Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Col Day]

In addition, I think I may have got to the bottom of what I was doing wrong 
in the first place.


I recently swapped out my laptop for my wifes one (she upgraded, well I 
upgraded hers, and I got the old one) and I forgot that this one didn't 
automatically boot up into the Administrator profile.


Doh!

Cheers again all!


""Col Day""  wrote in message 
news:a2.70.25536.9a5f9...@pb1.pair.com...

Steve,

That's superb, many thanks for the link! I shall give it a go!

Yes I did install apache then php, however I tried to follow the 
instructions in the Dummies book (what does it make me if I can't follow 
the dummies book?) but to no avail.


I have just printed off the first 40 pages so that i can read it whilst 
looking at the screen ratrher than switching about, however I will give 
Xammp a go first and foremost seeing as I only want to test my own web 
page before I start to buy hosting elsewhere.


Seeing as you are so great :-) Any ideas of the best way to script an 
upload page that will deliver files to the server?


Family photo's and video clips mainly.

Thoughts?

Also, many thanks to everyone who has tried to help a muppet. But I guess 
we all gotta start somewhere!


Cheers again!

"Steve Staples"  wrote in message 
news:1286202653.4703.48.ca...@webdev01...

Col.

Since you're new to php, then an easy way to install apache, is using
XAMPP ( http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html )

I would suggest you remove the apache you have installed, and the php
you installed, and install the XAMPP package as it comes prebuilt with
mysql, ftp, apache and php, and it is simple to use/work with.

And if you install to defaults there, you will put your web files into
C:\xampp\htdocs\ and everythign should just work.

The way i read your initial post, is that you installed just apache, and
just php... if you did this, then you may not have integrated php into
apache properly, so then your php pages will not work.

just my $0.02 here, cuz if it doesn't work after you install XAMPP, then
there is something else wrong.

And the other thing, is that you're running on vista, and vista doesn't
like things running on localhost (or at least it didn't used to)

Steve


On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 13:51 +0100, Col Day wrote:

Hi Kranthi,

No, I just literally get the "HTML" line shown but absolutely nothing
beneath it.

"kranthi"  wrote in message
news:aanlktin2xnthqm-pp7qwtgo=sqtkctthtwz+08bbw...@mail.gmail.com...
> they should be something like error_log-[date] not sure about windows
> though
>
>>>However I have found that if I paste the html into my web page 
>>>created by

>>>Serif WebPlus 10 I get the "html" line but not the "php" line.
>
> are you saying that you are getting the php code in your browser ?
>  echo "This is a PHP line";
> phpinfo();
> ?>










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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Col Day]

Steve,

That's superb, many thanks for the link! I shall give it a go!

Yes I did install apache then php, however I tried to follow the 
instructions in the Dummies book (what does it make me if I can't follow the 
dummies book?) but to no avail.


I have just printed off the first 40 pages so that i can read it whilst 
looking at the screen ratrher than switching about, however I will give 
Xammp a go first and foremost seeing as I only want to test my own web page 
before I start to buy hosting elsewhere.


Seeing as you are so great :-) Any ideas of the best way to script an upload 
page that will deliver files to the server?


Family photo's and video clips mainly.

Thoughts?

Also, many thanks to everyone who has tried to help a muppet. But I guess we 
all gotta start somewhere!


Cheers again!

"Steve Staples"  wrote in message 
news:1286202653.4703.48.ca...@webdev01...

Col.

Since you're new to php, then an easy way to install apache, is using
XAMPP ( http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html )

I would suggest you remove the apache you have installed, and the php
you installed, and install the XAMPP package as it comes prebuilt with
mysql, ftp, apache and php, and it is simple to use/work with.

And if you install to defaults there, you will put your web files into
C:\xampp\htdocs\ and everythign should just work.

The way i read your initial post, is that you installed just apache, and
just php... if you did this, then you may not have integrated php into
apache properly, so then your php pages will not work.

just my $0.02 here, cuz if it doesn't work after you install XAMPP, then
there is something else wrong.

And the other thing, is that you're running on vista, and vista doesn't
like things running on localhost (or at least it didn't used to)

Steve


On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 13:51 +0100, Col Day wrote:

Hi Kranthi,

No, I just literally get the "HTML" line shown but absolutely nothing
beneath it.

"kranthi"  wrote in message
news:aanlktin2xnthqm-pp7qwtgo=sqtkctthtwz+08bbw...@mail.gmail.com...
> they should be something like error_log-[date] not sure about windows
> though
>
>>>However I have found that if I paste the html into my web page created 
>>>by

>>>Serif WebPlus 10 I get the "html" line but not the "php" line.
>
> are you saying that you are getting the php code in your browser ?
>  echo "This is a PHP line";
> phpinfo();
> ?>








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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Abah Joseph]

Your directory configuration should look like this


  Order Deny,Allow
  Allow from all

Options Indexes FollowSymLinks Includes ExecCGI

#
# AllowOverride controls what directives may be placed in .htaccess files.
# It can be "All", "None", or any combination of the keywords:
#   Options FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
#
AllowOverride All



On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:53 AM, kranthi  wrote:
> apache error logs will be helpful in this case. Their location varies
> depending upon your installation. But in any case they'll be insde
> your server directory (IIRC it is c:/Program Files/Apache Software
> Foundation/Apache by default)
>
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> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>



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RES: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Alejandro Michelin Salomon]

Col Day :

Go to : "C:\Arquivos de programas\Apache Software Foundation\Apache2.2\conf"
or the folder in your machine.

Search for this file => httpd.conf 

Search for DocumentRoot "D:/webroot" put your work folder in my case
D:/webroot.

Search for this line and apply the same changes make in DocumentRoot
#
# This should be changed to whatever you set DocumentRoot to
#


Search for DirectoryIndex, and add index.php to the list

#
# DirectoryIndex: sets the file that Apache will serve if a directory
# is requested.
#

DirectoryIndex index.html index.php


Add on the end of the file this lines :

My php installation folder is D:/PHP/, change D:/PHP/ to your installation
folder.

#BEGIN PHP INSTALLER EDITS - REMOVE ONLY ON UNINSTALL
PHPIniDir "D:/PHP/" 

# Php as Apache module
LoadModule php5_module "D:/PHP/php5apache2_2.dll" 

Restart apache.

Browse to localhost

Alejandro M.S.

-Mensagem original-
De: Col Day [mailto:colind...@aol.com] 
Enviada em: segunda-feira, 4 de outubro de 2010 06:31
Para: php-general@lists.php.net
Assunto: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

Hi all,

Working with the PHP5 for Dummies book (yup real noob, feel free to ridicule
(after telling me what I've done wrong)) and have installed Apache 2.2 and
PHP 5.3.3 onto a laptop running Vista. (yes I know!!!).

I've had Apache running fine with my basic web site created using Serif's
Webplus10 but wanted to experiment with PHP as I want an uploadable area on
my website for my friends and family to submit video/photos.

I've checked the install of PHP using php -v and I get the output that

PHP 5.3.3 (cli) (built: Jul 21 2010 20:10:20)

but when I try and go to the test.php file (below) I get an http 403 webiste
requires you to log in. Error message.



PHP Test


This is an HTML line
This is a PHP line";
 phpinfo();
?>



This is the text of the test.php file which I have plonked down in
/apache/htdocs

What have I missed?

the Dummies book is quoting PHP 5.0.0 as the latest release so not too far
away really.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers.

Col Day



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Steve Staples]

Col.

Since you're new to php, then an easy way to install apache, is using
XAMPP ( http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html )

I would suggest you remove the apache you have installed, and the php
you installed, and install the XAMPP package as it comes prebuilt with
mysql, ftp, apache and php, and it is simple to use/work with.

And if you install to defaults there, you will put your web files into
C:\xampp\htdocs\ and everythign should just work.

The way i read your initial post, is that you installed just apache, and
just php... if you did this, then you may not have integrated php into
apache properly, so then your php pages will not work.

just my $0.02 here, cuz if it doesn't work after you install XAMPP, then
there is something else wrong.

And the other thing, is that you're running on vista, and vista doesn't
like things running on localhost (or at least it didn't used to)

Steve


On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 13:51 +0100, Col Day wrote:
> Hi Kranthi,
> 
> No, I just literally get the "HTML" line shown but absolutely nothing 
> beneath it.
> 
> "kranthi"  wrote in message 
> news:aanlktin2xnthqm-pp7qwtgo=sqtkctthtwz+08bbw...@mail.gmail.com...
> > they should be something like error_log-[date] not sure about windows 
> > though
> >
> >>>However I have found that if I paste the html into my web page created by 
> >>>Serif WebPlus 10 I get the "html" line but not the "php" line.
> >
> > are you saying that you are getting the php code in your browser ?
> >  > echo "This is a PHP line";
> > phpinfo();
> > ?> 
> 
> 



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[PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Col Day]

Hi all,

Working with the PHP5 for Dummies book (yup real noob, feel free to ridicule
(after telling me what I've done wrong)) and have installed Apache 2.2 and
PHP 5.3.3 onto a laptop running Vista. (yes I know!!!).

I've had Apache running fine with my basic web site created using Serif's
Webplus10 but wanted to experiment with PHP as I want an uploadable area on
my website for my friends and family to submit video/photos.

I've checked the install of PHP using php -v and I get the output that

PHP 5.3.3 (cli) (built: Jul 21 2010 20:10:20)

but when I try and go to the test.php file (below) I get an http 403 webiste
requires you to log in. Error message.



PHP Test


This is an HTML line
This is a PHP line";
phpinfo();
?>



This is the text of the test.php file which I have plonked down in
/apache/htdocs

What have I missed?

the Dummies book is quoting PHP 5.0.0 as the latest release so not too far
away really.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers.

Col Day



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[kranthi]

apache error logs will be helpful in this case. Their location varies
depending upon your installation. But in any case they'll be insde
your server directory (IIRC it is c:/Program Files/Apache Software
Foundation/Apache by default)

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Peter Lind]

On 4 October 2010 11:30, Col Day  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Working with the PHP5 for Dummies book (yup real noob, feel free to ridicule
> (after telling me what I've done wrong)) and have installed Apache 2.2 and
> PHP 5.3.3 onto a laptop running Vista. (yes I know!!!).
>
> I've had Apache running fine with my basic web site created using Serif's
> Webplus10 but wanted to experiment with PHP as I want an uploadable area on
> my website for my friends and family to submit video/photos.
>
> I've checked the install of PHP using php -v and I get the output that
>
> PHP 5.3.3 (cli) (built: Jul 21 2010 20:10:20)
>
> but when I try and go to the test.php file (below) I get an http 403 webiste
> requires you to log in. Error message.
>
> 
> 
> PHP Test
> 
> 
> This is an HTML line
>  echo "This is a PHP line";
> phpinfo();
> ?>
> 
> 
>
> This is the text of the test.php file which I have plonked down in
> /apache/htdocs
>
> What have I missed?
>
> the Dummies book is quoting PHP 5.0.0 as the latest release so not too far
> away really.
>

A) v5.0.0 is years old. B) your issue is with apache, not php - 403 is
a "you have no permission to see this".

Check permissions for the file you're trying to test, as well as for
the folder. Also, seeing as you're naming the file test.php, make sure
you're browsing for that file and not just / or index.php.

Regards
Peter

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Col Day]

Hi Kranthi,

No, I just literally get the "HTML" line shown but absolutely nothing 
beneath it.


