e we are
>>> holding discussions and gathering feedback from experiments and other
>>> collaborators.
>>>
>>> We are working on it and will make an announcement soon.
>>>
>>> Bonnie King
>>>
>>> __
Thanks Konstantin for your kind words.
We view every as being on the same ship as well. We are all working towards one
common goal, part of the same island and are glad to collaborate with everyone.
Jack
> On May 5, 2021, at 18:13, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 03, 2021 at
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Jack
>>>>
>>>>> On May 3, 2021, at 07:25, Bonnie King wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Konstantin,
>>>>>
>>>>> There hasn't been any official statement. On the Fermilab side we
entific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
> Cc: scientific-linux-users
> Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
>
> For our use, free is definitely a positive, but not a requirement.
>
> We deploy our product's control systems and are really looking for the
On Thu, May 06, 2021 at 01:22:06AM +0100, Mark Rousell wrote:
> On 05/05/2021 23:13, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
> >
> > Things seem to be much quieter and event-less in the BSD and Debian (& co)
> > camps.
>
> I greatly fear that the BSDs are gradually losing the battle to keep up
> with Linux
__
> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
> on behalf of Jack Aboutboul
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 2:39 PM
> To: Dave Dykstra
> Cc: Bonnie King; Konstantin Olchanski; scientific-linux-users
> Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and Cent
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 6:22 PM Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
>
> On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 11:00:00PM +0100, Andrew C Aitchison wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 May 2021, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
> >
> > >- first slide of "distribution landscape" is nonsense,
> > >with everybody stuck with el7 for another 3
On 5/5/21 5:21 PM, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 11:00:00PM +0100, Andrew C Aitchison wrote:
On Tue, 4 May 2021, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
[snip]
(OK, C++20 support in g++ 10.2.1 is "experimental).
And so what?
I can take SL-6 and graft modern versions of all
On 05/05/2021 23:13, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
>
> Things seem to be much quieter and event-less in the BSD and Debian (& co)
> camps.
I greatly fear that the BSDs are gradually losing the battle to keep up
with Linux in terms of newer features and support for certain classes of
hardware. It
On 05/05/2021 23:53, Yasha Karant wrote:
> From the list you reference below, I find
>
> Amazon Web Services
>
> (AWS) is *NOT* a small (market share, startup, etc) for-profit entity.
> Is AWS looking at an alternative to licensing IBM RH EL that AWS can
> use without any license for fee? AWS has
aturday, May 1, 2021 9:27 AM
To: Dave Dykstra
Cc: scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 09:35:02PM +, Dave Dykstra wrote:
Both Fermilab and CERN have stated that they plan to use CentOS 8 stream
for now (or Sci
What you describe -- replacing a distro's utilities by those from other
than the distro -- is done in practice for *SOME* things, as most on
this list do. However, under no condition should this be called a
stable distro, let alone an "enterprise hardened stable" distro, without
the amount of
gt; There hasn't been any official statement. On the Fermilab side we are
> >>> holding discussions and gathering feedback from experiments and other
> >>> collaborators.
> >>>
> >>> We are working on it and will make an announcement soon.
> >>
On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 11:00:00PM +0100, Andrew C Aitchison wrote:
> On Tue, 4 May 2021, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
>
> >- first slide of "distribution landscape" is nonsense,
> >with everybody stuck with el7 for another 3 years and
> >bye, bye, c++14, c++17, c++20.
>
> Is Red Hat Developer
On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 05:54:35PM -0400, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>
> I am a long time Fedora person and now the community manager of AlmaLinux.
>
Hi, Jack - good to hear from AlmaLinux. I wish you and your project best luck
and speedy progress.
