Re: [Python-Dev] PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY env var

2015-05-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 08.05.2015 11:36, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 8 May 2015 6:52 pm, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 07.05.2015 04:30, Nick Coghlan wrote: Can we please make the monkeypatch a regular part of Python's site.py which can enabled via an environment variable, say export PYTHONHTTPSVERIFY=0

Re: [Python-Dev] Clarification of PEP 476 opting out section

2015-04-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.04.2015 02:33, Nick Coghlan wrote: Hi folks, This is just a note to highlight the fact that I tweaked the Opting out section in PEP 476 based on various discussions I've had over the past few months: https://hg.python.org/peps/rev/dfd96ee9d6a8 The notable changes: * the example

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages

2015-04-22 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 21.04.2015 18:08, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 12:33 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 21.04.2015 05:37, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Jack Diederich jackd...@gmail.com wrote: * Uploading stubs for other people's code is a terrible

Re: [Python-Dev] typeshed for 3rd party packages (was: Type hints -- a mediocre programmer's reaction)

2015-04-21 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 21.04.2015 05:37, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Jack Diederich jackd...@gmail.com wrote: * Uploading stubs for other people's code is a terrible idea. Who do I contact when I update the interface to my library? The random Joe who helped by uploading annotations

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.04.2015 19:31, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Am 17.04.15 um 00:46 schrieb M.-A. Lemburg: I had asked the PSF for a StartSSL certificate when the previous certificate expired, and the PSF was not able to provide one. After waiting several weeks for the PSF to provide the certificate, Kurt

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-16 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 16.04.2015 21:34, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Am 04.04.15 um 21:54 schrieb M.-A. Lemburg: FWIW: The PSF mostly uses StartSSL nowadays and they also support code signing certificates. Given that this option is a lot cheaper than Verisign, I think we should switch, unless there are significant

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.04.2015 02:49, Donald Stufft wrote: On Apr 3, 2015, at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 04.04.2015 00:14, Steve Dower wrote: The thing is, that's exactly the same goodness as Authenticode gives, except everyone gets that for free and meanwhile you're the only one who

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.04.2015 16:41, Steve Dower wrote: Relying only on Authenticode for Windows installers would result in a break in technology w/r to the downloads we make available for Python, since all other files are (usually) GPG signed This is the point of this discussion. I'm willing to make such

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
/ For Anaconda (the MS Azure chosen python distribution): * http://docs.continuum.io/anaconda/install.html#windows-install ... These should/could/are checking GPG signatures for Windows packages downstream. http://www.scipy.org/install.html On Apr 3, 2015 5:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.04.2015 21:49, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: On Sat, Apr 4, 2015, at 03:35 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 04.04.2015 21:02, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: For the record, that is a Symantec/Verisign code signing certificate. We paid $1123 for it last April. It expires April 2017. If you don't switch

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-03 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 03.04.2015 11:56, Larry Hastings wrote: My Windows development days are firmly behind me. So I don't really have an opinion here. So I put it to you, Windows Python developers: do you care about GnuPG signatures on Windows-specific files? Or do you not care? Regardless of target

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-03 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 03.04.2015 19:35, Steve Dower wrote: My Windows development days are firmly behind me. So I don't really have an opinion here. So I put it to you, Windows Python developers: do you care about GnuPG signatures on Windows-specific files? Or do you not care? The later replies seem to

Re: [Python-Dev] [python-committers] Do we need to sign Windows files with GnuPG?

2015-04-03 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.04.2015 00:14, Steve Dower wrote: The thing is, that's exactly the same goodness as Authenticode gives, except everyone gets that for free and meanwhile you're the only one who has admitted to using GPG on Windows :) Basically, what I want to hear is that GPG sigs provide

Re: [Python-Dev] Encoding of PyFrameObject members

2015-02-06 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 06.02.2015 00:27, Francis Giraldeau wrote: I need to access frame members from within a signal handler for tracing purpose. My first attempt to access co_filename was like this (omitting error checking): PyFrameObject *frame = PyEval_GetFrame(); PyObject *ob =

