[Phono-L] Variety in collecting.
ok, kids, let's try a little harder to keep it sweet. just because listmom Loran is away doesn't mean we can get all snipe-crazy. there's no accounting for taste, and it's easy to poke fun at other folks' stuff. in this case though, it has the small chance of affecting the dollars realized, so perhaps it's best to shush til the auction closes. others have said this in other ways, but let me echo the sentiment that one of the best things about this hobby is that there is such variety and many little niches we can each gravitate towards. me, i like Cheneys, for all their poor acoustics, gutta-percha diaphragms, and bombastic ad copy. there, i went and said it. feel free to go nuts with the cheney-disparagement now...it's part of the package! -- peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] commercial - record auction closing soon
oops. everyone, cover your eyes! jim...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear Mr. Hawthorn: I mailed in my bids several days ago trust you have received them by now. Is the gold-plated new-old dealer's stock Edisonic diamond disc reproducer all original? I have heard horror stories of Edison diamond disc reproducers being sold as new-old dealer stock but which had their original stylus bar with mint diamond tips replaced with stylus bars with worn tips. I want to be sure the stylus in the reproducer is original its tip in mint condition. Also, I'd like to know how well it plays - some of my diamond disc reproducers rattle on loud high notes or loud lower pipe organ notes. If the reproducer you are offering is all original does play well on demanding Edison diamond disc records, I would like to raise my bid on it to $ 257.77. Also I want to raise my bid on the Stokowski/Philadelphia Orchestra Firebird Suite to $ 47.77 for the two records. Please respond to this message let me know that my bid letter has been received. Thanking you sending you all good wishes... Ve ry truly yours, Ji m Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. [Original Message] From: Hawthorn's Antique Audio hawth...@thoseoldrecords.com To: Maillist Phono-L phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 9/24/2007 6:03:46 PM Subject: [Phono-L] commercial - record auction closing soon Hi Everyone, Just a reminder - if you have received our record auction #120, it will be closing this Friday, September 28. Email bids are welcome! Thanks, Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn's Antique Audio www.thoseoldrecords.com hawth...@thoseoldrecords.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date: 9/22/2007 1:27 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] FInal Determination re Oak Horn
lots of hand-wringing going on over this! what i always do is ask myself whether the object is something that pleases me and whether i can live with it - either long- or short-term - until a nicer one comes along. and then i decide whether i think the price paid is good value or not. and from there i keep or return it. and if it's a stop-gap, it gets rolled over when the nicer one comes along. buy the new nicer one and sell the old lesser one. this can range from getting a reproducer with nicer plating, to selling the old solid-door Victor 10-50 and replacing it with one with a glass panel in the left door. this practice has served me well over the years. we've got a decent collection, costs are minimized, and the house isn't full of too much extra junk or duplicates. so if you like looking at it, and feel the value is reasonable, keep it, otherwise send it back. -- peter john robles wrote: Seeing the other horns it is hard for me to tell what's right and what's not...hmmm..What really amazes me and makes me think twice is that the great majority don't seem to feel the veneer pattern oddities are a great concern, I am finding that the seams are more a concern. John phonofo...@aol.com wrote: HI John: I can tell you are not happy with the ebay horn. I say return it bacause you will never be happy with the way the horn is veneered on the outside. Note that Marty's horn, shown on his website,?is split at the bell. Be patient a good horn will come your way. They are not rare. -Original Message- From: john robles To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:00 pm Subject: [Phono-L] FInal Determination re Oak Horn Hi All Here is a link to two photos. Horn A is mine, Horn B is on sale by Marty Roenigk. Not the difference - his has staves without the patched in areas that are evident on mine. SO I take it that those long triangular areas on mine (horn A) ARE repairs, correct??? http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/Oak%20Horn/ Thanks!!! John ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] URL for A-250 images
guys, just copy-paste the thing into your browser, if it isn't clickable. don't try to type anything unless you're paying attention to the details. or if your mail client has cut the thing into multiple lines and you can't manually re-assemble it, try this shortened version: http://tinyurl.com/2vxl8c in any case, it will challenge you for a password, and you should paste or type this: pook2e in that field. if you still can't get it, you'll need to send me a plane ticket and your street address. -- peter Andrew Baron wrote: The correct address is the same as what you have here, but you should capitalize the P as well as the A in PhotoAlbum. Or just try to click on this link: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/ PhotoAlbum233.html Note that either way, there is no www. Directions from Peter Fraser on accessing these photos: the password is pook2e (no quotes). For large-scale versions of the pix, use the slideshow button, or single-click the individual shot in which you're interested. Let me know how it goes. Andy On Jun 25, 2007, at 10:09 AM, bruce78rpm wrote: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/photoalbum233.html This is the address I used to try and enter the site where I could see the difference in the corners of the bedplate between new and old versions. Does this look correct or is there a mistake in it. I would like to complete the survey and put it to rest but the website keeps telling me that there is no homepage associated with it. Thanks, Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] OT-vintage car
my daily drivers, from 1980 to 1989, when my new bride politely requested that i get a real (i.e. reliable) car: '69 Alfa Spider (still have) '60 Chrysler NYer 4dr HT '60 Buick Electra 225 conv (still have) '63 Rambler American 330 wagon '58 Dodge (Suburban?) wagon '60 Chrysler NYer 4dr HT wagon (still have) '55 Packard 400 2dr HT (wish i still had) that last yacht of the land could have presented a CD-skip issue, in that its Torsion-Level suspension had a little glitch in it, so as you floated down the boulevard in it, it nosed up and nosed down, up, and...down. thank goodness for the underdash kill switch. gawd i miss that car. -- peter Andrew Baron wrote: Wonderful to think of this as your daily driver. Automotive CD player technology has improved over the years. The older ones did have a tendency to skip more than what came later. You might want to try again if it's been a long time since the first attempt. If the road is rough enough, the new ones can skip as well. Andy On Jun 24, 2007, at 7:14 PM, taediso...@aol.com wrote: My daily driver is a 1928 Model A Fordor sedan. I tried putting in a CD player a few years ago but the vibration of the car caused it to skip. If I can ever find tiny speakers that have adequate volume and sound quality I'd love to just stick an Ipod Shuffle behind the dash panel and load it up with period music... Best regards, Rene Rondeau ** See what's free at http:// www.aol.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] vintage sounds in vintage cars
