Re: Economics and law
Ken, this comes close to baiting. On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 01:38:03AM -0400, Kenneth Campbell wrote: David Shemano writes: The issue is not whether East Germany, or any other socialist economy, was less able [...] Yes it was -- the part you are responding to. It was about regions. I wanted to show that you probably didn't even know where Europe is... let alone why Germany is not a unit. There is a stereotype about Americans-in-control: They can't read maps. (Canada knows this.) I assume the moderator gave you a thumbs up for a reason. (Maybe you are not a Novak-Limbaugh sort.) Anyway, so you tried to switch topics... and now it is not about the devaluation of life I mentioned in the original thread, now it is about Volvos and good cars from that socialist country. Good legal strategy, btw... when losing, swing any shit at hand in forms of motions... Ken. -- The Bible is probably the most genocidal book in our entire canon. -- Noam Chomsky -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Economics and law
I would not like to see an extended Stalin debate. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chavez question
Thank God he won! Still, I have a question. If 70% of the people are poor, how did the opposition get so many votes? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Economics and law
Obviously, someone who is very poor needs transportation will be unlikely to purchase a Volvo would be more likely to settle for a Yugo. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: JEP Schleiffer
Did he get fired? Just from the development institute? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Paying the price for war
Seth may well be understating the cost of the war. The budget of Walter Read is probably left out of these estimates. The cost of caring for the next generation of homeless people who never found their way back from the horror. The extra costs associated with the anger generated abroad. Could we use the priceless tag-line? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
NJ gov.
Why would an affair make him resign? Is the Lt. Gov. a dem? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Fox to Be Tested for Rabies
Headline from the Wash. Post online. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Kerry would have gone to war
The foreign policy difference between Bush Kerry would probably be that Kerry would be less likely to instigate crises, such as Haiti -- maybe Venezuela, but faced would public pressure might react like Bush, or even worse in order to prove that he is STRONG. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Greens For Nader Update: Rigged Convention Divides Green Party (Sign and Forward This)
KPFA had a debate between Cobb Camejo regarding the charge of the rigged convention. It did not sound nearly as clear cut as it was presented here. I was once on a jury panel for Camejo, but was kicked off left with a clenched fist salute. I liked what he did when I was at Berkeley, but in his run for Gov., much of his attack on Davis what almost identical to what the Republicans said. He would mention some progressive positions, but he devoted most of his time to fiscal responsibility. In the debate Cobb came off as a well-intentioned Green. Not strong, but nice sincere, but he gave a reasonable explanation. Camejo had answers, but nobody seemed to have a clear cut case. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Kerry would have gone to war
Exactly. On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 04:10:37PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: Michael Perelman wrote: The foreign policy difference between Bush Kerry would probably be that Kerry would be less likely to instigate crises, such as Haiti Clinton co-opted Aristide; Bush overthrew him. The first sucks but the second is worse. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Kerry would have gone to war
Shane is also correct in interpreting my meaning. On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 04:18:25PM -0400, Shane Mage wrote: Michael Perelman writes: The foreign policy difference between Bush Kerry would probably be that Kerry would be less likely to instigate crises, such as Haiti -- maybe Venezuela, but faced with public pressure might react like Bush, or even worse in order to prove that he is STRONG. public pressure--this should be translated an orchestrated media campaign, n'est-ce-pas? Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things...It consents and does not consent to be called Zeus. Herakleitos of Ephesos -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
libertarian journal watch project
http://www.econjournalwatch.org/main/index.php This would be an excellent project to replicate from the left. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
lesser evil question
If Kerry keeps shifting right, maybe we will have to vote for Bush as the lesser evil? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
In the News today
The Sacramento Bee juxtaposed to stories today, perhaps accidentally, regarding hoaxes. In one case, a young man who wanted to publicize his run for supervisor in San Francisco faked his own beheading. I understand that the authorities want to punish him as severely as possible. In the other story, Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger conspired to put off the retreat from Saigon until after the 1972 election. Countless people died from the delay, yet Richard Nixon was rewarded with his reelection and Kissinger remains an unindicted or criminal and successful pundit. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
monetarism paranoia
So the Jobs Report Is Dismal. The Fed Has No Place to Go but Up. By JONATHAN FUERBRINGER New York Times August 8, 2004 That will Fed policy makers do this week in the face of surprisingly weak job growth in the last two months? Raise interest rates, of course. Despite the awkward timing of the Fed meeting, so soon after Friday's report that only 32,000 new jobs were created in July, the Fed has little maneuvering room. The Fed is going to raise rates, said Richard Yamarone, director of economic research at Argus Research. He said that one reason Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, would go ahead was that he has got to raise rates so he can cut them again if there is a terrorist attack. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: [Marxism] Jonathan Schell on the DP's prowar stance
A Berkeley couple just sent out an email during the impeachment, appealing for politics to moveon to more important stuff. The letter took on a life of its own eventually began an to become an organization. Soros gave them some money. On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 11:32:37AM -0700, Dan Scanlan wrote: Moveon began in protest of the Clinton impeachment. It began as a letter that took a life of its own. Michael, I'd like to know more about this. I've been asked to perform at a benefit for MoveOn and need to decide. (I don't want to help fund a Kerry front.) Dan Scanlan -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Tariq Ali on the US election
I don't see any more reason to demonize ABB people than to demonize Nader people. Both sides see themselves as promoting the left albeit by different routes. On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 09:05:05PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: Despite my problems with State Capitalist ideology, I feel much more of an affinity for Todd Chretien--the California petition coordinator for Nader-Camejo and ISO member--than I do for Bob McChesney, the long time MR figure. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what McChesney thinks about Cuba if he can't get this Kerry thing right. -- Marxism list: www.marxmail.org -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Tariq Ali on the US election
Good people disagree on the Nader/Kerry decision. I think that we all know the rationale for each choice. I don't think that either side comes out well, if you only look at what some of their supporters have done -- denying Nader his right to run through dirty tricks or cavorting with the right. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: What is the total wealth ?
