Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 12:13 -0400, tedd wrote: > At 8:27 AM -0400 4/21/10, David McGlone wrote: > >I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't > >pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to > >the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people > >are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. > > > >It just doesn't make sense to me, why be on the mailing list if it > >hinders having a group discussion without having to jump through > >hurdles. It also defeats the purpose of being on a group list if > >replying sends the reply to the OP. > > > >Every message sent to this list, simply hitting reply should send back > >to this list and not the OP. > >-- > >Blessings, > >David M. > > David: > > Whenever I want to reply to the OP privately, I use their email address. > > Whenever I want to reply to all, I use "PHP " > > I do NOT (usually) use any quick "Reply" or "Reply to All" options in > my email program that sends stuff to everyone. Instead I think about > what I am sending and consider if anyone wants to receive my email. > Sure it's another step, but no more troublesome than trimming my > email to the point or other such considerations to make my replies > "on topic" and more readable. > > I'm sorry that you feel that doing so is *so tedious* that you are > going to "give up", but consider the effort that is put forth by > those answering you you should reconsider how much effort you are > willing spend to make this list work. Sometimes things cannot be as > simple as "Click". Hi Ted, thanks for the words of encouragement. The thread got a little big pretty quick so you may have missed a previous post from me. here it is: "I'm the type of person that figures out how and why and then weighs my options. Figuring out how to reply properly to this list was the first step, now the next step is figuring out if I can deal with it or not. I've decided to stay for a couple reasons, for one, everybody on this list didn't once get mean or hateful during this whole discussion. That flabbergasted me, because on a lot of lists I am on, quite a few people on those lists would have instantly jumped down my throat. Secondly, Everyone on this list that I have seen ask questions and give advise are darn good programmers, so in order to be in the company of people like this, then changing my habits shouldn't be hard. The reason for the subject change was because I feared I was going to start a flame war, so I was going to back down and just forget I mentioned it." I have learned to use the "reply to list" option. Something I never knew existed. Even though I prefer it the other way around, where hitting "reply" does the job, I am willing to compromise just like many others on the list. :-) -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
David McGlone wrote: > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 17:07 +0200, Per Jessen wrote: >> David McGlone wrote: >> >> > Also, I do not want this discussion to turn into a flame war or >> > anything of such. I am simply just trying to have a discussion and >> > learn why and how there is different behavior here, but not >> > anywhere else. >> >> David, the PHP list behaves like hundreds or thousands of others in >> this >> respect. Of course there are also lists that work the other way, but >> the PHP list is far from alone. > > It could be just me, but it seems to me this behavior is mostly PHP > list specific. Some examples of other lists that behave the same: ntp-general linux-kernel spamassassin-general rrdtool-users opensuse-* nasm-users isdn4linux asterisk-users postfix-users dovecot-general -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.5°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
At 8:27 AM -0400 4/21/10, David McGlone wrote: I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. It just doesn't make sense to me, why be on the mailing list if it hinders having a group discussion without having to jump through hurdles. It also defeats the purpose of being on a group list if replying sends the reply to the OP. Every message sent to this list, simply hitting reply should send back to this list and not the OP. -- Blessings, David M. David: Whenever I want to reply to the OP privately, I use their email address. Whenever I want to reply to all, I use "PHP " I do NOT (usually) use any quick "Reply" or "Reply to All" options in my email program that sends stuff to everyone. Instead I think about what I am sending and consider if anyone wants to receive my email. Sure it's another step, but no more troublesome than trimming my email to the point or other such considerations to make my replies "on topic" and more readable. I'm sorry that you feel that doing so is *so tedious* that you are going to "give up", but consider the effort that is put forth by those answering you you should reconsider how much effort you are willing spend to make this list work. Sometimes things cannot be as simple as "Click". Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 17:07 +0200, Per Jessen wrote: > David McGlone wrote: > > > Also, I do not want this discussion to turn into a flame war or > > anything of such. I am simply just trying to have a discussion and > > learn why and how there is different behavior here, but not anywhere > > else. > > David, the PHP list behaves like hundreds or thousands of others in this > respect. Of course there are also lists that work the other way, but > the PHP list is far from alone. It could be just me, but it seems to me this behavior is mostly PHP list specific. The only other php list I am on is php-db. It doesn't have this behavior so I guess I'm just not experienced enough to know otherwise. -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
David McGlone wrote: > Also, I do not want this discussion to turn into a flame war or > anything of such. I am simply just trying to have a discussion and > learn why and how there is different behavior here, but not anywhere > else. David, the PHP list behaves like hundreds or thousands of others in this respect. Of course there are also lists that work the other way, but the PHP list is far from alone. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.0°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
