Re: [RBW] Riv steel tube wall thicknesses? Proprietary or public?
Nothing's proprietary here. Related to that, about 25 years ago the Eddy Merckx brochure listed specs for everything on the frames except head tube angle, which was proprietary. The same era Gios frames listed frame sizes 48 thru 64, and every head and seat tube angle was 75 degrees. A while back we showed the new SILVER tube specs on cardboard. Tubing wall thicknesses matter at some level--if they're too thin, that's bad. It's really hard to derive anything useful from them. How much less does a 100mm length of 0.7 weigh than 0.8? Not much, and when you look at the meager gains in weight savings and the significant (I'd say, not everybody would) gains in strength, it's a good argument to go to 1.0, even. The new SILVER tubeset, which I haven't said much about because bragging about it makes it sound like I don't like normal butted tubes, and that's far, far off---but the SILVER is a single-butted tube. The downtube is 1.1 at the top end, has a long 70mm taper, and has an 0.8mm belly and no but (is 0.8) at the oppo-end. Somebody who doesn't get tubes would say single-butting is a short-cut. To my way of thinking, it's super smart and better (but not dramatically). You get 1.1 in the stressed area behind the head tube. The belly is 0.8, to resist twisting (talking about it overemphasizes it) and dents (more important if the bike falls over). THe 0.8 at the bb end is on the thin side, but this is a super low-stress area. The long butt on a long tube allows us to spec butt length according to frame size. This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing--- It would be easy to say, We leave the butt long on big frames, cut it short on smallies, but that doesn't account for light tallies or short stockies. The controversial 2TT is a better way to upstrength the big frames, far more effective than a thicker tube. More heavy too, but another 7oz or so, I don't care. I looked at the weight savings of long vs short butts, and it was like--a fraction of an OUNCE. At that point, forget it. Leave 'em long. Sometimes people ask what BRAND of tube we use, and if I'm in a bad mood (twice only in many years), I replied with Tell me what you know about Columbus SL vs Reynolds 531 vs Tange Prestige. Usually people know labels, not metallurgy. All the tube makers make good tubes, but a good tube is no guarantee of a good joint or frame. Years ago I'd have spend time on the spreadsheets, but I don't see the point now. It's not laziness or close-to-the vestness, as much as supplying numbers AS THOUGH they matter, AS THOUGH they are in and of themselves tellling, Then people who don't know what they mean feel bad, and who actually does know what they mean? 1.0mm sounds thick compared to 0,8mm, but it's still so thin. I like the 1,1 butts. They make more theoretical sense to me, and in a butt that's so short anyway (even our long ones), there's no time for it to get heavy. All the steel tube makers, I'm sure, list tube specs. I'm not sure they tell you much. Is eight-tenths of a millimeter too fat for the center portion of a downtube? I don't think so. On Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:06:44 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote: They've published tube specs in the past (Ram for instance) but have drifted away from that. I think they want to think about the bike and the ride, not the tubing itself. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Michael john1...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Anyone know? I am interested to see what the blue Sams from 2013 are. Thanks for any info. Also, Bleriots. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: My Heron build
Bailey Falls Blue Bailey Falls Blue is dark metallic blue with a hint of green. Some folks will call it a blue-green, but everyone seems to see it a little differently. Bailey Falls was a beautiful local landmark. It featured unique rock formations and a large waterfall. It had been a popular spot for picnics and swimming for decades. Unfortunately, the area had to be closed for safety reasons as a local mining operation expanded nearby. Eventually, the mine overtook the Falls, and this unique local spot was lost for good. The End of the #34;Made-In-China#34; Era The impossible #40;but real#41; technology that could make you impossibly rich. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/53a417482003517480b15st03duc -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Reynolds 531 hubub?
