, I would be curious 
how you compare it with Spotify, since that is a service I was considering 
until I put the beta on my iPhone and started saying how much better Apple 
Music suggestions were for me. They have playlists the change every day and 
suggested albums that  change every day.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Gurd <j.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> Ah well, Dane, you're making the mistake a lot of people do when you equate
> new music with Top 40. Personally, I can't stand Top 40 either, but I am
> interested in experimental, alternative and World music that will never get
> into the charts, and even very occasionally, jazz and classical. 
> 
> In fact I've been considering switching from Apple Music and trying out
> Spotify for this reason. I heard a fascinating interview with the guy in
> charge of writing music algorithms for Spotify, and they sound way in
> advance of Apple's. They are much better at serving up what you are likely
> to like as well as old favourites and obscure stuff you might not have
> heard. Up to now I've found Apple's offerings very pedestrian and
> predictable and they just keep offering more of the same. An interesting
> thing about Spotify is that they keep an eye on listeners who tend to be
> consistently ahead of the curve in the music you may be interested in and
> use their delvings to inform the algorithms that help you discover new
> music. So the clever thing is that it's not just what the big music
> corporations have decided what should be in the charts.
> 
> Anyway, having heard that Apple seems to be becoming more like Spotify in
> the way the app works I'll hold off and try it in IOS 10 before trying out
> Spotify. 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: 12 September 2016 02:31
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Apple Music Challenges Spotify with Playlists
> 
> Well, I can't speak for Spotify, but one of the nice things about the newly
> reorganized Apple Music in iOS 10 is that you get every day, some albums
> that it think she will like, based on what it knows about your listening
> habits. You also get to view new releases and genres that it thinks you
> like, based on what it knows about your listening habits. I assume Spotify
> must do something similar in their discovery tab.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2016, at 6:27 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Seems as though Apple Music and Spotify are going to be the big players in
> the Music Subscription business before long.
>> One thing I'm puzzled about though and perhaps someone can answer this,
> why do Apple Music and Spotify always concentrate on "New Music", most new
> music I absolutely despise - I'm not a listener to Top 40 radio and haven't
> been for 20 years or more along with a whole heap of otehr people Im sure -
> .
>> 
> http://www.radiotoday.com.au/news/whats-new/9640-apple-music-challenges-spot
> ify-with-playlists.html 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Apple Music Challenges Spotify with Playlists

[Mary Otten]

Well, I can't speak for Spotify, but one of the nice things about the newly 
reorganized Apple Music in iOS 10 is that you get every day, some albums that 
it think she will like, based on what it knows about your listening habits. You 
also get to view new releases and genres that it thinks you like, based on what 
it knows about your listening habits. I assume Spotify must do something 
similar in their discovery tab.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2016, at 6:27 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Seems as though Apple Music and Spotify are going to be the big players in 
> the Music Subscription business before long.
> One thing I'm puzzled about though and perhaps someone can answer this, why 
> do Apple Music and Spotify always concentrate on "New Music", most new music 
> I absolutely despise - I'm not a listener to Top 40 radio and haven't been 
> for 20 years or more along with a whole heap of otehr people Im sure - 
> .
> http://www.radiotoday.com.au/news/whats-new/9640-apple-music-challenges-spotify-with-playlists.html
>  
> 

Re: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced

[Mary Otten]

Somebody on another list I am on said, and I have no idea if they are blowing 
smoke or actually know something, that Apple has some kind of agreement with 
somebody who has developed a wireless charging system where you can be within 
15 feet of the source, and have your device be charging without having to have 
a pad or anything plugged in, except presumably some sort of thing plugged into 
a wall socket. They were speculating that Apple may have found some kind a flaw 
in a chip or somesuch thing which meant they didn't go with wireless charging 
this time. Again, I have no idea. I have certainly red things about companies 
trying to develop wireless charging where you don't have to have direct contact 
between your device and whatever is charging it. And this guy is claiming that 
Apple has an agreement with this company that will make that happen.  I really 
don't see the big deal about wireless charging where you have a pad that's 
plugged into the wall, then you have to put your phone on the pad. What's the 
big deal between that and a dock? If they get this wireless charging where 
somehow the charge is conducted through the air to your device, now that is 
worth pursuing perhaps.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 7:21 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Just a lightning connector unfortunately, I wonder why Apple have held back 
> on Wireless charging.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/09/2016 11:56 AM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>> Was it specified whether there is still a lightning connector, or is 
>> charging done wirelessly as well?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Steve Jacobson
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Hamit 
>> Campos
>> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 10:04 AM
>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' 
>> Subject: RE: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
>> 
>> To be honest I don't really much care. Other than the fact that oh so now 
>> what? What of the analog head phones I have? But I for 1 wanna cut the cord 
>> anyways. Wires are annoying. They tangel they can break and so on. So what 
>> evs.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of John Gurd
>> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 5:39 AM
>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' 
>> Subject: RE: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
>> 
>> Ah, but now with the removal of the 3.5mm jack you'll be able to listen 
>> underwater... (smiles)
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of JOHN RIEHL
>> Sent: 08 September 2016 01:52
>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
>> Subject: RE: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
>> 
>> Actually, there's a difference between "whining" and legitimate complaints 
>> about a feature that one values that is now lost. If I were gaining 
>> something substantial by losing the headphone jack I'd feel better about it, 
>> but I'm losing a substantial capability -- the ability to use headphones and 
>> charge my phone at the same time. As I said, I take train trips lasting 
>> several hours and listen to books, etc, while charging my phone.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
>> 
>> Whilst I don�t travel on planes I do have a hearing impairment -a profound 
>> one at that - thus I believe I�m in a position to comment as I have done.
>> There are ways around the charging problem  as you put it, I�ve seen cases 
>> already that have one or two additional lightning dock connectors.
>> As far as listening on a plan goes? Well my hearing instruments I reckon 
>> would be up to the job not that I�ve had absolute personal experience in 
>> this area given its a bit risky flying on planes with my particular hearing 
>> condition but that�s bye the bye and not of particular interest to this list.
>> I think the main problem here is that a lot of folks would rather just whine 
>> about it all.
>> 
>>> On 8 Sep 2016, at 10:28 AM, JOHN RIEHL  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What you don't realize is that for some folks who are deaf or hard of 
>>> hearing, or people like me who travel on trains and planes, having the 
>>> ability to use headphones and charge your phones is pretty important.
>>> I resent having a substantive capability taken away for the sake of 
>>> "thinness".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Hamit 
>>> Campos
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 7:16 PM
>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
>>> Subject: RE: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
>>> 
>>> Yeah not much was said but it sounds like they are more wireless than blue 
>>> tooth. They talked trach 

Re: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced

[Mary Otten]

Unless Leo had a good look at the inside of the phone, he is in no position to 
know whether they could've kept the port and kept the size the same. Blowing 
smoke as usual. That's what these guys on these big bloviating podcasts do. 
They blow smoke. They stir the water. Blah blah blah.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 8:09 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
> 
> Yeah I guess either the death sad as it is weren’t enough for Apple to care 
> and so far as charging and using goes well use the air pods whilst charging. 
> Again their be a man and suck it attitude maybe too harsh, but see though 
> they also know humans hate change. Now there is a point too that Change isn't 
> always good. New isn't always better. I hae no idea. I'd have to feel the 
> fone up to see if there's anything to when Leo said that they could have kept 
> the port.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of JOHN RIEHL
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 8:29 PM
> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' 
> Subject: RE: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
> 
> What you don't realize is that for some folks who are deaf or hard of 
> hearing, or people like me who travel on trains and planes, having the 
> ability to use headphones and charge your phones is pretty important. 
> I resent having a substantive capability taken away for the sake of 
> "thinness". 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Hamit 
> Campos
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 7:16 PM
> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
> 
> Yeah not much was said but it sounds like they are more wireless than blue 
> tooth. They talked trach about blue tooth. I mean just to say that they 
> didn't seem keen to use it. So I guess it's some kind of wireless like 
> wireless headphones and keyboards use. Which for distance is much better. Leo 
> Laporte and Andy Anatco were pissed about the jack. They kept insisting that 
> they could have kept it. But that would mean the phone would have to be wider 
> at best. Right? AAlso I agree with Shiller time to cut the cord. Cords always 
> tangle especially the cheep spegetty cord like Apple themselves use for the 
> ear pods. Or you could axidentally step on them and break something like I've 
> done to my Bose OE2I head phone kable. Stuff like that. I agree it's not fare 
> for those that have bought mad expensive stuff that is corded but oh well se 
> la vi. At least they give ya an adaptor.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 6:46 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
> 
> Indeed it has and no real surprises.
> The headphones socket has gone to make way for another speaker - thus stereo 
> speakers which should dramatically improve the sound of the phone - and that 
> can only be a plus.
> According to the blurb I read the iPhone comes with two very nice additions, 
> a lightning dock to 3.5MM headphones adapter and a set of Airbuds, 
> interesting to know whether these use AirPlay, Bluetooth or yet another 
> standard? I wasn’t presented with much information on them.
> No mention of atpX unfortunately, at least we have the dock where we can plug 
> in DAC’s if better sound is what we’re after or we have AirPlay.
> I’ll still be holding onto my iPhone 6 having spent a small fortune on the 
> Arcam DAC .
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced

[Mary Otten]

Thanks for posting that article, Tim. I just have a couple of comments on it. 
Somebody on another list I am on pointed out that the Samsung S7 and S7 active 
have that waterproof speck of 68 IPS is it 68, not 67. They have a headphone 
jack, and their spec is actually better than the new iPhone in that respect. 
Since they are actually really waterproof up to the standard that the watch is, 
rather than the less stringent standards that the new iPhone 7 meets.
The other thing is about the AirPods. These things cost 160 bucks. And they're 
not held into your ears buy anything. For instance, I have a Bluetooth earpiece 
from Plantronics, the voyager legend. It has kind of a clip thing that goes 
behind your ear. It's not going anywhere. It's not going to drop out of your 
ear. I can just imagine how many people are going to lose an air pot along the 
way and not realize it. At $160 a pop, that is going to elicit a lot of 
irritation rather quickly I think. I suspect there will be a third-party 
solutions for people who really feel they need to have both the ability to 
listen to headphones and charge their phone at the same time and who don't want 
to go wireless with stereo phones. These AirPods, they sound great. But they 
don't seem practical, because I think they will be far far too easy to 
inadvertently drop out of your ear.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Tim Noonan  wrote:
> 
> The Airpots are still using Bluetooth, but wrapped in all sorts of Apple 
> secret sauce.
> 
> Probably some aspects from the now announced BT 5.0 spec.
> 
> Here is a fuller description of the justification for removing the headphone 
> jack and the Airpod tech and design.
> 
> Inside iPhone 7: Why Apple Killed The Headphone Jack - BuzzFeed News 
> https://t.co/TV2Kps3Mvz 
> 
> On 8 Sep 2016, at 9:15 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
> 
> Yeah not much was said but it sounds like they are more wireless than blue 
> tooth. They talked trach about blue tooth. I mean just to say that they 
> didn't seem keen to use it. So I guess it's some kind of wireless like 
> wireless headphones and keyboards use. Which for distance is much better. Leo 
> Laporte and Andy Anatco were pissed about the jack. They kept insisting that 
> they could have kept it. But that would mean the phone would have to be wider 
> at best. Right? AAlso I agree with Shiller time to cut the cord. Cords always 
> tangle especially the cheep spegetty cord like Apple themselves use for the 
> ear pods. Or you could axidentally step on them and break something like I've 
> done to my Bose OE2I head phone kable. Stuff like that. I agree it's not fare 
> for those that have bought mad expensive stuff that is corded but oh well se 
> la vi. At least they give ya an adaptor.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 6:46 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
> 
> Indeed it has and no real surprises.
> The headphones socket has gone to make way for another speaker - thus stereo 
> speakers which should dramatically improve the sound of the phone - and that 
> can only be a plus.
> According to the blurb I read the iPhone comes with two very nice additions, 
> a lightning dock to 3.5MM headphones adapter and a set of Airbuds, 
> interesting to know whether these use AirPlay, Bluetooth or yet another 
> standard? I wasn’t presented with much information on them.
> No mention of atpX unfortunately, at least we have the dock where we can plug 
> in DAC’s if better sound is what we’re after or we have AirPlay.
> I’ll still be holding onto my iPhone 6 having spent a small fortune on the 
> Arcam DAC .
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tim Noonan
> Consultant  Speaker  Coach
> 
> Phone:   +61 419 779 669
> Email:   t...@timnoonan.com.au
> Skype:   VoiceReadings
> Twitter: twitter.com/TimNoonan
> 
> Coaching & Consulting:www.timnoonan.com.au
> Inspirational Speaking:www.visionarycommunications.com.au
> Gemwater Bottles:www.timnoonan.com.au/water
> Voice Readings:www.voicereadings.com
> 
> 

Re: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced

[Mary Otten]

Airplay requires Wi-Fi. I found that out the hard way, when I tried to stream 
something to my airplay enabled stereo from my phone which was on LTE at the 
time, not Wi-Fi. No joy.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2016, at 5:58 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Hmm, interesting.
> I have seen AirPlay devices that are around which are in perfect sync with 
> Airplay - that is to say there’s no delay between source and target when 
> streaming - so I thought Apple may have perhaps used that method.
> Then again AirPlay streaming does take a fair amount of power so perhaps 
> that’s why Apple chose Bluetooth.
> 
>> On 8 Sep 2016, at 10:53 AM, Tim Noonan  wrote:
>> 
>> The Airpots are still using Bluetooth, but wrapped in all sorts of Apple 
>> secret sauce.
>> 
>> Probably some aspects from the now announced BT 5.0 spec.
>> 
>> Here is a fuller description of the justification for removing the headphone 
>> jack and the Airpod tech and design.
>> 
>> Inside iPhone 7: Why Apple Killed The Headphone Jack - BuzzFeed News 
>> https://t.co/TV2Kps3Mvz 
>> 
>> On 8 Sep 2016, at 9:15 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah not much was said but it sounds like they are more wireless than blue 
>> tooth. They talked trach about blue tooth. I mean just to say that they 
>> didn't seem keen to use it. So I guess it's some kind of wireless like 
>> wireless headphones and keyboards use. Which for distance is much better. 
>> Leo Laporte and Andy Anatco were pissed about the jack. They kept insisting 
>> that they could have kept it. But that would mean the phone would have to be 
>> wider at best. Right? AAlso I agree with Shiller time to cut the cord. Cords 
>> always tangle especially the cheep spegetty cord like Apple themselves use 
>> for the ear pods. Or you could axidentally step on them and break something 
>> like I've done to my Bose OE2I head phone kable. Stuff like that. I agree 
>> it's not fare for those that have bought mad expensive stuff that is corded 
>> but oh well se la vi. At least they give ya an adaptor.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 6:46 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: So the new iPhone 7 has been announced
>> 
>> Indeed it has and no real surprises.
>> The headphones socket has gone to make way for another speaker - thus stereo 
>> speakers which should dramatically improve the sound of the phone - and that 
>> can only be a plus.
>> According to the blurb I read the iPhone comes with two very nice additions, 
>> a lightning dock to 3.5MM headphones adapter and a set of Airbuds, 
>> interesting to know whether these use AirPlay, Bluetooth or yet another 
>> standard? I wasn’t presented with much information on them.
>> No mention of atpX unfortunately, at least we have the dock where we can 
>> plug in DAC’s if better sound is what we’re after or we have AirPlay.
>> I’ll still be holding onto my iPhone 6 having spent a small fortune on the 
>> Arcam DAC .
>> 
>> **
>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>> halfwits in this world behind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Noonan
>> Consultant  Speaker  Coach
>> 
>> Phone:   +61 419 779 669
>> Email:   t...@timnoonan.com.au
>> Skype:   VoiceReadings
>> Twitter: twitter.com/TimNoonan
>> 
>> Coaching & Consulting:www.timnoonan.com.au
>> Inspirational Speaking:www.visionarycommunications.com.au
>> Gemwater Bottles:www.timnoonan.com.au/water
>> Voice Readings:www.voicereadings.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