Right, they should teach that marginal productivity theory created economic justice because everybody got rewarded according to their marginal product. Sraffa proved that it was BS. Samuelson and others attempted to refute him, but were unsuccessful. Solow said that it was a tempest in a teapot. Now nobody cares, but they continue to teach the same BS. On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 12:07:17PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: Yeah, but nobody cares about that anymore. It was an obsession of some weirdos in England a generation ago, but we've moved beyond that now. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: What is the total wealth ?
Of course, the current thinking is that it is human capital that is responsible for most of the productivity. Has anybody made a recent estimate of the aggregate human capital? On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 12:06:08PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: Another approach. According to the BEA, the value of fixed reproducible tangible wealth (including consumer durables) in the U.S. was $32.8 trillion in 2002. (Note that the rate of return on those assets implied by GDP is a lot higher than Julio's estimate - around 30%.) That year, according to World Bank stats, the U.S. had 32% of world GDP. So, scaling up based on that income share, we can estimate that the global capital stock is worth $102.1 trillion - or roughly $16,000 per capita. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: China and socialism
End of thread! Why can you just discuss things without getting nasty and bringing up material from other lists? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: No Bounce for Kerry
The strategy guarentees that Kerry will have no coattails. On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 03:32:47PM -0400, Michael Hoover wrote: re. dem/kerry strategy, elections are mechanisms of social control, narrow kerry win will actually be narrow bush loss, kerry's people think this can happen with existing likely electorate which, of course, means doing nothing to get more folks to vote, result will be few 'progressive' expectations of kerry administration...michael hoover -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: No Bounce for Kerry
Kucinich had no money supporting him; Kerry has an organize (well, well-funded) party. Gore's support picked up when he did populism, so would Kerry's. All he had to do was to take Edwards' 2-America's riff a bit further. On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 03:52:16PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: If there's a great untapped reservoir of leftish populism in the American masses, why did Kucinich do so badly in the primaries, and why is Nader now down around 2%? Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: No Bounce for Kerry
When has a person in the debates been called a vanity candidate before. The singing schtick was stupid, though. On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 04:32:11PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: Michael Perelman wrote: Kucinich had no money supporting him C'mon - he was in the debates, he was on the road a lot. He should have done better than, what?, 2% of the primary vote. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Walmart costs California
The labor center was singled out by Arnold for extinction, although the Dems made him fund the certer. The construction industry is especially hostile to the center. On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 08:07:07PM -0700, Devine, James wrote: Wal-Mart questioned the validity of the report, saying the authors undervalued the wages and benefits the chain's employees receive. The UC report comes from the Berkeley Labor Center, an institute that is openly supportive of union causes. Although its researchers have in the past accepted funding from the grocery workers' union to conduct studies, this report was not funded by labor, its authors said. _openly_ supportive of union causes? do they ever say openly supportive of corporate causes? is Labor is such bad shape that it's a market of shame to support it? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: The Soviet empire was a drain on Moscow
Schumpeter made that argument in his essay, Imperialism. On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 06:57:20AM -0700, Devine, James wrote: Some scholars (sorry, I don't have the reference here) argue that even the British empire wasn't profitable for Britain as a whole. But it clearly benefited the upper classes, who were more important in decision-making. Jim Devine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: No Bounce for Kerry
I was struck by the same thing as Michael H. I doubt that they will reciprocate for the Dems. On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:24:33AM -0400, Michael Hoover wrote: related point: tv media abandoned past convention coverage in giving reps so many opportunities to sprinkle on dem parade...michael hoover Also, I have never heard of any competitive contest where you aim to just get over the hump. Sounds like a stupid strategy. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: A Question for the Moderator- race, ideology and the right thing to do.
Melvyn's story about his dealings with the red necks at the workplace illustrate the degree of skill required to navigate the class divide. No easy answers in this regard. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chechnya
Maybe we have played out this whole question of ethnic divisions. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Jeffrey Sachs, Accenture, Columbia University
I'm sure that for some work outsourcing does provide excellent quality, but my personal experience with outsourcing comes from contacting help desks. Not only is the line quality poor, impeding communication, but the help desks are not particularly helpful. My guess is that because these jobs are very desirable, the workers accept a very tight scripting. As a result, they are very unhelpful unless your question is fully anticipated. On the other hand, I have had very good experience asking questions of techies from domestic help desks, who seem to [have the freedom to] enjoy the challenge of a complex question. The artificial offshoring of moving a company to Bermuda is despicable on all counts. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
privacy
I just found this on Risks Digest. [http://www.odci.gov/cia/notices.html#priv] Privacy Notice The Central Intelligence Agency is committed to protecting your privacy and will collect no personal information about you unless you choose to provide that information to us. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
God supports communism
I found this on Risk Digest as well Cosmic ray hits Brussels election - really? Dirk Fieldhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:04:14 +0100 John Miller, Dow Jones Newswires (07/26/04); seen via ACM Tech News: http://www.acm.org/technews/articles/2004-6/0728w.html#item1 European citizens and governments generally prefer traditional paper-based voting because of unresolved reliability and security issues surrounding electronic voting. ... [DF comment: what a fair summary, and in the UK issues are also being raised by the extension of postal paper voting] ... Fueling the arguments of paper ballot supporters are incidents such as a 2003 Belgian election in which almost 4,100 extra votes for Maria Vindevoghel's Communist Party were recorded in a precinct of Brussels due to a malfunction triggered by a cosmic ray. ... I found this jaw-dropping -- not the possibility of a cosmic ray causing a computer malfunction, which is an obvious threat for space-borne systems, but how such an apparently unrepeatable external event could be accepted as the cause of a terrestrial computer malfunction. The lack of any confirmation through Google seems to support my astonishment. Can the select RISKS readership confirm whether this actually occurred, or is it an urban legend? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: JEP
Shleifer is the editor; DeLong is gone. So the journal has become more technical, less topical. Its beauty, especially under Stiglitz, was that it could keep non-specialists informed about different fields and truly offer different, even dissident, perspectives. On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 08:47:51AM -0700, Devine, James wrote: [was RE: [PEN-L] Deeper Problems for Shleifer] Michael writes: Does anybody niotice the rapid decline in the Journal of Economic Perspectives? A right winger will take over the Journal of Economc Literature. I haven't been paying attention. Why do you think that the JEP is in decline? why do you think it went into that tailspin? who is the editor? is it still Brad deLong? who's taking over the JEL? replacing whom? jim d -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: [Marxism] Jonathan Schell on the DP's prowar stance
