had many vague and
> incomplete ideas that he never wrote in his MSS. This may be one of the
> puzzles he hadn't fully worked out. In that long lettter, he wrote that he
> was planning o write another book.
>
> Nobody knows what Peirce intended to write, and nobody knows how he might
... not even the sacred memory of Peirce
himself.
All the best
Claudio
sowa @bestweb.net escribió el 15/10/2021 a las 19:02:
List,
On Thursday, I sent the note below to Peirce-L. I received some
strong positive comments and suggestions offline, but complete silence
from the people who send
encompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
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its exclusion” (as
he stated it in a Sept. 20 post). I should have simply ignored it
from the start, as I did afterwards, even after some of the loudest
voices on peirce-l bought into it, or at least adopted Robert’s
uncritical animosity to De Tienne. As it turned out, it was Robert
who had
his discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cybcom/1b277116-8ced-c471-6ee9-3d5a5830aec6%40att.net.
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bor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
[2]
http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'jonalanschm...@gmail.com\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
[3] http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt
[4] http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
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► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or &q
some of the loudest voices on peirce-l bought into it, or at least adopted
Robert’s uncritical animosity to De Tienne. As it turned out, it was Robert who
had the “advantage,” and apparently still does with his followers. But I must
take some of the blame for the derailing of the slow read, and I
,
Jon
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with UNSUBSCRIBE PEI
sts
cared about Peirce, it would speak to a lack of generality in his overall
philosophy.
Best
Jack
From: Robert Marty
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 2:50 PM
To: JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Cc: Gary Fuhrman ; Margaretha Hendrickx
; Peirce-L ; robert marty
; ta
ussion.
John
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with UNSU
have to
>> be VERY careful of our readings of texts - because ALL readings are not
>> dyadic mirrors of the text or author's mind. Instead - they are our own
>> interpretations - and we surely are aware of how varied such readings of
>> the SAME texts can be. We cannot y
uch a final step is impossible because semiosis has no final point.
Edwina
Links:
--
[1] http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt
[2] http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
[3]
http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
terpretation is The Final and Correct One.
>
> Therefore - I would also be against your suggestion that we should not
> move into applying Peirce's analytic framework to other fields - before we
> have declared what his work 'actually is'. I'm claiming such a final step
> is impossib
go, during the slow read of André De
Tienne's slide presentation about phaneroscopy.
GF (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-07/msg00037.html): I
should point out (to avoid further confusion) that Robert’s brand of
category theory is a post-Peircean development and does not adhere strictly
t
s,
>
> Robert Marty
> Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy
> fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty
> *https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ <https://martyrobert.academia.edu/>*
>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "
the next year were the
dumbest moves to pull from the standpoint of its performance on the Reasoning
task. I gradually came to appreciate that trade-off as a discovery ...
Regards,
Jon
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" t
Dear robert, list,
You said,
however, he (Gary F) is in a position of advantage over Peirce-L
What are you talking about?
The history of this list is detailed on the Arisbe site and
Gary R also gave his version as recently as the other day:
I am in the process of exploring the future
claim to be Peircean, without any truncation, he sees me as Post ... and I
see him as Ante ... however, he is in a position of advantage over
Peirce-L; consequently, if a justification of a parallel list was needed,
here it is ...
RM
Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy
e we learned
from it on the List ? None of the initiators of the topic has
offered any insight into concluding remarks (at least as it
appears to me).
Regards
Bernard
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" t
soning is only the tip of the vast iceberg of semiosis (sorry about the
hackneyed metaphor). I think recent developments in social psychology have
borne out this insight — for instance, those summarized at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_intuitionism. I’d be happy to explore thi
t; the List ? None of the initiators of the topic has offered any insight into
> concluding remarks (at least as it appears to me).
>
> Regards
>
> Bernard
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
> PEIRCE-L to this message.
> *From:* robert marty
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 17, 2021 11:27 AM
> *To:* JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
> *Cc:* Margaretha Hendrickx ; tabor...@primus.ca <
> tabor...@primus.ca>; Peirce-L ; Gary Fuhrman <
> g...@gnusystems.ca>
> *Subject:* Re:
in abstract terms.