Well, there's one echo. Then there is the tap and the dot. All three Alexa, but 
the echo is the largest one, the only one I have. Based on the size alone, I 
would expect it to be the best of the three with fidelity as well.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:59 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Depends on what Echo you’re talking about as there are 3 models.
> 
>> On 25 Aug 2016, at 10:55 AM, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Is that echo thing work with premium accounts only on Spotify? Or will it 
>> work with the free one? I can't imagine playing  The highest quality premium 
>> streams on an echo, because it doesn't have the Fidelity to warrant that. No 
>> stereo. I mean it's OK for what it is. But if I were serious about music 
>> listening other than just as a background thing in the kitchen, I wouldn't 
>> use an echo.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Peter Russillo <plrussi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys, another idea:  If you can buy an Amazon Echo, you can set it up to 
>>> play Spotify if you have a premium account; with the Echo you ask it to 
>>> play (name of album) on Spotify; if it finds it it'll play it through the 
>>> Echo; I use that and like it; thanks.
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Dane Trethowan
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:46 PM
>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: The evolution of Spotify
>>> 
>>> I’ve never bothered with Apple Music so I’m wondering can it play Music 
>>> offline as Spotify can?
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Aug 2016, at 10:21 AM, Brian Olesen <br...@blindkom.dk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I'm happy with Apple Music as well.
>>>> Wish many of those services could be better at guessing what you mean when
>>>> you type.
>>>> Names and titles can be pretty hard to name correctly.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>>>> Fra: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] På vegne af Anders
>>>> Holmberg
>>>> Sendt: 25. august 2016 00:02
>>>> Til: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>>>> Emne: Re: The evolution of Spotify
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> I am not sure.
>>>> But as long as people are satisfied with what they use its ok for me.
>>>> I am happy with apple music and thats ok for me if someone is satisfied 
>>>> with
>>>> spotify.
>>>> /A
>>> 
>>> **
>>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>>> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

Is that echo thing work with premium accounts only on Spotify? Or will it work 
with the free one? I can't imagine playing  The highest quality premium streams 
on an echo, because it doesn't have the Fidelity to warrant that. No stereo. I 
mean it's OK for what it is. But if I were serious about music listening other 
than just as a background thing in the kitchen, I wouldn't use an echo.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Peter Russillo  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys, another idea:  If you can buy an Amazon Echo, you can set it up to 
> play Spotify if you have a premium account; with the Echo you ask it to play 
> (name of album) on Spotify; if it finds it it'll play it through the Echo; I 
> use that and like it; thanks.
> 
> Peter
> 
> -Original Message- From: Dane Trethowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:46 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: The evolution of Spotify
> 
> I’ve never bothered with Apple Music so I’m wondering can it play Music 
> offline as Spotify can?
> 
>> On 25 Aug 2016, at 10:21 AM, Brian Olesen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I'm happy with Apple Music as well.
>> Wish many of those services could be better at guessing what you mean when
>> you type.
>> Names and titles can be pretty hard to name correctly.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> 
>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>> Fra: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] På vegne af Anders
>> Holmberg
>> Sendt: 25. august 2016 00:02
>> Til: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Emne: Re: The evolution of Spotify
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am not sure.
>> But as long as people are satisfied with what they use its ok for me.
>> I am happy with apple music and thats ok for me if someone is satisfied with
>> spotify.
>> /A
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

X definitely. You can download all kinds of Apple Music. When you stop 
subscribing, of course, you can't play that anymore. I'm sure that would also 
be true with Spotify.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> I’ve never bothered with Apple Music so I’m wondering can it play Music 
> offline as Spotify can?
> 
>> On 25 Aug 2016, at 10:21 AM, Brian Olesen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I'm happy with Apple Music as well.
>> Wish many of those services could be better at guessing what you mean when
>> you type.
>> Names and titles can be pretty hard to name correctly.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> 
>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>> Fra: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] På vegne af Anders
>> Holmberg
>> Sendt: 25. august 2016 00:02
>> Til: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Emne: Re: The evolution of Spotify
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I am not sure.
>> But as long as people are satisfied with what they use its ok for me.
>> I am happy with apple music and thats ok for me if someone is satisfied with
>> spotify.
>> /A
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

Ouch! I'd go broke. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> $5 per cup at the most yep.
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2016, at 6:22 AM, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Coffee must be seriously expensive in Australia! 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 2016, at 10:59 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I like my premium quality music particularly when I have good quality sound 
>>> equipment to enjoy it through so - to me - its worth the money and that 
>>> only equates to 4 cups of coffee per month for both services.
>>> 
>>>> On 23 Aug 2016, at 3:54 AM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Its to much to pay for two services for me.
>>>> But i would if i had money pay for Tidal.
>>>> /A
>>>>> On 22 Aug 2016, at 01:15, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> That's the topic I'm thinking about yes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've listened to "Soft Rock" in the background on Spotify for 3 hours 
>>>>> this morning and not one repeat, wish I could say the same for Radiotunes.
>>>>> The quality is slightly better with Spotify, not as processed sound but 
>>>>> both are very good.
>>>>> I'm subscribed to radiotunes and Spotify so I think I'll keep both for 
>>>>> the moment and be blessed that I have both Spotify and Radiotunes at my 
>>>>> service though I don't think I'll be bothering with Pandora any longer.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 22/08/2016 7:41 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Jane, I know you are a RadioTunes subscriber. Are you considering 
>>>>>> dumping that in favor of Spotify? My brief look at Spotify recently let 
>>>>>> me to believe that RadioTunes was going to offer a greater variety of 
>>>>>> "radio stations" such as several classical and several smooth jazz. It 
>>>>>> look like Spotify just had one for each genre, which isn't enough. Of 
>>>>>> course I know you can do artists and albums etc. But if I just want a 
>>>>>> genre playing in the background while I can't necessarily access the 
>>>>>> phone, I think I'll still keep radio tunes.
>>>>>> Mary
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you've not taken a serious look at the Spotify Music platform in a 
>>>>>>> good while - and you like your music just the way you want it and not 
>>>>>>> how your local radio station wants it - then take a good look at the 
>>>>>>> modern Spotify.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I won't go into all the changes I noticed since I last saw it before 
>>>>>>> today but the changes are numerous and these changes have really given 
>>>>>>> me something to think about regarding the other Music services I'm 
>>>>>>> subscribed to, it might very well be that you'll find that Spotify will 
>>>>>>> provide your each and every need for your music listening habits. 
>>>>>>> particularly if you're a Spotify Premium user.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I used the Spotify IOS App to do my exploration, I found accessibility 
>>>>>>> to be first class.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Right now I'm listening to the "Soft Rock" playlist on Spotify through 
>>>>>>> a Spotify connect device, the Sangean WRF28D portable radio.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Connecting the device wasn't hard to do, I just selected Spotify from 
>>>>>>> the Source list for the radio using the Undok App, I then opened the 
>>>>>>> Spotify App from Undok and used the Connect icon at the bottom of the 
>>>>>>> screen to locate the radio, the music started playing through it when I 
>>>>>>> double-tapped the "Play" icon.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> **
>>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>>> halfwits in this world behind.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

