Re: [PEDA] Pricing and other info on the Protel site
Well the price was known before, at least as upgrade. To my knowledge, the upgrade price had not been officially announced until now. All previous press releases stated, Pricing is expected to be in line with the current Protel 99 SE pricing model. The rumour we heard of $1995 for a 99SE to DXP upgrade was obviously correct. I find it interesting that ATS is still described as a $1995 or $2000 value but on the DXP Pricing page it now states: Altium Total Support (ATS) membership (annually renewable for US$1,495). I guess this is because the only way to gets ATS is to pay the $1995 upgrade price. Brock Russell * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing and other info on the Protel site
Well the price was known before, at least as upgrade. But the price is one thing, what you get for it is another. You have a job to be done, and there are tools. Tools that are faster, tools that are simpler and others. I have no idea, where the new DXP is to be judged. Time will tell. With some luck you can get a 30 day trial to evaluate whether the cost are justified. Rene -- Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com Darren wrote: From the Protel home page... Protel DXP is released for external beta testing and Altium announces Protel DXP pricing Read media release See Protel DXP pricing * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
At 09:03 PM 11/12/01 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote: If you have Protel99SE purchased prior to October 1st then the enhanced ATS support services are free for the next 12 months. This does not include software upgrades. Based on our current pricing the upgrade to P2002 (for want of a name) will be approximately $2195. This upgrade will include 12 months ATS. This is, I understand, in Australian dollars and includes VAT (tax). Correct me if I am wrong. What's the current US dollar exchange rate? What was the first P98 to P99 upgrade price in Australian dollars? Yes, this may be a doubling of what we have paid over the last two years, but only because there has not been an upgrade in that period. If Protel issues major upgrades every year, then this may well be about the right price. The devil is in the details, however. I hope that Protel clears this up soon! For readers popping in without having followed the ATS discussion, the above represents only Australian pricing and policy; policy and pricing *may* differ elsewhere. The exact impact of the pricing structure may well depend on whether or not Protel issues a major upgrade in the year following the announcement of Protel 2002. If so, then we will be getting *two* upgrades for the price, and we will still be able to claim that Protel has low maintenance costs. But the price of the *next* upgrade, assuming that they come once per year, will have doubled. This is a lot of time in which to discuss the matter with Protel and for Protel to adjust policies if necessary. I'm not sure that I like this, it is more unstable and uncertain. Sure, it will become easy to predict and budget costs, but not cost/benefit. We can, as matters stand, decide when the benefit is sufficient *for us* to justify the price, there are no surprises. (A surprise might be that the next upgrade really adds no features that we need; under the present system we simply would not buy it if money was an issue for us.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
Brad Now where have I heard that before? Bob Brad Velander wrote: Rob, try my quandry, 5 licenses and a bunch of rogue engineers who care not about licenses, support or anything else as long as they can get a design out the door. If they can't get the design out the door then they all want to instantly buy some other program that minute. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. #300 - 4401 Still Creek Drive, Burnaby, B.C., Canada, V5C 6G9. Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 Website: www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 2:39 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pricing and to add another question to the confusion What happens if you have two Protel Licenses and buy 1 ATS? It might be affordable then. Rob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
At 02:48 PM 11/9/01 -0500, Sean James wrote: Well everybody, Accel/PCAD did the same exact thing by changing their pricing. Who owns Accel/PCAD and Protel? Yes, Altium, nee Protel, owns both. BUT the Accel pricing boost was while Accel Technologies was independent. It was my impression that Protel wrapped up the whole bundle of PCAD products, which used to sell for about $20K, and reduced the price to $9995. Bit I had not seen PCAD pricing recently. So I called 'em up. First I talked to Protel sales, and I found out some *very* interesting information. It seems we may have been reading the announcement incorrectly. I should have called sooner. More about that below. Then I asked about PCAD pricing. Yes, PCAD 2001 is still $9995. The original separate prices of all the units now included was $27K not including simulation. Protel tossed in CAMtastic and the simulation package that used to sell for another $10K. So Accel under Protel/Altium ownership has drastically reduced prices. They also got rid of the dongle. I'm sure PCAD users were heartbroken over that :-) Now, to ATS for Protel. Today, you can buy from Accel Technologies (the U.S. Protel rep, we've gone full circle) the upgrade from Protel 98 to Protel 99SE for $1995. Essentially, a Protel 98 user can buy ATS for that price, and since ATS includes automatic upgrades, *the next version will be included.