[PHP] isset($a-b) even if $a-b = null
how do i test if a property of a stdclass object is set, even if its value is null, similar to how array_key_exists() works for arrays. the following method fails: $a-b = null; if(isset($a-b)) echo yes; and property_exists() seems only to work for defined objects. hope someone can help. thanks! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] isset($a-b) even if $a-b = null
Olav Mørkrid schreef:
how do i test if a property of a stdclass object is set, even if its
value is null, similar to how array_key_exists() works for arrays.
the following method fails:
$a-b = null;
if(isset($a-b))
echo yes;
and property_exists() seems only to work for defined objects.
hope someone can help. thanks!
if (isset($a - b) $a - b != null) { echo yes; }
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Re: [PHP] isset($a-b) even if $a-b = null
On 8/17/07, Olav Mørkrid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
how do i test if a property of a stdclass object is set, even if its
value is null, similar to how array_key_exists() works for arrays.
the following method fails:
$a-b = null;
if(isset($a-b))
echo yes;
and property_exists() seems only to work for defined objects.
hope someone can help. thanks!
Seems your asking for something similar to perl's exists() function..
Best I can come up with is...
$a-b = null;
if (is_null($a-b) || isset($a-b)) {
print yes;
}
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[PHP] Re: =?unknown?b?ztK5q8u+09C/7MvZvu3DxaOsv+zL2czhyf3DxaOsuaTStcjtw8WjrLj31tbI7aOs07JQVkPNuMP3sOWjrLSwwbEsy9zBz8a/sMu088+1wdA=?=
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[PHP] Re: php-general =?unknown?b?zOG5qUNETUHO3s/fuau7sLL6xrc=?=
ÄãºÃ! Unknown command - ÄúÃ!. Try HELP. ÎÒ¹«Ë¾ÌṩCDMAÎÞÏß¹«»°²úÆ·,²úÆ·°üÀ¨CDMAת½ÓºÐ/CDMAÉÌÎñµç»°,ÓÐÒÔÏÂ4ÖÖ·þÎñ Unknown command - ÎÒ¹«Ë¾ÌÁ¹©CDMAÎÞÏß¹«»°²ÚÆ·,²ÚÆ·°ÜÀ¨CDMAת½ÓºÐ. Try HELP. ·½Ê½: Unknown command - ·½Ê½:. Try HELP. (1)Ö±½ÓÏúÊÛÎÒ¹«Ë¾Æ·ÅƵÄCDMAÎÞÏß¹«»°²úÆ·. Unknown command - (1)Ö±½ÓÏÚÊÛÎÒ¹«Ë¾Æ·ÅƵÄCDMAÎÞÏß¹«»°²ÚÆ·.. Try HELP. (2)ÌṩOEM»òODM·þÎñ. Unknown command - (2)ÌÁ¹©OEM»ÒODM·ÞÎÑ.. Try HELP. (3)ÌṩºËÐÄCDMAÄ£¿é¼°ÎÞÏß¹«»°È«ÌײúÆ·µÄ½â¾ö·½°¸/µç·ͼ. Unknown command - (3)ÌÁ¹©ºËÐÄCDMAÄ£¿É¼°ÎÞÏß¹«»°È«ÌײÚÆ·µÄ½Â¾Ö·½°¸. Try HELP. (4)ÌṩÆäËûCDMAÎÞÏßÓ¦ÓÃ(CDMAIC¿¨µç»°/ÎÞÏß²ÊƱ»ú/ÎÞÏßPOS»ú)µÄCDMAÓ¦Óýâ¾ö Unknown command - (4)ÌÁ¹©ÆÄËÛCDMAÎÞÏßÓ¦ÓÃ. Try HELP. ·½°¸. Unknown command - ·½°¸.. Try HELP. ²úÆ·×ÊÁϼ°ÏêϸÐÅÏ¢,ÇëÀ´µç×Éѯ. Unknown command - ²ÚÆ·×ÊÁϼ°ÏÊϸÐÅÏ¢,ÇËÀ´µÇ×Éѯ.. Try HELP. µç»°:13305829981 E-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unknown command - µÇ»°:13305829981. Try HELP. All subsequent commands have been flushed. Summary of resource utilization --- CPU time:0.010 sec Overhead CPU:0.000 sec CPU model: sun4u Job origin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
At 02:36 30.01.2003, Webapprentice said: [snip] Hi, I have a conditional: if (a == b) a is the number 0, but b is a string Friday August 22. The condition is evaluating as true, which is not what I want. What am I misunderstanding? [snip] PHP tries to help you - you can only compare data of the same type. So PHP goes ahead and casts this for you, a string to int in this case. If you compare it using === (typesafe comparison) you will get correct results. -- O Ernest E. Vogelsinger (\)ICQ #13394035 ^ http://www.vogelsinger.at/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] if (a == b) ...