> -Original Message- > From: daniel.egeb...@gmail.com [mailto:daniel.egeb...@gmail.com] On > Behalf Of Daniel Egeberg > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 7:40 AM > To: Tommy Pham > Cc: php-general@lists.php.net > Subject: Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up) > I'm using gmail's label which isn't the same as 'move to' filter. I'm pretty sure that I didn't receive duplicate. So it might that gmail's server has some detection method in place. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:20, David McGlone wrote: > > I just received 3 copies of this message. One went to my PHP folder and > 2 went to my Inbox. It was sent multiple times. Probably an intentional demonstration of irony. ;-P -- daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ Looking for hosting or dedicated servers? Ask me how we can fit your budget! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 16:32, Tommy Pham wrote: > I'm sure that the reason why the this list and a few others are setup this > way so that if anyone want to reply just to the OP can do so without having > to figure out or remembering the e-mail address of the sender. Yes, plus many of the people who send to lists such as php-webmaster@ generally do not actually subscribe. Sending a reply privately to someone can also come in handy if you wish to comment privately on a commit. Logs/diffs are sent to mailing lists and the From header will always contain usern...@php.net. -- Daniel Egeberg -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 16:12, Hans Åhlin wrote: > 2010/4/21 David McGlone : >> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: >>> On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: >>> > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by >>> > multiple e-mail lists? >>> > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of >>> > users just to satisfy a couple of few. >>> >>> David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty >>> sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the >>> reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one >>> needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to >>> the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam >>> people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the >>> OP AND the list). >> >> Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, >> GB, etc. >> >> It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get >> 2 of the exact messages. >> > > Strange I only got one, but it ma be a mail server filter I'll have to say that I've never received duplicate messages on any of the nine PHP.net mailing lists I'm subscribed to either. -- Daniel Egeberg -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On 21 April 2010 15:41, Dan Joseph wrote: > When you hit reply all, just take out all the other addresses and leave the > list one in there. The list was setup like this years ago on purpose, and > they've stated in the past they don't want to change it.. > > -- > -Dan Joseph > > I'd like to refrain from actually passing judgement on this issue--since I use reply-all by default I could live with both of these settings--but I'm still curious as to why the list is set up the way it is. What is the advantage of sending to the OP by default rather than the list? Michiel
RE: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
I'm sure that the reason why the this list and a few others are setup this way so that if anyone want to reply just to the OP can do so without having to figure out or remembering the e-mail address of the sender. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 16:12 +0200, Hans Åhlin wrote: > 2010/4/21 David McGlone : > > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: > >> On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: > >> > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by > >> > multiple e-mail lists? > >> > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of > >> > users just to satisfy a couple of few. > >> > >> David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty > >> sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the > >> reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one > >> needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to > >> the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam > >> people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the > >> OP AND the list). > > > > Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, > > GB, etc. > > > > It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get > > 2 of the exact messages. > > > > Strange I only got one, but it ma be a mail server filter I just received 3 copies of this message. One went to my PHP folder and 2 went to my Inbox. -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On 21 April 2010 14:56, Ashley Sheridan wrote: > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 08:56 -0400, David McGlone wrote: > >> On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:42 +0200, Daniel Egeberg wrote: >> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 14:27, David McGlone wrote: >> > > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't >> > > pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to >> > > the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people >> > > are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. >> > >> > Then get a better email client if yours doesn't support "reply to all" >> > or "reply to group". It's hardly the mailing list's fault that your >> > client doesn't support that. >> >> My email client does support "reply to all", but it's IMHO >> inconsiderate. >> >> Think about people that have to pay for every Mb they download. "reply >> to all" causes these people to have to pay for duplicates. >> >> Now if somebody on this list was paying for their downloads, then you >> and I am costing them money by using "reply to all" and now there are 2 >> duplicate messages for them the download. >> >> How would you feel if this was you? >> >> -- >> Blessings, >> David M. >> >> > > > Did you read the link that David Robley sent on the original thread you > made? > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > > What you're proposing would cause a lot of problems for the sake of a > few people. And I hardly think that a few emails are going to cause a > bandwidth issue for anybody. If bandwidth was such an issue, they'd be > using an email client that only downloaded the email headers first, and > from there you could easily discern the duplicate messages. Except it wouldn't cause a lot of problems, now would it? As you've heard from quite a few others, many mailing lists work using the 'reply-to' ... and have happy users. Most of the points in the doc you posted a link to are viewpoints from someone that's used to one thing and hates the idea of things changing - whether or not it makes life easier (the "It makes things break" for instance ... calling replying to the list instead of the OP a "break" is rather farfetched unless you've stared at something you hate for so long you've become blinded byt it. Then there's the "Freedom of choice": well, where's my freedom of choice? I can't use 'reply' as I want to, so it's effectively reduced *my* freedom). Quick guess is by now, the majority of people clicking "reply" *mean* to reply to the list but in effect reply to the OP. Using "reply-to" would help these people. Anyone using "reply-all" would see no difference. So when you're advocating that many subscribers should ditch their email client and install Evolution instead of having *one* email list have it's settings changed a bit ... I start to wonder if you've considered things from both sides. Regards Peter -- WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
