subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Re\: Roadini\!"

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-03-16 Thread Richard Rose

Patrick, I humbly suggest that the Clem (and apparently Roadini) “liveliness & smoothness” you reference & that I can attest to is due to geometry rather than the tubing spec. As I am typing this I am recalling that Richard Sachs for a long time not only refused to use tubing stickers but did not even like to talk about tubing selections. When asked which tubes he used his frequent response was “the right ones”. This of course was prior to the “Pego Richie” tubing era. I distinctly remember my Clem L test ride, several years after selling my Sachs. In spite of the radically different position of the Clem my very first thought was “I’ve got my Sachs back”.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 15, 2024, at 9:42 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for you. The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my (2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt." Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple 450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is hugely overbuilt, while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems). Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road was too stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.  Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape with gel

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-03-16 Thread Josh (BertoBerg)

Hi Jay-

Lovin’ the build! Thanks for sharing your impressions. The orange paint 
with the green bar tape looks great. 

I just put 32mm Corsa Pros on my Waterford Homer. I’ve only ever ridden it 
on 38mm+ gravel tires so I’m super excited to feel what it’s like on a more 
road-oriented tire.

Have fun out there!

Josh
Seattle, WA

On Friday, March 15, 2024 at 6:42:04 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for 
> you. The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.
>
> Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that 
> with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect 
> ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my 
> (2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt." 
> Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple 
> 450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I 
> immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out 
> stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on 
> the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is *hugely* 
> overbuilt, 
> while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has 
> slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems). 
>
> Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the 
> Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks 
> made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't 
> notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the 
> Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.
>
> Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the 
> Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout 
> and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter 
> tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that 
> the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter 
> tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again 
> and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness 
> and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road *was* too 
> stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that 
> replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.
>
>
>
> Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:
> *The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of 
> things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross 
> Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love 
> it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much 
> lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit 
> issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth, 
> maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up 
> to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the 
> cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little 
> suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an 
> option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime 
> the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly 
> streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails 
> where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter 
> the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated 
> way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I 
> recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.  
> Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went 
> where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line 
> predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift 
> with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was 
> very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two 
> gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable 
> using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and 
> the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my 
> road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch 
> below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs 
> discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does 
> not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim 
> brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape 
> with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up 
> is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel 
> placement with

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-03-15 Thread Patrick Moore

Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for you.
The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.

Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that
with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect
ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my
(2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt."
Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple
450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I
immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out
stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on
the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is *hugely*
overbuilt,
while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has
slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems).

Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the
Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks
made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't
notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the
Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.

Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the
Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout
and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter
tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that
the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter
tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again
and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness
and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road *was* too
stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that
replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.



Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:
*The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of
things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross
Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love
it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much
lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit
issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth,
maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up
to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the
cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little
suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an
option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime
the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly
streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails
where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter
the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated
way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I
recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.
Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went
where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line
predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift
with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was
very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two
gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable
using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and
the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my
road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch
below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs
discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does
not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim
brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape
with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up
is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel
placement with these hoods.  The 30F/32R gearing is perfect for the
steepest hills where this bike will be ridden.  I've went on long enough so
I'll stop there.  Word of the day - "smooth" :-)*


Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-03-08 Thread Chris Fly

Velo Orange also makes a 31.8 removable clamp quill stem that works pretty
well, I have one of my AHH.. but I like your solution as well!

https://velo-orange.com/collections/quill-stems/products/quill-stem-with-removable-faceplate-31-8mm?variant=52981508999

