Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

The artist formerly known as Michael and then Lungimsam and now Lum Gim 
Fong, asked of which tubing my 1985 Schwinn Tempo is comprised.  

The short answer is "I don't know for sure".  

The longer answer is longer.  There are Columbus Tenax stickers on the 
frame, and when I worked at a Schwinn shop in 1985, the Schwinn Tempos also 
had those Columbus Tenax stickers.  The fork blades on my bike also have a 
Columbus sticker.  

What's Columbus Tenax?  It's mid-range, seamed, heavier tubing than SL or 
even SP.  Depending on who you ask, though, things get weird beyond that 
point.  Some people will tell you that Tenax tubing was not available in 
the Fall of 1984.  It didn't exist yet, but the frames that became the 
Tempo, and the Voyager, and a couple other models were manufactured in the 
Fall of 1984, in Japan.  There is a rumor going around, and I'm 
perpetuating this rumor by sharing it.  The rumor is that Columbus had a 
pile of cosmetic blem SP and SL tubing that Schwinn bought up on the cheap. 
 Schwinn wanted to claim Columbus, but Columbus did not want them to claim 
Columbus SL or SP, so they gave them these Tenax stickers, which was a 
planned tubeset that did not yet exist.  So, these 1985 Schwinns have the 
reputation for being sneaky-nice bikes.  

I don't know if that rumor is true.  What I do know it that my Schwinn 
Tempo has a 28.6mm seat tube and takes a 26.4mm seatpost, meaning my seat 
tube has a massive 1.1mm wall thickness and therefore is almost certainly 
plain-gauge (not butted at all).  The 28,6mm downtube does NOT have that 
sonorous "ring" of thin-walled tubing.  The 25.4mm top tube also does not 
sound to my untrained ear as thinwall tubing.  I also know that the fork 
steer tube has TANGE stamped in it.   

Michael/Lungimsam/Lum Gim Fong also asked what my light Hillborne wheels 
are.  They are HED Belgium C2 Plus rims, 32 hole, Dura Ace 7700 hubs (with 
the rear spaced to 135 with an XT axle).  DT Competition spokes 2x in 
front, 2x on the left rear and 3x on the right rear.  Brass nipples.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 9:51:22 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> Bill's Schwinn looks like it has Columbus tubing if I'm not mistaken
>
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 1:18:46 AM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> Fantastic thread, Bill!!
>> Really fun. Enjoying it immensely.
>> Makes me hungry to ride more.
>> A couple questions about the bikes:
>>
>> Schwinn:
>> 1. What kinda tubing is the frame?
>>
>> Orange Sam:
>> 2. You said you have lightweight wheels on it. What are they? Interested 
>> to know.
>>
>> As for your concerns about your use of descriptive terms:
>> I am really glad you haven't used terms like "vertically compliant", 
>> "laterally stiff", or "stoic", in your descriptions as they make me roll my 
>> eyes when used. Haha! 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Patrick Moore]

First: Bill: thanks for the profile shot of the Tempo; forgot to
acknowledge.

Ryan: I can't speak for Bill's, but mine was made from Columbus Tenax
tubing and was pretty heavy, though the bike rode quite well for one that
couldn't take a 26mm *labeled* tire in the back. (And didn't I fix
*that* problem!
Ho!) I seem to recall that Tenax, at least mid-'80s Tenax, was straight
gauge, seamed tubing.

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Ryan Fleming  wrote:

> Bill's Schwinn looks like it has Columbus tubing if I'm not mistaken
>
>
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 1:18:46 AM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> Fantastic thread, Bill!!
>> Really fun. Enjoying it immensely.
>> Makes me hungry to ride more.
>> A couple questions about the bikes:
>>
>> Schwinn:
>> 1. What kinda tubing is the frame?
>>
>> Orange Sam:
>> 2. You said you have lightweight wheels on it. What are they? Interested
>> to know.
>>
>> As for your concerns about your use of descriptive terms:
>> I am really glad you haven't used terms like "vertically compliant",
>> "laterally stiff", or "stoic", in your descriptions as they make me roll my
>> eyes when used. Haha!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Ryan Fleming]

Bill's Schwinn looks like it has Columbus tubing if I'm not mistaken

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 1:18:46 AM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> Fantastic thread, Bill!!
> Really fun. Enjoying it immensely.
> Makes me hungry to ride more.
> A couple questions about the bikes:
>
> Schwinn:
> 1. What kinda tubing is the frame?
>
> Orange Sam:
> 2. You said you have lightweight wheels on it. What are they? Interested 
> to know.
>
> As for your concerns about your use of descriptive terms:
> I am really glad you haven't used terms like "vertically compliant", 
> "laterally stiff", or "stoic", in your descriptions as they make me roll my 
> eyes when used. Haha! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[lum gim fong]

Fantastic thread, Bill!!
Really fun. Enjoying it immensely.
Makes me hungry to ride more.
A couple questions about the bikes:

Schwinn:
1. What kinda tubing is the frame?