2010/4/21 David McGlone : > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: >> On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: >> > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by >> > multiple e-mail lists? >> > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of >> > users just to satisfy a couple of few. >> >> David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty >> sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the >> reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one >> needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to >> the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam >> people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the >> OP AND the list). > > Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, > GB, etc. > > It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get > 2 of the exact messages. > Strange I only got one, but it ma be a mail server filter > -- > Blessings, > David M. > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
2010/4/21 David McGlone : > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: >> On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: >> > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by >> > multiple e-mail lists? >> > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of >> > users just to satisfy a couple of few. >> >> David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty >> sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the >> reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one >> needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to >> the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam >> people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the >> OP AND the list). > > Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, > GB, etc. > > It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get > 2 of the exact messages. > Strange I only got one, but it ma be a mail server filter > -- > Blessings, > David M. > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 09:41 -0400, Dan Joseph wrote: > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:33 AM, David McGlone wrote: > > > I'm not passing judgment, It just saddens me that I have to send > > multiple messages and this isn't because of anyone, it's because of my > > lack of knowledge on how to reply to lists that are set up in this way. > > But I think the "reply to list" like ash suggested solves the multiples > > problem. > > > > And on a positive note, If I wouldn't have brought this discussion up, I > > would have never known. Pretty sure I do now. > > > > > > > > Every couple years this discussion comes up. Cracks me up every time. > > When you hit reply all, just take out all the other addresses and leave the > list one in there. The list was setup like this years ago on purpose, and > they've stated in the past they don't want to change it.. > I'm the type of person that figures out how and why and then weighs my options. Figuring out how to reply properly to this list was the first step, now the next step is figuring out if I can deal with it or not. I've decided to stay for a couple reasons, for one, everybody on this list didn't once get mean or hateful during this whole discussion. That flabbergasted me, because on a lot of lists I am on, quite a few people on those lists would have instantly jumped down my throat. Secondly, Everyone on this list that I have seen ask questions and give advise are darn good programmers, so in order to be in the company of people like this, then changing my habits shouldn't be hard. The reason for the subject change was because I feared I was going to start a flame war, so I was going to back down and just forget I mentioned it. -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
Peter Lind wrote: On 21 April 2010 15:41, Dan Joseph wrote: When you hit reply all, just take out all the other addresses and leave the list one in there. The list was setup like this years ago on purpose, and they've stated in the past they don't want to change it.. And waste time every single time you post to the list ... why do people become programmers/developers again? To end creating technical solutions they can then avoid using by doing extra, pointless manual work? Well most of us have read this thread now... and it kinda burned up about 4 years worth of time to remove the extraneous addresses :B Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:41, Dan Joseph wrote: > > When you hit reply all, just take out all the other addresses and leave the > list one in there. The list was setup like this years ago on purpose, and > they've stated in the past they don't want to change it.. And we won't, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it probably does irk a few folks, so this will continue to come up now and again. As annoying as some may find it, though, it's not something we're going to change. -- daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ Looking for hosting or dedicated servers? Ask me how we can fit your budget! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On 21 April 2010 15:41, Dan Joseph wrote: > When you hit reply all, just take out all the other addresses and leave the > list one in there. The list was setup like this years ago on purpose, and > they've stated in the past they don't want to change it.. And waste time every single time you post to the list ... why do people become programmers/developers again? To end creating technical solutions they can then avoid using by doing extra, pointless manual work? Anyway, if there's no chance of changing the minds of the people administering the list, the discussion might as well end now. -- WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:33 AM, David McGlone wrote: > I'm not passing judgment, It just saddens me that I have to send > multiple messages and this isn't because of anyone, it's because of my > lack of knowledge on how to reply to lists that are set up in this way. > But I think the "reply to list" like ash suggested solves the multiples > problem. > > And on a positive note, If I wouldn't have brought this discussion up, I > would have never known. Pretty sure I do now. > > > Every couple years this discussion comes up. Cracks me up every time. When you hit reply all, just take out all the other addresses and leave the list one in there. The list was setup like this years ago on purpose, and they've stated in the past they don't want to change it.. -- -Dan Joseph www.canishosting.com - Unlimited Hosting Plans start @ $3.95/month. Promo Code "NEWTHINGS" for 10% off initial order http://www.facebook.com/canishosting http://www.facebook.com/originalpoetry