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 24.01.2015 21:23, Zachary Ware wrote: On Saturday, January 24, 2015, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 5:45:28 PM Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','g...@krypto.org'); wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 11:20:02 AM M.-A. Lemburg m

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-23 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.01.2015 19:48, Matthias Klose wrote: On 01/23/2015 06:30 PM, Cyd Haselton wrote: Related to my earlier question regarding building Python on Android and an undefined reference to dlopen error...I have the following question: Is it possible to build and install Python without having to

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-23 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.01.2015 21:56, Cyd Haselton wrote: On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:19 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 23.01.2015 19:48, Matthias Klose wrote: On 01/23/2015 06:30 PM, Cyd Haselton wrote: Related to my earlier question regarding building Python on Android and an undefined reference

Re: [Python-Dev] Compile Python on Windows (OpenSSL)

2015-01-14 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 13.01.2015 23:50, Victor Stinner wrote: 2015-01-13 23:46 GMT+01:00 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com: Just a note of caution: for older preview releases of VS the only way to get back to a clean system was to reinstall Windows. Does it mean that it's not possible to have VS 2008 and VS 2015

Re: [Python-Dev] Compile Python on Windows (OpenSSL)

2015-01-13 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 13.01.2015 23:42, Brian Curtin wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-01-13 23:18 GMT+01:00 Steve Dower steve.do...@microsoft.com: Technically, Python 3.5 requires Visual Studio 2015 For me, it's *very* difficult to find how to install

Re: [Python-Dev] Compile Python on Windows (OpenSSL)

2015-01-13 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 13.01.2015 23:04, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, To compile Python on Windows, there are a few information in the Developer Guide: https://docs.python.org/devguide/setup.html#windows-compiling Python 3.5 now requires Visual Studio 2010 *SP1*, or newer Visual Studio:

Re: [Python-Dev] Redirection of ar.pycon.org

2014-12-18 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Hi Facunda, you should either write to webmas...@pycon.org, the conference ML or me directly, since I'm managing these the pycon.org subdomains. On Thu, Dec 18, 2014, at 10:59, Facundo Batista wrote: Hi! Don't remember where to ask for changing the redirection of that domain name. Somebody

[Python-Dev] hg.python.org cloning troubles after Sep 13 changes

2014-11-07 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Just FYI (and for the archives), to perhaps save someone a few minutes: I've been hitting a problem with hg pull and hg clone on a box recently and after staring at it for a while, finally found the cause. Here's what hg printed: HG-Python/cpython hg pull -u -b 2.7 abort: no suitable response

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (2.7): #22650: test suite: load Unicode test data files from www.pythontest.net

2014-11-06 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 06.11.2014 15:39, Brett Cannon wrote: What is pythontest.net? Is it something we control, and if so how do we add things to it for tests? Did I miss an email on python-dev or python-committers about this? pythontest.net is a domain owned by the PSF and run by Donald Stufft and Benjamin (I

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

2014-10-26 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 26.10.2014 00:14, Ned Deily wrote: In article m28uk4wxod@valheru.db3l.homeip.net, David Bolen db3l@gmail.com wrote: David Bolen db3l@gmail.com writes: which appears to die mid-stream while receiving the manifests. So I'm sort of hoping there might be some record

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

2014-10-10 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 10.10.2014 11:26, Larry Hastings wrote: On 10/10/2014 08:07 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 10 October 2014 01:29, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote: What about the Python stable ABI? Would it be broken if we use a different compiler? What about third party Python extensions?

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

2014-09-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 24.09.2014 03:48, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 24 September 2014 03:05, Steve Dower steve.do...@microsoft.com wrote: Larry Hastings wrote: On 09/19/2014 03:31 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: I think we need a Python 3.5 Release Schedule PEP. Just checked it in as PEP 478. It should show up here in a

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.5 release schedule PEP

2014-09-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Thanks for the insights, Steve. More below... On 24.09.2014 18:52, Steve Dower wrote: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: I'd rather be conservative here and wait for another Python release before switching VC versions. There are a few important questions that need answers before we can consider a new VC

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-09-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 01.09.2014 10:09, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 1 September 2014 17:13, Christian Heimes christ...@python.org wrote: On 01.09.2014 08:44, Nick Coghlan wrote: Yes, it would have exactly the same security failure modes as sitecustomize, except it would only fire if the application imported the ssl

Re: [Python-Dev] surrogatepass - she's a witch, burn 'er! [was: Cleaning up ...]