Moveon began in protest of the Clinton impeachment. It began as a letter that took a life of its own. On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 12:29:41PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: Devine, James wrote: did the DP create Moveon.org? my impression is that its leaders created it and then moved into the DP orbit on their own. I wasn't clear enough. Moveon.org was created by people who wanted a respectable alternative to the antiwar movement. It then morphed into Howard Dean's collection agency and is now nothing but an arm of the Democratic Party. -- Marxism list: www.marxmail.org -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Promoting paranoia
Our local police department wants to get some money from the Homeland Security Department. The only catch is that they have to prove that we have terrorists in our midst. I assume that as police departments throughout the country compete for this money, the feds will have convincing evidence that the terrorists have thoroughly infiltrated every nook and cranny of our great land. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: A Question for the Moderator
Melvyn posed posed one of the truly difficult challenges that the left faces: learning how to learn from the masses at the same time as we supply them with information. Listening is a very difficult skill. I remember trying to speak with the boyfriend of my first wife's mother. He worked in a gas station. He was not stupid, but he was angry. He directed much of this anger at Blacks, but I think he was racist. He just had this anger and he did not know where to direct it. Fortunately, I just read a wonderful book -- The Hidden Injuries of Class -- which helped me to translate some of his words into what he was really thinking rather than to come down on him as a stupid racist. I do not pretend to be entirely successful. Usually the discussion would get to a degree of rationality, but then would return to the same ugly spot the next time we would meet. In a way, Melvyn is at a great advantage, coming from his experience as an auto worker, an environment that has a long history militancy, both intellectual and practical. But he is absolutely correct in realizing that Bush is much more effective than speaking to the working-class family on the left. I wish it were otherwise. On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 04:36:05PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get me wrong. . . I love books . . . but a segment of the so-called Marxist intellegincia have not asked people what they actually think and feel. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: A Question for the Moderator
I don't have any simple answers. On the one hand, fragmentation makes for inefficiencies. On the other hand, the larger the extent of the central government, a greater number of minority groups might find themselves oppressed. Even if you fragment the state, you'll probably find even smaller ethnic minorities find themselves oppressed. Most societies are like fractals, break them up and you'll find even smaller divisions within each element. One overriding problem is that by fragmenting political units, an imperial power will have an easier time controlling them. So here is the closest I can come to a simple answer: let us hope that we can get to a socialist society in which people cannot profit from stirring up racial and ethnic hatred; so that things that are truly local can be handled locally; and that people can learn to cooperate. Of course, how you get there -- that is the central question. On Fri, Jul 30, 2004 at 04:36:05PM +0100, Ulhas Joglekar wrote: Michael Perelman, Some posters on this list have expressed their support for the breakup of Russia, India, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. I would like know what is your personal opinion in this matter. Ulhas Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Communalising Kerala
This is truly sad. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Microsof on Intellectual Property
Lohr, Steve. 2004. Pursuing Growth, Microsoft Steps Up Patent Chase. New York Times (30 July). Microsoft said on Thursday that it planned to increase its storehouse of intellectual property by filing 50 percent more patent applications over the next year than in the previous 12 months. Microsoft, the world's largest software company, increasingly regards the legal protection of its programming ideas as essential to safeguarding its growth opportunities. Speaking at the company's yearly meeting with financial analysts, Bill Gates, the company's chairman, called patents a very important part of what he termed the cycle of innovation that has been responsible for Microsoft's past prosperity and continued corporate health. Microsoft's stepped-up patent program, analysts say, will be watched closely in the industry to see if the company uses it mainly as a defensive tactic or as an offensive weapon to try to slow the spread of open source products. Microsoft, Mr. Gates said, intends to file more than 3,000 patents in its 2005 fiscal year, which began this month, up from about 2,000 patent filings in fiscal 2004. It typically takes three years or more before a filed patent is approved. Today, Microsoft trails well behind I.B.M. and several other hardware makers in the size of its patent portfolio. Mr. Gates cited research showing Microsoft patents are cited as prior art, or examples of existing knowledge, in other patent filings somewhat more often than the patents of other technology companies, including Oracle, Sun Microsystems, Apple and I.B.M. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Hasn't this gone on long enough? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
Cool it, Yoshie. On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 11:12:55AM -0400, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: You have no moral right to be acting superior to terrorists, since you intend to vote for one. -- -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
OK.Let's end this thread right away! -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
ethnic divisions
Although I am highly disappointed by the low level of discourse on Kerala/Chechnya, I do have a serious question that might deflect the discussion. Are the ethnic hostilities something that would naturally die out without being enflamed intentionally for political gains or are they inevitable? The Irish were regarded almost identically to the Blacks in the US. I gave some sources on this a few days ago, I believe. Yet, there is not a high level of anti-Irish feeling in the US. If my suspicion is correct, are there any models for people confronting those who try to whip up divisions? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
I thought we were dropping this! -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
David, there is no need to talk that way. All you had to do was to explain the situation, BUT the thread is supposed to have expired anywhere. On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:23:17PM -0700, sartesian wrote: Horseshit. Oh, I'm sorry, is horsehit too harsh a word when faced with the bemused scepticism of the professional rationalist? In that case, horseshit. The latest, and perhaps most gruesome, car bombing was adjacent to a police recruitment center. Whether or not you approve of the targets in Ireland or Iraq is not the determining factor. The determining factor in both is the occupation. You don't like their choice of targets? Get your troops out. Do we need to remind you about certain gruesome practices of the Vietnames resistance to the French occupation? To the US occupation? Should we condemn the anti-apartheid fighters who blew cafes frequented by police and others? - Original Message - From: Chris Doss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Israel pushing for Kurdish state? - --- Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lately the resistance in Iraq has mainly been killing people at open-air markets. The anti-imperialist content of this strategy is hard to discern. Doug --- It doesn't have anti-imperialist content. The point is to make themselves look badass on TV and Jihadi websites and get money and converts. That's why they always stage high-profile PR campaigns of zero military content, like the raid on Ingushetia or the attack on the Indian parliament. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