On 06/19/2014 10:29 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: It ain't no chromoly. From that inexorable arbiter, Wiki: *Reynolds 531* (pronounced 'five-three-one') is a brand name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_name, registered to Reynolds Cycle Technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology of Birmingham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birminghamin the United Kingdom, for a manganese–molybdenum, medium-carbon steel bicycle tubing. Introduced in 1935 and for many years at the forefront of alloy steel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy_steel tubing technology, 531 tubing has been superseded by more complex alloys and heat-treatment/cold work cycles as Reynolds continues to compete with other manufacturers of steel for the bicycle industry.^[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531#cite_note-REN-1 The approximate alloying composition of 531 tubing is 1.5% Mn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese, 0.25% Mo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum, 0.35% C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon, and is similar to the old British BS970 En 16/18 steel (EN 16 is similar to grade BS970 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_grades 605M36). Its mechanical properties and response to heat treatment are broadly similar to the AISI 4130 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AISI_steel_grades standard alloy steel, also used for bicycle frames, motorcycles, as well as aviation and motor-sport.^[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531#cite_note-REN-1 This material was used to form the front subframes on the Jaguar E-Type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_E-Type of the 1960s.^[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531#cite_note-2 The properties of 531 are very close to those of 4130 steel, though, from what I read. My question: what exactly is/was 531 C, and where did it stand in the lineup from thinnest to thickest walled? My 1989 Falcon was made from this, as was that very briefly owned (the steerer cracked just above the crown) Orbit tandem. I *know* it was very light for a tandem! -- can you say wag the dog? Basically, their 8/5/8, light gauge tube set. Definitely not something you'd want to build a tandem out of -- Reynolds did make a special 531 OS tandem tube set for Jack Taylor. My old Gitane Supersport tandem was made of standard gauge 531 -- based on the decal, probably the 9/6/9 standard tube set -- with twin external lateral diagonal tubes, and wag the dog doesn't begin to describe it. The only way to pick a line around an obstacle like a bollard was to aim right at it, and at the last moment swerve in whatever direction the bike was tending to go by itself, because if you tried to pick a specific gap and aim for it, when it hit the bumps right in front of the bollard it would surely swerve right into it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Pics of your Riv with a wild animal...
nice hat... On Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:34:18 PM UTC-5, Eunice Chang wrote: Does this count? He can be wild, especially when there are other dogs involved... https://www.flickr.com/photos/ejchang/14459869784/ A few days ago, Thumper (AHH) met a rabbit in my driveway. They engaged in some sort of intra? inter? species standoff. The Riv won, of course. No photos, alas... -E. On Tuesday, June 17, 2014, Jim Bronson jim.b...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: nice looking kitty :) On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: um, best I could do https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7uy3ey859T0/UE9R0rSQimI/AE4/L7ZIpqW1e4A/s1600/aP6240010.jpg On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 2:15:46 PM UTC-5, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: I was enveloped by a swarm of perturbed canyon sheep on Sunday: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/14413176656/ Really was pretty cool. Something that I would never have experienced unless I was out ramblin' about on two wheels! Cheers, David it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 8:23 AM, Jim Bronson jim.b...@gmail.com wrote: I saw a bobcat while riding my Rivendell last week in the country about 8 miles east of my house, but it quickly scurried into the shadows before I could get my phone out to take a picture. I was probably too far away anyway to get any sort of detail with a smartphone camera. Nevertheless, it was pretty neat to see. I saw a similar but smaller bobcat about a year ago on the same road about 1.5-2 miles away from the spot I saw one at last week. If it's the same cat, he or she is doing well, good to see. There is a pond in the general area so I'm sure it's a fairly rich feeding area for the cat and any other non-domestic cats in the area. On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Takashi lachry...@gmail.com wrote: I was riding my Hunq on Sunday when I (and my Hunq) encountered a Japanese serow. Then I recalled the wild animal thread and thougt I'd reactivate it after one-year gap. https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/14434595845/ Takashi 2013年6月3日月曜日 3時17分00秒 UTC+9 Michael: Would love to see if anyone snapped a pic showing their Rivendell with a wild animal in the frame. I thought it would make for an interesting thread. I got a deer today. Not so wild, but wild. iPhone did okay. But wish I had my camera. Gotta start taking it on rides. The deer stood there as I passed him, and stayed as I fumbled around getting the phone outta my bag. Started leaving as I got the pics taken. A baby deer walked by after. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] WTB: Big saddle bag
Looking for a used, decent (doesn't have to be great) saddle bag like a Carradice camper or Large riv. Let me know if you have something. -A -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Marin Camping on Entmoot's Eve (Friday Night)
Twas the Night Before Entmoot - or - Howdy Friday Night Campers! I’m looking to ride up into Marin from San Francisco in the early afternoon of July 11. The main China Camp reservation starts on Saturday (thanks Jim!), but I’d like to camp on Friday Night with others of us attending the Riv Jamboree. I don’t have a site yet (and they’re scarce) so I’d like to either join up with any of us who already have a site in the area, or to quickly secure a site for any of us not yet set. In a quick look, it seems Tomales Bay has sites, but they’re less easy to find in Southern Marin or Angel’s Camp itself. Anyone who either already has or needs a campsite for Friday night – let’s talk about it. Roger -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] WTT: my 60 cm orange Hillborne for 64 or 62 SH or Hunq
Longshot here. Mine is 60 cm, single TT orange. https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/5366124844/ Interested in trading for the 64 cm or 62 cm model. A trade plus cash for a 64 Bombadil or 62 Hunq would be fun, but I'm not crazy enough to think that could happen. I'm trying to help a 6'5 family member get a camping bike that fits him, and while the 60 cm orange HIllborne fits me personally, I have some redundancy in my own bike collection, and it would be more fun riding with him on a bike that fits him than it is having a spare camping bike. Frame trade probably, but if setups are compatible, full bike could work. (Mine has sidepull brakes.) Thanks for reading! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Is it the tube, or the design?