2014-08-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.08.2014 01:37, Greg Ewing wrote: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: we needed a way to make sure that Python 3 also optionally supports working with lone surrogates in such UTF-8 streams (nowadays called CESU-8: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CESU-8). I don't think CESU-8 is the same thing

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-08-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.08.2014 04:44, Alex Gaynor wrote: Thanks for the rapid feedback everyone! I want to summarize the action items and discussion points that have come up so far: To add to the PEP: * Emit a warning in 3.4.next for cases that would raise a Exception in 3.5 * Clearly state that the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-08-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.08.2014 12:40, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:19:11 +0200 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: To add to the PEP: * Emit a warning in 3.4.next for cases that would raise a Exception in 3.5 * Clearly state that the existing OpenSSL environment variables

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-08-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.08.2014 12:55, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:46:47 +0200 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: The change is to the OpenSSL API, not the OpenSSL lib. By setting the variable you enable a few special calls to the config loader functions in OpenSSL when calling

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-08-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.08.2014 15:32, R. David Murray wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 14:03:57 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 30.08.2014 12:55, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:46:47 +0200 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: That use case should be served with the SSL_CERT_DIR

Re: [Python-Dev] surrogatepass - she's a witch, burn 'er! [was: Cleaning up ...]

2014-08-29 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 29.08.2014 02:41, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: In the process of booking up for my other post in this thread, I noticed the 'surrogatepass' handler. Is there a real use case for the 'surrogatepass' error handler? It seems like a horrible break in the abstraction. IMHO, if there's a need,

Re: [Python-Dev] surrogatepass - she's a witch, burn 'er! [was: Cleaning up ...]

2014-08-29 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 29.08.2014 13:22, Isaac Morland wrote: On Fri, 29 Aug 2014, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 29.08.2014 02:41, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Since Python allows working with lone surrogates in Unicode (they are valid code points) and we're using UTF-8 for marshal, we needed a way to make sure

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-08-29 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 29.08.2014 21:47, Alex Gaynor wrote: Hi all, I've just submitted PEP 476, on enabling certificate validation by default for HTTPS clients in Python. Please have a look and let me know what you think. PEP text follows. Thanks for the PEP. I think this is generally a good idea, but some

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 476: Enabling certificate validation by default!

2014-08-29 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 29.08.2014 23:11, Donald Stufft wrote: Sorry I was on my phone and didn’t get to fully reply to this. On Aug 29, 2014, at 4:00 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 29.08.2014 21:47, Alex Gaynor wrote: Hi all, I've just submitted PEP 476, on enabling certificate validation

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.06.2014 18:09, Donald Stufft wrote: On Jun 23, 2014, at 2:09 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: * Should we make use of the potential breakage with 2.7.10 to introduce a new Windows compiler version for Python 2.7 ? Assuming it is a good idea to continue producing

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-23 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.06.2014 22:20, Donald Stufft wrote: On Jun 23, 2014, at 3:27 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 23.06.2014 18:09, Donald Stufft wrote: On Jun 23, 2014, at 2:09 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: * Should we make use of the potential breakage with 2.7.10

[Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-21 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
With PEP 466 and the constant flow of OpenSSL security fixes which are currently being handled via Python patch level releases, we will soon reach 2.7.10 and quickly go beyond that (also see http://bugs.python.org/issue21308). This opens up a potential backwards incompatibility with existing

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-21 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 21.06.2014 12:51, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 21 June 2014 20:27, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: With PEP 466 and the constant flow of OpenSSL security fixes which are currently being handled via Python patch level releases, we will soon reach 2.7.10 and quickly go beyond that (also see

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 patch levels turning two digit

2014-06-21 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 21.06.2014 22:34, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:57 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 21.06.2014 12:51, Nick Coghlan wrote: Such code has an easy fix available, though, as sys.version_info has existed since 2.0, and handles two digit micro releases just fine

