All,
For anyone who cares, we have some unscientific results on the system
views survey:
http://www.postgresql.org/community/survey.60
--Josh
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On Mar 4, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
Back on that track, I'd like to see a facility whereby we could
provide an alias (or synonym, to use a nearby subject) columns and
other objects. That would help to overcome naming glitches without
breaking things quite so much.
Believe it or
Simon Riggs wrote:
The most consistent negative feedback I receive about Postgres is that
we make minor changes from release to release that make it extremely
difficult to upgrade without re-testing the applications. So we write
great software, then make it difficult for people to upgrade to it.
On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 08:33 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Simon Riggs wrote:
The most consistent negative feedback I receive about Postgres is that
we make minor changes from release to release that make it extremely
difficult to upgrade without re-testing the applications. So we write
On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 08:41 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 08:33 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
The first step is to record incompatibilities as they occur and record
them somewhere, so that people can say that'll break my app. Often the
first people hear about these things
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 12:32 -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but I want
to do it anyway.
On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 01:27 +, Andrew Gierth wrote:
Now, of course, counting the upcoming 8.4 there have been three (and a
bit - the original design predates 8.1, though it did anticipate some
8.1 features) new releases against which the original concept can be
tested. And, guess what,
Simon == Simon Riggs si...@2ndquadrant.com writes:
Now, of course, counting the upcoming 8.4 there have been three
(and a bit - the original design predates 8.1, though it did
anticipate some 8.1 features) new releases against which the
original concept can be tested. And, guess what,
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 08:46:28AM +, Simon Riggs wrote:
On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 01:27 +, Andrew Gierth wrote:
Now, of course, counting the upcoming 8.4 there have been three (and a
bit - the original design predates 8.1, though it did anticipate some
8.1 features) new releases
On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 07:28 -0700, David Fetter wrote:
Would it be better to publish them as an external project?
It's been an external project, newsysviews, since before 8.1 came out.
I think it's time to bring it in from the cold. Call the new schema
pg_sysviews, plop it in there, and
On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 15:02 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 07:28 -0700, David Fetter wrote:
Would it be better to publish them as an external project?
It's been an external project, newsysviews, since before 8.1 came out.
I think it's time to bring it in from the
Joshua == Joshua D Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes:
On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 15:02 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
Yeh Andrew said. That I never noticed in the last 3+ years makes
me think there's not many people using it...
The fact that it never got beyond an early incomplete alpha version
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Andrew Gierth
and...@tao11.riddles.org.uk wrote:
Other than some experiments in getting it to load on 8.2, there hasn't
been any serious work done on it since May 2005, which is when it was
presented (and shot down) on -hackers.
If memory serves (and it may
On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 13:59 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
If this is the worst inconsistency you can find in our system tables
after +20 years of development, I feel pretty good.
I was using a single example. This would be a large project I am sure
and of course we should feel good. In all I
If this is the worst inconsistency you can find in our system tables
after +20 years of development, I feel pretty good.
---
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Hello,
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 02:35:52PM -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net writes:
I think this sounds a lot like another request for a set of system views
with nicer names.
What's the state of the newsysviews project, anyway? I don't recall
hearing
Hello,
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but I want
to do it anyway. In order to do that I believe we need to come up with a
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Hello,
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but I want
to do it anyway. In order to do that I believe
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote:
Hello,
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 15:50 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
It seems to me that the best method would be to follow the
information_schema naming conventions as information_schema is standard
compliant (right?).
Thoughts?
What would be the benefit? Apart from satisfying a passion
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 21:01 +, Dave Page wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com
wrote:
Hello,
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100%
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote:
I assume you'll be putting in the weeks/months of work required to fix
pgAdmin phpPgAdmin which would be far better spent on new features
than uglifying the code in far nastier ways than the current state of
the
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 21:14 +, Dave Page wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com
wrote:
*Shrug* long term consistency is the better choice.
Easy to say if you're not one of the people for whom such a change
would mean weeks of recoding, the need
In response to Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com
wrote:
I assume you'll be putting in the weeks/months of work required to fix
pgAdmin phpPgAdmin which would be far better spent on new features
than uglifying the code
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote:
It is not easy to say. It is correct to say. I am under no illusion that
this will not be painful. As far as man weeks of recoding. Sorry, I
know that will be tough.