"kranthi"  wrote in message 
news:aanlktin2xnthqm-pp7qwtgo=sqtkctthtwz+08bbw...@mail.gmail.com...
they should be something like error_log-[date] not sure about windows 
though


However I have found that if I paste the html into my web page created by 
Serif WebPlus 10 I get the "html" line but not the "php" line.


are you saying that you are getting the php code in your browser ?
This is a PHP line";
phpinfo();
?> 



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[kranthi]

they should be something like error_log-[date] not sure about windows though

>>However I have found that if I paste the html into my web page created by 
>>Serif WebPlus 10 I get the "html" line but not the "php" line.

are you saying that you are getting the php code in your browser ?
This is a PHP line";
phpinfo();
?>

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and struggling with the basics

[Col Day]

Kranthi
Many thanks, any idea on the name of the error logs?

Peter,
Yes, browsing to the correct location but still getting the 403. this 
website requires you to log in.


Abah,

I've gone to the httpd-userdir.conf file and replaced it with your text (not 
including the directory tree), restarted apache (after each change) but am 
still getting the same error.


However I have found that if I paste the html into my web page created by 
Serif WebPlus 10 I get the "html" line but not the "php" line.


Any further thoughts?

It has to be something simple that I'vw not done!

Cheers all.



"kranthi"  wrote in message 
news:aanlktik6=68ho+hdfpvd3x2qmrudlz_ttco2oqk1b...@mail.gmail.com...

apache error logs will be helpful in this case. Their location varies
depending upon your installation. But in any case they'll be insde
your server directory (IIRC it is c:/Program Files/Apache Software
Foundation/Apache by default) 



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and the list

[kranthi]

> Is MAX_FILE_SIZE passed to PHP as $MAX_FILE_SIZE?
only if register_golbals is set to ON in php.ini. This is a very bad
practice and should be avoided. Use $_POST['MAX_FILE_SIZE'] instead.
But in this case dont use the post variable also. define a constant in
your configuration file and use that constant. The only use of
MAX_FILE_SIZE  is to inform the browser that "dont allow the user to
upload files which are > MAX_FILE_SIZE".

> 
> $MAX_FILE_SIZE = 3;
>
> echo <<<_END
> 
>     
>     
>     
>     Send this file: 
>     
> 
> <<<_END
Nope, you cant. You have to mention the value attribute of a hidden field

> I'm also concerned that in the first instance, a malicious user can
> modify the value and I will be hosed. Am I correct?
A malicious user can ALWAYS modify the data. You will have to always
validate every input field.

> echo <<<_END
> 
>
>
>
>Send this file: 
>
> 
> <<<_END
i did not understand this echo <<<_END means that you are in php so
why do you need a  ?

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and the list

[Paul M Foster]

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 06:37:41PM -0500, MikeB wrote:

> Hello, I'm new to PHP and also new to using newsgroups/mailing lists
> directly. So if I make a mistake, please forgive me this once and I'll
> try to do better in the future.
> 
> Please help me understand, my head is absolutely spinning and I can't
> get my mind around this.
> 
> In the php.net site there is an example on uploading a file via a
> form. http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.post-method.php
> 
> This is the sample code for the form:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send this file: 
> 
> 
> 
> Is MAX_FILE_SIZE passed to PHP as $MAX_FILE_SIZE?

No. It's passed as: $_POST['MAX_FILE_SIZE'], as are all variables in a
form which uses "post" as its method attribute.

> 
> Assuming I want to make it a variable in my PHP code, can I do this:
> 
>  
> $MAX_FILE_SIZE = 3;
> 
> echo <<<_END
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send this file: 
> 
> 
> <<<_END
>  
> In other words, simply omitting the "value" clause in the form field?

No. Better is this:





Send this file: 


<<<_END

Remember that the data HTML/values you're sending are being sent back
when the form returns to the server for processing. So the
information must be contained in POST/GET variables, just the way I did
it above. (There are other ways to do the syntax, but the meaning is the
same.)


> 
> And can I make that value a global constant somehow so that I can
> later also test the actual size of the uploaded file in another
> function?
> 
> Or do I have to do this:
> 
>  
> $MAX_UPLOAD_SIZE = 3;
> 
> echo <<<_END
> 
> 
>  value="$MAX_UPLOAD_SIZE"/>
> 
> Send this file: 
> 
> 
> <<<_END
>  
> I'm also concerned that in the first instance, a malicious user can
> modify the value and I will be hosed. Am I correct?

Yes, a malicious user can do this. They can stand off somewhere and
submit a copy of your form with different values. Then they can upload a
file of larger size. However, if you keep that 3 value somewhere,
you can refuse to "process" files which exceed that size. When I say
"process", I mean store the file in a more permanent place and actually
*do* something with it. Uploading files puts them in a temporary
location controlled by the server and inaccessible to you using "normal"
methods. You probably know you have to go through a couple of extra
steps to get to that file someone uploaded. You can't just say, "Give me
the file at /tmp/phpuploads/uploadedfile.txt."

Paul

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and the list

[viraj]

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 5:07 AM, MikeB  wrote:
> Hello, I'm new to PHP and also new to using newsgroups/mailing lists
> directly. So if I make a mistake, please forgive me this once and I'll try
> to do better in the future.
>
> Please help me understand, my head is absolutely spinning and I can't
> get my mind around this.
>
> In the php.net site there is an example on uploading a file via a
> form. http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.post-method.php
>
> This is the sample code for the form:
>
> 
>    
>    
>    
>    Send this file: 
>    
> 
>
> Is MAX_FILE_SIZE passed to PHP as $MAX_FILE_SIZE?

err! print_r and var_dump is your friend!

>
> Assuming I want to make it a variable in my PHP code, can I do this:
>
> 
> $MAX_FILE_SIZE = 3;
>
> echo <<<_END
> 
>    
>    
>    
>    Send this file: 
>    
> 
> <<<_END
> 
> In other words, simply omitting the "value" clause in the form field?
>
> And can I make that value a global constant somehow so that I can
> later also test the actual size of the uploaded file in another
> function?

if this is about getting the size of the uploaded file, you better try
print_r($_FILES) after the form submit. there you have size in bytes.

MAX_FILE_SIZE in html form will be used to early notify the up-loader,
in case of a bigger file which exceeds the server side limit imposed
through php.ini. (see http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php file
uploads section)

>
> Or do I have to do this:
>
> 
> $MAX_UPLOAD_SIZE = 3;
> <<<_END
> 
> I'm also concerned that in the first instance, a malicious user can
> modify the value and I will be hosed. Am I correct?

and yes, never trust client side.


~viraj

>
> Thanks.
>
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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and the list

[MikeB]

On 9/11/2010 6:51 PM, Tom Sparks wrote:

--- On Sun, 12/9/10, MikeB  wrote:


From: MikeB
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP and the list
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Received: Sunday, 12 September, 2010, 9:37 AM
Hello, I'm new to PHP and also new to
using newsgroups/mailing lists directly. So if I make a
mistake, please forgive me this once and I'll try to do
better in the future.

Please help me understand, my head is absolutely spinning
and I can't
get my mind around this.

In the php.net site there is an example on uploading a file
via a
form. http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.post-method.php


start off simpler with this version 
http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_file_upload.asp



I think I have that much under my belt, I'm more or less trying to dig a 
little deeper.


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP and the list

[Tom Sparks]

--- On Sun, 12/9/10, MikeB  wrote:

> From: MikeB 
> Subject: [PHP] New to PHP and the list
> To: php-general@lists.php.net
> Received: Sunday, 12 September, 2010, 9:37 AM
> Hello, I'm new to PHP and also new to
> using newsgroups/mailing lists directly. So if I make a
> mistake, please forgive me this once and I'll try to do
> better in the future.
> 
> Please help me understand, my head is absolutely spinning
> and I can't
> get my mind around this.
> 
> In the php.net site there is an example on uploading a file
> via a
> form. http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.file-upload.post-method.php
>
start off simpler with this version 
http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_file_upload.asp

tom





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RE: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Robert Cummings]

On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 23:42 +, Ashley Sheridan wrote:
>
> I hate div'itis as well. Some people seem to think it's a big faux pas
> to use table tags now, when that couldn't be more wrong. Use tables for
> tabular data, CSS for the rest (with as few exceptions - and there are
> always some eh - as you can manage.) I've seen people try to rebuild a
> table of data, that you might represent in a spreadsheet, as a
> collection of div's. Bad form, as the data has now lost all meaning.
> This is the same as replacing all your  tags with  class="header1"> or  with . Silly idea, slap
> on the wrist, don't do it again.
> 
> Personally, CSS is my preferred way of working now. I can define a whole
> bunch of elements, semantically as possible, and then can redefine the
> look as often as I wish afterwards with CSS. Look at the CSS Zen Garden
> if you don't believe how useful this is. Rather than going through a
> bunch of page to replaces tables, or PHP code to change the output
> layout, you can redefine your CSS to alter the look. It's not a black
> art, it just needs a little practise. Remember how bad we all were when
> we first started using HTML? It's exactly the same thing here!

I thought I'd dredge up this old, old topic to add some comments about
some recent stuff I did since this thread (or many similar to it) were
in the back of mind. Specifically I was creating a new look and feel for
my MUD hobby website and I wanted to make use of lots of PNG images with
alpha transparency. Additionally I wanted variable width. I felt tables
were the best approach for this because div based sliding door
techniques and multi-level div containers don't work when the alpha
transparency will reveal the underlying sliding or container background.
I just don't think I could accomplish the same results using divs and
floats.

http://www.wocmud.org/welcome.php

Comments?

Cheers,
Rob.
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Application and Templating Framework for PHP


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Don Collier]

Paul M Foster wrote:

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 01:45:07PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:

  

On that note, what would be a better book to learn from?  I have always
been a fan of the O'Reilly books, but I am open to differing flavors of
kool-aid.  One can never have too many resources.



The book that sits on my desk and is incredibly dog-eared is
_Programming PHP_, also from O'Reilly. The whole back section is a
reference on all the PHP functions and some extensions. The front part
of the book explains nearly everything about the language.

There are some errata in the book, which I've pointed out to O'Reilly,
and when in doubt I check the function documentation on the php.net
site.

Paul


  
I have this "Learning PHP 5" and at the same time bought "PHP and MySQL" 
also from O'Reilly.  Ever since my first "Sed and Awk" book from them 
about 10 or so years ago I have been hooked.  I do have others in my 
library but I usually give them a shot first to see if I get what I need.


I will have to pick up a copy of the "Programming PHP" and give it a 
look.  Thanks.


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:41:31PM +, Nathan Rixham wrote:

> Paul M Foster wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:26:10PM +, Ashley Sheridan wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>> I use CSS as much as possible, and it's second nature to me now to
>>> design with CSS rather than tables, but the only area I find it quicker
>>> to use tables is when I design forms. I know I'm going to browser hell,
>>> but meh, I can deal with it! :p
>>
>> That's my problem. Almost all the stuff I do is actual tabular data, or
>> forms. Of course, the header and side bars are built with CSS. But the
>> interior data are usually in tables.
>>
>> I've got forms with 50-odd fields in them, and I completely dispair of
>> trying to make it look as good in CSS as it does in tables. Even with
>> tables, I had more experimenting and colspans than you can imagine.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
> see this is why i chant "flex flex flex flex flex flex flex flex flex
> flex flex flex flex  flx"

Oh, a proprietary protocol and set of tools meant to run on a
proprietary platform, built by a company as rapacious as Microsoft, and
whose applications can't be mined by search engines?

Oh yeah, I'm there.