My initial comments about my Heron Road generated a good bit of discussion about the perceived wonderfulness of a specific tube, which has been interesting and informative, but possibly misses a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. Of course the tubes chosen for each model/size are part of the equation, but I suspect the geometries they are placed into make more of a difference in the ride/handling than the specific properties of the tube themselves. This would be my guess, at any rate. Joe I can follow the path, I can read the signs. Stay right with it when the road unwinds Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Is it the tube, or the design?
As a Heron Road owner, I can certainly agree with what you've described below. I've never really cared about the tubes or tube specs as I've assumed that the great ride quality is the result of the geometry and careful tube selection. Simply picking up the same tubes and making a different bike with them would probably not generate the same result. It's a complete package I think. Hugh Happy Herron Flynn Newburyport, MA On Jun 20, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: My initial comments about my Heron Road generated a good bit of discussion about the perceived wonderfulness of a specific tube, which has been interesting and informative, but possibly misses a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. Of course the tubes chosen for each model/size are part of the equation, but I suspect the geometries they are placed into make more of a difference in the ride/handling than the specific properties of the tube themselves. This would be my guess, at any rate. Joe I can follow the path, I can read the signs. Stay right with it when the road unwinds Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Is it the tube, or the design?
Hi Joe, I agree with you about the Riv handling-- the ride of the Hunqapillar is just special compared to other bikes I've ridden. I remembered this blinded tubing comparison from Bruce Gordon's site. Steel vs Steel: Tange Prestige and Columbus SL http://www.bgcycles.com/frame-tubing-selection.html Great Heron build, BTW. shoji On Friday, June 20, 2014 11:37:13 AM UTC-4, Hugh Flynn wrote: As a Heron Road owner, I can certainly agree with what you've described below. I've never really cared about the tubes or tube specs as I've assumed that the great ride quality is the result of the geometry and careful tube selection. Simply picking up the same tubes and making a different bike with them would probably not generate the same result. It's a complete package I think. Hugh Happy Herron Flynn Newburyport, MA On Jun 20, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: My initial comments about my Heron Road generated a good bit of discussion about the perceived wonderfulness of a specific tube, which has been interesting and informative, but possibly misses a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. Of course the tubes chosen for each model/size are part of the equation, but I suspect the geometries they are placed into make more of a difference in the ride/handling than the specific properties of the tube themselves. This would be my guess, at any rate. Joe I can follow the path, I can read the signs. Stay right with it when the road unwinds Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Is it the tube, or the design?
That captures exactly what I love about the Rivendell road bikes I've owned -- particularly the snap into a different direction with no compromise in stability. I fully agree that minutiae about tubing specs play a very small part in this compared to frame design. Grant has a magic touch there. Interesting that even with very light 559 or 571 wheels and tires Grant's designs preserve this outstanding combination of stability, consistency, and intuitive turning. On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: ... a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: FYI - V-Brake Arm Lengths
Mark, I love this. How do you prefer to measure the arms? Center of fixing bolt to center of cable anchor bolt? Do you want to catalog older brakes or just those in current production? Eric -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Is it the tube, or the design?
Surely the design is the lion's share of a bike's handling, ride, response, etc. The raw material would have to be top quality to produce the designer's intent, but likely there are several vendors products that are functionally interchangeable. Designers like Grant have accumulated years (decades?) of experience. Remember his how to design a frame tutorial a couple of years ago? Ain't so easy, I suspect. dougP On Friday, June 20, 2014 8:24:30 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote: My initial comments about my Heron Road generated a good bit of discussion about the perceived wonderfulness of a specific tube, which has been interesting and informative, but possibly misses a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. Of course the tubes chosen for each model/size are part of the equation, but I suspect the geometries they are placed into make more of a difference in the ride/handling than the specific properties of the tube themselves. This would be my guess, at any rate. Joe I can follow the path, I can read the signs. Stay right with it when the road unwinds Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Reynolds 531 hubub?