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 09:19 -0400, Robert Cummings wrote: > David McGlone wrote: > > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: > >> On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: > >>> Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by > >>> multiple e-mail lists? > >>> It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of > >>> users just to satisfy a couple of few. > >> David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty > >> sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the > >> reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one > >> needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to > >> the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam > >> people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the > >> OP AND the list). > > > > Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, > > GB, etc. > > > > It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get > > 2 of the exact messages. > > I thought you just wanted to know why it is the way it is? Now you're > passing judgement. I'm not passing judgment, It just saddens me that I have to send multiple messages and this isn't because of anyone, it's because of my lack of knowledge on how to reply to lists that are set up in this way. But I think the "reply to list" like ash suggested solves the multiples problem. And on a positive note, If I wouldn't have brought this discussion up, I would have never known. Pretty sure I do now. -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 13:56 +0100, Ashley Sheridan wrote: > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 08:56 -0400, David McGlone wrote: > > > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:42 +0200, Daniel Egeberg wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 14:27, David McGlone wrote: > > > > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't > > > > pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to > > > > the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people > > > > are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. > > > > > > Then get a better email client if yours doesn't support "reply to all" > > > or "reply to group". It's hardly the mailing list's fault that your > > > client doesn't support that. > > > > My email client does support "reply to all", but it's IMHO > > inconsiderate. > > > > Think about people that have to pay for every Mb they download. "reply > > to all" causes these people to have to pay for duplicates. > > > > Now if somebody on this list was paying for their downloads, then you > > and I am costing them money by using "reply to all" and now there are 2 > > duplicate messages for them the download. > > > > How would you feel if this was you? > > > > -- > > Blessings, > > David M. > > > > > > > Did you read the link that David Robley sent on the original thread you > made? > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Yes. but if it was so harmful, why does the 40, 50 or so lists that I've been on, simply let you hit the reply and it goes back to the list? I am not arguing or upset, I am just so puzzled as to why the list has this behavior. It is tedious to have to remember which lists I am on will accept simply hitting the reply and those that don't. > > What you're proposing would cause a lot of problems for the sake of a > few people. I'm not proposing anything. Don't get me wrong. It's just so mind boggling why this behavior. I read and understand the idea behind that link, but if it was so harmful why is the majority of mailing lists allowing a simple "reply"? > And I hardly think that a few emails are going to cause a > bandwidth issue for anybody. If bandwidth was such an issue, they'd be > using an email client that only downloaded the email headers first, and > from there you could easily discern the duplicate messages. Thats true, I agree. But what about those that are not computer savvy? Take my wife for instance. LOL Also, I do not want this discussion to turn into a flame war or anything of such. I am simply just trying to have a discussion and learn why and how there is different behavior here, but not anywhere else. And I am also venting just a tad bit, because for the last 15 years up until I joined this list 6 months or so ago, I have never seen this issue, and changing habits after 15 years is quite hard, but I can't change my habits if I don't figure out how and why. PS. I used the "reply to list" on this e-mail. Do you know of any way I can add an icon to my tool bar instead of clicking on the Message menu or hitting ctrl+l? -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
Daniel Egeberg wrote: Then get a better email client if yours doesn't support "reply to all" or "reply to group". It's hardly the mailing list's fault that your client doesn't support that. Nonsense. I have used lists like this for many, many years. PHP lists are the only ones I have ever used that behave this way. All the others I have used are configured that a simple "Reply" replies to the list. Sure, you can always "Reply All" but then you get multiple replies from the same person to the same post. Plus, it is really easy to forget. In my opinion, it is idiotic. OTOH, what is important to me is the quality of the information that comes in from you incredibly generous people. Thank you to all posters. You are the best. The list behavior is just an irritant, but it pales in comparison to the benefit. Ken -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
David McGlone wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by multiple e-mail lists? It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of users just to satisfy a couple of few. David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the OP AND the list). Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, GB, etc. It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get 2 of the exact messages. I thought you just wanted to know why it is the way it is? Now you're passing judgement. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 08:56 -0400, David McGlone wrote: > On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:42 +0200, Daniel Egeberg wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 14:27, David McGlone wrote: > > > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't > > > pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to > > > the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people > > > are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. > > > > Then get a better email client if yours doesn't support "reply to all" > > or "reply to group". It's hardly the mailing list's fault that your > > client doesn't support that. > > My email client does support "reply to all", but it's IMHO > inconsiderate. > > Think about people that have to pay for every Mb they download. "reply > to all" causes these people to have to pay for duplicates. > > Now if somebody on this list was paying for their downloads, then you > and I am costing them money by using "reply to all" and now there are 2 > duplicate messages for them the download. > > How would you feel if this was you? > > -- > Blessings, > David M. > > Did you read the link that David Robley sent on the original thread you made? http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html What you're proposing would cause a lot of problems for the sake of a few people. And I hardly think that a few emails are going to cause a bandwidth issue for anybody. If bandwidth was such an issue, they'd be using an email client that only downloaded the email headers first, and from there you could easily discern the duplicate messages. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: > On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: > > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by > > multiple e-mail lists? > > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of > > users just to satisfy a couple of few. > > David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty > sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the > reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one > needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to > the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam > people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the > OP AND the list). Exactly. I also feel bad for those who have to pay to download per Mb, GB, etc. It's pitiful that once I send this E-Mail, Peter and Hans both will get 2 of the exact messages. -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:49 +0200, Peter Lind wrote: > On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: > > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by > > multiple e-mail lists? > > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of > > users just to satisfy a couple of few. > > David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty > sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the > reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one > needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to > the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam > people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the > OP AND the list). > > -- > > WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind > Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 > BeWelcome: Fake51 > Couchsurfing: Fake51 > > As I mentioned earlier, the Evolution mail client has a reply to list option which I've used to send this to the list. A decent email client *will* have this option somewhere, but if anyone is using one that doesn't, Evolution is available for the majority of operating systems out there. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 14:42 +0200, Daniel Egeberg wrote: > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 14:27, David McGlone wrote: > > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't > > pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to > > the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people > > are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. > > Then get a better email client if yours doesn't support "reply to all" > or "reply to group". It's hardly the mailing list's fault that your > client doesn't support that. My email client does support "reply to all", but it's IMHO inconsiderate. Think about people that have to pay for every Mb they download. "reply to all" causes these people to have to pay for duplicates. Now if somebody on this list was paying for their downloads, then you and I am costing them money by using "reply to all" and now there are 2 duplicate messages for them the download. How would you feel if this was you? -- Blessings, David M. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On 21 April 2010 14:38, Hans Åhlin wrote: > Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by > multiple e-mail lists? > It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of > users just to satisfy a couple of few. David was venting based on a discussion in another thread. I'm pretty sure he knows about the option to reply-all - that's part of the reason for venting (it sends multiple emails instead of just the one needed). The optimal scenario is to: 1) be able to quickly respond to the list, as that's the normal action you want to do and 2) not spam people with several emails for no reason (i.e. avoid replying to the OP AND the list). -- WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
Why change the way that has been around for years and adopted by multiple e-mail lists? It feels like it's more problem to change the way for thousands of users just to satisfy a couple of few. ** Hans Åhlin Tel: +46761488019 http://www.kronan-net.com/ irc://irc.freenode.net:6667 - TheCoin ** 2010/4/21 David McGlone : > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't > pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to > the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people > are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. > > It just doesn't make sense to me, why be on the mailing list if it > hinders having a group discussion without having to jump through > hurdles. It also defeats the purpose of being on a group list if > replying sends the reply to the OP. > > Every message sent to this list, simply hitting reply should send back > to this list and not the OP. > -- > Blessings, > David M. > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 14:27, David McGlone wrote: > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I can't > pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies go to > the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or most people > are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. Then get a better email client if yours doesn't support "reply to all" or "reply to group". It's hardly the mailing list's fault that your client doesn't support that. -- Daniel Egeberg -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
David McGlone wrote: > I give up. trying to reply to messages on this list is tedious. I > can't pinpoint whether it's because the list is set up to make replies > go to the OP or the OP has his reply-to in his mail client set, or > most people are hitting the reply-to button instead of simply reply. Did you try "Reply-All" ? That usually does it for me. > It just doesn't make sense to me, why be on the mailing list if it > hinders having a group discussion without having to jump through > hurdles. It also defeats the purpose of being on a group list if > replying sends the reply to the OP. Reply-All. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.2°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] replying to list (I give up)
The reply-to header should be changed to php-gene...@lists.php.net. I experience many dev list that are configured this way. So, in my gmail i change my habit to press "a" instead of "r". Shiplu Mokaddim My talks, http://talk.cmyweb.net Follow me, http://twitter.com/shiplu SUST Programmers, http://groups.google.com/group/p2psust Innovation distinguishes bet ... ... (ask Steve Jobs the rest) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