Hi, I have a conditional: if (a == b) a is the number 0, but b is a string Friday August 22. The condition is evaluating as true, which is not what I want. What am I misunderstanding? Thanks, Stephen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
I have a conditional:
if (a == b)
a is the number 0, but b is a string Friday August 22.
The condition is evaluating as true, which is not what I want.
What am I misunderstanding?
You're comparing a string to a number perhaps?
I tried this:
-8-
$a = 0;
$b = Friday August 22;
if ($a == $b)
{
echo match;
} else {
echo no match;
}
-8-
and resulted in 'match', then I tried this:
-8-
$a = 0;
$b = Friday August 22;
if ($a == $b)
{
echo match;
} else {
echo no match;
}
-8-
and resulted in 'no match'.
It's worth remembering that the number 0 has somewhat special meaning in
php as a true/false indication.
CYA, Dave
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Re: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
On Thursday 30 January 2003 02:39, David Freeman wrote:
-8-
$a = 0;
$b = Friday August 22;
-8-
and resulted in 'no match'.
Or try
$a = 0;
$c = (string) $a; // Now $c == 0
or
if (( (string) $a == (string) $b)) {
...
The manual could be your friend, too:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.type-juggling.php
johannes
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RE: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
Stephen, Friday August 22 evaluates to the number 0. (check the docs for intval()) Therefore the condition would be true. I stated in an earlier thread this week. It is bad for to allow PHP todo your conversions for you. At the least it's lazy, at the most it will cause unpredictable results. (as is your case below.) If you really MUST compare a string and a number, do an explicit cast first. if ($a==intval(Friday August 22)) or if (strval($a)==Friday August 22) In both cases above, since we are explicitly casting, it is easy to predict the results and explain them. (In the above, the first should be true and the second should be false.) =C= * * Cal Evans * Stay plugged into your audience. * http://www.christianperformer.com * -Original Message- From: Webapprentice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] if (a == b) ... Hi, I have a conditional: if (a == b) a is the number 0, but b is a string Friday August 22. The condition is evaluating as true, which is not what I want. What am I misunderstanding? Thanks, Stephen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
Cal, Thanks for the suggestion. I looked up equality on www.php.net, and there are many comments about how == works. I also found out === works too, or is that still lazy? Thanks, Stephen Cal Evans wrote: Stephen, Friday August 22 evaluates to the number 0. (check the docs for intval()) Therefore the condition would be true. I stated in an earlier thread this week. It is bad for to allow PHP todo your conversions for you. At the least it's lazy, at the most it will cause unpredictable results. (as is your case below.) If you really MUST compare a string and a number, do an explicit cast first. if ($a==intval(Friday August 22)) or if (strval($a)==Friday August 22) In both cases above, since we are explicitly casting, it is easy to predict the results and explain them. (In the above, the first should be true and the second should be false.) =C= * * Cal Evans * Stay plugged into your audience. * http://www.christianperformer.com * -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
$a === $b
TRUE if $a is equal to $b, and they are of the same type. (PHP 4 only)
-Original Message-
From: David Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] if (a == b) ...
