Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Eclison Tolentino]

Well... I am one of those "not so bright" on the list. I read a lot,
understand a little, and move on. But the thing that I ALWAYS do, is that I
do keep them e-mails. I cannot even say that I have a "personal" e-mail:
all the personal stuff went elsewhere, and this here is all about geology,
crys'phy, teaching and the like. Since it is old fashioned (sorry, Alan!),
it is sober, clean and respected. Facebook is where I go for kitty videos,
jokes, parties, remembering birthdays and the like.

A serious-to-the-letter Rietvield community on facebook would be like
inviting a dog to play, and then complaining when he barks at you. It just
would not accomplish the expected results, since facebook (and his
step-clones) are oh so full of distractions and advertisements, and
distractions, and kitty videos, and the like. At least, thats the way I see
it.

Good day to you all!

E.


2015-06-13 13:18 GMT-03:00 Darren Broom :

>  Well, maybe it is just me, then!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Darren
>
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* james.cl...@nist.gov
> *Sent:* Thu, 11 Jun 2015 17:03:53 +
> *To:* rietveld_l@ill.fr
> *Subject:* RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
>  Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> James P. Cline
> Materials Measurement Science Division
> National Institute of Standards and Technology
> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
> jcl...@nist.gov
> (301) 975 5793
> FAX (301) 975 5334
>
>
>
> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] *On
> Behalf Of *Darren Broom
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
> *To:* Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
> *Subject:* Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
>
>
> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally
> only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the
> two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.
>
> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Darren
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
> *Sent:* Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
> *To:* rietveld_l@ill.fr
> *Subject:* Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
> points.
>
>
>
> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind
> enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my
> life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But
> I am very happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format
> is chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by
> kindly answering my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same
> for other newcomers.
>
>
>
> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think
> that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish
> to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats
> are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow
> for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time
> passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work
> or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if
> not frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive.
>
>
>
> I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to
> move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
> consideration?
>  --
>
> *From:* rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf
> of Daxu Liu 
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
> *To:* Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
> *Subject:* Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
>
>
> Dear prof. Suescun,
>
> I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an
> enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
>
> Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and
> some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of
> them. However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she
> maybe study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy
> on the Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to
> write to some people for help because I can not solve some problems even
> after I searched the answers in Google or other search engines. I am very
> appreciated for those people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H.

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Darren Broom]

Well, maybe it is just me, then!Best regards,Darren-Original Message-From: james.cl...@nist.govSent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 17:03:53 +To: rietveld_l@ill.frSubject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
 
Jim
 
 

James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division  
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523    USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

 


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr]
On Behalf Of Darren Broom
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook


 
On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.

For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.

Best regards,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook




As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few points. 
 
I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am very happy to be a member and
 will gladly learn/join whatever format is chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other newcomers. 
 
I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format,
 for example, would not allow for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if not
 frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive. 
 
I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for consideration?





From:
rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> on behalf of Daxu Liu <daxu...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook 

 





Dear prof. Suescun,


I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!


Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them. However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe study oneself,
 and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to some people for help because I can not solve some problems even after I searched the answers in Google or other search engines.
 I am very appreciated for those people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable and kind people.


I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the web and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, which are colsely related to my research areas.


In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will be possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his or her some basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ).


Best regards, Daxu

 






From: Leopoldo Suescun <leopo...@fq.edu.uy>
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" <rietveld_l@ill.fr>

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook


 



Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for assistance in facebook. 


One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students whose knowledge was evidently
 far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful refinement, or question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for a very young and untrained student to join our list and ask very basic questions.


I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never come to us on a first bas

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Daniel Chateigner]

So as, perhaps, to summarize:

Everybody is happy if he can find the best way for him to communicate

Countries' censures can be best bypassed using multiplication of 
communication ways


Scientific data preservation is best ensured over long times by this 
multiplication


Diversity is not bad, if these multiple tools could communicate to each 
others, it would be a must !


My conclusion:
I do prefer facing a book than facebooking, but seeing happy peoples 
using it I might change my mind !


amitiés à tous
daniel

Le 12/06/2015 10:11, Alan Hewat a écrit :


After all this discussion, the post on Anomalous Scattering 
illustrates both the interest and the limitations of the Rietveld 
mailing list.


1. It shows that a good question will rapidly receive answers from 
experts in the field.
2. Both question and answers will be read by a large number of others, 
because they receive a personal email, wherever they are in the world, 
even without high speed internet.
3. And the discussion is archived on a public WWW server that is open 
to everyone, not just list members. This is important in that Google 
indexes it, so people will find it long after.


It also illustrates the disadvantages of which others have complained :-)

1. This discussion would have profited if illustrations were allowed. 
However, one answer linked to a more complete discussion that included 
illustrations. That is the way I think it should work.
2. The answers were perhaps a little too technical for the 
inexperienced student. Experts should be able to express complex ideas 
in ways that at least show beginners where to start. But that is not 
the fault of the list format.


I encourage those who think they have a better solution to go for it, 
but also warn them that others have tried :-) Jon mentioned the SPDP 
list as a good example. The SPDP list is also an archived email list, 
though the archive is members only. Armel, who is still a member of 
the Rietveld list. also tried other solutions, and concluded "a 
web-based SDPD forum was first opened, which had a limited success 
probably because there was no email distribution: subscribers had to 
go to the web pages and see if there was a new discussion".


Those who object to email simply because it's been around a long time, 
may equally well object to me :-) But I receive my emails instantly on 
my Android 5.0 phone, wherever I am, just like SMS, Tweets or 
whatever. So, if it helps, just think of email as a kind of bigger tweet.


Re-invent the wheel - and name it something else. Alan.

Sent from my phone.
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat 
__



--

--
Daniel Chateigner
Professeur, Université de Caen Basse-Normandie
http://www.ecole.ensicaen.fr/~chateign/danielc/
--
Editor: "Combined Analysis", Wiley-ISTE: 
http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1848211988.html
Workshops on Combined Analysis: 
http://www.ecole.ensicaen.fr/~chateign/formation/
Advisory Board: Zeitschrift für Kristallographie
--
Address:
CRISMAT-ENSICAEN and IUT-Caen,
Université de Caen Basse-Normandie, campus 2
6, Bd. M. Juin 14050 Caen, France
tel: 33 (0)2 31 45 26 11
fax: 33 (0)2 31 95 16 00
daniel.chateig...@ensicaen.fr
--
Open Databases:
Full-Profile Search-Match: http://cod.iutcaen.unicaen.fr/
Material Properties Open Database (MPOD): http://www.materialproperties.org/
Crystallography Open Database (COD): http://sdpd.univ-lemans.fr/cod/
  Theoretical (TCOD): http://sdpd.univ-lemans.fr/cod/tcod/
  Predicted   (PCOD): http://sdpd.univ-lemans.fr/cod/pcod/
--

++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Hewat]

After all this discussion, the post on Anomalous Scattering illustrates
both the interest and the limitations of the Rietveld mailing list.

1. It shows that a good question will rapidly receive answers from experts
in the field.
2. Both question and answers will be read by a large number of others,
because they receive a personal email, wherever they are in the world, even
without high speed internet.
3. And the discussion is archived on a public WWW server that is open to
everyone, not just list members. This is important in that Google indexes
it, so people will find it long after.

It also illustrates the disadvantages of which others have complained :-)

1. This discussion would have profited if illustrations were allowed.
However, one answer linked to a more complete discussion that included
illustrations. That is the way I think it should work.
2. The answers were perhaps a little too technical for the inexperienced
student. Experts should be able to express complex ideas in ways that at
least show beginners where to start. But that is not the fault of the list
format.

I encourage those who think they have a better solution to go for it, but
also warn them that others have tried :-) Jon mentioned the SPDP list as a
good example. The SPDP list is also an archived email list, though the
archive is members only. Armel, who is still a member of the Rietveld list.
also tried other solutions, and concluded "a web-based SDPD forum was first
opened, which had a limited success probably because there was no email
distribution: subscribers had to go to the web pages and see if there was a
new discussion".

Those who object to email simply because it's been around a long time, may
equally well object to me :-) But I receive my emails instantly on my
Android 5.0 phone, wherever I am, just like SMS, Tweets or whatever. So, if
it helps, just think of email as a kind of bigger tweet.

Re-invent the wheel - and name it something else. Alan.

Sent from my phone.
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++

RE: Politics-RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Radovan Cerny]

If I were on Facebook I would say "Like it".

I add my thanks too.

Radovan


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

-Message d'origine-
De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Lubomir Smrcok
Envoyé : vendredi 12 juin 2015 07:12
À : chenhh
Cc : rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: Politics-RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks for adding just this comment ! While reading it I have realized that the 
group is mostly populated by people who have either never experienced open 
censoring of their communication (OK, some big brothering is everywhere) or 
have already forgotten those times (Eastern Europe).
Your opinion must be taken into account very seriously when thinking of 
face-booking of this group.
Best,
Lubo


On Fri, 12 Jun 2015, chenhh wrote:

> Hello!
> After finishing so many excellent discussion, I think a trivial appeared  
> but serious indeed problem is omitted. That is politics. In fact, Facebook, 
> Youtube,and even Google load or cover many contents forbidden  by some 
> countries, so the goverments stop  their people to visit the whole sites 
> though they also know there are still many useful things on them, but they 
> can't  support the selection of the so called good things for their people . 
> Of course, the managers of the above sites also reject to filter the contens 
> forbidden  by the country law.
>
> So I think at least the maillist is better now but not Facebook or 
> other so called "free"states, unless you want to set up a site only 
> for USA,UK and some other countries. well, if so, I think it is 
> Rietveld group of the WEST, but not Rietveld group of the WORLD, :))
>
> Dr.Haohong Chen
>
> Shanghai Institute of Ceramics
>
> CAS
>
> P.R.China
>
>
>
> === 2015-06-11 19:29:00 ===
>
>> Well,
>> Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two 
>> different ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to 
>> take a selfie while typing.
>> Lubo
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> James P. Cline
>>> Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of 
>>> Standards and Technology
>>> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
>>> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
>>> jcl...@nist.gov
>>> (301) 975 5793
>>> FAX (301) 975 5334
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] 
>>> On Behalf Of Darren Broom
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
>>> To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I 
>>> generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to 
>>> avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.
>>>
>>> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Darren
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
>>> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
>>> To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
>>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>>
>>> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few 
>>> points.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not 
>>> kind enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list 
>>> before in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful 
>>> for newcomers.  But I am very happy to be a member and will gladly 
>>> learn/join whatever format is chosen. So many people helped me get 
>>> to where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I 
>>> feel obligated to do the same for other newcomers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Re

Re: Politics-RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Lubomir Smrcok]

Thanks for adding just this comment ! While reading it I have realized 
that the group is mostly populated by people who have either never 
experienced open censoring of their communication (OK, some big brothering 
is everywhere) or have already forgotten those times (Eastern Europe).
Your opinion must be taken into account very seriously when thinking of 
face-booking of this group.