* This is, if anything, a price *reduction.* Since July 1, the Protel 98 to Protel 99SE upgrade has been that same price, it was $1495 before that. Now, since October 1, it includes ATS for a year! Protel has not announced ATS or upgrade pricing for current Protel 99SE users. But if it was more than about $995, Protel would be *penalizing* users for upgrading to 99SE sooner than October 1. I don't think they are going to do that. From previous indications and history, I'm going to guess that upgrade from Protel 99SE to the next release is going to be about $995 and it will include one year of ATS. The ongoing ATS price, I was told, has not really been established, or if it has, it has not been announced to sales. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
What a huge mass of confusion this ATS nonsense has caused. I now know nothing about the future of Protel or its products, whereas before all this I *thought* I knew there was a PCB software provider that provided free services packs and tech support, and I could choose whether or not and when to upgrade. There is no understanding where there was understanding before. We have gone from light into darkness. The FUD is engulfing me... Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pricing At 02:48 PM 11/9/01 -0500, Sean James wrote: Well everybody, Accel/PCAD did the same exact thing by changing their pricing. Who owns Accel/PCAD and Protel? Yes, Altium, nee Protel, owns both. BUT the Accel pricing boost was while Accel Technologies was independent. It was my impression that Protel wrapped up the whole bundle of PCAD products, which used to sell for about $20K, and reduced the price to $9995. Bit I had not seen PCAD pricing recently. So I called 'em up. First I talked to Protel sales, and I found out some *very* interesting information. It seems we may have been reading the announcement incorrectly. I should have called sooner. More about that below. Then I asked about PCAD pricing. Yes, PCAD 2001 is still $9995. The original separate prices of all the units now included was $27K not including simulation. Protel tossed in CAMtastic and the simulation package that used to sell for another $10K. So Accel under Protel/Altium ownership has drastically reduced prices. They also got rid of the dongle. I'm sure PCAD users were heartbroken over that :-) Now, to ATS for Protel. Today, you can buy from Accel Technologies (the U.S. Protel rep, we've gone full circle) the upgrade from Protel 98 to Protel 99SE for $1995. Essentially, a Protel 98 user can buy ATS for that price, and since ATS includes automatic upgrades, *the next version will be included.* This is, if anything, a price *reduction.* Since July 1, the Protel 98 to Protel 99SE upgrade has been that same price, it was $1495 before that. Now, since October 1, it includes ATS for a year! Protel has not announced ATS or upgrade pricing for current Protel 99SE users. But if it was more than about $995, Protel would be *penalizing* users for upgrading to 99SE sooner than October 1. I don't think they are going to do that. From previous indications and history, I'm going to guess that upgrade from Protel 99SE to the next release is going to be about $995 and it will include one year of ATS. The ongoing ATS price, I was told, has not really been established, or if it has, it has not been announced to sales. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
At 04:36 PM 11/9/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: What a huge mass of confusion this ATS nonsense has caused. Yes, the announcement was *very* badly done. The Press Release was directly contradicted by USA Protel sales. I'd suggest that Altium *communicate* -- this means back and forth -- with the users about plans *before* making a full public announcements. There would be no harm in making an announcement here on this list a couple of days before it goes out to everyone and his brother. Altium could say, we are thinking of doing this -- i.e., they have decided to do it but before it is 100% final they want to see what we think -- and then any misgivings or questions that we have could be *answered*, not only here, but then in the press release and major announcement. We *express* our displeasure, most users won't. They will just have one more reason to go somewhere else for CAD software. Too much of that, it could really hurt. It *has* hurt. There is *still* chaos, the resale market for 99SE is in confusion; if someone buys a second-hand SE license now, will they have to pay another $2000 to get the next version? We had been thinking it would be about $1000. So suddenly, from the announcement, the resale price -- which Altium sales has been trying to increase, at least by asking me -- informally -- to work to that end -- drops $1000, from about $6000 to $5000. We had all this discussion here, and not a peep from any Protel rep. Sure, we are used to relative silence from them, but generally when we go too far off into the ozone, Protel CSC has popped in with corrections. This time, nothing. Sometimes I wonder if the Altium sales people are professionals They seem intelligent enough when I talk to them. But something is wacky about the situation. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
