more like Date's
fully-temporal tables.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
at the
estimate of the number of buffers that will be needed during the next
round. Buffers are written to meet that need if there aren't enough
reusable ones found while scanning.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Tom Lane wrote:
I think the main problem is the qualifying clause up front in a place
of prominence. Here's a V3 try
That one looks good to me. These are small details but better to get it
right now.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com
. It's certainly true that a
BCC controller greatly reduces the need for a separate spindle.
It can be handy to keep it seperate anyway because it makes it trivial to
track WAL I/O vs. database I/O.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
that period (DB
writes will still be mostly cached by the OS just after a checkpoint) it
can be messy compared to what you get with a dedicated WAL. But that will
average out to a minimal effect on TPS over the course of the test.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
. In the short-term, you're already exposed to
the problem when walking down this road because of the edit to the startup
script that creates the symlink in the first place. For some people
that's also a tweak to a script that could be updated in a conflicting
way.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
will impact that.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
http://archives.postgresql.org
that will
happen--there's nothing about SELinux that anybody does just for fun.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire
a source RPM and
do their own diff just to figure out what was changed from the base.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send
can customize a
reasonable setup on some other distributions.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
presuming it's the archive process that used to have that pid might be bad
form.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http
application
before that matters more than the fact that the current Xeons are faster
in general.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives
today--by the time 8.4 is mainstream high-end machines will
be even faster. Wanna make a bet on how much disk throughput will be
available as SSD disks go mainstream in the next two years?
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end
of what I do that's in that category, it's just a bit too
expensive to do yet; soon, though.
Just trying to usefully estimate where the edge of that back of the
envelope should go to.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end
-hackers/2007-11/msg00706.php gives
more background on this topic.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
there. Starting
from scratch, going right to the hardware counters and building from
there, is a big project--they've been hacking on oprofile for almost six
years now and still aren't suggesting it's release quality yet.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
that was on his system and why
it wasn't representative of the larger problem. You need at least a basic
amount of write caching for this situation before the problem moves to
being read seek bound.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
on it (OS+DB+WAL) at home to at least
get close to a real server.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
to have a spike, it probably won't be as big though. Your
call on whether correcting that mischaracterization is worth bothering the
translators over.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
: http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgloader/
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining
spread, it's got smooth, and if I could have worked silky in
there too I would have.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
the one that says how much data was written.
Did you ever write something to save snapshots of pg_stat_bgwriter?
Those would be interesting to see on the same time scale as well.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
and buildfarm integration is a whole
different topic. But I have made a first move here and only need the
hardware to become available before I can produce something useful with
it.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
this was even a serious
candidate for applying to 8.3. Seemed like too much of a functional
change for slipping in this late and I presumed it was just going into the
8.4 queue.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
during April
There were also several changes to pgbench itself that month. Useful
breakpoints in that month to subdivide might be 2007-04-08 (after varlena
change), 2007-04-17, 2007-04-22.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
. I'd at least like to
see that change and an official log tail cleaning mechanism both available
before considering a change to the default WAL size.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
for a
difference of this size. I'd suggest running select count(*) from x on
a couple of the big tables as one way to get a feel for whether the
underlying disk is delivering at the same speed in both installations.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
integer math (which in some cases
uses as you suggest) as part of the Java standard library:
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Random.html#nextInt(int)
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
; it doesn't change anything related to the checkpoint writes.
In fact, since those LRU writes are going on at the same time as the
checkpoint ones, increasing the multiplier too much can make the
checkpoint I/O spike worse. It's unlikely that higher values will
decrease the spike.
--
* Greg
optimizer hint argument, where there
certainly exist some edge cases where people know something the optimizer
doesn't which changes the optimal behavior.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
the rest
of what you'd need.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
in there that didn't work right when I last tested.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
to search
usefully, one option is to set log_rotation_size so that doesn't happen.