I do not think of Alma Linux, Rocky Linux, etc as
On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 10:57:11AM +, Jose Marques wrote:
>
> My view is that Stream is exactly what RHEL say it is, a development
> distribution to which 3rd parties can contribute to RHEL development and from
> which 3rd parties can base their own distributions. It's not for end users,
>
First off, IBM, the big company, has nothing to do with any of Red Hat
development. We (Red Hat) are a completely separate company whose profits
go to IBM. We have a completely separate legal staff, health care,
management, engineers, policies, everything. So, quit saying that we (Red
Hat) get
On Tue, 4 May 2021, Yasha Karant wrote:
I fully concur -- a clear statement of a concern about the source and any
authentication/pay-walls limiting access to that source. I assume that the
official rebuilders other than SL have paid the necessary fees to download
the real, actual, production
You stated:
all sorts of tests that we can't do in
public, and make tweaks and changes that we can't do in public. This is
mainly due to hardware NDA's, and security stuff.
End excerpt.
1. Are these NDA enabled tweaks, changes, and tests that are in the
production releases of IBM RH EL
On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 10:01 AM Yasha Karant wrote:
> If I correctly have read the RH EL9 CentOS announcement below, EL 9
> will be in production before the end of this year, leapfrogging EL 8 as
> it were.
>
I just want to clean up one point, because it seems you mis-understood the
If I understand your (Leon) interpretation of the IBM RH EULA, those who
*START* from the actual, official, IBM RH source used for IBM RH EL, not
that which is released currently as CentOS, violates that EULA. Before
CentOS became part of RH, later IBM RH, ("became part" is a WTO legal
On 5/4/21 3:38 PM, James M. Pulver wrote:
Maybe the AlmaLinux reddit (might also be one for Rocky?
Both Alma and Rocky have fairly active reddits.
On 05.05.21 01:11, Mark Rousell wrote:
On 04/05/2021 23:41, Leon Fauster wrote:
The source are at
ack from experiments and other
> > collaborators.
> >
> > We are working on it and will make an announcement soon.
> >
> > Bonnie King
> >
> >
> > From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
> > on behalf of Konstantin
On 05/05/2021 00:38, Yasha Karant wrote:
> I have not attempted to get a "dev" IBM RH license that supposedly is
> at no cost -- has anyone done so and down a full buildable source
> download?
Just go here to create a free dev account (which allows up to 16 RHEL
instances and, of course, access
I fully concur -- a clear statement of a concern about the source and
any authentication/pay-walls limiting access to that source. I assume
that the official rebuilders other than SL have paid the necessary fees
to download the real, actual, production IBM RH EL buildable source as
referenced
On 04/05/2021 23:41, Leon Fauster wrote:
> The source are at
>
On 05.05.21 00:10, Mark Rousell wrote:
On 04/05/2021 21:42, Yasha Karant wrote:
Your statement at the end indicates that I have missed a source
distribution channel.
Sorry, which statement is that?
Just for the avoidance of doubt, my comment about "Discourse" was a
reference to the
On 04/05/2021 21:42, Yasha Karant wrote:
> Your statement at the end indicates that I have missed a source
> distribution channel.
Sorry, which statement is that?
Just for the avoidance of doubt, my comment about "Discourse" was a
reference to the Discourse software
On Tue, 4 May 2021, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
- first slide of "distribution landscape" is nonsense,
with everybody stuck with el7 for another 3 years and
bye, bye, c++14, c++17, c++20.