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 4:13 PM Collin A  wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Looks awesome! The dark gold and celeste/seafoam bar tape is a combo I
> didn't think would look good, but I'm a fan!
>
> If you want a more svelte headset solution you can try one of these out:  
> innicycle
> - Threadless Conversion Headset™ 
>
> I used one on an old trek conversion years ago and it worked great.
>
> Collin in Bezerkely
>
> On Friday, March 8, 2024 at 3:34:52 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>
>> I think I finally landed on a saddle, and stem.  I've been trying to find
>> a more comfortable saddle on all bikes for a while now.  I tried the C17 on
>> my Salsa and it was very good.  Bought one in orange for the Roadini and I
>> think it looks decent.  Two 1.5hr rides and can confirm it's comfortable.
>> I ordered a -17 degree stem as I'm using 31.8 bars and a stem adaptor, and
>> knew where I wanted the bars located and this stem worked out well.
>> Hopefully this is it for a while!
>>
>> If I could go back I would change a few things aesthetically, but not the
>> parts themselves -- bike rides really nice and I feel good during and after
>> the ride.
>>
>> [image: Roadini 1.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> [image: Roadini 2.jpeg]
>> On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 11:41:45 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire
>>> clearance (if any)?
>>>
>>> I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found
>>> someone selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works
>>> surprisingly well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but
>>> since I'm getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with
>>> that.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:01:38 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this
 week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm
 shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for
 on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I
 want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars
 forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).

 Shout out to C Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and
 patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after
 good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out
 for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and
 accessories).

 *Colour*: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm
 happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially
 wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape;
 maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods
 with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something
 different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame.
 This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade
 darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it
 gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like
 sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to
 use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).

 *Build*: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos
 below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really
 liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on
 this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they
 measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in
 the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a
 bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on
 today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add
 though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm
 fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is
 faster than me (more to come on this!).

 *The Ride*: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole
 bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the
 Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC,
 and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride,
 was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).
 Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so
 smooth, maybe

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-03-08 Thread Collin A

Jay,

Looks awesome! The dark gold and celeste/seafoam bar tape is a combo I 
didn't think would look good, but I'm a fan!

If you want a more svelte headset solution you can try one of these out:  
innicycle 
- Threadless Conversion Headset™ 

I used one on an old trek conversion years ago and it worked great.

Collin in Bezerkely

On Friday, March 8, 2024 at 3:34:52 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> I think I finally landed on a saddle, and stem.  I've been trying to find 
> a more comfortable saddle on all bikes for a while now.  I tried the C17 on 
> my Salsa and it was very good.  Bought one in orange for the Roadini and I 
> think it looks decent.  Two 1.5hr rides and can confirm it's comfortable. 
>  I ordered a -17 degree stem as I'm using 31.8 bars and a stem adaptor, and 
> knew where I wanted the bars located and this stem worked out well. 
>  Hopefully this is it for a while!
>
> If I could go back I would change a few things aesthetically, but not the 
> parts themselves -- bike rides really nice and I feel good during and after 
> the ride.
>
> [image: Roadini 1.jpeg]
>
>
> [image: Roadini 2.jpeg]
> On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 11:41:45 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire 
>> clearance (if any)?
>>
>> I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found someone 
>> selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works surprisingly 
>> well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but since I'm 
>> getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with that.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:01:38 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this 
>>> week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm 
>>> shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for 
>>> on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I 
>>> want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars 
>>> forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).
>>>
>>> Shout out to C Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and 
>>> patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after 
>>> good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out 
>>> for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and 
>>> accessories).
>>>
>>> *Colour*: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm 
>>> happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially 
>>> wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape; 
>>> maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods 
>>> with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something 
>>> different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame. 
>>>  This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade 
>>> darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it 
>>> gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like 
>>> sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to 
>>> use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).
>>>
>>> *Build*: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos 
>>> below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really 
>>> liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on 
>>> this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they 
>>> measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in 
>>> the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a 
>>> bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on 
>>> today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add 
>>> though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm 
>>> fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is 
>>> faster than me (more to come on this!).
>>>
>>> *The Ride*: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole 
>>> bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the 
>>> Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, 
>>> and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, 
>>> was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight). 
>>>  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so 
>>> smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on 
>>> the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed 
>>> out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a 
>>> little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as 
>>> an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-02-12 Thread Piaw Na

Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire clearance 
(if any)?

I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found someone 
selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works surprisingly 
well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but since I'm 
getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with that.