Oh good deal. On the Mac App Store? Am away from my Mac for a few days. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2016, at 12:39 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Actually there’s some good news on the Spotify and computer front, you can 
> access spotify on a Mac though not through the native Spotify App, there’s a 
> very good piece of software that accesses multiple Subscription based music 
> services such as Pandora, Spotify and Google Music, the App is called 
> Musicality.
> I’ve not tried this App with Radiotunes yet.
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2016, at 3:55 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Welcome to the club.
>> /A
>>> On 22 Aug 2016, at 02:24, Brian Olesen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Dane,
>>> Although spotify seam to work nice on Sonos and iOS it's still a very 
>>> complicated matter to use with an ordinary pc.
>>> Shame on them.
>>> Therefor I whent appleMusic.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
>>> Fra: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] På vegne af Dane 
>>> Trethowan
>>> Sendt: 21. august 2016 22:09
>>> Til: PC Audio Discussion List 
>>> Emne: The evolution of Spotify
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> If you've not taken a serious look at the Spotify Music platform in a 
>>> good while - and you like your music just the way you want it and not 
>>> how your local radio station wants it - then take a good look at the 
>>> modern Spotify.
>>> 
>>> I won't go into all the changes I noticed since I last saw it before 
>>> today but the changes are numerous and these changes have really given 
>>> me something to think about regarding the other Music services I'm 
>>> subscribed to, it might very well be that you'll find that Spotify will 
>>> provide your each and every need for your music listening habits. 
>>> particularly if you're a Spotify Premium user.
>>> 
>>> I used the Spotify IOS App to do my exploration, I found accessibility 
>>> to be first class.
>>> 
>>> Right now I'm listening to the "Soft Rock" playlist on Spotify through a 
>>> Spotify connect device, the Sangean WRF28D portable radio.
>>> 
>>> Connecting the device wasn't hard to do, I just selected Spotify from 
>>> the Source list for the radio using the Undok App, I then opened the 
>>> Spotify App from Undok and used the Connect icon at the bottom of the 
>>> screen to locate the radio, the music started playing through it when I 
>>> double-tapped the "Play" icon.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

Coffee must be seriously expensive in Australia! 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2016, at 10:59 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> I like my premium quality music particularly when I have good quality sound 
> equipment to enjoy it through so - to me - its worth the money and that only 
> equates to 4 cups of coffee per month for both services.
> 
>> On 23 Aug 2016, at 3:54 AM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Its to much to pay for two services for me.
>> But i would if i had money pay for Tidal.
>> /A
>>> On 22 Aug 2016, at 01:15, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's the topic I'm thinking about yes.
>>> 
>>> I've listened to "Soft Rock" in the background on Spotify for 3 hours this 
>>> morning and not one repeat, wish I could say the same for Radiotunes.
>>> The quality is slightly better with Spotify, not as processed sound but 
>>> both are very good.
>>> I'm subscribed to radiotunes and Spotify so I think I'll keep both for the 
>>> moment and be blessed that I have both Spotify and Radiotunes at my service 
>>> though I don't think I'll be bothering with Pandora any longer.
>>> 
>>>> On 22/08/2016 7:41 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>>> Hi Jane, I know you are a RadioTunes subscriber. Are you considering 
>>>> dumping that in favor of Spotify? My brief look at Spotify recently let me 
>>>> to believe that RadioTunes was going to offer a greater variety of "radio 
>>>> stations" such as several classical and several smooth jazz. It look like 
>>>> Spotify just had one for each genre, which isn't enough. Of course I know 
>>>> you can do artists and albums etc. But if I just want a genre playing in 
>>>> the background while I can't necessarily access the phone, I think I'll 
>>>> still keep radio tunes.
>>>> Mary
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 21, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you've not taken a serious look at the Spotify Music platform in a 
>>>>> good while - and you like your music just the way you want it and not how 
>>>>> your local radio station wants it - then take a good look at the modern 
>>>>> Spotify.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I won't go into all the changes I noticed since I last saw it before 
>>>>> today but the changes are numerous and these changes have really given me 
>>>>> something to think about regarding the other Music services I'm 
>>>>> subscribed to, it might very well be that you'll find that Spotify will 
>>>>> provide your each and every need for your music listening habits. 
>>>>> particularly if you're a Spotify Premium user.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I used the Spotify IOS App to do my exploration, I found accessibility to 
>>>>> be first class.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Right now I'm listening to the "Soft Rock" playlist on Spotify through a 
>>>>> Spotify connect device, the Sangean WRF28D portable radio.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Connecting the device wasn't hard to do, I just selected Spotify from the 
>>>>> Source list for the radio using the Undok App, I then opened the Spotify 
>>>>> App from Undok and used the Connect icon at the bottom of the screen to 
>>>>> locate the radio, the music started playing through it when I 
>>>>> double-tapped the "Play" icon.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: The evolution of Spotify

[Mary Otten]

 Hi Jane, I know you are a RadioTunes subscriber. Are you considering dumping 
that in favor of Spotify? My brief look at Spotify recently let me to believe 
that RadioTunes was going to offer a greater variety of "radio stations" such 
as several classical and several smooth jazz. It look like Spotify just had one 
for each genre, which isn't enough. Of course I know you can do artists and 
albums etc. But if I just want a genre playing in the background while I can't 
necessarily access the phone, I think I'll still keep radio tunes.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2016, at 1:08 PM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> If you've not taken a serious look at the Spotify Music platform in a good 
> while - and you like your music just the way you want it and not how your 
> local radio station wants it - then take a good look at the modern Spotify.
> 
> I won't go into all the changes I noticed since I last saw it before today 
> but the changes are numerous and these changes have really given me something 
> to think about regarding the other Music services I'm subscribed to, it might 
> very well be that you'll find that Spotify will provide your each and every 
> need for your music listening habits. particularly if you're a Spotify 
> Premium user.
> 
> I used the Spotify IOS App to do my exploration, I found accessibility to be 
> first class.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to the "Soft Rock" playlist on Spotify through a 
> Spotify connect device, the Sangean WRF28D portable radio.
> 
> Connecting the device wasn't hard to do, I just selected Spotify from the 
> Source list for the radio using the Undok App, I then opened the Spotify App 
> from Undok and used the Connect icon at the bottom of the screen to locate 
> the radio, the music started playing through it when I double-tapped the 
> "Play" icon.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Bowers And Wilkins MM1 Computer Speakers

[Mary Otten]

That is certainly true about the MM one and sound projection. They do sound 
best when you're sitting at your desk with the speakers appropriately placed. 
But, when you are in that position, they really are awesome. I have never heard 
the a-seven. But I'm sure it must be very good. I have never heard a bad 
speaker from Bowers and Wilkins.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Yep fair point about the “Standby” issue unless something could trigger them 
> through the USB port connection perhaps? I’ll do some research on that later 
> on today.
> 
> You’re right about opinion on sound being very subjective .  The one 
> thing I’ll say about the M1’s from hearing them that often is that they’re 
> not the type of speaker for a lounge room - meaning they’re not good at 
> projecting sound too far - so obviously they’re meant to enjoy good Hi-Fi 
> sound with you sitting nearly in front of them at your computer desk with the 
> M1’s sitting either side of you pounding up the rich sound.
> 
> On the other hand - if you want something that projects sound far and wide - 
> and sounds as good at one end of the house as it does the other - then 
> something like the A7 might be the go, the A7 I have myself and it also hooks 
> up to the USB port of your computer which is a great touch for a speaker 
> system.
> 
> 
>> On 22 Jul 2016, at 8:25 AM, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, opinion of sound is always quite subjective, but I think the BMW M1 is 
>> a wonderful speaker. For their size, they are downright amazing. They are a 
>> small desk top speaker. And yes, even though I have left mine on 
>> occasionally for quite some time, and the right speaker did get rather warm, 
>> no damage apparently resulted from that. I don't honestly know if there is 
>> some kind of sleep or standby mode. It could also be even if there is one, 
>> that the occasional sound coming through my Mac, such as a mail notification 
>> or whatever, would've been enough to keep triggering the speakers even when 
>> I was not actually using the Mac.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 12:04 PM, chris ramsay <cram...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> mary what is your opinion of the sound of the b and w speakers. 
>>> I think i'd be interested.  Chris
>>> - Original Message - From: "Mary Otten" <maryot...@comcast.net>
>>> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 2:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Bowers And Wilkins MM1 Computer Speakers
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This beaker containing all the amplification stuff does get hot. If you 
>>> leave it on for a long time. If you just turn it off when you're not using 
>>> it, it's fine. But if you forget and leave it on for a long time as I have 
>>> done on occasion, yes, it does get hot.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi there!
>>>> 
>>>> I know that people on this list have these speakers and I’m saving for a 
>>>> pair myself.
>>>> 
>>>> So to my question, I read another review on these fine speakers which 
>>>> states that the speakers get hot after use.
>>>> 
>>>> Well I’ve seen and listened to them enough and I’ve never noticed any real 
>>>> heat generation from them though to be perfectly fair I’ve never used a 
>>>> pair over a long period of time in a home environment so I put the 
>>>> question to you all.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m sure the MM1’s generate a little heat but - as I’ve seen them thus far 
>>>> - no more than body heat type temperature.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> **
>>>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>>>> halfwits in this world behind.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Bowers And Wilkins MM1 Computer Speakers