Orange Sam:
2. You said you have lightweight wheels on it. What are they? Interested to 
know.

As for your concerns about your use of descriptive terms:
I am really glad you haven't used terms like "vertically compliant", "laterally 
stiff", or "stoic", in your descriptions as they make me roll my eyes when 
used. Haha! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Okay, thanks. I did not see the other post about the Tempo, so I missed the 
tire size. Going back to find it, I think pink is the move.

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 1:51:41 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Mark in Beacon asked if those tires that I called 650x38B were in fact 
> 38mm.  He also asked my BB height. 
>
> The tires are Soma New Express and measure a true 37mm on Pacenti PL23 
> rims.  
> The BB height by my reckoning is 262mm
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

I posted a full profile picture of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo.  In that post I 
said that I don't know what "turn-in" is.  Patrick Moore responded to that 
post, informing me that 'turn-in' is common knowledge.  Patrick Moore later 
asked for photos of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo, so I posted two alternative 
views.  Patrick Moore requested a full profile picture.  

Bringing it full-circle, here is the full profile picture of my 1985 
Schwinn Tempo, that anybody who views this list on a web browser can see, 
but you email users apparently can't find.  



BL in EC


On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 8:36:11 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Full profile view, please!
>
> I won't say I wish I still had mine, but I'd like to ride one again to 
> confirm or correct my memory that it handled nicely -- quicker than my Ram, 
> for instance, but stable in a straight line and turned in nicely. Or 
> perhaps 20 years intervening has turned memory into myth.
>
> Odd: mine could not handle a 26 (labeled; may well have been narrower) 
> tire in back without "modification."
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Here are a couple of photos of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo.  I worked at a 
>> Schwinn shop in the mid 1980s and remember this model fondly.  It was the 
>> nicest Schwinn road bike at the time that still had fender eyelets.  When I 
>> found one stock and almost NOS I jumped on it, and did a 650B conversion 
>> along with some other updates.  I like it a lot.  
>>
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:02:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought that was the Windsor -- Albatross bars? Oh well, must look 
>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

Mark in Beacon asked if those tires that I called 650x38B were in fact 
38mm.  He also asked my BB height. 

The tires are Soma New Express and measure a true 37mm on Pacenti PL23 
rims.  
The BB height by my reckoning is 262mm

BL in EC

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 5:51:19 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Bill, are those tires 38mm? And what is the bb height in mm, if you get a 
> chance. Thank you.
>
> On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 8:16:59 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Here are a couple of photos of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo.  I worked at a 
>> Schwinn shop in the mid 1980s and remember this model fondly.  It was the 
>> nicest Schwinn road bike at the time that still had fender eyelets.  When I 
>> found one stock and almost NOS I jumped on it, and did a 650B conversion 
>> along with some other updates.  I like it a lot.  
>>
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:02:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> I thought that was the Windsor -- Albatross bars? Oh well, must look 
>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Patrick Moore]

Full profile view, please!

I won't say I wish I still had mine, but I'd like to ride one again to
confirm or correct my memory that it handled nicely -- quicker than my Ram,
for instance, but stable in a straight line and turned in nicely. Or
perhaps 20 years intervening has turned memory into myth.

Odd: mine could not handle a 26 (labeled; may well have been narrower) tire
in back without "modification."

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

>
> 
>
>
> 
>
> Here are a couple of photos of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo.  I worked at a
> Schwinn shop in the mid 1980s and remember this model fondly.  It was the
> nicest Schwinn road bike at the time that still had fender eyelets.  When I
> found one stock and almost NOS I jumped on it, and did a 650B conversion
> along with some other updates.  I like it a lot.
>
>
> BL in EC
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:02:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I thought that was the Windsor -- Albatross bars? Oh well, must look
>> again.
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Bill, are those tires 38mm? And what is the bb height in mm, if you get a 
chance. Thank you.

