RE: [PHP] php applications
At 11:49 AM -0400 6/8/09, Daniel Brown wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:48, teddt...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Probably the most well-known method is php-gtk: http://gtk.php.net/ I must be getting too old for this stuff. I'm used to an IDE where you write code, run, and debug it. When you get it where you want and want to create an application, then you compile the code and there's an application -- a stand alone application -- done! But I don't see anything like that there. In fact, if you review their applications link, you'll see that they don't have any applications either. It's all There's not any applications in this category ... Maybe you would like to add one? Well... a Hello world would be nice. I downloaded and installed the MacPorts too, but that leaves me wanting for a simple Hello World example as well, but nothing there either. In both cases they are very verbose about command line stuff, but short on how to use php to create an application. I just don't see it. Maybe my terminology is not correct. My applications stand by themselves and run when clicked -- no command line is needed. To me it looks like another one of those other things that everyone says is great, but I sit here saying Hey, I don't know about you guys, but the Emperor's naked. Cheers, tedd -- Nusphere has something called PhpDock, but it's for Windows desktop only. I use their excellent PhpED IDE and have seen references in PhpED for PhpDock development, exactly as you describe (code-debug-test-encode-deploy all in PhpED - a well-dressed Emperor). Looking at how they do it I'm not too sure why PhpDock is Windows-only. From the Nusphere forum I've seen that Mac users use PhpED fine in wine or vmware, but I don't know if that also works for PhpDock runtime. I haven't tried any PhpDock development. http://www.nusphere.com/products/phpdock.htm Cheers Arno -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
At 2:28 AM +0100 6/10/09, Michael wrote: The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, insane lifespans of 30 seconds. There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may be a hammer, but every problem is not a nail. Use the tools designed for the job. Michael Michael: I've written many different desktop apps that wrap routines from other languages and/or use applications that are just below the surface (for example, a desktop apps that uses an Unix app). If you can do it, it sure beats rewriting everything in one language. Plus, I have also written desktop apps that interface with php scripts to do web stuff -- that's not difficult. So, I don't think it's too much a stretch of the imagination to think there might be a php environment that could create a desktop application to do web work. Beside, this is how languages evolve. There is no job that any tool is designed for. The job is our current perception of the task at hand and that is always changing. Think about it -- why are all languages are looking more and more alike? Why is it that you can jump from versions of BASIC to C, C++, php, JAVA, javascript and others and not find yourself in a completely foreign environment? You think that's by design? Or is there something else going on? Perhaps what's going on it that these languages are expanding and adapting to the task at hand (the job) as perceived by countless programmer working in different environments. Usually, there is one most logical way to solve any problem. We all shoot at the target and it should come to no surprise that our shots are grouped around a comment goal. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:37, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: Beside, this is how languages evolve. There is no job that any tool is designed for. The job is our current perception of the task at hand and that is always changing. That's the point I was trying to get at in the email I wrote last night that no one read. Seems like everyone saw the word police and ran like kids at a beer party. ;-P -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Daniel Brown wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:37, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: Beside, this is how languages evolve. There is no job that any tool is designed for. The job is our current perception of the task at hand and that is always changing. That's the point I was trying to get at in the email I wrote last night that no one read. Seems like everyone saw the word police and ran like kids at a beer party. ;-P Don't you have VB applications to write? :D Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:59, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Don't you have VB applications to write? And this after I just mentioned your name in another thread without throwing up in my mouth. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
At 8:53 AM -0400 6/10/09, Daniel Brown wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:37, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: Beside, this is how languages evolve. There is no job that any tool is designed for. The job is our current perception of the task at hand and that is always changing. That's the point I was trying to get at in the email I wrote last night that no one read. Seems like everyone saw the word police and ran like kids at a beer party. ;-P -- /Daniel P. Brown That's Okay, I just say it better than you. :-) Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
At 9:07 AM -0400 6/10/09, Robert Cummings wrote: Daniel Brown wrote: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:59, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Don't you have VB applications to write? And this after I just mentioned your name in another thread without throwing up in my mouth. You've finally got those gag reflexes under control... call me!! *wink wink* *nudge nudge* Cheers, Rob. Get a room. :-) tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 09:16, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: That's Okay, I just say it better than you. :-) Show-off. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 08:37:23AM -0400, tedd wrote: snip Think about it -- why are all languages are looking more and more alike? Why is it that you can jump from versions of BASIC to C, C++, php, JAVA, javascript and others and not find yourself in a completely foreign environment? You think that's by design? Or is there something else going on? snip I suspect this is because the guys who create a new language learned programming in another language. So when they create a new language, to some extent, they pattern it after what they've learned elsewhere. And generally, there are typical ways that humans think about accomplishing programming tasks, which are reflected in the way that humans design programming languages. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop (while true) scenarios... it's threading support is poor and it's memory handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards web-programming. If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard implementation *shouldnt*. In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.comwrote: Kyle Terry wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. Why not? The technology won't mature if nobody uses it. And since there's a want, there's no reason why it can't. Not too sure how good Programmed desktop applications in PHP would look on a resume. ;) Cheers, Rob.