[Mary Otten]

Well, opinion of sound is always quite subjective, but I think the BMW M1 is a 
wonderful speaker. For their size, they are downright amazing. They are a small 
desk top speaker. And yes, even though I have left mine on occasionally for 
quite some time, and the right speaker did get rather warm, no damage 
apparently resulted from that. I don't honestly know if there is some kind of 
sleep or standby mode. It could also be even if there is one, that the 
occasional sound coming through my Mac, such as a mail notification or 
whatever, would've been enough to keep triggering the speakers even when I was 
not actually using the Mac.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 12:04 PM, chris ramsay <cram...@cox.net> wrote:
> 
>   mary what is your opinion of the sound of the b and w speakers. 
> I think i'd be interested.  Chris
> - Original Message ----- From: "Mary Otten" <maryot...@comcast.net>
> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Bowers And Wilkins MM1 Computer Speakers
> 
> 
> This beaker containing all the amplification stuff does get hot. If you leave 
> it on for a long time. If you just turn it off when you're not using it, it's 
> fine. But if you forget and leave it on for a long time as I have done on 
> occasion, yes, it does get hot.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there!
>> 
>> I know that people on this list have these speakers and I’m saving for a 
>> pair myself.
>> 
>> So to my question, I read another review on these fine speakers which states 
>> that the speakers get hot after use.
>> 
>> Well I’ve seen and listened to them enough and I’ve never noticed any real 
>> heat generation from them though to be perfectly fair I’ve never used a pair 
>> over a long period of time in a home environment so I put the question to 
>> you all.
>> 
>> I’m sure the MM1’s generate a little heat but - as I’ve seen them thus far - 
>> no more than body heat type temperature.
>> 
>> 
>> **
>> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
>> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Bowers And Wilkins MM1 Computer Speakers

[Mary Otten]

This beaker containing all the amplification stuff does get hot. If you leave 
it on for a long time. If you just turn it off when you're not using it, it's 
fine. But if you forget and leave it on for a long time as I have done on 
occasion, yes, it does get hot.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> I know that people on this list have these speakers and I’m saving for a pair 
> myself.
> 
> So to my question, I read another review on these fine speakers which states 
> that the speakers get hot after use.
> 
> Well I’ve seen and listened to them enough and I’ve never noticed any real 
> heat generation from them though to be perfectly fair I’ve never used a pair 
> over a long period of time in a home environment so I put the question to you 
> all.
> 
> I’m sure the MM1’s generate a little heat but - as I’ve seen them thus far - 
> no more than body heat type temperature.
> 
> 
> **
> Those of a positive and enquiring frame of mind will leave the rest of the 
> halfwits in this world behind.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Article: If you kill the headphone jack, you need to replace it with something better | Ars Technica

[Mary Otten]

My recently purchased voyager legend has much much less of a delay than
my older voyager pro. Same thing on android with Nexus 6 and those
pieces.

NMary

Re: B speakers arrived finally

[Mary Otten]

Well, here in the town where I live, you definitely have to visit a
high end store to get the brands you named. Those Magnolia shops or
rooms are limited to the Best Buy stores where there are big bucks in
the surrounding community. In fact, the one store here that had B is
closed. So if you want 'em, on line is it.


Mary

Re: B speakers arrived finally

[Mary Otten]

Certain Best Buy stores have the Magnolia room, which is a high end
hi-fi, probably other stuff too like high end a/v receivers, area in
the store. Our local store doesn't have that. It may be that these high
end rooms inupscale shopping areas have some B stuff. 

Mary

Re: B speakers arrived finally

[Mary Otten]

I know what you mean about the take over. If the company that took them
over is smart, they'll let them alone to do what they do best. Still,
glad I got the m1 and the p7. 

Mary

Re: B speakers arrived finally

[Mary Otten]

I hope you can manage to get your remote control working. I prefer it immensely 
to the controls on the speaker, because they have no tactile indication, and 
because you have to reach for the speaker in order to use those controls. Plus, 
with the remote you can move among tracks and stop playback. It's a very handy 
little unit.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2016, at 8:40 AM, André van Deventer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who might still remember – my pair of B mm1 speakers
> finally arrived today.
> 
> 
> 
> Getting started was rather straight forward.   I simply connected up the two
> speakers, connected it up to the power supply and plugged in the USB port.
> Was a bit of a problem finding the power button on the side of the active
> speaker but when I finally found it by accident, the computer recognised it
> immediately and installed the windows drivers.  It now shows up in my audio
> devices as mm1.
> 
> 
> 
> The two rather small speakers are surprisingly heavy for their size and
> extremely solidly constructed.   There are two buttons on the left side of
> the speaker for volume control and one on the right side of the speaker
> which is the power on button.  All of these buttons must be physically press
> so they give tactile feedback.   But there is now physicale indication where
> they are located.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a basic little remote control that comes with the unit which I have
> not yet used.  You have to pul out f small tab that keeps the battery door
> from closing.  I messed up things a bit so the greatest part of the tab
> broke off!  Still have to get the rest out.
> 
> 
> 
> The sound that comes out of these little speakers is quite astonishing.
> However, if you are looking for booming bass and screeching highs as seem to
> be the case with much of the modern equipment, you are going to be very
> disappointed.  The sound of the B is subtle  that is the only way I can
> describe it.  All the frequencies are there that you would need.  And the
> sound is wonderfully clear.
> 
> 
> 
> Am still running some tests so will get back later if anyone is interested.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> Andre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Bluetooth headset?

[Mary Otten]

Well, this is  just the Apple TV and the TV. We're not using that receiver 
anymore, since we don't have the other equipment that necessitated  having that 
multi room receiver. Now it's just a TV and, sound bar HDMI cable and an 
optical cable. That's it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2016, at 7:05 PM, Rick Alfaro <rick.alf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Mary, I had the exact same issue but I was connected via HDMI from the Apple
> TV to my receiver. I solved the problem by still using HDMI, but directly to
> the TV instead of the receiver. It seems that some receivers have this
> issue. I never had the problem when I had a Denon receiver but recently got
> a new Onkyo receiver that exhibits this problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Rick Alfaro
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2016 8:01 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List <pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Subject: Re: Bluetooth headset?
> 
> Well, apparently there is no such  ability with the Samsung TV. I have to
> rely on my husband but he is telling me there is an anything like that in
> any of the menus. Not too surprising I suppose.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On May 7, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I had a similar issue for a while with my Denon AVR2113 surround--sound
> receiver connected to my computer.  I was able to resolve it by turning off
> power management at the computer end for the HDMI port.
>> 
>> 
>> Bluetooth headsets for a small price and I'm imagining here you're not
> wanting great quality sound, more like reasonable quality sound.
>> 
>> 
>> Well the Logitech H800 will give you that sound if you're just wanting to
> listen through the Headset itself and not use it for chatting using
> Bluetooth, when you do that the sound is absolutely disgusting by today's
> standards.
>> 
>> 
>> I'm sure I've pointed out one of many options available.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 8/05/2016 8:48 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> I recently got a fourth generation Apple TV and connected it to a Samsung
> TV which is connected to a Klipsch sound bar via optical cable. After some
> experimentation, including switching out the cable and trying a different
> and older TV to make sure the problem wasn't our newer TV, I have determined
> that there is an issue with voiceover cutting out when there isn't already
> audio playing through the sound bar. That is, if there is a TV show or some
> music or whatever going through the Apple TV to the sound bar, and I use the
> included remote or a Bluetooth keyboard to move around on the Apple TV and
> hear what it is saying with voiceover, there is no problem. Voiceover does
> not cut out. However, if there is no audio streaming through the sound bar
> from the Apple TV, then voiceover does cut out and the first words are
> always missed. Someone on an Apple related list said he had the same problem
> and solved it by using a Bluetooth headset. The only Bluetooth headset I
> have is a single ear piece Plantronics, probably about five years old, which
> I use on my iPhone when I'm out. This guy thinks that the issue is some kind
> of energy saving thing in the sound bar that doesn't kick in in time to
> catch the first few syllables are words that voiceover is saying.  I'm all
> in favor of energy savings, but really. This is disgusting. I wonder if
> anybody has a Bluetooth headset solution that won't cost very much. I have
> really nice   Headsets, but none of them are Bluetooth. I do not intend to
> buy the new ones from BMW which cost $400. Smile.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> **
>> Those who don't need help are prepared to help themselves
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Bluetooth headset?