I have a conditional:
if (a == b)
a is the number 0, but b is a string Friday August 22.
The condition is evaluating as true, which is not what I want.
What am I misunderstanding?
You're comparing a string to a number perhaps?
I tried this:
-8-
$a = 0;
$b = Friday August 22;
if ($a == $b)
{
echo match;
} else {
echo no match;
}
-8-
and resulted in 'match', then I tried this:
-8-
$a = 0;
$b = Friday August 22;
if ($a == $b)
{
echo match;
} else {
echo no match;
}
-8-
and resulted in 'no match'.
It's worth remembering that the number 0 has somewhat special meaning in
php as a true/false indication.
CYA, Dave
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Re: [PHP] Re: http$B$G%;%C%7%g%s$r3+;O$7$?l9g!(Bhttps$B$X9T$C$F$b7QB3$5$l$k$N$G$7$g$$+!)(B
Hi BAROILLER Pierre-Emmanuel, On Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:34:56 +0100, you wrote about [PHP] Re: http$B$G%;%C%7%g%s$r3+;O$7$?l9g!(Bhttps$B$X9T$C$F$b7QB3$5$l$k$N$G$7$g$$+!)(B something that looked like this: Hi ! Could you write it in english please ? Yeah ... not alot of people here can read Japanese... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: http$B$G%;%C%7%g%s$r3+;O$7$?l9g!(Bhttps$B$X9T$C$F$b7QB3$5$l$k$N$G$7$g$$+!)(B
Hi ! Could you write it in english please ? Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] a ecrit dans le message de news: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PHP$B=i?4T$G$9!#+J,$J$j$K$$$m$$$m$HD4$Y$F$_$^$7$?$,$o$+$i$J$+$C$?$N$G!(B $B$*CN7C$rGRZ$5$;$F$/$@$5$$!#(B $BNc$($P!(Bhttp://www.mydomain.com$B$G%;%C%7%g%s$r3+;O$7!$=$N8e!(B https://www.mydomain.com/regist.htm$B$X0\F0$7$?$H$-$K!%;%C%7%g%s$O7QB3$5(B $B$l$k$N$G$7$g$$+!)(B $BJL%5!%P!$X0\F0$9$k$H%;%C%7%g%s$O=*N;$9$k$HJ9$-$^$7$?!#%I%a%$%sItJ,$,F1(B $B$8$G$b(Bhttps://$B$K$J$k$3$H$G!JL%I%a%$%s$H$7$FG'1$5$l$k$N$G$O$J$$$+$H?4G[(B $B$7$F$$$^$9!#$^$@(BSSL Cert$B$rGc$C$F$$$J$$$N$G!%F%9%H$G$-$J$$$N$G$9!#(B $B$h$m$7$/$*4j$$CW$7$^$9!#(B $B:d!!N2p(B -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
From: Andreas D. Landmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd second this suggestion, the general list has become flooded with posts that seems like a pop-quiz taken straight from the manual... Right. I've just signed up the list and I've all but given up on trying to follow things. Just way too much traffic for a mailing list to have. If a seperate list for support or tutor or whatever you want to call gets started, I'll be happy to volunteer my time to assist people but I'd really like to be able to keep up with this list as I'm sure there are some great advanced threads that I'm missing. Joel -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
At 04.08.2001 17:27, Joel Ricker wrote: Similarly the FAQ is easy to find, and I do believe the words support suggest where help may be found. Actually my suggestion would be to take a page from way the Python lists are and call it tutor or PHP-tutor. I'd second this suggestion, the general list has become flooded with posts that seems like a pop-quiz taken straight from the manual... don't get me wrong, I'm not a newbiebasher (well, sometimes ;-), but wading through simple posts is getting a bit tedious... -- Andreas D Landmark / noXtension Real Time, adj.: Here and now, as opposed to fake time, which only occurs there and then. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
I think the problem with spreading out discussions that can be as broad as the PHP discussion is that you still tend to have people gravitate towards some of the more general or higher level discussion groups regardless of whether or not it should fall into the newbie category or not. This is for a couple of reasons: 1) Newbies may think that their newbie group is read mainly by newbies...so their question either might not get answered at all or will not receive the thorough answer they were hoping for. 2) Being a newbie, they might think that their question is worthy (for lack of a better term) of higher level discussion because, to them, it is a very difficult problem to solve. ...not to mention that questions would then be spammed across multiple mailing lists anyway. Either way, we would still need a PHP General Forum, so I am not convinced that creating more specialized mailing lists would accomplish much more than creating MORE mail traffic (from the spammed questions) and alienating people who used the more specialized lists because most everyone else is still mainly reading the General Forum. My 2 copper pieces worth. Sam Masiello Software Quality Assurance Engineer Synacor (716) 853-1362 x289 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Darren Henderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:41 AM To: B. van Ouwerkerk Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk) On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens on all the mailing lists I've seen that are devoted to questions. The real problem here is that the list is simply too busy. I can do no more then skim the subject lines and then usually delete all of it unless something jumps out at me. It might be helpful if some new mailing lists were created, it wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would help if there were some degree of self selecting behavior possible. Currenty all questions go to php-general. If there were, say, a php-newuser and a php-questions list then perhaps php-general could be used for slightly higher level discussions. Actually its probably too late to save php-general, hard to get people to change. Maybe a new list that caters to a higher level of discussion, say php-authoring or the like? Just a thought. So much tends to get lost or over looked in high volume mailing lists. Darren Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