Paul


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Nathan Rixham]

Paul M Foster wrote:

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:26:10PM +, Ashley Sheridan wrote:




I use CSS as much as possible, and it's second nature to me now to
design with CSS rather than tables, but the only area I find it quicker
to use tables is when I design forms. I know I'm going to browser hell,
but meh, I can deal with it! :p


That's my problem. Almost all the stuff I do is actual tabular data, or
forms. Of course, the header and side bars are built with CSS. But the
interior data are usually in tables.

I've got forms with 50-odd fields in them, and I completely dispair of
trying to make it look as good in CSS as it does in tables. Even with
tables, I had more experimenting and colspans than you can imagine.

Paul



see this is why i chant "flex flex flex flex flex flex flex flex flex 
flex flex flex flex  flx"


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RE: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Ashley Sheridan]

On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 16:05 -0600, Boyd, Todd M. wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Stephen [mailto:stephe...@rogers.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:41 PM
> > To: Paul M Foster
> > Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> > Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP question
> > 
> > Paul M Foster wrote:
> > > If you want exact layout (columns
> > > lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > The horror.
> > 
> > Do not use tables for layout.
> > 
> > Use CSS.
> > 
> > Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8
> > which
> > seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.
> 
> Your high horse--get off of it.
> 
> Are you not familiar with "div-itis"? If I need to represent data in a
> grid-style layout, I am going to use a  every time instead of
> making tons of  elements and tying them into the appropriate CSS.
> 
> http://www.giveupandusetables.com
> 
> Also... as far as I know, XHTML 1.0 Strict and XHTML 1.1 still include
> the  tags. I can understand wanting to separate style from
> structure, but I think that tables are more structural than stylish. You
> have to draw the line somewhere.
> 
> If you're displaying tabular data, use a table. If you just want stuff
> to be in a grid and the structure has no bearing on the content, then
> it's time to weigh in. 
> 
> Finally, just because IE8 is (supposed to be) fully CSS standards
> compliant doesn't mean anything for IE7, IE6, IE5, etc.
> 
> 
> // Todd
> 
I hate div'itis as well. Some people seem to think it's a big faux pas
to use table tags now, when that couldn't be more wrong. Use tables for
tabular data, CSS for the rest (with as few exceptions - and there are
always some eh - as you can manage.) I've seen people try to rebuild a
table of data, that you might represent in a spreadsheet, as a
collection of div's. Bad form, as the data has now lost all meaning.
This is the same as replacing all your  tags with  or  with . Silly idea, slap
on the wrist, don't do it again.

Personally, CSS is my preferred way of working now. I can define a whole
bunch of elements, semantically as possible, and then can redefine the
look as often as I wish afterwards with CSS. Look at the CSS Zen Garden
if you don't believe how useful this is. Rather than going through a
bunch of page to replaces tables, or PHP code to change the output
layout, you can redefine your CSS to alter the look. It's not a black
art, it just needs a little practise. Remember how bad we all were when
we first started using HTML? It's exactly the same thing here!


Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 09:26:10PM +, Ashley Sheridan wrote:



> >
> I use CSS as much as possible, and it's second nature to me now to
> design with CSS rather than tables, but the only area I find it quicker
> to use tables is when I design forms. I know I'm going to browser hell,
> but meh, I can deal with it! :p

That's my problem. Almost all the stuff I do is actual tabular data, or
forms. Of course, the header and side bars are built with CSS. But the
interior data are usually in tables.

I've got forms with 50-odd fields in them, and I completely dispair of
trying to make it look as good in CSS as it does in tables. Even with
tables, I had more experimenting and colspans than you can imagine.

Paul

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 03:33:19PM -0500, Ernie Kemp wrote:

> Is there any advantage to using CSS over table and would it be idea to go 
> to
> past website and change them.

If it works, don't fix it. If you want to take the time to figure out
how to get those same layouts in CSS, have a blast. But as you can see
here from other replies, tables are the simplest choice for a lot of
people who work with web pages all the time.

Paul

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 01:45:07PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:

>>
> On that note, what would be a better book to learn from?  I have always
> been a fan of the O'Reilly books, but I am open to differing flavors of
> kool-aid.  One can never have too many resources.

The book that sits on my desk and is incredibly dog-eared is
_Programming PHP_, also from O'Reilly. The whole back section is a
reference on all the PHP functions and some extensions. The front part
of the book explains nearly everything about the language.

There are some errata in the book, which I've pointed out to O'Reilly,
and when in doubt I check the function documentation on the php.net
site.

Paul


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RE: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Boyd, Todd M.]

> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen [mailto:stephe...@rogers.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:40 PM
> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP question
> 
> Boyd, Todd M. wrote:
> >
> > Finally, just because IE8 is (supposed to be) fully CSS standards
> > compliant doesn't mean anything for IE7, IE6, IE5, etc.
> >
> Microsoft is pushing IE 8 with their bug fix process.
> 
> Not a bad idea to include a little JS to warm users with  upgrade.

If you're going to go that far, just ask them to install a worthwhile
browser. :P It's sad, but the burden falls on us web developers to
remain backwards-compatible (at least until EOL of the particular
browser(s) in question).

Personally, I look at that in the same light as I do pages that have a
disclaimer at the bottom that says, "Best viewed in 
with ." I understand that the programmer didn't want to go
through the nightmare of getting it to work across-the-board, but your
typical site visitor is going to look at that and frown.

Also, with that in mind, remember that Microsoft does not design their
web browser line with efficiency or speed of execution in mind. With
each iterative release, there is more feature bloat, more memory
required, and more processor cycles used up. Older PCs may very well be
stuck with IE6. This may not be your target market, but it's something
to consider.

This is just my opinion... but I know I'm not alone.


// Todd

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Stephen]

Boyd, Todd M. wrote:

The horror.
Do not use tables for layout.

Use CSS.

Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8
which
seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.



Your high horse--get off of it.
  

Dude! Did you read what I wrote? I wrote do not use tables for layout!

Are you not familiar with "div-itis"? If I need to represent data in a
grid-style layout, I am going to use a  every time instead of
making tons of  elements and tying them into the appropriate CSS.
  
It you have tabular data to present, use HTML tables! That is what they 
are for.


But use CSS to format the table.

Finally, just because IE8 is (supposed to be) fully CSS standards
compliant doesn't mean anything for IE7, IE6, IE5, etc.
  

Microsoft is pushing IE 8 with their bug fix process.

Not a bad idea to include a little JS to warm users with http://www.php.net/)
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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Shawn McKenzie]

Boyd, Todd M. wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Stephen [mailto:stephe...@rogers.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:41 PM
>> To: Paul M Foster
>> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
>> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP question
>>
>> Paul M Foster wrote:
>>> If you want exact layout (columns
>>> lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The horror.
>>
>> Do not use tables for layout.
>>
>> Use CSS.
>>
>> Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8
>> which
>> seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.
> 
> Your high horse--get off of it.
> 
> Are you not familiar with "div-itis"? If I need to represent data in a
> grid-style layout, I am going to use a  every time instead of
> making tons of  elements and tying them into the appropriate CSS.
> 
> http://www.giveupandusetables.com
> 
> Also... as far as I know, XHTML 1.0 Strict and XHTML 1.1 still include
> the  tags. I can understand wanting to separate style from
> structure, but I think that tables are more structural than stylish. You
> have to draw the line somewhere.
> 
> If you're displaying tabular data, use a table. If you just want stuff
> to be in a grid and the structure has no bearing on the content, then
> it's time to weigh in. 
> 
> Finally, just because IE8 is (supposed to be) fully CSS standards
> compliant doesn't mean anything for IE7, IE6, IE5, etc.
> 
> 
> // Todd

Or firefox for that matter.  I tried to do a completely css site and
when I got it looking great in ff/linux, it looked horrible in IE.  Then
when it looked better in IE and better in ff/linux, it had some issues
iin ff/windows.  I love tables and will use them for most layouts until
they are removed from (x)html :-)

-Shawn

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Thanks!
-Shawn
http://www.spidean.com

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RE: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Boyd, Todd M.]

> -Original Message-
> From: Stephen [mailto:stephe...@rogers.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:41 PM
> To: Paul M Foster
> Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP question
> 
> Paul M Foster wrote:
> > If you want exact layout (columns
> > lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
> >
> >
> >
> The horror.
> 
> Do not use tables for layout.
> 
> Use CSS.
> 
> Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8
> which
> seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.

Your high horse--get off of it.

Are you not familiar with "div-itis"? If I need to represent data in a
grid-style layout, I am going to use a  every time instead of
making tons of  elements and tying them into the appropriate CSS.

http://www.giveupandusetables.com

Also... as far as I know, XHTML 1.0 Strict and XHTML 1.1 still include
the  tags. I can understand wanting to separate style from
structure, but I think that tables are more structural than stylish. You
have to draw the line somewhere.

If you're displaying tabular data, use a table. If you just want stuff
to be in a grid and the structure has no bearing on the content, then
it's time to weigh in. 

Finally, just because IE8 is (supposed to be) fully CSS standards
compliant doesn't mean anything for IE7, IE6, IE5, etc.


// Todd

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[mike]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Ashley Sheridan
 wrote:

> I use CSS as much as possible, and it's second nature to me now to
> design with CSS rather than tables, but the only area I find it quicker
> to use tables is when I design forms. I know I'm going to browser hell,
> but meh, I can deal with it! :p

I've had the same pain. If I want to get something up quick, I wind up
doing it in tables. I have some basic CSS templates I can get up, but
for forms and some other things I wind up tweaking things over and
over; with tables it's just done and I can move on.

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Ashley Sheridan]

On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 15:33 -0500, Ernie Kemp wrote:
> Is there any advantage to using CSS over table and would it be idea to go to 
> past website and change them.
> /Ernie
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Stephen" 
> Newsgroups: php.general
> To: "Paul M Foster" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP question
> 
> 
> > Paul M Foster wrote:
> >> If you want exact layout (columns
> >> lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > The horror.
> >
> > Do not use tables for layout.
> >
> > Use CSS.
> >
> > Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8 which 
> > seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.
> >
> > Stephen
> > 
> 
> 
Some browsers (IE) need the entire table to load before it can begin to
display it. Note this is only the whole table, not it's contents, so it
may appear to jump around as images, etc load in. Also, pages with lots
and lots of nested tables do render slightly more slowly, but these at
worst is going to be a second or two. Tables are great for tabular
layout, but divs when used properly an be a lot more flexible and
forgiving.


Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Ashley Sheridan]

On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 15:17 -0500, Paul M Foster wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:40:55PM -0500, Stephen wrote:
> 
> > Paul M Foster wrote:
> >> If you want exact layout (columns
> >> lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > The horror.
> >
> > Do not use tables for layout.
> >
> > Use CSS.
> >
> > Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8 which
> > seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.
> 
> I'm happy to be a Luddite in this area. We've been doing websites for
> about ten years, and have yet to find it either simple or easy to get
> exact, gracefully-degrading layouts with CSS. (We use CSS for all kinds
> of nifty things, but not to line things up properly.)
> 
> Hey, I've got an idea. If someone knows of one of these uber-web-design
> "authorities" who writes books touting the superiority of CSS over
> tables, have them write a book showing us all how it's done ["easily"].
> I'll be first in line to buy it, because I agree that page layout is not
> the original proper use of tables.
> 
> Paul
> 
> PS: I have to snicker as well anytime Microsoft says they're "compliant"
> with *any* standard. Their history speaks for itself; why should we
> believe them now?
> 
> -- 
> Paul M. Foster
> 
I use CSS as much as possible, and it's second nature to me now to
design with CSS rather than tables, but the only area I find it quicker
to use tables is when I design forms. I know I'm going to browser hell,
but meh, I can deal with it! :p


Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Ashley Sheridan]

On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 13:45 -0700, Don Collier wrote:
> 
> Paul M Foster wrote:
> > See? This is what I'm talking about.
> >
> > *I* understand what you're saying, Don, and I agree. But this guy is
> > just learning PHP from what is arguably not one of the best books on PHP
> > (IMO). And you're throwing MVC at him. Let him master the subtleties of
> > the language first, then we'll give him the MVC speech.
> >
> > Yes, I know, they should learn proper programming practices from the
> > beginning, blah blah blah. But think back to the first programming
> > language you ever learned, when you were first learning it. If someone
> > had thrown stuff like this at you, would you have had a clue? I had
> > enough trouble just learning the proper syntax and library routines for
> > Dartmouth BASIC and Pascal, without having to deal with a lot of
> > "metaprogramming" stuff.
> >
> > This is the problem when you get newbies asking questions on a list
> > whose membership includes hardcore gurus. The gurus look at things in
> > such a lofty way that answering simple questions at the level of a
> > beginner sounds like a dissertation on the subtleties of Spanish art in
> > the 1500s.
> >
> > Just my opinion.
> >
> > Paul
> >   
> On that note, what would be a better book to learn from?  I have always 
> been a fan of the O'Reilly books, but I am open to differing flavors of 
> kool-aid.  One can never have too many resources.
> 
I agree with your choice; never seen a bad O'Reilly book yet.