Re: [PHP] php applications
Depends on how you look at it, I'd take the perspective that that's a non-normal approach to the language and demonstrates a fuller understanding of the language. Same as if you put (and I do) wrote an asynchronous socket server in PHP. Despite the position PHP developers are usually applying for being limited to web development, I take the approach that non-standard usage of the language not only demonstrates a more mature understanding of the language, but also the ability to handle more complex (because who are we kidding, GUI programming is much more complex than web development) programming concepts and the ability to solve non-standard problems which aren't easily able to be googled. On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Kyle Terry k...@kyleterry.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Kyle Terry wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. Why not? The technology won't mature if nobody uses it. And since there's a want, there's no reason why it can't. Not too sure how good Programmed desktop applications in PHP would look on a resume. ;) Cheers, Rob.
Re: [PHP] php applications
Kyle Terry wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.comwrote: Kyle Terry wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. Why not? The technology won't mature if nobody uses it. And since there's a want, there's no reason why it can't. Not too sure how good Programmed desktop applications in PHP would look on a resume. ;) From my POV, better than writing Programmed desktop applications in VB. But that's just my POV :) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Michael wrote: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop (while true) scenarios... Citation? it's threading support is poor and it's memory What does threading support have to do with running something in an infinite loop? What if I don't need threads? handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards web-programming. I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that leverage the codebase already written for the web application. If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard implementation *shouldnt*. Why? In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place. As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial brass ring if you never extend your reach. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 20:42, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: From my POV, better than writing Programmed desktop applications in VB. But that's just my POV :) Did I happen to tell you that's what I've been doing all day, or are you just *that* good at making me miserable --- even when it's not *me* to whom you're speaking? ;-P -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Robert Cummings wrote: Michael wrote: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop (while true) scenarios... Citation? see the history of php development and use it's threading support is poor and it's memory What does threading support have to do with running something in an infinite loop? What if I don't need threads? handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards web-programming. I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that leverage the codebase already written for the web application. i wasnt arguing against cron-scripts, these are 'run-once' sort of things which php handles well. they dont run for minutes let alone hours. If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard implementation *shouldnt*. Why? for the reasons detailed in this post. using web-oriented php as a desktop programming language is a magnitude of dumb perhaps only eclipsed by the smarty programming language In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place. As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial brass ring if you never extend your reach. There are good reasons why php isnt in the sun (ie. used for desktop programming), as i've listed. If you'd care to learn a few other languages the reasons would be immediately obvious, python can be learnt in a few days - try it. Cheers, Rob. The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, insane lifespans of 30 seconds. There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may be a hammer, but every problem is not a nail. Use the tools designed for the job. Michael -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
While the technology is pretty immature at the moment, due to its under-use no doubt, saying that PHP is never the tool for a desktop application is pretty inane. While the primary developmental lifecycle is geared towards web development (who's arguing that?), there's nothing really pervasive preventing people from using it for desktop apps. Given the recent focus towards closing memory leaks internally and the control of the (new, iirc) garbage collector, I wouldn't say it's a bad idea, resource speaking, to write in PHP (certainly no worse than Java). There's sound support, GTK support, CUPS support, Windows COM / printing support, so the support for the APIs is certainly there (and where it's not, there's ways around it, like with the java extension). Just because you have a hammer that's only been used for nailing particle board doesn't mean it's not suited for hammering into plywood! The only issue I see with PHP is the relative difficulty of making stand-alone applications that are bundled with a statically compiled PHP executable, but that shouldn't be too hard to overcome, with a little bit of time and creativity. On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Michael mich...