Damn it, David. Cut it out! On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:24:50PM -0700, sartesian wrote: So then why, Mr. Henwood, have you given credence to the notion that the US presence might lend stability to Iraq? - Original Message - From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Israel pushing for Kurdish state? - Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Have you added up all the Iraqi civilians killed by various factions of Iraqi and non-Iraqi terrorists and compared the number to that of Iraqi civilians killed by US and other foreign troops who invaded and have occupied Iraq and by economic sanctions before the invasion and occupation? Americans who vote for John Kerry who will be the next POTUS, aka the biggest terrorist and war criminal, have no moral standing to pretend to be appalled by un-American terrorists. Only those who do not vote for Kerry or Bush have the moral standing to criticize foreign terrorists. What a load of crap. Elections are about contesting for power, and often involve debased compromises; votes aren't symptoms of moral purity. And why is it impossible to hold two thoughts in mind at once? The sanctions were murderous and the war a horrible crime. There's no doubt that the U.S. and its very junior partners have killed far more Iraqi civilians than the resistance. But there are some people on the western left - some of them members of PEN-L, even - who can't acknowledge that a lot of the Iraqi resistance consists of jihadists and unreconstructed Saddamites, i.e., absolutely awful forces. As Christian Parenti said when he returned from his first trip to Iraq - there's no way anything good can come of this. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
He has behaved ok until tonight. One more he is gone; or maybe I will just get him to resub to LBO. On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:51:40PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: sartesian wrote: So then why, Mr. Henwood, have you given credence to the notion that the US presence might lend stability to Iraq? I haven't, asshole. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -
My apologies; it was intended for Doug, but the posts from David tonight were not very nice, especially after I asked that the thread be discontinued. On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 08:42:15PM -0700, Michael Perelman wrote: He has behaved ok until tonight. One more he is gone; or maybe I will just get him to resub to LBO. On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:51:40PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: sartesian wrote: So then why, Mr. Henwood, have you given credence to the notion that the US presence might lend stability to Iraq? I haven't, asshole. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
leading indicators
If consumer confidence is increasing and purchases are flattening, which is the leading indicator? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
A good NY Times article on the World Bank
healthier and stayed in school longer. In the development business, he said, it would be really good to get away from the need to have people promising miracles. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Harlem/Bangladesh
Regarding Paul's suggestion about infant mortality recall the recent study comparing infant mortality in Harlem and Bangladesh. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: An emerging labor-led left in the DP?
There is no need to get personal! On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 01:36:31PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: This might be related to the fact that you were a trade union functionary for over 25 years. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: dean baker vs. the dot com and the tulip bubbles
He is saying that lower interest rates higher incomes increase demand. In itself that is reasonable, but the question is whether it is enough to explain the soaring costs of housing. If you know nothing about economics you have to choose between Dean Baker someone who predicted a 36,000 NASDAQ On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 03:48:50PM -0400, Charles Brown wrote: by Perelman, Michael -clip- Mr. Hassett of the conservative American Enterprise Institute thinks housing prices will be pretty much O.K. He acknowledges there might be some bubble dynamics at play in some regions. But he argues that for the most part people are paying more for homes because their incomes are higher and interest rates are lower, reducing the cost to own a home. ^ CB: Sounds like he is saying people are paying more for homes because the cost of them is less. Isn't the market theory of prices supposed to be determined by supply and demand ? Yet supply of houses is not less, and demand is not more, so why higher prices , by that theory ? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Owning Up to Abortion
Ehrenreich's pieces have all been very sharp. Very sharp. Makes you wonder would it would be right to have a media open to all points of view all of the time. On the other hand, did anybody see Scott Simon's smarmy WSJ review of F911. The journal must have toned it down, because it implies that Simon vowed never to allow Moore on his show -- even though that was not in the article. His main point is Moore's inaccuracy. If he only applied the same standards to gov't and corp. officials, I would be happy. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Hassett
Hassett of Dow -- not NASDAQ as I carelessly wrote earlier -- 36,000 fame also has an outrageous column in the WSJ describing Kerry's wild eyed fiscal spending plans. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Hassett
How much would all of these promises cost? Let's begin with the biggest proposal. The only existing score for the health plan was provided by Kenneth Thorpe, a former Clinton official and Emory University professor. He at first placed the cost of Mr. Kerry's health plan alone at about $1 trillion. Mr. Thorpe subsequently revised the figure downward to $653 billion to account for some rather mysterious savings, apparently because the health plan's vague statements concerning prevention will yield miraculously precise lower expenses in later years. The higher number is more reasonable. But starting with the lower number, the National Taxpayers' Union Foundation recently estimated that Mr. Kerry's proposals would increase government spending by $226 billion in his first year in office. That's about $2,000 per American family, or 10% of the federal budget. While the report did not include a 10-year score, the construction of one is hardly rocket science. My own calculations suggest that the total costs of Mr. Kerry's proposals would be at least $2 trillion from 2005 to 2014. On Tue, Jul 27, 2004 at 04:58:50PM -0700, Devine, James wrote: I was wondering: what are Kerry's wild eyed fiscal spending plans? a chicken in every pot, I hope, or at least pot in every chicken. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Carrol Cox Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Hassett Michael Perelman wrote: Hassett of Dow -- not NASDAQ as I carelessly wrote earlier -- 36,000 fame also has an outrageous column in the WSJ describing Kerry's wild eyed fiscal spending plans. Aww, come on Michael. To be outrageous by WSJ op-ed standards it would have to Be Hermann Goering high on speed! Carrol -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Chris, why the sarcastic Ha.? The Kurds have been oppressed for centuries. Playing a weak hand, they have been involved in all sorts of weird arrangements, frequently living by smuggling, shifting alliances unexpectedly. Why can't people sympathize with them and still be disgusted by particular actions? Chris Doss wrote: Ha. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Where does this ocme from, Chris. Again, Cuba is weak -- yet amazingly has survived every imaginable sort of pressure -- so it may find it beneficial to side with Pakistan. But to make your generalization about knee-jerk support seems overblown. On Mon, Jul 26, 2004 at 10:07:10AM -0700, Chris Doss wrote: I'm not surprised. They probably knee-jerk support every little group that screeches national sovereignity! Even if India goes down in flames. --- Ulhas Joglekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Doss wrote: Ha. Do you know Cuba supports self-determination by Kashmiris? Ulhas --- Ulhas Joglekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Hindu Monday, Jul 26, 2004 Israel pushing for Kurdish state? By Atul Aneja Yahoo! India Careers: Over 65,000 jobs online Go to: http://yahoo.naukri.com/ __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?