not hard to do - there are little transmitters you can buy which will feed a signal into your fm radio from an ipod, and i recall similar items for AM...perhaps still obtainable but not hard to build, either. or just hide the little drivers inside a vintage speaker housing, and EQ the music downward to sound authentically crappy? Dennis Back wrote: --- pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: ... and altho we don't do that in our old cars (baseball or oldies AM stations fit well in 60's vintage stuff) there're lots of nice portable ipod speaker systems out there. Great speakers for this. Thanks for the link. But...I my mind, having the ipod and the speakers somewhere is a bit weird to me. You're riding around in an old car and the music is coming from somewhere??? Now I know that some old, period auto radios had speakers coming from under the seat. So. What I think would be more in period would be having your ipod/mp3 player feed a signal INTO an old radio and playing OUT of the old radio, which shouldn't be hard to do. I just haven't had the time (or inclination) to do this just yet on my setup. Any comments? Dennis TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Dating pre-1915 A-series Edison Disc Phonographs
Somebody needs to engage Ron Dethlefson on this, because he may be able to help! Andrew Baron wrote: Hi Rich and thank you for checking in. I find the formative years of development of the Edison Disc technology to be very compelling, and I'm learning that there doesn't seem to be much known about it. Since the A-250 was derived from the Amberola cabinet that first appeared in 1909, it is the forerunner to all of the Edison Disc phonograph line. I just found a date at the bottom of form 632, the paper slip pasted to the back door of my early A-250; of 11-20-12. Thus, I can now narrow down the date that my early A-250 was made, from approximately December 1912 (the month following the paper form date) to roughly April 1913 (the month after the last patent date on the ID plate of my later A-250, assuming that not more than a few weeks went by before the ID plates were re-tooled to reflect the newest patents). If there were any documentation, or in lieu of documentation, if there are some others like you, with these machines who would be willing to compare details and furnish serial numbers, I could assemble a database that shows by serial number how late into the production certain details of these earliest D.D. machines were seen. I documented several differences I noted between my two A-250 machines in postings to this forum earlier this week, and this evening Peter Fraser will be posting three (I hope) images I emailed him showing a few of these differences. If there's interest, I can prepare a brief yes/no questionnaire that will enable us to document these differences in an organized way. This way we can all learn more about what we have. The hope is that at some point the information collected can convey the variety of different details, and help us narrow down the date of manufacture of these special, first generation, non-standardized examples. Best, Andy Baron On Jun 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Rich wrote: I have an A-250 and would be interested in seeing what you are talking about. Rich On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:33:44 -0600, Andrew Baron wrote: Hi George and thanks for taking the time to reply. I realize that there isn't much information documented, and this is what I'm running up against as much as anything else. Neither of my two machines have paper notices on the cabinet bottoms, but the later one has a data plate with the newest patent date of Mar-11-13, wihle the earlier machine has the newest patent date of 8-26-11. The 6 in 26 is hard to make out, and might be a 3, 8 or 9. Do you have a sense of how soon the patent dates on these model / serial number plates were updated, once a new patent was issued? Peter Fraser has graciously offered to post photos of the early levers, so I've prepared some composited images of the differing details of both of my A-250's. My hope is that some of the Edison enthusiasts out there are familiar with this start / stop lever arrangement. If someone else has a machine with these odd levers, I'd love to know the serial number, so I can get a sense of how late into the production it was used. What piqued my curiosity to begin with was that I had never seen these levers before. I don't know if that's because I haven't gotten around to the shows and big collections, or because they are relatively little known, even by other collectors. I bought my first D.D. machine in 1976, and have had many over the years, but this is the first I've seen with this odd detail. Best, Andy On Jun 22, 2007, at 7:55 AM, gpaul2...@aol.com wrote: Andy, Unfortunately, without some factory documentation of each model's serial numbers within a given month, exact dating for A-series Edison Disc Phonographs is quite difficult.? I've seen two types of paper license notices glued to the bottoms of these cabinets.? The earlier has no date at the bottom, and the later one has an April 1914 date.? Keep in mind that very few Edison Disc Phonographs were available to the public until Aug/Sept 1913, and the fire of Dec. 1914 put an end to most A-series production.? That gives roughly a 15-month window for most of our A-series machines.? Given the two different license notices, I break down the A-series dating to late 1913/early 1914 and mid/late 1914.? That's about as precise as I can get, given the limited information available. I'd be interested in seeing a photo of your start/stop mechanism.? It sounds like one I had many years ago, and I'm pretty sure that it's the earliest version.? On page 39 of Frow's Edison Disc Phonographs..., an A-150 is shown with what appears to be the conventional start/stop device, and this photo is dated March 2, 1914.? Presuming that all models adopted this newer design at the same time, and your A-250 carries a pre-April 1914 license notice, I'd date it as late 1913/early 1914.? Hope this helps, George Paul
[Phono-L] Dating pre-1915 A-series Edison Disc Phonographs
so i just took the plunge and forwarded the string to him. pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Somebody needs to engage Ron Dethlefson on this, because he may be able to help! Andrew Baron wrote: Hi Rich and thank you for checking in. I find the formative years of development of the Edison Disc technology to be very compelling, and I'm learning that there doesn't seem to be much known about it. Since the A-250 was derived from the Amberola cabinet that first appeared in 1909, it is the forerunner to all of the Edison Disc phonograph line. I just found a date at the bottom of form 632, the paper slip pasted to the back door of my early A-250; of 11-20-12. Thus, I can now narrow down the date that my early A-250 was made, from approximately December 1912 (the month following the paper form date) to roughly April 1913 (the month after the last patent date on the ID plate of my later A-250, assuming that not more than a few weeks went by before the ID plates were re-tooled to reflect the newest patents). If there were any documentation, or in lieu of documentation, if there are some others like you, with these machines who would be willing to compare details and furnish serial numbers, I could assemble a database that shows by serial number how late into the production certain details of these earliest D.D. machines were seen. I documented several differences I noted between my two A-250 machines in postings to this forum earlier this week, and this evening Peter Fraser will be posting three (I hope) images I emailed him showing a few of these differences. If there's interest, I can prepare a brief yes/no questionnaire that will enable us to document these differences in an organized way. This way we can all learn more about what we have. The hope is that at some point the information collected can convey the variety of different details, and help us narrow down the date of manufacture of these special, first generation, non-standardized examples. Best, Andy Baron On