Is Red Hat Developer Toolset 10
On 04/05/2021 21:51, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
> Yes and contrary to the pure FUD that has been spread around, the AlmaLinux
> OS Foundation is in fact a 501©6 non-profit and our governing board includes
> a leadership from diverse backgrounds, some from industry and even Simon
> Phipps, former
39 PM
To: Dave Dykstra
Cc: Bonnie King; Konstantin Olchanski; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
Dave,
Thanks for your response. My message was going to everyone on the
list,not necessarily just the decision makers. To me/us it’s important
to involve
On 5/4/21 3:42 PM, Yasha Karant wrote:
You state that there will not be a CentOS 9 and only a CentOS Stream
perpetual alpha or beta channel. I thought that IBM RH would not
directly release buildable production EL source, but would channel it
under a CentOS moniker. CentOS Stream is *NOT*
Yes and contrary to the pure FUD that has been spread around, the AlmaLinux OS
Foundation is in fact a 501©6 non-profit and our governing board includes a
leadership from diverse backgrounds, some from industry and even Simon Phipps,
former president and current standard & policy director at
ific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
Dave,
Thanks for your response. My message was going to everyone on the list, not
necessarily just the decision makers. To me/us it’s important to involve the
whole community not just any specific decision maker
Your statement at the end indicates that I have missed a source
distribution channel. The discourse concerning the ergonomics of a list
such as this versus an eyecandy "Ask Ubuntu" (with character count
limitations on the length of postings) approach is worthwhile, but
perhaps at a later time
On 04/05/2021 20:51, James M. Pulver wrote:
> Honestly, I've seen a lot of the FLOSS community prefer Rocky over Alma, and
> I think it's because Rocky is actually not backed by any company. However, we
> see how that went before, and I just think Rocky as described is ripe for
> CENTOS 2.0 to
On 04/05/2021 18:01, Yasha Karant wrote:
> then one is forced to either Rocky or AlmaLinux, assuming either
> pushes out an EL 9 clone as soon as CentOS or other IBM RH buildable
> source is released.
Well, we know there's not going to be a CentOS 9. There will obviously
be a CentOS Stream 9 but,
onnie King; Konstantin Olchanski; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
Dave,
Thanks for your response. My message was going to everyone on the list, not
necessarily just the decision makers. To me/us it’s important to involve the
whole community not j
Jack,
From what I can tell, SL users is not a developers/internals list as
such -- those also exist. It is an experienced, "sysadmin", porting,
running, and defect-work-around list. Many of the questions that I have
asked and the few that I have answered are similar to what I have posted
to
University
From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
on behalf of Jack Aboutboul
Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 2:39 PM
To: Dave Dykstra
Cc: Bonnie King; Konstantin Olchanski; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
Dave,
Thanks for your re
-users
Subject: Re: [SL-Users] Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
If I correctly have read the IBH RH EL9 CentOS announcement below, EL 9
will be in production before the end of this year, leapfrogging EL 8 as
it were. I wonder how much of this is due to the various issues with EL
ncement soon.
>>>
>>> Bonnie King
>>>
>>>
>>> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
>>> on behalf of Konstantin
>>> Olchanski
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 9:27 AM
>
Thanks Konstantin for all of this great information.
I'll second the recommendation to watch Troy's video.
It makes me feel a bit more comfortable that Alma/Rocky will be able to
deliver the 10 years of updates.
I still have a sour taste for this new "module" packaging scheme. It
seems to
On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 09:14:11PM +, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> Here's a presentation at HEPiX'21 from CERN that's publicly available:
> https://indico.cern.ch/event/995485/contributions/4256466/
Thank you for the link, I was not aware of this presentation.
For further reading, it contains a
If I correctly have read the IBH RH EL9 CentOS announcement below, EL 9
will be in production before the end of this year, leapfrogging EL 8 as
it were. I wonder how much of this is due to the various issues with EL
8? As SL 8 is not happening, SL 9 certainly is not -- forcing one to
choose
On 04.05.21 17:41, Dave Dykstra wrote:
Yasha,
I'll try to answer as I understand things as an observer.
On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 02:51:30PM -0700, Yasha Karant wrote:
...
1. Fermilab and the non-CERN HEP community are not part of the Linux Future
Community analysis as far as I can read, but
Yasha,
I'll try to answer as I understand things as an observer.
On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 02:51:30PM -0700, Yasha Karant wrote:
...
