Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 13.07.2010 00:48, schrieb Eric Smith: > On 7/12/2010 6:04 PM, Michael Foord wrote: >> Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a >> reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the >> responsibility of committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this >> *i

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

I wrote: > Indeed!  And I'd be quite content with such a solution, since I > consider scripts and modules to be distinct. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Except that modules can often be executed as scripts... Rest assured, I'm well aware of the history, and don't seriou

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/11/10 7:31 AM, Tal Einat wrote: However, I still think IDLE is not currently in a state that it should be suggested for use by beginners. Being one of those beginners... here's my $0.02 worth. IDLE being instantly available on pretty much anything I care to try my hand at python on... my

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 10:49 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: I've not had experience with patches from Terry. I don't think there are any in IDLE, at least not acknowledged in NEWS. You posts in the last day have told me a lot more about you. Let me introduce myself to you in turn. I have been involved wi

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Steve Holden wrote: > I agree, the tear-off menus are an anachronism. OK, thanks for the input. I use them rarely, myself. > I'd also like a pony in the form of easily-changeable sets of > keystroke mappings. I have never found Alt-P and its cousins either > memorable or c

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 6:50 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 13.07.2010 00:00, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: There should be an "Edit with IDLE" (sic) context menu item. I agree, and thought about requesting such You misunderstand. To the contrary. You misunde

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 2:05 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, >>> especially for IDLE, >> >> Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. > > If I were approved to commit patche

Re: [Python-Dev] Python equivalents in stdlib Was: Include datetime.py in stdlib or not?

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:44 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: .. > and it still requires that '_pickle' is disabled to pass pickle tests. > I have found the problem in test_datetime. Restoring sys.modules has to be done in-place. With this fix, test_datetime looks as follows: = import unitte

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 2986: difflib.SequenceMatcher is partly broken

On 7/11/2010 11:02 PM, Tim Peters wrote: The heuristic lowered the reported match ratio from .96 to .88, which would be bad when one wanted the unaltered value. BTW, it's not clear whether ratio() computes a _useful_ value in the presence of junk, however that may be defined. I agree, which

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: >>> On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >>> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. >>> >>> On my xp machine with 3.1.2,

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Neil Hodgson wrote: > Kurt B. Kaiser: > >>> The tear off menus are ugly as well as being non-standard on all three >>> major platforms. >> Well, would you discard them? They can (occasionally) be useful. > >Yes, I would replace the menus with ones missing the tear line. > Most of the GUI tool

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library; Scherer Agreement

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > I don't recall that VIDLE has anything to do with running multiple IDLE > copies. Well, I stole the ephemeral port idea from him! > What's in VIDLE is a lot of bug fixes and some improvements. For > example, you can configure it to not require having

[Python-Dev] python-checkins

Antoine Pitrou writes: > You don't have to receive e-mail from it. Just take a look at the > archives from time to time after you have done some commits. > In a threaded view, it's easy to spot the few messages which aren't > commit notifications, since they are the only one not at the > top-

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Fred Drake wrote: Not when both modules are at the top level; both acceptably provide the same name. The let's-play-with-it script just wasn't *intended* to be a module. I wonder whether this kind of problem would be less prevalent if the tutorials etc. encouraged naming top-level scripts wit

[Python-Dev] How to block a module import

I thought that in order to block a module from being imported, one would need to assign None to the corresponding entry in sys.modules. However, it looks like the code in test.support uses 0 instead of None: def _save_and_block_module(name, orig_modules): """Helper function to save and block a

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:05:24 am Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Fred Drake wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > > > > wrote: > >> I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to > >> reimport the script being executed as __main__ with

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

Titus von der Malsburg wrote: None of the examples I found used the pythonic exception style, that's why I assumed that checking the "return value" is the only possibility. Reading the PEP carefully would have helped. :-) I had to read the pep fairly carefully before I noticed this too, so per

Re: [Python-Dev] python-checkins replies

On 12/07/2010 23:48, Eric Smith wrote: On 7/12/2010 6:04 PM, Michael Foord wrote: Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Kurt B. Kaiser: >> The tear off menus are ugly as well as being non-standard on all three >> major platforms. > > Well, would you discard them? They can (occasionally) be useful. Yes, I would replace the menus with ones missing the tear line. Most of the GUI toolkits experimented with tear-off

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano >>  wrote: >> >>> >>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: >>> > > re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it shou