Jun 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Rich wrote: I have an A-250 and would be interested in seeing what you are talking about. Rich On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:33:44 -0600, Andrew Baron wrote: Hi George and thanks for taking the time to reply. I realize that there isn't much information documented, and this is what I'm running up against as much as anything else. Neither of my two machines have paper notices on the cabinet bottoms, but the later one has a data plate with the newest patent date of Mar-11-13, wihle the earlier machine has the newest patent date of 8-26-11. The 6 in 26 is hard to make out, and might be a 3, 8 or 9. Do you have a sense of how soon the patent dates on these model / serial number plates were updated, once a new patent was issued? Peter Fraser has graciously offered to post photos of the early levers, so I've prepared some composited images of the differing details of both of my A-250's. My hope is that some of the Edison enthusiasts out there are familiar with this start / stop lever arrangement. If someone else has a machine with these odd levers, I'd love to know the serial number, so I can get a sense of how late into the production it was used. What piqued my curiosity to begin with was that I had never seen these levers before. I don't know if that's because I haven't gotten around to the shows and big collections, or because they are relatively little known, even by other collectors. I bought my first D.D. machine in 1976, and have had many over the years, but this is the first I've seen with this odd detail. Best, Andy On Jun 22, 2007, at 7:55 AM, gpaul2...@aol.com wrote: Andy, Unfortunately, without some factory documentation of each model's serial numbers within a given month, exact dating for A-series Edison Disc Phonographs is quite difficult.? I've seen two types of paper license notices glued to the bottoms of these cabinets.? The earlier has no date at the bottom, and the later one has an April 1914 date.? Keep in mind that very few Edison Disc Phonographs were available to the public until Aug/Sept 1913, and the fire of Dec. 1914 put an end to most A-series production.? That gives roughly a 15-month window for most of our A-series machines.? Given the two different license notices, I break down the A-series dating to late 1913/early 1914 and mid/late 1914.? That's about as precise as I can get, given the limited information available. I'd be interested in seeing a photo of your start/stop mechanism.? It sounds like one I had many years ago, and I'm pretty sure that it's the earliest version.? On page 39 of Frow's Edison Disc Phonographs..., an A-150 is shown with what appears to be the conventional start/stop device, and this photo is dated March 2, 1914.? Presuming that all models adopted this newer design at the same time, and your A-250 carries a pre-April 1914 license notice, I'd date it as late
[Phono-L] Victor P bracket
oh, how that made me cringe! i've been replacing all the hardware in our 1913 craftsman-style house, bit by bit, with original oxidized-bronze items as I find them. i'm sure many of you will agree, it's one of the most lovely decorative touches from the era of our phonos. victor r!!! amberola 1 iii! edison opera idelia! -- peter Dan Kj wrote: I knew someone who had the same finish on all the door hardware in his house he removed every piece got them all clean again with some kind of industrial polishing compound. I couldn't tell if he was disappointed when I told him the pieces were SUPPOSED to have spots of different-colored metal. ack. - Original Message - From: David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket I had good luck cleaning mine with steel wool and some waterless hand cleaner that mechanics use. Go easy with it or you might end up stripping the whole thing off. When you see some of the copper coming back, quit. Dave phonofo...@aol.com wrote: I have an oxidized Victor P front mount support brack that is very dark. How could I bring the support bracket back to life so it will show the oxidized finish? Do I remove the old laquer/shellac finish and then relacquer? If so what type of finish remover would you recommend? Thanks! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] multiple disk record players (changers)
there were certainly changers to be had in the teens. plus the vic 10-50 (and other victors with changers) came out in 1927, and even though they were expensive, they were available to the masses... Dr. Houston, here's your cue! Andrew Baron wrote: I think the real question is: Does the setting and economic status of the character make the record changer scenario unlikely. Certainly the general public were years away from owning automatic record changers. Do you recall the book title? Andy Baron On Feb 23, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Ron L wrote: I was just reading a book review in which the reviewer chides the author for saying that someone put records on, and said that there were no changers in 1926. I don't think this is true. ISTR seeing at least one changer around in the teens, albeit an obscure name. So, when did Victor's first changer come out and what was the name of the acoustical era changer that I can't remember? Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] New 5 Cylinder Book
Gang - My copy arrived recently, and it's quite nice - worthy of addition to any phono or cylinder collector's library. There's a wealth of information, plus many many reproductions of advertising and catalogs for the large-format cylinders and machines. Cheers, Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:47:49 -0800 pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - Look what (finally) popped into my phonolist mailbox this morning! I'm sure Ron won't mind me sharing this with you all... --- ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net wrote: To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com From: ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:10:33 -0800 Subject: [phonolist] 5 Concert Book I will begin shipping copies of Edison, Lambert, Concert Records Columbia Grand Records and Related Phonographs(The 5 Inch Cylinder Book)next week. This 148 page book covers recording and manufacturing methods, cylinder titles, record boxes, dating guides, types of phonographs, advertisements, and catalogs. There are 156 illustrations, 36 in color. Edition is limited to 250 numbered copies, 8x ll size. Price: $44.00, postpaid, from: Ron Dethlefson 3605 Christmas Tree Ln Bakersfield, CA 93306-1114. Happy reading! Ron -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
wyatt's phone vs. email, was Re: [Phono-L] Edison Decals
Dwayne and Donna prefer the personal touch of telephone contact. There's a bunch of reasons, but primarily it's because you can rebuild a reproducer or lube a motor while talking on the phone, but you can't do it while typing. There are only so many hours in the day...and if you saw how slow Dwayne types, you'd buy him a new headset! there is a link on the website, for stuff like emailing pictures of stuff, if you really need it. but if you want answers to questions, call: 707/263-5013. and one of the great things about those two is that they will take the time to answer questions and dispense free advice. On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 03:22 PM, Vince Capobianco wrote: Anyone have a email address for Wyatts. I could not find one on their website and I would find it hard to believe that anyone with a website would not have an email address. Thanks, Vince - Original Message - From: zonophone2...@aol.com To: phon...@oldcrank.com Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Decals vince check with dwayne at the musical americana ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://t2.cwihosting.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://t2.cwihosting.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com
[Phono-L] Speaking of interesting items...