@mjburgess.co.uk wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: Michael wrote: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop (while true) scenarios... Citation? see the history of php development and use it's threading support is poor and it's memory What does threading support have to do with running something in an infinite loop? What if I don't need threads? handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards web-programming. I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that leverage the codebase already written for the web application. i wasnt arguing against cron-scripts, these are 'run-once' sort of things which php handles well. they dont run for minutes let alone hours. If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard implementation *shouldnt*. Why? for the reasons detailed in this post. using web-oriented php as a desktop programming language is a magnitude of dumb perhaps only eclipsed by the smarty programming language In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place. As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial brass ring if you never extend your reach. There are good reasons why php isnt in the sun (ie. used for desktop programming), as i've listed. If you'd care to learn a few other languages the reasons would be immediately obvious, python can be learnt in a few days - try it. Cheers, Rob. The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, insane lifespans of 30 seconds. There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may be a hammer, but every problem is not a nail. Use the tools designed for the job. Michael -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
This was about half of my point, writing these applications in PHP is difficult, it is a task to be overcome. PHP requires cajoling into being useful. Your solution to use the Java extension is peculiarly ironic - yes: Use Java! If the only language you know is PHP i'm sure it looks very capable, and i was, several years ago, in this position (wanting to write various desktop apps in it) the wise and experienced freenode gurus then told me to learn the right tools. Despite how it may look from the myopia of primarily PHP development, PHP isnt a desktop-capable language. It would take a great deal of time and effort to do in PHP what would take a handful of lines in python, due to the extensive library support. Many PHP programmers goes thru' the phase of wanting to write 'http servers', 'irc clients', etc. in PHP. It would be irresponsible to not point them in the direction of more capable languages, when they are in fact, greatly more capable. Eddie Drapkin wrote: While the technology is pretty immature at the moment, due to its under-use no doubt, saying that PHP is never the tool for a desktop application is pretty inane. While the primary developmental lifecycle is geared towards web development (who's arguing that?), there's nothing really pervasive preventing people from using it for desktop apps. Given the recent focus towards closing memory leaks internally and the control of the (new, iirc) garbage collector, I wouldn't say it's a bad idea, resource speaking, to write in PHP (certainly no worse than Java). There's sound support, GTK support, CUPS support, Windows COM / printing support, so the support for the APIs is certainly there (and where it's not, there's ways around it, like with the java extension). Just because you have a hammer that's only been used for nailing particle board doesn't mean it's not suited for hammering into plywood! The only issue I see with PHP is the relative difficulty of making stand-alone applications that are bundled with a statically compiled PHP executable, but that shouldn't be too hard to overcome, with a little bit of time and creativity. On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Michael mich...@mjburgess.co.uk wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: Michael wrote: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop (while true) scenarios... Citation? see the history of php development and use it's threading support is poor and it's memory What does threading support have to do with running something in an infinite loop? What if I don't need threads? handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards web-programming. I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that leverage the codebase already written for the web application. i wasnt arguing against cron-scripts, these are 'run-once' sort of things which php handles well. they dont run for minutes let alone hours. If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard implementation *shouldnt*. Why? for the reasons detailed in this post. using web-oriented php as a desktop programming language is a magnitude of dumb perhaps only eclipsed by the smarty programming language In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place. As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial brass ring if you never extend your reach. There are good reasons why php isnt in the sun (ie. used for desktop programming), as i've listed. If you'd care to learn a few other languages the reasons would be immediately obvious, python can be learnt in a few days - try it. Cheers, Rob. The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, insane lifespans of 30 seconds. There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may be a hammer, but every problem is not a nail. Use the tools designed for the job. Michael -- PHP General Mailing List
Re: [PHP] php applications
Hate to police threads here, but please don't top-post. On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 21:48, Michaelmich...@mjburgess.co.uk wrote: This was about half of my point, writing these applications in PHP is difficult, it is a task to be overcome. PHP requires cajoling into being useful. Your solution to use the Java extension is peculiarly ironic - yes: Use Java! As someone who programs in several languages (to a degree of competence and skill I shall leave judged by those who receive the end-result of my work) and who is directly-involved in the PHP Project, I feel more than qualified to disagree with you on this. Coincidentally, I do. For once my qualifications and opinion lie in the same place (and not just because my wife told me that they belong there). If the only language you know is PHP i'm sure it looks very capable, and i was, several years ago, in this position (wanting to write various desktop apps in it) the wise and experienced freenode gurus then told me to learn the right tools. Despite how it may look from the myopia of primarily PHP development, PHP isnt a desktop-capable language. It would take a great deal of time and effort to do in PHP what would take a handful of lines in python, due to the extensive library support. This is not only incorrect, but