Best,
Lubo


On Fri, 12 Jun 2015, chenhh wrote:


Hello!
After finishing so many excellent discussion, I think a trivial appeared  
but serious indeed problem is omitted. That is politics. In fact, Facebook, 
Youtube,and even Google load or cover many contents forbidden  by some 
countries, so the goverments stop  their people to visit the whole sites though 
they also know there are still many useful things on them, but they can't  
support the selection of the so called good things for their people . Of 
course, the managers of the above sites also reject to filter the contens 
forbidden  by the country law.

So I think at least the maillist is better now but not Facebook or other so called 
"free"states, unless you want to set up a site only for USA,UK and some other 
countries. well, if so, I think it is Rietveld group of the WEST, but not Rietveld group 
of the WORLD, :))

Dr.Haohong Chen

Shanghai Institute of Ceramics

CAS

P.R.China



=== 2015-06-11 19:29:00 ===


Well,
Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different
ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie
while typing.
Lubo


On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:



Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.



Jim





James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334



From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
Of Darren Broom
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally
only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the
two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.

For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.

Best regards,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
points.



I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough
to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :)
To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am
very happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is
chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering
my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other
newcomers.



I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think
that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish
to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats
are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow
for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time
passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work
or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if
not frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive.



I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to
move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
consideration?





From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of
Daxu Liu 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



Dear prof. Suescun,

I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an
enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!

Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some
basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them.
However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe
study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the
Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to
some people for help because I can not solve some problems even after I
searched the answers in Google or other search engines. I am very
appreciated for those people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H.,
and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and ot

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Lubomir Smrcok]

elfie!

'''''''++'+
#+
##++##
++#+#+
#+
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##+#+###+#
##+###+#++
##+#++++#+
###+###+#+
#+'+'+
++++#+#+'+'+++
+++'###+#+##+#+++'
+++'+##+#+++#+##+++''++#++
+++'+++'##++++###+
+++'++#####@@###++#@@@#+#+
+++'+#####
+++'+###+#@##@@@+@###@###+
+++'##+++###@#+##@@@+#
+++'+++@###+#++##@@@#+'''+'++#@@@##+++
+++'++@@#+;;'+@#+##+++
+++'+#@#+##+#+';;'##@##+++
+++'+###'++#+#'';'##@+#+++
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+++'''''''''''''''''''''@'':;:,,,::'+@@@#+'''''''''''''
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+++'''''''''''''''''''+#+'';::::::,,:::;;;'+##@#''''''''''''''
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''';'''''''''''''''''++@'+'';;+++##++;;:###++##++''+''''''''''
''';''''''''''''''''''+#+'+'+';:::''''+++'''+;;+@@'#++###+'+''''''''''
''';'''''''''''''''''''++++'''@@#@''++#+';;'+##@+#+'''''''''''
''';'''''''''''''''''';'+'#;#@+##++,,+;'+#'##+@+++';;++''++'''''''''''
''';'''''''''''''''''''''+#'+;#++'''+'':,:';'''+''+++;'@@#;'''''''''''
''';''''''''''''''''''#+'+;;''''''';:::+;;''''';;+::;;;++;;;@#+''''''''''''
''';''''''''''''''';'#+';';;''';;';::::;:::;;''::':+@;''''''''
''';''''''''''''''#+';';;';;;;:;;;'':;;:#''''''
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''';''''''''';;:::';:;::,:;;:,,::;;;'''#'''
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Politics-RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[chenhh]

Hello!
 After finishing so many excellent discussion, I think a trivial appeared  
but serious indeed problem is omitted. That is politics. In fact, Facebook, 
Youtube,and even Google load or cover many contents forbidden  by some 
countries, so the goverments stop  their people to visit the whole sites though 
they also know there are still many useful things on them, but they can't  
support the selection of the so called good things for their people . Of 
course, the managers of the above sites also reject to filter the contens 
forbidden  by the country law.

 So I think at least the maillist is better now but not Facebook or other 
so called "free"states, unless you want to set up a site only for USA,UK and 
some other countries. well, if so, I think it is Rietveld group of the WEST, 
but not Rietveld group of the WORLD, :))

Dr.Haohong Chen

Shanghai Institute of Ceramics

CAS

P.R.China



=== 2015-06-11 19:29:00 您在来信中写道：===

>Well,
>Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different
>ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie
>while typing.
>Lubo
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:
>
>>
>> Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> James P. Cline
>> Materials Measurement Science Division
>> National Institute of Standards and Technology
>> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
>> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
>> jcl...@nist.gov
>> (301) 975 5793
>> FAX (301) 975 5334
>>
>>
>>
>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
>> Of Darren Broom
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
>> To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally
>> only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the
>> two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.
>>
>> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Darren
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
>> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
>> To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
>> points.
>>
>>
>>
>> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough
>> to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :)
>> To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am
>> very happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is
>> chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering
>> my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other
>> newcomers.
>>
>>
>>
>> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think
>> that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish
>> to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats
>> are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow
>> for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time
>> passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work
>> or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if
>> not frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to
>> move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
>> consideration?
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of
>> Daxu Liu 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
>> To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear prof. Suescun,
>>
>> I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an
>> enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
>>
>> Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some
>> basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them.
>> However, someone has no choice to ask someone for 

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Matthew Rowles]

!

'''''''++'
+#+##+
+##++#
+#
+#
+###+#
+##+#+###+#+++
+##+###+#+
+##+#++++#
+###+###+#
+#+'+'
+++++#+#+'+'++
'###+#+##+#+++'+++
'+##+#+++#+##+++''++#+
'+++'##++++###
'++#####@@###++#@@@#+#
'+#####+++
'+###+#@##@@@+@###@###++++
'##+++###@#+##@@@+#+++
'+++@###+#++##@@@#+'''+'++#@@@##++
'++@@#+;;'+@#+##++
'+#@#+##+#+';;'##@##++
'+###'++#+#'';'##@+#++
'@@#'++#';;##+##++
'+'+'''+'@@@###@###+++#+;;;#@''+'+'+++
'+'''''''@@@###'+##''''+'++
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'++'''+''''''''''''''##@@#@##+:::;:++#@#@#'''''''+'+++
'+++'''''''''''''''''#@@##'++###;::'+##@@###@#'''''''''''+
'''''''''''''''''''''#@###'''+##;;;''+#@@@##@#'''''''''''+
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:;,.;'''''''''''+';:;'''..,:;;
:;:::,.,;''

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Leopoldo Suescun]

As of wasting time, I have more than one colleague that think replying to
people I don´t personally know on the Rietveld List or Research Gate is a
waste of time... I do know, first hand (current postdoc), that many
colleagues have been encouraged to continue on the topic by such answers,
as well as I was encouraged to learn more by Rietvelders that replied to my
questions a decade ago...

So it´s a matter of perception what you consider is a waste time, and I
disagree it´s a waste to do in Facebook and not in the list. Indeed it´s
difficult to support that the lack of archiving is the main point against
Facebook, because most of the people need help in such specific issues that
even an achive can be useless.

Besides, I insist that the public of one and another forums barely overlaps
and it will, for sure, bring more people to the Rietveld_List in the end.

Talking about Wiki, there is a Wikipedia Page for Rietveld Refinement (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rietveld_refinement) with only three
references, one to the original Hugo Rietveld's paper, another one to the
history of the method (very nice pictures in it) and the last reference is
to the MAUD program... so even Open resources can be a great place for
Advertisement!!!

Having said that, I´m wasting my time, I gotta go back to work,
Best!
Leo

2015-06-11 19:29 GMT+02:00 Lubomir Smrcok :

> Well,
> Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different
> ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie
> while typing.
> Lubo
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:
>
>
>> Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> James P. Cline
>> Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of Standards
>> and Technology
>> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
>> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
>> jcl...@nist.gov
>> (301) 975 5793
>> FAX (301) 975 5334
>>
>>
>>
>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Darren Broom
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
>> To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally
>> only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the
>> two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.
>>
>> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Darren
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
>> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
>> To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
>> points.
>>
>>
>> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind
>> enough
>> to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life
>> :)
>> To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am
>> very happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is
>> chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly
>> answering
>> my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other
>> newcomers.
>>
>>
>> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think
>> that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish
>> to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats
>> are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not
>> allow
>> for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time
>> passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at
>> work
>> or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden
>> if
>> not frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive.
>>
>>
>> I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to
>> move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
>> consideration?
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of
>> Daxu Liu 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
>> To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Lubomir Smrcok]

But not through Rietved_l as Allan has forbidden attachments :-)
lubo


On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:


I'll send you a copy of the selfie...


James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division  
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523    USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

-Original Message-
From: Lubomir Smrcok [mailto:uachs...@savba.sk]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:30 PM
To: Cline, James Dr.
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Well,
Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different ways 
:-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie while 
typing.
Lubo


On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:



Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.



Jim





James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of Standards
and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334



From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On
Behalf Of Darren Broom
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I
generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to
avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.

For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.

Best regards,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
points.



I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind
enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before
in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful for
newcomers.  But I am very happy to be a member and will gladly
learn/join whatever format is chosen. So many people helped me get to
where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I feel
obligated to do the same for other newcomers.



I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I
think that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach
if we wish to seek out new members, but I don't think social media
formats are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example,
would not allow for easy archiving of replies and they would easily
become buried as time passed. Another problem with social media is
that for those who are at work or school, being seen on facebook or
other social media may be forbidden if not frowned upon, even if they were 
being honestly productive.



I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish
to move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
consideration?


__
__


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf
of Daxu Liu 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



Dear prof. Suescun,

I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be
an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!

Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and
some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of 
them.
However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she
maybe study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was
crazy on the Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I
had to write to some people for help because I can not solve some
problems even after I searched the answers in Google or other search
engines. I am very appreciated for those people who helped me like you
and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable 
and kind people.

I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the
web and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it,
which are colsely related to my research areas.

In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will
be possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his
or her some basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ).

Best regards, Daxu




__
__


From: Leopoldo Suescun 
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists
that

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Cline, James Dr.]

I'll send you a copy of the selfie...