there was some chatter on phonolist recently about a cylinder record with narrative seemingly describing motion pictures or perhaps magic lantern slides - looks exactly like the setup here would fit that. On Nov 2, 2003, at 6:02 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: I second the opinion that the tubing and tank are to provide fuel for the projector light source. It would appear however that the person is using the phono in combination with the movie. Maybe it provides background music? We'll never know. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.com [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.com] On Behalf Of Loran T. Hughes Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 12:46 PM To: phon...@oldcrank.com Subject: [Phono-L] Speaking of interesting items... Check out this photo going off in a few hours: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItemitem=3250025017category=4 09 In one of the closeup shots, it appears this gent has hooked up an air pressure tank (see the presure gauge?) to his Graphophone. Has he built a home-made Auxeto-Kinetophone? The photo is fantastic... just wish I had the original set-up in my collection (insert evil grin here). Loran ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://t2.cwihosting.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://t2.cwihosting.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com
[Phono-L] polishing stuff, was Weekend Flea Market Find
this is just an opinion - and at the end of the day, it's YOUR possession and you can do what you please with it. so, having said that: i never polish my horns. i like patina. it's an old object and deserves to look its age, and if you polish part of it without making everything else as-new, it's just somehow not...right. with the Columbia nickel horns, they often are found with a tinted clear lacquer coating. my columbia BO has one with a most lovely greenish tint. quite subtle but nice. i could strip that and have a mirror-finish horn, but i prefer not to. early on in my collecting, i polished a dirty orthophonic tonearm. took off the nasty lacquer top coat and most of the gold, too. so now it's a lovely brass color, and i feel like a sap. and the lesson is, you never know how thin or thick that plating is. and originality is priceless and irretrievable when lost. but again, that's just my opinion. On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:02 PM, Charles Haynes wrote: Hi I went to the local Flea market this last weekend and got a very nice Columbia BH Disc graphophone. I was lucky and was at the right spot as it was coming out of a van. It belonged to a little old lady who told me it had always been in her house, and had originally belonged to her. mother. It is in wonderful condition and the nickel petal horn is nearly flawless. Has anyone ever polished one of these, what did you use? ... Thanks and Happy Holidays to all Charles Haynes -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
Wyatt's, was RE: [Phono-L] Styli...
gee, this is the first negative about Wyatt's i've ever heard, in 15 years. illegal...? really, is it? i suppose they could just add the surcharge to all prices...but that wouldn't be fair to the non-CC people. maybe there's another device they can adopt, to level this out in a better way. i'll just say that i've always found the Wyatt's to be flexible, fair, honest, speedy and responsive, and - most important - talented. and Dwayne can usually fix stuff that nobody else can. the reason the phone hours are limited, is because he is so bad about dispensing copious free advice that Donna has to rein him in so he'll get enough work done! although they don't set their phone machine to record messages, and don't have an online ordering system, they do have email and are responsive. this is no slam on Ron or anyone else with a differing opinion, and certainly there are several other fine phono repair/parts outfits, but i just wanted to add my own experiences to the record. On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:30:41 -0500 'Ron L'Herault' lhera...@bu.edu wrote: I only deal with Wyatt's out of desperation. They are hard to reach for and east coaster with their phone hours and lack of on-line ordering, Plus, they (illegally) charge a surcharge for credit card use so I have to have extra cash on hand, send them a check wait for the check to get there, probably wait for the check to clear and then wait for the item to be shipped. Ron L -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] Phono collections we've seen
this is a good thread to pick up, i think. i've been lucky enough to get to see numerous collections all over the country, and it's very interesting to see how folks address the question of how to best display...and in some cases, how to best use...their machines. here's a list of types of displays i've seen. if you recognize yourself, don't worry, it might not be you! - crammed into a corner of the basement; some things in cabinets or shelves, but then others piled up in front or on top - entire basement devoted to phonos, as designed when house was built - entire house filled with phonos; navigate rooms by walking the aisles between them; cylinder cabinets, filled, in bathrooms; some clothing storage of owner in lowboy consoles - multiple phonos in every room of house, but room for beds and chairs - one floor for her collectibles; one floor for his phonos and records - and all with tinfoil on top to protect against the tropical birds flying freely inside - house as normal, except for one very large room packed solidly and haphazardly and precariously with phono memorabilia and machines of all descriptions - one tiny room, packed artfully with the rarest of machines - two upstairs rooms, unwalkable but filled with fantastic records and machines - an entire separate building: top floor = collection storage/display; bottom floor = workshop - machines sprinkled throughout house as part of decor, with one room holding the greatest concentration - some machines in house, including a shelf filled with Columbia Qs and Eagles in breakfast nook, with attached 2-car garage devoted to phonos - machines stored throughout basement rooms, not displayed but accessible to be shown - large metal farm building, unheated and no A/C, with floor filled with consoles and a wall of metal shelves filled with tabletops. each console also had a tabletop model on top of it. On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:24:43 -0700 'Fred Williams' phonof...@msn.com wrote: Honest Ray, I have dreams about having a room like that. Maybe when My = kids move out... Fred - Original Message -=20 From: wilenz...@bellsouth.netmailto:wilenz...@bellsouth.net=20 To: Phono-L@oldcrank.orgmailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org ; = phonol...@yahoogroups.commailto:phonol...@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Phono collection Hello all: My move from New Orleans to Roswell, GA went well and all = phonos and records made the move with only a few minor problems. = Packing and unpacking all the machines, records, and horns was a real = chore. I now have much more room than I had before and the phono room = is almost set up. If you would like to see it and get an overview of my = collection, I have posted a few photos at the following URL: = http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-phonoshttp://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-ph= onos =20 Regards, Ray Wilenzick ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.orgmailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive = http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/http://www.oldcrank.org/piperm= ail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] Fwd: [phonolist] 5 Concert Book