Similarly the FAQ is easy to find, and I do believe the words support suggest where help may be found. Actually my suggestion would be to take a page from way the Python lists are and call it tutor or PHP-tutor. Joel -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens on all the mailing lists I've seen that are devoted to questions. The real problem here is that the list is simply too busy. I can do no more then skim the subject lines and then usually delete all of it unless something jumps out at me. It might be helpful if some new mailing lists were created, it wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would help if there were some degree of self selecting behavior possible. Currenty all questions go to php-general. If there were, say, a php-newuser and a php-questions list then perhaps php-general could be used for slightly higher level discussions. Actually its probably too late to save php-general, hard to get people to change. Maybe a new list that caters to a higher level of discussion, say php-authoring or the like? Just a thought. So much tends to get lost or over looked in high volume mailing lists. Darren Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] Re: New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
selecting behavior possible. Currenty all questions go to php-general. If there were, say, a php-newuser and a php-questions list then perhaps php-general could be used for slightly higher level discussions. Actually This paricular can of worms has been discussed *WAY* too often already. Check the archives. We've already split off a half-dozen lists, to varying degress of success... For sure, there are far too many INSTALL and WINDOWS questions here in GENERAL, when there's perfectly good lists for those questions! What *DOES* work well in my limited experience is regional lists set up by PHP User Groups... Anybody else experience this or have an alternate experience? Respond off-list please. I'll summarize. Frequent Posters of questions that are in the manual usually figure out how to work the manual sooner or later. If you can't handle the volume, consider using news://news.php.net or set up some filters in your email client to weed out the crap. PS Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was just as bad as the people being publicly berated. Cut them some slack, email them off-line to explain how to work the system to their advantage, and let's get back to work :-) -- WARNING [EMAIL PROTECTED] address is an endangered species -- Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wanna help me out? Like Music? Buy a CD: http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm Volunteer a little time: http://chatmusic.com/volunteer.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
IMO: There should be something like the OpenBSD-misc = PHP General, and OpenBS-Tech = A more advanced list... Please do not cross post... Regards, Martin Marconcini www.marconcini.com.ar Life must be lived looking forward and can be understood only looking backward. Soren Kierkegaard -Original Message- From: Sam Masiello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:15 PM To: Darren Henderson Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk) I think the problem with spreading out discussions that can be as broad as the PHP discussion is that you still tend to have people gravitate towards some of the more general or higher level discussion groups regardless of whether or not it should fall into the newbie category or not. This is for a couple of reasons: 1) Newbies may think that their newbie group is read mainly by newbies...so their question either might not get answered at all or will not receive the thorough answer they were hoping for. 2) Being a newbie, they might think that their question is worthy (for lack of a better term) of higher level discussion because, to them, it is a very difficult problem to solve. ...not to mention that questions would then be spammed across multiple mailing lists anyway. Either way, we would still need a PHP General Forum, so I am not convinced that creating more specialized mailing lists would accomplish much more than creating MORE mail traffic (from the spammed questions) and alienating people who used the more specialized lists because most