Ash
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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Frank Stanovcak]

"Don Collier"  wrote in message 
news:4980c3d3.8040...@collierclan.com...
>
>
> Paul M Foster wrote:
>> See? This is what I'm talking about.
>>
>> *I* understand what you're saying, Don, and I agree. But this guy is
>> just learning PHP from what is arguably not one of the best books on PHP
>> (IMO). And you're throwing MVC at him. Let him master the subtleties of
>> the language first, then we'll give him the MVC speech.
>>
>> Yes, I know, they should learn proper programming practices from the
>> beginning, blah blah blah. But think back to the first programming
>> language you ever learned, when you were first learning it. If someone
>> had thrown stuff like this at you, would you have had a clue? I had
>> enough trouble just learning the proper syntax and library routines for
>> Dartmouth BASIC and Pascal, without having to deal with a lot of
>> "metaprogramming" stuff.
>>
>> This is the problem when you get newbies asking questions on a list
>> whose membership includes hardcore gurus. The gurus look at things in
>> such a lofty way that answering simple questions at the level of a
>> beginner sounds like a dissertation on the subtleties of Spanish art in
>> the 1500s.
>>
>> Just my opinion.
>>
>> Paul
>>
> On that note, what would be a better book to learn from?  I have always 
> been a fan of the O'Reilly books, but I am open to differing flavors of 
> kool-aid.  One can never have too many resources.


First of all...for **insert deities name here** sake don't drink the 
kool-aid!  I started with the visual series of books just to get the hang of 
the rudimentry language, and then went right to the online php manual.  www. 
devguru. com isn't bad, but tends to be a bit sparse on explinations.  If 
you are familliar with any programming language google is your friend.  php 
is pretty close to c for ease of refference so googling for like 'switch 
php' brings up loads of examples and refs.  I still don't know anything 
about this pear, or other frameworks they speak of on here, but I'm sure I 
will learn it in time.  :)

Personally I think French art from the 1500's was better any way.

Frank 



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Don Collier]

Paul M Foster wrote:

See? This is what I'm talking about.

*I* understand what you're saying, Don, and I agree. But this guy is
just learning PHP from what is arguably not one of the best books on PHP
(IMO). And you're throwing MVC at him. Let him master the subtleties of
the language first, then we'll give him the MVC speech.

Yes, I know, they should learn proper programming practices from the
beginning, blah blah blah. But think back to the first programming
language you ever learned, when you were first learning it. If someone
had thrown stuff like this at you, would you have had a clue? I had
enough trouble just learning the proper syntax and library routines for
Dartmouth BASIC and Pascal, without having to deal with a lot of
"metaprogramming" stuff.

This is the problem when you get newbies asking questions on a list
whose membership includes hardcore gurus. The gurus look at things in
such a lofty way that answering simple questions at the level of a
beginner sounds like a dissertation on the subtleties of Spanish art in
the 1500s.

Just my opinion.

Paul
  
On that note, what would be a better book to learn from?  I have always 
been a fan of the O'Reilly books, but I am open to differing flavors of 
kool-aid.  One can never have too many resources.


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Bastien Koert]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Paul M Foster wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 03:06:36PM -0500, Bastien Koert wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Don Collier  >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:05:34PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I
> > >>> have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a
> > >>> couple of questions.
> > >>>
> > >>> First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it
> > >>> works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put
> the
> > >>> newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use 
> to
> > >>> do the same thing, but why is it this way?
> > >>>
>
> 
>
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Thanks to everyone that responded.
> > > From what I am seeing in the responses if I plan on using php for
> command
> > > line scripts things get written one way.  If, on the other hand, the
> php is
> > > written for a web page it gets written a slightly different way
> inserting
> > > html where necessary for formatting.
> > >
>
> 
>
> > >
> > Not quite true in a properly layered application. Separating the data
> from
> > the display (whatever that is) is prime idea behind the MVC (Model View
> > Controller) design pattern. This way your code that runs via the CLI
> > (command line) can produce the same data as the code that gets the data
> for
> > the HTML. The only difference is what you plan to do with that data. You
> > could feed it to a controller and let the controller feed it to a View to
> > render in a browser, or send it to a FileOutput class to create a file of
> > the data for comsumption by another resource.
>
> See? This is what I'm talking about.
>
> *I* understand what you're saying, Don, and I agree. But this guy is
> just learning PHP from what is arguably not one of the best books on PHP
> (IMO). And you're throwing MVC at him. Let him master the subtleties of
> the language first, then we'll give him the MVC speech.
>
> Yes, I know, they should learn proper programming practices from the
> beginning, blah blah blah. But think back to the first programming
> language you ever learned, when you were first learning it. If someone
> had thrown stuff like this at you, would you have had a clue? I had
> enough trouble just learning the proper syntax and library routines for
> Dartmouth BASIC and Pascal, without having to deal with a lot of
> "metaprogramming" stuff.
>
> This is the problem when you get newbies asking questions on a list
> whose membership includes hardcore gurus. The gurus look at things in
> such a lofty way that answering simple questions at the level of a
> beginner sounds like a dissertation on the subtleties of Spanish art in
> the 1500s.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul M. Foster
>
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> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Paul,

You make a valid point, but I suggest that once you get beyonds the basics
of programming (loops, if then else, do while etc) and granted that I do not
know where the OP sits in this area, it would have saved me many hours of
frustration, having to unlearn what I know and force feed myself a new
paradigm.

To me its kind of 6 of one and half a dozen of the other...but the
requirement is having that basic programming knowledge that gives a solid
foundation to any language.

My 2 cents...

-- 

Bastien

Cat, the other other white meat

Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Ernie Kemp]

Is there any advantage to using CSS over table and would it be idea to go to 
past website and change them.

/Ernie
- Original Message - 
From: "Stephen" 

Newsgroups: php.general
To: "Paul M Foster" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP question



Paul M Foster wrote:

If you want exact layout (columns
lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.




The horror.

Do not use tables for layout.

Use CSS.

Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8 which 
seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.


Stephen




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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 03:06:36PM -0500, Bastien Koert wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Don Collier wrote:
> 
> >
> >> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:05:34PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I
> >>> have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a
> >>> couple of questions.
> >>>
> >>> First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it
> >>> works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put the
> >>> newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use  to
> >>> do the same thing, but why is it this way?
> >>>



> >>
> >>
> > Thanks to everyone that responded.
> > From what I am seeing in the responses if I plan on using php for command
> > line scripts things get written one way.  If, on the other hand, the php is
> > written for a web page it gets written a slightly different way inserting
> > html where necessary for formatting.
> >



> >
> Not quite true in a properly layered application. Separating the data from
> the display (whatever that is) is prime idea behind the MVC (Model View
> Controller) design pattern. This way your code that runs via the CLI
> (command line) can produce the same data as the code that gets the data for
> the HTML. The only difference is what you plan to do with that data. You
> could feed it to a controller and let the controller feed it to a View to
> render in a browser, or send it to a FileOutput class to create a file of
> the data for comsumption by another resource.

See? This is what I'm talking about.

*I* understand what you're saying, Don, and I agree. But this guy is
just learning PHP from what is arguably not one of the best books on PHP
(IMO). And you're throwing MVC at him. Let him master the subtleties of
the language first, then we'll give him the MVC speech.

Yes, I know, they should learn proper programming practices from the
beginning, blah blah blah. But think back to the first programming
language you ever learned, when you were first learning it. If someone
had thrown stuff like this at you, would you have had a clue? I had
enough trouble just learning the proper syntax and library routines for
Dartmouth BASIC and Pascal, without having to deal with a lot of
"metaprogramming" stuff.

This is the problem when you get newbies asking questions on a list
whose membership includes hardcore gurus. The gurus look at things in
such a lofty way that answering simple questions at the level of a
beginner sounds like a dissertation on the subtleties of Spanish art in
the 1500s.

Just my opinion.

Paul
-- 
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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:40:55PM -0500, Stephen wrote:

> Paul M Foster wrote:
>> If you want exact layout (columns
>> lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
>>
>>
>>
> The horror.
>
> Do not use tables for layout.
>
> Use CSS.
>
> Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8 which
> seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.

I'm happy to be a Luddite in this area. We've been doing websites for
about ten years, and have yet to find it either simple or easy to get
exact, gracefully-degrading layouts with CSS. (We use CSS for all kinds
of nifty things, but not to line things up properly.)

Hey, I've got an idea. If someone knows of one of these uber-web-design
"authorities" who writes books touting the superiority of CSS over
tables, have them write a book showing us all how it's done ["easily"].
I'll be first in line to buy it, because I agree that page layout is not
the original proper use of tables.

Paul

PS: I have to snicker as well anytime Microsoft says they're "compliant"
with *any* standard. Their history speaks for itself; why should we
believe them now?

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Per Jessen]

Don Collier wrote:

> From what I am seeing in the responses if I plan on using php for
> command line scripts things get written one way.  If, on the other
> hand, the php is written for a web page it gets written a slightly
> different way inserting html where necessary for formatting.

No, the scripts are written the same way, but you are using two
different output media, so your output must be different. 

Like Stuart said - if you want your browser to output in text-mode, just
set the right header-type.  (text/plain).



/Per Jessen, Zürich


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Stuart]

2009/1/28 Stephen :
> Don Collier wrote:
>>
>> I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I have
>> a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a couple of
>> questions.
>>
>> First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it works
>> great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put the newline in
>> and the text runs together.  I know that I can use  to do the same
>> thing, but why is it this way?
>>
>> The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting text
>> using printf the padding works great when running from the command line but
>> not at all when in a browser.
>> Here is the code that I am working with:
>>
> Browsers **only** support HTML.
>
> They do not understand things like "\n" to be anything special, so they just
> print as it is sent to the browser.