and to add another question to the confusion What happens if you have two Protel Licenses and buy 1 ATS? It might be affordable then. Rob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
Rob, try my quandry, 5 licenses and a bunch of rogue engineers who care not about licenses, support or anything else as long as they can get a design out the door. If they can't get the design out the door then they all want to instantly buy some other program that minute. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. #300 - 4401 Still Creek Drive, Burnaby, B.C., Canada, V5C 6G9. Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 Website: www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 2:39 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Pricing and to add another question to the confusion What happens if you have two Protel Licenses and buy 1 ATS? It might be affordable then. Rob * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
At 05:39 PM 11/9/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and to add another question to the confusion What happens if you have two Protel Licenses and buy 1 ATS? It might be affordable then. It might be illegal then Sure, you'd get the CD for the upgrade, but if you really want to save some money, just get a friend to give you a copy. Illegal, but why not go two-for-one? You can upgrade/maintain only one license, I am sure, but you would have only one license for the new version, not two. It is looking like it *will* be affordable, my guess right now is that the upgrade from 99SE to the next version is going to be about what the upgrade was from 98 to 99, not much more. Problem is, this is a guess, time will tell how educated it is. I have no special inside information. Because of my situation supporting second-hand license sales, I am going to be asking for some hints from my contacts in Altium. At that time I might know something I won't be able to announce, we'll see how far I get. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax Easthampton, Massachusetts USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Pricing
On 04:29 PM 9/11/2001 -0500, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said: ..PCAD stuff snipped.. Now, to ATS for Protel. Today, you can buy from Accel Technologies (the U.S. Protel rep, we've gone full circle) the upgrade from Protel 98 to Protel 99SE for $1995. Essentially, a Protel 98 user can buy ATS for that price, and since ATS includes automatic upgrades, *the next version will be included.* This is, if anything, a price *reduction.* Since July 1, the Protel 98 to Protel 99SE upgrade has been that same price, it was $1495 before that. Now, since October 1, it includes ATS for a year! Protel has not announced ATS or upgrade pricing for current Protel 99SE users. But if it was more than about $995, Protel would be *penalizing* users for upgrading to 99SE sooner than October 1. I don't think they are going to do that. From previous indications and history, I'm going to guess that upgrade from Protel 99SE to the next release is going to be about $995 and it will include one year of ATS. The ongoing ATS price, I was told, has not really been established, or if it has, it has not been announced to sales. I too have spoken to people in Altium on ATS (in fact they rang me in response to a long, hopefully carefully crafted email, direct email that I had sent). My understanding is that the information in the press release is correct. I repeat: Altium Total Support is annually renewable and is priced at US$1995. for P-CAD and Protel full suites. Prices of other product configurations are available on request. This press release information is consistent with my discussions with Altium. So we seem to have conflicting advice. There is no mention in the press release that the price information is related to upgrade pricing for P98. My *guess* is that the currently targeted upgrade price, for existing P99SE license holders is the ATS price. This price, annually, is, it seems to me roughly doubling our current effective maintenance costs for maintaining a Protel license at the latest and greatest. I did look to see if there had been an announcement on the ASX (Austr. Stock Exch) about ATS as there are strict rules for such announcements, and the need for accuracy. Unfortunately, I could not find anything about ATS. Nor is there any mention of ATS in the financial report (at least the searching for ATS in the pdf finds). So we seem to be in FUD mode at the moment. It would seem sensible that Protel CSC should provide public detailed clarification to our questions and possible incorrect statements. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