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 21671: CVE-2014-0224 OpenSSL upgrade to 1.0.1h on Windows required

2014-06-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.06.2014 20:27, Steve Dower wrote: Yates, Andy (CS Houston, TX) wrote: Python Dev, Andy here. I have a Windows product based on Python and I'm getting hammered to release a version that includes the fix in OpenSSL 1.0.1h. My product is built on a Windows system using Python installed

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 21671: CVE-2014-0224 OpenSSL upgrade to 1.0.1h on Windows required

2014-06-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.06.2014 22:36, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le 17/06/2014 14:55, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : Alternatively, you could make use of our pyOpenSSL distribution, which includes pyOpenSSL and the OpenSSL libs (also for Windows): http://www.egenix.com/products/python/pyOpenSSL/ We created

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 06.06.2014 20:25, Brian Curtin wrote: On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Steve Dower steve.do...@microsoft.com wrote: Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Steve Dower steve.do...@microsoft.com wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 06.06.2014 20:49, Brian Curtin wrote: On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:41 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 06.06.2014 20:25, Brian Curtin wrote: On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:19 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Steve Dower steve.do...@microsoft.com

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-09 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 08.05.2014 23:22, Donald Stufft wrote: On a personal note, I'm uncomfortable with the way this change is perceived as a case of *pip* enforcing a behaviour that the pip developers feel should be required. I actually don't like this change particularly. So having pip implement the

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-09 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 09.05.2014 13:44, Donald Stufft wrote: On May 9, 2014, at 4:12 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: Donald: I don't think anyone is arguing that hosting packages on PyPI is a bad thing and PyPI as a service has gotten a lot better than it was a few years ago. Didn’t mean to imply

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-09 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 09.05.2014 17:39, Donald Stufft wrote: On May 9, 2014, at 9:58 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 09.05.2014 13:44, Donald Stufft wrote: On May 9, 2014, at 4:12 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: Donald: I don't think anyone is arguing that hosting packages on PyPI

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Well, to be fair and leaving aside uptime concerns and the general desire to always install packages from some server instead of a safe and trusted local directory (probably too obvious ;-), it would certainly be possible to add support for trusted externally hosted packages. However, for some

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 08.05.2014 15:58, Donald Stufft wrote: On May 8, 2014, at 9:39 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: Well, to be fair and leaving aside uptime concerns and the general desire to always install packages from some server instead of a safe and trusted local directory (probably too

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 08.05.2014 15:57, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 8 May 2014 23:39, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: However, for some reason there's a strong resistance against doing this, which I frankly don't understand. Because we're taking responsibility for the end-to-end user experience of PyPI

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 08.05.2014 16:42, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 08.05.2014 15:58, Donald Stufft wrote: On May 8, 2014, at 9:39 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: Well, to be fair and leaving aside uptime concerns and the general desire to always install packages from some server instead of a safe

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-20 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 18.04.2014 23:03, Ezio Melotti wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 1:34:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote: Hi. On 14.4.2014. 23:51, Brett Cannon wrote: Now the question is whether the

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-15 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 15.04.2014 09:45, Chris Angelico wrote: On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote: In my work environment (Python 2.7.2, all the heavy lifting done in C++), startup costs are dominated by dynamic linking of all our C++ libraries and their Boost wrappers: Sure,

Re: [Python-Dev] Windows installers and OpenSSL

2014-04-10 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 11.04.2014 03:15, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 10 Apr 2014 18:55, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 10, 2014, at 14:50, Gregory P. Smith wrote: Yep. All binary Python distributions that bundle SSL support need updating. But... what MRAB said. We also *likely* have SSL

Re: [Python-Dev] Negative timedelta strings

2014-04-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
n 31.03.2014 21:09, Chris Barker wrote: On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Fred Drake f...@fdrake.net wrote: On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: ISO 8601 doesn't seem to define a representation for negative durations, though, so it wouldn't solve the

Re: [Python-Dev] Negative timedelta strings

2014-04-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 02.04.2014 15:04, Skip Montanaro wrote: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 7:52 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: print now() + RelativeDateTime(months=+1, day=1) 2014-05-01 14:49:05.83 I find this sort date arithmetic unintuitive, though I'm at a loss to come up with better logic than you

