Re: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
FWIW, a guy a Seagate told me they've found that tapes wear pretty quickly in these things and that I should probably be replacing them more often than I am. We cycle four different magazines through this thing and I was just about to replace them when one got eaten. A production set of DAT tapes normally last us a year so I figured that AIT's would too. Guess I was wrong! :-) (Sorry for the slow response...) Let me just ask you, we're looking into getting an AIT, isn't it Sony that are doing all the technology stuff and other brands, like Seagate and LaCie put Sonys technology inside the box and their own name on the utside? / jakob -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
AFAIK, you are correct. All these guys are OEMing Sony's mechanism into their boxes. BTW, Seagate isn't making the Sidewinder200 anymore. The reason we went with Seagate's box is because we've had very good experiences with their tech support and service. And indeed they came through in this case too - I had an advance replacement the next day, no questions asked. I like that. :-) Let me just ask you, we're looking into getting an AIT, isn't it Sony that are doing all the technology stuff and other brands, like Seagate and LaCie put Sonys technology inside the box and their own name on the utside? / jakob -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
Seagate has stopped selling AIT units (although you can still buy leftover stock in the channels). All AIT heads are made by Sony but other companies do add-value. For instance, we have an optional two line, 40 column LCD not available on a "stock" Sony. It has two processors instead of one. The display works even if the drive should lock up for any reason. The diag ability can really be handy. We can also take two or more of the AIT units and provide modes like mirroring, striping, off-line tape duplication/verify and single mode. Moral of the story? Not all AIT units are created equal, even if the heads are all made by Sony. (Shelby is to Ford as Cybernetics is to Sony - super tuners.) Also, not all companies will allow you to take your single Sony drive and install it into a tape library later. Be sure to ask your vendor if they will give you that type of scalability. We were the very first company to introduce AIT in the USA back in 1996. We've had excellent success with the technology ever since. Because of our true OEM relationship (not just a reseller), we also have stock on the hard to get AIT-2 tapes! We also provide our services/enhancements to Exabyte, Quantum, HP, Hitachi and other storage manufacturers. Take care! Steve www.cybernetics.com PS - The small four tape library uses a special version of the AIT drive inside - not a stock one. This means you can't swap the mech out at will. One would be better off with the fifteen tape loader -- it's only about $200 more and uses standard mechs which can be replaced/upgraded in the field. (Easier to move from AIT-2 to AIT-3, etc. -- not to mention the extra eleven slots!) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of jakob krabbe Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 8:36 AM To: retro-talk Subject: Re: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences? (Sorry for the slow response...) Let me just ask you, we're looking into getting an AIT, isn't it Sony that are doing all the technology stuff and other brands, like Seagate and LaCie put Sonys technology inside the box and their own name on the utside? / jakob -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
I have a different solution: two AIT drives. 1. If one drive fails for some reason, you can still run backup and do restores. 2. You can always have a blank tape in the second drive just waiting until it's needed. 3. You can double overnight and weekend backup with two tapes. 4. You're not dependent on a loader plus tape drive. 5. It's a lot less expensive to buy a second tape drive than to invest in a loader. 6. If you outgrow two drives, adding a third may still be less costly than investing in a loader. We're backing up 80+ Macs daily, everything from servers (about 25 GB capacity) to design computers (up to 50 GB on those) and anything else (160 MB to 10 GB). Thanks to data compression, our initial backup usually fills two tapes, running into a third the day after that, then slowly filling a five-tape set over a one-month period. Then we start over again. Dan Knight, information systems manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baker Book House Company http://www.bakerbooks.com 6030 East Fulton 616-676-9185 x146 Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573 - Saved by grace -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
On 5/3/00 18:23 ed hintz via email account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] stated the following... I'm running a system with about 100 cpus. To this point we've been using a single AIT2 drive, and doing a lot of tape changing to deal with backups -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
Funny you should mention this.
Our Seagate AIT loader that has been chugging away for about a year just
died. Found it ate a tape and I had to perform surgery to get the
magazine out - force eject didn't work.
FWIW, a guy a Seagate told me they've found that tapes wear pretty quickly
in these things and that I should probably be replacing them more often
than I am. We cycle four different magazines through this thing and I was
just about to replace them when one got eaten. A production set of DAT
tapes normally last us a year so I figured that AIT's would too. Guess I
was wrong! :-)
All in all though we've been pretty happy with it and Seagates support
too. They're advance replacing me a new unit which sould be here today -
I should note that I got the tape-eater working again but Seagate insisted
on replacing it. It certainly is pretty cool just to slam a magazine in
the thing and change it every monday morning - I can basically forget
about it.