> 1. Fermilab and the non-CERN HEP community are not part of the Linux Future
> Community analysis as far as I can read, but are consulted later after the
>
__
> > From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
> > on behalf of Konstantin
> > Olchanski
> > Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 9:27 AM
> > To: Dave Dykstra
> > Cc: scientific-linux-users
> > Subject: Re: any update on
nux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: [SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS] [SL-Users] Re: any update on CERN Linux
and CentOS-8 situation?
When the Centos 8 news came out, I tried out Centos Stream against our
configuration. Kickstart and Puppet config needed very little change and I was
able to bring up a VM in our lab
When the Centos 8 news came out, I tried out Centos Stream against our
configuration. Kickstart and Puppet config needed very little change and I was
able to bring up a VM in our lab config quite easily.
I have two observations:
1) Updates are sparse, none for ages then a large batch of
I will respond inline here.
> Linux Future Committee
> Membership is internally comprised of representatives of key business units
> of CERN
>
> Future Linux distributions will be RPM based•
AlmaLinux is RPM based and 1:1 compatible with CentOS and will continue to be
with RHEL.
> Efforts
t soon.
>
> Bonnie King
>
>
> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
> on behalf of Konstantin
> Olchanski
> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 9:27 AM
> To: Dave Dykstra
> Cc: scientific-linux-users
> Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situa
Excerpts from the presentation referenced by Dave Dykstra are appended.
There are multiple questions one may raise by reading the presentation;
below are my initial questions.
1. Fermilab and the non-CERN HEP community are not part of the Linux
Future Community analysis as far as I can read,
Here's a presentation at HEPiX'21 from CERN that's publicly available:
https://indico.cern.ch/event/995485/contributions/4256466/
My summary was much more succinct than the presentation and is partly my
own interpretation. The presentation lists a whole bunch of options and
basically says
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:37 AM
To: Bonnie King ; Konstantin Olchanski
Cc: Dave Dykstra ; scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
On Mon, May 03, 2021 at 11:25:22AM +, Bonnie King wrote:
>
> There hasn't been any official sta
-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
on behalf of Konstantin
Olchanski
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 9:27 AM
To: Dave Dykstra
Cc: scientific-linux-users
Subject: Re: any update on CERN Linux and CentOS-8 situation?
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 09:35:02PM +, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> Both Fermi
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 1:35 PM Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
>
> Any news or updates on the status of CERN Linux?
Many sysadmins are... unhappy about CentOS 8 Stream. The idea that
CentOS is no longer a clone but instead the beta testing playground
for RHEL has profoundly upset them. RHEL is
On 2021/05/01 2:35, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
Any news or updates on the status of CERN Linux?
Per https://linux.web.cern.ch/centos8/ CERN users are strongly encouraged
to use CentOS-8 while the same page states that support for CentOS-8 will
end at the end of this year. Update is promised
Given the use of CentOS 8 stream, I am curious about support and
"hardening". Some of the Fermilab and CERN machines are connected to
the outside Internet (WAN), including (as I recall) some of the
connections between CERN and the various EU, USA, etc., HEP
collaborators (although over VPNs
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 09:35:02PM +, Dave Dykstra wrote:
> Both Fermilab and CERN have stated that they plan to use CentOS 8 stream
> for now (or Scientific Linux 7 or CentOS 7) and will evaluate later
> whether or not to switch to one of the clones.
Can you please provide a citation for
Both Fermilab and CERN have stated that they plan to use CentOS 8 stream
for now (or Scientific Linux 7 or CentOS 7) and will evaluate later
whether or not to switch to one of the clones.
Dave
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 10:35:18AM -0700, Konstantin Olchanski wrote:
> Any news or updates on the
Any news or updates on the status of CERN Linux?
Per https://linux.web.cern.ch/centos8/ CERN users are strongly encouraged
to use CentOS-8 while the same page states that support for CentOS-8 will
end at the end of this year. Update is promised "during Q1 2021", today
we are 1/3 into Q2 2021, and
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