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 2): Network security enhancements for Python 2.7

2014-03-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.03.2014 08:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: Open Questions == * What are the risks associated with allowing OpenSSL to be updated to new feature versions in the Windows and Mac OS X binary installers for maintenance releases? Currently we just upgrade to the appropriate

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 2): Network security enhancements for Python 2.7

2014-03-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 24.03.2014 13:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le 24/03/2014 10:10, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : On 23.03.2014 08:07, Nick Coghlan wrote: Open Questions == * What are the risks associated with allowing OpenSSL to be updated to new feature versions in the Windows and Mac OS X binary

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 2): Network security enhancements for Python 2.7

2014-03-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 24.03.2014 18:23, Ned Deily wrote: In article cadisq7f0cnzrfm4i8xj13j+slq63uynqkdo12czm5yeq3bf...@mail.gmail.com, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: You also reminded me that I need to dig around for and reference Ned's email about the status of OS X and reference that (OpenSSL

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 22.03.2014 22:11, Nick Coghlan wrote: PEP: 466 Title: Network Security Enhancement Exception for All Branches +1 -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Mar 22 2014) Python Projects, Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-18 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 18.02.2014 05:25, Tim Peters wrote: [M.-A. Lemburg] Now, the choice to have None compare less than all other objects may have been arbitrary, but IMO it was a good, consistent and useful choice. Possibly useful for some apps, sure. Not for my apps. For example, when I initialize

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 15.02.2014 07:03, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: M.-A. Lemburg writes: IMO, it was a mistake to have None return a TypeError in comparisons, since it makes many typical data operations fail, e.g. I don't understand this statement. The theory is that they *should* fail

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 12:23, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: On 17 February 2014 11:14, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 15.02.2014 07:03, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: M.-A. Lemburg writes: IMO, it was a mistake to have None return a TypeError in comparisons, since it makes many typical data

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 12:47, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 17.02.14 13:14, M.-A. Lemburg написав(ла): Here's a particularly nasty case: l = [(1, None), (2, None)] l.sort() l [(1, None), (2, None)] l = [(1, None), (2, None), (3, 4)] l.sort() l [(1, None), (2, None), (3, 4)] l = [(1, None), (2, None

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 12:49, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: On 17 February 2014 11:43, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 17.02.2014 12:23, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: On 17 February 2014 11:14, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 15.02.2014 07:03, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: M.-A. Lemburg writes

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 13:12, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 17 Feb 2014 21:15, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 15.02.2014 07:03, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: M.-A. Lemburg writes: IMO, it was a mistake to have None return a TypeError in comparisons, since it makes many typical data operations

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 13:19, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 17.02.14 13:56, M.-A. Lemburg написав(ла): Yes, but that's not the point. Unlike strings or other mixed types that you cannot compare, None is used as placeholder in data processing as special value to mean no value available. Isn't float('nan

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 14:29, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: On 17 February 2014 12:30, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 17.02.2014 13:19, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 17.02.14 13:56, M.-A. Lemburg написав(ла): Yes, but that's not the point. Unlike strings or other mixed types that you cannot compare

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 15:38, Jon Ribbens wrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 12:43:25PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: This doesn't only apply to numeric comparisons. In Python 2 you can compare None with any kind of object and it always sorts first, No you can't. See http://bugs.python.org/issue1673405

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-17 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 17.02.2014 21:12, Tim Peters wrote: [...] Guido wanted to drop all the arbitrary but consistent mixed-type comparison crud for Python 3. Nothing special about None in that. As already noted, the various `datetime` types were the first to experiment with implementing full blown

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-14 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 14.02.2014 11:20, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:13:43 +1000 Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 February 2014 20:02, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:46:50 +0100 Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: Sending this to python-dev as

Re: [Python-Dev] Enable Hostname and Certificate Chain Validation

2014-01-22 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 22.01.2014 11:30, Donald Stufft wrote: I would like to propose that a backwards incompatible change be made to Python to make verification of hostname and certificate chain the default instead of requiring it to be opt in. Python 3.4 has made great strides in making it easier for

