Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 21/04/17 15:22, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: its ironic you say this Stephan and the irony is that you claim that Dark Theme is inappropriate because Pharo uses so many hard coded colours when it was Esteban's effort to have a dark theme that decreased the amount of hard coded methods and

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

its ironic you say this Stephan and the irony is that you claim that Dark Theme is inappropriate because Pharo uses so many hard coded colours when it was Esteban's effort to have a dark theme that decreased the amount of hard coded methods and modified them to support themes. The very reason

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 21/04/17 13:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman > wrote: On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > wrote: > You know what

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

How you could support democracy then putting smiles besides "no democracy"? I don't get it. Maybe you like dictatorship, good for you. I don't like them, benevolent or not. You read stories in books. I had born in a military regime, me and my parents lived it, so what do you want to teach me about

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis > wrote: > > You know what amazes me about this discussion ? > > > > not one even bothered posting > > a single screenshot demonstration all these

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM Hernán Morales Durand < hernan.mora...@gmail.com> wrote: > Then don't talk about democracy, because you weren't born at Ottoman > Empire nor Nazi occupation, and many of us actually were born and lived > under military dictatorship. > I am perplexed from your

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Then more respect for the word, because many people gave their life for it. 2017-04-21 7:52 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > in fact, Greece had a pretty hard dictatorship from '67 to '74 > > On 21 Apr 2017, at 12:40, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > I

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

in fact, Greece had a pretty hard dictatorship from '67 to '74 > On 21 Apr 2017, at 12:40, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > I think that 300 years of enslavement by the Ottoman Empire gave us (as a > nation) a pretty good idea , plus the Great Fire of Smyrna, plus Nazi >

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > You know what amazes me about this discussion ? > > not one even bothered posting > a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one . To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :) :P

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Then don't talk about democracy, because you weren't born at Ottoman Empire nor Nazi occupation, and many of us actually were born and lived under military dictatorship. So next time think twice before putting a smile besides "no democracy". 2017-04-21 7:40 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

I see in 60467 that the deed is done. Okay, so moving forward... be prepared ;) for a surge of feedback as a bunch of us dark-theme-newbies start using it in earnest. I understand those that been using it a while already are obviously happy with how its tuned, and probably not many things can be

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

For the mooc we have normally an image: it is called Pharo 50. S. On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Mark Bestley wrote: > Dimitris Chloupis > wrote: > > > --001a113a8620c74f7a054d5aba55 > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > Not before

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > --001a113a8620c74f7a054d5aba55 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Not before IMMEDIATELY realizing that all screenshots containing the white > theme are outdated and will IMMEDIATELY prefer the dark ones that will have > an updated

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > --94eb2c190338e56e92054d34764f > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Wow guys seriously it's a setting , not the end of the world . Completely > agree with Cyril , I find white theme terrible and I never imagined making > such a big fuss

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 16/04/17 23:27, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: On 16/04/2017 23:13, Stephan Eggermont wrote: We do not break things a week before the release. We break them a week after the release. Otherwise, why bother. Stephan As I asked in my previous mail, what is broken? There are 214 instances of the

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 16/04/2017 23:13, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > We do not break things a week before the release. We break them a week > after the release. Otherwise, why bother. > > Stephan > As I asked in my previous mail, what is broken? In Pharo 4 there is broken things. In Pharo 6 I don't see what is

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 16/04/17 20:53, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: Also, I use the dark theme since almost two years and I don't remember having problems. Do you have examples? Within two minutes I found a non-themed visualization in Moose. The switching works a lot better than last time I looked at dark theme.

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 16/04/17 20:53, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: And last, when a new version of a programming language is out, we do not expect all applications to be up to date with the language at the time of the release. We do not break things a week before the release. We break them a week after the release.

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Yes it's actually more than that. It's called Nireas and I think it's the only theme that comes with its own GUI that allows to customize its colors , so it's very flexible. It's available at Package Browser On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 21:53, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > did

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 16/04/2017 20:31, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > Sorry, but that does not make sense to me. I've only heard complaints > about dependent projects not honoring theme color settings, and I've > never been able to switch themes actually work without leaving artifacts > behind. I agree it makes sense

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

did you publish the blue theme as an autonomous package? On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > Me too, even my blue theme is nothing more than a customization of dark > theme. Plus dark theme is based on darcula dark theme which is by far the > most

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Hi Norbert, 2017-04-16 13:28 GMT-03:00 Norbert Hartl : > I wonder why voting is considered something good. To me voting is rather a > last resort strategy. > Voting is taking power without the need for having an opinion nor any > reason. To me the sense of voting is to make