Regards,
Jon
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raction and so your comment re the sociological axis is indeed
apt.
Best
Jack
From: robert marty
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 11:27 AM
To: JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Cc: Margaretha Hendrickx ; tabor...@primus.ca
; Peirce-L ; Gary Fuhrman
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [P
lf-understanding rather than practice itself -
> which, in agreement with Peirce, I think we all do more or less in common
> form.
>
> Best
>
> Jack
>
> --
> *From:* peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu
> on behalf of robert marty
> *Sent:*
(at least as it appears to me).
Regards
Bernard
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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thematical (in the sense Peirce ascribes to it). And so, I
think the problem is one of personal positioning and self-understanding rather
than practice itself - which, in agreement with Peirce, I think we all do more
or less in common form.
Best
Jack
____
From: pei
light of the
truths of empirics."*
(C.S. Peirce, MS 1345, undated, transcription 1976: NEM, vol III.2 1122)"
And now try to get a horizontal comment on Peirce-L (*on the sociological
axis*) that takes into account this question of identification of forms ...
and if you are answered &qu
John, Margaretha, Gary F, Edwina, Jon A S, List,
I am in the process of exploring the future direction of Peirce-L with
Nathan Houser, who heads The Peirce Group (TPG), and Peter Skagestaad, a
member of TPG who was charged with overseeing the functioning of Peirce-L
when over a decade ago I
somehow *encompassing *them. The predictable
result would have been more complaints by others, so I chose not to waste
my time.
JFS: I hereby request permission to broaden the list of permissible topics
on Peirce-L.
What a bizarre request. The only current *restriction *on topics
ve Science or whatever. And I certainly
wouldn't miss your frequent attacks (in recent years) on peirce-l members
who would rather learn from Peirce than defer to your authority.
Gary f.
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On
Behalf Of sowa @bestweb.net
Sent: 16-Oct-21 17:59
To: tabor...@primus.ca;
Margartha, Gary F, Ediwna, Jerry R, List,
Before saying anything else, I'll repeat my previous remark: "both and", not
"either or". I would not drop my subscription to Peirce-L, but I hope to
discuss topics about Cognitive Science, which do not seem to be w
offee house chat - but I'm not into Skype or Zoom. Won't even do it with my kids.
I think that Robert Marty's post is correct - where he agreed with Gary F - that a separate list means that the Peirce-L list members won't be 'bothered' by the 'sacrilege' of reading 'post-Peirce' analysis or reading our co
of Peirce-L!!!] have felt
whenever we have suggested the exploration of the Peircean framework
in scientific or AI or other areas. Or, heresy-of-all-heresies,
suggested that the terminology used by researchers in these fields is
analogous to those used by Peirce. The swift disparaging reactions
t; - that a separate list means that the Peirce-L list members won't be
> 'bothered' by the 'sacrilege' of reading 'post-Peirce' analysis or reading
> our complaints that the Peirce-L response is to fling dozens of quotations
> against such a focus..
>
> I don't see that a separate list
list means that the Peirce-L list members
won't be 'bothered' by the 'sacrilege' of reading 'post-Peirce'
analysis or reading our complaints that the Peirce-L response is to
fling dozens of quotations against such a focus..
I don't see that a separate list is 'divisive'. After all - you
> be more to their liking. At least we (subscribers to peirce-l) wouldn’t
> have to read all those complaints any more.
>
>
>
> Gary f.
>
>
>
> } Truth is truth, whether it is opposed to the interests of society to
> admit it or not. [Peirce, CP 8.143, EP2:61] {
>
of postings on this list to create a new one
that would be more to their liking. At least we (subscribers to
peirce-l) wouldn’t have to read all those complaints any more.
Gary f.
} Truth is truth, whether it is opposed to the interests of society
to admit it or not. [Peirce, CP
I think it could be helpful for the group that has been complaining about the
subject matter of postings on this list to create a new one that would be more
to their liking. At least we (subscribers to peirce-l) wouldn’t have to read
all those complaints any more.