[Python-Dev] python-checkins

Le lundi 12 juillet 2010 à 23:04 +0100, Michael Foord a écrit : > Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a > reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the > responsibility of committers to monitor it. You don't have to receive e-mail from it. Just take

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 2:05 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, especially for IDLE, Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. If I were approved to commit patches directly, then by implication I should be able to ap

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 07/12/2010 01:21 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam mailto:r...@ronadam.com>> wrote: There might be another alternative. Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 13.07.2010 00:00, schrieb Terry Reedy: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: >>> On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >>> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. >>> >>> On my xp machine with 3.1.2

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 6:04 PM, Michael Foord wrote: Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our standard dev procedures and nor do I thi

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 5:47 PM, Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: >> I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the >> script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these >> problems. > > Indeed! And

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > I have been maintaining my own fork of IDLE for several years and > manually keeping it in sync with IDLE (this was simple). The > difference is that there was no single major new feature I was working > on, such as the addition of a sub-process in IDLE-fork

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12 July 2010 23:00, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> >> There should be an "Edit with IDLE" (sic) context menu item. > > I agree, and thought about requesting such, but there is not and never has > been for me that I know of. There is for me. I think what

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 23:00, Terry Reedy wrote: On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On 12/07/2010 23:23, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Michael Foord wrote: An explicit error being raised instead would be just as good. Ah, refusing the temptation to guess. So the idea would be, when attempting to import __main__ under it's original name: 3.2

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On 12/07/2010 22:59, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:47:31 -0400 Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the script being executed as __main__ with a different nam

[Python-Dev] Intended behavior of backlash in raw strings

I'm trying to determine if this is intended behavior: >>> r"\"" '\\"' >>> r'\'' "\\'" Normally, the quote would end the string, but it gets escaped by the preceding '\'. However, the preceding slash is interpreted as 'not a backslash' because of the raw indicator, so it gets left in verbatim. N

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:57 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis": Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to a committer's email address, There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. What a

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > An explicit error being raised instead would be just as good. Ah, refusing the temptation to guess. So the idea would be, when attempting to import __main__ under it's original name: 3.2 issue a DeprecationWarning 3.3 raise ImportError It

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable > place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of > committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our standard > dev procedure

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 23:57, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: > 2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis" : Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to a committer's email address, >>> >>> There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. >> >> Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On 12/07/2010 23:05, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the script being executed as __main__ with a different name it

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: >> I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the >> script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these >> problems. > > Indeed!  An

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 22:52, Nick Coghlan wrote: [snip...] so it's usually just a matter of hitting "Reply" and sending the review comment to the list. With a new committer I'll make the effort to cc them directly in case they aren't subscribed yet, but I expect everyone else to be monitor the checkins

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the installer just

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:47:31 -0400 Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: > > I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the > > script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these > > problems. > > Inde

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis" : >>> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >>> a committer's email address, >> >> There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. > > Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. What about the python-committers mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:39 AM, Michael Foord wrote: >> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >> a committer's email address, > > There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. That "somewhere" isn't readily available when I hit reply to the checkin email though (for me

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 22:47, Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these problems. Indeed! And I'd be quite

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

>> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >> a committer's email address, > > There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mai

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: > I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the > script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these > problems. Indeed! And I'd be quite content with such a solution, since I consider

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: > On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > >> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. > > On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the > installer just copies forward the association from lon

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On 13 Jul 2010, at 00:59, Titus von der Malsburg wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:48:35AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Titus von der Malsburg That's what actually happens, so you can code it either way That's great! None of the examples I found used the pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 22:33, Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: Doesn't absolute import help? Not when both modules are at the top level; both acceptably provide the same name. The let's-play-with-it script just wasn't *intended* to be a module.

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: >   Doesn't absolute import help? Not when both modules are at the top level; both acceptably provide the same name. The let's-play-with-it script just wasn't *intended* to be a module. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "A storm broke loo

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the installer just copies forward the association from long ago, before IDLE was available, or at least so u

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 13:01, schrieb Tal Einat: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:41 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> My point is that I don't think I am exaggerating IDLE's flaws. I'm not >>> saying that it is no longer usable or useful, but I am saying that its >>> current state is not "okay". >> >> So can yo

Re: [Python-Dev] More C API abstraction for user defined types

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Petre Galan wrote: > ival should not be resolved through PyLong_AsLong, but through > functionality/interface like PyNumber_Long, thus allowing more diversity in > accessing the PyArg_Parse interfaces. Sounds like a reasonable idea to me, but it needs to be a post