Has any country dealt fairly with minorities? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: HDI, GNP and the PPP factor
Economics is all about measuring in measurable. I was reading this week about scientific racism in Victorian England, where people tried to develop mathematical measures of how close various peoples came to being Africans. These measures showed the Irish were almost Black. Such matters were taken very seriously and the time. If we were gone to try to make some sort of quantitative measure of a human development index, I think I will try to get a handle on how people at the bottom fared rather than looking at averages. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: HDI, GNP and the PPP factor
On measuring the unmeasurable, 3.5 centuries ago, Sir William Petty, was devising ways to measure the economy. I wonder how silly we will look in the future, unless we continue to destroy the future. Routh, Guy. 1977. The Origin of Economic Ideas (New York: Vintage). 45: In comparing wealth of Holland and Zealand, he takes 2 guesses by 2 other people, doesn't like the result and so uses his own guess. He estimates the population of France from a book that says that it has 27,000 parishes and another that says that it would be extraordinary if a parish had 600 people. He estimates 500 people per parish and a population of 13.5 million. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: F911 fizzle?
Don't campaigns often pay $5 or $10 per vote? On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 03:10:08PM -0400, Robert Naiman wrote: Why do these numbers represent fizzle? Let say that 9% of the electorate has seen the film, as in the sample. Let's say 18% of those who've seen the film are more likely to vote against Bush as a result, as reported in the sample. Multiplying, we find that 1.6% of the electorate are more likely to vote against Bush, as a result of seeing the film. Now, if you're an anti-Bush campaign consultant, and you have an opportunity for an ad buy that has the potential to move 1.6% of the electorate against Bush, how much would you be willing to pay for that? And that doesn't count the people who have not yet seen the film but will do so before the election, who one would expect would be less committedly anti-Bush then people who saw the movie right away. Did this reporter do the math? - Robert Naiman At 08:23 AM 7/23/2004 -0700, you wrote: http://www.latimes.com/la-et-horn23jul23,1,1478123.story http://www.latimes.com/la-et-horn23jul23,1,1478123.story THE [Los Angeles] TIMES POLL Public Keeping Its Cool Over Election Effect of 'Fahrenheit' By John Horn Times Staff Writer July 23, 2004 Despite its continuing success with the box-office electorate, Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore's sharply satirical attack on President Bush and his administration, appears to be wielding less influence among potential voters than the filmmaker and his supporters might have hoped, a Los Angeles Times Poll has found. The survey found that Fahrenheit is drawing an overwhelmingly Democratic audience, and of the Republicans who have ventured to see it, few appear to be swayed. One of those polled, 27- year-old Thomas Winney, a Republican construction worker who saw the movie in Washington, Mo., said it had no effect on how he views the election. It didn't change my mind at all, Winney said, noting that he was and remains a Bush supporter. Kerry says one thing one time, and another thing the next time. Of the 1,529 registered voters surveyed in the poll, conducted nationwide July 17-21, 9% had seen Moore's film, which has taken in more than $97 million since it opened last month and established itself as the highest-grossing feature-length documentary ever. Of those who have seen the movie, 78% identified themselves as Democrats, 9% as independents and 6% as Republicans. Predictably, the vast majority of those who had seen the film - 92% - said they were planning to vote for Sen. John F. Kerry and Sen. John Edwards for president. Only 3% planned to vote for Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. Seventy-nine percent of those who had seen Fahrenheit said the film would not change their November votes; 18% said it made them more likely to vote against Bush; and 3% said it bolstered their resolve to vote for him. Because the Fahrenheit questions were asked only of registered voters, it was not possible to determine whether the film was prompting people to sign up to vote for the first time. Moore closes the film with the message Do something. At a celebrity-studded Beverly Hills screening of the film last month, he said: I hope this country will be back in our hands in a very short period of time. He could not be reached for comment by press time Thursday. Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, said he was not surprised that the film was appealing to a narrow political segment and added that it didn't necessarily need to win over GOP voters in order to have an effect on the election. The important role [movies like this] play is that they are energizers for political points of view, Kohut said. Rush Limbaugh is important not because he converts people - he can't convert anyone. But he gets people riled up. Catherine Krause, a 20-year-old student in Houston, is among the choir to whom Moore is preaching. Even though she identified herself as a Republican, Krause said she went into Fahrenheit intending to vote against Bush - and came out with the same opinion. I'm not a fan of the president, Krause, one of the Times Poll respondents, said in an interview Thursday. If Michael Moore had done the film more truthfully, I would have been more impressed with it. But I agree with the main premise. Overall, the Times Poll found that audience members had mixed feelings about the accuracy of Moore's brand of documentary filmmaking. Nine percent found it somewhat or completely inaccurate. But despite attacks from conservative critics, most others granted it at least some credibility, with 31% calling it completely accurate and 58% calling it somewhat accurate. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. ... Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California
Re: Subject: Re: Suicides, Military and Economic
Yes, but why are they localized in only 1 state? Aren't these problems more widespread? On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 08:20:40PM +0100, Ulhas Joglekar wrote: Perelman, Michael wrote: Farmers' suicides: Why are they localized? Failure of monsoons, farmers' indebtness, shift to the cash crops etc. are among the principal factors. See interview of CPIM Secretary, B.V. Raghavalu for Andhra Pradesh (Pop. about 80 million)for details in Fronline, 19 June-2 July 2004: (i)Interview: CPIM Secretary for Andhra Pradesh, B.V.Raghavalu http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2113/stories/20040702006201900.htm (ii)Other Frontline articles on farmers' suicides in Andhra Pradesh http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2113/fl211300.htm Yahoo! India Careers: Over 65,000 jobs online Go to: http://yahoo.naukri.com/ -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: u/p labor