The only thing I can think of that would be *cooler* is if Retrospect read
those little chips on the AIT tapes. It can take several minutes for
retrospect to query a new magazine because it actually has to read tape.
hint, hint.
Also, anybody have a solution for notification of failures? I've
been
toying with hacking up an applescript solution to my pager, but if
someone's
already done it... ;-)
OK, that would be cooler still!
HTH,
Mark Maytum
Pompanoosuc Mills Corporation
"ed hintz" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/03/00 06:23 PM
Please respond to "retro-talk"
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
Howdy,
I'm running a system with about 100 cpus. To this point we've been
using
a single AIT2 drive, and doing a lot of tape changing to deal with
backups.
However, we're still growing and it seems the single drive solution is
starting to show it's inadequacy for our needs. So, we're looking into
solutions.
We're currently running a Cybernetics library for our unix systems,
under Arkeia (since there was no dantz solution-hint hint) ;-). For the
most
part we've been happy with it, but it does exhibit occasional quirks. We
like the idea of a tape library, as it allows for full automation with
less
chances for user error. What I'd be very interested in hearing are any
real
world experiences with Retrospect and AIT tape libraries. Good or bad.
Before we plunk down that kind of cash we'd like to make the decision as
informed as possible. We're currently dealing with about 300+gigs total
data(full backups take 3-4 weekends, with one AIT2 per weekend, nightly
incrementals are around 6gigs), but expect that to grow rather quickly and
want to leave some headroom. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
Also, anybody have a solution for notification of failures? I've been
toying with hacking up an applescript solution to my pager, but if
someone's
already done it... ;-)
Thanks in advance folks...
Regards,
Ed Hintz
Geek Guy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
(Bob said: "I attempted to post a message to the "Retro-Talk " mailing list this morning and experienced some difficultyPossibly you can pass this onto the responsible party..?" So, here's his post. Craig) On 5/3/00 18:23 ed hintz via email account: [EMAIL PROTECTED] stated the following... I'm running a system with about 100 cpus. To this point we've been using a single AIT2 drive, and doing a lot of tape changing to deal with backups. However, we're still growing and it seems the single drive solution is starting to show it's inadequacy for our needs. So, we're looking into solutions. Also, anybody have a solution for notification of failures? I've been toying with hacking up an applescript solution to my pager, but if someone's already done it... ;-) Hello Ed, We have several SONY TSL-SA300C AIT (1) Tape Library (Magazine holds 4 tapes). Have been using them for over a year now and we are quite pleased with the performance and reliability of the robotics and the tape mech itself. However this solution is limited by the 4 tape magazine. A few months ago I evaluated the Spectralogic TreeFrog AIT library and found it to be a KILLER Hardware solutionWe will be transitioning to this product in the next few months. For further info on the "TreeFrog" see: http://www.spectralogic.com/treefrog/treefrog.htm I hope this is helpful! Fraternally, ... Bob -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AIT tape loaders-any real world experiences?
Actually, tape loaders are very inexpensive -- a 15 tape library chassis costs less than a second AIT-2 drive. You can't beat the redundancy of two drives though (a lot of customers will put two AIT drives into a single tape library - the chance of both drives going south at the same time is extremely small). Today's libraries are built knowing AIT-3 and 4 are coming. You can replace the AIT-1 or 2 drive with the upcoming generations in the field. This gives you scalability -- and allows you to keep your investment in the loader. If anyone wants information on converting existing single drive unit(s) to a library, please e-mail me. Steve Cybernetics I have a different solution: two AIT drives. 1. If one drive fails for some reason, you can still run backup and do restores. 2. You can always have a blank tape in the second drive just waiting until it's needed. 3. You can double overnight and weekend backup with two tapes. 4. You're not dependent on a loader plus tape drive. 5. It's a lot less expensive to buy a second tape drive than to invest in a loader. 6. If you outgrow two drives, adding a third may still be less costly than investing in a loader. We're backing up 80+ Macs daily, everything from servers (about 25 GB capacity) to design computers (up to 50 GB on those) and anything else (160 MB to 10 GB). Thanks to data compression, our initial backup usually fills two tapes, running into a third the day after that, then slowly filling a five-tape set over a one-month period. Then we start over again. Dan Knight, information systems manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baker Book House Company http://www.bakerbooks.com 6030 East Fulton 616-676-9185 x146 Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573 - Saved by grace -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Problems?: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
