Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

-On [20100712 08:26], Stephen Hansen (apt.shan...@gmail.com) wrote: >But I, personally, would consider it a significant loss if IDLE went the way of >the dodo or a third-party module.  Why would it be a significant loss if it went the way of a third party module? Clearly right now it'

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 10:06, schrieb Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven: > -On [20100712 08:26], Stephen Hansen (apt.shan...@gmail.com) wrote: >> But I, personally, would consider it a significant loss if IDLE went the way >> of >> the dodo or a third-party module. > > Why would

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11 2010, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > On the notion that IDLE is fatally flawed and is driving away > potential users of Python (to put the statements in their most extreme > form): > > It seems that there are (at least) two very different communities > people have in mind. I can appreciate

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Jesse Noller wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: > >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF funds > >>> might help; if every > >>> single bug were actively triaged and responded to, even if it weren't > >>> reviewed, and patch > >>> cont

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > -On [20100712 08:26], Stephen Hansen (apt.shan...@gmail.com) wrote: >>But I, personally, would consider it a significant loss if IDLE went >>the way of the dodo or a third-party module.  > > Why would it be a signif

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly. It is minimal. > On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar. Those > who haven't looked at it for awhile may not be aware of the recent > advances made by T

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

After a few keystrokes in the interactive interpreter, I got the following traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "Lib/idlelib/idle.py", line 11, in idlelib.PyShell.main() File "/home/antoine/py3k/__svn__/Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 1420, in main root.mainloop() File

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > Jesse Noller wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF >> >>> funds might help; if every >> >>> single bug were actively triaged and responded t

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 2.56, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the latter I again say sorry. I see. What copy have you been using specifically? I think I need to remove myself

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Hi Kurt, I'm glad you've joined this discussion. My point is that whatever the reason, for the past five years (at least) nearly every issue related to IDLE has taken years to be resolved, and many have still not been resolved. As a result the current state of IDLE is quite poor. To be perfectly

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:41 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> My point is that I don't think I am exaggerating IDLE's flaws. I'm not >> saying that it is no longer usable or useful, but I am saying that its >> current state is not "okay". > > So can you produce a list of patches that you think can

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's >> project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to have a fork of >> IDLE with new features which need to be tried out by "beta testers" to >> iron out all of t

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Kurt B. Kaiser: > I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly.  It is minimal. > On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar.  Those > who haven't looked at it for awhile may not be aware of the recent > advances made by Tk in native look and feel.  What is ugly?

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

geremy condra wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > > Jesse Noller wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: > >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF > >> >>> funds might help; if every > >> >>> single bug wer

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > geremy condra wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: >> > Jesse Noller wrote: >> >> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: >> >> >>> (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement (was: Removing IDLE from the standard library)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:39:15 +0300, Ezio Melotti wrote: > On 12/07/2010 2.56, "Martin v. L=F6wis" wrote: > >> As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so > >> either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the > >> latter I again say sorry. > > > > I

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement

On 12/07/2010 12:42, R. David Murray wrote: [snip...] E.g.: unicodedata loewis, lemburg, ezio.melotti* would mean "You can add loewis and lemburg to the nosy list and assign the issue to ezio.melotti". Otherwise we can just decide that those I like this suggestion, but

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement (was: Removing IDLE from the standard library)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 01:07:54 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > I've been working from this:- > http://svn.python.org/view/*checkout*/python/branches/py3k/Misc/maintainers.rst > > It strikes me as being so sadly outdated that it's getting less than > useless, or I assume that it's the same old case o

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:13:21 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 11/07/2010 19:40, "Martin v. L=F6wis" wrote: > >>> There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit > >>> bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at > >>> least one of them commit privilege

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 > "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >> >> I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly. It is minimal. >> On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with a simple menubar. Those >> who haven't looked at it for awhile

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:12:10 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > > > Ok, I've just tried IDLE (on py3k) for the first time in years. Under > > Linux, the look is ugly and outdated; it uses some kind of Motif-like > > widgets. > > That's because Linux isn't using Tk 8.5 yet. Debian defaults to Tk 8

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 05:20:49 -0400 >> "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >>> >>> I'm mystified about the comments that the GUI is ugly.  It is minimal. >>> On XP, it looks exactly like an XP window with

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting an optional parameter instead of creating a socket internally

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:06 PM, wrote: > On 03:11 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 13/04/10 04:03, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: >> >>> On 12 Apr, 11:19 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote: >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 >>

Re: [Python-Dev] IRC culture (was: Removing IDLE from the standard library)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 23:51:35 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote: > I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with > animosity from people who "hang out" on the python-dev IRC channel. I > thought it was a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend > going back. I would like