Hi - Look what (finally) popped into my phonolist mailbox this morning! I'm sure Ron won't mind me sharing this with you all... --- ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net wrote: To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com From: ronald dethlefson r2d...@pacbell.net Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:10:33 -0800 Subject: [phonolist] 5 Concert Book I will begin shipping copies of Edison, Lambert, Concert Records Columbia Grand Records and Related Phonographs(The 5 Inch Cylinder Book)next week. This 148 page book covers recording and manufacturing methods, cylinder titles, record boxes, dating guides, types of phonographs, advertisements, and catalogs. There are 156 illustrations, 36 in color. Edition is limited to 250 numbered copies, 8x ll size. Price: $44.00, postpaid, from: Ron Dethlefson 3605 Christmas Tree Ln Bakersfield, CA 93306-1114. Happy reading! Ron -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] help needed: red diamond disc player sought
Gang - A lady emailed me today looking for help to get sound off of some old floppy red plastic mid-century Ediphone discs...which as you may know, they called Diamond Discs. They have her dead husband's voice on them, and she wants recordings made for her kids. Any help? -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] Kalamazoo Duplex for sale
oh! i hadn't realized there are 2 diaphragms in there. gee, they were pretty smart back then - must've been by trial and error to find that sound off the two sides of a single diaphragm would sound bad. yeah, the polyphone is not unlike the old 50s/60s reverb units in cars - a slight delay to one speaker makes it all sound fuller. cool - thanks for the info! On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:21:09 -0400 'Gregory Cline' gwpho...@woh.rr.com wrote: I don't believe there is a phase differential between the two horns. The sound from each horn comes from the same needle vibrating 2 different diaphragms. So my thoughts are that they play in unison. The entire argument by Duplex was increased volume, I believe. The sound is different, however as the horn bells are pointed in different directions. Therefore, the sound is not coming at you directly from both horns at once. If you stand very close to the machine while it is playing, you can differentiate between the two horns and it does sound a bit odd. Making small left to right movements change which horn is the primary one you are hearing. When you stand back from the machine the sounds begin to blend together, eventually becoming a unified sound. In comparison, on the polyphone cylinder attachment, there is a phase difference as there are 2 different reproducers playing the same track a few milliseconds apart. This provides a pseudo-stereo sound and you can hear a fullness to the playback. Gregg pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: i've long been curious: what do these sound like? the two horns are out of phase so wouldn't the sound be a little...funky? On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:08:54 -0400 'Gregory Cline' gwpho...@woh.rr.com wrote: Hello group, I would like to offer my duplicate Kalamazoo Duplex for sale before going to other avenues (i.e.. Ebay or MAPS).I am planning to attend the Bilton Show on Sept. 12 and can deliver for free if this helps. Follow the attached link for details and pictures. I am asking $6500. Email or call me if you have questions. Thanks, Gregg Cline zonoph...@woh.rr.com 419-424-1201 http://home.woh.rr.com/gwphonos/duplex2.htm ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://mail.oldcrank.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] Fwd: Interesting item on eBay web site item#2216215571: Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR
worth at least one look, boys. Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#2216215571: Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR A new way to market 78's... Title of item:Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR Seller: sex*in*the*city Starts: Jan-06-04 18:11:29 PST Ends: Jan-13-04 18:11:29 PST Price:Starts at $9.99 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2216215571 Item Description: Huge treasure trove of Antique Records in beautiful condition with a record sleeve book also date from 1918. Book contains 11 Victrola records. Records include: Benny Goodman Tommy Dorsey Kay Kyser Guy Lambardo Fred Astaire Made by RCA Manufacturing Company, Inc. -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them. --Mark Twain From bruce78rpm Tue Jan 6 22:08:01 2004 From: bruce78rpm (bruce78rpm) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:29 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Interesting item on eBay web site item#2216215571:Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR References: 9af2daec-40be-11d8-9ab3-000393c78...@alamedanet.net Message-ID: 001601c3d4d2$971bad60$30862...@aoldsl.net The heck with the records, let's see some more of the young lady!! - Original Message - From: pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique phonograph discussion list for pre-1930 phonographs phon...@oldcrank.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Interesting item on eBay web site item#2216215571:Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR worth at least one look, boys. Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#2216215571: Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR A new way to market 78's... Title of item: Huge Antique Victor Record Lot c1918 NR Seller: sex*in*the*city Starts: Jan-06-04 18:11:29 PST Ends: Jan-13-04 18:11:29 PST Price: Starts at $9.99 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2216215571 Item Description: Huge treasure trove of Antique Records in beautiful condition with a record sleeve book also date from 1918. Book contains 11 Victrola records. Records include: Benny Goodman Tommy Dorsey Kay Kyser Guy Lambardo Fred Astaire Made by RCA Manufacturing Company, Inc. -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them. --Mark Twain ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://t2.cwihosting.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com
[Phono-L] diamond disc reproducer rebuilding
Folks - Since the death of famed reproducer experimenter and rebuilder Bob Waltrip, has anyone emerged as a person interested in experimenting with getting the best quality sound out of the Edison diamond disc reproducer? -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] phono-l gets first shot at it