-Stuart

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Bastien Koert]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Don Collier wrote:

>
>
> Paul M Foster wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:05:34PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I
>>> have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a
>>> couple of questions.
>>>
>>> First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it
>>> works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put the
>>> newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use  to
>>> do the same thing, but why is it this way?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Browser don't break lines on the \n character. They only break on 
>> or  tags. That's just the way it is. You can use the PHP function
>> nl2br() to insert  tags where the \n characters are.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting
>>> text using printf the padding works great when running from the command
>>> line but not at all when in a browser.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Browsers don't respect multiple spaces, etc., except in between certain
>> tags, like . Instead, they combine multiple spaces into a
>> single space and break lines where they like, based on layout. You can
>> use the HTML   character if you don't want lines or phrases to
>> break at the whim of the browser. If you want exact layout (columns
>> lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
> Thanks to everyone that responded.
> From what I am seeing in the responses if I plan on using php for command
> line scripts things get written one way.  If, on the other hand, the php is
> written for a web page it gets written a slightly different way inserting
> html where necessary for formatting.
>
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Not quite true in a properly layered application. Separating the data from
the display (whatever that is) is prime idea behind the MVC (Model View
Controller) design pattern. This way your code that runs via the CLI
(command line) can produce the same data as the code that gets the data for
the HTML. The only difference is what you plan to do with that data. You
could feed it to a controller and let the controller feed it to a View to
render in a browser, or send it to a FileOutput class to create a file of
the data for comsumption by another resource.


-- 

Bastien

Cat, the other other white meat

Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Don Collier]

Paul M Foster wrote:

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:05:34PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:

  

I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I
have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a
couple of questions.

First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it
works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put the
newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use  to
do the same thing, but why is it this way?



Browser don't break lines on the \n character. They only break on 
or  tags. That's just the way it is. You can use the PHP function
nl2br() to insert  tags where the \n characters are.

  

The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting
text using printf the padding works great when running from the command
line but not at all when in a browser.



Browsers don't respect multiple spaces, etc., except in between certain
tags, like . Instead, they combine multiple spaces into a
single space and break lines where they like, based on layout. You can
use the HTML   character if you don't want lines or phrases to
break at the whim of the browser. If you want exact layout (columns
lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.

Paul

  
Thanks to everyone that responded. 

From what I am seeing in the responses if I plan on using php for 
command line scripts things get written one way.  If, on the other hand, 
the php is written for a web page it gets written a slightly different 
way inserting html where necessary for formatting.


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Ashley Sheridan]

On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 14:40 -0500, Stephen wrote:
> Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8
> which 
> seems to be fully CCS standards compliant. 

*snigger*

I'll believe that when I see it, rather I give it to you oh web
developers everywhere, that this is just a new M$ standard of CSS!


Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Stephen]

Paul M Foster wrote:

If you want exact layout (columns
lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.


  

The horror.

Do not use tables for layout.

Use CSS.

Especially now that Microsoft, just this week, is sending out IE 8 which 
seems to be fully CCS standards compliant.


Stephen


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Paul M Foster]

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:05:34PM -0700, Don Collier wrote:

> I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I
> have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a
> couple of questions.
>
> First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it
> works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put the
> newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use  to
> do the same thing, but why is it this way?

Browser don't break lines on the \n character. They only break on 
or  tags. That's just the way it is. You can use the PHP function
nl2br() to insert  tags where the \n characters are.

>
> The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting
> text using printf the padding works great when running from the command
> line but not at all when in a browser.

Browsers don't respect multiple spaces, etc., except in between certain
tags, like . Instead, they combine multiple spaces into a
single space and break lines where they like, based on layout. You can
use the HTML   character if you don't want lines or phrases to
break at the whim of the browser. If you want exact layout (columns
lined up, etc.), the simplest solution is to use HTML tables.

Paul

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Stephen]

Don Collier wrote:
I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I 
have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a 
couple of questions.


First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it 
works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put 
the newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use 
 to do the same thing, but why is it this way?


The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting 
text using printf the padding works great when running from the 
command line but not at all when in a browser.

Here is the code that I am working with:


Browsers **only** support HTML.

They do not understand things like "\n" to be anything special, so they 
just print as it is sent to the browser.


Stephen


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP question

[Per Jessen]

Don Collier wrote:

> First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it
> works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put
> the newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use
>  to do the same thing, but why is it this way? 

That's how HTML works. 

> The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting
> text using printf the padding works great when running from the
> command line but not at all when in a browser.

Same answer. 


/Per Jessen, Zürich


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[PHP] New to PHP question

[Don Collier]

I am just learning PHP from the O'Reilly "Learning PHP 5" book and I 
have a question regarding the formatting of text.  Actually it is a 
couple of questions.


First, when I use the \n and run the script from the command line it 
works great.  When I run the same code in a browser it does not put the 
newline in and the text runs together.  I know that I can use  to 
do the same thing, but why is it this way?


The second question is closely related to the first.  When formatting 
text using printf the padding works great when running from the command 
line but not at all when in a browser. 


Here is the code that I am working with:



Thanks for the help everyone.

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ben Stones]

There are many places to get help when you need it, but a good place is the
unofficial PHP IRC channel. Search on Google for XChat, download it, and
connect to ##PHP in irc.freenode.net. Great place and it seriously has
helped me once or twice. If you don't know about how to use IRC, search on
Google :).

The best bet to grasping PHP logic itself is finding small scripts to learn
and tamper with. Go to www.hotscripts.com and find some unhelpful scripts
from there that you can learn from and modify. Best way of learning PHP
really :). If you are only just starting, tizag.com is a good place to learn
the basics.

Good luck!

2008/10/13 Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I am just starting to learn php, and typically I use newsgroups to
> suppliment the learning process.
>
> Does anyone have any sources that you would reccommend to me and is this
> the
> best NG for me to monitor?...or is there another you might suggest?
>
> Thanks
>
> Gary
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[David Robley]

Juan Jose Rosales Rodriguez wrote:

> He i not speak very good englis, pliss can you tel me abaout list in
> spanich?

News version at news://news.php.net/php.general.es or via http at
http://news.php.net/group.php?group=php.general.es



Cheers
-- 
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Useless Invention: Self stick frying pan.
Today is Boomtime, the 68th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3174. 


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[TG]

The problem with pointing out the pros and cons is that it will lead to 
another holy war. :)

- Original Message -
From: Micah Gersten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: PHP General 
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:48:34 -0500
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP

> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content.  I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.
> 
> Thank you,
> Micah Gersten
> onShore Networks
> Internal Developer
> http://www.onshore.com
> 
> 
> 
> Wolf wrote:
> > By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater 
context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting 
to where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping back and forth to 
read to get the context.


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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Boyd, Todd M.]

> -Original Message-
> From: Micah Gersten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 10:49 AM
> To: PHP General
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP
> 
> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content.  I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.
> 
> Wolf wrote:
> > By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives
> greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the time
> of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping
> back and forth to read to get the context.

The list, however, disagrees with you:

3. Do not top post. Place your answer underneath anyone you wish to quote and 
remove any previous comment that is not relevant to your post.

That is taken from http://us3.php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES . 
Sure, it's labeled as "more of a guideline"... but it is irrefutable proof that 
yes, the mailing list rules DO discuss top posting--and they frown on it.

As for having to scroll to read the new content--first of all, you sound very 
lazy. Second of all, it shouldn't be that big of a deal if people are properly 
trimming their messages.

I might also note:

7. Please configure your email client to use a real name and keep message 
signatures to a maximum of 2 lines if at all necessary.

*cough* ;)


Todd Boyd
Web Programmer

Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Wolf]

 Daniel Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:45 AM, TG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate.  Just know that 
> > some
> > of us prefer top posting.   There's no right/wrong answer to this.
> 
> There is no debate.  There is a right and wrong answer.  Sometimes
> people just need a refresher.
> 
> http://www.php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES
> 
> QUOTE:
> 3. Do not top post. Place your answer underneath anyone you wish to
> quote and remove any previous comment that is not relevant to your
> post.
> 
> This is also addressed in the "Netiquette" RFC (1855).

See, and when you reply, make sure to cut the 10 lines of dan's sig file off.  

Well said Dan!  :) 

Wolf

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Daniel Brown]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:45 AM, TG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate.  Just know that some
> of us prefer top posting.   There's no right/wrong answer to this.

There is no debate.  There is a right and wrong answer.  Sometimes
people just need a refresher.

http://www.php.net/reST/php-src/README.MAILINGLIST_RULES

QUOTE:
3. Do not top post. Place your answer underneath anyone you wish to
quote and remove any previous comment that is not relevant to your
post.

This is also addressed in the "Netiquette" RFC (1855).

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Stut]

On 13 Oct 2008, at 16:48, Micah Gersten wrote:

Wolf wrote:
By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives  
greater context as you read through the previous posts and by the  
time of getting to where the new response is, it is in sync.  No  
skipping back and forth to read to get the context.


The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the  
conversation,

you have to scroll to find the new content.  I guess if you trim and
bottom post it's not so bad.


The major benefit of bottom posting is providing easy-to-read context  
to each message. This is important for those of us on many lists, for  
times when you missed an earlier part of a conversation or when people  
are reading your messages in archives.


At the end of the day it's beneficial to the community at large if  
each individual message can stand on its own. Judicious trimming and  
bottom-posting ensures this and makes list archives more valuable as a  
reference for Googlers.


Of course that's just my opinion and I know many people disagree but  
on this issue discussion is generally pointless since it's a religious  
bike shed.


Praise FSM!

-Stut

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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Jay Blanchard]

[snip]
I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate.  Just know that
some of us prefer top posting.   There's no right/wrong answer to this.
[/snip]

Consider how this would read if I posted above your entry.

But I have trimmed quite nicely thank you! :)

 

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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Juan Jose Rosales Rodriguez]

Ok thank you,  i try learn yor post, and make meny aport, for the list, 
apologize me  for my english, i am new  in this theme but in php i have 
experience. 

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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Juan Jose Rosales Rodriguez]

 
 
Hola.
 
"No son los años los que te enseñan sobre la vida, sino como vives en la vida 
los años"
 Universidad de las Ciencias Informáticas
   Juan José Rosales Rodriguez 
 Tel: 02366792 (Gr) - 078358458 (UCI) 



De: Micah Gersten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: lun 13.10.2008 11:48
Para: PHP General
Asunto: Re: [PHP] New to PHP



The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
you have to scroll to find the new content.  I guess if you trim and
bottom post it's not so bad.

Thank you,
Micah Gersten
onShore Networks
Internal Developer
http://www.onshore.com <http://www.onshore.com/> 



Wolf wrote:
> By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater 
> context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting to 
> where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping back and forth to read 
> to get the context.
>
>  

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Wolf]

 Micah Gersten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
> you have to scroll to find the new content.  I guess if you trim and
> bottom post it's not so bad.
> 
> Thank you,
> Micah Gersten
> onShore Networks
> Internal Developer
> http://www.onshore.com
> 
> 
> 
> Wolf wrote:
> > By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater 
> > context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting 
> > to where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping back and forth to 
> > read to get the context.
> >
> 

Until very recently, everyone was up to speed and trimmed/bottom posted.  It 
does make for better contextual understanding.  Otherwise you have to scroll to 
the bottom and read UP to make sense of the whole of a Post.

Wolf

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Micah Gersten]

The problem with bottom posting is that if you follow the conversation,
you have to scroll to find the new content.  I guess if you trim and
bottom post it's not so bad.

Thank you,
Micah Gersten
onShore Networks
Internal Developer
http://www.onshore.com



Wolf wrote:
> By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater 
> context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting to 
> where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping back and forth to read 
> to get the context.
>
>   

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[TG]

I don't want to get into a bottom vs top posting debate.  Just know that some 
of us prefer top posting.   There's no right/wrong answer to this.

Trimming is always good, though.

I second the recommendations for this mailing list as a good source (as well 
as reading what's posted and seeing if you know or can find out the answer) 
as well as php.net.  The online documentation has tons of great code 
examples.

The best way to learn is really by doing.  Think of a project or exercise 
you'd like to try and see if you can do it in PHP.