As for real-rime, I do this all the time with some variant on
tail -f log | grep user
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
that there's value to producing a more general
solution to how to handle this sort of monitoring.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives
if the underlying components are tuned
properly. Sadly I don't actually know enough about that area to write
such a test myself.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0
circled back to assigning blame to
the individual options, but I'd suggest some caution here before turning
one of these on by default. I'd want to see benchmarking on a couple of
platforms to prove that it doesn't slow things down before making such a
change.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
some changes Heikki made just before the load
distributed checkpoint patch was commited. Before that, it was hard to
implement this feature; afterwards, it was too late to fit the change into
the 8.3 release. Should be easy enough to add to 8.4 one day.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
that writes sorted by
usage count during idle periods
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
for the clients
that get caught behind it, making it any sort of sync write will be far
worse.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your
are a giant QA and maintenance mess.
Better to have less of them that each add larger features rather than a
more regular stream of small ones from where I'm sitting.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
, but
it will take an advocate willing to start down this trail for a particular
tool to kick off a serious investigation of any of them.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze
thing onto pgfoundry will make it even harder to
get certain type of corporate customers to use pg_standby, which is a
clear step backwards as far as I'm concerned.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
onto the one page, then delete the relevant commits
from the other. When the changelog page is empty, then everything is
documented.
I didn't actually start doing this though as I didn't want to dump any
more time into a process that may not actually be used.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
be a welcome improvement, and I could help out with
that.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan
the
documentation to reflect what's now been commited, and to see how this
stacks on top of HOT running pgbench on my test system.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9
tool rely on it when looking at regular processes.
It's also worth noting that there's a similar Linux utility called gstack.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Have you
= 1.0
#bgwriter_lru_percent = 5
The main thing I've noticed so far is that as you decrease bgwriter_delay
from the default of 200ms, the multiplier has needed to be larger to
maintain the same cleaner percentage in my tests.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007, Greg Smith wrote:
Here's the results I got when I pushed the time down significantly from the
defaults
info | set | tps | cleaner_pct
---+-+--+-
jit multiplier=1.0
this, because it will lower efficiency considerably, but it may be the
most straightforward way to get the more timely I/O path you're obviously
looking for.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
.
If anyone has a reason why they feel the bgwriter_delay needs to be a
tunable or why the rate might need to run even faster than 10ms, now would
be a good time to say why.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
are working with could
show significant benefit from running the BGW that often.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire
. Definately something that might fit
into 8.4, completely impossible for 8.3.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
can make it
and still serve its purpose, while not feeling to me like it's too fast
for a relatively idle system even if someone set maxpages=1000.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP
tuning plan using the data in
there, particularly compared to the the impossibility of creating such a
plan in the current code.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget
that system isn't available
to me anymore.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating at
http://www.postgresql.org
buffers will be scanned and written within that
time bound. That's certainly not the case; both the maxpages and the
usage count information will actually drive the speed that mechanism plods
through the buffer cache. It really isn't useful for scanning fast.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
while he removed the all-scan writer
altogether as part of committing LDC. I suspect the path I was following
was exactly what you think you'd like to have, but it seems that it's not
actually needed.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
day that dragged things out, but with
useful improvements.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating at
http
8.3 in beta, because if you come from a world-view where the 8.2.4
background writer was never successful it's hard to figure out a starting
point for comparing it to the one in 8.3. Maybe I'll spark some ideas
when I get the rest of my data out here soon.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED
a maximum theoretical
write rate for the BGW of 4MB/s, which isn't very much relative to modern
hardware.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
jit-cleaner.patch.gz
Description: Binary data
buf-alloc-2.patch.gz
Description: Binary data
of the underlying disks haven't kept pace, and that gap has been making
this particular problem worse every year.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
to dump a big stack of 8.3 data onto the list I'd
appreciate some attention from you on, rather than having you distracted
cleaning up documentation that's perfectly functional for now.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end
that the people who might help
confirm/deny what I've discovered are as focused as I've been on trying to
wrap all this up already, before wandering into new tangents that aren't
already blocking the schedule. That's all I'm saying.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
but will be with the final patch
soon) also report worst-case and 90-th percentile latency numbers as well
as TPS. A regression that improved TPS at the expense of those two
would not be considered an improvement by anyone involved here.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
often have relatively
old kernels), the OS is not as smart as everyone would like to to be in
this area.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL
that does bgwrites only just in time
seems like what we need to aim at.
And that's exactly what I've been building. Feedback and general feeling
that I'm doing the right thing appreciated, am returning to the code with
scaling factor as a new tunable but plan otherwise unchanged.