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

I wonder why voting is considered something good. To me voting is rather a last resort strategy. Voting is taking power without the need for having an opinion nor any reason. To me the sense of voting is to make most people feel empowered/comfortable. And the outcome is often poor or even

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote: > Can people just explain to my why we have so many big threads each time > a default settings is changed? > Law of triviality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality Because its natural to have

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Me too, even my blue theme is nothing more than a customization of dark theme. Plus dark theme is based on darcula dark theme which is by far the most popular dark theme out there. On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 14:27, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > clement esteban is using the dark

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

clement esteban is using the dark theme since several years phil too. No new code! On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Clément Bera wrote: > Isn't a couple days before release a bit late to change the default theme > ? Aren't we in feature freeze mode ? > > If for

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Life can be very UNFAIR but I don't see how it is related to the previously expressed opinions about what people fell. Le 15/04/2017 à 17:07, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : > behavior. I'm just thinking that it is UNFAIR -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Totally agree Phil even on the documentation front we are light years ahead of version 2. I think it will become a problem that Pharo improves to fast, but that's a blessing problem.kudos to the amazing work of Pharo devs . On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 at 21:32, p...@highoctane.be

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Isn't a couple days before release a bit late to change the default theme ? Aren't we in feature freeze mode ? If for marketing it makes sense to switch to the dark theme, then let's switch to dark theme. But why not switching for Pharo 7 instead ? Instability is bad for marketing anyway, isn't

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Bah, I made GTSpotter dark theme work with SublimishTheme and got the "yeah, for Pharo7". It is pissing me off but what can I say, just follow what is released. Compare Pharo 1 and Pharo 6. Worlds apart. I hope this continues. Phil On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

BTW, if you open the welcome help that users will see after opening of Pharo 6, you will realize, that switching of the theme to white one is matter of one click: WelcomeHelp openForRelease Cheers, -- Pavel 2017-04-15 18:18 GMT+02:00 Hernán Morales Durand : > Hey

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Hey Hilaire, Not afraid at all, because I know where the changes come from. Take a look at the SmalltalkHub users/projects and how many contribute back to pharo-dev and you will understand. Hernán 2017-04-15 11:04 GMT-03:00 Hilaire : > May be Herman is expressing some level

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

There is no voting for such default. Why because this is marketing! I do not like the black theme but I find the white one not good either. And we need to have a different look. So you will add a preference script to set it back to white and perfect. I fully agree with Cyril. If one day we set a

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Hilaire We are porting Moose in max two days for each version and it is around 150 packages. Now if you want to be able to use Athens then one guy as to fix FFI if you want to use Spur, 64bits. So such kind of rants are totally useless, counterproductive and our community deserves more. I

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

> Am 15.04.2017 um 16:39 schrieb Stephan Eggermont : > > On 15/04/17 16:02, Norbert Hartl wrote: >> And comparing the capability of building >> contrasts with colors, dark colors win, sorry. At least that were the >> last researches I've read. > > Which ones?

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 15/04/17 16:02, Norbert Hartl wrote: And comparing the capability of building contrasts with colors, dark colors win, sorry. At least that were the last researches I've read. Which ones? https://webstandards.hhs.gov/guidelines/106 seems pretty clear. Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

May be Herman is expressing some level of frustrations resulting from important changes occurring in the system release after release. Your listing of changes may afraid him even more ;-) >From my point of view, Pharo is changing too fast to follow what's up and to adapt code. I am still lagging

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

> Am 15.04.2017 um 15:35 schrieb webwarrior : > > All major desktop OSes have light theme by default. Most web sites have white > or light background and dark text. Almost all PDF documents have white > background. > > Switching between dark and light themed applications

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Ah, the tips are readable at least. Just kidding ;) Good job. Hilaire Le 14/04/2017 à 09:09, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : > I wanted to let you know that we talked at the board and we want to make the > DarkTheme a default for Pharo 6.0. > This is just because we want to have a visual immediate

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

All major desktop OSes have light theme by default. Most web sites have white or light background and dark text. Almost all PDF documents have white background. Switching between dark and light themed applications puts strain on the eyes. So it's not just aesthetic preference. Dark theme will be

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Wow guys seriously it's a setting , not the end of the world . Completely agree with Cyril , I find white theme terrible and I never imagined making such a big fuss for a setting. You guys need to chill out. Lol at Phil , funny and true. On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 at 15:45, p...@highoctane.be