exhibits deeper issues. Python seems more capable because you are importing numerous modules, nodes, and extensions, in turn inheriting and extending others, building a full framework. The same can - and is - done in PHP. Perhaps not in the stock distribution, but in more than a few third-party offerings. And this doesn't even touch into the PEAR and PECL stuff, nor the fact that Python is more than one-and-a-half times as old as modern PHP. Many PHP programmers goes thru' the phase of wanting to write 'http servers', 'irc clients', etc. in PHP. It would be irresponsible to not point them in the direction of more capable languages, when they are in fact, greatly more capable. is what you would say if you hoped beyond hope that technology would stagnate. All of this said, believe it or not, I do agree with the statement that there are other languages better-suited to desktop programming (at this time), just not for the points so far that you've argued. We're on the same side, just not the same end. ;-P -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Daniel Brown wrote: Hate to police threads here, but please don't top-post. Apologies, my client was not configured properly. Hopefully it is threading now, if not please notify me. Michael -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Michael wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: Michael wrote: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop (while true) scenarios... Citation? see the history of php development and use Please explain the purpose of the php-cli binary? it's threading support is poor and it's memory What does threading support have to do with running something in an infinite loop? What if I don't need threads? handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards web-programming. I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that leverage the codebase already written for the web application. i wasnt arguing against cron-scripts, these are 'run-once' sort of things which php handles well. they dont run for minutes let alone hours. I have daemons in PHP that have been running for months without stop. They are using the infinite-loop mechanism you purport to be not designed for continuous long-term use. I have an mplayer wrapper script that has been running for the past 3 months non-stop... it's purpose is to shuffle my kids shows, reload a play list when it changes, allow queueing of shows, handle random selection of shows based on tags and weighting, remember what episode in a series was last played and where the timestamp currently rests... all this without being shut down. If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard implementation *shouldnt*. Why? for the reasons detailed in this post. using web-oriented php as a desktop programming language is a magnitude of dumb perhaps only eclipsed by the smarty programming language Narrow mindedness won't earn you any brownie points from me. In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place. There's always other languages... there's always another language better at doing something... so what? There was Perl before PHP, Perl was undoubtedly better than PHP for web applications at one point... yet I would argue that has changed... why? Because the naysayers were ignored. As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial brass ring if you never extend your reach. There are good reasons why php isnt in the sun (ie. used for desktop programming), as i've listed. If you'd care to learn a few other languages the reasons would be immediately obvious, python can be learnt in a few days - try it. Cheers, Rob. The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, insane lifespans of 30 seconds. Please point me to this standard-- I would like to have a gander at it. There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may be a hammer, but every problem is not a nail. Languages were designed to be programmed, what they are programmed to do is entirely up to the programmer. Use the tools designed for the job. Then how would we find new uses for the tools? Just because there's only one known use for a tool, doesn't exclude it for consideration for new uses. There's always serendipity too. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Michael wrote: This was about half of my point, writing these applications in PHP is difficult, it is a task to be overcome. PHP requires cajoling into being useful. Your solution to use the Java extension is peculiarly ironic - yes: Use Java! If the only language you know is PHP i'm sure it looks very capable, and i was, several years ago, in this position (wanting to write various desktop apps in it) the wise and experienced freenode gurus then told me to learn the right tools. Despite how it may look from the myopia of primarily PHP development, PHP isnt a desktop-capable language. It would take a great deal of time and effort to do in PHP what would take a handful of lines in python, due to the extensive library support. Many PHP programmers goes thru' the phase of wanting to write 'http servers', 'irc clients', etc. in PHP. It would be irresponsible to not point them in the direction of more capable languages, when they are in fact, greatly more capable. I program in several languages, but I do enjoy the speed in which I can cobble together something functional in PHP with minimal effort. You underestimate the glue power of PHP. I don't need to program something like mplayer in PHP, it is sufficient that I can control it and expand upon it via PHP. PHP is quite competent at filling many of the roles formerly handled by Perl. Yes there are advantages to other languages, certainly other languages can be better choices for any particular application, but outright exclusion of PHP just to fulfill your fantasy of the right tool for the job is just silly. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Languages were designed to be programmed, what they are programmed to do is entirely up to the programmer. Perhaps there is no hope then. This is so distant from the actual case it does not require more than pointing out. If you want to write demons in php fine, i wince at the thought. The question isnt whether a PHP programmer thinks PHP is the right tool for the job, unanimously the answer will be 'yes' because of the myopia of the position. It is whether people with experience on a number of different platform, using a number of different languages think it is... i've yet to hear *anyone* in this position advocate PHP. Michael -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Michael wrote: Languages were designed to be programmed, what they are programmed to do is entirely up to the programmer. Perhaps there is no hope then. This is so distant from the actual case it does not require more than pointing out. If you want to write demons in php fine, i wince at the thought. Demons are fantastical creatures. The word you're erroneously trying to repeat is daemon. The question isnt whether a PHP programmer thinks PHP is the right tool for the job, unanimously the answer will be 'yes' because of the myopia of the position. It is whether people with experience on a number of different platform, using a number of different languages think it is... i've yet to hear *anyone* in this position advocate PHP. I don't have myopia, I've already said many times that there can certainly be better ways to do something, there can be more established choices, but just because there are, doesn't preclude the use of a less worthy tool with the possible side effect that the less worthy tool undergoes some kind of evolution such that it becomes a better choice in the future. There was a time when C was a less worthy choice, there was a time when Java was a less worthy choice, there was a time when you probably had a more open mind. The fact remains that things change, and usually change is driven by some impetus. That impetus may indeed be due to the selected environment having been found lacking. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Robert Cummings wrote: Michael wrote: Languages were designed to be programmed, what they are programmed to do is entirely up to the programmer. Perhaps there is no hope then. This is so distant from the actual case it does not require more than pointing out. If you want to write demons in php fine, i wince at the thought. Demons are fantastical creatures. The word you're erroneously trying to repeat is daemon. You'll find both spellings refer to the same thing. The question isnt whether a PHP programmer thinks PHP is the right tool for the job, unanimously the answer will be 'yes' because of the myopia of the position. It is whether people with experience on a number of different platform, using a number of different languages think it is... i've yet to hear *anyone* in this position advocate PHP. I don't have myopia, I've already said many times that there can certainly be better ways to do something, there can be more established choices, but just because there are, doesn't preclude the use of a less worthy tool with the possible side effect that the less worthy tool undergoes some kind of evolution such that it becomes a better choice in the future. You're advocating using a hammer as a screwdriver to spur the invention of the screwdriver? We already have the screwdriver, it's called python. If you need a drill there's Java, etc. There was a time when C was a less worthy choice, there was a time when Java was a less worthy choice, there was a time when you probably had a more open mind. The fact remains that things change, and usually change is driven by some impetus. That impetus may indeed be due to the selected environment having been found lacking. Yes, certainly. This is why we have phc, phalanger, pint, mod_php, PHP4Mono, etc. You'll also notice youre talking about a progression of languages... not a progression within a language. People arent writing operating systems in python precisely because that would be an absurd misuse of a tool, nor are they writing RDMBs in PHP. There are good reasons for this. Michael -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Michael wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: Michael wrote: Languages were designed to be programmed, what they are programmed to do is entirely up to the programmer. Perhaps there is no hope then. This is so distant from the actual case it does not require more than pointing out. If you want to write demons in php fine, i wince at the thought. Demons are fantastical creatures. The word you're erroneously trying to repeat is daemon. You'll find both spellings refer to the same thing. Doh. The question isnt whether a PHP programmer thinks PHP is the right tool for the job, unanimously the answer will be 'yes' because of the myopia of the position. It is whether people with experience on a number of different platform, using a number of different languages think it is... i've yet to hear *anyone* in this position advocate PHP. I don't have myopia, I've already said many times that there can certainly be better ways to do something, there can be more established choices, but just because there are, doesn't preclude the use of a less worthy tool with the possible side effect that the less worthy tool undergoes some kind of evolution such that it becomes a better choice in the future. You're advocating using a hammer as a screwdriver to spur the invention of the screwdriver? We already have the screwdriver, it's called python. If you need a drill there's Java, etc. No, I'm advocation the invention of the Robertson screwdriver despite the existence of the Philips screwdriver! There was a time when C was a less worthy choice, there was a time when Java was a less worthy choice, there was a time when you probably had a more open mind. The fact remains that things change, and usually change is driven by some impetus. That impetus may indeed be due to the selected environment having been found lacking. Yes, certainly. This is why we have phc, phalanger, pint, mod_php, PHP4Mono, etc. I'm not sure what point you were making with the above list. You'll also notice youre talking about a progression of languages... not a progression within a language. People arent writing operating systems in python precisely because that would be an absurd misuse of a tool, nor are they writing RDMBs in PHP. There are good reasons for this. No, I'm specifically talking about a progression WITHIN a language. When C first came out there were likely almost no libraries available and many many ASM libraries. That changed over time. You already made a point about libraries being a reasonable criteria for language selection. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 02:48:23AM +0100, Michael wrote: This was about half of my point, writing these applications in PHP is difficult, it is a task to be overcome. PHP requires cajoling into being useful. Your solution to use the Java extension is peculiarly ironic - yes: Use Java! If the only language you know is PHP i'm sure it looks very capable, and i was, several years ago, in this position (wanting to write various desktop apps in it) the wise and experienced freenode gurus then told me to learn the right tools. Despite how it may look from the myopia of primarily PHP development, PHP isnt a desktop-capable language. It would take a great deal of time and effort to do in PHP what would take a handful of lines in python, due to the extensive library support. Not. PHP is based very closely on C. Its syntax and native function calls mirror C almost completely. Considering the breadth of applications written for the desktop in C, I think your argument is weak. Especially when you consider that, unlike C, we don't have to predefine variables and PHP does its own memory management and housecleaning, unlike C. Moreover, there are tons of add-on extensions for PHP which allow it to do some very unusual things. Same is true for C (but in C, they're libraries). I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Normally I would use Python or Bash for anything shell, and some GUI apps. But I haven't heard a really compelling reason yet for *not* using PHP. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM, teddt...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM, teddt...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php http://www.nabble.com/running-php-gtk2-on-mac-td15354952.html is an aticle on how to use PHP GTK on the mac -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Hi, I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Don't know about Mac specifically, but with *nix in general it can be used to create command line stuff, and also GUI based apps using the Gtk extension. -- Richard Heyes HTML5 graphing: RGraph (www.rgraph.net - updated 6th June) PHP mail: RMail (www.phpguru.org/rmail) PHP datagrid: RGrid (www.phpguru.org/rgrid) PHP Template: RTemplate (www.phpguru.org/rtemplate) PHP SMTP: http://www.phpguru.org/smtp -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:51, Bastien Koertphps...@gmail.com wrote: -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat Hey, Bastien the other other white meat got your tongue. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:48, teddt...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Probably the most well-known method is php-gtk: http://gtk.php.net/ -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:53, Richard Heyesrich...@php.net wrote: Hi, I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Don't know about Mac specifically, but with *nix in general it can be used to create command line stuff, and also GUI based apps using the Gtk extension. Conversely, for other folks who may view this thread now or in the future, if you're looking for Windows-specific things, check into WinBinder[1]. And for a quick install and some example projects for Windows, *nix, and Mac, check out gnope[2]. ^1: http://winbinder.org/ ^2: http://gnope.org/ -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application.
Re: [PHP] php applications
Kyle Terry wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. Why not? The technology won't mature if nobody uses it. And since there's a want, there's no reason why it can't. Cheers, Rob. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Real men use perl ;) On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Kyle Terry k...@kyleterry.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:48 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application.
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:33, Matty Sarromsa...@gmail.com wrote: Real men use perl ;) 's/Real men/Masochists' -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Hi, Real men use perl ;) 's/Real men/Masochists' There's always VB... -- Richard Heyes HTML5 graphing: RGraph (www.rgraph.net - updated 6th June) PHP mail: RMail (www.phpguru.org/rmail) PHP datagrid: RGrid (www.phpguru.org/rgrid) PHP Template: RTemplate (www.phpguru.org/rtemplate) PHP SMTP: http://www.phpguru.org/smtp -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Eric Butera wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Matty Sarro wrote: Real men use perl ;) When I was younger my dad told me real men drink their coffee black... I tried it for a month and then I told him real men choose their own path in life. Cheers, Rob. Yeah well, he was still right. What? All I hear coming from you are sheep noises *b baa baa*. ;) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Eric Butera wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Matty Sarro wrote: Real men use perl ;) When I was younger my dad told me real men drink their coffee black... I tried it for a month and then I told him real men choose their own path in life. Cheers, Rob. Yeah well, he was still right. What? All I hear coming from you are sheep noises *b baa baa*. ;) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php time for the velcro gloves, Rob? -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On 6/8/09 12:30 PM, Kyle Terry k...@kyleterry.com wrote: I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. if there were a cocoa interface as there is for python or ruby, i'd probably use it. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Bastien Koert wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Eric Butera wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Robert Cummingsrob...@interjinn.com wrote: Matty Sarro wrote: Real men use perl ;) When I was younger my dad told me real men drink their coffee black... I tried it for a month and then I told him real men choose their own path in life. Cheers, Rob. Yeah well, he was still right. What? All I hear coming from you are sheep noises *b baa baa*. ;) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php time for the velcro gloves, Rob? Nah, you go ahead without me. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
