On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo ggp...@gmail.com wrote:
By never had a problem do you mean using some of the latest versions
? Here, running idle from a mac terminal and trying to type: print
hi crashes when entering the quotation mark.
Huh? Works fine for me. Python 2.6.1,
On 11 Jul, 2010, at 6:23, Guilherme Polo wrote:
2010/7/10 Miki Tebeka miki.teb...@gmail.com:
Hello Tal,
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
-1.
One of the biggest selling points for me when switching to python was the
out of the box working IDE with REPL,
On 11 Jul, 2010, at 1:05, Tal Einat wrote:
Hello,
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help
maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005.
In recent years IDLE has received negligible interest
On 2010-07-11, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
On 11 Jul, 2010, at 1:05, Tal Einat wrote:
Hello,
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
-1
I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help
maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005.
[snip]
I'm
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help
maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005.
I'm surprised by the amount of interest this has raised already. To
answer a few questions that were raised:
In
On 11 Jul, 2010, at 10:57, Tal Einat wrote:
When I ran into bugs I fixed them and submitted a patch. I have also
done so for quite a few bugs reported by others. However, there are
currently several bugs in the tracker which nobody is taking any
notice of. IIRC most of the recent bugs are
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 21:33:28 -0400
Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
The problem here, it seems to me, is that all issues are autoassigned to
an inactive person (KBK) who does not really accept them except once a
year or so. I do not know whether all other commiter are unwilling to
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin jyass...@gmail.com wrote:
While the re2 comparison might be interesting from an abstract
standpoint, it intentionally supports a different regex language from
Python so that it can run faster and use less memory. Since re2 can
never replace
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
On 11 Jul, 2010, at 10:57, Tal Einat wrote:
When I ran into bugs I fixed them and submitted a patch. I have also
done so for quite a few bugs reported by others. However, there are
currently several bugs in the tracker which nobody is
On 7/11/2010 5:19 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote:
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Jeffrey Yasskinjyass...@gmail.com wrote:
While the re2 comparison might be interesting from an abstract
standpoint, it intentionally supports a different regex language from
Python so that it can run faster and use
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:19 PM, anatoly techtonik techto...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin jyass...@gmail.com wrote:
While the re2 comparison might be interesting from an abstract
standpoint, it intentionally supports a different regex language from
Python
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
-1000. From the Python training department, I would like to say that this
would be a horrible idea. Having taught numerous on-site training courses for
Python, the one thing that I've learned is that you never know what
Hey all,
I'm porting some fixes for threading.py that we applied to unladen-swallow:
http://bugs.python.org/issue6643
We ran into these bizarre race conditions involving fork + threads
while running the test suite with a background JIT compilation thread.
I really wish we weren't trying to
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:16 PM, David Beazley d...@dabeaz.com wrote:
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
-1000. From the Python training department, I would like to say that this
would be a horrible idea. Having taught numerous on-site training courses
Senthil Kumaran wrote:
On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 02:32:04PM -0400, Fred Drake wrote:
FTP access also more often reflected the actual file hierarchy of the
machine, so trying that path as a system path is more likely to work
that I'd expect to see for HTTP.
I see the reason. But I doubt if
On 11-7-2010 14:52, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:16 PM, David Beazleyd...@dabeaz.com wrote:
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
-1000. From the Python training department, I would like to say that this
would be a horrible idea. Having
On 7/11/10 5:03 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
The OSX issues al seem to be related to general Tk or Tkinter bugs
on OSX. I know to little about Tk and Tkinter to seriously work on
those.
Ronald,
How about http://bugs.python.org/issue6075? I first submitted that patch
in May '09, and
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Tal Einat wrote:
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help
maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005.
I'm surprised by the amount of interest this has raised
Guido van Rossum wrote:
David Beazley wrote:
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
-1000. From the Python training department, I would like to say that this
would be a horrible idea.
Right. IDLE fits a niche. It's never going to be the world's best
Python
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On 13/04/10 04:03, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
On 12 Apr, 11:19 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote:
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On 04/13/2010 12:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Jesus Cea jcea at jcea.es writes:
PS:
Hello all,
Buggy or not it's quite handy and as I said I use both when programming in
python. To discontinue it is just not a good idea.
Hausburn___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:23:13 +
Reid Kleckner reid.kleck...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm also expecting to be doing more work merging unladen-swallow into
the py3k-jit branch, so I was wondering if I could get commit
privileges for that.
It sounds good to me. Also, thanks for your threading
Am 11.07.2010 15:23, schrieb Reid Kleckner:
I'm also expecting to be doing more work merging unladen-swallow into
the py3k-jit branch, so I was wondering if I could get commit
privileges for that.
Sure -- send your public key to me, and I'll set you up.