My goodness, Steve, even when I agree with you, you have to disagree with me. Steve Palinscar said (and I quote): I'm pretty sure 531SL/Professional had thinner walls than 531C I, Bill Lindsay, merely agreed that 531C is/was stouter than 531SL/Professional. That's it and that's all. I didn't intend to call it the stoutest, only more stout than the least stout. Now I want to drink a stout. On Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:33:44 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 06/19/2014 08:04 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: I agree that 531C is/was on the stouter end of the roadie spectrum. That's what they used on the Trek 720 in the early 80s Stouter? I think you have that wrong: the SuperTourist was stout. 531C was fairly light gauge, and only the SL Professional were lighter. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Riv steel tube wall thicknesses? Proprietary or public?
I've been bemused by the tube thread. Years ago I had a religious devotion to Reynolds 531 cause that was da bomb. I think tube fascination can be amplified. My vote is to give the butts and wall thickness in microns. so a 0.8 mm wall becomes 800 microns. Maybe even add some tolerance so 800 um +/- 8 um. Such precision should keep the wheels of feeds and speeds turning for another generation. -JimD ...and I guess I should add - ;) On Jun 19, 2014, at 11:45 PM, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing's proprietary here. Related to that, about 25 years ago the Eddy Merckx brochure listed specs for everything on the frames except head tube angle, which was proprietary. The same era Gios frames listed frame sizes 48 thru 64, and every head and seat tube angle was 75 degrees. A while back we showed the new SILVER tube specs on cardboard. Tubing wall thicknesses matter at some level--if they're too thin, that's bad. It's really hard to derive anything useful from them. How much less does a 100mm length of 0.7 weigh than 0.8? Not much, and when you look at the meager gains in weight savings and the significant (I'd say, not everybody would) gains in strength, it's a good argument to go to 1.0, even. The new SILVER tubeset, which I haven't said much about because bragging about it makes it sound like I don't like normal butted tubes, and that's far, far off---but the SILVER is a single-butted tube. The downtube is 1.1 at the top end, has a long 70mm taper, and has an 0.8mm belly and no but (is 0.8) at the oppo-end. Somebody who doesn't get tubes would say single-butting is a short-cut. To my way of thinking, it's super smart and better (but not dramatically). You get 1.1 in the stressed area behind the head tube. The belly is 0.8, to resist twisting (talking about it overemphasizes it) and dents (more important if the bike falls over). THe 0.8 at the bb end is on the thin side, but this is a super low-stress area. The long butt on a long tube allows us to spec butt length according to frame size. This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing--- It would be easy to say, We leave the butt long on big frames, cut it short on smallies, but that doesn't account for light tallies or short stockies. The controversial 2TT is a better way to upstrength the big frames, far more effective than a thicker tube. More heavy too, but another 7oz or so, I don't care. I looked at the weight savings of long vs short butts, and it was like--a fraction of an OUNCE. At that point, forget it. Leave 'em long. Sometimes people ask what BRAND of tube we use, and if I'm in a bad mood (twice only in many years), I replied with Tell me what you know about Columbus SL vs Reynolds 531 vs Tange Prestige. Usually people know labels, not metallurgy. All the tube makers make good tubes, but a good tube is no guarantee of a good joint or frame. Years ago I'd have spend time on the spreadsheets, but I don't see the point now. It's not laziness or close-to-the vestness, as much as supplying numbers AS THOUGH they matter, AS THOUGH they are in and of themselves tellling, Then people who don't know what they mean feel bad, and who actually does know what they mean? 1.0mm sounds thick compared to 0,8mm, but it's still so thin. I like the 1,1 butts. They make more theoretical sense to me, and in a butt that's so short anyway (even our long ones), there's no time for it to get heavy. All the steel tube makers, I'm sure, list tube specs. I'm not sure they tell you much. Is eight-tenths of a millimeter too fat for the center portion of a downtube? I don't think so. On Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:06:44 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote: They've published tube specs in the past (Ram for instance) but have drifted away from that. I think they want to think about the bike and the ride, not the tubing itself. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Michael john1...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know? I am interested to see what the blue Sams from 2013 are. Thanks for any info. Also, Bleriots. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit
Re: [RBW] Marin Camping on Entmoot's Eve (Friday Night)
Hey Roger, both China Camp and Samuel P Taylor have hike and bike sites, first come first served. The SPT one is huge. You won't get turned away. The CC one has two small sites, but I've never been turned away. No reservations needed of course. Lee On Jun 20, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Roger rogerdhod...@gmail.com wrote: Twas the Night Before Entmoot - or - Howdy Friday Night Campers! I’m looking to ride up into Marin from San Francisco in the early afternoon of July 11. The main China Camp reservation starts on Saturday (thanks Jim!), but I’d like to camp on Friday Night with others of us attending the Riv Jamboree. I don’t have a site yet (and they’re scarce) so I’d like to either join up with any of us who already have a site in the area, or to quickly secure a site for any of us not yet set. In a quick look, it seems Tomales Bay has sites, but they’re less easy to find in Southern Marin or Angel’s Camp itself. Anyone who either already has or needs a campsite for Friday night – let’s talk about it. Roger -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Is it the tube, or the design?