everyone else is still mainly reading the General Forum. My 2 copper pieces worth. Sam Masiello Software Quality Assurance Engineer Synacor (716) 853-1362 x289 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Darren Henderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:41 AM To: B. van Ouwerkerk Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk) On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens on all the mailing lists I've seen that are devoted to questions. The real problem here is that the list is simply too busy. I can do no more then skim the subject lines and then usually delete all of it unless something jumps out at me. It might be helpful if some new mailing lists were created, it wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would help if there were some degree of self selecting behavior possible. Currenty all questions go to php-general. If there were, say, a php-newuser and a php-questions list then perhaps php-general could be used for slightly higher level discussions. Actually its probably too late to save php-general, hard to get people to change. Maybe a new list that caters to a higher level of discussion, say php-authoring or the like? Just a thought. So much tends to get lost or over looked in high volume mailing lists. Darren Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] New lists (was [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk)
Darren, et. al., Everything gets posted here - general syntax, database and install questions. Just look at the volume of php-mysql related questions; if they were directly posted on php-db the volume would drop to a more manageable level. Similarly, usage of php-install would help reduce traffic on php-general. VB used to be on just one list; it was broken up into several lists and all that resulted was a slew of cross postings, with no drop in volume. Similarly there is no dearth of material on getting started with PHP. Maybe we just have to be a little tougher, collectively, and when truly elementary questions appear, politely and firmly direct the inquirer to the tutorials. I'd also suggest that links to the FAQ and Tutorials be prominently displayed on php.net's home page. NO NO NO - I'm wrong they ARE there, and pretty easy to find, and the tutorial page has links to other tutorials. Similarly the FAQ is easy to find, and I do believe the words support suggest where help may be found. Maybe the problem is a poor educational system; some people are just too lazy to do research / properly phrase a query for a search engine / experiment a bit before posting? I also suppose that the demand for dynamic web pages is driving people who primarily worked with html (maybe with visual tools) into a programming environment. They suddenly have to cope with flow control, tests and, quite often, use of a database too. Pretty daunting. I do not believe a PHP-Newuser or PHP-Questions list would solve anything; all questions at that level can be answered through various tutorials and by WORKING THROUGH examples. I don't mean just cutting and pasting them, but changing them, breaking them, and finding out what happens. And as for newbie-ishness, hell's bells, all languages /environments reduce us to that state at one time or another. I've been guilty of misplaced }, most famously when I plaintively demanded why my while loop wasn't looping. A keen-eyed reader spotted it. Newbie question? Yes. What I was trying to do with the loop? Don't think so. I've written enough - Miles PS For the first time a certain correspondent has come perilously close to auto-consignment to trash; instead he needs a high level of tough love. At 10:40 AM 8/2/01 -0400, Darren Henderson wrote: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens on all the mailing lists I've seen that are devoted to questions. The real problem here is that the list is simply too busy. I can do no more then skim the subject lines and then usually delete all of it unless something jumps out at me. It might be helpful if some new mailing lists were created, it wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would help if there were some degree of self selecting behavior possible. Currenty all questions go to php-general. If there were, say, a php-newuser and a php-questions list then perhaps php-general could be used for slightly higher level discussions. Actually its probably too late to save php-general, hard to get people to change. Maybe a new list that caters to a higher level of discussion, say php-authoring or the like? Just a thought. So much tends to get lost or over looked in high volume mailing lists. Darren Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
so now it's shifted from his attitude to your seeming inability to cope with words related to sexual intercourse? we all need to calm down and relax. -Original Message- From: Alexander Wagner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. You didn't even RTFM him. I found it to be more like RTM, the more gentle version (the one without words connected to sexual intercourse). Your answer was short, but not harsh. I thought so, anyway. regards Wagner -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