On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:01:38 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this 
> week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm 
> shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for 
> on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I 
> want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars 
> forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).
>
> Shout out to C Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and 
> patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after 
> good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out 
> for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and 
> accessories).
>
> *Colour*: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm 
> happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially 
> wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape; 
> maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods 
> with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something 
> different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame. 
>  This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade 
> darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it 
> gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like 
> sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to 
> use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).
>
> *Build*: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos 
> below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really 
> liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on 
> this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they 
> measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in 
> the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a 
> bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on 
> today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add 
> though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm 
> fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is 
> faster than me (more to come on this!).
>
> *The Ride*: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch 
> of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly 
> Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I 
> love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was 
> much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight). 
>  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so 
> smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on 
> the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed 
> out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a 
> little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as 
> an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and 
> anytime the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, 
> squirly streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the 
> trails where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it. 
>  Enter the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it 
> accelerated way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from 
> what I recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was 
> moving.  Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just 
> went where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line 
> predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift 
> with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was 
> very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two 
> gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable 
> using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and 
> the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my 
> road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch 
> below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs 
> discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does 
> not need discs at all

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

2024-01-23 Thread jaredwilson

Love this build, and good info as I'm also 6'1 with an 89cm PBH.

Hope you get tons of lovely miles out of this beaut!

jared

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 7:28:29 PM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> Solid bike, Brent! So glad to see how nicely it turned out, especially 
> with that gorgeous silver drivetrain.
>
> I've got about 300ish miles on my Roadini now and I couldn't be happier. 
> Oddly enough, I have been spending more time on my Hillborne because I 
> don't want to feel guilty by leaving it in the garage. Can't wait to hear 
> your impression by the end of the summer.almost wondering if you'll 
> prefer the Leo to the Sam.
>
> Happy trails,
> Tony
>
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:27:41 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Took the Roadini for a 3 mile test ride and safety check and got some 
>> initial impressions. 
>>
>> 1. It felt expectedly similar to my Sam. The cockpit was a direct swap 
>> from Sam to Leo, makes sense. I bombed a lil hill that turned into gravel, 
>> felt very stable even when a dog ran out at me to join at my flank. I then 
>> climbed a steep street, seated in 36Fx30R, which is promising knowing I 
>> have a 24t option in front and will climb longer/steeper. If I stripped my 
>> Sam and put on slicks I’d be just as fast. Do I regret building this bike? 
>> Not yet and not likely. 
>>
>> 2. This seat won’t suit me for longer rides. My sit bones felt like they 
>> were on a wood beam. 
>>
>> 3. Even with the tall stack, sloped top tube, and my long arms, I still 
>> wished my hoods were 2” closer to me. 
>>
>> Sunshine has yet to hit this bike.  ¯\_(˘͡ ˘̯)_/¯ 
>>
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Jay  wrote:
>>
>> Looks great.  You have me questioning the Dark Gold I selected ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:36:11 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For the seat height inquiries:
>>>
>>> Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini 
>>> has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the 
>>> Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to 
>>> compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 
>>> 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. 
>>>
>>> I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH 
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:
>>>
>>> Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, 
>>> please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially 
>>> when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is 
>>> curious about this comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but 
 it was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.

 It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
 snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
 components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
 parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
 that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
 highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
 educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).


 -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-01-22 Thread Tony Lockhart

@Patrick - Leo is a bit more nimble and rigid to a comparably spec'd Sam. 
Sam seems a bit more flexy, especially with out of the seat climbing. Seems 
like the Sam is all over the place when it comes to steering--my Leo seems 
to track way better at low speeds. For context, I've had a million setups 
on my Sam during the last 14 years and it's currently running a flat bar, 
2x8 setup, on 44mm RH tires. My Leo is running a drop bar, 3x8 setup, and 
32mm Pasela TGs.38mm Shikoros arriving this Wednesday. Sam used to have 
the same parts currently on the Leo. I think the differences are very 
slightboth bikes are amazing.

@Jay - Congrats on the purchase--you picked a winner. Like you, I also 
purchased a dark gold 57cm frame. I couldn't be happier. Leo is a champ.
On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 5:32:46 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?
>
> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini differ 
> from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it would be 
> interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the Roadini.
>
> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning 
> that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a 
> 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so 
> I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and 
> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>
>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my 
>> Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
>> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
>> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
>> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light 
>> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
>> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
>>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
>>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
>>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>>>
>>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
>>> have on it.. 
>>>
>>> Chris 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
 like a good place...my new happy place ;-)

 I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
 sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
 be visiting Montreal.

 Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
 though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
 those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
 wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
 winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL 
 brake 
 levers, and Tektro brakes.

 Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
 but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on 
 local 
 mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
 be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!

 Photos to come in February.  

>>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c7c5a6a8-47f6-4e66-ba7e-73872cad2208n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

2024-01-22 Thread Tony Lockhart

Solid bike, Brent! So glad to see how nicely it turned out, especially with 
that gorgeous silver drivetrain.

I've got about 300ish miles on my Roadini now and I couldn't be happier. 
Oddly enough, I have been spending more time on my Hillborne because I 
don't want to feel guilty by leaving it in the garage. Can't wait to hear 
your impression by the end of the summer.almost wondering if you'll 
prefer the Leo to the Sam.

Happy trails,
Tony

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:27:41 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Took the Roadini for a 3 mile test ride and safety check and got some 
> initial impressions. 
>
> 1. It felt expectedly similar to my Sam. The cockpit was a direct swap 
> from Sam to Leo, makes sense. I bombed a lil hill that turned into gravel, 
> felt very stable even when a dog ran out at me to join at my flank. I then 
> climbed a steep street, seated in 36Fx30R, which is promising knowing I 
> have a 24t option in front and will climb longer/steeper. If I stripped my 
> Sam and put on slicks I’d be just as fast. Do I regret building this bike? 
> Not yet and not likely. 
>
> 2. This seat won’t suit me for longer rides. My sit bones felt like they 
> were on a wood beam. 
>
> 3. Even with the tall stack, sloped top tube, and my long arms, I still 
> wished my hoods were 2” closer to me. 
>
> Sunshine has yet to hit this bike.  ¯\_(˘͡ ˘̯)_/¯ 
>
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Looks great.  You have me questioning the Dark Gold I selected ;-)
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:36:11 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> For the seat height inquiries:
>>
>> Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini 
>> has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the 
>> Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to 
>> compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 
>> 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. 
>>
>> I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH 
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>> Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, 
>> please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially 
>> when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is 
>> curious about this comparison.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but 
>>> it was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.
>>>
>>> It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
>>> snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
>>> components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
>>> parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
>>> that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
>>> highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
>>> educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/L8xUk1J4c7k/unsubscribe
>> .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/586aa6cd-94e5-4e98-8af8-3bd1a4c6010bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

2024-01-22 Thread Jay

While I'm not concerned with the weight I'll land on after the build, I 
would like to keep up with my friend who I ride weekly with.  He's good 
going my speed (he's naturally faster), and I'm hoping the speed on this 
bike isn't much lower than my current road bike.  Like many say, it's the 
total weight including the rider that counts...so I started eating better 
since ordering the frame to see if total weight is the same, or better!  I 
do have a second wheel set I'm planning to use, occasionally, and those 
wheels together with then 30mm tires will be lighter, and have better hubs 
(will be interesting to see how they feel when riding compared to the other 
wheels with 43mm GKSS).

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:34:41 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> It weighed 23 pounds with pump, water bottle cage, pedals but no toolkit: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/putting-together-my-roadini.html
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 5:32 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?
>>
>> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini 
>> differ from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it 
>> would be interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the 
>> Roadini.
>>
>> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning 
>> that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a 
>> 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so 
>> I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and 
>> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat 
>>> my Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
>>> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
>>> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
>>> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light 
>>> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
>>> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
 shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
 shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I 
 don't 
 even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 

 I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group 
 I have on it.. 

 Chris 

 On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this 
> sounds like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For 
> now though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be 
> using those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some 
> handbill wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my 
> Fargo 
> in the winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro 
> RRL brake levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on 
> local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c7c5a6a8-47f6-4e66-ba7e-73872cad2208n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

2024-01-22 Thread Jay

Looks great.  You have me questioning the Dark Gold I selected ;-)

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:36:11 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> For the seat height inquiries:
>
> Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini 
> has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the 
> Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to 
> compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 
> 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. 
>
> I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH 
>
> On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:
>
> Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, 
> please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially 
> when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is 
> curious about this comparison.
>
>
>
> John
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but it 
>> was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.
>>
>> It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
>> snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
>> components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
>> parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
>> that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
>> highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
>> educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).
>>
>>
>> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

2024-01-22 Thread Brenton Eastman

For the seat height inquiries:Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman wrote:Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is curious about this comparison.JohnOn Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but it was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).

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