--
* Greg Smith
: No Kevin, your old background writer
is already dead. You'd have to produce some really unexpected and
compelling results during the beta period for it to get put back again.
The work I'm still doing here is very much fine-tuning in comparision to
what's already been committed into 8.3.
--
* Greg
if my patch is
rejected on that basis. That's why I wanted to get the big picture
painted in this message while I finish up the work necessary to submit it,
'cause if the whole idea is doomed anyway I might as well stop now.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
,
it actually reacts faster than that--if the most recent allocation is
greater than the average, it uses that instead. The number of samples has
more of an impact on the trailing side, and accordingly isn't that
critical.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
have a
checkpoint with your current configuration, and how big your
shared_buffers is to get a general context for the size/frequency of
potential checkpoint problems.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
where it's possible 8.3 may be a step
backwards. Not likely, just possible, and it would be great to get
another data point on this during the beta.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
; I'll take Bruce's message as a call to urgent action to
finish and submit my final results ASAP.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore
, there is very little
tree-structure to this data that justifies the extra complexity.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
There are also some fairly impressive code obfuscators about, that your
clients might find useful.
All they really need is to find a sufficiently clever PL/Perl programmer.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
with.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
and
needing a CVS commit to make any changes.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
searches is trumped by the reduced potential for locking
contention, as appears to be the case in Sun's situation here.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading
was completely
identical. I'd need to see a lot more than one test result suggesting
otherwise before I'd believe that CentOS is slower in general than the
RHEL it's derived from.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
that part, but if you put it someplace that's
not level you may not ever get what you wanted no matter how much work you
put into it later. That's why I thought it was important to at least talk
through the Linux distribution topic, so everyone was aware of the
trade-offs involved.
--
* Greg
for being able to confirm results apply
to multiple Linux distributions in the future. You might even put a BSD
or Solaris in that space one day.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
consulting clients nervous. Go RedHat!
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
-level differences between the
two that I'd hate to see you put resources into improving scaling, only to
discover it doesn't actually help what you put into production because the
platform is too different.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
, I'd expect it's impractical to do that and
target long-term results stability at the same time.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map
visible (odds
are good other people are running into the issue as well), reproducible on
other builds, and you can get plenty of help resolving them.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP
repositories is that they're not as wide.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating at
http://www.postgresql.org/about
want a set of 3 at each configuration because even with longer runs,
you occasionally get really odd results. Until you have 3 it can be
unclear which is the weird one.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast
that gets applied. Once HOT
wraps up that loose end should get snipped easily enough.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL project by donating
an implementation of
distributed queries if your table has a type of key such that you split
across it, but it's relatively immature software and you would have to
look at it very carefully to see if that parallel query implementation
could fit your needs.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
of this post, everything you said
matches the direction I've been trudging toward.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
I'm not sure what order the patches at at
http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:PatchStatus were listed in
before, but it seemed to me they'd be a whole lot more useful sorted by
the remaining actions on them--so that's what I did.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
as part of the merge conflict confusion from the edit he did
before I was finished proofreading.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send
the transaction mix. What happens when you do that right now is that
inevitably all the clients get blocked at once on whatever the hardest to
execute transaction is, and the results are kind of deceptive as a result.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
the iterations based on that.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so
more
data; for now I just wanted to join Heikki in confirming that the strategy
of trying to get the LRU cleaner to ride right behind the strategy point
can really waste a whole lot of writes.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
there's less of
the most useful blocks being swapped out only to be re-allocated again
later.
Since the bad bgwriter tunings reduce TPS, I believe that's the mechanism
by which there are more allocations needed. I'll try to keep an eye on
this now that you've brought it up.
--
* Greg Smith
a multiplication approach for the computation.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
some more complicated smoothing.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
wrote before, but there's certainly room for
multiple implementations of that part of the code to evolve.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 7: You can help support the PostgreSQL
Here are some more recent papers that also give good insight into research
in this area:
http://www.cs.usask.ca/~wew036/comprehensive.pdf
http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/hpcs/WWW/HTML/publications/papers/TR-05-3.pdf
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
that up to
closer to a 1.2GB footprint.
--
* Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL
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