Re: [Python-Dev] Enable Hostname and Certificate Chain Validation

2014-01-22 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 22.01.2014 11:56, Donald Stufft wrote: On Jan 22, 2014, at 5:51 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 22.01.2014 11:30, Donald Stufft wrote: I would like to propose that a backwards incompatible change be made to Python to make verification of hostname and certificate chain

Re: [Python-Dev] Enable Hostname and Certificate Chain Validation

2014-01-22 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 22.01.2014 12:36, Donald Stufft wrote: On Jan 22, 2014, at 6:30 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: The change would also disable all services using self-signed certificates which are very common in internal networks and for ad-hoc setups. Many routers and other devices use self

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460 reboot

2014-01-13 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 13.01.2014 07:51, Nick Coghlan wrote: [Using a new asciistr type] The key thing that the text model change in Python 3 enabled is for us to use the type system to *help* with managing the complexity of dealing with text encodings. We've got a long way with just the two pure types, and no

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-11 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 11.01.2014 14:54, Georg Brandl wrote: Am 11.01.2014 14:49, schrieb Georg Brandl: Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen: I mean, its not like the bytes type lacks knowledge of the subset of bytes that happen to be 7-bit ascii-compatible and can't perform text-ish operations on

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-11 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 11.01.2014 16:34, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 12 January 2014 01:15, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 11.01.2014 14:54, Georg Brandl wrote: Am 11.01.2014 14:49, schrieb Georg Brandl: Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen: I mean, its not like the bytes type lacks knowledge

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 complexity

2014-01-10 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 09.01.2014 22:45, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:36:05 -0800 Chris Barker chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: Some folks have suggested using latin-1 (or other 8-bit encoding) -- is that guaranteed to work with any binary data, and round-trip accurately? Yes, it is. Just a word

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 06.01.2014 14:24, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, bytes % args and bytes.format(args) are requested by Mercurial and Twisted projects. The issue #3982 was stuck because nobody proposed a complete definition of the new features. Here is a try as a PEP. The PEP is a draft with open questions.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP process entry point and ill fated initiatives

2013-11-29 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 29.11.2013 16:25, Kristján Valur Jónsson wrote: How about acknowledging that these waters are dark and murky and help making things better? Well, how about? If Anatoly has a concrete proposal, surely he can propose a patch to make things better. Which is what he did. And instead of

Re: [Python-Dev] Add transform() and untranform() methods

2013-11-16 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 16.11.2013 01:47, Victor Stinner wrote: Adding transform()/untransform() method to bytes and str is a non trivial change and not everybody likes them. Anyway, it's too late for Python 3.4. Just to clarify: I still like the idea of adding those methods. I just don't see what this addition

Re: [Python-Dev] What's the story on Py_FrozenMain?

2013-11-16 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 16.11.2013 18:48, Eric Snow wrote: While looking at something unrelated, I happened to peek at Python/frozenmain.c and found Py_FrozenMain(). I kind of get the idea of it, but am curious what motivated the addition and who might be using it. The function is not documented and doesn't have

Re: [Python-Dev] Add transform() and untranform() methods

2013-11-15 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 15.11.2013 08:13, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 15 November 2013 11:10, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 11/14/2013 5:32 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: I don't like the functions codecs.encode() and codecs.decode() because the type of the result depends on the encoding (second parameter). We

Re: [Python-Dev] Add transform() and untranform() methods

2013-11-15 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 15.11.2013 12:45, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 15 November 2013 20:33, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:28:35 +1100 Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: One benefit is: import codecs codec = get_name_of_compression_codec() result = codecs.encode(data,

Re: [Python-Dev] Restoring the aliases for the non-Unicode codecs

2013-11-13 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 13.11.2013 15:29, Nick Coghlan wrote: Back in Python 3.2, the non-Unicode codecs were restored to the standard library, but without the associated aliases (mostly due to some thoroughly confusing error messages when they were mistakenly used with the Unicode encoding convenience methods).

Re: [Python-Dev] [Infrastructure] bugs.python.org not reachable in IPv6?