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 15/04/17 14:43, p...@highoctane.be wrote: Make it default so that it will bother people enough to fix the glitches. That is fine to do for half a year starting with Pharo 7. I'm all in favor of making changes in development that help us improve. It is definitely not a good idea to make sure

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Make it default so that it will bother people enough to fix the glitches. Phil On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > On 15 Apr 2017, at 13:41, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > > > > On 14/04/17 09:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> I

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

A final point I cannot work with the dark theme. But the interest of Pharo is more important that own little ego. I will try and put a preference if I fail. Why because we need to have a different look for the version and I proposed this change!! Stef On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Hernán

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Hi Hernan Why are you always so negative? Do you think that this is easy? Inria paid Denis to build a remote tool suite for ***research purpose*** and we discovered that a new remote invocation framework was needed and that they were far too many discussions between the model and the view. Denis

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Le 15/04/2017 à 14:23, Stephan Eggermont a écrit : > On 15/04/17 13:48, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> It is a matter of taste, of course, but after 5 major releases with >> White Themes, an alternative is more than welcome. > > Mostly because it is not a matter of taste. For most people (there

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 15/04/17 13:48, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: It is a matter of taste, of course, but after 5 major releases with White Themes, an alternative is more than welcome. Mostly because it is not a matter of taste. For most people (there are several eye problems where it is not the case), a dark

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Can people just explain to my why we have so many big threads each time a default settings is changed? I understand that some settings need a certain default value when it come for discover-ability of a feature. But why so many noise for feature that are totally taste dependent? The principle of

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

> On 15 Apr 2017, at 13:41, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > > On 14/04/17 09:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> I wanted to let you know that we talked at the board and we want to make the >> DarkTheme a default for Pharo 6.0. >> This is just because we want to have a visual

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 15/04/17 10:19, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: I am a huge supporter of Dark Themes, they are friendlier to the health of the eye and much friendlier to the environment too. Their objective value cannot be questioned. But as always personal taste plays a role here. All science shows otherwise.

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On 14/04/17 09:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: I wanted to let you know that we talked at the board and we want to make the DarkTheme a default for Pharo 6.0. This is just because we want to have a visual immediate reference of changing things (yeah, marketing ;) ) No. Please revert that

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Why not have a "mini-config" sort of splash screen (as Squeak now does) and let the user select? In that mini-config we can proudly announce 10 timesRepeat: [ 'Pharo 6 is out ! (and it is great)'] cheers Nacho - Nacho Smalltalker apprentice. Buenos Aires, Argentina. -- View this message

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Thats the illusion of people who complain , because they are so vocal , they think they are a majority when actually they are a small minority. I call this "The tyranny of noise". Its in our nature to focus on the noise and ignore the silence. I am a huge supporter of Dark Themes, they are

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

2017-04-14 8:44 GMT-03:00 Denis Kudriashov : > > 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > >> Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. >> We should vote for such kind of changes. >> >> >> no, this is not how it

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

tx pavel! We need a look that we can identify pharo 60 as pharo 60 :) On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > > > 2017-04-14 13:48 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov : > >> >> 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

2017-04-14 13:48 GMT+02:00 Denis Kudriashov : > > 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > >> But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI >> widgets/projects which looks horrible in dark. And people probably test >> them in

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

On Apr 14, 2017 14:11, "Denis Kudriashov" wrote: Maybe I am alone who do not like the dark theme. I'm also a fan of the white team. Can't really use the dark one. Cheers, Andrei But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI widgets/projects which

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

2017-04-14 13:46 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > But look is different. You just open Pharo and have impression is it > looks good or not. Voting can work here. > > > yeah, but is impossible to satisfy everybody… specially in non-technical > stuff :) > It is important to

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:44, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > > > 2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano >: >> Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. We >> should vote for such kind of

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

2017-04-14 13:27 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano : > Also I am really wondering that this decision was not publicly discussed. > We should vote for such kind of changes. > > > no, this is not how it works. > yes, it is how it could work :) Current approach is not bad for

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:27, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > >> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:10, Denis Kudriashov > > wrote: >> >> Maybe I am alone who do not like the dark theme. > > you can put a preference to switch it back.

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:10, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > > Maybe I am alone who do not like the dark theme. you can put a preference to switch it back. > But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI > widgets/projects which looks horrible in dark. And

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

Maybe I am alone who do not like the dark theme. But to me it is too late for such change. I am sure there are UI widgets/projects which looks horrible in dark. And people probably test them in pharo 6 before this change. So they will be very surprised. Also I am really wondering that this