On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 8:16:59 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
> Here are a couple of photos of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo.  I worked at a 
> Schwinn shop in the mid 1980s and remember this model fondly.  It was the 
> nicest Schwinn road bike at the time that still had fender eyelets.  When I 
> found one stock and almost NOS I jumped on it, and did a 650B conversion 
> along with some other updates.  I like it a lot.  
>
>
> BL in EC
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:02:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I thought that was the Windsor -- Albatross bars? Oh well, must look 
>> again.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

Here are a couple of photos of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo.  I worked at a 
Schwinn shop in the mid 1980s and remember this model fondly.  It was the 
nicest Schwinn road bike at the time that still had fender eyelets.  When I 
found one stock and almost NOS I jumped on it, and did a 650B conversion 
along with some other updates.  I like it a lot.  


BL in EC


On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 6:02:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I thought that was the Windsor -- Albatross bars? Oh well, must look again.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Patrick Moore]

I thought that was the Windsor -- Albatross bars? Oh well, must look again.

Mine probably didn't weigh much more than 22 lb, but it had a single fixed
gear and one brake.

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Patrick Moore,
>
> You responded to the post where I showed a photo of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo,
> converted to 650x38B.
>
> What did your frame weigh?  I'll compare it to mine when I strip it down
> for Litton.  My whole bike weighs a hair under 22 pounds.
>
> BL in EC
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore,

You responded to the post where I showed a photo of my 1985 Schwinn Tempo, 
converted to 650x38B. 

What did your frame weigh?  I'll compare it to mine when I strip it down for 
Litton.  My whole bike weighs a hair under 22 pounds.  

BL in EC

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like to see photos of the Tempo. I had one, also from the 80s, and the
frameset was heavy and had clearance only for skinny tires (I made a 700C
X26 fit under the rear brake bridge by adjusting the last with a hammer),
but it handled nicely. This was my first fixed gear bike, circa 1996.

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

>
> Now my daily commuter will be my 1985 Schwinn Tempo, which has the utter
> extravagance of a 2x6 drivetrain (6!).  It's a LOT lighter weight, which
> makes BART steps a lot more effortless.  The Tempo has 650x38B tires vs
> 700x28c on the Windsor, so that also is a luxury.  After I finish my 200
> miles on the Tempo I'm planning to take it to Ed Litton for cantilever
> brake posts and cable housing stops, which will finish up the last details
> of making it fully Rinko capable.  I might get it powder coated pink, and
> will definitely use a set of Resurrectio stickers when I do.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

Bike #6 is most certainly my least Rivish one.  It's a Niner Air9 Carbon 
hardtail mountain bike, currently set up with a rigid carbon fork.  






Riv content:  VERY little.  King Cage. Two bandannas.  Schwalbe Racing 
Ralph tires?  I threw down a baseline Strava time for the section that all 
the East Bay racers use to compare themselves.  The segment is called BHS 
Time Trial.  It's a very rocky very steep climb that's a little over a 
mile.  The best racers at El Cerrito High do it in <8 minutes.  I did a 
12:24, 8 seconds off my personal best.  I don't know for sure whether the 
rigid fork slowed me down, but it was really hard to pick a line without 
the benefit of just rolling up and over things with a shock.  I'll do that 
segment several more times during my 10x200 challenge, to see if I can see 
measurable benefits in speed.  I'd love to take a full minute off my 
personal best, and then think about getting under 10 minutes.  Only one 
rider in my 45-54 age group has ever gone <10min on Strava.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA



On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 5:49:44 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Yes, Steve, I am having a great deal of fun.  It is only pointless to the 
> extent that this particular structure of 200 miles on each of 10 bikes is 
> totally arbitrary.  The fact that this arbitrary structure leads me to get 
> on my bike more more often is not pointless.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Patrick Moore]

I think that my briefly- (18 months?) owned Sam was, like yours, a stt with
cantis, and a 59 cm tt. I wish I'd played around more with the stem length
and the bar position before selling it -- though there were other reasons
why I sold it, too, besides my gripe with the tt. But if I'd thought more
hard about sta icw ttl (figger it out), and if I had kept it long enough
for the Snoqualimie Passes to appear --- why, I might just have had me a
very wonderful allroad bike!