Tom deserves a note of thanks for posting this valuable literature. Going to the site, I found that you can also find a pin-up of Tom. http://www.worklessparty.org/tomwalker.shtml -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
quick question
What is a good source for the share of HMO dollars that goes to care rather than profits or overhead? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: FW: Blackfoot Constitution
Please, Jim no attachments. Not a Bhuddist comment. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Query: Ford/General Motors
I don't recall the exact details, but a few years ago when Rupert Murdoch was looking to expand his satellite business the Wall Street Journal said that he was mulling over the possibility of buying General Motors, because its satellite division was worth more on the market than the company as a whole. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: quick question
I had been looking at my notes on her work, but could not find anything recent. Thank you very much. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Herald: War of subversion in Iran already getting geared up
Wow. I cannot imagine karl rove thinking how that will win him votes as a campaign issue. On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 02:14:55PM -0400, Michael Pollak wrote: The official said: If George Bush is re-elected there will be much more intervention in the internal affairs of Iran. Full at: http://www.sundayherald.com/43461 -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Human Development Index 2004
This is one of the best threads on the list for a long time. Valuable information. No acrimony. Am I dreaming? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: India's HDI Improves, Ranking Doesn't
To what extent has India managed to handle it diversity other than the Hindu/Muslim split? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Sabri Oncu's response to Greed
Gil Skillman wrote: So to the extent that firm managers respond to the concerns of equity holders, they will act as though greedy--that is, operate the firm so as to maximize (the expected present value of) profit. I believe Gil meant expected present value of future cash flows/net income/residual income or some such thing, assuming that the managers' compensation schemes are sufficiently goal congruent, that is, sufficiently strong to induce them to follow that path. But why is the below so certain: Given competitive markets (or indeed, just competitive markets for firm equity shares), it can be shown that, whatever their personal consumption goals, people who own equity shares in a given firm will want that firm to maximize profits. For example, what if suddenly the shares of the Nesin Foundation in Turkey, which houses orphans and funds their education until they are able to earn their own bread, become competitive because a large number of people become interested in owning its shares since the foundation pays more to the orphans that they are dieing to help than other competing foundations? The more the funds the foundations spend on the orphans, the more expensive their shares get, since those who are willing the help the orphans have more to pay to these funds to satiate their locally non-satiable utilities by helping the orphans. In this case, wouldn't the Nesin foundation want to maximize its loss which, unless there are some contraints, is infinite? May Aziz Nesin, the founder of the Nesin Foundation, one of the greates writers of all times of my part of the world, rest in peace. Sabri -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece
This is not the way to operate here. On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 01:29:41PM -0400, Joel Wendland wrote: Please, before you remark upon others's comments-- I didn't know you were the moderator. I'll let your request for further discussion on another subject go. Clearly you think you know what I think and don't want to waste my time trying to disabuse you of your sagacious superiority. I'll be sure to avoid reading your posts in the future. Take care, Joel Wendland _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece
How can anyone believe that keeping troops in the US could possibly help bring social justice? Unfortunately, Kerry will not bring troops home without strong international cover. Otherwise he will be blamed for loosing Iraq. He will have to keep putting more troops in until Jeb takes over. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece
sorry. you are correct. but I would be happy to remove the troops from the US. On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 03:18:05PM -0400, ravi wrote: Michael Perelman wrote: How can anyone believe that keeping troops in the US could possibly help bring social justice? i assume, you meant keeping troops in iraq? --ravi -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece
The US establishment could do a lot more good by leaving Iraq, admitting that they were wrong, that the press screwed up, and warning that the people should be more attentive to the truth next time. On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 09:37:03PM -0400, ravi wrote: what then of US responsibility to clean up the mess we created? it seems to me that many (not necessarily on pen-l) who call for the return of the troops are primarily motivated by their concern for the safety of american soldiers. many of these same people i am sure supported the invasion that put these soldiers in iraq! why not first the call: US corporations out of iraq? --ravi -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece
Ravi, with all due respect, Iif the US really wanted to make things better the money that they spend now could buy many more Islamic soldiers, without the stigma of US control. If the US left Iraqis decide the fate of their gov't, it would probably be anti-American and theocratic. Engels once said that the worst time for a bad government is when it first tries to do good. Doing good in this case will not be easy, but the military is too blunt an object to acomplish anything good. But the US is not interested in doing good. It wants to avoid humiliation. One of the generals said that the US can take its humiliation now or later. It has to decide how much humiliation it wants. But then, maybe with enough money and lives, the US can establish an ARENA-like party that will do its bidding, allowing the US to sneak away. I doubt it, though. On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 10:37:15PM -0400, ravi wrote: Devine, James wrote: ravi writes: what then of US responsibility to clean up the mess we created? shouldn't it be what then of the US power elite's responsibility to clean up the mess they created? for an iraqi is there a difference? or even for us? 30-50% of the taxes i pay go towards funding american adventures in other countries and the further excesses of client states like israel. am i not complicit in the suffering of iraqis and palestinians and east timorese? Do you think that US troops are the best tool for cleaning the mess they were hired to create? i don't know. that's why i am trying to follow this debate. but often all i hear is dismissal without justification of the opposing position. perhaps the reasons are obvious? It seems that they are