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

If I read the patch correctly it replaces the existing 8.4 support by support for 8.5. That would not be acceptable because it would result in a non-functional version of IDLE for anyone that hasn't installed a custom copy of Tk. Not quite. It doesn't specify a version of Tk to run; it ch

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 11:37, geremy condra wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: Jesse Noller wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra wrote: (This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF funds might help; if every single bug were actively tr

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting an optional parameter instead of creating a socket internally

On 12:30 pm, thebra...@brasse.org wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:06 PM, wrote: It's still little more than an outline. You can see it here: http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/ProtocolPEP And if you're interested in helping, we can figure out a way to do that (you can have edit permissi

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:36:33 +0200 "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > I think Martin has always supported me in some way and I really > > appreciate that. But, maybe because I won commit privileges solely > > based on GSoC work, I felt other developers wouldn't approve my > > commits without previous di

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: >> > re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it should be >> > included in stdlib. >> >> Is "it" re2 or regex? I don't see having 2 regular expression engines >> in the stdlib. >

[Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

Hi I learned about the futures PEP only today. I saw the example on http://code.google.com/p/pythonfutures/ One thing that worries me is that this approach seems to bypass the usual exception handling mechanism of Python. In particular I'm wondering why you have to do things like: if future.e

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Tal Einat wrote: I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I use IDLE every day. It does everything I want an IDE to do, it looks simple and doesn't waste screen real estate like some other IDEs do, it supports proportionally spaced fonts correctly, its syntax coloring

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tal Einat wrote: >> I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. >> >> I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help >> maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005. > > I'm surprised by the amount of intere

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/10 10:16 AM, Michiel Overtoom wrote: Tal Einat wrote: I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library. I use IDLE every day. It does everything I want an IDE to do, it looks simple and doesn't waste screen real estate like some other IDEs do, it supports proportionally

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > +1. Don't be afraid. We are quite good at pointing out mistakes after > the fact :) Just make sure to subscribe to python-checkins and keep an eye out for replies to your commits. Most post hoc review comments come in as replies to the com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Titus von der Malsburg wrote: > This reminds me a lot of how things are done in C but it's not very > pythonic.  Wouldn't it be possible and nicer to raise the exception -- > if there was one inside the asynchronous job -- when the result of the > future is access

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:48:35AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Titus von der Malsburg > That's what actually happens, so you can code it either way That's great! None of the examples I found used the pythonic exception style, that's why I assumed that checking t

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 15:42, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: +1. Don't be afraid. We are quite good at pointing out mistakes after the fact :) Just make sure to subscribe to python-checkins and keep an eye out for replies to your commits. Most post

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's >>> project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to have a fork of >>> IDLE with new features which need to be tried o

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >> Using Tkinter is a major reason that maintaining and further >> developing IDLE is difficult. For example, it took me many hours just >> to get a working Tkinter scrolled frame widget, having had to write it >> from scratch and struggle with the under-documented Canvas widg

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > > > As I recollect, much of what Scherer did in VIDLE related to running > multiple IDLE copies. > > For that reason, the VIDLE changes have to be evaluated carefully to > determine what has already been incorporated. I believe I added a >

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Éric Araujo wrote: >> Plus, is a useful resource >> for core developers with only a little bit of free time to do a >> review. > > Title: “Review Tickets, By Order You Should Review Them In” > I haven’t found a description of

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it should be included in stdlib. Is "it" re2 or regex? I don't see having 2

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:12:10 -0400 > "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: >> > >> > Ok, I've just tried IDLE (on py3k) for the first time in years. Under >> > Linux, the look is ugly and outdated; it uses some kind of Motif-like >> > widgets. >> >> That's because

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, geremy condra wrote: > No offense, but I've been specifically asked not to do demos with IDLE > because it looked 'unprofessional'. Given the constraint of working > within tkinter that may not be something you can work around, but I'm > sure you can see that from a certain pe

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > Also, the current right click edit action on Windows is to only open an > edit window; no shell.  And it uses the subprocess!  So, some of the > comments on this thread are not up to date. > > The reason that bug languished for two years was

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:18:38 +0100 Michael Foord wrote: > On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: > >> > re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if i

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Stephen Hansen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > > > Stephen Hansen wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo > > > wrote: > > > > > > By "never had a problem" do you mean using some of the latest > > versions > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:23:04 -0400 "Kurt B. Kaiser" wrote: > > What distro are you using? Tk8.6 is still in beta. It's Mandriva 2010.1 > Still looks crummy? Bummer. Yes. > Fine, I showed it as an example of the improvement in 8.5. Most people, > I think, are using Windows or Macs. Looks d