Not that I regret giving mine up for, eventually, the Matthews, since the
Matthews takes the fatter tires -- 50 mm + -- with fenders, that I really
do like for our bosque sand. But still, a Sam with Snoqalmie Pass tires
might be even better than an All Rounder with Rat Trap Passes.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Introducing Bike #5, another very dear old friend, my Samuel Hillborne.
> This was my first Rivendell, and it marked a significant inflection point
> in my cycling career.  I bought it in December 2009, and my cycling life
> could easily be separated into BH (Before Hillborne) and AH (After
> Hillborne).  Before Hillborne, I was a TTLZ, a Top Tube Length Zealot.  I
> would look at one number on a geo-chart, the effective top tube length.  If
> it was 56.5cm, it fit me.  If it was not 56.5cm, it did not fit me.  That's
> what I thought.  After Hillborne, I realized that you can't say anything
> about fit from top tube length alone and in isolation.  The biggest thing
> for Rivendells, in my opinion is seat tube angle.  Before Hillborne, I
> slammed the saddle all the way back, on every bike, all the time, because
> every other bike had a steep seat tube angle.  I believe that in December
> 2009 there was no other production 'road bike' on earth with a 71.5 degree
> seat tube angle.  There might still be no other non-Rivendell production
> bikes on Earth with a 71.5 degree seat tube angle.  Because the seat tube
> angle is slack, you'll run the saddle 1-2cm further forward, right in the
> middle of the rails, which looks great and fits.  Voila! You're top tube is
> 2cm shorter that you thought when you were a TTLZ.  Anyway, here's Sam, on
> my morning 40 mile commute through the East Bay Hills, with Fog-gust in
> full effect.
>
>
> 
>
> Every time I contemplate on a Rivendell Custom, I invariably end up
> defining a bike that is almost identical to my 56cm, single top tube,
> cantilever Hillborne.  For me in 2017, it is just about my perfect all-road
> bike.  38mm tires + fenders is ample for a sensible road bike.  After
> Hillborne, that's my attitude.  A road bike that only takes 32mm tires with
> fenders is most definitely a "racing bike" in my AH categories.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, Steve, I am having a great deal of fun.  It is only pointless to the 
extent that this particular structure of 200 miles on each of 10 bikes is 
totally arbitrary.  The fact that this arbitrary structure leads me to get 
on my bike more more often is not pointless.  This morning, I finished 
making my daughter breakfast, and I knew I wanted to get 25 to 30 miles in, 
and I said to myself "I need more coffee, and Ely is having a show at Lucky 
Duck".  I jumped on my bike and essentially ran an errand and paid a social 
visit and rode my bike 26 miles in civilian dress.  Without the arbitrary 
structure of a pointless challenge, I might have driven to get coffee and 
very likely would have skipped going to downtown Oakland.  

BL in EC

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 4:19:19 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> So are you having fun?  I get the sense that you are, and that this 
> self-challenge so far has been anything but pointless.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Steve Palincsar]

So are you having fun?  I get the sense that you are, and that this 
self-challenge so far has been anything but pointless.



On 08/12/2017 07:12 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:




Just for fun, here's a photo I took today of Sam in front of a urban 
mural in Oakland.  I've driven past this spot numerous times, thinking 
it was a cool spot for a bike portrait.  I was on my way down to Lucky 
Duck Bike Cafe in Downtown Oakland.  Ely Rodriguez of Ruthworks posted 
on Instagram that he would be down there showing some of his work, and 
working the repair stand.  I had a nice breakfast, and an even nicer 
visit with Ely.  I ordered a seat bag.  I'm 350 miles into the 2000 
mile challenge.  I should be able to wrap up 200 miles on bike #1 this 
week.  Have a nice weekend.


Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA



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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Jeremy Till]

Patrick Moore wrote:

 It's this quality that I've noticed all all 5 Rivendell bikes I've owned 
and that I think Grant ought to patent -- I'd love to see a video of his 
interaction with the patent office!
>
>
I think I found that video, actually: 

https://youtu.be/pnq96W9jtuw

"It's people like you, what causes unrest"

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[R Shannon]

Bill, thanks for your informative and enjoyable postings about your six
week long "adventure ride". Couldn't agree with you more about the
Hillborne. It would be a nearly impossible decision if I ever had to part
with the Sam or my Atlantis. Envious that you have the canti Sam!