serving the US corporations, so if you're calling for US corporations out of Iraq, you're also calling for their servants to leave. i dont know about the last part. perhaps US troops as part of a multinational force could help ensure peace. that might be a naive hope. the corporations (hallibortun, bechtel, etc) are by their very nature a corrupting and degenerate influence. BTW, did you see that the Sydney Morning Herald reported that Iyad Allawi, the new Prime Minister of Iraq, pulled a pistol and executed as many as six suspected insurgents at a Baghdad police station, just days before Washington handed control of the country to his interim government... indeed i read about this, and it only adds to my doubt. i am not very knowledgeable about iraq but is it not possible that the thugs who will rush in to fill the void left by a suddenly departed US army, would be worse? i remember reading pieces about east timor, rwanda, and elsewhere, of the horrors that ensued when any provisional authority pulled out (in those cases these authorities were a bit more legitimate, such as the UN). isnt it important not to forget that their thugs are as bad as ours? only, we can try to control our thugs but they cannot control theirs or ours. --ravi -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Venture Communism/morped/ Socialism Betrayed
This seems to have devolved into a discussion between 3 people. Maybe we can drop it now. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
oops, again
Here is another article from my files. I have just included the parts relevant to the tail of the thread. Customers don't notice or don't care [or don't want to spend the time]. Most of the fees and usurious interest rates and the like fall on the backs of the poor. Besides falling outside the CPI calculations, they also mean that the distribution of income is even more lopsided. Mayer, Caroline E. 2002. Add-Ons Add Up: Firms Are Finding New Ways To Tack Fees on Basic Bills. Washington Post (17 November): p. H 1. And there's another reason companies do add-ons: Consumers let them do it. Most of the time, consumers don't notice the extra fees -- or feel they are so small, they don't care. There are only a few times when consumers have protested, most notably after Sprint decided to charge some of its PCS wireless customers -- primarily those with poor credit ratings who were on a special price plan -- $3 when they wanted to speak to a customer-service representative. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: elections and the Korean experience
Doug's radio interview with Jomo also touched upon the Korean experience. He also attributed the change in Korean politics to the strength of the union movement. How have unions been more successful there than in the US? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: oops, again
I would be very interested to know if late fees or usurious interest rates are included. I have never heard anything about such inclusion. I would be very happy to learn more about it. On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 01:22:24PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: Michael Perelman wrote: Most of the fees and usurious interest rates and the like fall on the backs of the poor. Besides falling outside the CPI calculations, they also mean that the distribution of income is even more lopsided. How do you know they do? They should be included in the CPI calculations, based on the principles of the thing. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: oops, again
I called, but did not get the person Doug mentioned. a lower level person could not answer me because he had never heard of such a consideration, so I had to leave a message with someone else. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: oops, again
I would include check cashing businesses, rent to own, Doug, are you saying that they should or they are included? On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 02:56:01PM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: Daniel Davies wrote: they wouldn't, necessarily. Fees most certainly should be included. Usurious interest rates would be difficult to define in a world of 18-21% credit card rates. And if they're not changing, but just constantly high, it's a distributional issue, a form of secondary exploitation, but not really a CPI issue. But a fee added to a service that used to be free, or an increase in a fee, most certainly should be captured by the CPI. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Anti-regulatory controtions
The second paragraph is especially funny. Davis, Bob. 2004. With White House Ex-Staffers, Mercatus Helps Zap Codes It Says Restrict Business. Wall Street Journal (16 July): p. A 1. In 1998, Wendy Gramm, who headed the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs during the Reagan years, started Mercatus's regulatory review group. She hired a small staff of regulatory experts to work with economists at George Mason and elsewhere. Ms. Gramm, wife of former Texas Republican Sen. Phil Gramm, says Mercatus differs from special interests because it analyzes all impacts of rules with the public interest in mind. Over the past six years, Mercatus has filed 100 comments to 31 agencies on rules ranging from auto safety to financial regulation. Mercatus analysts sometimes contort themselves to build a case against regulation. Ms. Dudley and Ms. Gramm criticized one EPA rule to reduce surface ozone because the EPA didn't take into account that clearer skies would increase the rate of skin cancer. Later, two other Mercatus scholars blasted a different EPA rule on diesel engines, arguing that it was bad because it would increase surface ozone in some cities. This time they didn't say anything about the cancer-prevention benefits of more smog. We didn't go to the next step, Ms. Dudley acknowledges. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901
Re: oops factor
I mentioned something like this, but not as nasty a technique, a couple of weeks ago. My question then was how does this show up in the data, except as part of profits. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Productivity.
Suppose a Chinese girl makes a pair of Nikes for $2. Someone in the US puts them in a box and sells them for $150. The boxer is paid $2, but his productivity statistics will look fairly impressive, even considering the marketing management overhead. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
ditka
Alas he is registered in Florida -- see that Michael H. -- and will not run. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: US under fire at AIDS conference
Now all you have to do is add the fast food industry into the mix, getting them to add an antiobesity drug into their hamburgers. The Bushies are making noises about screening people for mental health -- to be treated with drugs. Fox News may also be a drug, but I have not seen the final study on the subject. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Mike Ditka
Is he really running for Senator? Charles Barkeley spoke about running for Alabama governor, but he dropped the matter. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Could Moore run afoul of campaign financing restrictions?
