Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-15 Thread Amaury Hernández Águila
How reliable are the statistics from w3schools? ( http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp). It is stated in this page http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp that IE6 users are about 0.1% of the total Internet users. When I first began web development I always tried to

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-15 Thread andreas
> FWIW, in my case I fall back to polling every 10s in case websockets > are not supported. However, as soon as IE9 penetration drops to an > insignificant level I will stop with fallbacks. > Make a user agent statistic from your users, or try to obtain data about your target audience. Rumour is,

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-15 Thread Henrik Sarvell
FWIW, in my case I fall back to polling every 10s in case websockets are not supported. However, as soon as IE9 penetration drops to an insignificant level I will stop with fallbacks. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:11 PM, wrote: > Seems like we have a similar goal, Amaury! Cool :) > >> On Mon, Jul

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-15 Thread andreas
Seems like we have a similar goal, Amaury! Cool :) > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 03:52:42AM -0700, Amaury Hernández Águila wrote: >> Yeah that would be nice. So, isn't that a good reason to have websockets >> in >> PocoLisp? > > I would not say so. In a video game you have so much continuous > commu

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Henrik Sarvell
Yes but that's a residential subscription, before we moved to co-location we used fasthosts.co.uk (highly recommended if you don't do the kind of realtime stuff I do at work). With fasthosts you get "unlimited" speed and transfers but when you do what we do you quickly realize that it doesn't work

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Henrik, > 44KB / second is far from insignificant IMO, it works out to 0.35 > Mbit/s if I'm not mistaken, we're paying 20 EUR per month per 1Mbit at > our current co-location. Well worth spending a couple of days to avoid > permanently. wow, 20 EUR per 1Mbit? 160 EUR per 1MByte? In 2014? I

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Henrik Sarvell
44KB / second is far from insignificant IMO, it works out to 0.35 Mbit/s if I'm not mistaken, we're paying 20 EUR per month per 1Mbit at our current co-location. Well worth spending a couple of days to avoid permanently. Plus, the goal is to have much much more people logged in in the future. On

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Alexander Burger
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 03:52:42AM -0700, Amaury Hernández Águila wrote: > Yeah that would be nice. So, isn't that a good reason to have websockets in > PocoLisp? I would not say so. In a video game you have so much continuous communication going on (most notably the stream of image frames), that

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Amaury Hernández Águila
Yeah that would be nice. So, isn't that a good reason to have websockets in PocoLisp? El jul 14, 2014 3:49 AM, "Alexander Burger" escribió: > Hi Amaury, > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 03:26:15AM -0700, Amaury Hernández Águila wrote: > > How about a browser videogame? Developing videogames in PicoLis

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Alexander Burger
Hi Amaury, On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 03:26:15AM -0700, Amaury Hernández Águila wrote: > How about a browser videogame? Developing videogames in PicoLisp would be > great. I think I'll start one tomorrow. Really? That would be great! I suspect there are many people here interested to help. ♪♫ Alex

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Amaury Hernández Águila
How about a browser videogame? Developing videogames in PicoLisp would be great. I think I'll start one tomorrow. El jul 14, 2014 3:21 AM, "Alexander Burger" escribió: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 12:02:10PM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote: > > with a size of 449 bytes. This is less than the default T

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Alexander Burger
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 12:02:10PM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote: > with a size of 449 bytes. This is less than the default TCP packet size > of 1152 bytes, so a headerless protcoll wouldn't save anything here. Sorry, forget that! I think there is no default TCP packet size :) Anyway, we are not t

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Alexander Burger
Hi Tomas, > thing like the example from Alex, then the amount of work on the server > seems rather small and avoiding sending HTTP headers seems like > pointless micro-optimization. True. The posts caused by the +Auto button are POST /55319/29110032894590418~!jsForm?!chat?*Menu=+0&*Tab=+1&*ID

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Alexander Burger
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:41:08AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote: > Not such a big problem. If I measure the described chat client, pinging > every 2 seconds, I get 335 Bytes per second on the average. This amounts > to 65 kB per second for 200 clients. Not a big problem today. Typically Oops, no!

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Tomas Hlavaty
Hi Henrik and Alex, Henrik Sarvell writes: > Hi Alex, doesn't all that polling you're doing introduce a lot of > unnecessary requests to the server. > > There can be up to 200 persons logged in at the same time at the site > where I'm using websockets now, that would be 100 HTTP POSTS per > secon

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Alexander Burger
Hi Henrik, > There can be up to 200 persons logged in at the same time at the site > where I'm using websockets now, that would be 100 HTTP POSTS per > second with full HTTP headers etc just to check for notifications that > perhaps 1 or 2 of them would get per 10 seconds. Not such a big problem.

Re: Doubts about the benefits of WebSockets

2014-07-14 Thread Henrik Sarvell
Hi Alex, doesn't all that polling you're doing introduce a lot of unnecessary requests to the server. There can be up to 200 persons logged in at the same time at the site where I'm using websockets now, that would be 100 HTTP POSTS per second with full HTTP headers etc just to check for notificat