scott [gts] wrote: so now it's shifted from his attitude to your seeming inability to cope with words related to sexual intercourse? we all need to calm down and relax. Hey, all I said was that he did not RTFM, but RTM, the version without fucking. regards Wagner -- Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
What!!? I always thought it was the fine manual. Gosh, I'm so naive. Blushing in Nova Scotia - Miles At 04:39 PM 8/1/01 +0200, Alexander Wagner wrote: scott [gts] wrote: so now it's shifted from his attitude to your seeming inability to cope with words related to sexual intercourse? we all need to calm down and relax. Hey, all I said was that he did not RTFM, but RTM, the version without fucking. regards Wagner -- Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, Steve Wright -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
It's not the first time and I've mentioned it before. I in fact just emailed all those off list from that thread. One reason why PHP has lured many in is it's ease of use and it's FRIENDLY user community. Sure some people come on here and ask simple questions, maybe ones that can be found in the manual but they are starting out and need a bit of a kick start. Lets remain friendly...it's why I'm still around :) Jeff www.hyrum.net www.xnull.com -Original Message- From: Steve Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:22 PM To: PHP List Subject: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, Steve Wright -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
im gonna stay neutral in this conversation even though i know B Van hates my guts! But hey, im a newbie and yes i do need a kick start, but he doesnt have to be such a moody git. -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com New address new site ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: Jeff Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]; PHP List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk It's not the first time and I've mentioned it before. I in fact just emailed all those off list from that thread. One reason why PHP has lured many in is it's ease of use and it's FRIENDLY user community. Sure some people come on here and ask simple questions, maybe ones that can be found in the manual but they are starting out and need a bit of a kick start. Lets remain friendly...it's why I'm still around :) Jeff www.hyrum.net www.xnull.com -Original Message- From: Steve Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:22 PM To: PHP List Subject: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, Steve Wright -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
This is not to condone discourtesy, but the key to this complaint is being on the list for a while. In the everyday friction of life, terse emails are easily misinterpreted. I happen to feel that van Ouwerkerk's reponse is not disgraceful, and attributing it to his attitude is a leap of the imagination. Sometimes one feels like being curt to those myriad posts that ask questions, maybe 30-50 percent of the posts on this list, where the answer is in the manual. One could allege discourtesy to those people that abuse the list by asking questions that are in the manual. The point is, it would be also legitimate for anyone to complain about the disgraceful attitude of of people who post before looking. I would think it appropriate that the dues for posting should be that at least individuals search the manual first. The occasional poster that missed the item in the search in the manual would certainly be easily tolerated. _jef -- Steve Wright wrote: I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, -- -- Justin Farnsworth Eye Integrated Communications 321 South Evans - Suite 203 Greenville, NC 27858 | Tel: (252) 353-0722 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
PhP'ers I would suggest that people not think too hard about this and continue programming. Thats right get back to work...:) Have Fun! --ccma -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I've just looked at his emails for the last week, and he is a helpful guy! Not only is he helpful, I'll wager he's being helpful in a language that's not his native tongue, so it's utterly unreasonable to expect the subtle 'gentle' idioms that you might get from a native speaker who had plenty of time to construct an email, and plenty of patience for someone who should have RTFM. I say, be grateful he is sparing some time to contribute! -- Phil Driscoll -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