James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division  
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523    USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

-Original Message-
From: Lubomir Smrcok [mailto:uachs...@savba.sk] 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:30 PM
To: Cline, James Dr.
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Well,
Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different ways 
:-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie while 
typing.
Lubo


On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:

> 
> Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
>
> 
> 
> Jim
>
> 
>
> 
> 
> James P. Cline
> Materials Measurement Science Division National Institute of Standards 
> and Technology
> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
> jcl...@nist.gov
> (301) 975 5793
> FAX (301) 975 5334
>
> 
> 
> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On 
> Behalf Of Darren Broom
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
> To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> 
> 
> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I 
> generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to 
> avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.
> 
> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Darren
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
> To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
> 
> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few 
> points.
>
> 
> 
> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind 
> enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before 
> in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful for 
> newcomers.  But I am very happy to be a member and will gladly 
> learn/join whatever format is chosen. So many people helped me get to 
> where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I feel 
> obligated to do the same for other newcomers.
>
> 
> 
> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I 
> think that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach 
> if we wish to seek out new members, but I don't think social media 
> formats are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, 
> would not allow for easy archiving of replies and they would easily 
> become buried as time passed. Another problem with social media is 
> that for those who are at work or school, being seen on facebook or 
> other social media may be forbidden if not frowned upon, even if they were 
> being honestly productive.
>
> 
> 
> I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish 
> to move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for 
> consideration?
> 
> 
> __________
> __
> 
> 
> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf 
> of Daxu Liu 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
> To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> 
> 
> Dear prof. Suescun,
> 
> I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be 
> an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
> 
> Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and 
> some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of 
> them.
> However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she 
> maybe study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was 
> crazy on the Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I 
> had to write to some people for help because I can not solve some 
> problems even after I searched the answers in Google or other search 
> engines. I am very appreciated for those people who helped me like you 
> and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable 
> and kind people.
> 
> I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the 
> web and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, 
> which are colsely related to my research areas.
> 
> In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will 
> be possible to encourag

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Lubomir Smrcok]

Well,
Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different 
ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie 
while typing.

Lubo


On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:



Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.



Jim





James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division 
National Institute of Standards and Technology

100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334



From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
Of Darren Broom
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally
only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the
two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.

For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.

Best regards,

Darren

-Original Message-
From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
points. 




I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough
to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :)
To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am
very happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is
chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering
my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other
newcomers. 




I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think
that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish
to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats
are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow
for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time
passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work
or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if
not frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive. 




I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to
move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
consideration?





From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of
Daxu Liu 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



Dear prof. Suescun,

I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an
enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!

Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some
basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them.
However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe
study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the
Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to
some people for help because I can not solve some problems even after I
searched the answers in Google or other search engines. I am very
appreciated for those people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H.,
and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable and kind people.

I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the web
and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, which are
colsely related to my research areas.

In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will be
possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his or her
some basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ).

Best regards, Daxu







From: Leopoldo Suescun 
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook



Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that
are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for
assistance in facebook. 


One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at
minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and
rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students whose knowledge
was evidently far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful
refinement, or question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for
a very young and untrained student to join our list and ask very basic
questions.

I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never come to
us on a firs

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Cline, James Dr.]

Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.

Jim


James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
jcl...@nist.gov<mailto:jcl...@nist.gov>
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Darren Broom
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally only 
use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the two. I'm 
sure I'm not alone in doing this.

For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.

Best regards,

Darren
-Original Message-
From: 
lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu<mailto:lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu>
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few points.



I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough to 
point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :) To 
that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am very 
happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is chosen. So 
many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering my basic 
questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other newcomers.



I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think that 
social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish to seek 
out new members, but I don't think social media formats are friendly to 
discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow for easy archiving 
of replies and they would easily become buried as time passed. Another problem 
with social media is that for those who are at work or school, being seen on 
facebook or other social media may be forbidden if not frowned upon, even if 
they were being honestly productive.



I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to move 
at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for consideration?


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> 
mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr>> on behalf of Daxu 
Liu mailto:daxu...@yahoo.com>>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear prof. Suescun,
I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an 
enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some 
basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them. 
However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe 
study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the 
Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to some 
people for help because I can not solve some problems even after I searched the 
answers in Google or other search engines. I am very appreciated for those 
people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. 
Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable and kind people.
I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the web and 
reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, which are colsely 
related to my research areas.
In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will be 
possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his or her some 
basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ).
Best regards, Daxu


From: Leopoldo Suescun mailto:leopo...@fq.edu.uy>>
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>" 
mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that are 
rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for assistance in 
facebook.
One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at 
minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and 
rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students whose knowledge was 
evidently far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful refinement, or 
question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for a very young and 
untrained student to join our list and ask very basic questions.
I think the facebook page will reach to other

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Darren Broom]

On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.Best regards,Darren-Original Message-From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.eduSent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +To: rietveld_l@ill.frSubject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few points. 



I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :) To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am very happy to be a member and
 will gladly learn/join whatever format is chosen. So
 many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other newcomers. 



I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format,
 for example, would not allow for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if not
 frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive. 



I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for consideration?



From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of Daxu Liu 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
 



Dear prof. Suescun,
I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them. However,
 someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to some people for help because I can not solve
 some problems even after I searched the answers in Google or other search engines. I am very appreciated for those people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable and kind people.
I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the web and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, which are colsely related
 to my research areas.
In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will be possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his or her some basic questions
 (maybe stupied questions,:) ).
Best regards, Daxu





From: Leopoldo Suescun 
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" 

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook




Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for assistance in facebook. 
One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and rivalries. We have even read some
 rude replies to students whose knowledge was evidently far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful refinement, or question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for a very young and untrained student to join our list and ask very basic
 questions.
I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never come to us on a first basis and probably shouldn´t, but that will eventually be ready for the list after some time.
One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social media channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more
 "younger" and not quite colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of careers, teaching programs, events, job advertising, and even knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may be of help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in
 particular and knowledge in general is like denying reality.
I´m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude of the companies that manage these social networks is favorable for spreading science or not (probably not), but it may be
 a good idea that we use the networks to allow younger colleagues becoming crystallographers to learn the science from sc

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Young, Lindsay Kay]

As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few points.


I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough to 
point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :) To 
that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers.  But I am very 
happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is chosen. So 
many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering my basic 
questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other newcomers.


I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think that 
social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish to seek 
out new members, but I don't think social media formats are friendly to 
discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow for easy archiving 
of replies and they would easily become buried as time passed. Another problem 
with social media is that for those who are at work or school, being seen on 
facebook or other social media may be forbidden if not frowned upon, even if 
they were being honestly productive.


I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to move 
at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for consideration?


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of Daxu 
Liu 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear prof. Suescun,
I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an 
enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some 
basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them. 
However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe 
study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the 
Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to some 
people for help because I can not solve some problems even after I searched the 
answers in Google or other search engines. I am very appreciated for those 
people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. 
Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable and kind people.
I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the web and 
reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, which are colsely 
related to my research areas.
In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will be 
possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his or her some 
basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ).
Best regards, Daxu


From: Leopoldo Suescun 
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that are 
rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for assistance in 
facebook.
One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at 
minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and 
rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students whose knowledge was 
evidently far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful refinement, or 
question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for a very young and 
untrained student to join our list and ask very basic questions.
I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never come to us 
on a first basis and probably shouldn´t, but that will eventually be ready for 
the list after some time.
One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social media 
channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see below) are on 
Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" and not quite colleagues 
are using them too, for dissemination of careers, teaching programs, events, 
job advertising, and even knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, 
Research Gate, etc. may be of help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in 
particular and knowledge in general is like denying reality.
I´m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude of the 
companies that manage these social networks is favorable for spreading science 
or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea that we use the networks to 
allow younger colleagues becoming crystallographers to learn the science from 
scientists and eventually lead them to the Rietveld List when they have enough 
knowledge to ask meaningful questions.
Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated in 
discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by all 
possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards modern (not 
necessarily better, I agree) tools

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Daxu Liu]

Dear prof. Suescun,I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. 
You do be an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!Yes, many 
beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some basic steps 
on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them. However, 
someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe study 
oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the Rietveld 
method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to some people for 
help because I can not solve some problems even after I searched the answers in 
Google or other search engines. I am very appreciated for those people who 
helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and 
other respectable and kind people.I have studied the Rietveld method for eight 
years myself through the web and reading some books, and I have published few 
papers on it, which are colsely related to my research areas.In a word, I feel, 
if you know about it and have spare time, it will be possible to encourage and 
help someone greatly when you answer his or her some basic questions (maybe 
stupied questions,:) ).Best regards, Daxu
  From: Leopoldo Suescun 
 To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr"  
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
 Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
   
Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that are 
rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for assistance in 
facebook. One of such students will find our discussions impossible to 
understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old 
discussions and rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students 
whose knowledge was evidently far below the minimum required to perform a 
meaningful refinement, or question to the list. So maybe it would not be 
advisable for a very young and untrained student to join our list and ask very 
basic questions.I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will 
never come to us on a first basis and probably shouldn´t, but that will 
eventually be ready for the list after some time.One point in favor of the 
facebook discussion group or other social media channels is that all of our 
Universities and Institutes(*see below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and 
more and more "younger" and not quite colleagues are using them too, for 
dissemination of careers, teaching programs, events, job advertising, and even 
knowledge, so denying that Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may be of 
help to disseminate the Rietveld Method in particular and knowledge in general 
is like denying reality.I´m not going to judge if the for-profit, business 
oriented attitude of the companies that manage these social networks is 
favorable for spreading science or not (probably not), but it may be a good 
idea that we use the networks to allow younger colleagues becoming 
crystallographers to learn the science from scientists and eventually lead them 
to the Rietveld List when they have enough knowledge to ask meaningful 
questions. Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated 
in discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by all 
possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards modern (not 
necessarily better, I agree) tools.As much as I have replied to crystallography 
questions in this list and Research Gate I´ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter 
or whatever other forum I´m at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper 
understanding to walk the way by themselves reading books, papers and why not 
the Rietveld Mailing Archive, and eventually seeking support from well trained 
scientists in the Rietveld List. And I foresee many links in Facebook to the 
rietveld_list_archives for everyone to use this accumulated knowledge, while 
Mark Zuckerberg tries to sell them X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or 
X-plane tickets or whatever the automatic software that drops advertisement in 
our screen understands of what we talk about...With best regards,Leo* List of 
important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 minute 
search:https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846298?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/usnistgov?fref=tsneed more?
2015-06-10 16:29 GMT-03:00 AICr2014 :

Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that are 
rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for assistance in 
facebook. One of such students will find our discussions impossible to 
understand at minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, 

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Leopoldo Suescun]

s to allow younger colleagues becoming crystallographers to learn
> the science from scientists and eventually lead them to the Rietveld List
> when they have enough knowledge to ask meaningful questions.
>
> Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated in
> discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by all
> possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards modern
> (not necessarily better, I agree) tools.
>
> As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list and
> Research Gate I´ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever other forum
> I´m at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper understanding to walk
> the way by themselves reading books, papers and why not the Rietveld
> Mailing Archive, and eventually seeking support from well trained
> scientists in the Rietveld List. And I foresee many links in Facebook to
> the rietveld_list_archives for everyone to use this accumulated knowledge,
> while Mark Zuckerberg tries to sell them X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs
> or X-plane tickets or whatever the automatic software that drops
> advertisement in our screen understands of what we talk about...
>
> With best regards,
>
> Leo
>
> * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 minute
> search:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts
>
> https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846298?fref=ts
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts
>
> https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts
>
> https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts
>
> need more?
>
>  --
>
> Enviado desde mi móvil.
> Prof. Dr. Leopoldo Suescun
> Cryssmat-Lab/DETEMA,  Facultad de Química,  Universidad de la República,
> Montevideo,  Uruguay.
> El jun 9, 2015 4:15 AM, "Radovan Cerny"  escribió:
>
> Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from an
> old proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death).
>
> Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where to
> look for an info, you spend too much time before you find it.
> Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and more
> up-to-date researcher use the email?
>
>
> Radovan Cerny
> Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
> Université de Genève
> 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
> CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
> Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
> mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
> URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
>
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la
> part de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO
> Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 08:15
> À : rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the
> problem is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
> still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and
> as someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.
>
>
> Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :
>
> > Dear Luis,
> >
> > I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that
> > some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are
> > not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and
> > progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's
> > comment.
> >
> > Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a
> > second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific
> > information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way
> > of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly
> > resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though
> > published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
> >
> > A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check
> > the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered
> > also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece
> > of paper.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lubo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early
> >> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
> >> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the R

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Cline, James Dr.]

This is the first pro-Facebook post that has resonated with me to any extent.

However, with all the discussion of government surveillance: If my wife sends 
me an email to the effect that my son has exhausted his supply of clean 
underwear and would I please do a laundry, no government entity could care less 
about it.  Google/Facebook/Yahoo, etc however would regard this email as a 
veritable gold mine from which to profit via targeted advertising and would 
store this information for eternity.  Such institutions are not the places for 
scientific discussion.  I won't touch it.

Jim


James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division  
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523    USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Alan Coelho
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 6:04 AM
To: 'Radovan Cerny'; 'Jonathan WRIGHT'; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Radovan 

Interesting discussion, html may allow graphics but doesn't still mean 
e-mailing large files to everyone.

Jon: the IUCR also has a facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org

Not recognizing the pull/power of facebook, twitter, Instagram etc… is akin to 
IBM not recognizing the power of personal computers, or like thinking that 3D 
printing is a fad or that drones is a toy or that the newspaper are here 
forever.  

It’s easy to agree with the thought that a small community like ours should not 
have many channels but not having pictures/graphics seems archaic. A 12 year 
old I know used a phone to take a 100Mbyte video and posted it on youtube; 
these are the file sizes being thrown about by kids. 

So great to have a mailing list, thanks Alan, but personally I would love to 
see a medium (I dot care what it is) that allows graphics. 

Cheers
Alan


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 6:36 PM
To: Jonathan WRIGHT; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Jon,

There is no problem to have pictures in the email. Just need to use HTML format 
for your email.

But you have raised an important question: "public perceptions". Uni Geneva has 
already everythink: 
http://www.unige.ch/communication/diffuser/mediassociaux.html

I hope we will not start to discuss this question now.

Jan Rohlicek proposes to link email with (a)social networks. Simple (?) and 
constructive idea.


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Jonathan WRIGHT Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 10:16 À : rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : 
Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt the 
value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful. 

It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to "public 
perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay attention to things 
like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign recently with #RestartLHC and 
#13TeV. If you want to, you can read tweets about powder diffraction already:

 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when following 
people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want to read those 
things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes into your inbox.

Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )
On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:
Good Morning
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide 


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Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Roberto R. de Avillez]

Indeed I find the list one of my best resources and when I have some 
doubt on a subject, I search the old posts.


Kind regards,
Roberto

Roberto Ribeiro de Avillez
Professor Associado
Dept de Engenharia Química e de Materiais
Pontifícia Universidade Católica do Rio de Janeiro
tel. +55 21 3527 1233

On 06/09/2015 12:34 PM, Alan Hewat wrote:


the Rietveld mailing list is still where the best knowledgeable is


That's encouraging Alan. Thanks. Concerning the number of posts you 
are right - there are fewer now. I would like to think it's because we 
have an archive now, and people profit from past answers rather than 
asking the same questions over again, which used to be common. Or 
perhaps its because there are now more channels of information.


While the number of posts has diminished, the number of members has 
grown continually. There are now more than 1500, but some well known 
names only post when they see a particularly interesting question. 
Whenever there is a good question, we receive good answers.


As for insults, I thought Radovan's "cleavage between Troglodytes and 
Tweeters" was quite amusing. And every time we have a little 
controversy, we get new members.


One shouldn't assume that because fewer people post, there are fewer 
people interested. But certainly prepare a graph if you wish. Just 
don't post it to all 1500+ members :-)


Kind regards, Alan.
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__


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RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Radovan Cerny]

Oh, I didn't realize that my comment was understood by Alan C. as an insult. It 
was definitely not thought as that. My excuses. Thank you, Alan H., for 
commenting on that. I must admit that English is definitively not my mother 
tongue.

I summarize, at least for me, that the best way how to continue the "tweet" on 
powder diffraction is to let evolve Rietveld mailing list to something more 
attractive and powerful (wiki? Wordpress?) but not towards (a)social networks.

Have a nice evening (in Europe and Africa), morning (in Australia and Asia) and 
day (in Amerika)

Radovan

Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : alan.he...@gmail.com [mailto:alan.he...@gmail.com] De la part de Alan Hewat
Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 17:35
À : Alan Coelho
Cc : Othman Al Bahri; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

the Rietveld mailing list is still where the best knowledgeable is

That's encouraging Alan. Thanks. Concerning the number of posts you are right - 
there are fewer now. I would like to think it's because we have an archive now, 
and people profit from past answers rather than asking the same questions over 
again, which used to be common. Or perhaps its because there are now more 
channels of information.

While the number of posts has diminished, the number of members has grown 
continually. There are now more than 1500, but some well known names only post 
when they see a particularly interesting question. Whenever there is a good 
question, we receive good answers.

As for insults, I thought Radovan's "cleavage between Troglodytes and Tweeters" 
was quite amusing. And every time we have a little controversy, we get new 
members.

One shouldn't assume that because fewer people post, there are fewer people 
interested. But certainly prepare a graph if you wish. Just don't post it to 
all 1500+ members :-)

Kind regards, Alan.
__
   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> 
+33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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++

bookmarks: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Jonathan WRIGHT]

> >  Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on facebook
> >  http://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/


 So from what I gather we have:

http://www.xrayforum.co.uk
http://www.reddit.com/r/crystallography
http://www.researchgate.net/topic/x-ray_diffraction


There are many other places where crystallographers can gather:

Various LinkedIn groups:
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=6966339
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=3614857
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=927967
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=2683600
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=4210959
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=4324676
http://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=4599287

usenet sci.techniques.xtallography (mostly abandoned)
http://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sci.techniques.xtallography

ccp4 list (high traffic, mostly protein crystallography):
http://www.ccp4.ac.uk/ccp4bb.php

(private) Rigaku Oxford Diffraction Forum, good for small molecule 
single crystal stuff:

http://www.rigakuxrayforum.com/index.php

(login needed) Topas Forum:
http://topas.dur.ac.uk/topaswiki/doku.php

GSAS-II list:
http://mailman.aps.anl.gov/mailman/listinfo/GSAS-II

Did the sdpd list die off from yahoo groups or did I unsubscribe? It 
seems to have evaporated. Anyway, the 140 character limit from twitter 
might not be a bad thing.


Jon

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Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Hewat]

>
> the Rietveld mailing list is still where the best knowledgeable is
>

That's encouraging Alan. Thanks. Concerning the number of posts you are
right - there are fewer now. I would like to think it's because we have an
archive now, and people profit from past answers rather than asking the
same questions over again, which used to be common. Or perhaps its because
there are now more channels of information.

While the number of posts has diminished, the number of members has grown
continually. There are now more than 1500, but some well known names only
post when they see a particularly interesting question. Whenever there is a
good question, we receive good answers.

As for insults, I thought Radovan's "cleavage between Troglodytes and
Tweeters" was quite amusing. And every time we have a little controversy,
we get new members.

One shouldn't assume that because fewer people post, there are fewer people
interested. But certainly prepare a graph if you wish. Just don't post it
to all 1500+ members :-)

Kind regards, Alan.
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Coelho]

Radovan wrote:
>Looks like cleavage between troglodyts and tweeters. This of course should
be avoided. 
>How many general scientific questions do you receive, Alan? I remember to
see ~ 1-2 /week on mailing list.

Not called for; people don’t like being called names, no wonder the Rietveld
mailing list is not being used like it once were. They also don’t like the
mediums they use such as twitter being rubbished.

Thanks for the information Othman. So from what I gather we have:

http://www.xrayforum.co.uk 
http://www.reddit.com/r/crystallography  
http://www.researchgate.net/topic/x-ray_diffraction

I like the look of xrayforum.co.uk.

I remember a while back many questions on the mailing list; if there’s 1-2 a
week now then something is not working. 

Let's have a closer look at the archives at
https://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/mail8.html

In 2014 there were 221 messages

In 2007 there were 593 messages.

In the last 4 months of 2006 there were 211 messages; extrapolating gives
633 messages.

A plot of these numbers and dates would be nice.

Anyway, the Rietveld mailing list is still where the best knowledgeable is
in my opinion; I just wish some members weren’t so grumpy.

Cheers
Alan


-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
Of Othman Al Bahri
Sent: Wednesday, 10 June 2015 12:26 AM
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

This is my fifth month in the field of applied crystallography and as an
undergraduate who is still learning how to learn. I sometimes wish things
were a little more organised. Finding out about this mailing list (by a
totally random lunch-time conversation during an NMR conference) was a
godsend.