[Mary Otten]

Well, apparently there is no such  ability with the Samsung TV. I have to rely 
on my husband but he is telling me there is an anything like that in any of the 
menus. Not too surprising I suppose.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> I had a similar issue for a while with my Denon AVR2113 surround--sound 
> receiver connected to my computer.  I was able to resolve it by turning off 
> power management at the computer end for the HDMI port.
> 
> 
> Bluetooth headsets for a small price and I'm imagining here you're not 
> wanting great quality sound, more like reasonable quality sound.
> 
> 
> Well the Logitech H800 will give you that sound if you're just wanting to 
> listen through the Headset itself and not use it for chatting using 
> Bluetooth, when you do that the sound is absolutely disgusting by today's 
> standards.
> 
> 
> I'm sure I've pointed out one of many options available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8/05/2016 8:48 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> I recently got a fourth generation Apple TV and connected it to a Samsung TV 
>> which is connected to a Klipsch sound bar via optical cable. After some 
>> experimentation, including switching out the cable and trying a different 
>> and older TV to make sure the problem wasn't our newer TV, I have determined 
>> that there is an issue with voiceover cutting out when there isn't already 
>> audio playing through the sound bar. That is, if there is a TV show or some 
>> music or whatever going through the Apple TV to the sound bar, and I use the 
>> included remote or a Bluetooth keyboard to move around on the Apple TV and 
>> hear what it is saying with voiceover, there is no problem. Voiceover does 
>> not cut out. However, if there is no audio streaming through the sound bar 
>> from the Apple TV, then voiceover does cut out and the first words are 
>> always missed. Someone on an Apple related list said he had the same problem 
>> and solved it by using a Bluetooth headset. The only Bluetooth headset I 
>> have is a single ear piece Plantronics, probably about five years old, which 
>> I use on my iPhone when I'm out. This guy thinks that the issue is some kind 
>> of energy saving thing in the sound bar that doesn't kick in in time to 
>> catch the first few syllables are words that voiceover is saying.  I'm all 
>> in favor of energy savings, but really. This is disgusting. I wonder if 
>> anybody has a Bluetooth headset solution that won't cost very much. I have 
>> really nice   Headsets, but none of them are Bluetooth. I do not intend to 
>> buy the new ones from BMW which cost $400. Smile.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> 
> **
> Those who don't need help are prepared to help themselves
> 

Bluetooth headset?

[Mary Otten]

I recently got a fourth generation Apple TV and connected it to a Samsung TV 
which is connected to a Klipsch sound bar via optical cable. After some 
experimentation, including switching out the cable and trying a different and 
older TV to make sure the problem wasn't our newer TV, I have determined that 
there is an issue with voiceover cutting out when there isn't already audio 
playing through the sound bar. That is, if there is a TV show or some music or 
whatever going through the Apple TV to the sound bar, and I use the included 
remote or a Bluetooth keyboard to move around on the Apple TV and hear what it 
is saying with voiceover, there is no problem. Voiceover does not cut out. 
However, if there is no audio streaming through the sound bar from the Apple 
TV, then voiceover does cut out and the first words are always missed. Someone 
on an Apple related list said he had the same problem and solved it by using a 
Bluetooth headset. The only Bluetooth headset I have is a single ear piece 
Plantronics, probably about five years old, which I use on my iPhone when I'm 
out. This guy thinks that the issue is some kind of energy saving thing in the 
sound bar that doesn't kick in in time to catch the first few syllables are 
words that voiceover is saying.  I'm all in favor of energy savings, but 
really. This is disgusting. I wonder if anybody has a Bluetooth headset 
solution that won't cost very much. I have really nice   Headsets, but none of 
them are Bluetooth. I do not intend to buy the new ones from BMW which cost 
$400. Smile.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

Re: File Browser IOS App

[Mary Otten]

Thanks.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 16, 2016, at 7:41 PM, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> 
> Ah sorry about that the link to the App I'm using is FileBrowser - Access 
> files on remote computers by Stratospherix Ltd
> https://appsto.re/au/XFxVv.i
> 
> 
> Sent from Dane Trethowan's iPad Mini 4
> 
>> On 17 Apr 2016, at 12:21 PM, Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> An app store search of file browser brought up several apps with this
>> name. Who is the developer? Or what other identifying feature can you
>> provide to help identify the app?
>> 
>> Mary
> 
> 

Re: File Browser IOS App

[Mary Otten]

An app store search of file browser brought up several apps with this
name. Who is the developer? Or what other identifying feature can you
provide to help identify the app?

Mary

Re: SV: SV: Apple's iPhone 7 WILL dump the headphone socket | DailyMail Online

[Mary Otten]

Well, here is a link to Jonathan's well-written post for those who want
another perspective. I think he makes good points and I do not see the
advantage at this time of dumping the jack. A lot of what ifs don't cut
it, and really, vr audio? If the choice is between vr audio or some
other equivalent of eye candy for the sighted, I'll take convenience
and inclusivity. I know, that puts me in th
minority.
http://mosen.org/an-iphone-without-a-headphone-jack-the-accessibility-ra
mifications/

Mary

Re: SV: SV: SV: Apple's iPhone 7 WILL dump the headphone socket | DailyMail Online

[Mary Otten]

I recall something in the past with an adapter and a camera kit and the
iPad. Don't remember details, and it certainly wasn't anything like
what you get on a phone or tablet that has a built-in slot such as my
husband's HTC android phone has. Pop in the card and go. 

Mary

Re: SV: SV: SV: Apple's iPhone 7 WILL dump the headphone socket | DailyMail Online

[Mary Otten]

Lots of brands don't have the sd card slot. I would also like that, but
Apple have never had it, and I'm not holding my breath.

Mary

Re: SV: SV: Apple's iPhone 7 WILL dump the headphone socket | DailyMail Online

[Mary Otten]

The problem with all this forward thinking is that it leaves the
hearing impaired out. Jonathan Mosen has done some very good writing on
this topic. I personally have the equipment to deal with the loss of
the headphone jack. But in thinking of what it will mean for others, I
think it is a stupid idea at this time and, if it is just to make the
damned phone a hair thinner, it is clearly not worth it and is just
another  money-making angle for Apple. But this one is coming at the
expense of a fairly  large and growing segment of the population.

Mary

Re: controls on B mm-1 speakers

[Mary Otten]

I use the mm1 on a Mac, not Windows, so I can't answer anything about
how they interact with Windows or Windows applications. I also rarely
use the actual controls on the speaker, because I find the included
remote a whole lot more convenient. It works perfectly with the Mac for
raising and lowering volume, moving among tracks, pausing and turning
the speakers on and off. 

Mary

Re: controls on B mm-1 speakers

[Mary Otten]

I use the mm1 on a Mac, not Windows, so I can't answer anything about
how they interact with Windows or Windows applications. I also rarely
use the actual controls on the speaker, because I find the included
remote a whole lot more convenient. It works perfectly with the Mac for
raising and lowering volume, moving among tracks, pausing and turning
the speakers on and off. 