One of the best things you can learn as you go, is when it's appropriate to 
use PHP and when it isn't.  Sometimes you can solve your problems with 
simple HTML.  PHP can be useful in many situations, though.  Simple 
situations to some very complex ones.

Also, if you come from a programming background, chances are PHP will 
accomodate whatever programming style you're used to but also remember that 
there are so many pre-made functions in PHP to do so many things, you may 
end up discovering that a function you thought you had to write could be 
done with a simple PHP command.

I worked with a guy once who came from a C programming background.  He wrote 
many functions that he didn't need to because he assumed PHP was as sparse 
as a "real programming language".  

At any rate, you'll learn tons as you go along and probably look back at your 
early efforts and say "What was I thinking?".  Don't worry about it, comes 
with the territory.

-TG

- Original Message -
From: Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: php-general@lists.php.net
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:18:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP

> 
>  Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> > Well...thank you all for the warm and friendly welcome, I will probably 
try 
> > to steer one of my projects to php (or at least a portion of) in a short 
> > while.
> > 
> 
> 
> Gary, one thing to keep in mind is to BOTTOM POST and TRIM your posts.
> 
> By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater 
context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting 
to where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping back and forth to 
read to get the context.
> 
> Trimming is appropriate when addressing a specific entry or when cutting 
off Dan's 12 line signature block to reply to a message.  ;)
> 
> And yeah, you'll find a number of us aren't as serious as others may like.  
:)
> 
> Welcome to the list.  I also keep www.php.net handy and a general rule of 
thumb when using Firefox if you have the google search plug-in running is 
to use "php: " where  is what you are looking to do.  
By prefacing the search with php: google tends to give greater responses 
since it looks for PHP first and then the question.
> 
> HTH.
> Wolf


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Wolf]

 Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Well...thank you all for the warm and friendly welcome, I will probably try 
> to steer one of my projects to php (or at least a portion of) in a short 
> while.
> 


Gary, one thing to keep in mind is to BOTTOM POST and TRIM your posts.

By Bottom Posting (common when on a mailing list or NG) it gives greater 
context as you read through the previous posts and by the time of getting to 
where the new response is, it is in sync.  No skipping back and forth to read 
to get the context.

Trimming is appropriate when addressing a specific entry or when cutting off 
Dan's 12 line signature block to reply to a message.  ;)

And yeah, you'll find a number of us aren't as serious as others may like.  :)

Welcome to the list.  I also keep www.php.net handy and a general rule of thumb 
when using Firefox if you have the google search plug-in running is to use 
"php: " where  is what you are looking to do.  By prefacing 
the search with php: google tends to give greater responses since it looks for 
PHP first and then the question.

HTH.
Wolf

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Gary]

Well...thank you all for the warm and friendly welcome, I will probably try 
to steer one of my projects to php (or at least a portion of) in a short 
while.

One of the things a client wants is a "landing page", so I am assuming that 
php might come in handy for that...

Thank you all and once I get in deeper I'm sure I will have a lot of 
quesitons.

Thanks again

Gary
""Daniel Brown"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Welcome to the list, Gary.
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Sorry if this is a dup, but I posted and it seemed to get lost
>
>Both came through.  Sometimes it just takes a minute or two, and
> you shouldn't get a copy of your own message.
>
>> I am just learning php, and I like to use newsgroups to suppliment the
>> learning process.
>>
>> Can anyone reccomend a good source for information to a newbie and is 
>> this a
>> good forum for my level? or is there another one you might suggest?
>
>Here and http://www.phpbuilder.com/ are the two resources I
> recommend most frequently.
>
> -- 
> 
> More full-root dedicated server packages:
> Intel 2.4GHz/60GB/512MB/2TB $49.99/mo.
> Intel 3.06GHz/80GB/1GB/2TB $59.99/mo.
> Intel 2.4GHz/320/GB/1GB/3TB $74.99/mo.
> Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo. 



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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Juan Jose Rosales Rodriguez]

He i not speak very good englis, pliss can you tel me abaout list in spanich?

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Daniel Brown]

Welcome to the list, Gary.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry if this is a dup, but I posted and it seemed to get lost

Both came through.  Sometimes it just takes a minute or two, and
you shouldn't get a copy of your own message.

> I am just learning php, and I like to use newsgroups to suppliment the
> learning process.
>
> Can anyone reccomend a good source for information to a newbie and is this a
> good forum for my level? or is there another one you might suggest?

Here and http://www.phpbuilder.com/ are the two resources I
recommend most frequently.

-- 

More full-root dedicated server packages:
Intel 2.4GHz/60GB/512MB/2TB $49.99/mo.
Intel 3.06GHz/80GB/1GB/2TB $59.99/mo.
Intel 2.4GHz/320/GB/1GB/3TB $74.99/mo.
Dedicated servers, VPS, and hosting from $2.50/mo.

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Jason Pruim]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Gary wrote:


Sorry if this is a dup, but I posted and it seemed to get lost

I am just learning php, and I like to use newsgroups to suppliment the
learning process.

Can anyone reccomend a good source for information to a newbie and  
is this a
good forum for my level? or is there another one you might  
suggest?



hi Gary,

This is a great place to cut your teeth on php... I was in your boat  
about a year ago, and came to this list and have learned a ton from  
people here... And hopefully I've helped a few people as well.


One thing that I could suggest if you don't have a project you are  
working on currently, every time someone posts a question to the list,  
try and create a solution for it. It not only gets you into the code  
in significant ways that you are more likely to remember, it gives you  
one heck of a code library pretty quickly.


If you have questions, please feel free to post them, but please make  
sure to include the code, php version, and the actual error you are  
seeing. That way we can help you step through it.


Thanks Gary!


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
11287 James St
Holland, MI 49424
www.raoset.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[PHP] New to PHP

[Gary]

Sorry if this is a dup, but I posted and it seemed to get lost

I am just learning php, and I like to use newsgroups to suppliment the 
learning process.

Can anyone reccomend a good source for information to a newbie and is this a 
good forum for my level? or is there another one you might suggest?

Thanks

Gary 



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[PHP] New to PHP

[Gary]

I am just starting to learn php, and typically I use newsgroups to 
suppliment the learning process.

Does anyone have any sources that you would reccommend to me and is this the 
best NG for me to monitor?...or is there another you might suggest?

Thanks

Gary 



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Re: [PHP] New To PHP

[Richard Lynch]

On Tue, February 20, 2007 7:11 pm, Larry Chu wrote:
> I am new to php and was trying to view the code below.  I do see in my
> browser the question that is being asked, but for some reason the
> answer is not displayed.  I am copying this from a book and am sure I
> have typed everything as it should be typed.  Can you please tell mw
> what might be wrong?
>
>   Thank you.
>
>   
> 
> 
> Q: This Creature can change color to blend in with its
> surroundings.
> What is its name?
>// print output
> echo 'A: Chameleon';
> ?>
>   
> 

If you do "View Source" in your browser, do you see the http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch
Yeah, I get a buck. So?

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RE: [PHP] New To PHP

[dhorton]

Are you opening the .php file directly with your browser or via a web server?
Does the web server have PHP support, and is it enabled?
(PHP is server side, not browser side).

Try creating the simple file on the webserver "phpinfo.php" containing just
-
 
-

This should look something like 
http://66.225.219.162/~rvadmin/phpinfo.php
when opened via your web server.

David

>-- Original Message --
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:11:22 -0800 (PST)
>From: Larry Chu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: php-general@lists.php.net
>Subject: [PHP] New To PHP
>
>
>I am new to php and was trying to view the code below.  I do see in my browser
>the question that is being asked, but for some reason the answer is not
displayed.
> I am copying this from a book and am sure I have typed everything as it
>should be typed.  Can you please tell mw what might be wrong? 
>   
>  Thank you.
>   
>  
>
>
>Q: This Creature can change color to blend in with its surroundings.
>What is its name?
>  // print output
>echo 'A: Chameleon';
>?>
>  
>
>   
>   

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Re: [PHP] New To PHP

[Mike Shanley]

Does your server support php? Also, some hosting services require that 
any file with php in it must end with .php ... At least, those are my 
two guesses...


Larry Chu wrote:

  


Q: This Creature can change color to blend in with its surroundings.
What is its name?
  A: Chameleon';
?>
  

  


--
Mike Shanley

~you are almost there~

"A new eye opens on March 5." -Omniversalism.com

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[PHP] New To PHP

[Larry Chu]

I am new to php and was trying to view the code below.  I do see in my browser 
the question that is being asked, but for some reason the answer is not 
displayed.  I am copying this from a book and am sure I have typed everything 
as it should be typed.  Can you please tell mw what might be wrong? 
   
  Thank you.
   
  


Q: This Creature can change color to blend in with its surroundings.
What is its name?
  A: Chameleon';
?>
  

   
   

RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Jay Blanchard]

[snip]
I use Xampp because I'm new to all of this also, and it makes setup a
breeze.
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/
This installs Apache, mysql, php, pearl, ftpzilla, all kinds of stuff,
already configured and ready to rock.
It doesn't get any easier.
[/snip]

Here is another one that works well

http://www.devside.net/

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Mike Rondeau]

I hope you like it. Inside your xampp folder, wherever you installed it to, you 
will find a folder named "htdocs", which is where apache holds your site as far 
as I can tell. So if you were to to create a new php page named newpage.php 
inside your htdocs folder, you can view it in a browser by typing 
http://localhost/newpage.php or else http://127.0.0.1/newpage.php then refresh 
that as you change little details to your css or php code or whatever. 
Localhost or 127.0.0.1 is your server on your computer.

Good luck!
Mike
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jedidiah 
  To: 'Mike Rondeau' 
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:46 PM
  Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP


  Thanks, I just downloaded this.  It looks pretty great.  How does it work?
  Do I have to specify a path on my computer to be the server and move files
  to that server?  Thanks.

  Jedidiah

  -Original Message-
  From: Mike Rondeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:37 PM
  To: php-general@lists.php.net
  Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP

  I use Xampp because I'm new to all of this also, and it makes setup a
  breeze.
  http://www.apachefriends.org/en/
  This installs Apache, mysql, php, pearl, ftpzilla, all kinds of stuff,
  already configured and ready to rock.
  It doesn't get any easier.

  Mike

Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Richard Lynch]

On Thu, January 19, 2006 4:02 pm, Jedidiah wrote:
> I mentioned earlier that I recently switched my site over to PHP.  I
> had a
> couple of reasons for this:
>
> 1: I was using Server Side Includes, and had been told that PHP
> includes
> were better and definitely more popular.
>
> 2: I began sending out a newsletter which was written by someone else
> in
> PHP.
>
> I am beginning to wonder if this was a good idea.  I can no longer
> preview
> my pages without uploading the files to the server.  This can really
> become
> a problem when I am making slight formatting changes to my CSS file
> where I
> need to refresh the page every few seconds until I get the look just
> right.
>
> Is it really worth changing all the files to PHP files and using
> includes?
> Is there any way around this, or am I stuck uploading??

Several options spring to mind.

#1.
Install Apache (free) and PHP (free) and MySQL (free) on your desktop
where you build your pages.

You'll have your own little Intranet with one (1) server (your
computer) and one client (your comupter) and one user (you).

You can then test to your heart's content all kinds of fun stuff in
your page and have no worry that anybody but you will be affected.

This is a pretty standard development model.  Most PHP developers do
this because it's quite easy, and you can then work with any new
technology you want without worrying about it crashing the real
server.

If you have a laptop, you can also then work anywhere at all.

