RE: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6908] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-25 Thread Catherine Legg
Yes! The remedy for it, as you put well in another message, is to think about what the practical consequences would actually be. Cheers, Cathy -Original Message- From: Benjamin Udell [mailto:bud...@nyc.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, 24 September 2014 6:27 a.m. To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu

[PEIRCE-L] Fallacy Of Misplaced Essence (FOME)

2014-09-25 Thread Jon Awbrey
Fallacy Of Misplaced Essence (FOME) GR:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14293 CG:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14294 JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14295

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [biosemiotics:6834] Re: Natural Propositions, Chapter 2

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear Clark, lists - But aren't formal and material causes just re-baptized in physics as constants (of laws), as types of forces or particles, or as boundary conditions? Best F Den 22/09/2014 kl. 15.59 skrev Clark Goble cl...@lextek.commailto:cl...@lextek.com : On Sep 21, 2014, at 9:13

Re: [biosemiotics:6943] Re: [PEIRCE-L] Natural Propositions: revised schedule

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear E, G, lists I also have no idea as to how Peirce would pronounce it. I chose dee-see- for these reasons: The C I pronounce as S for the reasons Edwina quotes - in the traditional pronunciation of Latin words, C is generally S before front wovels like I The I I pronounce as EE because that

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6952] Re: Natural Propositions

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear John, lists, I think you're right - Peirce saw thought as an argument chain whose resting points were propositions. Best F Den 22/09/2014 kl. 18.46 skrev John Collier colli...@ukzn.ac.zamailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za : At 01:41 PM 2014-09-13, Frederik wrote: Dear Sung, lists - To take thought

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6961] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear John, lists OK, that clarifies things. Best f Den 23/09/2014 kl. 11.35 skrev John Collier colli...@ukzn.ac.zamailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za : At 10:50 PM 2014-09-21, Frederik wrote: Dear Stan, lists, The problem here is a bit as when Collier thought all the world was in the head - for where

RE: [biosemiotics:6973] RE: [PEIRCE-L] RE: Natural Propositions, Chapter 3.1

2014-09-25 Thread Gary Fuhrman
Clark, yes, that's one reason I've been recommending Kaina Stoicheia as a supplementary text for this seminar, because it's mostly about propositions but also about the New Elements *of the logic of mathematics*. I'm certainly not a mathematician myself, but I don't think one can get a good

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6976] Natural Propositions, Chapter 3.2

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Edwina, lists, In the ten-sign list of the Syllabus, the Dicent Symbolic Legisign is but one of three types of Dicisigns. So you can not identify the two. I discuss the other two, Dicent Indexical Sinsign and Dicent Indexical Sinsign, in the chapter. Best F Den 24/09/2014 kl. 15.16 skrev

[PEIRCE-L] RE: Natural Propositions . Selected Passages

2014-09-25 Thread Gary Fuhrman
Jon, I think it would be better if you would combine the quotes from NP and your comments in a single message. It would also be better if you (and everyone) would send posts only to the list(s), i.e. delete the addresses of individuals from your address field before you send, as that would avoid

Re: [biosemiotics:6973] RE: [PEIRCE-L] RE: Natural Propositions, Chapter 3.1

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear Clark, lists, Den 24/09/2014 kl. 22.17 skrev Clark Goble cl...@lextek.commailto:cl...@lextek.com : On Sep 24, 2014, at 1:16 PM, Gary Richmond gary.richm...@gmail.commailto:gary.richm...@gmail.com wrote: In any event, I'm finding section 4. of New Elements of especial interest and want

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6908] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear C, B, lists - Scares me as well - is this really so widespread among philosophy students? Why don't they study sociology instead, then? And why should we be culturally sensitive at all? We have only reached to where we are now by being INsensitive to a lot of cultural ideas - including

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Natural Propositions

2014-09-25 Thread Jeffrey Brian Downard
Frederik, Lists, You say: Peirce saw thought as an argument chain whose resting points were propositions. For the sake of sorting through some of the disagreements that have been voiced about what kinds of signs or representamens may be found in the physical, chemical, biological or social

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6952] Re: Natural Propositions

2014-09-25 Thread Stephen C. Rose
Signs are sufficiently diffuse and vague as to have an almost spectral entity. I see consciousness as the willed condition in which signs become visible or perceptible and thought as a description of the entire consideration of which this is the start. The next thing that happens is naming. sign

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Beyond the Correspondence Theory of Truth

2014-09-25 Thread Jon Awbrey
Beyond the Correspondence Theory of Truth: HP:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14168 JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14169 HP:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14177

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Beyond the Correspondence Theory of Truth - Kant's polar opposition to chemistry

2014-09-25 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
List, Jon: Kant and chemical semiotics are polar opposites. Kant did not accept the possibility of quantification of chemistry. from: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-science/ In the Preface to the Metaphysical Foundations Kant claims that chemistry, at least as he understood it in

Re: [biosemiotics:6973] RE: [PEIRCE-L] RE: Natural Propositions, Chapter 3.1

2014-09-25 Thread Clark Goble
On Sep 25, 2014, at 8:50 AM, Frederik Stjernfelt stj...@hum.ku.dk wrote: This isn’t to say Heidegger and Peirce are the same. Just that I think the move towards an externalist approach to mind in Heidegger is also made in Peirce. And it’s precisely within the proposition (or more

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6995] Re: Natural Propositions

2014-09-25 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear Gary, lists - This is correct. This is also why not every phase of thought needs consciousness - even if Peirce was very insistent on thought being self-controlled. But he also realized self-control come in many degrees, not all of them necessarily conscious - even if consciousness

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6952] Re: Natural Propositions

2014-09-25 Thread Clark Goble
On Sep 25, 2014, at 8:48 AM, Gary Fuhrman g...@gnusystems.ca wrote: Stephen, Peirce sees conscious thinking as Thought (i.e. a sign) actively taking consciousness and directing it, rather than the other way round, as you here (and most people generally) see it. That’s one reason why

[PEIRCE-L] Kaina Stoicheia 2014

2014-09-25 Thread Jon Awbrey
Peircers, We, at least some of us, have discussed the Kaina Stoicheia on many previous occasions. To save myself some typing I went searching the web and my ZZZ sleeper files to see if I could find a few bits that I had copied out before. I discovered that I had actually started a Wikipedia

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Kaina Stoicheia 2014

2014-09-25 Thread Jon Awbrey
Peircers, A bit more poking around reveals that I created the Wikipedia article on May 7, 2006. It looks like it got absorbed into the main article on C.S. Peirce. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kaina_Stoicheiaoldid=51937343 It appears that I found this passage to be of primary

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6842] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-25 Thread Benjamin Udell
Howard, lists, You snipped a bit too much of what I said. I was talking about mathematics not just in the sense of doing the math, but of the mathematical objects themselves. You switch between the objects that one considers, and one's considering of the objects, and end up comparing apples

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Kaina Stoicheia

2014-09-25 Thread Jon Awbrey
Peircers, I found the passage I was looking for: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2005-November/003190.html I'm thinking it may be worth redoing in a blog post if the graphic gets too mushed over in this format. I don't think it can be possible to sum up the essence of a symbol any more

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Kaina Stoicheia 2014

2014-09-25 Thread Gary Fuhrman
Jon, you might mention that there are at least two complete copies of Kaina Stoicheia on the web, one at Arisbe http://www.iupui.edu/~arisbe/menu/library/bycsp/stoicheia/stoicheia.htm and one at my site http://www.gnusystems.ca/KainaStoicheia.htm - so again, I don't see the point of posting an