Gary f.
} Truth
- Original Message -
From: Edwina Taborsky tabor...@primus.ca
To: s...@bestweb.net, mahe3...@gmail.com
Sent: Sat 16/10/21 11:58 AM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Should we start a new
email list (was Peirce's
he learning stages.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 6:02 PM sowa @bestweb.net
> wrote:
>
>> List,
>>
>> On Thursday, I sent the note below to Peirce-L. I received some strong
>> positive comments and suggestions offline, but complete silence from the
>>
similar?
If my question shows a lack of understanding of Peirce's work, I
apologize. I am still in the learning stages.
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 6:02 PM sowa @bestweb.net wrote:
> List,
>
> On Thursday, I sent the note below to Peirce-L. I received some strong
> posit
List,
On Thursday, I sent the note below to Peirce-L. I received some strong
positive comments and suggestions offline, but complete silence from the
people who send most of the notes to Peirce-L.For example: "As for the
natural extensions of Peirce's thought, even when they
grasping how the problem dissolves as soon as placed
in the medium of Peirce’s sign relations.
Here is how the ghost of a problem returned to haunt us on that occasion ...
• Peirce List • Jerry Chandler • Jon Awbrey • Gary Richmond • Christophe Menant
• https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2012
.
John
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with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in t
nsformation can get rid of a triadic connection
in the graph. John
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rid of a triadic connection in the graph.
John
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me of a variable.
Conclusion: The triangle is a degenerate triad because it can be
replaced by three dyads. But the Y is a genuine triad because no
transformation can get rid of a triadic connection in the graph.
John
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List&quo
graph.
John
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with UNSU
(Jagiellonian University, Poland)
Chair: Stanisław Krajewski (University of Warsaw, Poland)
Please register in advance!
https://www.logicandreligion.com/webinars
With best wishes,
Francisco de Assis Mariano
LARA Secretary
The University of Missouri-Columbia (USA)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers
on Logic, Religion and Philosophy (Springer Science, 2020)
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Cf: Conceptual Barriers • 4
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2021/10/12/conceptual-barriers-4/
Re: Conceptual Barriers • 1
https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2019/05/08/conceptual-barriers-1/
Re: Peirce List
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-10/thrd4.html#00111
::: John Sowa
https
us today. A few years ago, I wrote a widely cited n article with
>>> the title "Peirce's contributions to the 21st century:
>>> http://jfsowa.com/pubs/csp21st. If I were writing that today, I'd add
>>> quite a bit more.
>>>
>>> On the to
ally in the last several years of his life. I
believe that Peirce's legacy depends critically on his relevance for
ongoing research today. The Peirce Centennial Congress in 2014 was
far more exciting. It drew international participants from a wide
range of fields who showed how Peirce's ideas had in
y of existential import. It
will be argued that Carroll’s view reflected his belief in the social
utility of symbolic logic.
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PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iu
t_peircien >
[2] <#_ftnref2> Sokal affair - Wikipedia
< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair >
Honorary Professor; Ph.D. Mathematics; Ph.D. Philosophy
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty
* https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ < https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ >*
_ _ _ _ _
t;> Peirce wrote are also important. But at APA,conferences that kind of work
>> is buried in sessions that are only attended by Peirce scholars.
>> Meanwhile, lectures on other 19th century philosophers and logicians
>> (Frege, for example) get far more attention in
(Jagiellonian University, Poland)
Chair: Stanisław Krajewski (University of Warsaw, Poland)
Please register in advance!
https://www.logicandreligion.com/webinars
With best wishes,
Francisco de Assis Mariano
LARA Secretary
The University of Missouri-Columbia (USA)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers
e, look at
the Constitution of the United States of America. For more examples, look
a the great religious works of any major religion. Any work about which
people have stopped finding new interpretations is dead.
John
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply Lis
portant. Surveys of what
>> Peirce wrote are also important. But at APA,conferences that kind of work
>> is buried in sessions that are only attended by Peirce scholars.