Shoji, Thanks for posting that link. It was an interesting read. I wonder if a lot of what they experienced in road dampening qualities was due to the difference in fork flex (thinking of Jan Heine's ideas about the shock absorption of round, thin wall fork blades). It would be interesting to swap forks between bikes and see what happened. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Shoji Takahashi shoji.takaha...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Joe, I agree with you about the Riv handling-- the ride of the Hunqapillar is just special compared to other bikes I've ridden. I remembered this blinded tubing comparison from Bruce Gordon's site. Steel vs Steel: Tange Prestige and Columbus SL http://www.bgcycles.com/frame-tubing-selection.html Great Heron build, BTW. shoji On Friday, June 20, 2014 11:37:13 AM UTC-4, Hugh Flynn wrote: As a Heron Road owner, I can certainly agree with what you've described below. I've never really cared about the tubes or tube specs as I've assumed that the great ride quality is the result of the geometry and careful tube selection. Simply picking up the same tubes and making a different bike with them would probably not generate the same result. It's a complete package I think. Hugh Happy Herron Flynn Newburyport, MA On Jun 20, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Joe Bernard wrote: My initial comments about my Heron Road generated a good bit of discussion about the perceived wonderfulness of a specific tube, which has been interesting and informative, but possibly misses a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. Of course the tubes chosen for each model/size are part of the equation, but I suspect the geometries they are placed into make more of a difference in the ride/handling than the specific properties of the tube themselves. This would be my guess, at any rate. Joe I can follow the path, I can read the signs. Stay right with it when the road unwinds Bernard Vallejo, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Is it the tube, or the design?
Yes, the design is the major factor in terms of how the bike handles and rides... however. The tubing diameter and wall thickness directly influence the stiffness (or perhaps more accurately the spring rate) of each tube. This in turn will affect the bike's response to loading whether from weight put on the bike or dynamic loading from pedaling, etc. Take a Roadeo and put 100 lbs of stuff in panniers on it and compare it to the same size Atlantis with the same load and the bikes will tolerate those loads differently; the odds are that the Atlantis will handle much better because the frame won't flex as much from the load. That's an extreme case, though, and for most aspects of the riding experience the effects of frame design will be more prominent than whether the belly of the tube is .07 or .08. However, on interwebs forums you'll find a lot of argument to the contrary from the princess and the pea crowd. I remember one guy on rec.bicycles hollering blue bloody murder because his custom bike came with a top tube like 3 mm off spec center to center and how the builder ruined his bike. I am so glad that I am not as sensitive to these things and too ignorant to know the difference. Tim On Jun 20, 2014, at 12:30 PM, dougP dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Surely the design is the lion's share of a bike's handling, ride, response, etc. The raw material would have to be top quality to produce the designer's intent, but likely there are several vendors products that are functionally interchangeable. Designers like Grant have accumulated years (decades?) of experience. Remember his how to design a frame tutorial a couple of years ago? Ain't so easy, I suspect. dougP On Friday, June 20, 2014 8:24:30 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote: My initial comments about my Heron Road generated a good bit of discussion about the perceived wonderfulness of a specific tube, which has been interesting and informative, but possibly misses a salient fact about said bicycle: I've owned several Grant-designed bikes, and they all have an hard-to-describe-if-you-haven't-experienced-it ability to float comfortably down the road; hold a stable line in a turn; yet snap into a different direction on a whim. I've ridden enough other bikes in 25 years to know this is not an universal quality in frame design, which is one of the things that makes Rivendells (and Riv-designed Herons) special. Of course the tubes chosen for each model/size are part of the equation, but I suspect the geometries they are placed into make more of a difference in the ride/handling than the specific properties of the tube themselves. This would be my guess, at any rate. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Riv steel tube wall thicknesses? Proprietary or public?