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, 2010-07-12 at 16:18 +0100, Michael Foord wrote: > On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > > re2 deliberately omits some features for efficiency reasons, hence is > > not even on the table as a possible replacement for

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > That mailing list (python-checkins) is way too high traffic for many > committers to monitor. I hope people making comments on checkins also email > the committer directly. Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message

Re: [Python-Dev] commit privs

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:23:13 + > Reid Kleckner wrote: >> >> I'm also expecting to be doing more work merging unladen-swallow into >> the py3k-jit branch, so I was wondering if I could get commit >> privileges for that. > > It sounds goo

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Neil Hodgson wrote: >On the main editing screen of IDLE, the most noticeable issue is > that there is no horizontal scroll bar even though the text will move > left when you move the caret beyond the rightmost visible character. That was a design decision by Guido to enco

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Bill Janssen wrote: > Steve, you encouraged me to try it again.  From an xterm on OS X 10.5.8, > it launches fine (long as you know where it is -- > /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/idle). > Seems to work OK for what it is, too.  Sam

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:44 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" >> wrote: FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to h

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 16:52, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Michael Foord wrote: That mailing list (python-checkins) is way too high traffic for many committers to monitor. I hope people making comments on checkins also email the committer directly. Not normally, no -

[Python-Dev] More C API abstraction for user defined types

Hello, Defining a user type which implements number protocol should be treated as a number (long) in PyArg_ParseTuple using "l" format. In getargs.c: case 'l': {/* long int */ long *p = va_arg(*p_va, long *); long ival; if (float_argument_err

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam wrote: > There might be another alternative. > > Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the > standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are possibly importable > to other projects. That restricts changes because a c

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 19:21, Ian Bicking wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam > wrote: There might be another alternative. Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > +1 for fixing it from me, unless any of the other implementations object. > > @Mark: my comment on the tracker issue had an implied "...unless you > really want to" on the end :) Thanks! Patch at http://bugs.python.org/issue9232 Mark ___

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Reid Kleckner wrote: > (Somwhat off-topic): Another pain point students had was accidentally > shadowing stdlib modules, like random. Renaming the file didn't solve > the problem either, because it left behind .pycs, which I had to help > them delete. I feel your

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 03:48:12PM -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > I feel your pain. It seems like every third person who starts playing with > Twisted starts off by making a file called 'twisted.py' and then getting > really confused by the behavior. I would love it if this could be fixed, but

Re: [Python-Dev] maintainers.rst enhancement

On 7/12/2010 7:42 AM, R. David Murray wrote: Another 'enhancement' might be to have a program occasionally email people with the items they are currently signed up for, to encourage editing. -- R. David Murray www.bitdance.com -- Terry Jan Reedy _

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12 2010, geremy condra wrote: > >> No offense, but I've been specifically asked not to do demos with IDLE >> because it looked 'unprofessional'. Given the constraint of working >> within tkinter that may not be something you can

Re: [Python-Dev] More C API abstraction for user defined types

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Petre Galan wrote: > ival should not be resolved through PyLong_AsLong, but through > functionality/interface like PyNumber_Long, thus allowing more diversity in > accessing the PyArg_Parse interfaces. Sounds like a reasonable idea to me, but it needs to be a post

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 13:01, schrieb Tal Einat: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:41 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >>> My point is that I don't think I am exaggerating IDLE's flaws. I'm not >>> saying that it is no longer usable or useful, but I am saying that its >>> current state is not "okay". >> >> So can yo

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the installer just copies forward the association from long ago, before IDLE was available, or at least so u

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: >   Doesn't absolute import help? Not when both modules are at the top level; both acceptably provide the same name. The let's-play-with-it script just wasn't *intended* to be a module. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. "A storm broke loo

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 22:33, Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: Doesn't absolute import help? Not when both modules are at the top level; both acceptably provide the same name. The let's-play-with-it script just wasn't *intended* to be a module.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

On 13 Jul 2010, at 00:59, Titus von der Malsburg wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:48:35AM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Titus von der Malsburg That's what actually happens, so you can code it either way That's great! None of the examples I found used the pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: > On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > >> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. > > On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the > installer just copies forward the association from lon

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: > I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the > script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these > problems. Indeed! And I'd be quite content with such a solution, since I consider

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

>> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >> a committer's email address, > > There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mai

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 22:47, Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these problems. Indeed! And I'd be quite

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:39 AM, Michael Foord wrote: >> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >> a committer's email address, > > There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. That "somewhere" isn't readily available when I hit reply to the checkin email though (for me