on 7/31/01 12:37 PM, scott [gts] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... once again, scott, you seem to have a nice concise way of putting things :) newbies are part of internet communities, as are old curmudgeons. thankfully, so too are the wise, willing to share their knowledge. recently, Brian White mentioned a propsed faq for the headers already sent question. also, Philip Olson mentioned a link at php.faqts. what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? i have been saving good responses to faq type questions with the intent of putting a faq together. now is as good a time as any. i'll post something in a couple days. that way, we can politley say to newcomers. hey, nice to have you around. hope we can help you out some. two places you should go to get started are php.net and link.to.list.faq let me know if there already is one. have a day, mike -- mike cullerton -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Not for this list specifically, and not as well used as it might be ;) http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php Kirk what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
ok just cut the crap now and get back to whats really important, helping people!!! -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com New address new site ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: Johnson, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: php [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Not for this list specifically, and not as well used as it might be ;) http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php Kirk what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I don't think this is just crap. Not everyone keeps up with the manual (too bad) and sending stuff to the list is just the convenient thing do. As the list grows, there will always be new newbies, there will be questions that have been asked before. Long term users might get annoyed. I think what we should do is to respond to this kind of questions by just refering to the documentation, not more. So we don't spoil the newbies, but also we don't need to bash them arround. At 08:29 PM 7/31/2001 -0700, Kyle Smith wrote: ok just cut the crap now and get back to whats really important, helping people!!! -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com New address new site ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: Johnson, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: php [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Not for this list specifically, and not as well used as it might be ;) http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php Kirk what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ezra Nugroho Web/Database Application Specialist Goshen College ITS Phone: (219) 535-7706 Don't be humble, you're not that great. -- Golda Meir -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Let me give just one reply.. I did read them all.. I don't hate Kyle Smith /me rather uses the energy needed to hate in a positive way.. Like to write docs for an opensource project. Did a rewrite once.. Phil Driscoll.. you win. I'm Dutch. No I don't have time to go a few times over my mail just to see if I can put things nicer or just in another way. Have to develop some applications.. learn new stuff.. review old code to make it better.. I keep on learning :-) I agree with Justin Farnsworth and Scott [gts].. (And a few others..) I don't think I've got an attitude problem. I don't know everything but I do bother to find information before I start asking questions to others who need to spend their VALUABLE time on MY problem. IMHO someone who found php.net and this list to ask his/her question should also have clicked on the DOCUMENTATION and downloaded the manual of his/her taste. I'd say only ask your question if it's not in the docs (perhaps not 100% clear) or in the archive.. Searchengines can be a great source too.. If it's in the archive it will cost less time then to wait for an answer. Sure you can look over something even if it's staring in your face.. I'm quite sure others will point that out to anyone who send a question.. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. I find it worth mentioning that he finally downloaded the manual.. Enough bandwith and time wasted. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Yes, i did download the manual the reason why i come here first is cause when i ask people who know it alread yi know i will get a straight answer and people will put it in a more understandable way then a lot of the tutorials -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com Home of the burning lego man! ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: B. van Ouwerkerk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Let me give just one reply.. I did read them all.. I don't hate Kyle Smith /me rather uses the energy needed to hate in a positive way.. Like to write docs for an opensource project. Did a rewrite once.. Phil Driscoll.. you win. I'm Dutch. No I don't have time to go a few times over my mail just to see if I can put things nicer or just in another way. Have to develop some applications.. learn new stuff.. review old code to make it better.. I keep on learning :-) I agree with Justin Farnsworth and Scott [gts].. (And a few others..) I don't think I've got an attitude problem. I don't know everything but I do bother to find information before I start asking questions to others who need to spend their VALUABLE time on MY problem. IMHO someone who found php.net and this list to ask his/her question should also have clicked on the DOCUMENTATION and downloaded the manual of his/her taste. I'd say only ask your question if it's not in the docs (perhaps not 100% clear) or in the archive.. Searchengines can be a great source too.. If it's in the archive it will cost less time then to wait for an answer. Sure you can look over something even if it's staring in your face.. I'm quite sure others will point that out to anyone who send a question.. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. I find it worth mentioning that he finally downloaded the manual.. Enough bandwith and time wasted. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. You didn't even RTFM him. I found it to be more like RTM, the more gentle version (the one without words connected to sexual intercourse). Your answer was short, but not harsh. I thought so, anyway. regards Wagner PS: Enough said. -- Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I agree with the try to answer your own question first theory that you propose... I have used PHP for almost 2 years now, and just subscribed to this list a month or two ago, but have yet to ask a single question... But I realize we're all at different skill levels, and so far, I haven't done anything as advanced as some of the members of this list. :) I think it's great that the members of this list are as selfless as they are in helping people try to solve their problems and helping newbies learn how to do some great things with PHP, but it seems to me that it is -much- more time intensive to subscribe to this list and post a message saying how do I send mail with PHP? than to go to www.php.net and click on Mail functions in the manual. :) Perhaps the Mailing Lists page on php.net could have a paragraph at the top saying before asking for help on the PHP mailing lists, check the linkannotated manual/link for examples and explanations ? Anyone else agree? As for the FAQ proposal, I think it would be great for someone to set up a site where FAQ items could be posted (no matter -how- trivial they may seem to an experienced PHP user) and moderated into a heirarchy by subject... The annotations in the PHP manual can be incredibly helpful on occasion. --Matt -Original Message- From: B. van Ouwerkerk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Let me give just one reply.. I did read them all.. I don't hate Kyle Smith /me rather uses the energy needed to hate in a positive way.. Like to write docs for an opensource project. Did a rewrite once.. Phil Driscoll.. you win. I'm Dutch. No I don't have time to go a few times over my mail just to see if I can put things nicer or just in another way. Have to develop some applications.. learn new stuff.. review old code to make it better.. I keep on learning :-) I agree with Justin Farnsworth and Scott [gts].. (And a few others..) I don't think I've got an attitude problem. I don't know everything but I do bother to find information before I start asking questions to others who need to spend their VALUABLE time on MY problem. IMHO someone who found php.net and this list to ask his/her question should also have clicked on the DOCUMENTATION and downloaded the manual of his/her taste. I'd say only ask your question if it's not in the docs (perhaps not 100% clear) or in the archive.. Searchengines can be a great source too.. If it's in the archive it will cost less time then to wait for an answer. Sure you can look over something even if it's staring in your face.. I'm quite sure others will point that out to anyone who send a question.. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. I find it worth mentioning that he finally downloaded the manual.. Enough bandwith and time wasted. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Ok, I've been following this thread for the last few minutes ... and I have to wonder what is this list for if not to ask questions, thereby learning. Yes there's tons of different resources online, yup, that would mean this is one too. If you don't want to waste your time and read a question, then answer it ... fine, don't, erase it, and move on with your life. But lets not talk down the people who ask questions and make them feel worse for asking. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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$B!z!z(B Chyoi Machi Mail $B!z!z(B $B>pJsDs6!4k6HL>(B : NET-DOCONO $B"!!~"!!~"!!~"!!~(B http://sv.g-spot.to/docono/ $B$M$'$M$'J9$$$F$h(B $B$*$7$c$l$G$+$C$3?M$,$$$C$Q$$(B $B$i$7$$!#$h$+$C$?$i!"GA$$$F$_$F!*(B $B$-$C$H!"=P2q$$$,$"$k$h!#(B http://sv.g-spot.to/docono/ $B"!!~"!!~"!!~"!!~(B Chyoi machi Mail $B$K4X$9$k$40U8+$J$I(B [EMAIL PROTECTED] $B$^$G(B -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