#2.
Consider using a template library such as Smarty so that your Template
files can be viewed/edited independently of the program logic, so that
CSS changes aren't affected as much by PHP, and you MIGHT be able to
skip #1...  But you probably shouldn't.

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Mike Rondeau]

I use Xampp because I'm new to all of this also, and it makes setup a breeze.
http://www.apachefriends.org/en/
This installs Apache, mysql, php, pearl, ftpzilla, all kinds of stuff, already 
configured and ready to rock.
It doesn't get any easier.

Mike
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jesús Fernández 
  Cc: php-general@lists.php.net 
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP


  You can always install Apache+PHP on your box to try it whenever you want...

  --
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  http://www.proyectoanonimo.com

Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Geoff]

I have a local web server running on my development PC, with an 
exact copy of all my sites stored locally, so I can develop and test 
as I go, only uploading when I know everything is 100%.
For Windows machines, you can choose IIS or Apache, although I'd 
recommend you go with whatever your web server is running.

Geoff.


On 19 Jan 2006 at 16:02, Jedidiah wrote:

> I mentioned earlier that I recently switched my site over to PHP.  I had a
> couple of reasons for this:
> 
> 1: I was using Server Side Includes, and had been told that PHP includes
> were better and definitely more popular.
> 
> 2: I began sending out a newsletter which was written by someone else in
> PHP.
> 
>  
> 
> I am beginning to wonder if this was a good idea.  I can no longer preview
> my pages without uploading the files to the server.  This can really become
> a problem when I am making slight formatting changes to my CSS file where I
> need to refresh the page every few seconds until I get the look just right.
> 
> Is it really worth changing all the files to PHP files and using includes?
> Is there any way around this, or am I stuck uploading??
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jedidiah
> 
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:43d01a9147492034818120!
> 

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Jesús Fernández]

You can always install Apache+PHP on your box to try it whenever you want...

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[PHP] New to PHP

[Jedidiah]

I mentioned earlier that I recently switched my site over to PHP.  I had a
couple of reasons for this:

1: I was using Server Side Includes, and had been told that PHP includes
were better and definitely more popular.

2: I began sending out a newsletter which was written by someone else in
PHP.

 

I am beginning to wonder if this was a good idea.  I can no longer preview
my pages without uploading the files to the server.  This can really become
a problem when I am making slight formatting changes to my CSS file where I
need to refresh the page every few seconds until I get the look just right.

Is it really worth changing all the files to PHP files and using includes?
Is there any way around this, or am I stuck uploading??

 

Thanks,


Jedidiah

RE: [PHP] new to php question

[Chris W. Parker]

Luke Brindley 
on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:37 AM said:

> Specifically, I want to create an online form that the
> booking agent can fill out with information like Date, Time, Cover
> Charge, Band Name, Description, etc and have this data populate the
> calendar page in chronological order.

[snip]

> Any suggestions?

are you looking for a premade app or did you have a specific question?

here are some things to think about.

1. do you know how to create a database?
2. do you know how to write SQL queries?
3. do you know how to retrieve data from a database with php?

if you answered no to any of those questions you are probably not ready
to create such a thing. otherwise, ask a more specific question and we
will try to help you out.



hth,
chris.

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[PHP] new to php question

[Luke Brindley]

I'm new to php but want to use it for a music club's website I'm 
working on.  Specifically, I want to create an online form that the 
booking agent can fill out with information like Date, Time, Cover 
Charge, Band Name, Description, etc and have this data populate the 
calendar page in chronological order.  For an example of what I'm 
trying to do check out: http://www.schubas.com/calendar.asp

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your help,
Luke
http://www.brindleybrothers.com

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP form attributes

[Chris Shiflett]

--- Matthew Oatham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am new to PHP and am more used to JSP. My question is - if I
> submit a form to a php3 page using action==""  for
> some processing all is well I can see that form data. After the
> processing the page is redisplayed - but the data originally sent
> persits (in the request)

You need to be more specific here. After the processing, the page is
redisplayed? Does this mean you simply generate the appropriate output (using
include() perhaps), redirect the user somewhere, the user clicks reload, or
what? I would assume the first, but your problem sounds like you are doing
something else.

> if the user was to hit the refresh button then the data is submitted
> to the server again and if for example the php page does an insert
> into a database then a new row would be created etc...

Now this question comes up a lot. There are many ways around it, and you will
probably find more than I can mention by searching the archives. In fact, I'll
only give you one suggestion now.

If you form, form.php, submits to process.php, you can process the form with
process.php and then include a Location header that redirects the user back to
form.php:

header('Location: http://yoursite.org/form.php');

This type of redirection is transparent to history mechanisms, so even clicking
back in the browser won't cause the intermediate page to be displayed. A user
who clicks reload will be reloading the form.php page which only generates the
HTML form.

I recommend searching the archives for other alternatives and choose whichever
one seems best to you.

> Is this normal behaviour of php and jsp?

Yes.

> I am not sure but I am noticing it now with php?

Yes, it seems you are noticing it now, thus your question.

Hope that helps.

Chris

=
My Blog
 http://shiflett.org/
HTTP Developer's Handbook
 http://httphandbook.org/
RAMP Training Courses
 http://www.nyphp.org/ramp

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Re: [PHP] New to PHP form attributes

[Marek Kilimajer]

You should use post method for forms that change state on the server, 
that way the user gets a warning. And you should redirect after 
processing the form to another page.

if($_GET['action']=='submit') {
INSERT INTO table VALUES (NULL, '$_GET[input]'
header('Location: ...');
} else {



}
Matthew Oatham wrote:

Hi,

I am new to PHP and am more used to JSP. My question is - if I submit a 
form to a php3 page using action==""  for some processing 
all is well I can see that form data. After the processing the page is 
redisplayed - but the data originally sent persits (in the request) this 
can be a pain if the user was to hit the refresh button then the data is 
submitted to the server again and if for example the php page does an 
insert into a database then a new row would be created etc...

Is this normal behaviour of php and jsp ? I am not sure but I am 
noticing it now with php ? Should I be clearing the data from the 
request somehow after I have done my processing?

Thanks

Matt

_
It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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[PHP] New to PHP form attributes

[Matthew Oatham]

Hi,

I am new to PHP and am more used to JSP. My question is - if I submit a form 
to a php3 page using action==""  for some processing all is 
well I can see that form data. After the processing the page is redisplayed 
- but the data originally sent persits (in the request) this can be a pain 
if the user was to hit the refresh button then the data is submitted to the 
server again and if for example the php page does an insert into a database 
then a new row would be created etc...

Is this normal behaviour of php and jsp ? I am not sure but I am noticing it 
now with php ? Should I be clearing the data from the request somehow after 
I have done my processing?

Thanks

Matt

_
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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ow Mun Heng]

This is Way Kewl... I'm a part of a team!

Long Live Open Source..

I believe that if it were closed sourced, I would need a least 2x the amount
of time to learn how to code for someone not from an IT/Programming
background.



Cheers,
Mun Heng, Ow
H/M Engineering
Western Digital M'sia 
DID : 03-7870 5168


-Original Message-
From: Ralph Guzman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:23 AM
To: Ow Mun Heng; 'PHP'
Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP


Yes, and also the same Rasmus founder of PHP. From time to time he may
even respond to one of you questions. :-)

And you're right one of the best ways to learn is to look at other open
source code. I've learned how to write efficient code and also learned
programming tricks by studying other code.

Welcome to the team,

-Original Message-
From: Ow Mun Heng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:52 PM
To: PHP
Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP

Wow.. There's a guy named Rasmus here. Is here(or u) the same person who
wrote that book? this is way cool..

Oh.. BTW, "PHP & Mysql Web Development" is GOOD.

Also, since a lot of codes are open sourced, Read through them as well.
I'm
learning through that too. (& this list)

Cheers,
Mun Heng, Ow
H/M Engineering
Western Digital M'sia 
DID : 03-7870 5168


-Original Message-
From: Ralph [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:01 AM
To: 'Hiren Mehta'; 'PHP'
Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP


Here are some sites for you to get started:

http://www.zend.com/developers.php
http://www.phpcomplete.com/tutorials.php
http://www.evilwalrus.com/articles.php

And for books, here are some excellent books I've come across:

Programming PHP
By Rasmus Lerdorf

Web Application Development with PHP 4.0
by Tobias Ratschiller

Professional PHP4 Programming
By Deepak Thomas





-Original Message-
From: Hiren Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:28 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP

Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
the best place to start with besides the manual and what would you
suggest is a pre-requiste for learning PHP.

Thanks

Regards,

Hiren



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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ralph Guzman]

Yes, and also the same Rasmus founder of PHP. From time to time he may
even respond to one of you questions. :-)

And you're right one of the best ways to learn is to look at other open
source code. I've learned how to write efficient code and also learned
programming tricks by studying other code.

Welcome to the team,

-Original Message-
From: Ow Mun Heng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 7:52 PM
To: PHP
Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP

Wow.. There's a guy named Rasmus here. Is here(or u) the same person who
wrote that book? this is way cool..

Oh.. BTW, "PHP & Mysql Web Development" is GOOD.

Also, since a lot of codes are open sourced, Read through them as well.
I'm
learning through that too. (& this list)

Cheers,
Mun Heng, Ow
H/M Engineering
Western Digital M'sia 
DID : 03-7870 5168


-Original Message-
From: Ralph [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:01 AM
To: 'Hiren Mehta'; 'PHP'
Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP


Here are some sites for you to get started:

http://www.zend.com/developers.php
http://www.phpcomplete.com/tutorials.php
http://www.evilwalrus.com/articles.php

And for books, here are some excellent books I've come across:

Programming PHP
By Rasmus Lerdorf

Web Application Development with PHP 4.0
by Tobias Ratschiller

Professional PHP4 Programming
By Deepak Thomas





-Original Message-
From: Hiren Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:28 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP

Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
the best place to start with besides the manual and what would you
suggest is a pre-requiste for learning PHP.

Thanks

Regards,

Hiren



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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ow Mun Heng]

Wow.. There's a guy named Rasmus here. Is here(or u) the same person who
wrote that book? this is way cool..

Oh.. BTW, "PHP & Mysql Web Development" is GOOD.

Also, since a lot of codes are open sourced, Read through them as well. I'm
learning through that too. (& this list)

Cheers,
Mun Heng, Ow
H/M Engineering
Western Digital M'sia 
DID : 03-7870 5168


-Original Message-
From: Ralph [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:01 AM
To: 'Hiren Mehta'; 'PHP'
Subject: RE: [PHP] New to PHP


Here are some sites for you to get started:

http://www.zend.com/developers.php
http://www.phpcomplete.com/tutorials.php
http://www.evilwalrus.com/articles.php

And for books, here are some excellent books I've come across:

Programming PHP
By Rasmus Lerdorf

Web Application Development with PHP 4.0
by Tobias Ratschiller

Professional PHP4 Programming
By Deepak Thomas





-Original Message-
From: Hiren Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:28 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP

Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
the best place to start with besides the manual and what would you
suggest is a pre-requiste for learning PHP.

Thanks

Regards,

Hiren



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Steve Magruder]

Mike Ford wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jeff Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: 07 July 2003 23:27
>>
>> After coding for a while, I would suggest that while you're reading
>> through coding excercises, you find a coding style that works
>> for you and
>> keep it consistant. One of the least fun parts of creating
>> your php pages
>> is reading some code that you coded months (years) ago, and
>> it's totally
>> out of style with everything else that you're doing.
>
> H'mm, yes -- reminds me of the following, which someone taught me in
> the dim-and-distant past and I'm constantly quoting to people who
> don't adequately comment code:
>
> "Someone else's code: code written by someone else, or code written
> by you more than 6 months ago".