What about that movie that portrayed W as a 9-11 hero, which did have active Repug support. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: US under fire at AIDS conference
How can you defeat an alliance of Christian fundamentalists and the drug companies? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: US under fire at AIDS conference
That is why the drug companies are not happy with the conference, which wants access to cheap drugs. On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 06:26:06PM +0100, Daniel Davies wrote: OTOH, although this is an interesting scientific question, it has surprisingly few political implications. Although there are differences of opinion on how they work, the brute fact of the matter is that antiretroviral drugs do in fact work for AIDS patients, and nothing else does. So for the time being the only important political question revolves around preventing the global economic system from standing between the drugs and the people who need them. dd -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dmytri Kleiner Sent: 12 July 2004 18:01 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: US under fire at AIDS conference On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 10:01:11AM -0700, Michael Perelman wrote: How can you defeat an alliance of Christian fundamentalists and the drug companies? This is off topic but: --- qoutes --- If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact, at least with a high probability. There is no such document. Dr. Kary Mullis, Biochemist, 1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry. Up to today there is actually no single scientifically really convincing evidence for the existence of HIV. Not even once such a retrovirus has been isolated and purified by the methods of classical virology. Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger, Emeritus Professor of Molecular Biology and Virology, Max-Planck-Institutes for Biochemy, München. --- end --- I am not a scientist, but statements like these make me wonder about the whole AIDS thing. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: US under fire at AIDS conference
Duesberg, whom you quote, is a Professor of Molecular Biology University of Berkeley, not a medical scientist. He, alone with a colleague of mine -- a historian who has become a conservative activist -- have been among a handful of people who argue that HIV does not cause AIDS, but that it is a product of the evil lifestyle that they lead. I do not find their work credible, but I'm not a medical scientist either. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Klebnikov
How did they use each other? On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 05:06:28AM -0700, Chris Doss wrote: BTW the oligarchs and the Chechen Mafia are not mutually exclusive. Berezovsky's links to the Chechen militants are well-known. In fact, Klebnikov wrote a couple of whole books about it. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Spam fraud moves up a notch
Usually I get requests from the families of disgraced dictators. Now look who writes me. - Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:26:31 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Assistance from you Office of the Chairman The Independent Committee of Eminent Persons 20 rue de Candolle (3rd Floor), 1205 Geneva, Switzerland email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.icep-iaep.org : web My name is Paul A. Volker, Chairman Independent Committee of Eminent Persons (ICEP), Switzerland. ICEP is charged with the responsibility of finding bank accounts in Switzerland belonging to non-Swiss indigenes, which have remained dormant since World War II. It may interest you to know that in July of 1997, the Swiss Banker's Association published a list of dormant accounts originally opened by non-Swiss citizens. These accounts had been dormant since the end of World War II (May 9, 1945). Most belonged to Holocaust victims. The continuing efforts of the Independent Committee of Eminent Persons (ICEP) have since resulted in the discovery of additional dormant accounts - 54,000 in December, 1999. The published lists contain all types of dormant accounts, including interest-bearing savings accounts, securities accounts, safe deposit boxes, custody accounts, and non-interest-bearing transaction accounts. Numbered accounts are also included. Interest is paid on accounts that were interest bearing when established. The Claims Resolution Tribunal (CRT) handles processing of all claims on accounts due non-Swiss citizens. A dormant account of ORDNER ADELE with a credit balance of 35,000,000 US dollar plus accumulated interest was discovered by me. The beneficiary was murdered during the holocaust era, leaving no WILL and no possible records for trace of heirs. The Claims Resolution Tribunal has been mandated to report all unclaimed funds for permanent closure of accounts and transfer of existing credit balance into the treasury of Switzerland government as provided by the law for management of assets of deceased beneficiaries who died interstate (living no wills). Being a top executive at ICEP, I have all secret details and necessary contacts for claim of the funds without any hitch. The funds will be banked in an offshore bank which will be a tax free, safe haven for funds and we can share the funds and use in investment of our choice. Due to the sensitive nature of my job, I need a foreigner to HELP claim the funds. All that is required is for you to provide me with your details for processing of the necessary legal and administrative claim documents for transfer of the funds to you. Kindly provide me with your full name, address, and telephone/fax. I will pay all required fees to ensure that the fund is transferred to a secure, numbered account in your name in an offshore bank, of which you will be capable of accessing the funds gradually and transferring to your country and other banks of choice in the world. My share will be 60 percent and your share is 40 per cent of the total amount. THERE IS NO RISK INVOLVED. You can find additional information about unclaimed funds through the internet at the following websites: www.swissbankclaims.com http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9902/09/germany.holocaust/ www.avotaynu.com www.icheic.org www.livingheirs.com www.wiesenthal.com The Holocaust Claims Processing Office has put funds in Escrow awaiting submission of valid claims for necessary disbursement. I find myself privileged to have this information and this may be a great opportunity for a lifetime of success without risks. Due to security reasons, reply to me via email only. You may reply to me securely on the following email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for your prompt response. Paul A. Volker. - End forwarded message - -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
pen-l archives on csf shutting down
After many years, the csf archives -- in fact the whole csf system -- is going to disappear. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Don Roper Michael Yount for keeping it going. http://csf.colorado.edu/pen-l/ Some of you have not subscribed to pen-l directly, but only though the CSF site. You will need to directly subscribe from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fortunately, Hans Ehrbar has created another archive at http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/pen-l/index.htm -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
recovery fading
The New York Times is suggesting that the Bush boom might be fizzling. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/12/business/12slow.html -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Klebnikov
NPR also blames it on the oligarchs. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Africa should not pay its debts - Jeffrey Sachs
I wonder how many economists come to their work through political families. Paul Romer Sam Bowles come to mind. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