This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing Truer words were never spoken, not only on this topic but many others as well. I gotta remember this next time we get ourselves all fizzed about (*insert topic here)*. Not to diminish the hours of entertainment and amusement we get from debating, but it's easy to lose perspective. A bike ride is always a good tonic. dougP On Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:45:08 PM UTC-7, grant wrote: Nothing's proprietary here. Related to that, about 25 years ago the Eddy Merckx brochure listed specs for everything on the frames except head tube angle, which was proprietary. The same era Gios frames listed frame sizes 48 thru 64, and every head and seat tube angle was 75 degrees. A while back we showed the new SILVER tube specs on cardboard. Tubing wall thicknesses matter at some level--if they're too thin, that's bad. It's really hard to derive anything useful from them. How much less does a 100mm length of 0.7 weigh than 0.8? Not much, and when you look at the meager gains in weight savings and the significant (I'd say, not everybody would) gains in strength, it's a good argument to go to 1.0, even. The new SILVER tubeset, which I haven't said much about because bragging about it makes it sound like I don't like normal butted tubes, and that's far, far off---but the SILVER is a single-butted tube. The downtube is 1.1 at the top end, has a long 70mm taper, and has an 0.8mm belly and no but (is 0.8) at the oppo-end. Somebody who doesn't get tubes would say single-butting is a short-cut. To my way of thinking, it's super smart and better (but not dramatically). You get 1.1 in the stressed area behind the head tube. The belly is 0.8, to resist twisting (talking about it overemphasizes it) and dents (more important if the bike falls over). THe 0.8 at the bb end is on the thin side, but this is a super low-stress area. The long butt on a long tube allows us to spec butt length according to frame size. This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing--- It would be easy to say, We leave the butt long on big frames, cut it short on smallies, but that doesn't account for light tallies or short stockies. The controversial 2TT is a better way to upstrength the big frames, far more effective than a thicker tube. More heavy too, but another 7oz or so, I don't care. I looked at the weight savings of long vs short butts, and it was like--a fraction of an OUNCE. At that point, forget it. Leave 'em long. Sometimes people ask what BRAND of tube we use, and if I'm in a bad mood (twice only in many years), I replied with Tell me what you know about Columbus SL vs Reynolds 531 vs Tange Prestige. Usually people know labels, not metallurgy. All the tube makers make good tubes, but a good tube is no guarantee of a good joint or frame. Years ago I'd have spend time on the spreadsheets, but I don't see the point now. It's not laziness or close-to-the vestness, as much as supplying numbers AS THOUGH they matter, AS THOUGH they are in and of themselves tellling, Then people who don't know what they mean feel bad, and who actually does know what they mean? 1.0mm sounds thick compared to 0,8mm, but it's still so thin. I like the 1,1 butts. They make more theoretical sense to me, and in a butt that's so short anyway (even our long ones), there's no time for it to get heavy. All the steel tube makers, I'm sure, list tube specs. I'm not sure they tell you much. Is eight-tenths of a millimeter too fat for the center portion of a downtube? I don't think so. On Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:06:44 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote: They've published tube specs in the past (Ram for instance) but have drifted away from that. I think they want to think about the bike and the ride, not the tubing itself. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Michael john1...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know? I am interested to see what the blue Sams from 2013 are. Thanks for any info. Also, Bleriots. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Is it the tube, or the design?
It's not a this OR that . .. . . . it's this AND that ! The Whole Enchilada Tubes, design, yes . . . . but mostly it is the mind of the perceiver , the one riding . Call it intangibles , things that no one can measure in any human way, you know it when you feel it :) We spend word upon word trying to describe it, but they are only facsimiles of the original ! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Marin Camping on Entmoot's Eve (Friday Night)
Thanks Lee I've biked into Taylor several times and found once they cut it off (at 7 I believe). Two people were escorted away, but I never knew if they were tucked in somewhere else or if they were turned away. All the riders I've talked with believe Taylor never turns away a cyclist, so maybe they were given another spot. With your advice, I'll definitely try China Camp. Still, if any other Friday arrivers are feeling sociable, let's talk about meeting up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Riv steel tube wall thicknesses? Proprietary or public?