And the corollary to is:  Most of what constitutes value in commented code
is the code itself, which exhibits well-named variables, methods, etc. and
well-structured, well-encapsulated algorithms.  When code is structured
appropriately, then the only actual comments needed are to explain unusual
logic or business rules that cannot be easily deciphered from reading the
code.

Steve
-- 

Steve Magruder Consulting - http://consulting.stevemagruder.com



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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ford, Mike [LSS]]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 07 July 2003 23:27
> 
> After coding for a while, I would suggest that while you're reading
> through coding excercises, you find a coding style that works 
> for you and
> keep it consistant. One of the least fun parts of creating 
> your php pages
> is reading some code that you coded months (years) ago, and 
> it's totally
> out of style with everything else that you're doing.

H'mm, yes -- reminds me of the following, which someone taught me in the
dim-and-distant past and I'm constantly quoting to people who don't
adequately comment code:

"Someone else's code: code written by someone else, or code written by you
more than 6 months ago".

Cheers!

Mike

-
Mike Ford,  Electronic Information Services Adviser,
Learning Support Services, Learning & Information Services,
JG125, James Graham Building, Leeds Metropolitan University,
Beckett Park, LEEDS,  LS6 3QS,  United Kingdom
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +44 113 283 2600 extn 4730  Fax:  +44 113 283 3211 

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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ralph]

Here are some sites for you to get started:

http://www.zend.com/developers.php
http://www.phpcomplete.com/tutorials.php
http://www.evilwalrus.com/articles.php

And for books, here are some excellent books I've come across:

Programming PHP
By Rasmus Lerdorf

Web Application Development with PHP 4.0
by Tobias Ratschiller

Professional PHP4 Programming
By Deepak Thomas





-Original Message-
From: Hiren Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 2:28 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP

Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
the best place to start with besides the manual and what would you
suggest is a pre-requiste for learning PHP.

Thanks

Regards,

Hiren



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Jeff Harris]

On Jul 7, 2003, "Steve Keller" claimed that:

|At 7/8/2003 03:30 AM, Hiren Mehta wrote:
|
| > Thnx alot guys You have been of great help :D
|
|And don't forget this list! There are a lot of really talented people on
|this list, so if you're trying to figure something out and haven't been
|able to find an answer on your own, don't hesitate to ask here.
|
|I've learned a lot just by reading the threads started by other people;
|more often than not, someone has already asked or is in the process of
|asking questions about the exact same problem I'm working on.

[snip]

|--
|S. Keller

After coding for a while, I would suggest that while you're reading
through coding excercises, you find a coding style that works for you and
keep it consistant. One of the least fun parts of creating your php pages
is reading some code that you coded months (years) ago, and it's totally
out of style with everything else that you're doing.

One good place is the "Official Pear Coding Standard:"
http://pear.php.net/manual/en/standards.php

Jeff
-- 
Registered Linux user #304026.
"lynx -source http://jharris.rallycentral.us/jharris.asc | gpg --import"
Key fingerprint = 52FC 20BD 025A 8C13 5FC6  68C6 9CF9 46C2 B089 0FED
Responses to this message should conform to RFC 1855.



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Steve Keller]

At 7/8/2003 03:30 AM, Hiren Mehta wrote:

> Thnx alot guys You have been of great help :D

And don't forget this list! There are a lot of really talented people on 
this list, so if you're trying to figure something out and haven't been 
able to find an answer on your own, don't hesitate to ask here.

I've learned a lot just by reading the threads started by other people; 
more often than not, someone has already asked or is in the process of 
asking questions about the exact same problem I'm working on.

There's also a searchable archive of this list at:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-general

Chances are, someone's already asked.

--
S. Keller
UI Engineer
The Health TV Channel, Inc.
(a non - profit organization)
3820 Lake Otis Pkwy.
Anchorage, AK 99508
907.770.6200 ext.220
907.336.6205 (fax)
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.healthtvchannel.org
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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Kevin Stone]

No there are no real pre-requisites to learning PHP.  You should be
comfortable working with the OS that you're used to, but that goes without
saying.  PHP is an almost ideal beginner's language.  Knowledge of Linux is
certainly not required.  There are PHP installers for Windows and Mac that
are point and click.  Very easy step by step.  And there's plenty of easily
accessible info on Google Groups if you get stuck.
- Kevin

- Original Message -
From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP


> Do you suggests any pre-requisites before starting off with the books?
> Someone told me it would be much better if I learn Linux first
> Hiren
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kevin Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "PHP"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP
>
>
> > There are many great books to help get you started.  Infact.. believe it
> or
> > not.. for the complete newbie "PHP for Dummies" is a great chioce.  It's
> > very well written and starts with no assumptions about your skill level.
> >
> > But if you do happen to have some programming experience try "PHP and
> MySQL
> > Web Development" (do a search on Amazon).  That's the book that helped
me
> > out the most.  It has some great real-world examples with complete
> > walk-through tutorials.
> >
> > Don't bother purchasing a function reference becuase the php.net
reference
> > is the best there is.  And it's free.  :)
> >
> > HTH,
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:27 PM
> > Subject: [PHP] New to PHP
> >
> >
> > Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
> the
> > best place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest
is
> a
> > pre-requiste for learning PHP.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hiren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
>
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Hiren Mehta]

Thnx alot guys You have been of great help :D

Regards,
Hiren Mehta

- Original Message -
From: "Ray Hunter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP


> If you are on developing on linux then that would be good.
>
> however, i strongly encourage gaining knowledge of programming concepts
> if that is what you are doing with php. Having a solid foundation of
> programming concepts will help you in php and any other language.
>
> --
> BigDog
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 15:49, Hiren Mehta wrote:
> > Do you suggests any pre-requisites before starting off with the books?
> > Someone told me it would be much better if I learn Linux first
> > Hiren
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Kevin Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "PHP"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP
> >
> >
> > > There are many great books to help get you started.  Infact.. believe
it
> > or
> > > not.. for the complete newbie "PHP for Dummies" is a great chioce.
It's
> > > very well written and starts with no assumptions about your skill
level.
> > >
> > > But if you do happen to have some programming experience try "PHP and
> > MySQL
> > > Web Development" (do a search on Amazon).  That's the book that helped
me
> > > out the most.  It has some great real-world examples with complete
> > > walk-through tutorials.
> > >
> > > Don't bother purchasing a function reference becuase the php.net
reference
> > > is the best there is.  And it's free.  :)
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:27 PM
> > > Subject: [PHP] New to PHP
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would
be
> > the
> > > best place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest
is
> > a
> > > pre-requiste for learning PHP.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Hiren
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Micah Montoy]

Only if you are planning on using PHP & MySQL on Linux.  If you are going
the windows direction, then you don't need too.

good luck


"Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Do you suggests any pre-requisites before starting off with the books?
> Someone told me it would be much better if I learn Linux first
> Hiren
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kevin Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "PHP"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP
>
>
> > There are many great books to help get you started.  Infact.. believe it
> or
> > not.. for the complete newbie "PHP for Dummies" is a great chioce.  It's
> > very well written and starts with no assumptions about your skill level.
> >
> > But if you do happen to have some programming experience try "PHP and
> MySQL
> > Web Development" (do a search on Amazon).  That's the book that helped
me
> > out the most.  It has some great real-world examples with complete
> > walk-through tutorials.
> >
> > Don't bother purchasing a function reference becuase the php.net
reference
> > is the best there is.  And it's free.  :)
> >
> > HTH,
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:27 PM
> > Subject: [PHP] New to PHP
> >
> >
> > Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
> the
> > best place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest
is
> a
> > pre-requiste for learning PHP.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hiren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
>



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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ray Hunter]

If you are on developing on linux then that would be good.

however, i strongly encourage gaining knowledge of programming concepts
if that is what you are doing with php. Having a solid foundation of
programming concepts will help you in php and any other language.

--
BigDog



On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 15:49, Hiren Mehta wrote:
> Do you suggests any pre-requisites before starting off with the books?
> Someone told me it would be much better if I learn Linux first
> Hiren
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kevin Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP
> 
> 
> > There are many great books to help get you started.  Infact.. believe it
> or
> > not.. for the complete newbie "PHP for Dummies" is a great chioce.  It's
> > very well written and starts with no assumptions about your skill level.
> >
> > But if you do happen to have some programming experience try "PHP and
> MySQL
> > Web Development" (do a search on Amazon).  That's the book that helped me
> > out the most.  It has some great real-world examples with complete
> > walk-through tutorials.
> >
> > Don't bother purchasing a function reference becuase the php.net reference
> > is the best there is.  And it's free.  :)
> >
> > HTH,
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:27 PM
> > Subject: [PHP] New to PHP
> >
> >
> > Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
> the
> > best place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest is
> a
> > pre-requiste for learning PHP.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hiren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >
> 


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Hiren Mehta]

Do you suggests any pre-requisites before starting off with the books?
Someone told me it would be much better if I learn Linux first
Hiren

- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Stone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [PHP] New to PHP


> There are many great books to help get you started.  Infact.. believe it
or
> not.. for the complete newbie "PHP for Dummies" is a great chioce.  It's
> very well written and starts with no assumptions about your skill level.
>
> But if you do happen to have some programming experience try "PHP and
MySQL
> Web Development" (do a search on Amazon).  That's the book that helped me
> out the most.  It has some great real-world examples with complete
> walk-through tutorials.
>
> Don't bother purchasing a function reference becuase the php.net reference
> is the best there is.  And it's free.  :)
>
> HTH,
> Kevin
>
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:27 PM
> Subject: [PHP] New to PHP
>
>
> Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
the
> best place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest is
a
> pre-requiste for learning PHP.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards,
>
> Hiren
>
>
>
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>


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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Kevin Stone]

There are many great books to help get you started.  Infact.. believe it or
not.. for the complete newbie "PHP for Dummies" is a great chioce.  It's
very well written and starts with no assumptions about your skill level.

But if you do happen to have some programming experience try "PHP and MySQL
Web Development" (do a search on Amazon).  That's the book that helped me
out the most.  It has some great real-world examples with complete
walk-through tutorials.

Don't bother purchasing a function reference becuase the php.net reference
is the best there is.  And it's free.  :)

HTH,
Kevin


- Original Message -
From: "Hiren Mehta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PHP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 3:27 PM
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP


Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be the
best place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest is a
pre-requiste for learning PHP.

Thanks

Regards,

Hiren




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Re: [PHP] New to PHP

[Ray Hunter]

here is what you can do:

1. buy a php book and go throw the basics.
2. read the php manual because it has tons of information.
3. write any type of program that you can to get familiar w/ language.
4. get a fundamental understanding of programming, object oriented
programming

Just my $0.02 for ya

--
BigDog



On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 15:27, Hiren Mehta wrote:
> Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be the best 
> place to start with besides the manual and what would you suggest is a pre-requiste 
> for learning PHP.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Hiren


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RE: [PHP] New to PHP

[Joe Harman]

Hi Hiren,

PHP is a great choice, there are a wealth of tutorials on the
Internet!!! I would recommend a great book for people like yourself...
PHP Fast and Easy by Julie Meloni... You can visit her website at
http://www.thickbook.com 

I have both of her PHP books, and out of the 8 books on PHP hers are the
ones I still use the most... Good luck
Joe

-Original Message-
From: Hiren Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 5:28 PM
To: PHP
Subject: [PHP] New to PHP


Hi I am new to PHP and would like to learn more about it. Which would be
the best place to start with besides the manual and what would you
suggest is a pre-requiste for learning PHP.

Thanks

Regards,

Hiren


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