Back to the discussion ... http://www.xrayforum.co.uk is a forum to consider
instead of starting something from scratch. Too many options paralyse the
individual, but here's another option
http://www.reddit.com/r/crystallography .
Cheers,
Othman

From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of
Radovan Cerny 
Sent: Wednesday, 10 June 2015 12:03 AM
To: Alan Coelho; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

BTW: I will declare my vested interest in this discussion: I would love for
users of programs like GSAS/Fox/TOPAS/Full-prof etc... to ask scientific
questions in scientific forums rather each program having its own web page
trying to hold back the tide. There are so many young scientists asking
questions. No doubt a web page for program specific question is useful but
we are talking general scientific questions. Do I think the Rietveld list
fills the void ? No.

Cheers
Alan

Looks like cleavage between troglodyts and tweeters. This of course should
be avoided.
How many general scientific questions do you receive, Alan? I remember to
see ~ 1-2 /week on mailing list.

Imagine the discussion which has just happened on mailing list to happen on
Facebook or Tweeter. Would be much better with images and even videos of
discussing people. And few seconds of publicity after each tweet ...



Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto :
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

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++

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Othman Al Bahri]

This is my fifth month in the field of applied crystallography and as an 
undergraduate who is still learning how to learn. I sometimes wish things were 
a little more organised. Finding out about this mailing list (by a totally 
random lunch-time conversation during an NMR conference) was a godsend.

Back to the discussion ... http://www.xrayforum.co.uk is a forum to consider 
instead of starting something from scratch. Too many options paralyse the 
individual, but here's another option http://www.reddit.com/r/crystallography .
Cheers,
Othman

From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  on behalf of 
Radovan Cerny 
Sent: Wednesday, 10 June 2015 12:03 AM
To: Alan Coelho; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

BTW: I will declare my vested interest in this discussion: I would love for 
users of programs like GSAS/Fox/TOPAS/Full-prof etc... to ask scientific 
questions in scientific forums rather each program having its own web page 
trying to hold back the tide. There are so many young scientists asking 
questions. No doubt a web page for program specific question is useful but we 
are talking general scientific questions. Do I think the Rietveld list fills 
the void ? No.

Cheers
Alan

Looks like cleavage between troglodyts and tweeters. This of course should be 
avoided.
How many general scientific questions do you receive, Alan? I remember to see ~ 
1-2 /week on mailing list.

Imagine the discussion which has just happened on mailing list to happen on 
Facebook or Tweeter. Would be much better with images and even videos of 
discussing people. And few seconds of publicity after each tweet ...



Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
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++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Radovan Cerny]

BTW: I will declare my vested interest in this discussion: I would love for 
users of programs like GSAS/Fox/TOPAS/Full-prof etc... to ask scientific 
questions in scientific forums rather each program having its own web page 
trying to hold back the tide. There are so many young scientists asking 
questions. No doubt a web page for program specific question is useful but we 
are talking general scientific questions. Do I think the Rietveld list fills 
the void ? No.

Cheers
Alan

Looks like cleavage between troglodyts and tweeters. This of course should be 
avoided. 
How many general scientific questions do you receive, Alan? I remember to see ~ 
1-2 /week on mailing list. 

Imagine the discussion which has just happened on mailing list to happen on 
Facebook or Tweeter. Would be much better with images and even videos of 
discussing people. And few seconds of publicity after each tweet ...



Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

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++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Coelho]

I can never write something and have it interpreted the way I want it to be. 
The written word is so hopeless – in my hands that is.

Alan Hewat wrote:
>Hmm ? Are file servers still OK ? Like the Rietveld archive, where people can 
>already include links to pictures

I'm afraid respectfully that links to picture won't do. People want WYSIWYG  
(You have a twitter account! -  I have never even owned a mobile phone).


Lubomir Smrcok wrote:
>If you argue that 12 yrs old kids can move files between two computers I can 
>only ask..

The point was: how is it a 12 year old can move 100 Mbytes with ease and in a 
manner that didn’t costs a thing (the 3 seconds adverts can be bothersome 
though). Whilst back on the mailing list we are talking bytes rather than 
Mbytes.


Radovan Cerny wrote:
>But I think that the (a)social networks are not a good choice. ...

Agree, that’s why I mentioned wordpress and docuwiki


Radovan Cerny wrote:
>Imagine that I will post one day a short twit (or how you call it?) what is 
>the best way to describe
>a BH4 group in Topas. And Alan has a full right to use it in his publicity 
>campaign 
>saying that even Radovan is now using exclusively Topas and has abandoned 
>Fox (there will be a new version soon thanks to Vincent).

Being so close to Fox you should then know the very many questions,  and indeed 
scientific ones, asked by users. To answer these questions efficiently requires 
attachments and graphics; I can’t imagine answering the 100s of questions I get 
without it. And congratulation to Vincent for the new Fox; can’t wait to have a 
look :).

BTW: I will declare my vested interest in this discussion: I would love for 
users of programs like GSAS/Fox/TOPAS/Full-prof etc... to ask scientific 
questions in scientific forums rather each program having its own web page 
trying to hold back the tide. There are so many young scientists asking 
questions. No doubt a web page for program specific question is useful but we 
are talking general scientific questions. Do I think the Rietveld list fills 
the void ? No.

Cheers
Alan

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Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Hewat]

>
> I don't doubt the value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful.
> ...at least none of it comes into your inbox.
>

... so you want to be able to post pictures...
... but you prefer they don't come into your own mailbox ?

Hmm ? Are file servers still OK ? Like the Rietveld archive, where people
can already include links to pictures. (Indeed, if you don't like email,
just read the archive and discard all emails - except your own of course).

You must still remember to read the archive, while emails do get attention.
But you could also do that with Twitter - eg "check out my new article
about ... complete with pictures". Some people might even read your article
and not just your Tweet. I'm not sure what Facebook can contribute there,
but an HTML archive complete with pictures, or a Rietveld Wiki, would be
good. That would actually involve some work. Davide ?

On the (unrelated) point, is the Rietveld list really about publicity ?
Certainly, attracting public funding for Science is important, but on the
Rietveld list ?

And yes, Bill Gates and IBM were wrong about computers. Troglodytes too I
suppose - laughing all the way to the bank.

Alan
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Eduard E. Levin]

Davide,

I apologize for not being precise. I meant ‘no relevant search mechanism’. Of 
course there is some search engine, but it suffers the same illnesses: 
‘infinite scrolling’ instead of complete list, no complex filtering.

Eduard.

From: Davide Levy 
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 2:59 PM
To: 'Eduard E. Levin' ; rietveld_l@ill.fr 
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

In the right side under the picture, there is search in this group function

 



--
Eduard Levin
Department of Electrochemistry
Chemical Faculty
Moscow State University
Leninskie Gory 1.-Str.3
119991 Moscow
Russia
E-mail: le...@elch.chem.msu.ru
Tel +7 (495) 939-1321
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RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Davide Levy]

In the right side under the picture, there is search in this group function

 

 

From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Eduard E. Levin
Sent: 09 June, 2015 2:55 PM
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

 

Dear all,

 

my five cents to this discussion, if I may add.

The problem of facebook for me is that there is no search mechanism. As a 
consequence, questions one and the same will appear again and again as we saw 
here and how it is on ResearchGate now. Add content built-in filtering on top 
of that, what you see is a bit random, except highly active topics, and some 
important things will simply drown, thanks also to ‘infinite’ scrolling. I see 
the same now in our local perfumers group. Its owner has to write and update 
important posts lists, and to make sure index post won’t drown too.

Thing is, who knows if the facebook group survive or not.

I personally prefer emails as I can always check archives. To link the group to 
mailing list is a great idea.

 

Eduard

--
Eduard Levin
Department of Electrochemistry
Chemical Faculty
Moscow State University
Leninskie Gory 1.-Str.3
119991 Moscow
Russia
E-mail: le...@elch.chem.msu.ru <mailto:le...@elch.chem.msu.ru> 
Tel +7 (495) 939-1321

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Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Eduard E. Levin]

Dear all,

my five cents to this discussion, if I may add.
The problem of facebook for me is that there is no search mechanism. As a 
consequence, questions one and the same will appear again and again as we saw 
here and how it is on ResearchGate now. Add content built-in filtering on top 
of that, what you see is a bit random, except highly active topics, and some 
important things will simply drown, thanks also to ‘infinite’ scrolling. I see 
the same now in our local perfumers group. Its owner has to write and update 
important posts lists, and to make sure index post won’t drown too.
Thing is, who knows if the facebook group survive or not.
I personally prefer emails as I can always check archives. To link the group to 
mailing list is a great idea.

Eduard

--
Eduard Levin
Department of Electrochemistry
Chemical Faculty
Moscow State University
Leninskie Gory 1.-Str.3
119991 Moscow
Russia
E-mail: le...@elch.chem.msu.ru
Tel +7 (495) 939-1321
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RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Davide Levy]

the Idea of Radovan to link the archive is very good and I will do it 


-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: 09 June, 2015 2:23 PM
To: Alan Coelho; 'Jonathan WRIGHT'; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Hi Alan,

I have nothing against the evolution of communication tools, protocols etc. 
Yes, why not to evolve Rietveld mailing list to Rietveld_wiki? Maybe good time 
to change also the name. 

But I think that the (a)social networks are not a good choice. Already because 
all what you post on Facebook may be used by anybody else for example for a 
publicity. 

Imagine that I will post one day a short twit (or how you call it?) what is the 
best way to describe a BH4 group in Topas. And Alan has a full right to use it 
in his publicity campaign saying that even Radovan is now using exclusively 
Topas and has abandoned Fox (there will be a new version soon thanks to 
Vincent).

And the last point, which Alan raised immediately at the beginning of the 
discussion: When you create a new discussion forum (or how it's called?) on the 
Facebook dealing with Rietveld, what to do with the great archive existing in 
the mailing list? Have David thought about linking this archive to Facebook?

Radovan


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm


-Message d'origine-
De : Alan Coelho [mailto:alancoe...@bigpond.com] Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 
12:04 À : Radovan Cerny; 'Jonathan WRIGHT'; rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : RE: 
Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Radovan 

Interesting discussion, html may allow graphics but doesn't still mean 
e-mailing large files to everyone.

Jon: the IUCR also has a facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org

Not recognizing the pull/power of facebook, twitter, Instagram etc… is akin to 
IBM not recognizing the power of personal computers, or like thinking that 3D 
printing is a fad or that drones is a toy or that the newspaper are here 
forever.  

It’s easy to agree with the thought that a small community like ours should not 
have many channels but not having pictures/graphics seems archaic. A 12 year 
old I know used a phone to take a 100Mbyte video and posted it on youtube; 
these are the file sizes being thrown about by kids. 