Best wishes for fantastic rides!
Richard

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Introducing Bike #5, another very dear old friend, my Samuel Hillborne.
> This was my first Rivendell, and it marked a significant inflection point
> in my cycling career.  I bought it in December 2009, and my cycling life
> could easily be separated into BH (Before Hillborne) and AH (After
> Hillborne).  Before Hillborne, I was a TTLZ, a Top Tube Length Zealot.  I
> would look at one number on a geo-chart, the effective top tube length.  If
> it was 56.5cm, it fit me.  If it was not 56.5cm, it did not fit me.  That's
> what I thought.  After Hillborne, I realized that you can't say anything
> about fit from top tube length alone and in isolation.  The biggest thing
> for Rivendells, in my opinion is seat tube angle.  Before Hillborne, I
> slammed the saddle all the way back, on every bike, all the time, because
> every other bike had a steep seat tube angle.  I believe that in December
> 2009 there was no other production 'road bike' on earth with a 71.5 degree
> seat tube angle.  There might still be no other non-Rivendell production
> bikes on Earth with a 71.5 degree seat tube angle.  Because the seat tube
> angle is slack, you'll run the saddle 1-2cm further forward, right in the
> middle of the rails, which looks great and fits.  Voila! You're top tube is
> 2cm shorter that you thought when you were a TTLZ.  Anyway, here's Sam, on
> my morning 40 mile commute through the East Bay Hills, with Fog-gust in
> full effect.
>
>
> 
>
> Every time I contemplate on a Rivendell Custom, I invariably end up
> defining a bike that is almost identical to my 56cm, single top tube,
> cantilever Hillborne.  For me in 2017, it is just about my perfect all-road
> bike.  38mm tires + fenders is ample for a sensible road bike.  After
> Hillborne, that's my attitude.  A road bike that only takes 32mm tires with
> fenders is most definitely a "racing bike" in my AH categories.
>
>
> News flash for everyone.  This was my first 40 mile ride on Compass 38mm
> knobbies, the Steilacoom, and they are freaking fast on the road.  I could
> hear a faint hum, but since I'm using strava for everything, I can say
> these tires are not significantly slower than 650x42B Babyshoe Pass
> Extralights, set up tubeless, on my Niner Seven Fiver.  These Compass
> knobbies are kind of a secret weapon, to me.  They have great dirt and mud
> behavior, and you sacrifice essentially nothing on the road.  It's kind of
> like cheating.  I suspect they will also be much better for flat resistance
> and cuts, because there is a thick chunk of tread between you and the stuff
> on the ground.  Unlike thick treaded tires, knobbies can still be supple,
> because the casing between the knobs can flex.  The knobs themselves are
> wide and stout, so they don't squirm in hard cornering on pavement.  There
> is less rubber in contact with the ground, so I assume the limits of max
> adhesion might be less, but on this foggy morning, I didn't push it.
>
>
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>>
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/06/2017 03:26 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:


I won't be doing any super-technical ride reporting as it pertains to 
bike performance. I simply don't have the vernacular for it.  I have 
no idea what 'tunr-in' is.




You mean, besides a typo?   "Turn-in" would make sense; car reviews talk 
about it all the time.



I don't know what 'staid', 'tame', 'reluctant', 'nervous', 'willing', 
mean in any objective sense.  I feel like descriptions like that tell 
me a lot more about the person writing them than the machine they are 
on.  If I'm going to talk about me, I'll do it directly.  :-)





Perhaps that's why you never see those words in a BQ review...

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Re: [RBW] Re: 200 miles on 10 bikes, an essentially pointless self-challenge

[Patrick Moore]

This is a much reported quality on this list, whatever the name used: it's
the signature Rivendell feel of a bike that is stable on the straights, but
transitions to a turn without the least hint of hesitation or overeagerness
-- perfect balance in the transition. It's nothing really esoteric to
experience or describe. It's this quality that I've noticed all all 5
Rivendell bikes I've owned and that I think Grant ought to patent -- I'd
love to see a video of his interaction with the patent office!

At any rate, enough people on this list recognize it and report it that it
can fairly be considered "in the thing" and not merely "in the head."

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> ...  I have no idea what 'tunr-in' is.  I don't know what 'staid', 'tame',
> 'reluctant', 'nervous', 'willing', mean in any objective sense.  I feel
> like descriptions like that tell me a lot more about the person writing
> them than the machine they are on.
>

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