Georg
--
Thus spake the Lord: Thou
Tal Einat talei...@gmail.com wrote:
Although several people say that they think having IDLE in the stdlib
is important, the fact is that IDLE is considered quite unimportant by
most of the Python community. Having IDLE in the stdlib may be
convenient for a few people, but most never use it
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Senthil Kumaran orsent...@gmail.com wrote:
I see the reason. But I doubt if this is a reliable approach. Also
when the scheme begins with file:// it should not be confused with
ftp, so I think, that portion of code in urllib which work that way
should be
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 09:28, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:23:13 +
Reid Kleckner reid.kleck...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm also expecting to be doing more work merging unladen-swallow into
the py3k-jit branch, so I was wondering if I could get commit
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
much since 2005 despite my efforts. For example, see
http://bugs.python.org/issue1529142, where
There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit
bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at
least one of them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been
done by people who aren't otherwise contributing to the core, and we
surely should
On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Tal Einat wrote:
Most of the responses up to this point have been strongly against my
proposal. The main reason given is that it is nice to have a graphical
IDE supported out-of-the-box with almost any Python installation. This
is especially important for novice
On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
much since 2005 despite my efforts. For
Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote:
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Senthil Kumaran orsent...@gmail.com wro=
te:
I see the reason. But I doubt if this is a reliable approach. =A0Also
when the scheme begins with file:// it should not be confused with
ftp, so I think, that portion of code in
On 03:11 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote:
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On 13/04/10 04:03, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
On 12 Apr, 11:19 pm, j...@jcea.es wrote:
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On 04/13/2010 12:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Jesus Cea jcea at jcea.es
(This seems to me like an area where a judicious application of PSF
funds might help; if every single bug were actively triaged and
responded to, even if it weren't reviewed, and patch contributors were
directed to take specific steps to elicit a response or a review, the
fact that patch
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400
Glyph Lefkowitz gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and
hopefully that will help in this particular area. But, as I recall, at the
last language summit there was quite a bit of
discussion about
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 05:22:28PM +0300, Tal Einat wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
much since 2005 despite my efforts.
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz gl...@twistedmatrix.com
wrote:
On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote:
I can understand that this is frustrating, but please understand that
this is not specific to your patches, or to IDLE. Many other patches on
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 13:30, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400, Glyph Lefkowitz gl...@twistedmatrix.com
wrote:
On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote:
I can understand that this is frustrating, but please understand that
this is
On 11/07/2010 20:47, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 05:22:28PM +0300, Tal Einat wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't
Am 11.07.2010 20:59, schrieb Glyph Lefkowitz:
On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 6:30 AM, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote:
So, this is indeed an area where improvement is theoretically possible,
but I'm not sure how we get from here to there. As you say, one option is
for the PSF to fund people to do it somehow. (I'd be happy to be one
Perhaps there are two separable issues. Many of us see it as extremely
important that some IDLE be part of the standard Python distribution
(batteries included), for the reasons that several people have given.
However, there is merit to the suggestion to have an active separate
development, with
In the 2009 Google Summer of Code I was the mentor for a Brazilian
student, Guilherme Polo, who completed and extended important
improvements to IDLE made during the previous year by David Scherer.
Given the somewhat official nature of this work, I assumed that these
needed improvements would
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
much since 2005 despite my efforts. For example, see
I am aware of the situation with regard to issue reviews, but I think
with IDLE there is more going on. In other parts of the Python
codebase, a workaround for a major usability issue wouldn't normally
have taken nearly three years to resolve after a working patch was
submitted.
Oh sure it
2010/7/11 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de:
In the 2009 Google Summer of Code I was the mentor for a Brazilian
student, Guilherme Polo, who completed and extended important
improvements to IDLE made during the previous year by David Scherer.
Given the somewhat official nature of this work, I
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Tal Einat wrote:
The people who are actually *in* those environments seem to disagree with
you :). I think you underestimate the difficulty of getting software
installed and overestimate the demands of new Python users and students.
I think Martin has always supported me in some way and I really
appreciate that. But, maybe because I won commit privileges solely
based on GSoC work, I felt other developers wouldn't approve my
commits without previous discussion and that is the major reason for
not committing most of my
On 07/10/2010 06:05 PM, Tal Einat wrote:
Hello,
I would like to propose removing IDLE from the standard library.
I have been using IDLE since 2002 and have been doing my best to help
maintain and further develop IDLE since 2005.
In recent years IDLE has received negligible interest and
Guilherme Polo wrote:
2010/7/11 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de:
In the 2009 Google Summer of Code I was the mentor for a Brazilian
student, Guilherme Polo, who completed and extended important
improvements to IDLE made during the previous year by David Scherer.
Given the somewhat official
My point is that I don't think I am exaggerating IDLE's flaws. I'm not
saying that it is no longer usable or useful, but I am saying that its
current state is not okay.
So can you produce a list of patches that you think can be accepted as-is?
Preferably, make to lists: bug fixes, and new
FWIW this is why I started IDLE-Spoon (well, continued Noam Raphael's
project of the same name, in a sense). The idea was to have a fork of
IDLE with new features which need to be tried out by beta testers to
iron out all of the glitches before making it into the main version,
like IDLE-fork
On 11/07/2010 19:59, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
On 11/07/2010 23:18, Tal Einat wrote:
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Initially (five years ago!) I tried to overcome these issues by
improving IDLE, solving problems and adding a few key features.