>> Meanwhile, lectures on other 19th century philosophers and logicians
>> (Frege, for example) get far mo
irce's ideas had influenced their
research today. I have no intention of stopping anybody from
talking about the past, but Peirce's emphasis was always on the
future. I believe that Peirce would strongly encourage us to relate
his ideas to the latest research today. John_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_
ational participants from a wide
> range of fields who showed how Peirce's ideas had influenced their research
> today.
>
> I have no intention of stopping anybody from talking about the past, but
> Peirce's emphasis was always on the future. I believe that Peirce would
> strongly enco
is even. Otherwise, the
> dimensionality of the line is between 1 and 2, or of the surface it is
> between 2 and 3.
>
> Best, Helmut
>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEI
ly encourage us to relate
his ideas to the latest research today. John
Links:
--
[1] http://jfsowa.com/pubs/csp21st.;
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts s
eirce would
strongly encourage us to relate his ideas to the latest research today.
John
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PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu .
► To UN
From: "Jon Alan Schmidt"
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 5:09 PM
To: "Peirce-L"
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] Peirce on Dimensionality (was
ConnectedSigns Theorem)
Jack, List:
I can offer a couple m
–190.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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with UNSUBSCRIBE PEI
, that's helpful. I'm rereading your Temporal Synechism article (https://doi.org/10.1007/s10516-020-09523-6) at present which also helps clarify some of these issues.
Best
Jack
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscrib
s://doi.org/10.1007/s10516-020-09523-6) at present which also helps
> clarify some of these issues.
>
> Best
>
> Jack
>
>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L
cerely 'practice what
>> we preach'?
>>
>> We are all sinners. It's important to recognize that we are all sinners,
>> and to do our best to promote more constructive discussions. Occasional
>> lapses may occur. But we should do our best .
>>
>> John
>>
>
_ _ _ _ _
est to promote more constructive discussions. Occasional
> lapses may occur. But we should do our best .
>
> John
>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to p
Jon, List,
Cheers, Jon, that's helpful. I'm rereading your Temporal Synechism article
(https://doi.org/10.1007/s10516-020-09523-6) at present which also helps
clarify some of these issues.
Best
Jack
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on
behalf of Jon
how/why I've overlooked dimensionality in reading Peirce, or
> if it will even prove useful, but found this interesting, nonetheless.
>
> Best
>
> Jack
>
> ------
> *From:* JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
> *Sent:* Friday, October 8, 2021 10:03 PM
> *To
thesize some infinite
> being (for convenience, we may call it God). God's phemic sheet is all of
> reality. It's the Logos. The best we can do is to make our own little
> sheets a fairly accurate versions of some tiny part of reality we are
> familiar with.
>
> John
>
_ _
useful, but found this interesting, nonetheless.
Best
Jack
From: JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 10:03 PM
To: Peirce-L ; Jon Alan Schmidt
; JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] Re: Connected Signs Theorem (was Cognitive
Signs)
Just quick r
enience, we may call it God). God's phemic sheet is all of
reality. It's the Logos. The best we can do is to make our own little
sheets a fairly accurate versions of some tiny part of reality we are
familiar with.
John
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on
behalf of JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 9:16 PM
To: Peirce-L ; Jon Alan Schmidt
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] Re: Connected Signs Theorem (was Cognitive
Signs)
Edwina, Jon, List,
What role
More of
an interesting overlap than anything else. Would be nice if we could get a
physicist, a chemist, a few philosophers, and some of the more renowned
Peirceans into a room together.
Now returning to my actual work!
Best
Jack
________
From: peirce-l-requ...@l
one Sign - and do we mean by this the triad, the
Representamen or the process - would be to deny Peirce's insistence
on the diversity and complexity that is specifically enabled by the
triadic process of semiosis!
Edwina
Links:
--
[1]
http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpg
hat he
> generalized to signs of any kind.
>
> Question: Are there any MSS where Peirce mentions an example of connected
> signs that could not be represented by EGs that are connected by one or
> more lines of identity?
>
> John
>
>>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-
Peirce's distinctions between dynamic and
> immediate objects/interpretants and so that feel anything I offer in
> response to your question would be fallible in the extreme. You've raised a
> very interesting point, though.