So great to have a mailing list, thanks Alan, but personally I would love to 
see a medium (I dot care what it is) that allows graphics. 

Cheers
Alan


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 6:36 PM
To: Jonathan WRIGHT; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Jon,

There is no problem to have pictures in the email. Just need to use HTML format 
for your email.

But you have raised an important question: "public perceptions". Uni Geneva has 
already everythink: 
http://www.unige.ch/communication/diffuser/mediassociaux.html

I hope we will not start to discuss this question now.

Jan Rohlicek proposes to link email with (a)social networks. Simple (?) and 
constructive idea.


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Jonathan WRIGHT Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 10:16 À : rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : 
Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt the 
value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful. 

It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to "public 
perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay attention to things 
like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign recently with #RestartLHC and 
#13TeV. If you want to, you can read tweets about powder diffraction already:

 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when following 
people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want to read those 
things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes into your inbox.

Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )
On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:
Good Morning
I crea

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Radovan Cerny]

Hi Alan,

I have nothing against the evolution of communication tools, protocols etc. 
Yes, why not to evolve Rietveld mailing list to Rietveld_wiki? Maybe good time 
to change also the name. 

But I think that the (a)social networks are not a good choice. Already because 
all what you post on Facebook may be used by anybody else for example for a 
publicity. 

Imagine that I will post one day a short twit (or how you call it?) what is the 
best way to describe a BH4 group in Topas. And Alan has a full right to use it 
in his publicity campaign saying that even Radovan is now using exclusively 
Topas and has abandoned Fox (there will be a new version soon thanks to 
Vincent).

And the last point, which Alan raised immediately at the beginning of the 
discussion: When you create a new discussion forum (or how it's called?) on the 
Facebook dealing with Rietveld, what to do with the great archive existing in 
the mailing list? Have David thought about linking this archive to Facebook?

Radovan


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm


-Message d'origine-
De : Alan Coelho [mailto:alancoe...@bigpond.com] 
Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 12:04
À : Radovan Cerny; 'Jonathan WRIGHT'; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Radovan 

Interesting discussion, html may allow graphics but doesn't still mean 
e-mailing large files to everyone.

Jon: the IUCR also has a facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org

Not recognizing the pull/power of facebook, twitter, Instagram etc… is akin to 
IBM not recognizing the power of personal computers, or like thinking that 3D 
printing is a fad or that drones is a toy or that the newspaper are here 
forever.  

It’s easy to agree with the thought that a small community like ours should not 
have many channels but not having pictures/graphics seems archaic. A 12 year 
old I know used a phone to take a 100Mbyte video and posted it on youtube; 
these are the file sizes being thrown about by kids. 

So great to have a mailing list, thanks Alan, but personally I would love to 
see a medium (I dot care what it is) that allows graphics. 

Cheers
Alan


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 6:36 PM
To: Jonathan WRIGHT; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Jon,

There is no problem to have pictures in the email. Just need to use HTML format 
for your email.

But you have raised an important question: "public perceptions". Uni Geneva has 
already everythink: 
http://www.unige.ch/communication/diffuser/mediassociaux.html

I hope we will not start to discuss this question now.

Jan Rohlicek proposes to link email with (a)social networks. Simple (?) and 
constructive idea.


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Jonathan WRIGHT Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 10:16 À : rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : 
Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt the 
value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful. 

It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to "public 
perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay attention to things 
like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign recently with #RestartLHC and 
#13TeV. If you want to, you can read tweets about powder diffraction already:

 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when following 
people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want to read those 
things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes into your inbox.

Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )
On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:
Good Morning
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide 


++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subj

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Coelho]

Hi again all

I’m no expert but after some quick googling it seems that wordpress, which 
seems to fall under GNU-GPL, may be what a contender. It talks to facebook and 
has 1000s of forum type plugins. 

Or, how about https://www.dokuwiki.org/wiki:dokuwiki

"DokuWiki is a simple to use and highly versatile Open Source wiki software 
that doesn't require a database. It is loved by users for its clean and 
readable syntax. The ease of maintenance, backup and integration makes it an 
administrator's favorite. Built in access controls and authentication 
connectors make DokuWiki especially useful in the enterprise context and the 
large number of plugins contributed by its vibrant community allow for a broad 
range of use cases"

There are certainly options out there but I guess getting someone to administer 
the site is an obstacle.

Cheers
Alan


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 6:36 PM
To: Jonathan WRIGHT; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Jon,

There is no problem to have pictures in the email. Just need to use HTML format 
for your email.

But you have raised an important question: "public perceptions". Uni Geneva has 
already everythink: 
http://www.unige.ch/communication/diffuser/mediassociaux.html

I hope we will not start to discuss this question now.

Jan Rohlicek proposes to link email with (a)social networks. Simple (?) and 
constructive idea.


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Jonathan WRIGHT
Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 10:16
À : rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt the 
value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful. 

It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to "public 
perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay attention to things 
like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign recently with #RestartLHC and 
#13TeV. If you want to, you can read tweets about powder diffraction already:

 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when following 
people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want to read those 
things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes into your inbox.

Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )
On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:
Good Morning 
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide 


++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Coelho]

Radovan 

Interesting discussion, html may allow graphics but doesn't still mean 
e-mailing large files to everyone.

Jon: the IUCR also has a facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org

Not recognizing the pull/power of facebook, twitter, Instagram etc… is akin to 
IBM not recognizing the power of personal computers, or like thinking that 3D 
printing is a fad or that drones is a toy or that the newspaper are here 
forever.  

It’s easy to agree with the thought that a small community like ours should not 
have many channels but not having pictures/graphics seems archaic. A 12 year 
old I know used a phone to take a 100Mbyte video and posted it on youtube; 
these are the file sizes being thrown about by kids. 

So great to have a mailing list, thanks Alan, but personally I would love to 
see a medium (I dot care what it is) that allows graphics. 

Cheers
Alan


From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 6:36 PM
To: Jonathan WRIGHT; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Jon,

There is no problem to have pictures in the email. Just need to use HTML format 
for your email.

But you have raised an important question: "public perceptions". Uni Geneva has 
already everythink: 
http://www.unige.ch/communication/diffuser/mediassociaux.html

I hope we will not start to discuss this question now.

Jan Rohlicek proposes to link email with (a)social networks. Simple (?) and 
constructive idea.


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Jonathan WRIGHT
Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 10:16
À : rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt the 
value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful. 

It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to "public 
perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay attention to things 
like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign recently with #RestartLHC and 
#13TeV. If you want to, you can read tweets about powder diffraction already:

 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when following 
people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want to read those 
things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes into your inbox.

Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )
On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:
Good Morning 
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide 


++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Davide Levy]

As far I saw, it is possible to link a blog with a facebook page but not a 
maillist

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Monica Dapiaggi
Sent: 09 June, 2015 11:45 AM
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear All,
I think that Jan’s idea may be a good compromise. Facebook has a great 
visibility among the youngsters, and it may give us more ‘appeal’ in general. I 
like the mailing list and how it works, but my feeling is that many of the 
young crystallographers don’t even know what a mailing list is!
I don’t think that cross-posting on the mailing list and on the FB group can be 
done automatically, but I’m not an expert on that (Davide do you know if it can 
be done?).

All the best to everyone of you

Monica



> On 09 Jun 2015, at 10:15 , Jan Rohlicek  wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> is there any possibility to link facebook (or another social platforms) with 
> this email list? E.g. if somebody send email to reitveld list, this will be 
> automatically posted also to facebook and if somebody responds or posts a new 
> question to facebook, it will be posted also to the rietveld list, where all 
> communication will be saved.
> Maybe, this will be solution how to connect "facebookers" with "emailers".
>
> Best Regards,
> Jan
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On 
> Behalf Of Radovan Cerny
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:16 AM
> To: LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO; rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from an old 
> proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death).
>
> Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where to look 
> for an info, you spend too much time before you find it.
> Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and more 
> up-to-date researcher use the email?
>
>
> Radovan Cerny
> Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
> Université de Genève
> 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
> CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
> Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
> radovan.ce...@unige.ch
> URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
>
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De 
> la part de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 
> 08:15 À : rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion 
> Group on Facebook
>
> hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the 
> problem is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
> still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and as 
> someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.
>
>
> Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :
>
>> Dear Luis,
>>
>> I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that 
>> some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are 
>> not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and 
>> progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's 
>> comment.
>>
>> Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a 
>> second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific 
>> information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This 
>> way of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly 
>> resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though 
>> published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
>>
>> A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check 
>> the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered 
>> also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece 
>> of paper.
>>
>> Best,
>> Lubo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early 
>>> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
>>> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the 
>>> Refinement world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non 
>>> technical matter.
>>> The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists 
>>> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them 
>>> to several sources of information without attaching the

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Monica Dapiaggi]

Dear All,
I think that Jan’s idea may be a good compromise. Facebook has a great 
visibility among the youngsters, and it may give us more ‘appeal’ in general. I 
like the mailing list and how it works, but my feeling is that many of the 
young crystallographers don’t even know what a mailing list is!
I don’t think that cross-posting on the mailing list and on the FB group can be 
done automatically, but I’m not an expert on that (Davide do you know if it can 
be done?).

All the best to everyone of you

Monica



> On 09 Jun 2015, at 10:15 , Jan Rohlicek  wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> is there any possibility to link facebook (or another social platforms) with 
> this email list? E.g. if somebody send email to reitveld list, this will be 
> automatically posted also to facebook and if somebody responds or posts a new 
> question to facebook, it will be posted also to the rietveld list, where all 
> communication will be saved.
> Maybe, this will be solution how to connect "facebookers" with "emailers".
>
> Best Regards,
> Jan
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf 
> Of Radovan Cerny
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:16 AM
> To: LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO; rietveld_l@ill.fr
> Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from an old 
> proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death).
>
> Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where to look 
> for an info, you spend too much time before you find it.
> Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and more 
> up-to-date researcher use the email?
>
>
> Radovan Cerny
> Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
> Université de Genève
> 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
> CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
> Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
> radovan.ce...@unige.ch
> URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
>
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part 
> de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 08:15 À : 
> rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>
> hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the 
> problem is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
> still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and as 
> someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.
>
>
> Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :
>
>> Dear Luis,
>>
>> I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that
>> some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are
>> not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and
>> progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's
>> comment.
>>
>> Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a
>> second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific
>> information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way
>> of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly
>> resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though
>> published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
>>
>> A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check
>> the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered
>> also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece
>> of paper.
>>
>> Best,
>> Lubo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early
>>> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
>>> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the Refinement
>>> world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non technical
>>> matter.
>>> The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists
>>> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them
>>> to several sources of information without attaching them to one
>>> single source .
>>>
>>> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be
>>> the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a
>>> positive influence on the size of this community and their access to
>>> the very specific questions and knowle

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Radovan Cerny]

Jon,

There is no problem to have pictures in the email. Just need to use HTML format 
for your email.