I like it, but can't we go further and get small enough that we can only speak about the thickness in probabilities? Then we could discuss frames as wave functions. At that point frames could be priced on the probability of their collapsing into something you can actually ride. For $1 you could get a frame in any size you like with almost no probability of it ever collapsing into something you could use. For more you get something a bit more probable, a Rivendell 66cm Schrodinger perhaps. Just a thought. Not saying it's a good one. Bob On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 7:52 AM, jimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: I've been bemused by the tube thread. Years ago I had a religious devotion to Reynolds 531 cause that was da bomb. I think tube fascination can be amplified. My vote is to give the butts and wall thickness in microns. so a 0.8 mm wall becomes 800 microns. Maybe even add some tolerance so 800 um +/- 8 um. Such precision should keep the wheels of feeds and speeds turning for another generation. -JimD …and I guess I should add - ;) On Jun 19, 2014, at 11:45 PM, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing's proprietary here. Related to that, about 25 years ago the Eddy Merckx brochure listed specs for everything on the frames except head tube angle, which was proprietary. The same era Gios frames listed frame sizes 48 thru 64, and every head and seat tube angle was 75 degrees. A while back we showed the new SILVER tube specs on cardboard. Tubing wall thicknesses matter at some level--if they're too thin, that's bad. It's really hard to derive anything useful from them. How much less does a 100mm length of 0.7 weigh than 0.8? Not much, and when you look at the meager gains in weight savings and the significant (I'd say, not everybody would) gains in strength, it's a good argument to go to 1.0, even. The new SILVER tubeset, which I haven't said much about because bragging about it makes it sound like I don't like normal butted tubes, and that's far, far off---but the SILVER is a single-butted tube. The downtube is 1.1 at the top end, has a long 70mm taper, and has an 0.8mm belly and no but (is 0.8) at the oppo-end. Somebody who doesn't get tubes would say single-butting is a short-cut. To my way of thinking, it's super smart and better (but not dramatically). You get 1.1 in the stressed area behind the head tube. The belly is 0.8, to resist twisting (talking about it overemphasizes it) and dents (more important if the bike falls over). THe 0.8 at the bb end is on the thin side, but this is a super low-stress area. The long butt on a long tube allows us to spec butt length according to frame size. This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing--- It would be easy to say, We leave the butt long on big frames, cut it short on smallies, but that doesn't account for light tallies or short stockies. The controversial 2TT is a better way to upstrength the big frames, far more effective than a thicker tube. More heavy too, but another 7oz or so, I don't care. I looked at the weight savings of long vs short butts, and it was like--a fraction of an OUNCE. At that point, forget it. Leave 'em long. Sometimes people ask what BRAND of tube we use, and if I'm in a bad mood (twice only in many years), I replied with Tell me what you know about Columbus SL vs Reynolds 531 vs Tange Prestige. Usually people know labels, not metallurgy. All the tube makers make good tubes, but a good tube is no guarantee of a good joint or frame. Years ago I'd have spend time on the spreadsheets, but I don't see the point now. It's not laziness or close-to-the vestness, as much as supplying numbers AS THOUGH they matter, AS THOUGH they are in and of themselves tellling, Then people who don't know what they mean feel bad, and who actually does know what they mean? 1.0mm sounds thick compared to 0,8mm, but it's still so thin. I like the 1,1 butts. They make more theoretical sense to me, and in a butt that's so short anyway (even our long ones), there's no time for it to get heavy. All the steel tube makers, I'm sure, list tube specs. I'm not sure they tell you much. Is eight-tenths of a millimeter too fat for the center portion of a downtube? I don't think so. On Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:06:44 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote: They've published tube specs in the past (Ram for instance) but have drifted away from that. I think they want to think about the bike and the ride, not the tubing itself. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Michael john1...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know? I am interested to see what the blue Sams from 2013 are. Thanks for any info. Also, Bleriots. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Riv steel tube wall thicknesses? Proprietary or public?
I can see why its not good to get tied up in knots about tubing specs. Especially when I don't have a clue about how framesets work. This thread was started to help unravel myself from yet another cycling theory system: ultra-light-flexi is better. I have read a lot of chatter about this online. Even if an ultra-light steel bike is easier to pedal along than one a coupla fractions of an mm thicker, I am not sure it would make a diff for a non-athlete like myself. Past zeitgeists I have tried out: Skinny tires, and clip-in shoes are all better. When I employed them all in years past, only to still be the same slow-poke, I realized it ain't true, at least for me. *Again, maybe only athletes can benefit from these things, as they may have the engines that can appreciate these refinements.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: FYI - V-Brake Arm Lengths
Awesome idea! Shimano Deore XT BR-T780: 107 mm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: FYI - V-Brake Arm Lengths
This resource may help: http://www.gravelbike.com With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: FYI - V-Brake Arm Lengths
Sorry. here's the link direct to the post: http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=3298 With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Riv steel tube wall thicknesses? Proprietary or public?