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, geremy condra wrote: > >> No offense, but I've been specifically asked not to do demos with IDLE >> because it looked 'unprofessional'. Given the constraint of working >> within tkinter that may not be something you can

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement

On 7/12/2010 7:42 AM, R. David Murray wrote: Another 'enhancement' might be to have a program occasionally email people with the items they are currently signed up for, to encourage editing. -- R. David Murray www.bitdance.com -- Terry Jan Reedy _

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 03:48:12PM -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > I feel your pain. It seems like every third person who starts playing with > Twisted starts off by making a file called 'twisted.py' and then getting > really confused by the behavior. I would love it if this could be fixed, but

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Reid Kleckner wrote: > (Somwhat off-topic): Another pain point students had was accidentally > shadowing stdlib modules, like random. Renaming the file didn't solve > the problem either, because it left behind .pycs, which I had to help > them delete. I feel your

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > +1 for fixing it from me, unless any of the other implementations object. > > @Mark: my comment on the tracker issue had an implied "...unless you > really want to" on the end :) Thanks! Patch at http://bugs.python.org/issue9232 Mark ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 19:21, Ian Bicking wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam > wrote: There might be another alternative. Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam wrote: > There might be another alternative. > > Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the > standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are possibly importable > to other projects. That restricts changes because a c

[Python-Dev] More C API abstraction for user defined types

Hello, Defining a user type which implements number protocol should be treated as a number (long) in PyArg_ParseTuple using "l" format. In getargs.c: case 'l': {/* long int */ long *p = va_arg(*p_va, long *); long ival; if (float_argument_err

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 16:52, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Michael Foord wrote: That mailing list (python-checkins) is way too high traffic for many committers to monitor. I hope people making comments on checkins also email the committer directly. Not normally, no -

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" >> wrote: FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to h

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Bill Janssen wrote: > Steve, you encouraged me to try it again.  From an xterm on OS X 10.5.8, > it launches fine (long as you know where it is -- > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/idle). > Seems to work OK for what it is, too.  Sam

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Neil Hodgson wrote: >On the main editing screen of IDLE, the most noticeable issue is > that there is no horizontal scroll bar even though the text will move > left when you move the caret beyond the rightmost visible character. That was a design decision by Guido to enco

Re: [Python-Dev] commit privs

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:23:13 + > Reid Kleckner wrote: >> >> I'm also expecting to be doing more work merging unladen-swallow into >> the py3k-jit branch, so I was wondering if I could get commit >> privileges for that. > > It sounds goo

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > That mailing list (python-checkins) is way too high traffic for many > committers to monitor. I hope people making comments on checkins also email > the committer directly. Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, 2010-07-12 at 16:18 +0100, Michael Foord wrote: > On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > > re2 deliberately omits some features for efficiency reasons, hence is > > not even on the table as a possible replacement for

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:23:04 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > What distro are you using? Tk8.6 is still in beta. It's Mandriva 2010.1 > Still looks crummy? Bummer. Yes. > Fine, I showed it as an example of the improvement in 8.5. Most people, > I think, are using Windows or Macs. Looks d

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Stephen Hansen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > > > Stephen Hansen wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo > > > wrote: > > > > > > By "never had a problem" do you mean using some of the latest > > versions > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:18:38 +0100 Michael Foord wrote: > On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: > >> > re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if i

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > Also, the current right click edit action on Windows is to only open an > edit window; no shell.  And it uses the subprocess!  So, some of the > comments on this thread are not up to date. > > The reason that bug languished for two years was

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, geremy condra wrote: > No offense, but I've been specifically asked not to do demos with IDLE > because it looked 'unprofessional'. Given the constraint of working > within tkinter that may not be something you can work around, but I'm > sure you can see that from a certain pe

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:12:10 -0400 > "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >> > >> > Ok, I've just tried IDLE (on py3k) for the first time in years. Under >> > Linux, the look is ugly and outdated; it uses some kind of Motif-like >> > widgets. >> >> That's because

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it should be included in stdlib. Is "it" re2 or regex? I don't see having 2

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Éric Araujo wrote: >> Plus, is a useful resource >> for core developers with only a little bit of free time to do a >> review. > > Title: “Review Tickets, By Order You Should Review Them In” > I haven’t found a description of

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > > > As I recollect, much of what Scherer did in VIDLE related to running > multiple IDLE copies. > > For that reason, the VIDLE changes have to be evaluated carefully to > determine what has already been incorporated. I believe I added a >