>
> Best
>
> Jack
>
>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE
, in order to avoid the conclusion
that there is a "universe-external" object that determines the entire
universe, one must either reject this particular theorem or deny the
further premiss that the entire universe is "composed exclusively of
signs" (CP 5.448n, EP 2:394, 1906).
Regards,
: Are there any MSS where Peirce mentions an example of connected
signs that could not be represented by EGs that are connected by one or
more lines of identity?
John
From: "Jon Alan Schmidt"
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 9:26 PM
To: "Pei
categories" would be better.
I'm currently brushing up on Peirce's distinctions between dynamic and
immediate objects/interpretants and so that feel anything I offer in response
to your question would be fallible in the extreme. You've raised a very
interesting point, though.
Best
,
and to do our best to promote more constructive discussions. Occasional
lapses may occur. But we should do our best .
John
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to pei
John, List,
JFS: When people make statements on Peirce-L, they usually have a good
reason for making them. If one happens to disagree with them, it's far
better (more fruitful and more likely to lead to a deeper understanding) to
ask a question than to contradict what they said.
I agree
:36[5-1/2], 1904). Therefore, in order to *avoid *the
> conclusion that there is a "universe-external" object that determines the
> entire universe, one must either *reject *this particular theorem or *deny
> *the further premiss that the entire universe is "composed exclusiv
?
Gary f.
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On
Behalf Of Margaretha Hendrickx
Sent: 7-Oct-21 16:09
To: Helmut Raulien
Cc: tabor...@primus.ca; mkettel...@msn.com; Peirce-L
Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Argument and metaphors (Was Peirce & Popper)
Helmut, list.
I would love to hear how o
rey Jon 2001:
277-8).
Interesting stuff either way.
Best
Jack
________
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on
behalf of Edwina Taborsky
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 8:27 PM
To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu ; jonalanschm...@gmail.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PEIRCE-L
---
[1] http://ListeningIsTheKey.com
[2]
http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
[3]
http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'mkettel...@msn.com\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
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omplexity of interactions -- is similar to
> Peirce. That is, Popper accepts chance and reason as correlates [Firstness
> and Thirdness] in the development of a society.
>
>
> Responding to
>
>
> On Thu 07/10/21 9:48 AM , Margaretha Hendrickx mahe3...@gmail.com sent:
>
> List,
>
> How many of you
y for an essentially open
>> and unknown complexity of interactions -- is similar to Peirce. That is,
>> Popper accepts chance and reason as correlates [Firstness and Thirdness] in
>> the development of a society.
>
>
> Responding to
>
> On Thu 07/10/21 9:48 AM ,
. Also could be in a mode of 1ns,
2ns, 3ns.
Hope this helps a bit.
Edwina
Links:
--
[1] http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt
[2] http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
[3]
http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
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at between the Representamen and the Dynamic
> Object. That brings in the input data to that Representamen. Also could be
> in a mode of 1ns, 2ns, 3ns. [icon, index, symbol]
>
> 7] the next Relation is that between the Representamen and the
> Interpretant node. That relation is the re
am just speculating) then we have a dot of sorts which corresponds to
> icon?
>
> I have never really been able to make much headway with the graphs... Also
> really good to see some discussions in past couple of days.
>
> Best
>
> Jack
>
> --
> From: peirce-l-
tion between the philosophy of Karl Popper and Charles Peirce?
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s worked on this intersection,
> the French philosopher, Christiane Chauvire. But there must be others.
>
> As a footnote, my professional background is in strategic management, not in
> philosophy. I am interested in Peircean philosophy, and especially his work
> on semiotic triangles, given that I believe it
NICAMP), Itala Maria Loffredo D'Ottaviano (UNICAMP),
Graham Priest (CUNY).
*+info: *defective.scie...@gmail.com
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top.opencompose(\'mahe3...@gmail.com\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
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,
> but am just speculating) then we have a dot of sorts which corresponds to
> icon?
>
> I have never really been able to make much headway with the graphs... Also
> really good to see some discussions in past couple of days.
>
> Best
>
> Jack
>
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