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Well, John already reported about most of the controls in his initial
post on this topic. And that certainly helped. There is one side of the
device which could be thought of like the spine of a book. It has no
controls and is completely covered by the leather casing. If you have
the ha-2 lying on a table with that side facing you, on the left end,
from closest to you to furthest away, you have a small knob which turns
the device on with an audible click and adjusts volume up as you turn,
like an old-fashioned radio on/off knob. Moving on that same end but
away from you, you have aan imput which is for I think John said is for
line out to active speakers, but is also for analog in. Not sure how
that works, and I didn't pay attention, since I don't have anything for
that. Then last input on that end is for your headphones.  On the long
side that is furthest away from you, first control on the left is a
button which you can press in and shows the charge level of the device.
Inaccessible, of course. That is the one thing I wish it had, a way to
tell how much charge remains if you can't see the lights. Moving to the
right, you have the two position bass boost switch, and then next to it
moving to the right is the two position high/low gain switch. Finally,
on the right end of the device,  you have, from back to front, a small
usb input, which is for connecting a computer or an android device, a
"regular" usb for connecting Apple i-devices and finally, a 3 position
slider which selects the input, a b or c, corresponding to the analog
in and the two usb ports. 

There are 3 small cables included with the device, a usb to lightning,
one with two small usb plugs on it for the small input on the device
and for a usb to go out on an android device, and finallyone for the
analog. Sorry I never can remember the nomenclature, which is usb b or
a or whatever, but it is obvious when you look at the cables what goes
where. And there is a wall plug and a much longer cable that has a usb
plut that fits into the wall charger, and the other end fits into the
small usb input on the device where you would normally plug in the
android or computer audio source.  You are suppose to be able to charge
your i-phone from this device. I'm not sure how that works. I did have
my ipad plugged in last night, listenig to some music, and it was not
charging, according to voice over. In any case, I don't think I'd want
to use this as a charger for my mobile device and be listening to music
at the same time. Maybe you can't even do that.

There is documentation in print that comes with the device, but I
haven't tried scanning it. It may be on the oppo website in a more or
less accessible form, but I have not looked there either. Hope that
helped. Probably way too long.

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Well, I just received my Oppo ha-2 yesterday and have had a little
chance to play with it with both an android and an i-phone. And I have
to agree with what John has said. It is a really nice piece of gear and
is dead simple to operate. Some years ago, I had purchased a  less
expensive portable headphone amplifier, but it was controlled via
menus. So if you accidentally pressed one of the buttons on the side of
the device, you could get into a menu and really unintentionally mess
things up. This one is totally not like that, as John has stated, and
it makes a huge difference, particularly with the Nexus 6, which is now
a pleasure to use with both sets of phones that I own. And it also
really drives home the difference between the AKG q701, which needs the
high position on the 2 position gain switch, versus the B P7, which
does just fine with the lower gain position.  If you're serious about
music listening through a mobile device and can spend the money, this
is a really good and versatile way to go.

Mary

Re: Sony Android TV Was Apple TV 4th Gen

[Mary Otten]

Interesting. The people I've heard complaining about netflix on set top
boxes don't have issues with it on actual android phones or tablets,
just on the set tops, such as the older google Nexus. So I wonder why
it works on some and not others, especially the nexus brand. There has
been speculation that the app on the set top box is not the same app as
on devices such as nexus 9 tablet, obtained from the playstore. Since I
don't use netflix on my Nexus 6 and don't have an accessible android tv
set top box, I have 0 personal experience in this realm.

Mary

mary

Re: Sony Android TV Was Apple TV 4th Gen

[Mary Otten]

I will be interested to know how you get on with things like netflix
and other non-google things, including that program guide, although
wouldn't your program guide come from your cable or satelite provider,
assuming you have one, of course?

Mary

RE: Sony Android TV Was Apple TV 4th Gen

[Mary Otten]

Hi Rick,

Are you using Kody with the Kody screen reader? I thought that was
accessible, more or less, only on the pc. 

Mary

Re: Sony Android TV Was Apple TV 4th Gen

[Mary Otten]

No, the boxes I'm talking about are set-top boxes, not full tvs. The
Shield, which is the most expensive of the lot, runs $200 or so. The
nexus is the original one from google, and rumor has it that a new one
will be forthcoming this year. It was selling quite cheap over here a
few months back, on clearance, I suspect. And the Metracom, or however
it is spelled, runs around $100 or a tad less on amazon. My husband
actually bought one of them, because he wanted to experiment with Kody.
Again, these are strictly set top boxes, more like the Apple tv in that
respect, rather than being a full tv set. How android tv may differ in
these boxes from android tv in your set, I have no idea. Both the
shield and the metracom are advertised as coming with lolly pop version
of android tv, so it seems like they should be the same, just based on
that, and supposedly the two newer devices are in line for the upgrade
to android 6.0.

Mary

Re: Sony Android TV Was Apple TV 4th Gen

[Mary Otten]

I'm on a very high traffic android list, and there has lately been
discussion of android tv boxes, but not an actual tv set, on that list.
People have had issues making certain services that are not  directly
from google, such as Netflix, work at all with talkback.  Devices
discussed include the nexus, Shield and another one that is something
like metracom, but I'm sure I've got that spelled wrong. How much did
this Sony android set set you back? No pun intended. 

Mary

Re: Apple TV 4th Gen

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,

Your observation about the remote being easy to use is interesting. I
think you are the first one who hasn't encountered a significant
learning curve, especially when it comes  to actually having to type
something in, such as a mixed case alphanumeric password. I'm holding
out for bluetooth keyboard access, which is supposedly coming with the
next major release of tv os, if I can believe what I read in the
mainstream Apple-oriented press. 

That deal where voice over cuts out has happened to me with a 2nd
generation apple tv. It happened a lot and only quit happening when we
experimented and connected the apple tv directly to the hdmi in on our
tv, rather than going through an a/v surround receiver or even a sound
bar. When connected directly to the tv, the voiceover cut out problem
completely disappeared. Unfortunately, that also meant the rest of the
sound from the apple tv went to the tv speakers, which are God awful.
Just food for thought. And I have heard others report varying results
with the voiceover cut out problem. Some have it. Others don't. And I
haven't a clue why.

I do have a question. Can you connect the apple tv 4th generation and
use all of its features without actually having a tv in the mix? As an
example, with my 2nd generation product, it was not possible to watch
netflix unless the tv was actually turned on. Netflix would not play.
There may have been others too, but Netflix is the one I specifically
remember. So even though I didn't need the picture, the tv had to be
physically on, not just the surround receiver and speakers.

Mary

another pair of headphones to consider

[Mary Otten]

Has anybody tried the AKG k712? They apparently came out around the
same time as the B P7. I only ran across them today on the amazon.com
site. Apparently, they are not unlike the q701, in that they are open
back. So you won't make friends if listening in a public place.
Comparison between these and the 701 was generally favorable, with
people prefering the k712 headband and material the ear cups are padded
with. There is a substancial price difference, $350 versus $179 if
memory serves. That's on the U.S. Amazon site. I'd love to try these,
since I have and really like the Q701 already. One commenter said he
thought the q701 sound stage was exagerated. I didsgree, but beauty is
in the ear of the beholder.

Mary

RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Thanks, John. Tax filing time is coming, so I think I know where the
refund money is going. That sounds like a nice versatile device.

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Interesting. I wonder if it would help the sound on my Nexus 6.
Something should!

Oppo makes a pair of headphones that seem to be quite favorably
reviewed, at least by amazon purchasers. These are the pm-3, and they
sell for a cool 400 bucks, so not cheap. One reviewer even compared
them favorably with the P7.

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

I haven't gone to the manufacturers website to check the technical details. On 
the Amazon site, they are described as close back, planar, and magnetic. So 
they may be what you are talking about.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Anders Holmberg <and...@pipkrokodil.se> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I wonder if they’re magnetostatic.
> /A
>> 13 feb. 2016 kl. 19:01 skrev Mary Otten <maryot...@comcast.net>:
>> 
>> Interesting. I wonder if it would help the sound on my Nexus 6.
>> Something should!
>> 
>> Oppo makes a pair of headphones that seem to be quite favorably
>> reviewed, at least by amazon purchasers. These are the pm-3, and they
>> sell for a cool 400 bucks, so not cheap. One reviewer even compared
>> them favorably with the P7.
>> 
>> Mary
> 
> 

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Hi Richard,
A dac can give you better sound from mp3 files. Really, what might be
happening is that the phones are driven better by the amplifier in the
unit, as opposed to the crappy one that is part of most portable
digital devices, but the end result is improved sound.  I use to have a
low end portable amp plus dac that was kind of a pain to operate, and
you could definitely hear the difference with my akg q701 phones.