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >> Using Tkinter is a major reason that maintaining and further >> developing IDLE is difficult. For example, it took me many hours just >> to get a working Tkinter scrolled frame widget, having had to write it >> from scratch and struggle with the under-documented Canvas widg

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's >>> project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to have a fork of >>> IDLE with new features which need to be tried o

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 15:42, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: +1. Don't be afraid. We are quite good at pointing out mistakes after the fact :) Just make sure to subscribe to python-checkins and keep an eye out for replies to your commits. Most post

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:48:35AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Titus von der Malsburg > That's what actually happens, so you can code it either way That's great! None of the examples I found used the pythonic exception style, that's why I assumed that checking t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Titus von der Malsburg wrote: > This reminds me a lot of how things are done in C but it's not very > pythonic.  Wouldn't it be possible and nicer to raise the exception -- > if there was one inside the asynchronous job -- when the result of the > future is access

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > +1. Don't be afraid. We are quite good at pointing out mistakes after > the fact :) Just make sure to subscribe to python-checkins and keep an eye out for replies to your commits. Most post hoc review comments come in as replies to the com

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/10 10:16 AM, Michiel Overtoom wrote: Tal Einat wrote: I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I use IDLE every day. It does everything I want an IDE to do, it looks simple and doesn't waste screen real estate like some other IDEs do, it supports proportionally

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tal Einat wrote: >> I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. >> >> I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help >> maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. > > I'm surprised by the amount of intere

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Tal Einat wrote: I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I use IDLE every day. It does everything I want an IDE to do, it looks simple and doesn't waste screen real estate like some other IDEs do, it supports proportionally spaced fonts correctly, its syntax coloring

[Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

Hi I learned about the futures PEP only today. I saw the example on http://code.google.com/p/pythonfutures/ One thing that worries me is that this approach seems to bypass the usual exception handling mechanism of Python. In particular I'm wondering why you have to do things like: if future.e

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: >> > re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it should be >> > included in stdlib. >> >> Is "it" re2 or regex? I don't see having 2 regular expression engines >> in the stdlib. >

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:36:33 +0200 "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > I think Martin has always supported me in some way and I really > > appreciate that. But, maybe because I won commit privileges solely > > based on GSoC work, I felt other developers wouldn't approve my > > commits without previous di

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting an optional parameter instead of creating a socket internally

On 12:30 pm, thebra...@brasse.org wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:06 PM, wrote: It's still little more than an outline. You can see it here: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ProtocolPEP And if you're interested in helping, we can figure out a way to do that (you can have edit permissi

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 11:37, geremy condra wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: Jesse Noller wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF funds might help; if every single bug were actively tr

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

If I read the patch correctly it replaces the existing 8.4 support by support for 8.5. That would not be acceptable because it would result in a non-functional version of IDLE for anyone that hasn't installed a custom copy of Tk. Not quite. It doesn't specify a version of Tk to run; it ch

Re: [Python-Dev] IRC culture (was: Removing IDLE from the standard library)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 23:51:35 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with > animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel. I > thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend > going back. I would like

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting an optional parameter instead of creating a socket internally

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:06 PM, wrote: > On 03:11 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 13/04/10 04:03, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: >> >>> On 12 Apr, 11:19 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote: >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 >> "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >>> >>> I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly.  It is minimal. >>> On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:12:10 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > > > Ok, I've just tried IDLE (on py3k) for the first time in years. Under > > Linux, the look is ugly and outdated; it uses some kind of Motif-like > > widgets. > > That's because Linux isn't using Tk 8.5 yet. Debian defaults to Tk 8

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 > "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >> >> I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly. It is minimal. >> On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar. Those >> who haven't looked at it for awhile

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:13:21 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 11/07/2010 19:40, "Martin v. L=F6wis" wrote: > >>> There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit > >>> bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at > >>> least one of them commit privilege

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement (was: Removing IDLE from the standard library)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:07:54 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > I've been working from this:- > http://svn.python.org/view/*checkout*/python/branches/py3k/Misc/maintainers.rst > > It strikes me as being so sadly outdated that it's getting less than > useless, or I assume that it's the same old case o

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement

On 12/07/2010 12:42, R. David Murray wrote: [snip...] E.g.: unicodedata loewis, lemburg, ezio.melotti* would mean "You can add loewis and lemburg to the nosy list and assign the issue to ezio.melotti". Otherwise we can just decide that those I like this suggestion, but

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