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis" : >>> Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to >>> a committer's email address, >> >> There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. > > Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. What about the python-committers mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:47:31 -0400 Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: > > I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the > > script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these > > problems. > > Inde

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens with notepad. Perhaps the installer just

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 22:52, Nick Coghlan wrote: [snip...] so it's usually just a matter of hitting "Reply" and sending the review comment to the list. With a new committer I'll make the effort to cc them directly in case they aren't subscribed yet, but I expect everyone else to be monitor the checkins

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: >> I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the >> script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these >> problems. > > Indeed!  An

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On 12/07/2010 23:05, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the script being executed as __main__ with a different name it

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 12.07.2010 23:57, schrieb Benjamin Peterson: > 2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis" : Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to a committer's email address, >>> >>> There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. >> >> Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable > place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of > committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our standard > dev procedure

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > An explicit error being raised instead would be just as good. Ah, refusing the temptation to guess. So the idea would be, when attempting to import __main__ under it's original name: 3.2 issue a DeprecationWarning 3.3 raise ImportError It

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 5:57 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis": Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to a committer's email address, There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. What a

[Python-Dev] Intended behavior of backlash in raw strings

I'm trying to determine if this is intended behavior: >>> r"\"" '\\"' >>> r'\'' "\\'" Normally, the quote would end the string, but it gets escaped by the preceding '\'. However, the preceding slash is interpreted as 'not a backslash' because of the raw indicator, so it gets left in verbatim. N

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On 12/07/2010 22:59, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:47:31 -0400 Fred Drake wrote: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the script being executed as __main__ with a different nam

Re: [Python-Dev] avoiding accidental shadowing of top-level libraries by the main module

On 12/07/2010 23:23, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Michael Foord wrote: An explicit error being raised instead would be just as good. Ah, refusing the temptation to guess. So the idea would be, when attempting to import __main__ under it's original name: 3.2

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12/07/2010 23:00, Terry Reedy wrote: On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. On my xp machine with 3.1.2, it edit .py opens

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 12 July 2010 23:00, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> >> There should be an "Edit with IDLE" (sic) context menu item. > > I agree, and thought about requesting such, but there is not and never has > been for me that I know of. There is for me. I think what

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Mon, Jul 12 2010, Tal Einat wrote: > I have been maintaining my own fork of IDLE for several years and > manually keeping it in sync with IDLE (this was simple). The > difference is that there was no single major new feature I was working > on, such as the addition of a sub-process in IDLE-fork

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On Jul 12, 2010, at 5:47 PM, Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Michael Foord > wrote: >> I'm sure Brett will love this idea, but if it was impossible to reimport the >> script being executed as __main__ with a different name it would solve these >> problems. > > Indeed! And

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 6:04 PM, Michael Foord wrote: Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our standard dev procedures and nor do I thi

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Am 13.07.2010 00:00, schrieb Terry Reedy: > On 7/12/2010 5:43 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >> Am 12.07.2010 23:21, schrieb Terry Reedy: >>> On 7/12/2010 5:46 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: >>> On Windows, IDLE opens when you right click / edit a .py. Very useful. >>> >>> On my xp machine with 3.1.2

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 07/12/2010 01:21 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ron Adam mailto:r...@ronadam.com>> wrote: There might be another alternative. Both idle and pydoc are applications (are there others?) that are in the standard library. As such, they or parts of them, are

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

On 7/12/2010 2:05 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: What I specifically want right now is Commit Authorization Privilege, especially for IDLE, Not sure who could grant that, but as far as I can: you have it. If I were approved to commit patches directly, then by implication I should be able to ap

[Python-Dev] python-checkins

Le lundi 12 juillet 2010 à 23:04 +0100, Michael Foord a écrit : > Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a > reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the > responsibility of committers to monitor it. You don't have to receive e-mail from it. Just take

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Michael Foord wrote: > On 12/07/2010 15:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Steven D'Aprano >>  wrote: >> >>> >>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote: >>> > > re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it shou

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

Kurt B. Kaiser: >> The tear off menus are ugly as well as being non-standard on all three >> major platforms. > > Well, would you discard them? They can (occasionally) be useful. Yes, I would replace the menus with ones missing the tear line. Most of the GUI toolkits experimented with tear-off

Re: [Python-Dev] python-checkins replies

On 12/07/2010 23:48, Eric Smith wrote: On 7/12/2010 6:04 PM, Michael Foord wrote: Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement [ACCEPTED]

Titus von der Malsburg wrote: None of the examples I found used the pythonic exception style, that's why I assumed that checking the "return value" is the only possibility. Reading the PEP carefully would have helped. :-) I had to read the pep fairly carefully before I noticed this too, so per

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