Gang - Hope this is proper; I'd want folks to do it for me if things were reversed, so here goes. I have a really wonderful item that I will be selling, one way or the other, soon. I figure it's nicest to offer stuff here first, to sorta keep things amongst us. It's not a phono, but it is mechanical music - a Regina music box and stand and discs. Here are some pictures: http://homepage.mac.com/pjfraser/phono/PhotoAlbum138.html Take a look - it's really beautiful. I plan to eBay it, probably this weekend, so if you want it you know what to do next... -- -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] removal from list
i have a simpler explanation: - he meant censorship - he thought he was addressing phonolist, not phono-L haw. Albert wrote: Dan: must be those liberal Graphophone collectors. Real Men prefer Edison. LOL Al - Original Message - From: Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] removal from list I haven't noticed anything odd going on this list. Who was having the problem? Dan - Original Message - From: cranke...@comcast.net To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] removal from list Loran, Please remove me from the list. Censureship belongs elsewhere, not here in America... ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Early Home configurations
and lest anyone misinterpret, i'm just poking a little fun at my supremely taciturn buddy Tim. he never sings awful old 60s pop songs, either, honest, i swear! pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: i think i know why people can sometimes perceive these projects as Tim's, plain and simple: could it be just that he's far more of a loudmouth than George? little buddy in training, Peter gpaul2...@aol.com wrote: Thanks, David for your kind words about the article I wrote on the early Home Phonographs in the Sound Box. From Peter's question, it seems as though the word still isn't out on that publication. People collect antique phonographs for a variety of reasons, but if you're among those who are interested in learning more about them, you really owe it to yourself to subscribe. It is absolutely THE BEST publication on antique phonographs out there. I've learned a lot from reading it, and Rene Rondeau does a great job as Editor. As as for Tim's Compendium, I know I shouldn't let this nettle me, but we're CO-AUTHORS. To make matters worse, I was the one who shot Bill Kocher's Home and wrote the captions for it! Sorry - - I suppose I should be used to it by now...! Once again - if you like solid information about antique phonographs plus pretty pictures of them, get on the CAPS website and subscribe to the Sound Box. It'll do you good! Best wishes to all, George Paul ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Jack Mullin tape...was Re: Victor long playing records
I have a unit which burns DVDs directly from VHS tapes, and would gladly burn copies of this for list-pals, for the cost of postage...if Doug would see fit to lend it out for that purpose. Doug? -- peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Doug wrote: The Antique Radio Club Of Illinois sold a videotape a few years ago, titled: An Afternoon With Jack Mullin. It runs 50 minutes, and I believe that it was put out by the Audio Engineering Society. I have a copy, and watch it occasionally. He covers early phonograph history very well, and has an outstanding demonstration of the same Victor record playing on acoustical, then switching to Orthophonic. He was a fine collector of phonographs and tape devices. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net I can't imagine any record maker in the thirties intending their discs to be played with a sound box. Were the heavy electric pickups any better? I had a Brunswick Panatrope for a while, and though I never got the amp working, the GE/RCA motor worked great, quiet and steady. The pickup head was hinged but not counterbalanced, and it could eat through 30's 78's with the best of 'em. (The 'plinth' board, if you will, also generated a roomful of acoustic output.) All right, on another topic. Magnetic tape recording was IN USE in Germany in the thirties. Do you think that the recording companies in this country didn't know about it? It would be a threat to their markets to have a recordable medium in the hands of buyers who would otherwise buy disc recordings. It proved to be just that, after Jack Mullin imported his two Magnetophones at the end of WWII, and Crosby went on the air, using one of them in 1947. With what Germany was brewing up during that time, I wonder if any technology was leaving the German borders. I'm no WWII expert, but I've always just assumed there was an iron veil over all the sciences in 30's Germany. This article on John Mullin touches on this, saying that Although the German technical press covered advances during the 1920s, the '30s, and even the early 1940s, Britons and Americans were largely unaware of these technology developments. It's a fascinating read and answers a lot of questions (while raising a few); here's the link: http://www.tvhandbook.com/History/History_mullin.htm One wonders. The first magnetic recording was demonstrated in 1898 by a Danish inventor named Poulsen. Seems the more we know, the more there is to learn. I'm gonna go finish that Mullin article. -r. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] sharing phono-l photographs
send them to me and i'll host them on a webpage, plus make full-res versions available for download. this goes for ANY phono-related pix any of you folks may want to share. Robert Wright wrote: I can't get photobucket to stop resizing the blurb pics so small they can't be read, grrr. So again, let me know if you want me to send them to any of you. Merle, yours are already on the way. :-) -Robert - Original Message - From: Merle Sprinzen msprin...@juno.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? I'd be VERY interested in a scan of the part that describes the differences between Chromium needles (green shank), Tungstone needles, regular needles, and 'red shank home recording needle' as well as 'orange shank long playing needle'. Robert -- would you be willing to do that?? ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] i'll attend, and report!
well, i haven't had time yet, but if you surf the site provided in the announcement, i'd guess you'll find some of their published scientific papers. Robert Wright wrote: Very exciting! I've been talking about how laser scanning technology should have already been used long ago for this very purpose for years and years now (especially if that Japanese gentleman can get 5 lasers to play an LP). I'm beyond curious about how things are coming along. Can't wait to get your impressions, Peter! - Original Message - From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net Using Optical Metrology to Reconstruct Mechanical Sound Recordings Speaker: Carl Haber Physics Division, LBNL An ongoing effort at Berkeley Lab has applied methods of optical metrology and image processing to reconstruct sound stored on these mechanical carriers. Of note is the IRENE project which will provide an optical scanning system to the Library of Congress. This talk will focus on technical aspects of optical sound reconstruction as practiced at the Lab. -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] i'll attend, and report!