2013-11-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.11.2013 16:10, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2013/11/4 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com: On 04.11.2013 11:01, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, bugs.python.org is still not responding on IPv6. Can someone please remove the record from python.org DNS, or fix the IPv6 configuration? It's

Re: [Python-Dev] [Infrastructure] bugs.python.org not reachable in IPv6?

2013-11-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.11.2013 11:01, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, bugs.python.org is still not responding on IPv6. Can someone please remove the record from python.org DNS, or fix the IPv6 configuration? It's an issue on my PC because my PC has IPv6 address and so it cannot reach bugs.python.org. wget

Re: [Python-Dev] [Infrastructure] bugs.python.org not reachable in IPv6?

2013-11-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.11.2013 17:05, R. David Murray wrote: On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 16:34:46 +0100, Antoine Pitrou anto...@python.org wrote: On lun., 2013-11-04 at 16:09 +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 04.11.2013 11:01, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, bugs.python.org is still not responding on IPv6. Can someone please

Re: [Python-Dev] [Infrastructure] bugs.python.org not reachable in IPv6?

2013-11-04 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 04.11.2013 20:54, Victor Stinner wrote: 2013/11/4 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com: Some things to try on the box: * ping6 2001:888:2000:d::a2 (that's python.org) $ ping6 -c 4 2001:888:2000:d::a2 PING 2001:888:2000:d::a2(2001:888:2000:d::a2) 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 2001:888:2000:d::a2

Re: [Python-Dev] Obsoleted RFCs

2013-06-08 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 08.06.2013 09:45, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: Here is attached a list of obsoleted RFCs referred in the *.rst, *.txt, *.py, *.c and *.h files. I think it would be worthwhile to update the source code and documentation for more modern RFCs. Thanks for creating such a list. BTW: What is

Re: [Python-Dev] performance testing recommendations in devguide

2013-05-29 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 29.05.2013 21:19, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Hi, On Wed, 29 May 2013 21:59:21 +0300 Carlos Nepomuceno carlosnepomuc...@outlook.com wrote: [1] pybench - run the standard Python PyBench benchmark suite. This is considered an unreliable, unrepresentative benchmark; do not base decisions

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7.5 baking

2013-05-15 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 12.05.2013 06:03, Benjamin Peterson wrote: The long anticipated emergency 2.7.5 release has now been tagged. It will be publicly announced as binaries arrive. Originally, I was just going to cherrypick regression fixes onto the 2.7.4 release and release those as 2.7.5. I started to this

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7.5 baking

2013-05-15 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 15.05.2013 19:11, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2013/5/15 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com: On 12.05.2013 06:03, Benjamin Peterson wrote: The long anticipated emergency 2.7.5 release has now been tagged. It will be publicly announced as binaries arrive. Originally, I was just going to cherrypick

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting a list of registered codecs

2013-04-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.04.2013 11:15, Paul Moore wrote: Before I raise a bug for this, can someone confirm if I've simply missed something? I don't see any way, either in the docs or in the helpstrings from the codecs, of listing the codecs that have been registered. FWIW, I picked this up when I was looking

Re: [Python-Dev] Getting a list of registered codecs

2013-04-30 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 30.04.2013 11:52, Paul Moore wrote: On 30 April 2013 10:42, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: It would be possible to get a list of registered codec search functions, but there's no API to ask the search functions for a list of supported codecs. OK, so there's no way to determine

Re: [Python-Dev] Why can't I encode/decode base64 without importing a module?

2013-04-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.04.2013 23:37, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 24 Apr 2013 01:25, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 23.04.2013 17:15, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Apr 22, 2013, at 06:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: You can ask the same question about all the other codecs. (And that question has indeed been

Re: [Python-Dev] Why can't I encode/decode base64 without importing a module?

2013-04-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.04.2013 19:24, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 9:04 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 23.04.2013 17:47, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:22 AM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: Just as reminder: we have the general purpose encode()/decode

Re: [Python-Dev] Why can't I encode/decode base64 without importing a module?

2013-04-23 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 23.04.2013 17:15, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Apr 22, 2013, at 06:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: You can ask the same question about all the other codecs. (And that question has indeed been asked in the past.) Except for rot13. :-) The fact that you can do this instead *is* a bit odd. ;)

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