Without going into details, suffice to say that IDLE hasn't improved
much since 2005 despite my efforts.
2010/7/11 Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk:
I have been attempting to fill this hole and have been faced with animosity
from people who hang out on the python-dev IRC channel. I thought it was
a complete and utter waste of space, so I don't intend going back. I would
like things fixed,
On 11/07/2010 19:40, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit
bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at
least one of them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been
done by people who aren't otherwise
2010/7/11 Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk:
I can understand your frustration, but in response to an appeal from Terry
Reedy some weeks back on c.l.py I've done a substantial amount of work in
the last couple of weeks to clear outstanding issues, sadly IDLE just sits
in the pile. Ow, but
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:01:07 am Steve Holden wrote:
My own inclination would be to regard the current treatment of file:
as a bug (albeit one not worth fixing on 2.x).
...
Presumably a
hostname in such a URI would require that some host-specific protocol
be used (but this should be an
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote:
re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it should be
included in stdlib.
Is it re2 or regex? I don't see having 2 regular expression engines
in the stdlib.
There's precedence though... the old regex engine and the new re engine
On Jul 11, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Unfortunately, it's often not clear what the submitter wants: does she
want to help, or want to get help? For a bug report, I often post a
message can you provide a patch?, but sometimes, it isn't that clear.
Perhaps this is the one area
On Jul 11, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Honestly, how would you feel as a committer to have scores of issues assigned
to you -- as a consequence of speedy triage -- knowing that you have to invest
potentially hours of volunteer time into them, while the person doing the
triaging is
Stephen Hansen wrote:
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Guilherme Polo ggp...@gmail.com
mailto:ggp...@gmail.com wrote:
By never had a problem do you mean using some of the latest versions
? Here, running idle from a mac terminal and trying to type: print
hi crashes when entering
IIRC Terry Reedy has already volunteered to do this
Hmm. I don't recall that happening.
As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so
either the list is wrong, or I've had finger problems. If it's the
latter I again say sorry.
I see. What copy have you been
On 12/07/2010 00:56, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
IIRC Terry Reedy has already volunteered to do this
Apologies to Terry if this is incorrect, but I believe this to be the case.
Hmm. I don't recall that happening.
As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst list, so
either
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Martin,
Thanks for your response.
IIRC Terry Reedy has already volunteered to do this, if I'm incorrect I'll
apologise right now to both of you.
As for assigning bugs, I've been told to use the maintainer.rst
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400
Glyph Lefkowitz gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit access, and
hopefully that will help in this particular area. But, as I
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra debat...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400
Glyph Lefkowitz gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I see. What copy have you been using specifically? I think I need to
remove myself from these lists.
Regards,
Martin
Hi Martin,
Again thanks for the response.
I've been working from this:-
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 09:37:22 pm Eric Smith wrote:
re2 comparison is interesting from the point of if it should be
included in stdlib.
Is it re2 or regex? I don't see having 2 regular expression engines
in the
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:22 PM, geremy condra debat...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:59:14 -0400
Glyph Lefkowitz gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
Guido proposes to give someone interested in IDLE commit
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
[snip]
Great points Jesse! Since I really don't have the time or expertise to
make a judgment on this PEP, I hereby appoint you chair of the
approval process for this PEP. That basically means that when you
think it's
2010/7/11 Jesse Noller jnol...@gmail.com:
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
[snip]
Great points Jesse! Since I really don't have the time or expertise to
make a judgment on this PEP, I hereby appoint you chair of the
approval process for this PEP. That
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2010/7/11 Jesse Noller jnol...@gmail.com:
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
[snip]
Great points Jesse! Since I really don't have the time or expertise to
make a judgment on
2010/7/11 Jesse Noller jnol...@gmail.com:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org
wrote:
2010/7/11 Jesse Noller jnol...@gmail.com:
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
[snip]
Great points Jesse! Since I really don't have
[Terry Reedy]
I had considered the possibility of option A for 2.7 and A C for 3.2. But
see below.
Since posting, I did an experiment with a 700 char paragraph of text (the
summary from the post) compared to an 'edited' version. I did the
comparision with and without the current heuristic.
On the notion that IDLE is fatally flawed and is driving away potential
users of Python (to put the statements in their most extreme form):
It seems that there are (at least) two very different communities people
have in mind. I can appreciate that highly expert programmers may find IDLE
On 7/11/2010 2:40 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Guido
There clearly are *some* folks who care enough about IDLE to submit
bug reports and fixes. How about we empower these people by giving at
least one of them commit privileges? IDLE development has often been
done by people who aren't otherwise
On 11 Jul, 2010, at 15:24, Kevin Walzer wrote:
On 7/11/10 5:03 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
The OSX issues al seem to be related to general Tk or Tkinter bugs
on OSX. I know to little about Tk and Tkinter to seriously work on
those.
Ronald,
How about
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