and from the looks of things, the presentation will be available here: http://instrumentationcolloquium.lbl.gov/ for download after the fact. gee, maybe i ought to videotape it. Robert Wright wrote: I did a Google search with the words Irene, Berkeley, Optical, and Sound, and found a single page that was as up to date as late 2005. It's not a bunch of techno-talk, either, it's very interesting and has comparison sound clips. I think they're doing a pretty darn good job so far! http://www-cdf.lbl.gov/~av/ Thanks again, Peter! r. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] as-new oak Edison B-80 w/matching record cabinet
Folks - I think it's still ok to do this, but shout me down if it's not. I'll be selling a rather desirable phonograph on eBay but wanted to offer it to the group first. Here are the particulars... It's an Edison B-80, which is an early belt-drive tabletop model Diamond Disc machine. It has the early oddball tonearm-lowering mechanism which utilizes a knurled knob and cam at the pivot point of the tomearm. The cabinet has a lid, unlike the similar A-60 and B-60 models, and is quartersawn oak. The tonearm and horn mouth are painted with faux woodgrain to match. There's a matching 2-door oak base cabinet for record storage, which although it has no Edison labels, is obviously designed for this machine - it has no top, and the phono has no feet, and the rounded edges all match. This 2-piece set is rare enough, but on top of all that, it's in virtually perfect all-original condition. No nicks, scuffs, dents, checking, flaking of the faux woodgrain paint...even the turntable felt is perfect like the day it left the factory. The only flaw i see is that the nickel plating on the crank is bad. The cabinet is also flawless. It even has the original belt (broken) lying inside it - I'll replace that if necessary, but the motor winds and spins fine so i haven't bothered. It even came with a selection of Diamond Discs, each carefully filed in sleeves with the matching descriptive labels of the record on them and in perfect condition. Here is the story: this machine was at a wealthy San Francisco family's country home, and thus seldom used but well maintained. The lady I bought it from had rented the carriage house on the property for many years, and when the old lady of the house passed away, her nephew from out of town gave away much of the contents to clear the place out for sale - and gave this to the tenant lady. My guess is that since the belt was broken, it sat safely for many years without anyone able to mis-use it. I'll post pictures tonight if anyone's interested. I'd hang on to it but don't have room - and it overlaps with other DDs i already have in my collection. It'd be nice to send this sort of special item to one of our group rahter than a random ebayer. Location is the SF Bay Area, and the price, well let's talk. -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net
[Phono-L] Phono-L postings
but that's the thing...there is no on or off topic, which is what sets us apart from that other list. this hobby is really narrow in some ways, especially to outsiders. but for those of us inside, there's almost infinite variation and contrast. listeners vs machine-only people, discs vs cylinders, edison vs victor, one brand vs all brands, dealers vs collectors, old timers vs newbies, restored vs original, polish vs patina, generous vs selfish, acoustic vs electric, mechanisms vs. woodwork, and on and on and on. and this list is small enough and traffic is low enough, that nothing ever becomes overbearing. and when there is blather (again, in the ear of the beholder), it is easy to delete or ignore, and it seldom carries on for very long anyway. as list-dad (or mom?) Loran said, he's only had to 86 a single person since this list started...and does anyone remember who it was? hint: he was mentioned here over the past week! with that sort of a success record, i'd say this list is mighty close to just right... -- peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Don Mayer wrote: I don't know why anyone would be turned off by the postings on this list. They are almost always on topic and convey useful information about the hobby. I for one would be happy to see fewer postings on the crapophones, etc. that are regularly seen on eBay. Perhaps a Crapophone-L list for those who are interested in this type of thread. The postings which are on-topic are great, however. Don Mayer ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Edison LP conversion
I've done this and it's a fun and worthwhile challenge, but quite difficult to assure success. The parts can be found, but... - the kits are usually expensive when they do turn up - the installation is hard to perform properly, even if you are quite adept and have the excellent reprinted original installation instructions - the records don't usually play very well (skips, low volume, poor sound quality), which is why the system failed in the marketplace in the first place - the LP reproducers, when you find one, usually have bad stylii, and replacements are $$$ - if you only have one Edison LP, just play it on your regular modern turntable and stereo, and be happy, unless spending $600 or more is worth it to hear one record. in my own case, i had obtained 3 LPs at a reasonable cost, and found the kit and a good reproducer priced reasonably as well, so it was worth it as a hobby exercise. what record do you have? Original Message Subject: Re: [Phono-L] a cheap Idelia?/Anyone know about converting a DD phono for Long Play? From:Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com Date:Wed, February 8, 2006 12:15 pm To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org -- That's a shame... Maybe some of us just needed a nap. ;-) By the way, does anyone know where parts can be had to convert an Edison BC-34 Diamond Disk console phono into Long Play compatible? It sure would be cool to put a disc on a mechanical player and not change it for 24 minutes. I even have one LP DD I got from Les Docks years ago (if you have his American Premium Record Guide, it's the one he used for the picture of the 24-min LP DD label). Pretty neat, though probably gonna be expensive. Any ideas? Best to all, r.
[Phono-L] Question Tiger Stripe DD Reproducer?
Medved rocks. Nuff' said! Steven Medved wrote: Hi George Paul, George, and Al, This is from my research, other collectors, and what I have seen so any additions or corrections are welcomed...
[Phono-L] Best sounding Phonograph
gee, when i read this, i remembered a little thing i wrote about 15 years ago. googled around and guess what, it's still out there on the web! http://www.shellac.org/wams/wpete08.html bob waltrip was the guy who told me the phrase about the DD sound following you down the hall. my, time flies. -- peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Andrew Baron wrote: When I place a late, paper label DD record with a bold vocal track on my A-250, at the moment the voice begins, my dog launches into barking the same as if someone's just come to the house. It takes some effort to convince him that no one else has come in. He doesn't do this when I play something similar on my Victor Credenza, or any other machine. This doesn't quite address the criteria of the original query, and it's not exactly his master's voice, but he does seem to have a feeling for the most real sounding phonograph (and he has unusually sharp hearing to boot). Perhaps it's because the Edison system has the most natural overtones? Andy Baron ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Best sounding Phonograph
comments interspersed below... Dan Kjeldgaard wrote: Bob also totally scr()wed me with Orthophonic and Edison rebuilds. Perhaps he'd lost his alleged touch by then, but both were the worst botch-jobs ever heard by my ears. Sad. i'd not heard of this. most folks were polarized either for or against him and his methods, but i'd never heard of anyone thinking he'd lost it. all of the units he did for me are still singing sweetly, although i will admit that some of the experimentals he sent me towards the end were not as successful...but i didn't pay for those. My problem with later Edison discs: although the higher frequencies were fine, after about 1921 most of the recordings were of cheesy little orchestras which failed to produce much punch and the lower frequencies were absent. I have a feeling that once Edison lost interest in the recording activities, due to age and deafness, it went downhill. In other words: Jaudas' Society Orchestra in 1917 makes a better impression than the Golden Gate in 1925, allowing for differences in the musical content. i disagree on this, although the musical content may be coloring my opinion. the teens stuff generally leaves me cold. but many of the acoustic GG Orchestra and BA Rolfe sides really are full and clean and jut right. check out GGO Sweet Man (516xx, i think) - the first note of the cornet solo will challenge your belief system that it wasn't electrically recorded. Sez me, anyway - and I know that is quite subjective ! Would rather hear a good Victor Military Band disc on the Edison than on a Victrola, btw i have a funky adaptor that's made to play DDs on an orthophonic u-tube. its diamond is gone...but someday i'll play a DD on my credenza. should be extremely interesting. -- peter
[Phono-L] best reamers?