Just a thought. Not saying it's a good one. Good or not it's a fun one! -JimD On Jun 20, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Robert F. Harrison rfharri...@gmail.com wrote: I like it, but can't we go further and get small enough that we can only speak about the thickness in probabilities? Then we could discuss frames as wave functions. At that point frames could be priced on the probability of their collapsing into something you can actually ride. For $1 you could get a frame in any size you like with almost no probability of it ever collapsing into something you could use. For more you get something a bit more probable, a Rivendell 66cm Schrodinger perhaps. Just a thought. Not saying it's a good one. Bob On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 7:52 AM, jimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: I've been bemused by the tube thread. Years ago I had a religious devotion to Reynolds 531 cause that was da bomb. I think tube fascination can be amplified. My vote is to give the butts and wall thickness in microns. so a 0.8 mm wall becomes 800 microns. Maybe even add some tolerance so 800 um +/- 8 um. Such precision should keep the wheels of feeds and speeds turning for another generation. -JimD ...and I guess I should add - ;) On Jun 19, 2014, at 11:45 PM, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing's proprietary here. Related to that, about 25 years ago the Eddy Merckx brochure listed specs for everything on the frames except head tube angle, which was proprietary. The same era Gios frames listed frame sizes 48 thru 64, and every head and seat tube angle was 75 degrees. A while back we showed the new SILVER tube specs on cardboard. Tubing wall thicknesses matter at some level--if they're too thin, that's bad. It's really hard to derive anything useful from them. How much less does a 100mm length of 0.7 weigh than 0.8? Not much, and when you look at the meager gains in weight savings and the significant (I'd say, not everybody would) gains in strength, it's a good argument to go to 1.0, even. The new SILVER tubeset, which I haven't said much about because bragging about it makes it sound like I don't like normal butted tubes, and that's far, far off---but the SILVER is a single-butted tube. The downtube is 1.1 at the top end, has a long 70mm taper, and has an 0.8mm belly and no but (is 0.8) at the oppo-end. Somebody who doesn't get tubes would say single-butting is a short-cut. To my way of thinking, it's super smart and better (but not dramatically). You get 1.1 in the stressed area behind the head tube. The belly is 0.8, to resist twisting (talking about it overemphasizes it) and dents (more important if the bike falls over). THe 0.8 at the bb end is on the thin side, but this is a super low-stress area. The long butt on a long tube allows us to spec butt length according to frame size. This is a theoretical plus but a practical big nothing--- It would be easy to say, We leave the butt long on big frames, cut it short on smallies, but that doesn't account for light tallies or short stockies. The controversial 2TT is a better way to upstrength the big frames, far more effective than a thicker tube. More heavy too, but another 7oz or so, I don't care. I looked at the weight savings of long vs short butts, and it was like--a fraction of an OUNCE. At that point, forget it. Leave 'em long. Sometimes people ask what BRAND of tube we use, and if I'm in a bad mood (twice only in many years), I replied with Tell me what you know about Columbus SL vs Reynolds 531 vs Tange Prestige. Usually people know labels, not metallurgy. All the tube makers make good tubes, but a good tube is no guarantee of a good joint or frame. Years ago I'd have spend time on the spreadsheets, but I don't see the point now. It's not laziness or close-to-the vestness, as much as supplying numbers AS THOUGH they matter, AS THOUGH they are in and of themselves tellling, Then people who don't know what they mean feel bad, and who actually does know what they mean? 1.0mm sounds thick compared to 0,8mm, but it's still so thin. I like the 1,1 butts. They make more theoretical sense to me, and in a butt that's so short anyway (even our long ones), there's no time for it to get heavy. All the steel tube makers, I'm sure, list tube specs. I'm not sure they tell you much. Is eight-tenths of a millimeter too fat for the center portion of a downtube? I don't think so. On Thursday, June 19, 2014 5:06:44 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote: They've published tube specs in the past (Ram for instance) but have drifted away from that. I think they want to think about the bike and the ride, not the tubing itself. On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Michael john1...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know? I am interested to see what the blue Sams from 2013 are. Thanks for any info. Also, Bleriots. -- You received this message because you are
[RBW] WTB: 32h 700c Rims - Silver or Polish
Hi All, Another WTB posting here - looking for a pair of 700c rims for a wheel build. Something wider, a la VO Raid, Soma Weymouth, Salsa Delgado Cross, etc. Must be new/NOS. Must be polished (first choice) or silver (second choice). Classic box section, rather than aero preferred. Anyone have a set lying around with no plans for? Send me a message! Thanks, Kieran Toronto, Canada -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Travel to SFO / RBW: Food Tips?
For walnut creek visit ask the rbw folks. Lots of good places near the rbw hatchet shop. For sf, show dog on market st near 7th is worth the short walk or transit ride. Colorful urban neighborhood but worth it for the fried chicken sandwiches and house made sausages. Good coffee too -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Travel to SFO / RBW: Food Tips?
Frank, Do you hanker for anything in particular? One fairly safe bet is the Ferry Building. You'll find roughly seven restaurants there, plus Blue Bottle coffee (prepare to queue up) and Humphrey Slocombe ice cream. It's right on the Embarcadero waterfront where Market Street meets the bay, about a 20-minute brisk walk from Union Square. Evan E. SF, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