But you have raised an important question: "public perceptions". Uni Geneva has 
already everythink: 
http://www.unige.ch/communication/diffuser/mediassociaux.html

I hope we will not start to discuss this question now.

Jan Rohlicek proposes to link email with (a)social networks. Simple (?) and 
constructive idea.


Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm

De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
Jonathan WRIGHT
Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 10:16
À : rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt the 
value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful.

It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to "public 
perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay attention to things 
like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign recently with #RestartLHC and 
#13TeV. If you want to, you can read tweets about powder diffraction already:

 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when following 
people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want to read those 
things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes into your inbox.

Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )

On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:
Good Morning
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide

++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Jonathan WRIGHT]

Thanks Davide for this useful initiative, I have joined. I don't doubt 
the value of the Rietveld list but pictures are also useful.


It was recently bought to my attention that funding may be related to 
"public perceptions" of research and for this reason we should pay 
attention to things like twitter. CERN have made a nice campaign 
recently with #RestartLHC and #13TeV. If you want to, you can read 
tweets about powder diffraction already:


 http://twitter.com/icddicdd/status/607995709426647040

... or find a nice job:

http://twitter.com/JobborseDE/status/603031335234576384

The signal to noise ratio on twitter can be surprisingly good when 
following people like @MikeGlazer1 or @HelliwellJohn. If you don't want 
to read those things then that is fine too, at least none of it comes 
into your inbox.


Cheers,

Jon

( @jonwright76 )


On 08/06/2015 09:24, davide levy wrote:


Good Morning
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to 
speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use 
powder diffraction.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide



++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Jan Rohlicek]

Dear All,

is there any possibility to link facebook (or another social platforms) with 
this email list? E.g. if somebody send email to reitveld list, this will be 
automatically posted also to facebook and if somebody responds or posts a new 
question to facebook, it will be posted also to the rietveld list, where all 
communication will be saved.
Maybe, this will be solution how to connect "facebookers" with "emailers". 

Best Regards,
Jan


-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Radovan Cerny
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:16 AM
To: LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from an old 
proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death).

Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where to look 
for an info, you spend too much time before you find it.
Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and more 
up-to-date researcher use the email?


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto : 
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm


-Message d'origine-
De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 08:15 À : 
rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the problem 
is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and as 
someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.


Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :

> Dear Luis,
>
> I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that 
> some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are 
> not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and 
> progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's 
> comment.
>
> Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a 
> second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific 
> information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way 
> of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly 
> resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though 
> published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
>
> A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check 
> the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered 
> also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece 
> of paper.
>
> Best,
> Lubo
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early 
>> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
>> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the Refinement 
>> world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non technical 
>> matter.
>> The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists 
>> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them 
>> to several sources of information without attaching them to one 
>> single source .
>>
>> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be 
>> the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a 
>> positive influence on the size of this community and their access to 
>> the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually discussed 
>> here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent available 
>> software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no sensible 
>> responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research gate, to 
>> name some, because nobody with the right expertise is there). It does 
>> not have to be a different or parallel discussion group, and it does 
>> not imply that you have to join  or use any new group. it is most 
>> likely to have a positive effect or maybe just null in the worst 
>> scenario.
>>
>> In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny, 
>> when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is proud 
>> to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation.
>> Facebook does not change  the way Science "should" be done but it ma

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Radovan Cerny]

Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from an old 
proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death).

Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where to look 
for an info, you spend too much time before you find it.
Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and more 
up-to-date researcher use the email?


Radovan Cerny  
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Université de Genève
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet  
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone  : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL: http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm


-Message d'origine-
De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part de 
LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO
Envoyé : mardi 9 juin 2015 08:15
À : rietveld_l@ill.fr
Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the problem 
is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and as 
someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.


Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :

> Dear Luis,
>
> I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that 
> some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are 
> not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and 
> progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's 
> comment.
>
> Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a 
> second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific 
> information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way 
> of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly 
> resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though 
> published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
>
> A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check 
> the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered 
> also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece 
> of paper.
>
> Best,
> Lubo
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early 
>> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
>> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the Refinement  
>> world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non technical 
>> matter.
>> The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists 
>> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them 
>> to several sources of information without attaching them to one 
>> single source .
>>
>> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be 
>> the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a 
>> positive influence on the size of this community and their access to 
>> the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually discussed 
>> here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent available 
>> software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no sensible 
>> responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research gate, to 
>> name some, because nobody with the right expertise is there). It does 
>> not have to be a different or parallel discussion group, and it does 
>> not imply that you have to join  or use any new group. it is most 
>> likely to have a positive effect or maybe just null in the worst 
>> scenario.
>>
>> In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny, 
>> when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is proud 
>> to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation. 
>> Facebook does not change  the way Science "should" be done but it may 
>> change the way of communicating .
>>
>> Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose.
>> Best regards
>> Luis
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg :
>>
>>> To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can be 
>>> effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe time 
>>> by reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following". 
>>> The same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this
>>> statement!) networks like researchgate, what also waste the time 
>>> even of uninvolved people by spamming, just for gene

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Ian.Madsen]

Hi All,

I don't mind which forum the Rietveld list is conducted on - I can use most of 
them.

However, the critically important issue (mentioned a little earlier in the 
thread) is that we do not dilute where the requests/information is posted - we 
are not a very large community and cannot really afford to have multiple 
streams of consciousness.

One of the big dangers that I see in going to a social media (evident in 
postings from some of our 'senior citizens') is that the depth of knowledge 
that they have will no longer be available to those who may need it most.

  
Cheers 
  
ooo0ooo 
 Ian Madsen 
 Principal Research Scientist
 CSIRO Mineral Resources Flagship 
 Private Bag 10,  Clayton South 3169 
 Victoria,   AUSTRALIA 
 Phone +61 3 9545 8785 direct 
 +61 3 9545 8500 switch 
 +61 (0) 417 554 935 mobile 
 FAX+61 3 9562 8919 
 Email ian.mad...@csiro.au 
ooo0ooo

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 4:15 PM
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the problem 
is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and as 
someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.


Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :

> Dear Luis,
>
> I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that 
> some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are 
> not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and 
> progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's 
> comment.
>
> Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a 
> second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific 
> information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way 
> of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly 
> resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though 
> published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
>
> A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check 
> the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered 
> also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece 
> of paper.
>
> Best,
> Lubo
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early 
>> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
>> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the Refinement  
>> world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non technical 
>> matter.
>> The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists 
>> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them 
>> to several sources of information without attaching them to one 
>> single source .
>>
>> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be 
>> the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a 
>> positive influence on the size of this community and their access to 
>> the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually discussed 
>> here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent available 
>> software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no sensible 
>> responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research gate, to 
>> name some, because nobody with the right expertise is there). It does 
>> not have to be a different or parallel discussion group, and it does 
>> not imply that you have to join  or use any new group. it is most 
>> likely to have a positive effect or maybe just null in the worst 
>> scenario.
>>
>> In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny, 
>> when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is proud 
>> to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation. 
>> Facebook does not change  the way Science "should" be done but it may 
>> change the way of communicating .
>>
>> Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose.
>> Best regards
>> Luis
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg :
>>
>>> To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can be 
>>> effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably o

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO]

hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the  
problem is the impression we produce in others with our  
self-definitions.
still the more channels people have to reach information , the best,  
and as someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with  
no damage.



Quoting Lubomir Smrcok :


Dear Luis,

I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept  
that some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they  
are not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and  
progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's  
comment.


Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a  
second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific  
information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This  
way of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly  
resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though  
published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.


A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book  
(check the word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is  
offered also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty  
thick piece of paper.


Best,
Lubo




On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:



Dear all,

Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my  
early days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different  
direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the  
Refinement  world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non  
technical matter.
The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists  
among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them  
to several sources of information without attaching them to one  
single source .


A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could  
be the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a  
positive influence on the size of this community and their access  
to the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually  
discussed here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent  
available software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no  
sensible responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research  
gate, to name some, because nobody with the right expertise is  
there). It does not have to be a different or parallel discussion  
group, and it does not imply that you have to join  or use any new  
group. it is most likely to have a positive effect or maybe just  
null in the worst scenario.


In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny,  
when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is  
proud to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience  
innovation. Facebook does not change  the way Science "should" be  
done but it may change the way of communicating .


Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose.
Best regards
Luis



Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg :

To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can  
be effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe  
time by reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and  
"following". The same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this  
statement!) networks like researchgate, what also waste the time  
even of uninvolved people by spamming, just for generating profits  
by the companies.


The central points have already been fixed by Alan:

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all  
your altruistic efforts with the list!

Greetings

Reinhard



Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy:

I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB.
There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box:
insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the  
results. Then they

say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a symmetry group!
Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a larger
group of scientist!
this is my opinion.
Davide

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr  
[mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf

Of Lubomir Smrcok
Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM
To: Alan Hewat
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Alan,

There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social  
networks (they

are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would suggest to consider De
gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.

Although I

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Lubomir Smrcok]

Dear Luis,

I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that some 
people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are not very 
enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and progressive or 
even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's comment.


Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a second-rate 
human being or depleted of any important scientific information when I 
completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way of communication or, 
better, its information contents, strongly resembles that described in 
Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though published in 1932, it has been somehow 
ahead of the times.


A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check the 
word with any good on-line service).  Fortunately, it is offered also for 
Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece of paper.


Best,
Lubo




On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:



Dear all,

Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early days in 
late 90,s,(science , took me in a different direction) I still keep track of 
what is happening in "the Refinement  world" and i would like to add my 
thoughts on this non technical matter.
The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists among them, 
get inform through facebook and similar. That link them to several sources of 
information without attaching them to one single source .


A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be the gate 
to new researchers (students) to this page and have a positive influence on 
the size of this community and their access to the very specific questions 
and knowledge that are usually discussed here. Their alternative can be the 
use of the potent available software to have results without guidance (e.g 
after , no sensible responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research 
gate, to name some, because nobody with the right expertise is there). It 
does not have to be a different or parallel discussion group, and it does not 
imply that you have to join  or use any new group. it is most likely to have 
a positive effect or maybe just null in the worst scenario.


In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny, when 
people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is proud to be a 
"troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation. Facebook does not 
change  the way Science "should" be done but it may change the way of 
communicating .


Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose.
Best regards
Luis



Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg :

To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can be 
effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe time by 
reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following". The same 
holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this statement!) networks like 
researchgate, what also waste the time even of uninvolved people by 
spamming, just for generating profits by the companies.


The central points have already been fixed by Alan:

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all your 
altruistic efforts with the list!

Greetings

Reinhard



Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy:

I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB.
There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box:
insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results. Then 
they

say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a symmetry group!
Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a larger
group of scientist!
this is my opinion.
Davide

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On 
Behalf

Of Lubomir Smrcok
Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM
To: Alan Hewat
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Alan,

There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social networks 
(they

are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would suggest to consider De
gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.

Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not plan to 
be,

I sometimes think of the end of such services like Gopher. Maybe we have
around a generation, who prefers to share instead of to search, think &
write. What a prefect opportunity for commercial companies :-)

Best,
Lubo


On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote:


I can understand that people have different idea

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO]

Dear all,

Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early  
days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different direction) I still  
keep track of what is happening in "the Refinement  world" and i would  
like to add my thoughts on this non technical matter.
 The generation of people called millennials  and young scientists  
among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them to  
several sources of information without attaching them to one single  
source .


A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be  
the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a  
positive influence on the size of this community and their access to  
the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually discussed  
here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent available  
software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no sensible  
responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research gate, to  
name some, because nobody with the right expertise is there). It does  
not have to be a different or parallel discussion group, and it does  
not imply that you have to join  or use any new group. it is most  
likely to have a positive effect or maybe just null in the worst  
scenario.


In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny,  
when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is proud  
to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation.  
Facebook does not change  the way Science "should" be done but it may  
change the way of communicating .


Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose.
Best regards
Luis



Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg :

To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can be  
effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe time  
by reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following".  
The same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this statement!)  
networks like researchgate, what also waste the time even of  
uninvolved people by spamming, just for generating profits by the  
companies.


The central points have already been fixed by Alan:

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all  
your altruistic efforts with the list!

Greetings

Reinhard



Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy:

I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB.
There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box:
insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results. Then they
say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a symmetry group!
Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a larger
group of scientist!
this is my opinion.
Davide

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
Of Lubomir Smrcok
Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM
To: Alan Hewat
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Alan,

There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social networks (they
are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would suggest to consider De
gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.

Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not plan to be,
I sometimes think of the end of such services like Gopher. Maybe we have
around a generation, who prefers to share instead of to search, think &
write. What a prefect opportunity for commercial companies :-)

Best,
Lubo


On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote:


I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal
format for discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old
fashioned". I suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other
social chattering forums. But multiple groups on the same subject
disperses the available information, and it would be good to have some
kind of consensus rather than individual initiatives.
The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining,
and would discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the
same subject.

Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)

On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy  wrote:

  Good Morning
  I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Larry Finger]

I "belong" to Facebook, but I almost never post there. My wife uses one of our 
Linux machines to read it so that she can keep up with the postings of our 
children and grandchildren.As it is very easy to get malware from Facebook, she 
never uses her own computer with Windows 7 as OS.


Anything posted to a powder diffraction group at Facebook will be unknown to me 
unless it is also posted here.


Troglodyte Larry

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++

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Reinhard Kleeberg]

To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can be 
effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe time by 
reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following". The 
same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this statement!) networks 
like researchgate, what also waste the time even of uninvolved people by 
spamming, just for generating profits by the companies.


The central points have already been fixed by Alan:

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all your 
altruistic efforts with the list!

Greetings

Reinhard



Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy:

I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB.
There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box:
insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results. Then they
say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a symmetry group!
Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a larger
group of scientist!
this is my opinion.
Davide

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
Of Lubomir Smrcok
Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM
To: Alan Hewat
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Alan,

There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social networks (they
are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would suggest to consider De
gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.

Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not plan to be,
I sometimes think of the end of such services like Gopher. Maybe we have
around a generation, who prefers to share instead of to search, think &
write. What a prefect opportunity for commercial companies :-)

Best,
Lubo


On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote:


I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal
format for discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old
fashioned". I suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other
social chattering forums. But multiple groups on the same subject
disperses the available information, and it would be good to have some
kind of consensus rather than individual initiatives.
The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining,
and would discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the
same subject.

Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)

On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy  wrote:

   Good Morning
   I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook,
   to speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all
   use powder diffraction.
   https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
   Davide


++
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HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is
on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++





--
__
Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
 +33.476.98.41.68
 http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__





--
TU Bergakademie Freiberg
Dr. R. Kleeberg
Mineralogisches Labor
Brennhausgasse 14
D-09596 Freiberg

Tel.++49 (0) 3731-39-3244
Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129

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++

Re:Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[azurebayer]

Dear all,
What websites are you talking about? Facebook?Twitter? Google? They never, 
never exist! How could we visit the websites that never exist?
Just a joke.
It costs time, money and luck for 'some of us' to visit those 'never exist' 
websites, so I prefer the mailing list and greetings to Alan for your 
maintenance of the list!

S.Z.


--


Song Zhen

Department of Materials Physics and Chemistry

University of Science and Technology Beijing



At 2015-06-08 16:14:03, "Alan Hewat"  wrote:

I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal format for 
discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old fashioned". I 
suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other social chattering forums. 
But multiple groups on the same subject disperses the available information, 
and it would be good to have some kind of consensus rather than individual 
initiatives. 


The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions aren't 
anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' information, 
publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive of discussion that is 
open to all, even those who don't have an account. 


I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining, and would 
discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the same subject.


Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)


On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy  wrote:


Good Morning
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide


++
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Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
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++








--

__

   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE 
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__++
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++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Davide Levy]

I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB.
There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box:
insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results. Then they
say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a symmetry group!
Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a larger
group of scientist! 
this is my opinion. 
Davide 

-Original Message-
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
Of Lubomir Smrcok
Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM
To: Alan Hewat
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Dear Alan,

There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social networks (they
are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would suggest to consider De
gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo cum faciunt idem, non est idem.

Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not plan to be,
I sometimes think of the end of such services like Gopher. Maybe we have
around a generation, who prefers to share instead of to search, think &
write. What a prefect opportunity for commercial companies :-)

Best,
Lubo


On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote:

> I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal 
> format for discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old 
> fashioned". I suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other 
> social chattering forums. But multiple groups on the same subject 
> disperses the available information, and it would be good to have some 
> kind of consensus rather than individual initiatives.
> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions 
> aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' 
> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive 
> of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.
> 
> I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining, 
> and would discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the 
> same subject.
> 
> Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)
> 
> On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy  wrote:
>
>   Good Morning
>   I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook,
>   to speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all
>   use powder diffraction.
>   https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
>   Davide
> 
> 
> ++
> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
>  Send commands to  eg: 
> HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is 
> on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
> ++
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> __
>    Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE 
>  +33.476.98.41.68
>         http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
> __
> 
>

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++

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Lubomir Smrcok]

Dear Alan,

There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social networks 
(they are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would suggest to 
consider De gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo cum faciunt idem, 
non est idem.


Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not plan to 
be, I sometimes think of the end of such services like Gopher. Maybe we 
have around a generation, who prefers to share instead of to search, think 
& write. What a prefect opportunity for commercial companies :-)


Best,
Lubo


On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote:


I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal format for
discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old fashioned". I
suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other social chattering
forums. But multiple groups on the same subject disperses the available
information, and it would be good to have some kind of consensus rather than
individual initiatives. 
The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions aren't
anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' information,
publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive of discussion that
is open to all, even those who don't have an account. 

I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining, and
would discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the same
subject.

Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)

On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy  wrote:

  Good Morning
  I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook,
  to speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all
  use powder diffraction.
  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
  Davide


++
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Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no
body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on
http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++





--
__
   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE 
 +33.476.98.41.68
        http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__

++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
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++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Cline, James Dr.]

Facebook is a commercial operation that is out to mine data from its users.  
I’ll stick with the Rietveld listserv.

Jim


James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523USA
jcl...@nist.gov<mailto:jcl...@nist.gov>
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334

From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of 
Davide Levy
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 7:33 AM
To: 'Alan Hewat'
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

Alan,
it is only another way to discuss on powder diffraction.
Davide

From: alan.he...@gmail.com<mailto:alan.he...@gmail.com> 
[mailto:alan.he...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alan Hewat
Sent: 08 June, 2015 11:14 AM
To: davide levy
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr<mailto:rietveld_l@ill.fr>
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal format for 
discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old fashioned". I 
suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other social chattering forums. 
But multiple groups on the same subject disperses the available information, 
and it would be good to have some kind of consensus rather than individual 
initiatives.

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions aren't 
anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' information, 
publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive of discussion that is 
open to all, even those who don't have an account.

I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining, and would 
discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the same subject.

Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)

On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy 
mailto:davide.lev...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Good Morning
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide

++
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mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>>
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subject with no body text
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++



--
__
   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>> 
+33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
++
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++

RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Davide Levy]

Alan, 
it is only another way to discuss on powder diffraction. 
Davide 

 

From: alan.he...@gmail.com [mailto:alan.he...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alan Hewat
Sent: 08 June, 2015 11:14 AM
To: davide levy
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

 

I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal format for 
discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old fashioned". I 
suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other social chattering forums. 
But multiple groups on the same subject disperses the available information, 
and it would be good to have some kind of consensus rather than individual 
initiatives. 

 

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions aren't 
anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' information, 
publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive of discussion that is 
open to all, even those who don't have an account. 

 

I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining, and would 
discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the same subject.

 

Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)

 

On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy mailto:davide.lev...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Good Morning 
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak about 
powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide 


++
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subject with no body text
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++







 

-- 

__

   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE 

mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> > 
+33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__

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++

Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[Alan Hewat]

I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal format
for discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little "old fashioned".
I suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the other social chattering
forums. But multiple groups on the same subject disperses the available
information, and it would be good to have some kind of consensus rather
than individual initiatives.

The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions aren't
anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users' information,
publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive of discussion that
is open to all, even those who don't have an account.

I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth maintaining, and
would discourage members from posting to multiple groups on the same
subject.

Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)

On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy  wrote:

> Good Morning
> I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak
> about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder
> diffraction.
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
> Davide
>
> ++
> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list  >
> Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body
> text
> The Rietveld_L list archive is on
> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
> ++
>
>
>


-- 
__
*   Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE *
 +33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
__
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++

Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook

[davide levy]

Good Morning 
I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook, to speak
about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc..  open for all use powder
diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide 

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