i think we may be over-analyzing a little. perhaps the best thing to do is find a cylinder that is half-gone already (e.g., one with a surface that is severely damaged at one section, but that still has playable parts) and experiment. but yes, in a perfect world the spirals would be gray and nothing else, and/or the high spots would be evenly high. but that isn't what happens. if you've ever wet-sanded bondo on a car fender there are parallels, in case that helps. and for what it's worth, the flat-knife trick was taught (vehemently) to me by Ron Dethlefson when i was first starting out... Ron L'Herault wrote: This seems to make a certain sense but I don't understand how/why the plaster should develop high spots. If the plaster is expanding from absorbed water, I would think that the rate and amount of expansion would be fairly equal over its entire inner surface. I.e., all the plaster would be expanding, reducing the inner diameter equally. What other factors am I not taking into consideration? Gray spots may just be the result of the plaster contacting a less polished/more abrasive area of the nickel. If plating came off from rubbing against the plaster, the entire surface of the spirals should get gray where they contact the surface of the mandrel, right? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Peter Fraser Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] best reamers? No, actually, the best reamer is no reamer. The way to do it is to take a flat-edged table knife and scrape down the high spots. you can identify the high spots easily by noticing shiny gray places in the plaster, where the nickel of the mandrel has compressed and discolored the white plaster when you press the record onto the mandrel. see, scrape, fit, repeat. do it until the record fits far enough to play. it takes time, but this is why you should do that: a reamer gets those high spots, but also sands down the corresponding opposite spots. you end up with a perfectly round interior diameter, but one that is usually not concentric with the exterior diameter...and so the whole record orbits the axis of rotation eccentrically (that is, the playing surface rises and lowers relative to the mandrel's surface, with each rotation) and sounds awful...permanently! On Apr 25, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: I guess that in order to fit some cylinders onto the mandrel a reamer is a necessary evil. I believe they can be made differently also. So, I'd like to know which type of reamer people prefer and why. Since I am going to buy one, I'd also like to know who sells the type of reamer you prefer. Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc NEW QUESTION!
this is a fun topic. just an opinion, but i'd say victor didn't issue many LP sets programmed for changers because they just never had much of a chance given the dismal market conditions. all from memory, but i think i remember this was only about a 2-year run. it would thus probably make sense to use existing low cost program material, then create new if the market seemed to respond to it. and by the 2-year mark, it hadn't, so they just quit. the early-30s RCA changers that play 78 and 33, use the fling-o-matic disappearing center spindle and 2nd tonearm approach - or the 10 swing-away magazine approach. either would require a 3-record set to be programmed 1/4, 2/5, 3/6. seems to me the orthophonic sets came in two different configurations (changer and non-changer) so perhaps they just decided to wait to produce those til they thought the market warranted it as well. a little bit of googlization turns up this link to a 1932 ad for the RAE-84, which cost a goodly amount ($310). the ad includes records, but i can't see if they're LPs or not. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=7608096342 calling Doug Houston...he's encyclopedic on this topic... Robert Wright wrote: Darn. I wish I'd made that connection before posting my question. Thanks, Dan. It is indeed the DL-5 record that's missing. Aside from the fact that the blurb described precisely the musical content of DL-5, I'm recording my copy right now and side 1 was already just over 11 minutes. Further, though I never noticed it before, the grooves of DL-5 are indeed microgroove; well, not exactly, they're a little wider than a 1949 Columbia LP, but they're certainly not as wide as standard 78 like I thought. (Side 2 turned out to clock in around 9:25, btw.) In fact, I went back to check my other Program Transcriptions and all the 10 PT's have the same fine groove pitch. But I have a pair of 12 PT's that are just as widely-grooved as VE Orthophonics, even though their original sleeves instruct use with the orange-shank chromium-tipped needle (as well as the yellow paper insert inside each original sleeve). Another thing that made the 20 minutes from a single 10 record claim suspect is that a lot of my PT's don't come close to using the entire available space, particularly the 12 PT's (one of which is one-sided and only uses about 1.5 worth of its cutting space, almost looks like Gen. Pershing's Nations' Forum record). So although they certainly could've put up to 20 minutes on a 10 and probably more than 30 minutes on a 12, they just never did it much. Seems pretty pointless. For all the boasting about the convenience of putting on a stack and having your entire evening's entertainment 'programmed' automatically, not only did RCA NOT take advantage of the technology they were pushing in terms of using cutting space, I've never seen any multiple PT sets that were changer-sequenced. (These 12 PT's are Stokowski's 1st Symphony, records 3 4 of a 4-record set, and they're not sequenced for changer-play -- though that blurb did say the 12 records wouldn't work with the changer.) As it turned out, I think a lot of the PT's were just dubs of existing recordings anyway, both sides of a 12 78 fitting on one side of a 10 33, such as my PT of Paul Whiteman conducting Rhapsody in Blue with George at the piano. Boo, RCA. Not good enough. No wonder it failed -- probably would have even without the Depression. (Get this - I'm timing the Stokowski sides, and the two-sided 12 came in at 7:40 per side, with electric volume fadeouts at the ends. The one-sided on had 4:08. Bleh, lame.) This means I've been playing PT's with the wrong stylus all this time. The LP stylus 'clicks' down into the first groove with a satisfying tick, moreso than the 78 stylus, but they both make the same music and surface noise. I guess this means the orange-shank needles weren't 1 mil OR 2.5 mil, but somewhere in between? Does anyone know for sure what stylus size exactly fits the Program Transcription groove? And what exactly should Columbia be credited for, ca. 1948? Using a 1 mil groove in conjunction with vinyl, or what? Seems like they didn't invent much! Thanks again, Robert - Original Message - From: Dan Kj ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 -any info?? Not all that rare, actually; every buyer of a new 78/LP phono got that album, with the (DL-5) Victor Artists Party Lp. Not common either, of course :) - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - any info?? Hi Robert, I always understood RCA Victor made the first 33 rpm around 1933 and it