tedd wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? Dunno about Macs, but I use PHP for command line scripting all the time. In fact, any script with a relation to a website with PHP I will also write in PHP. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.2°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
At 11:49 AM -0400 6/8/09, Daniel Brown wrote: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:48, teddt...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: I've heard that php can be used for more than web programming, but I am not aware of specifically how that can be done. So, let me ask directly -- can php be used to create a Mac Application? If so, how? Probably the most well-known method is php-gtk: http://gtk.php.net/ I must be getting too old for this stuff. I'm used to an IDE where you write code, run, and debug it. When you get it where you want and want to create an application, then you compile the code and there's an application -- a stand alone application -- done! But I don't see anything like that there. In fact, if you review their applications link, you'll see that they don't have any applications either. It's all There's not any applications in this category ... Maybe you would like to add one? Well... a Hello world would be nice. I downloaded and installed the MacPorts too, but that leaves me wanting for a simple Hello World example as well, but nothing there either. In both cases they are very verbose about command line stuff, but short on how to use php to create an application. I just don't see it. Maybe my terminology is not correct. My applications stand by themselves and run when clicked -- no command line is needed. To me it looks like another one of those other things that everyone says is great, but I sit here saying Hey, I don't know about you guys, but the Emperor's naked. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
I'm used to an IDE where you write code, run, and debug it. When you get it where you want and want to create an application, then you compile the code and there's an application -- a stand alone application -- done! You may be looking for glade http://glade.gnome.org/ It's in MacPorts as glade and glade3 port search whatever like port search glade man port and check out variants I don't recall if Glade has debugging. Remember PHP is a scripting language. You don't compile. But I have seen something that compiles PHP to a stand alone app google says this today for compile php stand alone http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/21235 In both cases they are very verbose about command line stuff, but short on how to use php to create an application. I just don't see it. Maybe my terminology is not correct. My applications stand by themselves and run when clicked -- no command line is needed. http://glade.gnome.org/manual/index.html It's been a while since I toyed with this. Google glade tutorial http://www.micahcarrick.com/12-24-2007/gtk-glade-tutorial-part-1.html I would think there is a way to create a YourApp.app bundle for Mac and have it run when clicked. I just saw something about creating your own YourApp.app bundle the other day. It was not about PHP, but I'm sure it could be done. It was something to do with a tool that...ahh it was about the open source iPhone tool chain. It did not create a TheApp.app bundle but showed how to do so manually. I would think that you would do something with #!/usr/bin/php -q More like #!/opt/local/bin/php for MacPorts and make some part of the bundle point to the executable PHP script. Not as smooth as Xcode and Interface Builder eh? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Not as smooth as Xcode and Interface Builder eh?
I had interesting results with my first custom MyApp.app bundle.
From
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/CoreFOundation/Conceptual/CFBundles/Concepts/BundleAnatomy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001119-104977-TPXREF4
I made a new folder named Test and made a sub directory Contents
then another sub to that MacOS then put a PHP script with no
extension named test containing code from
http://gtk.php.net/manual/en/tutorials.helloworld.php to which I added
the top line #!/opt/local/bin/php -q
like so:
#!/opt/local/bin/php -q
?php
if (!class_exists('gtk')) {
die(Please load the php-gtk2 module in your php.ini\r\n);
}
$wnd = new GtkWindow();
$wnd-set_title('Hello world');
$wnd-connect_simple('destroy', array('gtk', 'main_quit'));
$lblHello = new GtkLabel(Just wanted to say\r\n'Hello world!');
$wnd-add($lblHello);
$wnd-show_all();
Gtk::main();
?
Rename Test folder to Test.app
It should take on the default App icon.
Don't click on it until you read the WARNING below so you can show
Desktop (should not matter here yet though). If you try it now, it
may tell you that you need gtk installed Please load the php-gtk2
module in your php.ini.
From MacPorts I did:
sudo port install php5-gtk
I was surprised that it installed apache, but I didn't do any post
install apache step (I'll just wipe /opt/local anyway). I did however
do
sudo cp /opt/local/etc/php.ini-dist /opt/local/etc/php.ini
in response to this line during the port build
* copy /opt/local/etc/php.ini-dist to /opt/local/etc/php.ini
I then did a
sudo vi /opt/local/etc/php.ini
Changed
;extension_dir = ./
extension_dir = /opt/local//lib/php/extensions/no-debug-non-zts-20060613/
and added
extension=php_gtk2.so
at the end, although it should probably be in the extension area.
WARNING:
I have my Expose set to show the desktop if I move my mouse to a
corner. (Active Screen Corners)
Without that, I would have been stuck after a launch.
I launched Test but it kicked in X11, then showed the Hello World GTK
window. I closed the window and was left with a blank X11 screen
(WITH NO DOCK !!!). Now I recovered by moving my mouse to the active
screen corner to show the Desktop (WHICH HAD MY HARDDRIVE icon there.
When I opened my Hard Drive icon Macintosh HD, the X11 app icon
appeared along with the Dock.) Then I Quit X11 from the Dock and was
back to normal.