It'll be a complete and utter waste of time, and
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes:
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but I want
to do it anyway. In order to do
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Bill Moran wmo...@potentialtech.com wrote:
In response to Dave Page dp...@pgadmin.org:
Don't those folks have to tweak their code with each new release anyway?
Because those tables are constantly changing? I know we hit problems
with the way triggers are
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 21:27 +, Dave Page wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com
wrote:
It is not easy to say. It is correct to say. I am under no illusion that
this will not be painful. As far as man weeks of recoding. Sorry, I
know that will
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 16:28 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes:
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 21:27 +, Dave Page wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com
wrote:
It is not easy to say. It is correct to say. I am under no illusion that
this will not be painful. As far as man weeks of recoding. Sorry,
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote:
It would lower the cost (intellectually as well as dollars) of
development and administration for every single user of the
database.
-1
Any savings couldn't possibly pay for the cost and pain of this, at
least in our shop.
I can't count how
Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net writes:
I think this sounds a lot like another request for a set of system views
with nicer names.
What's the state of the newsysviews project, anyway? I don't recall
hearing much about it lately.
regards, tom lane
--
Sent via
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Hello,
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but I want
to do it anyway. In order to do that I believe we
Tom Lane wrote:
Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net writes:
I think this sounds a lot like another request for a set of system views
with nicer names.
What's the state of the newsysviews project, anyway? I don't recall
hearing much about it lately.
Final verdict was that we need to make it
Well, honestly, this was one of the reasons why AndrewSN, David and I
... and Elein ...
pushed NewSysViews. Non-hackers really shouldn't be accessing the
system catalogs directly, and if information_schema doesn't give them
enough data, we should start adding new views to I_S.
--
Sent
Bill,
You could always take a survey ... bosses love surveys ...
Done: http://wwwmaster.postgresql.org/community/
--Josh
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Josh Berkus wrote:
Well, honestly, this was one of the reasons why AndrewSN, David and I
... and Elein ...
pushed NewSysViews. Non-hackers really shouldn't be accessing the
system catalogs directly, and if information_schema doesn't give them
enough data, we should start adding new
Andrew Dunstan and...@dunslane.net wrote:
Back on that track, I'd like to see a facility whereby we could
provide
an alias (or synonym, to use a nearby subject) columns and other
objects. That would help to overcome naming glitches without breaking
things quite so much.
How is that
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:
You could always take a survey ... bosses love surveys ...
Done: http://wwwmaster.postgresql.org/community/
Is there some assumed relationship between those options and whether
they'd like to see the names changed?
Also, it's hard to pick what option
Andrew,
Back on that track, I'd like to see a facility whereby we could provide
an alias (or synonym, to use a nearby subject) columns and other
objects. That would help to overcome naming glitches without breaking
things quite so much.
Believe it or not, a large PostgreSQL user in LA just
Kevin Grittner wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:
You could always take a survey ... bosses love surveys ...
Done: http://wwwmaster.postgresql.org/community/
Is there some assumed relationship between those options and whether
they'd like to see the names changed?
Also, it's hard
On Mar 4, 2009, at 6:07 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
Andrew,
Back on that track, I'd like to see a facility whereby we could
provide an alias (or synonym, to use a nearby subject) columns and
other objects. That would help to overcome naming glitches without
breaking things quite so much.
Tom == Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us writes:
Magnus Hagander mag...@hagander.net writes:
I think this sounds a lot like another request for a set of system
views with nicer names.
Tom What's the state of the newsysviews project, anyway? I don't
Tom recall hearing much about it lately.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote:
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs. Now I am fully and
100% aware that changing this will break things in user land but I want
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Something that continues to grind my teeth about our software is that we
are horribly inconsistent with our system catalogs.
I'd suggest staring at the gyrations required to do an in-place upgrade,
then considering how the changes you're suggesting
* Robert Haas (robertmh...@gmail.com) wrote:
Like everyone else who has responded to this thread, I think this is a
pretty terrible idea.
[...]
+1 on Robert's assessment from me. I'm generally a huge fan of doing
the right thing, but as my boss often likes to point out, you need to
pick your
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