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Hi John,
So this comes with a short cable that has a lightning connector on one
end and usb on the other which plugs into the headphone amp? Is that
what you were saying? I guess I'm not getting why you'd need two
different inputs into the amp, one for androids and one for i-devices.
I certainly understand that the lightning connector and a usb are
different, but those are the outs on the devices providing the source
audio. When I last had a portable amp with dac was with the old 30-pin
connector, and I can't remember how the cabling worked with that thing,
did I buy an extra cable or what? Getting old isn't for the faint of
heart.

Mary 

Mary

Re: Boson Audio Recorder/Editor/Converter For Mac

[Mary Otten]

No, I have not heard of that one. Don't recall seeing anybody comment
on any of the Mac-related lists I'm on either.

Maybe check the Apple Vis site before you spend your 30 clams.

Mary

Re: Boson Audio Recorder/Editor/Converter For Mac

[Mary Otten]

To be honest, finding the link to send your complaint about
accessibility is a pain in the rear. What I ended up doing was writing
to accessibility at apple. Of course, they don't help directly. But
they did send me a link to the form you have to fill out that leads to
getting the refund. So if you have a problem, I'd start with them. I
probably wouldn't bother for a 2 dollar app. But for 30 bucks, I'd sure
do it. In my case, it was for 2 iBooks that were a total bust, while
the Kindle versions proved totally readable. Go figure.



Mary

Re: Boson Audio Recorder/Editor/Converter For Mac

[Mary Otten]

Well, I hope it works with voice over. You can get a refund if it
proves inaccessible. At least, that it possible with i-device apps that
prove to be inaccessible or iBooks. So I assume it is possible with a
Mac app.

Mary

Re: Arcam MusicBoost

[Mary Otten]

Anders, try to get your hands on one and actually use it before you
spend the money. I hear the audio is really good. But for other things,
anything involving the use of webviews, the experience on Android is
not at all up to the standard you are use to with ios. If you're ok
with not being able to efficiently use the web on your device, and you
don't mind a sub-par experience editing text, then go for it.

I purchased a Nexus 6 because I had heard how great the experience was
now, how much improved over what it was when I bought a Nexus 7 a few
years back. I suppose when you improve from really terrible to just
sort of terrible, you can say it is greatly improved. And the audio on
the 6p is suppose to be really great. But for an overall main device, I
would never, ever have an android phone until they clean up their act
with how talkback works with html and how text editing works and how
the scrolling is not as smooth as with ios and I could go on, but
won't, since this is an audio list.

Mary

Re: Arcam MusicBoost

[Mary Otten]

Oh, I don't do much with the onscreen keyboard except for a few words
of typing filling in forms and such. I dictate anything longer than
that with good effect, and editing the results, when necessary is where
IOS beats the pants off of android on my Nexus device. Try before you
buy when possible is always good advice, and that is especially true if
you have been using a system for years and might take certain things it
does pretty well for granted.

Mary

Re: Arcam MusicBoost

[Mary Otten]

Well, I have to say I'm sorry to hear that about the tight fit. Hard to
believe they would just come out with a product that is made for a
phone which is now a year and a half old and won't fit the current
model. 

Mary

Re: Google Play Music

[Mary Otten]

I haven't tried google music on a pc. I'm not interested in learning
yet another browser with its add in screen access methods, no thanks,
chrome vox. And I don't agree that google music is the best of the
services. I think apple music has it beat. I have tried google music on
an android device, actually two of them, both running marshmallow, and
since I find the android experience much less efficient than the ios
one, my opinion is based in part on that. Apple music on android isn't
all that much fun either. but their selection is greater than google
music's, imho. I have found a lot of stuff on apple music that I
couldn't even search for on google music, given the issues I have on
android with text typing and editing. On the other hand, if you're a
youtube person, you get youtube red or read, not sure how it is
spelled, as part of your google music subscription. So, no ads. I don't
do much youtube, so for me, that wasn't a draw. But the ease of use and
huge selection of out of the way stuff I find on apple music makes it a
big value for me. depends, I guess, on your devices and how you want to
access stuff and what you want to access.

Mary

Re: Google Play Music

[Mary Otten]

I wasn't aware that there is another android-related list for the VI.
I'm familiar with the eyes-free list, which is a google group and has
lots of traffic. I don't see myself giving up iTunes match. I have a
lot of stuff in there, and Apple recently raised the song limit to
match others, so no problem there. I suspect it depends on what you're
looking for as to which service you like better. There were some folk
on the android list, which has a certain anti-apple tone to it rather
often, who admitted that in their view Apple Music had more songs than
Google. But the impression you get from an unsuccessful search or the
opposite undoubtedly contributes to the opinion.  I had spotify for a
while and dropped it. Same for Pandora. My pc is old and not connected
to anything in the house, not even via airfoil. So even if I were
interested in google music from the pc, it wouldn't be this pc. 


Mary

Re: Google Play Music

[Mary Otten]

I figured you meant visually impaired, not 6. The list I am referring
to that is a google group is also for the blind/vi. 

Mary

Re: harmen carden sound sticks II

[Mary Otten]

I've never owned any Kefs, but I've always liked them a lot when I
heard them. Didn't know they made computer speakers. If I didn't have
the M1s, I'd definitely be looking there. 

Mary

Re: Arcam Music Boost

[Mary Otten]

Regarding the chord electronics mojo: I think I'm looking at the same
thing, and they want darned near 600 bucks for it. Yikes! Is that the
one? 

I will wait to see what the reviews on amazon say if and when the case
that is discussed under this thread makes it to amazon in the States.

I know some UK reviewers said it was hard to get the phone in and out
of the case. But my experience with my 6S has been that after you get
it in and out of its case a few times, that does get a bit easier. I
can't see paying that much for a portable DAC, even though it could be
used on android devices as well. StillP $600 is waay more than I
can justify.

Mary

Re: Arcam MusicBoost adds a headphone amp, DAC and battery pack to iPhone 6 | What Hi-Fi?

[Mary Otten]

This sounds most interesting. But am having difficulty finding it in
the States. C'mon google. I thought you were my friend!

Mary

Re: Arcam MusicBoost adds a headphone amp, DAC and battery pack to iPhone 6 | What Hi-Fi?

[Mary Otten]

Well, I guess there is hope for us in the States, since there was a
brief article about the U.S. debut of this product at CES. 

Mary

Re: New Updated CCraine SW Radio

[Mary Otten]

I have such a God awful noise level in this town that there is no way
I'd look at an SW. Too bad. Use to just love SWL-ing and a.m. dx-ing.
But no more. Too damned much interference unless you get way the heck
out of town, and that's not practical. I envy those of you who can
still find stuff on those bands and hope it is worth the listen.

Mary

Re: Plus7 Now Available On Apple TV

[Mary Otten]

Well, this new way of doing things on apple tv means you really can't
go by previous experiences with older models. That is because they now
have an app model rather than a channel model. So gone is the
accessible grid-type layout. The remote is totally different. There is,
as yet, no bt keyboard access, but there is apparently some sort of
work around involving the use of an iPhone. Since I don't have the A tv
4, I didn't pay particular attention to the details. And, with the app
model, it means that who ever develops the app for the channel or group
of channels is free to make it as accessible or not as they wish.
Hopefully, this one you just mentioned will have done the right thing
with regard to implementing accessibility within their app.Netflix
still hasn't managed to make  audio description accessible by the end
user. You have to call them and hope you get a rep with a clue; they
turn it on for you at their end, and then it is on for everybody all
the time on any program that has it, whether they want it or not, e.g.
somebody sighted who doesn't want it is out of luck. 

Hopefully, all this stuff will get ironed out in time, and the
experience will end up being a positive one with more variety and
flexibility than we enjoyed with older versions. I myself am not
running out to buy one. 

Mary