Anyway, you can do any post install stuff if you really want to setup
properly or do port uninstall and friends, but there is also this:
http://guide.macports.org/#installing.macports.uninstalling
But after the WWDC today, I see it's high time to get into iPhone development.
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Re: [PHP] php applications
On Monday 08 June 2009 12:34:40 pm Robert Cummings wrote: Matty Sarro wrote: Real men use perl ;) When I was younger my dad told me real men drink their coffee black... I tried it for a month and then I told him real men choose their own path in life. Cheers, Rob. Mind if I use that quote elsewhere (credited if you prefer)? -- Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On 6/8/09 4:26 PM, Dee Ayy dee@gmail.com wrote: Not as smooth as Xcode and Interface Builder eh? no -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
Larry Garfield wrote: On Monday 08 June 2009 12:34:40 pm Robert Cummings wrote: Matty Sarro wrote: Real men use perl ;) When I was younger my dad told me real men drink their coffee black... I tried it for a month and then I told him real men choose their own path in life. Cheers, Rob. Mind if I use that quote elsewhere (credited if you prefer)? Go ahead... I don't need credit for it unless you want to add it :) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php applications
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote: snip I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another language would be better for this. Such as Python. PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use it for a production application. I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish. Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications? Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
On Tue, May 17, 2005 1:50 pm, Greg Donald said: On 5/17/05, Brent Baisley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Did you have a link for this 'compiler' ? All I see in the site menu is a link to the encoder. Sorry if I'm just not seeing it. He probably meant the encoder. Zend has a lot of products, though, and there maybe might be one designed just to secure your PHP source... I kinda lost track lately, with all the options out there. Err, anyway, I just really wanted to say that virtually every Zend product has been so routinely mis-represented by what it does that the amount of mis-information out there is probably larger than the amount of correct info. Read Zend's website product descriptions first, and ignore forum/mailing list comments until you're clear on what the product does, and doesn't do. That will help you separate the patent falsehoods from useful info, and winnow down your reading by a factor of 3. -- Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
Chris Shiflett wrote: Danny Brow wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Any free ones? http://pecl.php.net/package/APC APC won't work for me, segmentation faults all around =( suprisingly this doesn't occur the first time I load a page, only the second time ! grt, Evert -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
Evert | Rooftop wrote: Chris Shiflett wrote: Danny Brow wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Any free ones? http://pecl.php.net/package/APC APC won't work for me, segmentation faults all around =( suprisingly this doesn't occur the first time I load a page, only the second time ! grt, Evert I can't say for sure, but I'm betting that APC doesn't support the version of PHP that you are trying to use. Specifically, I don't think it supports PHP5+ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
Evert | Rooftop wrote: Chris Shiflett wrote: Danny Brow wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Any free ones? http://pecl.php.net/package/APC APC won't work for me, segmentation faults all around =( suprisingly this doesn't occur the first time I load a page, only the second time ! If the current CVS version does this, please send me a backtrace. This code works on thousands of servers just fine. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
I can't say for sure, but I'm betting that APC doesn't support the version of PHP that you are trying to use. Specifically, I don't think it supports PHP5+ Correct, APC is currently PHP4 only. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. On May 17, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Brian Dunning wrote: Hi all - My background is mostly with Lasso. One cool feature is the ability to make LassoApps - single file applications that are secure and can be sold distributed without providing access to the source. Does PHP offer any such capability? - Brian -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Brent Baisley Systems Architect Landover Associates, Inc. Search Advisory Services for Advanced Technology Environments p: 212.759.6400/800.759.0577 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
On Tue, May 17, 2005 7:27 am, Brian Dunning said: My background is mostly with Lasso. One cool feature is the ability to make LassoApps - single file applications that are secure and can be sold distributed without providing access to the source. Does PHP offer any such capability? No. Third-party hacks to do things kinda sorta like what you describe can be acquired for varying amounts of money. Zend has one, I think, and road[mumble] and there are several others. Google for PHP compiler and you should find most of them. -- Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
On 5/17/05, Brent Baisley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Did you have a link for this 'compiler' ? All I see in the site menu is a link to the encoder. Sorry if I'm just not seeing it. -- Greg Donald Zend Certified Engineer http://destiney.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 15:34 -0400, Brent Baisley wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Any free ones? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Applications?
Danny Brow wrote: Zend sells a compiler to speed up your PHP code. Since it's compiled, it also does not contain the source code in readable form. You should visit the Zend website. Any free ones? http://pecl.php.net/package/APC -- Chris Shiflett Brain Bulb, The PHP Consultancy http://brainbulb.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
